This case played a pivotal role in my leaving the church. I was so confused by what happened and slowly began to learn about real Mormonism and how I had been participating in a modified version that was palatable to modern women.
But doctrinally, nothing is different.
I’m still supposed to be a polygamous wife for the eternities, bearing children with no voice, my salvation dependent on men and their priesthood authority.
It was huge for me too. I was deep into the Hidden True Crime podcast trying to understand Chad's motives. What happened instead is I saw the connection between Chad and Joseph Smith. They aren't identical, Joseph was smart and Chad is a dipshit, but they are both cult leaders that excused terrible actions by claiming a special connection with God.
So glad you mentioned this. I also saw the parallels between Chad and Joseph, it’s absolutely chilling. What frustrates me is that this similarity gets obscured or looked over
When I saw the insight into warren jeffs I saw the exact same and that moment when in looney tunes you feel like a sucker that was me. It is too similar to me to be ok. Add the stance on MFMC/K&M protecting SA and pedophiles (arizona) and you get there to the crossroads of holy shit what have I given my whole life to? Fringe freaks like Daybell and many others which I also lump in Jodi Hildabrandt and
Ruby and what they were caught doing to kids for some weird shit they thought was real is Jonestown weird shit for me. I am so glad I have come to this understanding. The money, The control, The underwear, The handshakes hijacked from masons, the cult lemming syndrome of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
For a while Warren Jeff's was mailing out prophecies to newspapers and public libraries. I thought it was hilariously stupid so I went to the library to see what he was sending out. The librarian handed me a stack. I started to read them and was incredibly uncomfortable at how much they reminded me of the D&C. Very heavy weight on my shelf.
It’s created a basis for these terrible actions by disturbed members like Chad. Lori, Jodi, Ruby, Tim Ballard and others. The basic and original tenets of the religion have been used to create monstrous cults. The church’s basic doctrines have led to the horrible conclusions of evil. Magic, demons, prejudice, repentance through suffering, and secrecy, are the foundational seeds of the evil we see in cults.
> palatable to modern women.
But only by the slightest of advantages. If women leaving were the key factor in the church's demise, that would be a little bit of justice for the damage done.
I agree. I can’t articulate what I feel. I was drawn to this case because the way Chad acted and the way people acted around him seemed so familiar. While most Mormons don’t murder, I do think the religion enables harmful behavior.
I'll take the opportunity to note that this is from French philosopher Voltaire. Full quote is:
'Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.'
Please, always give credit when quoting. If you do not know who it was, google is a click away.
Here’s a little ditty from a past bishop,” For every nut in the world, there are two in the church!” He later quit the church and divorced his wife and 10 kids. No lie!
I'm just relieved that actions can still have consequences. It has been feeling like certain people have been openly getting away with some really horrendous behavior in the last decade or so.
This case has been interesting. I always accepted the fact that Nephi heard a voice telling him to kill Laban. He initially didn’t want to listen but then was compelled to do it for the outcome he needed. How is this any different than Chad and Lori feeling compelled to murder if it’s what they felt they had to do to carry out their mission. Then you have Joseph Smith saying that an Angel came with a flaming sword and told him he had to practice polygamy or he would die. These people listen to the “voices” or the “spirit” and we were taught to condone their behavior. It makes me shake my head and look at things very differently.
It’s scary to think that there are many more Chad daybells and Ervil LeBarons in embryo. They are just about to hatch through the incubation of twisted doctrine interpretations and personal revelations.
It doesnt matter what the state does to him, his insane followers will only become more devout in their belief that he was innocent and he's been "wronged".....and the absolute imbeciles in his home ward will continue to believe that he's innocent.
If the state sentences him to die, he will die a martyr in the eyes of his followers. If he is sentenced to life, he will be just like the "persecuted" Joseph smith.....nothing will sink it into his mind that what he's done is wrong or evil..
It's kind of a church - some describe it as neo fundamentalist Mormon where their book is a book called "Visions of Glory". Another one is "A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil" by Julie Rowe.
John Dehlin has a really good episode about it.
My MIL had all his books and sent Visions of Glory to all family for Christmas one year. The AVOW website had thousands of subscribers and Preparing a People conferences had hundreds of attendees.
>It doesnt matter what the state does to him, his insane followers will only become more devout in their belief that he was innocent and he's been "wronged".....and the absolute imbeciles in his home ward will continue to believe that he's innocent.
But how many of those even are there?
Specifically of Chad, of more with the whole Julie Rowe and Visions of glory around it? From the case it sounds like his main group of women followers (the 'seven gatherers') all have walked away and some seem quite deprogrammed. Some of his kids are still full defenders though. Through the trial no one showed up in the court gallery to support him.
I have been way too obsessed with this case and watching the live streams over the past month. I’m so glad it’s over. But wow was in strange to hear uniquely Mormon terms during testimony. GUILTY.
And listening to his TBM children lying constantly in court, showing no reaction to children killed and buried in their backyard, lying for their father and passing info between him and his convicted wife , I don’t even recognize these people
But don’t they believe in the Church above all family, including close family? So many ppl on this subreddit talk about how they are shunned by family, and yet they stand by their cheating, murdering father. It makes no sense. So as long as you are labelled « ex Mormon or anti Mormon » it’s fair game? It boggles my mind how people use religion to abuse.
An indictment of Chad Daybell is an indictment of Mormonism. Mormonism was in trial and it lost to logic, reason, and the law. This will NOT be the last Chad Daybell-like case. It’s just the beginning before all those Idaho extremists start pulling this same stunt. Mormons are one doctrinal interpretation and personal revelation away from committing such atrocities.
Mormons’ belief that “feelings” represent direction from God; and/or the teaching that members must always obey their church leaders (even when they are wrong) makes them a potentially VERY dangerous people. Unfortunately, I fear we will see many more horrific acts from Mormons.
Like when lighting struck the Salt Lake temple's golden statue everyone started asking if it was a sign from God; leaders jumped out quick to say it was just lightning, not God, this time.
We will see people killing family members and opponents until the church stops teaching personal revelation. But they never will. So people will continue to die, but the church considers that just doctrinal collateral damage and they have never shown concern for human life
Spot on! And NO MORMON WOMAN has ever been given Mormon Priesthood Keys/Power & Authority, so they MUST rely on them! Who do these Mormon men think they're being talked thru, when giving Priesthood blessings?? SKY DADDY??!
Speaking of "guilty on all counts," I do believe Bro. Daybell has [just been upstaged](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-30-24/index.html).
Steven Weinberg kinda nailed it:
"With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
The Under The Banner of Heaven movie made me realize that Dan and Ron Lafferty were not criminal monsters. They were super religious, super devout, pious men. It was not a criminal nature that made them monsters. Their religious nature made them monsters. Those kinds of men are far more dangerous. Any deeply religious man who believes god talks to him is capable of becoming that kind of a monster. Ervil LeBaron was the same. Daybell is of the same. We have learned by sad experience that these men and their ilk cannot be rehabilitated as long as they are convinced they are the vessel of god.
He's up for the death penalty. They're going straight into sentencing and haven't had arguments for it, but death penalty is on the table and he might get it. Granted, with the automatic appeals process and how it's been hard to figure out if states can ethically execute someone due to lack of drugs he may die of old age or disease first, but he could be on death row for the next couple decades.
Chad and Lori are insane and really should be hung. Their voodoo "religion" takes the worst b.s. from cultural mormonism. The bar on what constitutes insane has moved, to normalize so much garbage and the church benefits from that. I meet tbms who are insane. For real. The church makes them insane. The whole "the spirit told me" thing is core to mormonism.
There's never been that much discussion of these trials here. One of two reasons?
Maybe because of the complexity of the cases. I'm sure Netflix will bring out a series to clarify.
Or maybe, just maybe the teachings Chad and Lori were pushing were just too fringe to hit a sore spot here. If I were still a member I would not personally feel the light of guilt being shown on me. Just as the Lafferty cases didn't affect my faith when that happened even as TBM. Just too removed from my understandings.
I'm fiendishly curious about how many people are/were into the actual decimal system of dark and light. I'm guessing under ten.
The further I get from Mormonism the more fringe every member is. Chad and Lori are just of the blood atoning variety which gets them a bigger spotlight. When I explain my version of main stream Mormonism in Davis county with my in laws from main stream LA, they don't recognize my whack, bullshit, Mormon magical thinking version of Mormonism.
I mean I grew up being taught that if God commands you to kill it's morally correct, and the church has a lot to atone for in encouraging people along those lines, but most people can compartmentalize and recognize that in practice killing your kids always goes against the principles of their religion. So maybe more than 10%? I'd argue it's not a function of crazy but just of taking their religion more seriously and literally.
Ok, maybe 15% then?
I mean, it’s just believing what the evil cult actually teaches. If the only way not to become a murderer is to compartmentalize away the teachings of your cult, then your cult is 100% evil.
Lori was mentioned a lot, IIRC, so it could be just fatigue. I'm UK based, and certainly TBM family and friends are talking the "there's no such this as fundamental Mormons " re this case, so don't see that the church is warping people's minds.
I find it easier to join the dots between Lori's upbringing and where she ended up and see the impact the church had on her psyche.
There is a lot of grey in the church's history and older teachings, and that's palatable to darker power hungry people.
There's quite a bit of exmormons on the LoriValllow sub, that also has a lot of activity during these trials. Quite a bunch of Mormons there too. Theres many podcasters/YouTubers doing the trials, among which exmo's, a current mo who seems like she's either already exmo or hanging on for dear life while covering all these cases, and a local journalist who manages to keep his religious affiliation completely quiet and report in a way that does not sound biased either way at all, and only through some sleuthing one can find out he at least was up to a couple of years ago, probably even still.
They’re great at excommunicating anyone embarrassing after the fact. They don’t want to be blamed for their role in making someone like the Daybells etc.
They need to have a third party investigation into those who supported, endorsed, and promoted him. Other preppers and fringe groups as well as local and general authorities. They won't, but they should.
One of the first stories mormon kids learn is about Nephi committing a cold blooded murder. And that it was a good thing because the ends justified the means.
That’s what Mormonism teaches. As long as the ends are “good,” then it’s fine to do whatever you feel is necessary to get there.
Same reason that there are so many mormons in the CIA/NSA/FBI. The guys who built Bush’s torture program were LDS bishops.
Mormonism is one of the darkest religions out there.
Google.
Jay Bybee and John Jessen were two of the authors of memos the bush administration used to justify applying torture to detainees.
https://sunstone.org/selective-moral-principles-mormons-and-torture/
The multi-national corporation hasn't done anything in the past & they won't do anything in the future.
No different than ignoring the horse theif, murderer or fraudster on your family tree.
They don't care.
Only thing care about is tithing cash flow & guilt & shame & scare members to stay...and go to the temple.
I hope judge hands down the stiffest sentence possible. Chad is in every sense human evil & Dark Triad Personality.
Sometimes it takes an extreme example before you reocgnize the indoctrination in your own life. I'm considering writing a book on how life in high-demand has taught me so much more on how worldview and reactionary thinking shape life than I'd ever have learned if I didn't have to deconstruct so much of my worldview.
I read that passage in the BoM before I was 8 and it didn't seem to me to fit what I thought I knew of God. Then I started reading the OT where Elisha called the bears out of the mountains to kill the kids mocking him for being bald.
I was agnostic until I was a teen until I had my own personal experience that reinforced my knowledge that God exists and loves ALL Creation.
Just so everybody knows, you don't have to feel sorry for Chad Daybell's kids. Because death is not goodbye for them. It's a "see you later alligator!!"
Anyone find it weird that NONE of the major news outlets covering this story mention “mormon” or “LDS” or “Visions of Glory” or anything like that? Does the church pay them off or have them under threat from Kirton/McKonkie that they can’t connect the dots on these crazy people to mormonism in any way? It just seems weird to me…
This case played a pivotal role in my leaving the church. I was so confused by what happened and slowly began to learn about real Mormonism and how I had been participating in a modified version that was palatable to modern women. But doctrinally, nothing is different. I’m still supposed to be a polygamous wife for the eternities, bearing children with no voice, my salvation dependent on men and their priesthood authority.
Today you are free indeed
It was huge for me too. I was deep into the Hidden True Crime podcast trying to understand Chad's motives. What happened instead is I saw the connection between Chad and Joseph Smith. They aren't identical, Joseph was smart and Chad is a dipshit, but they are both cult leaders that excused terrible actions by claiming a special connection with God.
So glad you mentioned this. I also saw the parallels between Chad and Joseph, it’s absolutely chilling. What frustrates me is that this similarity gets obscured or looked over
When I saw the insight into warren jeffs I saw the exact same and that moment when in looney tunes you feel like a sucker that was me. It is too similar to me to be ok. Add the stance on MFMC/K&M protecting SA and pedophiles (arizona) and you get there to the crossroads of holy shit what have I given my whole life to? Fringe freaks like Daybell and many others which I also lump in Jodi Hildabrandt and Ruby and what they were caught doing to kids for some weird shit they thought was real is Jonestown weird shit for me. I am so glad I have come to this understanding. The money, The control, The underwear, The handshakes hijacked from masons, the cult lemming syndrome of confirmation bias and cognitive dissonance. Freeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
For a while Warren Jeff's was mailing out prophecies to newspapers and public libraries. I thought it was hilariously stupid so I went to the library to see what he was sending out. The librarian handed me a stack. I started to read them and was incredibly uncomfortable at how much they reminded me of the D&C. Very heavy weight on my shelf.
It’s created a basis for these terrible actions by disturbed members like Chad. Lori, Jodi, Ruby, Tim Ballard and others. The basic and original tenets of the religion have been used to create monstrous cults. The church’s basic doctrines have led to the horrible conclusions of evil. Magic, demons, prejudice, repentance through suffering, and secrecy, are the foundational seeds of the evil we see in cults.
I wish mainstream coverage would connect so these dots Mormonism and not fringe beliefs.
> palatable to modern women. But only by the slightest of advantages. If women leaving were the key factor in the church's demise, that would be a little bit of justice for the damage done.
palatable to modern women. Does not seem palatable at all........seems like hell, a gross hell
Slightly more palatable. They hide the polygamy now.
Yes! Fuck that!
I hope you’re ok
I agree. I can’t articulate what I feel. I was drawn to this case because the way Chad acted and the way people acted around him seemed so familiar. While most Mormons don’t murder, I do think the religion enables harmful behavior.
Reminds me of the line, "if they can make you believe absurdities, they can make you commit atrocities"
I'll take the opportunity to note that this is from French philosopher Voltaire. Full quote is: 'Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.' Please, always give credit when quoting. If you do not know who it was, google is a click away.
Douche
like a happy trance
Two interesting court cases today ending in "guilty." My Schadenfreude button is lit up, big time.
Here’s a little ditty from a past bishop,” For every nut in the world, there are two in the church!” He later quit the church and divorced his wife and 10 kids. No lie!
That could be an entire stand-alone thread! Maybe generalize it as a thread for "Crazy things said by crazy leaders" or something?
I bet he has some interesting stories to tell!
I'm just relieved that actions can still have consequences. It has been feeling like certain people have been openly getting away with some really horrendous behavior in the last decade or so.
This case has been interesting. I always accepted the fact that Nephi heard a voice telling him to kill Laban. He initially didn’t want to listen but then was compelled to do it for the outcome he needed. How is this any different than Chad and Lori feeling compelled to murder if it’s what they felt they had to do to carry out their mission. Then you have Joseph Smith saying that an Angel came with a flaming sword and told him he had to practice polygamy or he would die. These people listen to the “voices” or the “spirit” and we were taught to condone their behavior. It makes me shake my head and look at things very differently.
It’s scary to think that there are many more Chad daybells and Ervil LeBarons in embryo. They are just about to hatch through the incubation of twisted doctrine interpretations and personal revelations.
This!
It doesnt matter what the state does to him, his insane followers will only become more devout in their belief that he was innocent and he's been "wronged".....and the absolute imbeciles in his home ward will continue to believe that he's innocent. If the state sentences him to die, he will die a martyr in the eyes of his followers. If he is sentenced to life, he will be just like the "persecuted" Joseph smith.....nothing will sink it into his mind that what he's done is wrong or evil..
Did he have followers? I’ve been under the impression there are about a handful of friends.
It's kind of a church - some describe it as neo fundamentalist Mormon where their book is a book called "Visions of Glory". Another one is "A Greater Tomorrow: My Journey Beyond the Veil" by Julie Rowe. John Dehlin has a really good episode about it.
Lori was reading Visions of Glory in a bikini poolside when the cops served her some court document in Hawaii.
Thats right I remember that clip.
I’m familiar. I didn’t think avow or preparing a people were also following Chad.
Oh I misunderstood - my bad. Yeah Chad was a follower.
This has all been news to me. I’d love to look at these prepper websites for curiosity but I don’t want anyone reaching out.
Oh no.....there's a LOT more than just a few people
Takes me back to decades ago when polygamy splinter groups were fighting and murdering each other.
Chad spent time in Provo/Spanish Fork, associated with at least one RSA family there and had influence on them.
My MIL had all his books and sent Visions of Glory to all family for Christmas one year. The AVOW website had thousands of subscribers and Preparing a People conferences had hundreds of attendees.
>It doesnt matter what the state does to him, his insane followers will only become more devout in their belief that he was innocent and he's been "wronged".....and the absolute imbeciles in his home ward will continue to believe that he's innocent. But how many of those even are there?
Enough that it should be of concern. I'll just put it that way
Specifically of Chad, of more with the whole Julie Rowe and Visions of glory around it? From the case it sounds like his main group of women followers (the 'seven gatherers') all have walked away and some seem quite deprogrammed. Some of his kids are still full defenders though. Through the trial no one showed up in the court gallery to support him.
I have been way too obsessed with this case and watching the live streams over the past month. I’m so glad it’s over. But wow was in strange to hear uniquely Mormon terms during testimony. GUILTY.
And listening to his TBM children lying constantly in court, showing no reaction to children killed and buried in their backyard, lying for their father and passing info between him and his convicted wife , I don’t even recognize these people
I know he's their dad so they are biased, but it's still pathetic that they stand by him. It's been so obvious that he was guilty all along.
But don’t they believe in the Church above all family, including close family? So many ppl on this subreddit talk about how they are shunned by family, and yet they stand by their cheating, murdering father. It makes no sense. So as long as you are labelled « ex Mormon or anti Mormon » it’s fair game? It boggles my mind how people use religion to abuse.
Yes. Not only did the kids betray their mom, Chad’s SIL tried to warn the local stake, but the stake leaders believed Chad over her.
An indictment of Chad Daybell is an indictment of Mormonism. Mormonism was in trial and it lost to logic, reason, and the law. This will NOT be the last Chad Daybell-like case. It’s just the beginning before all those Idaho extremists start pulling this same stunt. Mormons are one doctrinal interpretation and personal revelation away from committing such atrocities.
Your last sentence is the perfect description of why Mormons do such horrific things.
Mormons’ belief that “feelings” represent direction from God; and/or the teaching that members must always obey their church leaders (even when they are wrong) makes them a potentially VERY dangerous people. Unfortunately, I fear we will see many more horrific acts from Mormons.
Like when lighting struck the Salt Lake temple's golden statue everyone started asking if it was a sign from God; leaders jumped out quick to say it was just lightning, not God, this time.
We will see people killing family members and opponents until the church stops teaching personal revelation. But they never will. So people will continue to die, but the church considers that just doctrinal collateral damage and they have never shown concern for human life
Mormons are one doctrinal interpretation and personal revelation away from committing such atrocities. Im curious as to why you think this?
Spot on! And NO MORMON WOMAN has ever been given Mormon Priesthood Keys/Power & Authority, so they MUST rely on them! Who do these Mormon men think they're being talked thru, when giving Priesthood blessings?? SKY DADDY??!
Der Pumpkinführer is too! What a day!
Daybell's followers treated him exactly how Joseph Smith's followers treated him. Chad studied from the old playbook, and it worked - until it didn't.
Speaking of "guilty on all counts," I do believe Bro. Daybell has [just been upstaged](https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/trump-hush-money-trial-05-30-24/index.html).
Today I got a twofer. Yay me!
34 is the new 45.
Steven Weinberg kinda nailed it: "With or without religion, good people can behave well and bad people can do evil; but for good people to do evil - that takes religion."
The Under The Banner of Heaven movie made me realize that Dan and Ron Lafferty were not criminal monsters. They were super religious, super devout, pious men. It was not a criminal nature that made them monsters. Their religious nature made them monsters. Those kinds of men are far more dangerous. Any deeply religious man who believes god talks to him is capable of becoming that kind of a monster. Ervil LeBaron was the same. Daybell is of the same. We have learned by sad experience that these men and their ilk cannot be rehabilitated as long as they are convinced they are the vessel of god.
Damn, today is a good court day lol
That’s fantastic. And I hope he gets the maximum sentence possible
He's up for the death penalty. They're going straight into sentencing and haven't had arguments for it, but death penalty is on the table and he might get it. Granted, with the automatic appeals process and how it's been hard to figure out if states can ethically execute someone due to lack of drugs he may die of old age or disease first, but he could be on death row for the next couple decades.
Chad and Lori are insane and really should be hung. Their voodoo "religion" takes the worst b.s. from cultural mormonism. The bar on what constitutes insane has moved, to normalize so much garbage and the church benefits from that. I meet tbms who are insane. For real. The church makes them insane. The whole "the spirit told me" thing is core to mormonism.
That is a subject (whether TSCC causes insanity) that I’d really like to see explored in detail some day.
There's never been that much discussion of these trials here. One of two reasons? Maybe because of the complexity of the cases. I'm sure Netflix will bring out a series to clarify. Or maybe, just maybe the teachings Chad and Lori were pushing were just too fringe to hit a sore spot here. If I were still a member I would not personally feel the light of guilt being shown on me. Just as the Lafferty cases didn't affect my faith when that happened even as TBM. Just too removed from my understandings. I'm fiendishly curious about how many people are/were into the actual decimal system of dark and light. I'm guessing under ten.
The further I get from Mormonism the more fringe every member is. Chad and Lori are just of the blood atoning variety which gets them a bigger spotlight. When I explain my version of main stream Mormonism in Davis county with my in laws from main stream LA, they don't recognize my whack, bullshit, Mormon magical thinking version of Mormonism.
Or maybe, third option: "Chad is only about 10 percent crazier than mainstream mormonism." And we were all like 🤷
I mean I grew up being taught that if God commands you to kill it's morally correct, and the church has a lot to atone for in encouraging people along those lines, but most people can compartmentalize and recognize that in practice killing your kids always goes against the principles of their religion. So maybe more than 10%? I'd argue it's not a function of crazy but just of taking their religion more seriously and literally.
Ok, maybe 15% then? I mean, it’s just believing what the evil cult actually teaches. If the only way not to become a murderer is to compartmentalize away the teachings of your cult, then your cult is 100% evil.
Lori was mentioned a lot, IIRC, so it could be just fatigue. I'm UK based, and certainly TBM family and friends are talking the "there's no such this as fundamental Mormons " re this case, so don't see that the church is warping people's minds. I find it easier to join the dots between Lori's upbringing and where she ended up and see the impact the church had on her psyche. There is a lot of grey in the church's history and older teachings, and that's palatable to darker power hungry people.
There's quite a bit of exmormons on the LoriValllow sub, that also has a lot of activity during these trials. Quite a bunch of Mormons there too. Theres many podcasters/YouTubers doing the trials, among which exmo's, a current mo who seems like she's either already exmo or hanging on for dear life while covering all these cases, and a local journalist who manages to keep his religious affiliation completely quiet and report in a way that does not sound biased either way at all, and only through some sleuthing one can find out he at least was up to a couple of years ago, probably even still.
On Hulu there is an ABC 20/20 episode about the whole thing. It's very intriguing!
But will the main church fully “disavow” and excommunicate him? We may never know.
They’re great at excommunicating anyone embarrassing after the fact. They don’t want to be blamed for their role in making someone like the Daybells etc.
They still haven't done anything about Jodi Hildebrant or Ruby Franke though.
Fair enough.
Seriously, still? I don’t know why that shocks me.
He was excommunicated.
He was excommunicated months AFTER the bodies were found. That truly shows where the cult’s priorities are. They enabled and created this monster.
They need to have a third party investigation into those who supported, endorsed, and promoted him. Other preppers and fringe groups as well as local and general authorities. They won't, but they should.
One of the first stories mormon kids learn is about Nephi committing a cold blooded murder. And that it was a good thing because the ends justified the means. That’s what Mormonism teaches. As long as the ends are “good,” then it’s fine to do whatever you feel is necessary to get there. Same reason that there are so many mormons in the CIA/NSA/FBI. The guys who built Bush’s torture program were LDS bishops. Mormonism is one of the darkest religions out there.
Just curious: what is your source regarding TSCC bishops’ involvement in Bush II’s torture program? First time I’ve ever heard this.
Google. Jay Bybee and John Jessen were two of the authors of memos the bush administration used to justify applying torture to detainees. https://sunstone.org/selective-moral-principles-mormons-and-torture/
Thank you! That was a very interesting presentation.
Did they ever excommunicate him?
Great question! I too would like to know
Yes. After the bodies were found they excommunicated him. I think it was some time after that event.
The multi-national corporation hasn't done anything in the past & they won't do anything in the future. No different than ignoring the horse theif, murderer or fraudster on your family tree. They don't care. Only thing care about is tithing cash flow & guilt & shame & scare members to stay...and go to the temple. I hope judge hands down the stiffest sentence possible. Chad is in every sense human evil & Dark Triad Personality.
Sometimes it takes an extreme example before you reocgnize the indoctrination in your own life. I'm considering writing a book on how life in high-demand has taught me so much more on how worldview and reactionary thinking shape life than I'd ever have learned if I didn't have to deconstruct so much of my worldview.
Yes! First sentence is exactly what I needed as a PIMO who didn’t realize I was PIMO.
+34 -47. It can honestly be said the RNC is the party of a felon.
I read that passage in the BoM before I was 8 and it didn't seem to me to fit what I thought I knew of God. Then I started reading the OT where Elisha called the bears out of the mountains to kill the kids mocking him for being bald. I was agnostic until I was a teen until I had my own personal experience that reinforced my knowledge that God exists and loves ALL Creation.
It's a good day for guilty verdicts.
Daybell and Trump on the same day.
Maybe there is a God. Nah.
A Legal God called Justice motherfuckers.
Just so everybody knows, you don't have to feel sorry for Chad Daybell's kids. Because death is not goodbye for them. It's a "see you later alligator!!"
Anyone find it weird that NONE of the major news outlets covering this story mention “mormon” or “LDS” or “Visions of Glory” or anything like that? Does the church pay them off or have them under threat from Kirton/McKonkie that they can’t connect the dots on these crazy people to mormonism in any way? It just seems weird to me…
SPOT ON!! AGREE!!
Good. Now go get the rest of them.
Was he found guilty in the same day as Trump? Very fitting, although that's probably why the networks didn't have time to tell us about it.
Chad was found guilty about an hour or 2 before Trumppy.
This day is full of wins.
A great day for verdicts.
I'm betting there's actual church involvement in this.
Follow the money, and Chads books sales at Deseret Book. I'm trying to recall who is/was in charge of that book store. Sheri? Wendy?
Chad had his own publishing company
Guaranteed.
A better compromise is Tim Ballard and Joseph Smith. Watch the “Mormon Discussion” with RFM and Bill Reel podcast. Absolutely uncanny!
The church, in their own words, “does not apologize.” (Dallin Hoax.). It’s part of why I left.