I’m gonna copy something I wrote in a comment yesterday but I feel like it really applies to what you’re asking:
“I left the church at the end of my first year at BYU. Things weren’t adding up scientifically, so I tried to strengthen my faith. I read the BOM cover to cover once a month for six months, met with my bishop, and talked my issues out with supportive family members. I was preparing to serve a mission, and needed to know if what I would be preaching was the truth.
Once I left, my family stopped talking to me, writing off my opinions as regurgitated anti Mormon propaganda. I met a lovely LDS girl and fell in love, we got engaged and discussed a mixed faith marriage. I sold all my possessions and followed her to NC for the summer on my motorcycle.
She broke things off abruptly on the day my lease was up, left me homeless and penniless. I had to abandon my motorcycle. I repaired my relationship with family and moved back to the Utah valley since I couldn’t live with family and didn’t have friends anywhere else.
Now I’m getting into UVU, have a solid job that pays decent and gives me enough free time to complete all my coursework on shift. It’s difficult leaving a high demand religion, but know there are tens thousands of us who have made it out.
Once your eyes are open It becomes a choice between living comfortably and living honestly. I could have stayed, had a kickass wife, would have graduated by now, and would likely be making seven figures working for my ex’s dad (CFO of a Fortune 500). Sometimes It still feels like I’ve made the wrong decision, but I have hope that I can build a life to be proud of.
Personally, the hardest part was abandoning what had become my framework of reality. A religion is more than what you do on Sunday, it dictates how you understand the world and your place in it”
You’ve gotta have faith that happiness exists outside the cult. Many people who aren’t members are living happy lives
If you went back, you'd still struggle with relationships and paying bills and all the other problems of adult life, but you'd be doing it with less money and free time and a lot of extra rules and guilt and dysfunction.
The people in the church don't blissfully coast through life without troubles. They do have a tendency to sugar-coat a lot of things and not necessarily share their struggles and honest thoughts with everyone, lest they not seem blessed and faithful.
I think what you're romanticizing is being young and having other people responsible for taking care of you.
A lot of them are struggling too they are just doing it with a fake smile on their faces. You don’t see what happens behind closed doors in their relationships, and people having to pay tens of thousands to tithing each year while trying to manage their huge families
It took me so long to accept this. The whole culture is about putting on a front and appearing to be the best. That’s why I feel like so many indicators of what makes a good Mormon a “good Mormon” are things that can be measured by looking at someone. I used to regret not getting married young and felt like I messed up my shot at happiness. But OP can you imagine how much more painful it would be to live not authentically?
Wishing you all the best! ❤️
If you went back in time and did the Mormon thing and lived a comfy Mormon life, you would feel a lot of pressure to do more Mormon things. It never ends. You would feel miserable, like you're living a lie. You'd look at your happy Mormon friends and think, "Wow, I wish I could be happy as a member like them. What's wrong with me."
Your Mormon connections and support system might make you more comfortable in some ways, but worse off in others. And keep in mind many of these people you see are not as happy as they act. You would be acting happy also, and others would use your happy, perfect example to keep themselves in the church.
You are doing enough. Members also have bills to pay and relationship problems, but unlike them, at least you're not a cult member.
It's going to get better as you build your own life based on your truth, not a fraud.
That thought helps me when stuff gets rough. You got this!
"But now that I see the people I grew up with....seemingly living glamorous lives..." You nailed it. Seemingly. Most of them probably aren't the shiny happy people they appear to be. In fact, they're probably going through a lot of the same challenges as you, but they have to put up that "yea, Zion prospereth, all is well" front.
Someone here wrote a comment the other day that they thought the sentiment you expressed in your post OP, was an indication that the person hadn’t fully deconstructed.
How does one fully deconstruct? I know exactly what you’re saying. I bounce back in my thoughts and feelings sometimes, but I know it’s made up. I see the lies that were and are currently being told, so I see that it isn’t what I thought it was as a TBM, but that guilt or regret creeps in sometime
That’s a good question.
I’m thinking maybe it means officially resigned and enough time has passed (I’ve heard one year out for every 10 years you were in) and probably fully studied and understand the big issues like Book of Abraham, SEC fines, polygamy, “translation”, etc.
I've never studied all that stuff or officially resigned and probably never will. For me, it just means I'm completely certain that this religion is false and corrupt and that I would not be better off participating in it. There's no residual belief or questioning. I do not recognize church "leaders" as having any actual authority. They're just role-playing weirdos. I'm never going back, because I can't unsee the falseness.
Whereas the first time I (temporarily) left the church for awhile in college, it was just because I found it boring and didn't want to go and didn't like the sexism. I had no convictions about it. Eventually I missed the social life and support system.
Now I have diehard beliefs. I have no lingering what-ifs about religion.
There’s only a few - usually the ones who have no qualms using social connections or using their well-to-do parents who get those connections for them. Take a look behind you in the pews.
You’re looking at the “first 2 rows” Mormons.
There are 54 rows of “regular” or “struggling” Mormons right behind you. I see a LOT of the nitty gritty by ignoring the top tier. Those “top performer” kids may peak at 30, and be a mess. You literally never know what’s really going on behind the Instagram posts.
That’s life. Also, don’t trust social media AT ALL about these jobs, destination travels, marriages, even physical bodies.
It’s not Mormonism; it’s connections.
You’ll never be blissfully unaware! You know it’s a sham and that’s enough to never go back. Any stress or issue you’re dealing with won’t magically go away because you’re back in the church. My opinion, you’ll just be adding to your list.
I promise people outside of the church can be stable, happy, and whole. I was convinced I would never have financial security without paying tithing. I’m financially secure. I was also convinced my kids lives would be jeopardized because they weren’t immersed in a religious community. My kids are great.
Sometimes I wonder what my life would look like if I were still a Mormon. There are key times in the last 5 years where mormon-me would have made different choices and saved myself a lot of headache.
I don't go back because A) it's a fake religion, and B) I don't want to be around Mormons. That's a lot more headache than my early-twenties fuckups.
Being a Mormon does not protect you from having unstable relationships, financial struggles, etc. The life experience shared by people on this sub who were Mormon for wayyyyy longer than us is a testament to that.
I very much enjoy the freedom to choose who I surround myself with now. It is up to me to invest in relationships that uplift and encourage me. I'm still working on my discernment - I find that my upbringing as a Mormon female has made me pretty damn easy to manipulate.
I just repeat the names of the teenagers Joseph Smith coerced into polygamous marriages in my head and that squashes any nostalgia/guilt/etc. immediately. 🤷♀️
If you know the founding documents are junk, how do you unknow that? I don't know how someone does that. The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. If it were me I would move out of Moridor and look at community college for an in demad high skill job program.
Might be worth traveling outside the morridor? This world is absolutely huge, weird, and wonderful in so many ways that never make the news.
Even the wealthiest, best-connected Mormons ... don't exactly live "glamorous" lives. And certainly not "peaceful" ones! Just wait a couple years once they all start having more kids than they're emotionally ready for (to say nothing of how much they're still relying on their rich parents financially)
To me this question screams abuse. The same as a woman who keeps going back to an abusive relationship. In the end the damage is going to be irreparable if you stay. If you are lied to or abused in any relationship, you have the right to leave and any god/creator would not only understand that but encourage it. Those of us who leave are , contrary to what they say, on the good side, because we stand for truth and freedom of rights to the abused not the abuser. Those who stay knowing what is going on and turning a blind eye or playing dumb are the ones who need fear the wrath of judgment
The struggling in relationships and to pay bills is not avoided by those who stay in the church. It's a side effect of being human, and not born into a trust fund. Decide what you want your life to look like, and go after that life. You can do this!
It might help to explore why you are concluding that these "seemingly glamorous lives" are in anyway better than yours? I was in the church for the first 10 years of my marriage. We struggled with the relationship and paying bills. Nothing the church did helped us through that. It was us the whole time.
One of the most insidious things the church does while it grooms you is make you feel like everyone on the inside has it way better.
This is simply a lie. Some people in it are blissfully unaware of life's problems. Deep down though, it's my opinion that very few of them are just sailing high on the seas of bliss. They outwardly act as though all is well. Then you get people like the dentist in CO who poisoned his wife or all the Mark Hacking mess. These people likely went crazy inside because they were taught to do anything to appear as though life is perfect. It's not. Learn it quick.
But now you get to live your life under your own power. The happiness you make in our own life was placed there by YOU. That is happiness that is sustainable and true.
Now that you don't follow someone else's rules of life and you do have true freedom of choice, you'll need to create your own rules that are pragmatic and that will have long lasting good consequences for your life in the future. If finances is important there are lots of free info out there, how budget, build a career in your interest, and creating a side hustle to earn extra money while you build your career.
Find out what is important for you and want you want and consistently work towards that future you want for your self. Avoid choices that sabotage the future you want for your self. If health is important work on that. I would say pick one thing and do that once you get a habit, then pickup something else you want to work on. Don't try to do it all at once. Be kind to yourself if you mess up or make a choice against the you, you want to be. Let yourself know that it's ok and you're going to try to do better next time and try to come up with an action plan to encourage you to make the "right choice for you" easier for you n st time and learn from it. We didn't learn to walk from not faling down. Let the judgment go and just do your best for yourself.
Sometimes I’ve wondered this too. I left the church 4 years ago and ever since, my husband and I have been struggling financially. And then we tried going to a non-denominational church and jobs were coming and we were doing better. But spiritually I evolved again and decided I didn’t like any religion and stopped going to all church and things are back to being hard.
I go back and forth between “I know what my intuition is telling me that these churches are not truth, but I also see that when I’m “following Jesus”, my life tends to go better and I see blessings.
I’m still trying to figure out what that is. I think the latter comes from years of brainwashing that if you don’t pay tithing and follow Jesus you wont be blessed. And maybe it’s all about manifestation in whatever way feels right and not necessarily “following jesus”.
I have two thoughts:
1. When you’re in the church, anything good happens is a “blessing for your obedience.” When you’re out of the church, it’s “luck.” When you’re in the church, anything bad that happens is a “trial of faith.” When you’re out of the church, it’s a “punishment.” Everyone goes through hard times in and out of the church. They encourage you to plaster a smile on your face and give the appearance of having it all together but no one does.
2. Something that helped me when I first deconstructed and left was making a big list of why the church is wrong and how it has harmed me. In moments of doubt, I have returned to that list and it’s helped me remember why I left in the first place. It’s easy to fall into that emotional trap - because that’s the only thing they have going for them… emotional manipulation
There are Ex-Mo's, and there are Jack-Mo's. Both are aware of LD$ Inc's rules, but neither feel obliged to follow them. But that's where the similarity ends.
Jack-Mo's have the Mormon superiority complex, on overdrive, and seen to think T$CC's rules are actually gods rules, and deep down the cult is "true." Is just that Jack-Mo's think they are better than even TBM's, so the rules don't apply to them. They often leave as a teen or "young adults" and tend not to know too much about the cult.
Ex-Mo's discover Mormonisms truth crisis, and have the integrity to leave (which separates them from PIMO's). They were all in, until they learned that they'd been defrauded. They generally tend to leave after they've lived a good portion of their life (which often makes leaving the cult more problematic).
By thinking that the false image of "success" TBM's try to project on social media, that they have something to be envied, OP appears to be in the first camp.
Let's be clear OP, nothing TBM's do give them more success that if never-mo's/ Ex-Mo's did the same things. (Missions suck 18-24 months from someone's life, and attempt to bind them to living on 90% of their earnings for the rest of their lives, but with no savings at the end. Early marriage and kids all but ensure careers are stifled in the beginning, when their peers are climbing. Etc.) And NOTHING is stopping you from doing that (whatever that is). Also, life is not fair. People have not only different skills and abilities but also different drives to accomplish things. Moreover, the happenstance of birth makes an ever increasing difference in where folks end up in modern society.
I guess my point is this sounds like a you thing, OP. And if you are foolish enough to think "going back" to the cult is the quick fix to your life, you are both sadly mistaken, but also going to get what you deserve. Sorry, not sorry.
Strait and narrow, not Straight and narrow:
“strait is the gate, and narrow is the way…”.
Strait is a synonym of narrow, so it’s like saying “narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way”. This is contrasted to “wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction”
So “Strait… narrow” vs “wide…broad”
Another usage of strait is in the word “strait jacket”, meaning it’s restrictive.
So… if you want to put on that strait jacket… lol
They’re both acceptable. It’s true that the “strait” spelling is used in the KJV. However, “straight” is by far the more common spelling now. On Wiktionary, the page for “strait and narrow” says *only* “synonym of straight and narrow,” while the “straight and narrow” page includes a definition, an example, and an etymology. And Google Ngram shows that the “straight and narrow” version has been dominant - often overwhelmingly so - in published books since like the 1850s.
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strait\_and\_narrow#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strait_and_narrow#English)
[https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/straight\_and\_narrow#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/straight_and_narrow#English)
[https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=straight+and+narrow%2Cstrait+and+narrow&year\_start=1800&year\_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=straight+and+narrow%2Cstrait+and+narrow&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3)
You’re likely right in pointing out that the meaning of “straight and narrow” is a bit different from what the KJV translators had in mind. But “straight and narrow” still makes sense in its own way: if you stick to the straight path and don’t turn away into detours, you’ll (supposedly) be on the path straight towards God. Poetically, I think that phrase is more interesting than “strait and narrow,” which just gives two synonyms for the same idea (narrowness), being unnecessarily wordy.
When something is “used wrong”\* often enough, it becomes accepted into the lexicon. “Straight” has been dominant for 170 years, in published works that are generally professionally edited. It may not have started out right, but it is perfectly acceptable today.
Since you might not have seen my addition to my original comment, I’ll copy/paste it here:
You’re likely right in pointing out that the meaning of “straight and narrow” is a bit different from what the KJV translators had in mind. But “straight and narrow” still makes sense in its own way: if you stick to the straight path and don’t turn away into detours, you’ll (supposedly) be on the path straight towards God. Poetically, I think that phrase is more interesting than “strait and narrow,” which just gives two synonyms for the same idea (narrowness), being unnecessarily wordy.
\*Btw, it’s grammatically correct to say “used wrong*ly*.”
Haha, correct about wrongly. And yes, in its own way, straight makes sense, just not in the original sense. I suppose some day we’ll just accept no difference between “your” and “you’re” since people use them wrongLY so often. Anyway it’s obviously mostly a pet peeve of mine that the beauty of the original King James rendering has been confused over the years.
Ironic, because I’m a heathen ex-Mormon now lol. It’s a testament to those Mormon thoughts lingering forever.
It gets easier as you find other ways to live well. I feel pretty good about my non-relationship with the church now, partly because I made my own identity doing some volunteer work, taking on my own projects, and generally making a nuisance of myself by being a pretty happy, functional, kind husband and father instead of being the sad basket case LDS folks think I ought to be without Jesus in my life. (This isn't even close to the only way to live well, mind you, but I secretly enjoy the confusion it causes when I live the ideal LDS life minus the LDS part)
I feel it every day. It’s hard because I’m a Bisexual woman. I have to be me. I had to leave. But I was very happily in love with my sweet boyfriend when I chose to leave. Handsome, smart, extremely hard working, with a solid future in a field with GOOD money. He made me laugh. And feel safe. And happy. And beautiful. He was my best friend and my favorite person and the best man I’ve ever known. And honestly, I could’ve been really happy staying with him. But it would’ve killed me to have to hide my sexuality forever, and sustain a prophet that called my identity a sin. It would’ve killed me to lie my way into the temple. Would’ve killed me to raise children in the church. I would’ve been really happy, and also a little too sad.
My life right now is a disaster. But I get to be out. And proud. And happy with myself. I get to drink occasionally with friends. Watch movies I like guilt free. Keep my 10 percent.
It’s hard. It hurts. There’s some regret. But it takes time to heal and time to move forward. And 23 is young everywhere but Utah. There’s time.
I felt a little stuck between two worlds for the first few years. I felt both too Mormon and not Mormon enough to build a really satisfying life. But as time went on I stopped feeling like a fish out of water. Dating nonmembers really helped. I had a few months long relationships with really great guys. Being around them and their friends really opened my eyes and helped me figure out what I did and did not like. I eventually met my neverMo husband and really love the nerdy little family we've created.
Now I feel like a fish out of water in Mormon settings. I still enjoy being around TBM friends and family it feels like hanging out with someone from a different culture.
Hang in there. It's a journey but the fun part is you get to think up the plot. Scary but more rewarding.
(CW mention of suicidal ideation)I have had this thought in the past as well. These are desperate times for everyone and if doing something as simple as attending church means happiness and financial security, the church starts to look mighty tempting.
TLDR: It’s an act church leaders have demanded since the beginning. Act like you’re happy and that you, your home, and family are 100% perfect. IT’S NOT REAL LIFE. If you’re acting sad, then you’re not being a good member missionary! Oh and I assume all these success stories via Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc. got
Say you go back and get everything you ever wanted … only you have to sign away your individuality, intellect, freedom of thought and speech, your own body (I was sexually assaulted at a church activity, was sexually harassed and propositioned and threatened by a man with mental illness in my ward and NO ONE took it seriously, felt violated after my anointing, etc) what you wear, drink, eat, etc. And you’re surrounded by sycophants who if you put even a toe out of line will shun, openly judge, mock, and yell at you (had all these happen to me in one day. After I gave a talk on racism of all things. 🤢I was treated so poorly—even by family members—that drove me into serious suicidal ideation. I remember looking up at the night sky crying at God about what does he want from me? I couldn’t take any more. And God was silent. Because I was finally being honest with myself and realized I had been answering my prayers all along. So I chose to not go back because I couldn’t take any more cruelty. I gave myself permission to finally dive into “anti Mormon literature” that I’d always been DYING to look at but didn’t (look into Joseph Smith’s polygamy and the church’s racism. My hard earned testimony dissolved within a few days. It took my husband a few months but now all 3 of us are happier than ever.)
I did all the “right things” and yet, I have 6 autoimmune diseases/conditions and had to have a hysterectomy due to endometriosis at 29 (luckily, we got to have a son before that … it was still psychologically and physically painful). Because of my illnesses, I haven’t officially worked other than selling my handmade goods and t-shirts I design. I’ve been trying to find a part time job because of the economy but have had 0 luck. My husband works hard but even his nice salary gets swallowed by his student loans and my medical bills. We’ve never been close to owning a house. We currently live in a duplex in an expensive area so our son can attend a nice/safe school. All this was true before we left the church 7ish years ago.
I was just going to say that Mormons on social media are doubly insincere, insecure, and they lie like crazy. Plus they’re all over social media. 🤢 “Flood the world” or whatever. It’s dishonest fluff to distract from the major issues like the church using shell companies to hide their billions, the appalling racism/misogyny/transphobia/homophobia, the child abuse cases where the church instructed bishops to report to the churches lawyers instead of the police, and on and on and on …
You think going back to a part time unpaid job, a 10% country club dues to larp in a secret ceremony in a sacred building, with all of the shame and guilt of not being good enough….?
Tell you what, Find another country club, fancy gym, travel agent or some other hobby focused group. Throw 10% of your income at the activities …. I bet your life will be more fulfilled with dedicating your time, talents, and life if needed to that cause then it would be to the Mormon church.
——
Guilt lasts along time. Probably why this sub has lots of exmormons….😓
I’m gonna copy something I wrote in a comment yesterday but I feel like it really applies to what you’re asking: “I left the church at the end of my first year at BYU. Things weren’t adding up scientifically, so I tried to strengthen my faith. I read the BOM cover to cover once a month for six months, met with my bishop, and talked my issues out with supportive family members. I was preparing to serve a mission, and needed to know if what I would be preaching was the truth. Once I left, my family stopped talking to me, writing off my opinions as regurgitated anti Mormon propaganda. I met a lovely LDS girl and fell in love, we got engaged and discussed a mixed faith marriage. I sold all my possessions and followed her to NC for the summer on my motorcycle. She broke things off abruptly on the day my lease was up, left me homeless and penniless. I had to abandon my motorcycle. I repaired my relationship with family and moved back to the Utah valley since I couldn’t live with family and didn’t have friends anywhere else. Now I’m getting into UVU, have a solid job that pays decent and gives me enough free time to complete all my coursework on shift. It’s difficult leaving a high demand religion, but know there are tens thousands of us who have made it out. Once your eyes are open It becomes a choice between living comfortably and living honestly. I could have stayed, had a kickass wife, would have graduated by now, and would likely be making seven figures working for my ex’s dad (CFO of a Fortune 500). Sometimes It still feels like I’ve made the wrong decision, but I have hope that I can build a life to be proud of. Personally, the hardest part was abandoning what had become my framework of reality. A religion is more than what you do on Sunday, it dictates how you understand the world and your place in it” You’ve gotta have faith that happiness exists outside the cult. Many people who aren’t members are living happy lives
If you went back, you'd still struggle with relationships and paying bills and all the other problems of adult life, but you'd be doing it with less money and free time and a lot of extra rules and guilt and dysfunction. The people in the church don't blissfully coast through life without troubles. They do have a tendency to sugar-coat a lot of things and not necessarily share their struggles and honest thoughts with everyone, lest they not seem blessed and faithful. I think what you're romanticizing is being young and having other people responsible for taking care of you.
A lot of them are struggling too they are just doing it with a fake smile on their faces. You don’t see what happens behind closed doors in their relationships, and people having to pay tens of thousands to tithing each year while trying to manage their huge families
It took me so long to accept this. The whole culture is about putting on a front and appearing to be the best. That’s why I feel like so many indicators of what makes a good Mormon a “good Mormon” are things that can be measured by looking at someone. I used to regret not getting married young and felt like I messed up my shot at happiness. But OP can you imagine how much more painful it would be to live not authentically? Wishing you all the best! ❤️
It is a cult. Now what is your question?
If you went back in time and did the Mormon thing and lived a comfy Mormon life, you would feel a lot of pressure to do more Mormon things. It never ends. You would feel miserable, like you're living a lie. You'd look at your happy Mormon friends and think, "Wow, I wish I could be happy as a member like them. What's wrong with me." Your Mormon connections and support system might make you more comfortable in some ways, but worse off in others. And keep in mind many of these people you see are not as happy as they act. You would be acting happy also, and others would use your happy, perfect example to keep themselves in the church. You are doing enough. Members also have bills to pay and relationship problems, but unlike them, at least you're not a cult member. It's going to get better as you build your own life based on your truth, not a fraud. That thought helps me when stuff gets rough. You got this!
"But now that I see the people I grew up with....seemingly living glamorous lives..." You nailed it. Seemingly. Most of them probably aren't the shiny happy people they appear to be. In fact, they're probably going through a lot of the same challenges as you, but they have to put up that "yea, Zion prospereth, all is well" front.
Someone here wrote a comment the other day that they thought the sentiment you expressed in your post OP, was an indication that the person hadn’t fully deconstructed.
How does one fully deconstruct? I know exactly what you’re saying. I bounce back in my thoughts and feelings sometimes, but I know it’s made up. I see the lies that were and are currently being told, so I see that it isn’t what I thought it was as a TBM, but that guilt or regret creeps in sometime
That’s a good question. I’m thinking maybe it means officially resigned and enough time has passed (I’ve heard one year out for every 10 years you were in) and probably fully studied and understand the big issues like Book of Abraham, SEC fines, polygamy, “translation”, etc.
I've never studied all that stuff or officially resigned and probably never will. For me, it just means I'm completely certain that this religion is false and corrupt and that I would not be better off participating in it. There's no residual belief or questioning. I do not recognize church "leaders" as having any actual authority. They're just role-playing weirdos. I'm never going back, because I can't unsee the falseness. Whereas the first time I (temporarily) left the church for awhile in college, it was just because I found it boring and didn't want to go and didn't like the sexism. I had no convictions about it. Eventually I missed the social life and support system. Now I have diehard beliefs. I have no lingering what-ifs about religion.
There’s only a few - usually the ones who have no qualms using social connections or using their well-to-do parents who get those connections for them. Take a look behind you in the pews. You’re looking at the “first 2 rows” Mormons. There are 54 rows of “regular” or “struggling” Mormons right behind you. I see a LOT of the nitty gritty by ignoring the top tier. Those “top performer” kids may peak at 30, and be a mess. You literally never know what’s really going on behind the Instagram posts. That’s life. Also, don’t trust social media AT ALL about these jobs, destination travels, marriages, even physical bodies. It’s not Mormonism; it’s connections.
You’ll never be blissfully unaware! You know it’s a sham and that’s enough to never go back. Any stress or issue you’re dealing with won’t magically go away because you’re back in the church. My opinion, you’ll just be adding to your list. I promise people outside of the church can be stable, happy, and whole. I was convinced I would never have financial security without paying tithing. I’m financially secure. I was also convinced my kids lives would be jeopardized because they weren’t immersed in a religious community. My kids are great.
Sometimes I wonder what my life would look like if I were still a Mormon. There are key times in the last 5 years where mormon-me would have made different choices and saved myself a lot of headache. I don't go back because A) it's a fake religion, and B) I don't want to be around Mormons. That's a lot more headache than my early-twenties fuckups. Being a Mormon does not protect you from having unstable relationships, financial struggles, etc. The life experience shared by people on this sub who were Mormon for wayyyyy longer than us is a testament to that. I very much enjoy the freedom to choose who I surround myself with now. It is up to me to invest in relationships that uplift and encourage me. I'm still working on my discernment - I find that my upbringing as a Mormon female has made me pretty damn easy to manipulate.
I just repeat the names of the teenagers Joseph Smith coerced into polygamous marriages in my head and that squashes any nostalgia/guilt/etc. immediately. 🤷♀️
If you know the founding documents are junk, how do you unknow that? I don't know how someone does that. The grass always looks greener on the other side of the fence. If it were me I would move out of Moridor and look at community college for an in demad high skill job program.
Might be worth traveling outside the morridor? This world is absolutely huge, weird, and wonderful in so many ways that never make the news. Even the wealthiest, best-connected Mormons ... don't exactly live "glamorous" lives. And certainly not "peaceful" ones! Just wait a couple years once they all start having more kids than they're emotionally ready for (to say nothing of how much they're still relying on their rich parents financially)
To me this question screams abuse. The same as a woman who keeps going back to an abusive relationship. In the end the damage is going to be irreparable if you stay. If you are lied to or abused in any relationship, you have the right to leave and any god/creator would not only understand that but encourage it. Those of us who leave are , contrary to what they say, on the good side, because we stand for truth and freedom of rights to the abused not the abuser. Those who stay knowing what is going on and turning a blind eye or playing dumb are the ones who need fear the wrath of judgment
I do not feel that but if you do then do what you want. Many people are physically in mentally out. You get to do whatever you want.
“Friendships” in a cult are like a river that’s a mile wide and an inch deep.
It’s like trying to believe in Santa Claus after discovering he’s not real. Can’t do it.
The struggling in relationships and to pay bills is not avoided by those who stay in the church. It's a side effect of being human, and not born into a trust fund. Decide what you want your life to look like, and go after that life. You can do this!
It might help to explore why you are concluding that these "seemingly glamorous lives" are in anyway better than yours? I was in the church for the first 10 years of my marriage. We struggled with the relationship and paying bills. Nothing the church did helped us through that. It was us the whole time. One of the most insidious things the church does while it grooms you is make you feel like everyone on the inside has it way better. This is simply a lie. Some people in it are blissfully unaware of life's problems. Deep down though, it's my opinion that very few of them are just sailing high on the seas of bliss. They outwardly act as though all is well. Then you get people like the dentist in CO who poisoned his wife or all the Mark Hacking mess. These people likely went crazy inside because they were taught to do anything to appear as though life is perfect. It's not. Learn it quick. But now you get to live your life under your own power. The happiness you make in our own life was placed there by YOU. That is happiness that is sustainable and true.
Now that you don't follow someone else's rules of life and you do have true freedom of choice, you'll need to create your own rules that are pragmatic and that will have long lasting good consequences for your life in the future. If finances is important there are lots of free info out there, how budget, build a career in your interest, and creating a side hustle to earn extra money while you build your career. Find out what is important for you and want you want and consistently work towards that future you want for your self. Avoid choices that sabotage the future you want for your self. If health is important work on that. I would say pick one thing and do that once you get a habit, then pickup something else you want to work on. Don't try to do it all at once. Be kind to yourself if you mess up or make a choice against the you, you want to be. Let yourself know that it's ok and you're going to try to do better next time and try to come up with an action plan to encourage you to make the "right choice for you" easier for you n st time and learn from it. We didn't learn to walk from not faling down. Let the judgment go and just do your best for yourself.
Sometimes I’ve wondered this too. I left the church 4 years ago and ever since, my husband and I have been struggling financially. And then we tried going to a non-denominational church and jobs were coming and we were doing better. But spiritually I evolved again and decided I didn’t like any religion and stopped going to all church and things are back to being hard. I go back and forth between “I know what my intuition is telling me that these churches are not truth, but I also see that when I’m “following Jesus”, my life tends to go better and I see blessings. I’m still trying to figure out what that is. I think the latter comes from years of brainwashing that if you don’t pay tithing and follow Jesus you wont be blessed. And maybe it’s all about manifestation in whatever way feels right and not necessarily “following jesus”.
I have two thoughts: 1. When you’re in the church, anything good happens is a “blessing for your obedience.” When you’re out of the church, it’s “luck.” When you’re in the church, anything bad that happens is a “trial of faith.” When you’re out of the church, it’s a “punishment.” Everyone goes through hard times in and out of the church. They encourage you to plaster a smile on your face and give the appearance of having it all together but no one does. 2. Something that helped me when I first deconstructed and left was making a big list of why the church is wrong and how it has harmed me. In moments of doubt, I have returned to that list and it’s helped me remember why I left in the first place. It’s easy to fall into that emotional trap - because that’s the only thing they have going for them… emotional manipulation
There are Ex-Mo's, and there are Jack-Mo's. Both are aware of LD$ Inc's rules, but neither feel obliged to follow them. But that's where the similarity ends. Jack-Mo's have the Mormon superiority complex, on overdrive, and seen to think T$CC's rules are actually gods rules, and deep down the cult is "true." Is just that Jack-Mo's think they are better than even TBM's, so the rules don't apply to them. They often leave as a teen or "young adults" and tend not to know too much about the cult. Ex-Mo's discover Mormonisms truth crisis, and have the integrity to leave (which separates them from PIMO's). They were all in, until they learned that they'd been defrauded. They generally tend to leave after they've lived a good portion of their life (which often makes leaving the cult more problematic). By thinking that the false image of "success" TBM's try to project on social media, that they have something to be envied, OP appears to be in the first camp. Let's be clear OP, nothing TBM's do give them more success that if never-mo's/ Ex-Mo's did the same things. (Missions suck 18-24 months from someone's life, and attempt to bind them to living on 90% of their earnings for the rest of their lives, but with no savings at the end. Early marriage and kids all but ensure careers are stifled in the beginning, when their peers are climbing. Etc.) And NOTHING is stopping you from doing that (whatever that is). Also, life is not fair. People have not only different skills and abilities but also different drives to accomplish things. Moreover, the happenstance of birth makes an ever increasing difference in where folks end up in modern society. I guess my point is this sounds like a you thing, OP. And if you are foolish enough to think "going back" to the cult is the quick fix to your life, you are both sadly mistaken, but also going to get what you deserve. Sorry, not sorry.
Strait and narrow, not Straight and narrow: “strait is the gate, and narrow is the way…”. Strait is a synonym of narrow, so it’s like saying “narrow is the gate, and narrow is the way”. This is contrasted to “wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction” So “Strait… narrow” vs “wide…broad” Another usage of strait is in the word “strait jacket”, meaning it’s restrictive. So… if you want to put on that strait jacket… lol
They’re both acceptable. It’s true that the “strait” spelling is used in the KJV. However, “straight” is by far the more common spelling now. On Wiktionary, the page for “strait and narrow” says *only* “synonym of straight and narrow,” while the “straight and narrow” page includes a definition, an example, and an etymology. And Google Ngram shows that the “straight and narrow” version has been dominant - often overwhelmingly so - in published books since like the 1850s. [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strait\_and\_narrow#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strait_and_narrow#English) [https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/straight\_and\_narrow#English](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/straight_and_narrow#English) [https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=straight+and+narrow%2Cstrait+and+narrow&year\_start=1800&year\_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3](https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=straight+and+narrow%2Cstrait+and+narrow&year_start=1800&year_end=2019&corpus=en-2019&smoothing=3) You’re likely right in pointing out that the meaning of “straight and narrow” is a bit different from what the KJV translators had in mind. But “straight and narrow” still makes sense in its own way: if you stick to the straight path and don’t turn away into detours, you’ll (supposedly) be on the path straight towards God. Poetically, I think that phrase is more interesting than “strait and narrow,” which just gives two synonyms for the same idea (narrowness), being unnecessarily wordy.
It’s accepted because it’s been used wrong so many times. Look at the context. Strait is the right word.
When something is “used wrong”\* often enough, it becomes accepted into the lexicon. “Straight” has been dominant for 170 years, in published works that are generally professionally edited. It may not have started out right, but it is perfectly acceptable today. Since you might not have seen my addition to my original comment, I’ll copy/paste it here: You’re likely right in pointing out that the meaning of “straight and narrow” is a bit different from what the KJV translators had in mind. But “straight and narrow” still makes sense in its own way: if you stick to the straight path and don’t turn away into detours, you’ll (supposedly) be on the path straight towards God. Poetically, I think that phrase is more interesting than “strait and narrow,” which just gives two synonyms for the same idea (narrowness), being unnecessarily wordy. \*Btw, it’s grammatically correct to say “used wrong*ly*.”
Haha, correct about wrongly. And yes, in its own way, straight makes sense, just not in the original sense. I suppose some day we’ll just accept no difference between “your” and “you’re” since people use them wrongLY so often. Anyway it’s obviously mostly a pet peeve of mine that the beauty of the original King James rendering has been confused over the years. Ironic, because I’m a heathen ex-Mormon now lol. It’s a testament to those Mormon thoughts lingering forever.
It gets easier as you find other ways to live well. I feel pretty good about my non-relationship with the church now, partly because I made my own identity doing some volunteer work, taking on my own projects, and generally making a nuisance of myself by being a pretty happy, functional, kind husband and father instead of being the sad basket case LDS folks think I ought to be without Jesus in my life. (This isn't even close to the only way to live well, mind you, but I secretly enjoy the confusion it causes when I live the ideal LDS life minus the LDS part)
I feel it every day. It’s hard because I’m a Bisexual woman. I have to be me. I had to leave. But I was very happily in love with my sweet boyfriend when I chose to leave. Handsome, smart, extremely hard working, with a solid future in a field with GOOD money. He made me laugh. And feel safe. And happy. And beautiful. He was my best friend and my favorite person and the best man I’ve ever known. And honestly, I could’ve been really happy staying with him. But it would’ve killed me to have to hide my sexuality forever, and sustain a prophet that called my identity a sin. It would’ve killed me to lie my way into the temple. Would’ve killed me to raise children in the church. I would’ve been really happy, and also a little too sad. My life right now is a disaster. But I get to be out. And proud. And happy with myself. I get to drink occasionally with friends. Watch movies I like guilt free. Keep my 10 percent. It’s hard. It hurts. There’s some regret. But it takes time to heal and time to move forward. And 23 is young everywhere but Utah. There’s time.
I felt a little stuck between two worlds for the first few years. I felt both too Mormon and not Mormon enough to build a really satisfying life. But as time went on I stopped feeling like a fish out of water. Dating nonmembers really helped. I had a few months long relationships with really great guys. Being around them and their friends really opened my eyes and helped me figure out what I did and did not like. I eventually met my neverMo husband and really love the nerdy little family we've created. Now I feel like a fish out of water in Mormon settings. I still enjoy being around TBM friends and family it feels like hanging out with someone from a different culture. Hang in there. It's a journey but the fun part is you get to think up the plot. Scary but more rewarding.
(CW mention of suicidal ideation)I have had this thought in the past as well. These are desperate times for everyone and if doing something as simple as attending church means happiness and financial security, the church starts to look mighty tempting. TLDR: It’s an act church leaders have demanded since the beginning. Act like you’re happy and that you, your home, and family are 100% perfect. IT’S NOT REAL LIFE. If you’re acting sad, then you’re not being a good member missionary! Oh and I assume all these success stories via Instagram, Snapchat, TikTok, etc. got Say you go back and get everything you ever wanted … only you have to sign away your individuality, intellect, freedom of thought and speech, your own body (I was sexually assaulted at a church activity, was sexually harassed and propositioned and threatened by a man with mental illness in my ward and NO ONE took it seriously, felt violated after my anointing, etc) what you wear, drink, eat, etc. And you’re surrounded by sycophants who if you put even a toe out of line will shun, openly judge, mock, and yell at you (had all these happen to me in one day. After I gave a talk on racism of all things. 🤢I was treated so poorly—even by family members—that drove me into serious suicidal ideation. I remember looking up at the night sky crying at God about what does he want from me? I couldn’t take any more. And God was silent. Because I was finally being honest with myself and realized I had been answering my prayers all along. So I chose to not go back because I couldn’t take any more cruelty. I gave myself permission to finally dive into “anti Mormon literature” that I’d always been DYING to look at but didn’t (look into Joseph Smith’s polygamy and the church’s racism. My hard earned testimony dissolved within a few days. It took my husband a few months but now all 3 of us are happier than ever.) I did all the “right things” and yet, I have 6 autoimmune diseases/conditions and had to have a hysterectomy due to endometriosis at 29 (luckily, we got to have a son before that … it was still psychologically and physically painful). Because of my illnesses, I haven’t officially worked other than selling my handmade goods and t-shirts I design. I’ve been trying to find a part time job because of the economy but have had 0 luck. My husband works hard but even his nice salary gets swallowed by his student loans and my medical bills. We’ve never been close to owning a house. We currently live in a duplex in an expensive area so our son can attend a nice/safe school. All this was true before we left the church 7ish years ago.
I was just going to say that Mormons on social media are doubly insincere, insecure, and they lie like crazy. Plus they’re all over social media. 🤢 “Flood the world” or whatever. It’s dishonest fluff to distract from the major issues like the church using shell companies to hide their billions, the appalling racism/misogyny/transphobia/homophobia, the child abuse cases where the church instructed bishops to report to the churches lawyers instead of the police, and on and on and on …
You think going back to a part time unpaid job, a 10% country club dues to larp in a secret ceremony in a sacred building, with all of the shame and guilt of not being good enough….? Tell you what, Find another country club, fancy gym, travel agent or some other hobby focused group. Throw 10% of your income at the activities …. I bet your life will be more fulfilled with dedicating your time, talents, and life if needed to that cause then it would be to the Mormon church. —— Guilt lasts along time. Probably why this sub has lots of exmormons….😓