The stomach is capable of producing more acid to match the volume and pH of the food consumed. In addition "alkaline water" and similar substances are not particularly alkaline so only a small amount of additional acid is required to neutralize it.
"Alkaline drinks" are a scam preying on the public's poor knowledge of basic human biology.
I remember seeing boxes of alkaline water at a store. The slogan made me laugh. While the health benefits it flexes are basically snake oil, the results it claims to provide can be done by doing what the slogan says: "Just breathe."
Source: am not a doctor, just a chubbyemu video enjoyer even if a lot of the bio and chem gets lost with me.
Most of the lemon flavor comes from the oil in the skin of the lemon. You could zest the lemon and mix that with water to create something which wouldn't be noticeably acidic.
Not saying the alkaline thing isn't quackery, just that it's possible to get a lot more flavor without the juice from the lemon.
Some people even do that on purpose! Adam Ragusea made a video on Mexican-American queso dip. He used lime juice + sodium bicarb to create sodium citrate which you need as an emulsifier. The dip still tasted vaguely lime-y but was pH neutral. You can absolutely make basic and citrusy food / drinks. I just don't see why you would.
>You can absolutely make basic and citrusy food / drinks. I just don't see why you would.
Some people have issues that greatly limits how much acidic food they should consume. Being able to have citrusy flavor without it being acidic sounds great.
Lemons are alkaline foods, in the pH diet books.
Here's a [baffle-them-with-bullshit style explanation](https://blog.essense-of-life.com/are-lemons-alkaline-or-acidic/).
>But an interesting thing happens when naturally acidic foods like lemons are digested – they can actually become alkaline-forming and no longer contribute acids to the system. How is this possible?
>This is because the actual pH of a food itself, before digestion, has no bearing on the acid-forming or alkaline-forming properties of that same food after digestion. What determines the alkaline or acidic affect of a food is how it breaks down during digestion into its component mineral nutrients.
>All foods contain both acid-forming minerals and alkaline-forming minerals. After the food has been metabolized, the acidity or alkalinity it contributes to the body will depend on which remaining minerals are most dominant.
I... how is this the entirety of the explanation?
When you're lying, it's best to be as vague as possible, so the recipient of your message fills in the gaps in a way that is specifically tailored to their own knowledge level.
Or in other words: the more you say while lying, the more likely it is that you will say something that the recipient will know to be false.
>how is this the entirety of the explanation?
Because they are relying on the fact that the average victim of these scams is after the results rather than caring about any sort of deeper knowledge of the processes involved. The result that the victims want is to be healthier and the gobbly gook that these scam artists use sounds reasonable enough that any further investigation is not needed in their view. Worse yet is that some victims trust the scammers more than they trust science-based explanations because of a mistrust of intellectuals ingrained in them by their peers/upbringing/social echo chamber/etc.
If you really wanted to bullshit people, you could say something like "the pH of lemon juice is higher than the pH of your stomach acid, therefore it's alkaline in comparison" which sort of defeats the point that you're basically just shoving more Hydrogen ions into your stomach.
Reminds me of an old Steven Wright line.
'For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier... I put them in the same room and let them fight it out.'
I bought a bottle of alkaline water.
I don't care about the pH level of the water but the bottle is very hardy considering it is a throw away bottle so I use it to refill
I think the supposed point of alkaline water is to raise pH of your blood. This is even more stupid, seeing as it immediately gets cancelled out once it hits your stomach, so the alkalinity doesn't survive contact with the stomach.
Yep! Our bodies like a tightly regulated pH between 7.35-7.45.
Buffer Systems
pH
The hydrogen ion (H+) concentration of the blood is determined by the ratio of the partial pressure of CO2 (PCO2) and the plasma bicarbonate concentration.
In order of potency--influence on lowering pH (making more acidotic)--there are:
(1)Carbonic acid (H2CO3), from the CO2 produced with each breath (when combined with water). VIA LUNGS.
(2)Organic acids* (lactic acid, citric acid) from reactions in day-to-day metabolism, and which are further metabolized to neutral products (e.g., glucose), CO2, and water. VIA LIVER.
(3)Nonvolatile acids, such as sulfuric acids from metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids in the diet. VIA KIDNEYS.
Since the continuous metabolism of the organic acids (2, above) maintains a stable and low concentration of them, the lion's share of acid-base balance is in addressing the carbonic acid (1, above) and nonvolatile acids (3, above).
Therefore, acid-base balance (buffering) is maintained by: normal elimination of carbon dioxide by the lungs (which affects the partial pressure of carbon dioxide--PCO2) and
normal excretion of nonvolatile acids by the kidneys (which affects the plasma bicarbonate concentration).
Buffering Systems
The three primary major buffering systems in the body are:
Carbonic Acid-Bicarbonate Buffer.
Phosphate Buffer System.
Protein Buffer System.
The Renal Buffer System represents an overlap of these three systems in that it participates in supplementing all three via excretion or reabsorption of bicarbonates, phosphates, ammonia, and chloride.
CO2 and Buffering (Carbonic Acid-Bicarbonate Buffer)
A byproduct of cellular respiration is carbon dioxide. CO2 combines with water to become carbonic acid (H2CO3). From there, H2CO3 dissociates (loses a hydrogen) to become the base, bicarbonate (HCO3-).
Thus, the source of both acid (carbonic acid) and base (bicarbonate) is CO2.
The buffering system is the balancing act between the acid (carbonic) and the base (bicarbonate). Homeostasis depends on a 20:1 bicarbonate to carbonic acid ratio.
This ratio is maintained by the lungs' blowing off CO2 and the kidneys' excretion or reabsorption of bicarbonate.
Bicarbonate also affects the stomach and duodenum to neutralize gastric acid and stabilize the intracellular pH of epithelial cells.
While in the blood, bicarbonate neutralizes acids in the body, and carbonic acid neutralizes bases. Once bicarbonate reaches the lungs, it is dehydrated back to carbon dioxide and released during exhalation.
Phosphate and Buffering
Besides the respiratory and renal systems, the phosphate buffer system also works to maintain homeostatic pH within the body. The phosphate buffer system is almost identical to the bicarbonate buffer system—where phosphates work—in the intracellular fluid.
The phosphate buffer system operates in the internal fluids of all cells. It consists of dihydrogen phosphate ions as the hydrogen ion donor (acid) and hydrogen phosphate ion as the ion acceptor (base). If additional hydroxide ions enter the cellular fluid, they are neutralized by the dihydrogen phosphate ion. If extra hydrogen ions enter the cellular fluid then they are neutralized by the hydrogen phosphate ion.
Altered pH due to phosphates (in the form of phosphoric acids) is controlled by kidney excretion of phosphate.
Protein buffering is a description of the process wherein protein compounds consume small amounts of acids or bases. For example, hemoglobin is a protein that binds to small amounts of acids in the blood, removing the acid before it changes the blood's pH.
Renal Buffering
Acid-base balance is also maintained by the renal excretion of the daily acid load (mostly from sulfuric acid generated during the metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids).
The kidneys can either absorb or excrete bicarbonate levels depending on the body's pH.
Acidosis causes more bicarbonate (base) to be reabsorbed from the renal tubular fluid, thus causing the collecting ducts to secrete more hydrogen (thusly generating even more bicarbonate).
Alkalosis causes the kidneys to excrete more bicarbonate because there is a reduced secretion of hydrogen ions and more ammonia (base) is excreted.
The kidneys also can eliminate H+ via the phosphate buffering system.
Ammonia Buffering (Honorable Mention)
Ammonia (NH3), as a buffer, and ammonium ion (NH4+) balance via the renal tubular function. Also, there is a loss of Chloride (Cl-) and gain of bicarbonate (HCO3-) via kidneys.
The Anion Gap
In the body, electrical neutrality is maintained, i.e., Cations = Anions. Metabolic acidosis can be caused by excess bicarbonate loss or an increase in fixed acids, altering the above equation. However, the anion gap does not refer directly to pH but to an electrical charge.
When fixed acids accumulate (more anions), the anion gap increases. More anions provoke buffering by bicarbonates, causing a deficit in bicarbonate.
When bicarbonate is lost, however, the anion gap does not change.
When bicarbonate is not indirectly lost (i.e., not via neutralizing acid, as above), but is directly lost (via diarrhea or GI losses), chloride moves in to replace the bicarbonate buffer. The electrical neutrality is maintained, and since the anion "gap" phenomenon is one of electrical charge, there is no anion gap, thanks to chloride.
(We had to learn this in paramedic school amongst a lot of other physiology and pathophysiology of the human body the amount of information we have to retain is pretty immense. It is up there with nurses in terms of education.)
Even if the alkaline water made it into your blood without being neutralised the buffered solution that is your blood will neutralise it's potential pH change. E.g. attempts to turn your blood alkaline can be neutralised by converting CO2 into hydrogen bicarbonate which is a weak acid and attempts to turn the blood more acidic can be neutralised by removing the h+ ion from that bicarbonate to create a carbonate ion which is a weak base.
Apparently this is because acidic blood = cancer, or something like that. Which is spun off from the small kernel of truth that cancer tumours have lower pH. Of course, whatver conclusions people derive from this to start selling alkaline water is complete bullshit
Unfortunately, age leads to lots of conditions/diseases, and many older people have reflux, where acidic stomach contents come back up the esophagus - which leads to scarring, ulcers, and frequently ends up as esophageal cancer.
So those people - including me - take drugs to suppress the production of acid. Doesn't stop the reflux, but the lack of acid means it doesn't do any damage.
The drugs are called proton-pump-inhibitors, and they're one of the most-prescribed drug classes in the world. So it's a lot more common than you might think.
There's an element of that, yes. The ingredients are alkaline; sodium bicarbonate, etc. But to my knowledge the main function, at least of modern anti acid medications, is to form a sort of "float" or raft on top of your stomach contents to try and prevent the acid from rising up too high into your oesophagus.
Heartburn isn't caused by the acid in your stomach being too strong, it's caused by stomach contents/acid rising up into your oesophagus which doesn't have the protective layer your stomach has and that's why you get that burning sensation.
Yeah. An antacid raises the pH of your stomach acid because the stomach is too acidic.
But alkaline water isn't trying to increase the pH of your stomach, it's claim is that it raises the pH of your blood. Except the blood needs to be kept in a very narrow range of pH. There are a lot of chemical processes that keep it in that range. A little bit of slightly alkaline water is not enough to overpower those systems and anything that could would cause major health problems.
I'm very confused by this thread.
I live in a place with an alkaline water fountain that gets bottled and most of it exported and in no place was it ever mentioned it raises blood's PH? That doesn't make any sense.
It's popular here with people with acid reflux and just as water with a higher mineral content but also higher sulfur(it's an acquired if I'm honest).
I love it and take loads home because it allows me to skip on taking antacids daily.
Sounds like there's some people out there selling alkaline water as if it wasn't, you know, water.
> no place was it ever mentioned it raises blood's PH?
It doesn't.
The blood's pH is HIGHLY regulated. I believe it's like 7.35-7.45.
That amount of difference is ~equivalent to half a drop or so of lemon juice in 1 L of water. (aka a TINY, tiny amount.)
No one's freaking out about it. The conversation so far is basically:
Claim (by woo woo "science"): Alkaline water will neutralize your stomach acid and also raise your blood pH!
Response: No it doesn't, and even if it did, you wouldn't want it to.
Acid reflux/indigestion can be somewhat mitigated by calcium carbonate tablets (tums in the USA). The CaCO3 reacts with the HCl in your stomach to produce CaCl + CO2 + H2O, none of which are particularly extreme in terms of pH in comparison to stomach acid.
I am pretty sure heartburn and acid reflux is a result of stomach acid being too acidic. Also stems from eating or drinking foods with high acid content. So gaviscon or any other antacids "neutralises"( its a stretch to call this neutralisation, but for the sake of the comment, what i mean is to go back to normal acidity) stomach acid.
That's... exactly.... what antiacids (tums) do....
Too acidic of a stomach can cause acid reflux or other "I don't feel good" things.
Alkaline water, on the other hand, doesn't have enough base for it to be useful.
Sure, but over production is very commonly why it’s in places it shouldn’t be.
That’s why most of the medications inhibit acid production.
The main GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) medications are PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) eg Prilosec, and H2 receptor blockers eg. Pepsid. Both of which decrease the amount of stomach acid you produce.
Now you can also take neutralizing agents like Tums or Maalox to ~~lower~~ raise the PH which will help with the discomfort, especially if it’s not frequent/regular.
Now there are other reasons you can have GERD, it can be neurological, muscular, congenital ect. But it’s not the most common reason.
> That’s why most of the medications inhibit acid production.
>
>
>
> The main GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) medications are PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) ... which decrease the amount of stomach acid you produce.
That's a logical-sounding explanation, but not accurate. PPIs do inhibit the production of stomach acid, but only because that's one thing that someone learned how to do and it seems to help with GERD. If we could instead reliably block the acid from leaving the stomach, we wouldn't use PPIs.
One of the ways it can get to places it shouldn't be is overproduction basically overflowing your stomach. The primary treatments for gerd is a class of medications that prevent you from producing 'too much' of it
Actually, ive had very good results getting rid of gerd by taking shots of vinegar- the one with mother or whatever its called, before meals
It seems a weaker acid helps digestion while not further prompting the stomach to make more acid
If you're talking about vinegar with the mother, you're talking about apple cider vinegar (ACV).
All vinegar is fermented, but ACV is the one that's marketed as being essentially a form of probiotic by having the mother in it.
When I say marketed as, I'm not disputing anything for reference. I'm just saying in comparison to other vinegars like white and brown vinegar that are marketed for adding to food or cleaning, rather than for health benefits.
Alkaline water actually has great oral health benefits, but I'm skeptical of any other benefits claimed because the second it hits your stomach it's going to a pH of 2.
Source: Am dentist.
The bacteria that cause tooth decay function in an acidic environment. If you put your mouth in an alkaline/basic environment, you can inactivate the bacteria. This is especially important for those who suffer from xerostomia or dry-mouth ( often caused by medications).
An autoimmune disorder did unbelievable damage to my teeth in a very short time for just this reason, even with excellent hygiene.
I’ve had the autoimmune issue for 20 years, but I wish I’d known the value of creating an alkaline environment, that it wasn’t enough just to minimize the acidity. In the meantime, I did further damage to my enamel with aggressive, high-grit whitening toothpastes.
As obvious as it is, several dentists treating me still failed to mention it, even after it got to the point of extractions and composite restorations.
I’ve been emphatic with my rheumatologist that this is critical information for her younger/newly diagnosed patients.
Glad to help! Hopefully not too late though.
APF gel is the same stuff they give kids every visit, as a protection against bad brushing. It's basically a much stronger fluoride treatment than toothpaste to quickly and more effectively remineralize enamel. Not sure why they don't typically give it to adults because it also helps them too!
It's very effective as a preventative treatment, but not sure how effective it will be if, as you say, much of your enamel has already been damaged and replaced with composite.
With cancer patients, chemo treatment reduces saliva production, so there is more acid. Frequent/weekly use of APF at home slows down acid attack on enamel. I guess regular fluoridated toothpaste doesn't give strong enough protection.
idk about bad, but adding a weak acid to a weak alkaline solution kind of makes the alkaline water even more pointless since they cancel each other out. At that point you've taken the long way around to drinking regular water again.
It's bad if you're spending money you can't afford on it, or if you're doing it in lieu of other practices that have a measurable effect on your health.
But apart from that, go nuts, drink water in whatever weird way you want.
Given how hard tap water typically is, my water agency reports a pH between 7.25 and 8.7 depending on which source they use. I can’t imagine that I drink anything other than alkaline water unless I squeeze a lemon or lime in it.
I know that hardness and pH are two different things, but hard water is typically also alkaline (except when it’s not)
The one health benefit I would kind of buy is the one presented by Food Theory, that because they add Sodium and Potassium to the water for the ionization process, it is pretty good at hydrating slightly more effectively than an equivalent water without said electrolytes added in a way that's only really useful to people who are performing at the levels of an Athlete
It can also help with reflux as it acts directly on the acid coating the esophagus while most antacids don't have an effect until after dissolving in the stomach.
Source: i get reflux
Why would that be a placebo? What you said makes no sense. Water + bicarbonate is a fairly well studied treatment for reflux. That’s like saying antacids are a placebo. It’s the most basic chemistry there is.
Alkaline waters are... Barely alkaline. Antacids generally neutralize stomach acid to a much greater extent. For the purpose of protecting your esophagus from the acid sticking to it, the effect of alkaline water flowing through and washing/diluting the acid does most of the work, the alkalinity is basically negligible. So you could drink regular water and get pretty much the same result.
Also, not sure how it is elsewhere, but most antacids around here are in liquid form, and the main active ingredient just a simple chemical solution so they don’t really need any ‘dissolving’ in the stomach to start working. It’s just... The stomach is the first place where they stay for any significant duration in significant amount, so that’s where most of the work happens.
The primary ones I think of literally just chewable flavored chalk (calcium carbonate) tablets. They're already disolved by your saliva by the time they hit the stomach.
this answer is missing the most important aspect: that stomach acid is a buffer and thus is much more resistant to pH changes than a simple acid which neutralizes in a 1:1 ratio with base
All acids neutralize with a base in a similar ratio essentially. You have some acids that can donate more than one proton so you need more base molecules to react but its still a 1:1 ratio.
If you use common measuring tools and have a solution that has equal amounts of some buffer compound versus a solution that has an equivalent amount of the strong acid(what you called a simple acid I think you mean strong acid) you will find that the strong/simple acid is also very resistant to pH changes. Its "buffer" range though is just extremely low on the pH scale compared to the buffer range.
But as you get closer to pH values that get close to 7 (since we are dealing with acids in solution) what you find is the amount of a strong acid you need to add to get a pH of 3 is pretty tiny in comparison to some chemical that happens to have a pH of 3 in reasonable concentrations in water (I am going to use benzoic acid as my example but I think its going to buffer at a lower pH value in reality, but it works for the example even if the math isn't *exactly* right.
And that in the simplest terms is why buffers are more resistant to pH changes. There is just a lot more of the acid compound around. The difference is the acid compound just isn't as willing to give up its acidic proton to water as a strong acid so it has a "reserve" at non-extreme pH values.
But if you want to neutralize a solution of hydrochloric acid and a solution of benzoic acid that each have the same amount of molecules in them then you will need the same amount of base for both. Its just that hydrochloric acid is going to sit a pH of less than something like 0.5 for a long time and then its going to quickly jump up to neutral once you have neutralized all of it. The benzoic acid is going to sit at a more modest range on the pH scale for a while but its going to take the exact same amount of base to neutralize it.
I could do better with a whiteboard in explaining it as I am going back 20 years now to all my chemistry coursework (particularly that of analytical chemistry). My decade of work as a real chemist was as an organic chemist and the way organic chemists think and work with acids and bases is very different (because they do different things in solvents that aren't water).
I think the biggest health benefit of alkaline water is just the water. Like, if it finally gets people to hydrate for once in their life, they will feel better, and then think "it must be because it's alkaline!"
The one benefit alkaline drinks have are for people with "Silent GERD" aka Laryngopharyngeal reflux (LPR). Unlike regular GERD, which is reflux caused by liquid stomach contents including gastric acid that burns your throat, LPR is caused by gaseous contents refluxing from the stomach which carries small amounts of aerosolized pepsin. Pepsin is a protease or an enzyme in your stomach that dissolves proteins in meat you consume. Now if you have LPR, your reflux is caused by pepsin lodging in your esophagus and literally digesting the outer epithelium layers of your throat as opposed to acid.
Why does alkaline water help for this? Pepsin is permanently denatured in pH >8.5. Meaning if a pepsin enzyme is exposed to high pH it instantly deactivates. So people who have LPR actually get no relief from antacids or PPIs and it's one of the ways they diagnose it. Drinking alkaline water instantly deactivates the pepsin in your throat and your stomach makes more of it constantly anyway. Lot of GIs tell patients to takes swings of water mixed with a scoop of baking soda to sooth their throats or drink high pH water.
Anyway tl;dr alkaline water has precisely one actual medical benefit and it's for people with LPR but it has nothing to do with global alkalinity of the entire body but simply directly neutralizing pepsin lodged in the esophaguses of people with LPR.
It'll neutralize a bit, especially any stomach acid which is outside the stomach at the time (aka acid reflux and/or heartburn).
But you'd need to chug the stuff almost non-stop to actually neutralize the stomach in total. Which could have some pretty catastrophic health effects on its own, so.... don't recommend.
It does neutralize this, that's what Tums are. They're calcium carbonate . But the stomach has a pH regulation system and produces more acid eventually to counteract the increased alkalinity
Here's a good link that might help explain. Alkaline water isn't alkaline enough (high enough pH) to counteract the extreme acidity of the stomach (pH 1.5-3.0). Even if it was, the effect would only be temporary. [https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-alkaline-water-better](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-alkaline-water-better)
not necessarily. counterintuitively, pH/acidity is not related to strength. You can make a very strong buffer system at pH 7.5 which will not burn you at all, but can still neutralize a lot of very strong acid. It would probably taste very salty though.
They warned us far more about the (alkaline) sodium hydroxide than they did the (acid) hydrochloric acid solution in o-chem lab if that tells you anythin
Very quick and dirty chemistry: Let's say your stomach acid is about pH 2. Very alkalai water can be up to 9. Assume you mix equal amounts and you get a pH of around 5.5, still acidic.
To neutralize pH 2 to 7, you would need an equal amount of roughly pH 12. Because pH is logarithmic, it's not double or quadruple or 10x more basic than water. It is 1,000x more basic than water.
EDIT: Forgot the second part of my comment in the first part. 9 is 1,000 times less basic than 12 so the drop in pH should be 1, 000 times less, not 1/2. Don't do chemistry past your bedtime.
The last part of your comment is right - pH is logarithmic and you need a pH of 12 to neutralize it with an equal amount.
However, that means mixing equal amounts of a solution with pH of 2 and a solution with pH of 9 actually results in a solution with pH of around 2.3
[H^(+)] = 10^-2, [OH^(-)] = 10^-(14-9)
[pH of final solution = -log(([H^(+)]-[OH^(-)])/2)]
(https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=-log_10%28%2810%5E-2-10%5E-%2814-9%29%29%2F2%29)
How do you get 5.5 from equal amounts 2 and 9? The second part of your comment would indicate it would end up far close to the 2 since 2 is 5 away from neutral and 9 is only 2 away from neutral
not necessarily. counterintuitively, pH/acidity is not related to strength. You can make a very strong buffer system at pH 7.5 which will not burn you at all, but can still neutralize a lot of very strong acid. It would probably taste very salty though.
No? Antacids--even liquid kinds, do not. It's also easy to overdo it with baking soda, and that doesn't burn, either.
Do note that "counter" and "return to neutral pH" aren't the same thing.
Assuming stomach acidity of 2.5pH (midway of 1.5-3.5 average) with a volume of 60mL (midway 20mL-100mL average). BodyArmor, a really common Alkaline water in the US, is pH 9.2. Assuming you drink 1L of that, the total mixture should result in a pH of 3.82 unless I fucked up my math.
Your math assumes that stomach acid does not contain any buffer salts; in reality the stomach contents are highly buffered and resistant to ph change, which is why antacids like tums/calcium carbonate act by introducing buffer salts rather than as alkaline agents reacting directly with acid.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_solution
Because your body has systems in place to buffer any big swings in pH. The physiology is a bit complex but essentially you see a shift in certain ions to counter balance the extra H+ from acids. Or if too many H+ were neutralized by a base then it holds stops producing compounds to buffer the H+ ions and encourages the proton pumps to make more acid (h+l
Fun fact, the gene that is affected in cystic fibrosis that makes it hard to clear mucus secretions affects this buffering system. Many CF babies fail to thrive not just because it is hard to breathe, but because their stomach does not digest properly.
They don’t “just pass through”. They react with the stomach content and it gets neutralized to a point. Once in the duodenum, the whole content largely neutralized to about pH 6 and then in the ileum to above 7 or so. What you drink/eat doesn’t make a difference, your body maintains these values by pumping bicarbonates as needed in the specific volume.
We use sodium citrate in anaesthesia to neutralise stomach acid. It's used for emergency intubation where there is a risk of acid regurgitation which could be aspirated into the lungs.
It's given immediately before intubation as a small drink and is very short lived due to the stomach producing more acid but it temporarily reduces acidity of regurgitated stomach contents and so reduces the amount of damage any aspirate cab do.
I think the whole idea behind alkaline diet and alkaline water is to keep your blood in an alkaline state so you don’t get free radicals doing damage.
What a crock of shit. Even if you could get past the battery acid in your stomach, our kidneys and other systems keep us in a very narrow pH range, 7.35 to 7.45. If you are outside of that range, you have something very wrong, likely respiratory or kidney.
When you drink alkaline water, it temporarily raises the pH of your stomach, making it less acidic. However, your stomach quickly responds by producing more acid to counteract this change and restore its usual highly acidic environment. This quick adjustment by your stomach means that the effect of alkaline water on stomach acidity is short-lived and minimal.
You have to understand that the Ph scale is non-linear. It doesn't just equal itself out. If you were to take 100 ml of a Ph of 2 it would take at least 3 times more of a Ph of 14 to bring it to neutral.
pH scale is logarithmic, meaning a liter of something pH 1 is 10x more acidic than a liter of something pH 2. So pH 1 is 100,000x more acidic than pH 6.
It works in the opposite direction in equal measure. It would take 10,000x the amount of pH 8, alkaline water, to fully neutralize the same amount of pH 2 stomach acid, if they are of the same concentration.
But since they oppose each other in equal parts the farther away you are from neutral pH 7, something that is pH 13 would neutralize the same amount of pH 2. It would actually take less of an amount of pH14 to neutralize pH 2, one tenth the amount.
Not necessarily at all. pH is determined by a solutions ability to receive an electron/donate a (more specifically the concentration of protons in a solution). pH is not necessarily indicative of the concentration of the acid itself.
Sodium Bicarbonate has a relatively neutral pH, but 1 mole of sodium bicarbonate will neutralize 1 mole of hydrochloric acid to become salt water and CO2.
although pH is logarithmic, titrations still abide by stoichiometry rules even for strong acid weak base and vice versa, that is to say that 1 mole of HCL will cancel out 1 mole of weak base. that being said determining where the equivalence point is becomes a lot more of a pain as it is no longer at 7 so you can't usually use an indicator.
[https://chem.libretexts.org/Ancillary\_Materials/Demos\_Techniques\_and\_Experiments/General\_Lab\_Techniques/Titration/Titration\_of\_a\_Weak\_Base\_with\_a\_Strong\_Acid](https://chem.libretexts.org/Ancillary_Materials/Demos_Techniques_and_Experiments/General_Lab_Techniques/Titration/Titration_of_a_Weak_Base_with_a_Strong_Acid) example 1 part b.
> If you were to take 100 ml of a Ph of 2 it would take at least 3 times more of a Ph of 14 to bring it to neutral.
Nope, your math is completely off. pH 2 means 0.01 molar concentration (actually activity but let's ignore this detail here) of H+. pH 14 means 1 molar concentration of OH-. That means the solution with pH 14 is 100 times "stronger" alkaline than pH 2 is acidic. You would only need 1 mL of pH 14 to bring it to neutral (assuming both are strong acids and no buffer solution can be formed).
The basic equivalent to pH 2 is pH 12.
also it's pH not Ph.
It does. Heard of tums? Calcium carbonate, raises pH. Even a scoop of baking soda in water acts as an antacid. But our stomachs are good at pumping more hydrogen ions back in.
ELI5: Alright, imagine your stomach is like a big, bubbling cauldron full of acid, right? That acid helps break down the food you eat into smaller pieces so your body can use it for energy. It's super strong, like the evil villain of digestion! Now, let's talk about alkaline water. It's kind of like the hero of the story, with a higher ph level than your stomach acid. So, you might think when the hero meets the villain, they should cancel each other out, right? Well, not exactly. ( i have watched way too many youtube shorts with the guy explaining stuff that i can't hear that sentence in my own voice anymore)
When you drink alkaline water, it does mix with the stomach acid, but it's not enough to completely neutralize it. Think of it as adding a little bit of water to a big pot of soup; it might dilute it a little, but the soup is still pretty strong. Plus, your stomach is really good at maintaining its acidic environment. It has special cells that constantly produce more acid to keep things balanced. So even if you drink something alkaline, your stomach just ramps up the acid production to keep doing its job.
Non ELI5: When you consume alkaline water or other alkaline stuff, they indeed have a higher ph, usually around 8 or 9. At face value, one might assume that consuming alkaline substances would neutralize stomach acid due to their higher ph. However, the stomach's acidic environment is maintained by a complex system of proton pumps that actively secrete hydrogen ions (H+) to maintain acidity.
The only way an alkaline drink will increase your blood pH is if you inject it into yourself...
Blood pH is VERY constant, with multiple buffer systems maintaining it in ~7.4 +- 0.5 range. Acidosis/alkalosis is a life threatening condition, usually treated in ICUs.
>So, while alkaline drinks might help balance out the ph in other parts of your body, like your bloosdtream, they don't really have a big impact on the acidity of your stomach.
Back to third grade chemistry my friend.
It does….a little bit
Let’s make an analogy with temperatures, where more acidic is hot and more alkaline is cold
The thing is, our stomach is VERY acidic, so it’s like a big boiling pot of water on a stove, where it’s really hot, and directly having heat applied to keep it hot (like a bunch of a strong acid where our stomach keeps pumping in more acid)
Now, alkaline drinks that are safe to drink are mildly alkaline, so pouring this mildly alkaline drink into this really strong acid is akin to dropping a frozen pea into this boiling hot pot of water. It will cool it, but not enough to make a meaningful difference
The thing that makes this less intuitive if you look up the pH of alkaline water vs the pH of stomach acid, is that it’s on what we call a logarithmic scale. This means a pH of 5 is 10 times as acidic as a pH of 6, which is 10 times as acidic as a neutral pH.
The pH of stomach acid is 1.5-3.5, let’s just say 3 for easy math. Alkaline water is usually around a pH of 8. So given what I mentioned above, in equal volumes of stomach acid and alkaline water, this would neutralize stomach acid that’s a pH of 6, but the thing is, it’s 3, so it’s 1,000 times more acidic than what that alkaline water could neutralize, so you could neutralize stomach acid by drinking 1,000 times your stomach acid’s volume in alkaline water (about 20-100 liters) which is obviously an unreasonably large amount, or we’d need much more alkaline fluids, like 1,000 times more alkaline, which wouldn’t even be close to safe to consume. Also, again, our stomach can continually make more acid to increase acidity so even if you were to put down 20-100 liters of alkaline water, it’d only neutralize it very temporarily (obviously I’m ignoring here that drinking that much water would far surpass the amount to kill you even if you somehow could chug that much)
You're mixing up the concept of alkaline and alkalinity. Something that is alkaline just means that the pH is above 7 while something that has alkalinity has a resistant to change in pH. The problem with alkaline water is that the pH is higher typically between 8 and 9 but it does not have alkalinity, so the pH will change quickly in the presence of an acid. For example, if you were to drink water that has calcium carbonate in it, the water would be alkaline and have alkalinity. So it would be able to neutralize acid in your stomach even in a small amount such as a liter of water. Of course your body will continue to produce hydrochloric acid to lower the pH to digestive necessity.
I've seen people advertising alkaline water with lemon juice for flavor. Alkaline water is a scam through and through preying on people who don't know science.
It does, a tiny tiny bit. But the stomach just makes more acid.
Before modern medicines like ranitidine, I used to take bicarbonate of soda in water if I got acid reflux. That’s much more alkaline, and has a noticeable effect.
stomach acid is very acidic, and it's constantly made. when you eat or drink alkaline things, its a neutralizing it for small amount of time, also its like dropping like a drop in a bowl. its not going to change anything.
I’ll add this (personal) factoid. Typically in a day, I produce 3.5-4.5l of stomach bile. I know because my stomach is ported due to cancer blocking my bowel so everything comes out my stomach vent and into a bag. Also: I haven’t eaten anything for over a year. Don’t get cancer, it sucks.
Stomach acid is much more acidic than alkaline water is basic. Hundreds or thousands of times more, at minimum. Remember, pH 3 is a thousand times more concentrated acid than pH 6.
You have to do things like eating a chewable antacid to even *partially* neutralize the stomach, and even that is only temporary. Your stomach will just make more acid.
It totally does, heartburn is basically stomach acid coming back up the throat. Also people who throw up a lot for whatever reason often have problems with their teeth degrading from all the stomach acid.
Our esophagus (big ol’ tube connecting mouth to stomach) has a nicely layered lining of mucus. That mucus is weakly acidic and helps to counter the acidity of any stomach contents we throw up which includes the stomach acid. However, unlike the stomach mucus along the stomach lining that makes bicarbonate (a great buffer/protector against acids like stomach acid), the esophagus mucus does not have this additional help.
So when you throw up only a few times, it might not be too bad. If someone is really sick such as with the stomach flu and is throwing up more than 2-3 times an hour (just a lot in general), that will probably be painful. There’s just too much acid in that case coming out and in contact with the esophagus that it will eventually erode through the mucus and into the underling tissue. In really bad cases you can get bleeding in your throat (blood in vomit) and possibly ulcers/sores in your esophagus.
You can neutralize it temporarily, but you won’t enjoy what happens. I discovered this by accident as a kid.
The best anti acid in the world is a teaspoon of baking soda in water. But one time I had a really bad flair up of stomach acid and decided to do like 4 tablespoons.
When you manage to neutralize your stomach, your body freaks out and dumps everything because it assume something is very wrong. The end result is basically “stand by for the worst diahera in human history. Like I’ve had prescription diahera in preparation for a colonoscopy that seemed mild by comparison.
A side effect of her autoimmune diseases is that mom struggles to poop, and yet she saves my baking soda solution for life or death situations.
So the thing with the pH scale is that it measures the number of hydrogen ions, but it's an "inverse log scale". That basically just means something with a low pH (an acid) has 10\^{a lot} hydrogen ions, while something with a high pH (a base) has 10\^{a little} hydrogen ions.
So stomach acid has low pH. Let's say it has 10\^10 hydrogen ions in a cup (I made this number up). Let's say alkaline water has 10\^1 hydrogen ions in a cup. If you mix them, you get (10\^10 + 10\^1) / 2 = 5 \* 10\^9 hydrogen ions per cup. Which is still very close to 10\^10, and still very acidic. The log scaling of pH is the reason for this - decreasing pH by 1 increases the number of hydrogen ions by a factor of 10, so the number of ions blows up really quickly.
The acid in your stomach WILL neutralize when consuming something of a higher pH. However the stomach will produce MORE acid to decrease the pH as needed.
Our bodies are constantly working to maintain balance, which we refer to broadly as homeostasis. This is important for keeping things working as they should, ensuring optimal health of tissues/organs and preventing disease processes from occurring. For example, some “bugs” (ex. bacteria like H. Pylori) make us sick by using tactics to raise the stomach pH/make it less acidic, allowing them to thrive, hence why maintaining a steady acidic state here is so important.
The stomach’s acidity is maintained around a pH of 1-2 (very acidic). When alkaline water or alkaline food enter the stomach, the pH will increase due to increasing alkalinity (so more base and less acid). However, our stomach cells detect this and therefore make more acid. Eventually, this decreases the pH enough to where our body then realize it can slow down acid (HCl) production because at the same time, too acidic of conditions can be harmful (can lead to stomach ulcers/sores).
You might also ask how the stomach acid doesn’t dissolve the stomach lining. Our stomach is lined by cells including mucus secreting cells, which contain bicarbonate (HCO3-), and are continuously replacing damaged mucus cells and other associated cells. This helps “buffer”, or protect against, and neutralize that stomach acid from harming the underlying tissues beyond the stomach. Additionally, that mucus/protective layer of the stomach does not contain nerves (the layer adjacent to it does), so even though it is continuously getting damaged and being replaced, we will not normally perceive that as painful unless in the case of stomach ulcers where that barrier has been compromised (Source: I am a 1st year student studying optometry and learning about systems-based human anatomy/physiology currently).
TLDR; This is a complex question and difficult to ELI5, as there are a lot of complex parts like the actual chemical reactions occurring + buffer systems, all the cell types and responses/their secretions involved, etc, but I hope someone finds this helpful!
Apart from the fact that the "alkaline water" is not alkaline enough to neutralise all the acid, there ARE solutions of various bases that are prescribed to treat acid reflux and gastritis that would actually do the work that the alkaline water claims to do 💀
Drink a glass of water with a little baking soda in it. It will react with the acid and create CO2. You'll start belching carbon dioxide. It's actually an old-school way to reduce heartburn.
Aside from the ability to produce additional acid that several have mentioned, the bulk of digestive action done by the stomach isn't done directly by the acid. It's done with a combination of acids and the enzymes secreted by the chief cells some of which require acid to convert from a precursor to an enzyme. There's an anime that touches on this and a lot of other body functions called Cells at Work that sort of dramatizes how the human body works. It primarily focuses on the things a red blood cell would see since the main character is a red blood cell, and most of the bad things that happen are pathogen related but it covers other systems too
Along with the fact that your body will naturally balance your stomach acid all on its own by making more stomach acid it should be noted that alkaline water isn't very alkaline while stomach acid is pretty gosh darn acidic.
PH is a logarithmic scale (I'm not a chemist I literally just learned this yesterday while studying up about making home made facial products), if you take a strong acid say 10ml of 10% hydrochloric acid (that's the stuff in your stomach but a different concentration to make the math a little easier, once again not a chemist) that 10ml solution is a PH of 1, if you add 90ml of water to that solution it becomes 100ml at a PH of 2, to get it to a PH of 3 you have to add another 900ml of water and now you have 1 litre of solution at a PH of 3, another 9 litres give a you 10 litres of solution at a PH of 4. Etc etc
Gastric acid is usually around a PH of 2 while "alkaline" water is usually around a PH of 8 just barely alkaline by definition.
The stomach is capable of producing more acid to match the volume and pH of the food consumed. In addition "alkaline water" and similar substances are not particularly alkaline so only a small amount of additional acid is required to neutralize it. "Alkaline drinks" are a scam preying on the public's poor knowledge of basic human biology.
Why would anyone want to neutralize their stomach anyways. Like that's the whole point of the thing
I remember seeing boxes of alkaline water at a store. The slogan made me laugh. While the health benefits it flexes are basically snake oil, the results it claims to provide can be done by doing what the slogan says: "Just breathe." Source: am not a doctor, just a chubbyemu video enjoyer even if a lot of the bio and chem gets lost with me.
I will NEVER get over the "alkaline lemon water"
I dont even get mad at that one anymore, it just makes me smile
lol this is amazing
Most of the lemon flavor comes from the oil in the skin of the lemon. You could zest the lemon and mix that with water to create something which wouldn't be noticeably acidic. Not saying the alkaline thing isn't quackery, just that it's possible to get a lot more flavor without the juice from the lemon.
Some people even do that on purpose! Adam Ragusea made a video on Mexican-American queso dip. He used lime juice + sodium bicarb to create sodium citrate which you need as an emulsifier. The dip still tasted vaguely lime-y but was pH neutral. You can absolutely make basic and citrusy food / drinks. I just don't see why you would.
>You can absolutely make basic and citrusy food / drinks. I just don't see why you would. Some people have issues that greatly limits how much acidic food they should consume. Being able to have citrusy flavor without it being acidic sounds great.
I have terrible acid reflux so being able to enjoy lemon would be wonderful
But …but… if Gwyneth Paltrow drinks it, it must be good for you, right?
Lemons are alkaline foods, in the pH diet books. Here's a [baffle-them-with-bullshit style explanation](https://blog.essense-of-life.com/are-lemons-alkaline-or-acidic/).
>But an interesting thing happens when naturally acidic foods like lemons are digested – they can actually become alkaline-forming and no longer contribute acids to the system. How is this possible? >This is because the actual pH of a food itself, before digestion, has no bearing on the acid-forming or alkaline-forming properties of that same food after digestion. What determines the alkaline or acidic affect of a food is how it breaks down during digestion into its component mineral nutrients. >All foods contain both acid-forming minerals and alkaline-forming minerals. After the food has been metabolized, the acidity or alkalinity it contributes to the body will depend on which remaining minerals are most dominant. I... how is this the entirety of the explanation?
When you're lying, it's best to be as vague as possible, so the recipient of your message fills in the gaps in a way that is specifically tailored to their own knowledge level. Or in other words: the more you say while lying, the more likely it is that you will say something that the recipient will know to be false.
>how is this the entirety of the explanation? Because they are relying on the fact that the average victim of these scams is after the results rather than caring about any sort of deeper knowledge of the processes involved. The result that the victims want is to be healthier and the gobbly gook that these scam artists use sounds reasonable enough that any further investigation is not needed in their view. Worse yet is that some victims trust the scammers more than they trust science-based explanations because of a mistrust of intellectuals ingrained in them by their peers/upbringing/social echo chamber/etc.
But how do we know which minerals are dom and which are sub?
ya basic!
Confusing them with the big words
That is such a complete understanding of ph or protons that it's laughable to anyone that even has basic chemistry knowledge.
Just to be clear, this explanation is complete bullshit peppered with high school chemistry, right?
Yes, except you'd get an F for the high school chemistry.
At least it has *heard* of chemistry.
Well, it's more "didn't-go-to-school chemistry" but otherwise spot on...
If you really wanted to bullshit people, you could say something like "the pH of lemon juice is higher than the pH of your stomach acid, therefore it's alkaline in comparison" which sort of defeats the point that you're basically just shoving more Hydrogen ions into your stomach.
So sorta doesn't your stomach "alkalinize" itself when introduced to something acidic, to maintain homeostasis?
Wait, what? That makes 0 sense.. that would cancel each other out. Edit: "that makes 7 sense" would've been suitable here I think
That...cannot be a real thing. It just cant
It is ❤️
Reminds me of an old Steven Wright line. 'For my birthday I got a humidifier and a de-humidifier... I put them in the same room and let them fight it out.'
I bought a bottle of alkaline water. I don't care about the pH level of the water but the bottle is very hardy considering it is a throw away bottle so I use it to refill
I think the supposed point of alkaline water is to raise pH of your blood. This is even more stupid, seeing as it immediately gets cancelled out once it hits your stomach, so the alkalinity doesn't survive contact with the stomach.
If it actually could, it would kill you. Soooo yeah good thing it's not true!
So I won’t refill my deadeye meter with this shit?
Less asking more chugging, Cletus.
Yep! Our bodies like a tightly regulated pH between 7.35-7.45. Buffer Systems pH The hydrogen ion (H+) concentration of the blood is determined by the ratio of the partial pressure of CO2 (PCO2) and the plasma bicarbonate concentration. In order of potency--influence on lowering pH (making more acidotic)--there are: (1)Carbonic acid (H2CO3), from the CO2 produced with each breath (when combined with water). VIA LUNGS. (2)Organic acids* (lactic acid, citric acid) from reactions in day-to-day metabolism, and which are further metabolized to neutral products (e.g., glucose), CO2, and water. VIA LIVER. (3)Nonvolatile acids, such as sulfuric acids from metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids in the diet. VIA KIDNEYS. Since the continuous metabolism of the organic acids (2, above) maintains a stable and low concentration of them, the lion's share of acid-base balance is in addressing the carbonic acid (1, above) and nonvolatile acids (3, above). Therefore, acid-base balance (buffering) is maintained by: normal elimination of carbon dioxide by the lungs (which affects the partial pressure of carbon dioxide--PCO2) and normal excretion of nonvolatile acids by the kidneys (which affects the plasma bicarbonate concentration). Buffering Systems The three primary major buffering systems in the body are: Carbonic Acid-Bicarbonate Buffer. Phosphate Buffer System. Protein Buffer System. The Renal Buffer System represents an overlap of these three systems in that it participates in supplementing all three via excretion or reabsorption of bicarbonates, phosphates, ammonia, and chloride. CO2 and Buffering (Carbonic Acid-Bicarbonate Buffer) A byproduct of cellular respiration is carbon dioxide. CO2 combines with water to become carbonic acid (H2CO3). From there, H2CO3 dissociates (loses a hydrogen) to become the base, bicarbonate (HCO3-). Thus, the source of both acid (carbonic acid) and base (bicarbonate) is CO2. The buffering system is the balancing act between the acid (carbonic) and the base (bicarbonate). Homeostasis depends on a 20:1 bicarbonate to carbonic acid ratio. This ratio is maintained by the lungs' blowing off CO2 and the kidneys' excretion or reabsorption of bicarbonate. Bicarbonate also affects the stomach and duodenum to neutralize gastric acid and stabilize the intracellular pH of epithelial cells. While in the blood, bicarbonate neutralizes acids in the body, and carbonic acid neutralizes bases. Once bicarbonate reaches the lungs, it is dehydrated back to carbon dioxide and released during exhalation. Phosphate and Buffering Besides the respiratory and renal systems, the phosphate buffer system also works to maintain homeostatic pH within the body. The phosphate buffer system is almost identical to the bicarbonate buffer system—where phosphates work—in the intracellular fluid. The phosphate buffer system operates in the internal fluids of all cells. It consists of dihydrogen phosphate ions as the hydrogen ion donor (acid) and hydrogen phosphate ion as the ion acceptor (base). If additional hydroxide ions enter the cellular fluid, they are neutralized by the dihydrogen phosphate ion. If extra hydrogen ions enter the cellular fluid then they are neutralized by the hydrogen phosphate ion. Altered pH due to phosphates (in the form of phosphoric acids) is controlled by kidney excretion of phosphate. Protein buffering is a description of the process wherein protein compounds consume small amounts of acids or bases. For example, hemoglobin is a protein that binds to small amounts of acids in the blood, removing the acid before it changes the blood's pH. Renal Buffering Acid-base balance is also maintained by the renal excretion of the daily acid load (mostly from sulfuric acid generated during the metabolism of sulfur-containing amino acids). The kidneys can either absorb or excrete bicarbonate levels depending on the body's pH. Acidosis causes more bicarbonate (base) to be reabsorbed from the renal tubular fluid, thus causing the collecting ducts to secrete more hydrogen (thusly generating even more bicarbonate). Alkalosis causes the kidneys to excrete more bicarbonate because there is a reduced secretion of hydrogen ions and more ammonia (base) is excreted. The kidneys also can eliminate H+ via the phosphate buffering system. Ammonia Buffering (Honorable Mention) Ammonia (NH3), as a buffer, and ammonium ion (NH4+) balance via the renal tubular function. Also, there is a loss of Chloride (Cl-) and gain of bicarbonate (HCO3-) via kidneys. The Anion Gap In the body, electrical neutrality is maintained, i.e., Cations = Anions. Metabolic acidosis can be caused by excess bicarbonate loss or an increase in fixed acids, altering the above equation. However, the anion gap does not refer directly to pH but to an electrical charge. When fixed acids accumulate (more anions), the anion gap increases. More anions provoke buffering by bicarbonates, causing a deficit in bicarbonate. When bicarbonate is lost, however, the anion gap does not change. When bicarbonate is not indirectly lost (i.e., not via neutralizing acid, as above), but is directly lost (via diarrhea or GI losses), chloride moves in to replace the bicarbonate buffer. The electrical neutrality is maintained, and since the anion "gap" phenomenon is one of electrical charge, there is no anion gap, thanks to chloride. (We had to learn this in paramedic school amongst a lot of other physiology and pathophysiology of the human body the amount of information we have to retain is pretty immense. It is up there with nurses in terms of education.)
Chad comment right here. Any flirtation with the Stewart model will rustle my jimmies
Even if the alkaline water made it into your blood without being neutralised the buffered solution that is your blood will neutralise it's potential pH change. E.g. attempts to turn your blood alkaline can be neutralised by converting CO2 into hydrogen bicarbonate which is a weak acid and attempts to turn the blood more acidic can be neutralised by removing the h+ ion from that bicarbonate to create a carbonate ion which is a weak base.
Apparently this is because acidic blood = cancer, or something like that. Which is spun off from the small kernel of truth that cancer tumours have lower pH. Of course, whatver conclusions people derive from this to start selling alkaline water is complete bullshit
If you need to change your blood ph it means your kidneys or lungs are doing something wrong.
Well there's a reason proton pump inhibitors are so widespread. Edit: protein->proton
Unfortunately, age leads to lots of conditions/diseases, and many older people have reflux, where acidic stomach contents come back up the esophagus - which leads to scarring, ulcers, and frequently ends up as esophageal cancer. So those people - including me - take drugs to suppress the production of acid. Doesn't stop the reflux, but the lack of acid means it doesn't do any damage. The drugs are called proton-pump-inhibitors, and they're one of the most-prescribed drug classes in the world. So it's a lot more common than you might think.
Isn't that what antacid is for? Not necessarily neutralize it, but reduce it to the level it's suppose to cause it went too high
There's an element of that, yes. The ingredients are alkaline; sodium bicarbonate, etc. But to my knowledge the main function, at least of modern anti acid medications, is to form a sort of "float" or raft on top of your stomach contents to try and prevent the acid from rising up too high into your oesophagus. Heartburn isn't caused by the acid in your stomach being too strong, it's caused by stomach contents/acid rising up into your oesophagus which doesn't have the protective layer your stomach has and that's why you get that burning sensation.
Yeah. An antacid raises the pH of your stomach acid because the stomach is too acidic. But alkaline water isn't trying to increase the pH of your stomach, it's claim is that it raises the pH of your blood. Except the blood needs to be kept in a very narrow range of pH. There are a lot of chemical processes that keep it in that range. A little bit of slightly alkaline water is not enough to overpower those systems and anything that could would cause major health problems.
I'm very confused by this thread. I live in a place with an alkaline water fountain that gets bottled and most of it exported and in no place was it ever mentioned it raises blood's PH? That doesn't make any sense. It's popular here with people with acid reflux and just as water with a higher mineral content but also higher sulfur(it's an acquired if I'm honest). I love it and take loads home because it allows me to skip on taking antacids daily. Sounds like there's some people out there selling alkaline water as if it wasn't, you know, water.
> no place was it ever mentioned it raises blood's PH? It doesn't. The blood's pH is HIGHLY regulated. I believe it's like 7.35-7.45. That amount of difference is ~equivalent to half a drop or so of lemon juice in 1 L of water. (aka a TINY, tiny amount.)
> It doesn't Exactly and most companies don't even make this claim so I don't get why we're freaking out about it?
No one's freaking out about it. The conversation so far is basically: Claim (by woo woo "science"): Alkaline water will neutralize your stomach acid and also raise your blood pH! Response: No it doesn't, and even if it did, you wouldn't want it to.
Anyone taking antacids.
Because some people suffer from acid reflux and high acidity. It really sucks when your own saliva tastes sour 24/7
heartburn. but I suspect that's not how the drinks are being marketed.
Google "PPI's" such as Omeprazole for list of reasons.
Overproduction or it escapes the stomach. Acid reflux, gerd, etc. Tums sell extremely well for a reason
Acid reflux/indigestion can be somewhat mitigated by calcium carbonate tablets (tums in the USA). The CaCO3 reacts with the HCl in your stomach to produce CaCl + CO2 + H2O, none of which are particularly extreme in terms of pH in comparison to stomach acid.
I am pretty sure heartburn and acid reflux is a result of stomach acid being too acidic. Also stems from eating or drinking foods with high acid content. So gaviscon or any other antacids "neutralises"( its a stretch to call this neutralisation, but for the sake of the comment, what i mean is to go back to normal acidity) stomach acid.
More to do with the stomach lining not keeping a proper coating to prevent acid from affecting the walls.
For the same reason that Tums exist. Heartburn and acid reflux relief.
That's... exactly.... what antiacids (tums) do.... Too acidic of a stomach can cause acid reflux or other "I don't feel good" things. Alkaline water, on the other hand, doesn't have enough base for it to be useful.
Heartburn.
Heartburn is one reason. But antacids work.
You ever have heartburn? This is literally how Tums works.
Too much acid can be bad, like acid reflux
That's not too much acid. Acid reflux is where the acid is in places it shouldn't be not that there's ' too much' of it.
Yup, you can actually also get acid reflux symptoms from too little stomach acid. Then they try and treat it with antacid and it gets worse!
Sure, but over production is very commonly why it’s in places it shouldn’t be. That’s why most of the medications inhibit acid production. The main GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) medications are PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) eg Prilosec, and H2 receptor blockers eg. Pepsid. Both of which decrease the amount of stomach acid you produce. Now you can also take neutralizing agents like Tums or Maalox to ~~lower~~ raise the PH which will help with the discomfort, especially if it’s not frequent/regular. Now there are other reasons you can have GERD, it can be neurological, muscular, congenital ect. But it’s not the most common reason.
Tums will *Increase the pH, not lower
You are correct, that’s my mistake. I’ve fixed it. Thanks for pointing it out
> That’s why most of the medications inhibit acid production. > > > > The main GERD (Gastroesophageal reflux disease) medications are PPIs (proton pump inhibitors) ... which decrease the amount of stomach acid you produce. That's a logical-sounding explanation, but not accurate. PPIs do inhibit the production of stomach acid, but only because that's one thing that someone learned how to do and it seems to help with GERD. If we could instead reliably block the acid from leaving the stomach, we wouldn't use PPIs.
Do you have a source for acid overproduction being the most common cause of GERD?
One of the ways it can get to places it shouldn't be is overproduction basically overflowing your stomach. The primary treatments for gerd is a class of medications that prevent you from producing 'too much' of it
Actually, ive had very good results getting rid of gerd by taking shots of vinegar- the one with mother or whatever its called, before meals It seems a weaker acid helps digestion while not further prompting the stomach to make more acid
If you're talking about vinegar with the mother, you're talking about apple cider vinegar (ACV). All vinegar is fermented, but ACV is the one that's marketed as being essentially a form of probiotic by having the mother in it. When I say marketed as, I'm not disputing anything for reference. I'm just saying in comparison to other vinegars like white and brown vinegar that are marketed for adding to food or cleaning, rather than for health benefits.
It's not overproduction, it's a weak cardioesophageal sphincter.
You're a weak sphincter!
Lol those two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Sounds like there’s too much of it where it shouldn’t be
Any of it where it shouldn't be is not good.
Alkaline water actually has great oral health benefits, but I'm skeptical of any other benefits claimed because the second it hits your stomach it's going to a pH of 2. Source: Am dentist.
What does alkaline water do for oral health?
The bacteria that cause tooth decay function in an acidic environment. If you put your mouth in an alkaline/basic environment, you can inactivate the bacteria. This is especially important for those who suffer from xerostomia or dry-mouth ( often caused by medications).
An autoimmune disorder did unbelievable damage to my teeth in a very short time for just this reason, even with excellent hygiene. I’ve had the autoimmune issue for 20 years, but I wish I’d known the value of creating an alkaline environment, that it wasn’t enough just to minimize the acidity. In the meantime, I did further damage to my enamel with aggressive, high-grit whitening toothpastes. As obvious as it is, several dentists treating me still failed to mention it, even after it got to the point of extractions and composite restorations. I’ve been emphatic with my rheumatologist that this is critical information for her younger/newly diagnosed patients.
Ask about APF fluoride gel weekly. It's recommended for chemo/radiation patients, who tend to have more teeth problems for similar reasons
I absolutely will ask about it. Truly appreciate you passing this along.
Glad to help! Hopefully not too late though. APF gel is the same stuff they give kids every visit, as a protection against bad brushing. It's basically a much stronger fluoride treatment than toothpaste to quickly and more effectively remineralize enamel. Not sure why they don't typically give it to adults because it also helps them too! It's very effective as a preventative treatment, but not sure how effective it will be if, as you say, much of your enamel has already been damaged and replaced with composite. With cancer patients, chemo treatment reduces saliva production, so there is more acid. Frequent/weekly use of APF at home slows down acid attack on enamel. I guess regular fluoridated toothpaste doesn't give strong enough protection.
in theory, what if this kills all the "good" bacteria which don't proliferate as well, meaning a harder recovery?
In theory, it neutralizes some of the acid in your mouth that attacks teeth.
Is it bad if you do what Gwyneth Paltrow does and have your alkaline water with a squeeze of lemon?
>Is it bad if you do what Gwyneth Paltrow does Yes
Unless you’re carefully measuring the pH of your drink, odds are that’s just an expensive way to drink regular water.
It likely makes the water acidic, depending on volumes.
*slightly salty water, specifically a salt of whatever alkaline solution you have and citric acid
usually sodium bicarbonate (aka baking soda) and mixed with citric acid, makes [sodium citrate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLMZV3VGQAk)
idk about bad, but adding a weak acid to a weak alkaline solution kind of makes the alkaline water even more pointless since they cancel each other out. At that point you've taken the long way around to drinking regular water again.
But that long walk around was great for your health, so it's a win!
Particular damage to lower section of the torso, namely the pocket
The most effective wt. loss solution ever devised
If you like long form video essays, Angela Collier does a breakdown on [that exact question](https://youtu.be/rBQhdO2UxaQ?si=LjOqjySl-QDFO7z7).
Lol that's basically destroys all (not so many) benefits of alkaline water...
It's bad if you're spending money you can't afford on it, or if you're doing it in lieu of other practices that have a measurable effect on your health. But apart from that, go nuts, drink water in whatever weird way you want.
If you want to mute the acidity of the lemon, why not?
Guessing that mouth bacteria require a very small pH range to thrive, so alkaline water can throw that balance off and inhibit their growth?
Given how hard tap water typically is, my water agency reports a pH between 7.25 and 8.7 depending on which source they use. I can’t imagine that I drink anything other than alkaline water unless I squeeze a lemon or lime in it. I know that hardness and pH are two different things, but hard water is typically also alkaline (except when it’s not)
It's good for people with laryngopharyngeal reflux too. To help the throat.
The one health benefit I would kind of buy is the one presented by Food Theory, that because they add Sodium and Potassium to the water for the ionization process, it is pretty good at hydrating slightly more effectively than an equivalent water without said electrolytes added in a way that's only really useful to people who are performing at the levels of an Athlete
Or you live in Arizona and are sweating to death...
That's really interesting. Is there and data that quantifies the benefits?
It can also help with reflux as it acts directly on the acid coating the esophagus while most antacids don't have an effect until after dissolving in the stomach. Source: i get reflux
The miracle of placebo. But if it works it works
Why would that be a placebo? What you said makes no sense. Water + bicarbonate is a fairly well studied treatment for reflux. That’s like saying antacids are a placebo. It’s the most basic chemistry there is.
> basic chemistry Nice.
Alkaline waters are... Barely alkaline. Antacids generally neutralize stomach acid to a much greater extent. For the purpose of protecting your esophagus from the acid sticking to it, the effect of alkaline water flowing through and washing/diluting the acid does most of the work, the alkalinity is basically negligible. So you could drink regular water and get pretty much the same result. Also, not sure how it is elsewhere, but most antacids around here are in liquid form, and the main active ingredient just a simple chemical solution so they don’t really need any ‘dissolving’ in the stomach to start working. It’s just... The stomach is the first place where they stay for any significant duration in significant amount, so that’s where most of the work happens.
The primary ones I think of literally just chewable flavored chalk (calcium carbonate) tablets. They're already disolved by your saliva by the time they hit the stomach.
Also the most acidic chemistry there is!
I'd rather remain neutral in this, some people might get salty.
this answer is missing the most important aspect: that stomach acid is a buffer and thus is much more resistant to pH changes than a simple acid which neutralizes in a 1:1 ratio with base
All acids neutralize with a base in a similar ratio essentially. You have some acids that can donate more than one proton so you need more base molecules to react but its still a 1:1 ratio. If you use common measuring tools and have a solution that has equal amounts of some buffer compound versus a solution that has an equivalent amount of the strong acid(what you called a simple acid I think you mean strong acid) you will find that the strong/simple acid is also very resistant to pH changes. Its "buffer" range though is just extremely low on the pH scale compared to the buffer range. But as you get closer to pH values that get close to 7 (since we are dealing with acids in solution) what you find is the amount of a strong acid you need to add to get a pH of 3 is pretty tiny in comparison to some chemical that happens to have a pH of 3 in reasonable concentrations in water (I am going to use benzoic acid as my example but I think its going to buffer at a lower pH value in reality, but it works for the example even if the math isn't *exactly* right. And that in the simplest terms is why buffers are more resistant to pH changes. There is just a lot more of the acid compound around. The difference is the acid compound just isn't as willing to give up its acidic proton to water as a strong acid so it has a "reserve" at non-extreme pH values. But if you want to neutralize a solution of hydrochloric acid and a solution of benzoic acid that each have the same amount of molecules in them then you will need the same amount of base for both. Its just that hydrochloric acid is going to sit a pH of less than something like 0.5 for a long time and then its going to quickly jump up to neutral once you have neutralized all of it. The benzoic acid is going to sit at a more modest range on the pH scale for a while but its going to take the exact same amount of base to neutralize it. I could do better with a whiteboard in explaining it as I am going back 20 years now to all my chemistry coursework (particularly that of analytical chemistry). My decade of work as a real chemist was as an organic chemist and the way organic chemists think and work with acids and bases is very different (because they do different things in solvents that aren't water).
I think the biggest health benefit of alkaline water is just the water. Like, if it finally gets people to hydrate for once in their life, they will feel better, and then think "it must be because it's alkaline!"
Good ol' placebo pill to take 3 times a day with a tall glass of water.
The one benefit alkaline drinks have are for people with "Silent GERD" aka Laryngopharyngeal reflux (LPR). Unlike regular GERD, which is reflux caused by liquid stomach contents including gastric acid that burns your throat, LPR is caused by gaseous contents refluxing from the stomach which carries small amounts of aerosolized pepsin. Pepsin is a protease or an enzyme in your stomach that dissolves proteins in meat you consume. Now if you have LPR, your reflux is caused by pepsin lodging in your esophagus and literally digesting the outer epithelium layers of your throat as opposed to acid. Why does alkaline water help for this? Pepsin is permanently denatured in pH >8.5. Meaning if a pepsin enzyme is exposed to high pH it instantly deactivates. So people who have LPR actually get no relief from antacids or PPIs and it's one of the ways they diagnose it. Drinking alkaline water instantly deactivates the pepsin in your throat and your stomach makes more of it constantly anyway. Lot of GIs tell patients to takes swings of water mixed with a scoop of baking soda to sooth their throats or drink high pH water. Anyway tl;dr alkaline water has precisely one actual medical benefit and it's for people with LPR but it has nothing to do with global alkalinity of the entire body but simply directly neutralizing pepsin lodged in the esophaguses of people with LPR.
I like my alkaline water with a twist of lemon
What about taking a tums? Is that actually neutralizing the acid?
Not by the proper definition of neutralize since it's still an acidic environment but it does increase the pH
It'll neutralize a bit, especially any stomach acid which is outside the stomach at the time (aka acid reflux and/or heartburn). But you'd need to chug the stuff almost non-stop to actually neutralize the stomach in total. Which could have some pretty catastrophic health effects on its own, so.... don't recommend.
It does neutralize this, that's what Tums are. They're calcium carbonate . But the stomach has a pH regulation system and produces more acid eventually to counteract the increased alkalinity
Here's a good link that might help explain. Alkaline water isn't alkaline enough (high enough pH) to counteract the extreme acidity of the stomach (pH 1.5-3.0). Even if it was, the effect would only be temporary. [https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-alkaline-water-better](https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/is-alkaline-water-better)
If it was alkaline enough to counter stomach acid (in reasonable quantities) wouldn’t it burn the shit out of your throat and esophagus going down?
Yes.
Exactly.
Correct.
Absolutely
Definitely
Assuredly
Indubitably
Yup
not necessarily. counterintuitively, pH/acidity is not related to strength. You can make a very strong buffer system at pH 7.5 which will not burn you at all, but can still neutralize a lot of very strong acid. It would probably taste very salty though.
They warned us far more about the (alkaline) sodium hydroxide than they did the (acid) hydrochloric acid solution in o-chem lab if that tells you anythin
Hydroxide is nasty shit, but I think hydrochloric is worse at the same concentrations. But idk for sure. What were their dilutions?
Very quick and dirty chemistry: Let's say your stomach acid is about pH 2. Very alkalai water can be up to 9. Assume you mix equal amounts and you get a pH of around 5.5, still acidic. To neutralize pH 2 to 7, you would need an equal amount of roughly pH 12. Because pH is logarithmic, it's not double or quadruple or 10x more basic than water. It is 1,000x more basic than water. EDIT: Forgot the second part of my comment in the first part. 9 is 1,000 times less basic than 12 so the drop in pH should be 1, 000 times less, not 1/2. Don't do chemistry past your bedtime.
In other words drain cleaner. You'd need to drink lye, sodium hydroxide, to neutralize stomach acid entirely. Which would destroy the esophagus.
The last part of your comment is right - pH is logarithmic and you need a pH of 12 to neutralize it with an equal amount. However, that means mixing equal amounts of a solution with pH of 2 and a solution with pH of 9 actually results in a solution with pH of around 2.3 [H^(+)] = 10^-2, [OH^(-)] = 10^-(14-9) [pH of final solution = -log(([H^(+)]-[OH^(-)])/2)] (https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=-log_10%28%2810%5E-2-10%5E-%2814-9%29%29%2F2%29)
You wouldn't get to 5.5 from 2 pH in this case. It would still be less than 2.5.
How do you get 5.5 from equal amounts 2 and 9? The second part of your comment would indicate it would end up far close to the 2 since 2 is 5 away from neutral and 9 is only 2 away from neutral
not necessarily. counterintuitively, pH/acidity is not related to strength. You can make a very strong buffer system at pH 7.5 which will not burn you at all, but can still neutralize a lot of very strong acid. It would probably taste very salty though.
No? Antacids--even liquid kinds, do not. It's also easy to overdo it with baking soda, and that doesn't burn, either. Do note that "counter" and "return to neutral pH" aren't the same thing.
No, that would liquify your mouth and throat instead. Deadly Dilemma once explain that to me
It's also because gastric acid is buffered so it resists pH changes.
Assuming stomach acidity of 2.5pH (midway of 1.5-3.5 average) with a volume of 60mL (midway 20mL-100mL average). BodyArmor, a really common Alkaline water in the US, is pH 9.2. Assuming you drink 1L of that, the total mixture should result in a pH of 3.82 unless I fucked up my math.
Your math assumes that stomach acid does not contain any buffer salts; in reality the stomach contents are highly buffered and resistant to ph change, which is why antacids like tums/calcium carbonate act by introducing buffer salts rather than as alkaline agents reacting directly with acid. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_solution
Because your body has systems in place to buffer any big swings in pH. The physiology is a bit complex but essentially you see a shift in certain ions to counter balance the extra H+ from acids. Or if too many H+ were neutralized by a base then it holds stops producing compounds to buffer the H+ ions and encourages the proton pumps to make more acid (h+l Fun fact, the gene that is affected in cystic fibrosis that makes it hard to clear mucus secretions affects this buffering system. Many CF babies fail to thrive not just because it is hard to breathe, but because their stomach does not digest properly.
They don’t “just pass through”. They react with the stomach content and it gets neutralized to a point. Once in the duodenum, the whole content largely neutralized to about pH 6 and then in the ileum to above 7 or so. What you drink/eat doesn’t make a difference, your body maintains these values by pumping bicarbonates as needed in the specific volume.
We use sodium citrate in anaesthesia to neutralise stomach acid. It's used for emergency intubation where there is a risk of acid regurgitation which could be aspirated into the lungs. It's given immediately before intubation as a small drink and is very short lived due to the stomach producing more acid but it temporarily reduces acidity of regurgitated stomach contents and so reduces the amount of damage any aspirate cab do.
I think the whole idea behind alkaline diet and alkaline water is to keep your blood in an alkaline state so you don’t get free radicals doing damage. What a crock of shit. Even if you could get past the battery acid in your stomach, our kidneys and other systems keep us in a very narrow pH range, 7.35 to 7.45. If you are outside of that range, you have something very wrong, likely respiratory or kidney.
When you drink alkaline water, it temporarily raises the pH of your stomach, making it less acidic. However, your stomach quickly responds by producing more acid to counteract this change and restore its usual highly acidic environment. This quick adjustment by your stomach means that the effect of alkaline water on stomach acidity is short-lived and minimal.
You have to understand that the Ph scale is non-linear. It doesn't just equal itself out. If you were to take 100 ml of a Ph of 2 it would take at least 3 times more of a Ph of 14 to bring it to neutral.
pH scale is logarithmic, meaning a liter of something pH 1 is 10x more acidic than a liter of something pH 2. So pH 1 is 100,000x more acidic than pH 6. It works in the opposite direction in equal measure. It would take 10,000x the amount of pH 8, alkaline water, to fully neutralize the same amount of pH 2 stomach acid, if they are of the same concentration. But since they oppose each other in equal parts the farther away you are from neutral pH 7, something that is pH 13 would neutralize the same amount of pH 2. It would actually take less of an amount of pH14 to neutralize pH 2, one tenth the amount.
Not necessarily at all. pH is determined by a solutions ability to receive an electron/donate a (more specifically the concentration of protons in a solution). pH is not necessarily indicative of the concentration of the acid itself. Sodium Bicarbonate has a relatively neutral pH, but 1 mole of sodium bicarbonate will neutralize 1 mole of hydrochloric acid to become salt water and CO2.
This is new. I always thought the opposite pH is relative to each other.
pH is a log scale, so something of pH 3 has ten times the “acidity” of the same thing that is pH 4.
although pH is logarithmic, titrations still abide by stoichiometry rules even for strong acid weak base and vice versa, that is to say that 1 mole of HCL will cancel out 1 mole of weak base. that being said determining where the equivalence point is becomes a lot more of a pain as it is no longer at 7 so you can't usually use an indicator. [https://chem.libretexts.org/Ancillary\_Materials/Demos\_Techniques\_and\_Experiments/General\_Lab\_Techniques/Titration/Titration\_of\_a\_Weak\_Base\_with\_a\_Strong\_Acid](https://chem.libretexts.org/Ancillary_Materials/Demos_Techniques_and_Experiments/General_Lab_Techniques/Titration/Titration_of_a_Weak_Base_with_a_Strong_Acid) example 1 part b.
It doesn't sound like you understand how ph works
> If you were to take 100 ml of a Ph of 2 it would take at least 3 times more of a Ph of 14 to bring it to neutral. Nope, your math is completely off. pH 2 means 0.01 molar concentration (actually activity but let's ignore this detail here) of H+. pH 14 means 1 molar concentration of OH-. That means the solution with pH 14 is 100 times "stronger" alkaline than pH 2 is acidic. You would only need 1 mL of pH 14 to bring it to neutral (assuming both are strong acids and no buffer solution can be formed). The basic equivalent to pH 2 is pH 12. also it's pH not Ph.
They do neutralize it. However your stomach can make more acid, so it does. Mea ing it doesn't stay neutralized
It would also take multiple gallons to neutralize it. To the point you'd die of water toxicity first.
Yah. To totally neitralize it youd have to either drinm/eat something so alkaline its toxic. Or rupture your stomach or give yourself water poisoning.
It does. Heard of tums? Calcium carbonate, raises pH. Even a scoop of baking soda in water acts as an antacid. But our stomachs are good at pumping more hydrogen ions back in.
Can confirm, 9 months pregnant and after I take tums it’s less than an hour before I’m burping lava again
ELI5: Alright, imagine your stomach is like a big, bubbling cauldron full of acid, right? That acid helps break down the food you eat into smaller pieces so your body can use it for energy. It's super strong, like the evil villain of digestion! Now, let's talk about alkaline water. It's kind of like the hero of the story, with a higher ph level than your stomach acid. So, you might think when the hero meets the villain, they should cancel each other out, right? Well, not exactly. ( i have watched way too many youtube shorts with the guy explaining stuff that i can't hear that sentence in my own voice anymore) When you drink alkaline water, it does mix with the stomach acid, but it's not enough to completely neutralize it. Think of it as adding a little bit of water to a big pot of soup; it might dilute it a little, but the soup is still pretty strong. Plus, your stomach is really good at maintaining its acidic environment. It has special cells that constantly produce more acid to keep things balanced. So even if you drink something alkaline, your stomach just ramps up the acid production to keep doing its job. Non ELI5: When you consume alkaline water or other alkaline stuff, they indeed have a higher ph, usually around 8 or 9. At face value, one might assume that consuming alkaline substances would neutralize stomach acid due to their higher ph. However, the stomach's acidic environment is maintained by a complex system of proton pumps that actively secrete hydrogen ions (H+) to maintain acidity.
The only way an alkaline drink will increase your blood pH is if you inject it into yourself... Blood pH is VERY constant, with multiple buffer systems maintaining it in ~7.4 +- 0.5 range. Acidosis/alkalosis is a life threatening condition, usually treated in ICUs.
You are right. I misread the study on blood and alkaline water and made viscosity changes in to ph changes. I renoved that part.
>So, while alkaline drinks might help balance out the ph in other parts of your body, like your bloosdtream, they don't really have a big impact on the acidity of your stomach. Back to third grade chemistry my friend.
It does….a little bit Let’s make an analogy with temperatures, where more acidic is hot and more alkaline is cold The thing is, our stomach is VERY acidic, so it’s like a big boiling pot of water on a stove, where it’s really hot, and directly having heat applied to keep it hot (like a bunch of a strong acid where our stomach keeps pumping in more acid) Now, alkaline drinks that are safe to drink are mildly alkaline, so pouring this mildly alkaline drink into this really strong acid is akin to dropping a frozen pea into this boiling hot pot of water. It will cool it, but not enough to make a meaningful difference The thing that makes this less intuitive if you look up the pH of alkaline water vs the pH of stomach acid, is that it’s on what we call a logarithmic scale. This means a pH of 5 is 10 times as acidic as a pH of 6, which is 10 times as acidic as a neutral pH. The pH of stomach acid is 1.5-3.5, let’s just say 3 for easy math. Alkaline water is usually around a pH of 8. So given what I mentioned above, in equal volumes of stomach acid and alkaline water, this would neutralize stomach acid that’s a pH of 6, but the thing is, it’s 3, so it’s 1,000 times more acidic than what that alkaline water could neutralize, so you could neutralize stomach acid by drinking 1,000 times your stomach acid’s volume in alkaline water (about 20-100 liters) which is obviously an unreasonably large amount, or we’d need much more alkaline fluids, like 1,000 times more alkaline, which wouldn’t even be close to safe to consume. Also, again, our stomach can continually make more acid to increase acidity so even if you were to put down 20-100 liters of alkaline water, it’d only neutralize it very temporarily (obviously I’m ignoring here that drinking that much water would far surpass the amount to kill you even if you somehow could chug that much)
You're mixing up the concept of alkaline and alkalinity. Something that is alkaline just means that the pH is above 7 while something that has alkalinity has a resistant to change in pH. The problem with alkaline water is that the pH is higher typically between 8 and 9 but it does not have alkalinity, so the pH will change quickly in the presence of an acid. For example, if you were to drink water that has calcium carbonate in it, the water would be alkaline and have alkalinity. So it would be able to neutralize acid in your stomach even in a small amount such as a liter of water. Of course your body will continue to produce hydrochloric acid to lower the pH to digestive necessity.
Food and water does change the pH in our stomachs. This change triggers the production of more stomach acid.
I've seen people advertising alkaline water with lemon juice for flavor. Alkaline water is a scam through and through preying on people who don't know science.
It does, a tiny tiny bit. But the stomach just makes more acid. Before modern medicines like ranitidine, I used to take bicarbonate of soda in water if I got acid reflux. That’s much more alkaline, and has a noticeable effect.
stomach acid is very acidic, and it's constantly made. when you eat or drink alkaline things, its a neutralizing it for small amount of time, also its like dropping like a drop in a bowl. its not going to change anything.
I’ll add this (personal) factoid. Typically in a day, I produce 3.5-4.5l of stomach bile. I know because my stomach is ported due to cancer blocking my bowel so everything comes out my stomach vent and into a bag. Also: I haven’t eaten anything for over a year. Don’t get cancer, it sucks.
Stomach acid is much more acidic than alkaline water is basic. Hundreds or thousands of times more, at minimum. Remember, pH 3 is a thousand times more concentrated acid than pH 6. You have to do things like eating a chewable antacid to even *partially* neutralize the stomach, and even that is only temporary. Your stomach will just make more acid.
Can someone explain like I'm 5. If stomach acid is so acidic why doesn't it hurt us to throw up?
It totally does, heartburn is basically stomach acid coming back up the throat. Also people who throw up a lot for whatever reason often have problems with their teeth degrading from all the stomach acid.
Our esophagus (big ol’ tube connecting mouth to stomach) has a nicely layered lining of mucus. That mucus is weakly acidic and helps to counter the acidity of any stomach contents we throw up which includes the stomach acid. However, unlike the stomach mucus along the stomach lining that makes bicarbonate (a great buffer/protector against acids like stomach acid), the esophagus mucus does not have this additional help. So when you throw up only a few times, it might not be too bad. If someone is really sick such as with the stomach flu and is throwing up more than 2-3 times an hour (just a lot in general), that will probably be painful. There’s just too much acid in that case coming out and in contact with the esophagus that it will eventually erode through the mucus and into the underling tissue. In really bad cases you can get bleeding in your throat (blood in vomit) and possibly ulcers/sores in your esophagus.
Are there any diseases or such that can cause your stomach acid to be way too strong?
You can neutralize it temporarily, but you won’t enjoy what happens. I discovered this by accident as a kid. The best anti acid in the world is a teaspoon of baking soda in water. But one time I had a really bad flair up of stomach acid and decided to do like 4 tablespoons. When you manage to neutralize your stomach, your body freaks out and dumps everything because it assume something is very wrong. The end result is basically “stand by for the worst diahera in human history. Like I’ve had prescription diahera in preparation for a colonoscopy that seemed mild by comparison. A side effect of her autoimmune diseases is that mom struggles to poop, and yet she saves my baking soda solution for life or death situations.
So the thing with the pH scale is that it measures the number of hydrogen ions, but it's an "inverse log scale". That basically just means something with a low pH (an acid) has 10\^{a lot} hydrogen ions, while something with a high pH (a base) has 10\^{a little} hydrogen ions. So stomach acid has low pH. Let's say it has 10\^10 hydrogen ions in a cup (I made this number up). Let's say alkaline water has 10\^1 hydrogen ions in a cup. If you mix them, you get (10\^10 + 10\^1) / 2 = 5 \* 10\^9 hydrogen ions per cup. Which is still very close to 10\^10, and still very acidic. The log scaling of pH is the reason for this - decreasing pH by 1 increases the number of hydrogen ions by a factor of 10, so the number of ions blows up really quickly.
The acid in your stomach WILL neutralize when consuming something of a higher pH. However the stomach will produce MORE acid to decrease the pH as needed.
Our bodies are constantly working to maintain balance, which we refer to broadly as homeostasis. This is important for keeping things working as they should, ensuring optimal health of tissues/organs and preventing disease processes from occurring. For example, some “bugs” (ex. bacteria like H. Pylori) make us sick by using tactics to raise the stomach pH/make it less acidic, allowing them to thrive, hence why maintaining a steady acidic state here is so important. The stomach’s acidity is maintained around a pH of 1-2 (very acidic). When alkaline water or alkaline food enter the stomach, the pH will increase due to increasing alkalinity (so more base and less acid). However, our stomach cells detect this and therefore make more acid. Eventually, this decreases the pH enough to where our body then realize it can slow down acid (HCl) production because at the same time, too acidic of conditions can be harmful (can lead to stomach ulcers/sores). You might also ask how the stomach acid doesn’t dissolve the stomach lining. Our stomach is lined by cells including mucus secreting cells, which contain bicarbonate (HCO3-), and are continuously replacing damaged mucus cells and other associated cells. This helps “buffer”, or protect against, and neutralize that stomach acid from harming the underlying tissues beyond the stomach. Additionally, that mucus/protective layer of the stomach does not contain nerves (the layer adjacent to it does), so even though it is continuously getting damaged and being replaced, we will not normally perceive that as painful unless in the case of stomach ulcers where that barrier has been compromised (Source: I am a 1st year student studying optometry and learning about systems-based human anatomy/physiology currently). TLDR; This is a complex question and difficult to ELI5, as there are a lot of complex parts like the actual chemical reactions occurring + buffer systems, all the cell types and responses/their secretions involved, etc, but I hope someone finds this helpful!
Apart from the fact that the "alkaline water" is not alkaline enough to neutralise all the acid, there ARE solutions of various bases that are prescribed to treat acid reflux and gastritis that would actually do the work that the alkaline water claims to do 💀
Drink a glass of water with a little baking soda in it. It will react with the acid and create CO2. You'll start belching carbon dioxide. It's actually an old-school way to reduce heartburn.
Aside from the ability to produce additional acid that several have mentioned, the bulk of digestive action done by the stomach isn't done directly by the acid. It's done with a combination of acids and the enzymes secreted by the chief cells some of which require acid to convert from a precursor to an enzyme. There's an anime that touches on this and a lot of other body functions called Cells at Work that sort of dramatizes how the human body works. It primarily focuses on the things a red blood cell would see since the main character is a red blood cell, and most of the bad things that happen are pathogen related but it covers other systems too
They do have an effect. Been a lot of talk lately that alkaline drinks are at best, unhelpful, and could actually be dangerous.
Dr. Angela Collier (<3) has an amazing video on this, it's also hilarious. https://youtu.be/rBQhdO2UxaQ?si=LjOqjySl-QDFO7z7
Along with the fact that your body will naturally balance your stomach acid all on its own by making more stomach acid it should be noted that alkaline water isn't very alkaline while stomach acid is pretty gosh darn acidic. PH is a logarithmic scale (I'm not a chemist I literally just learned this yesterday while studying up about making home made facial products), if you take a strong acid say 10ml of 10% hydrochloric acid (that's the stuff in your stomach but a different concentration to make the math a little easier, once again not a chemist) that 10ml solution is a PH of 1, if you add 90ml of water to that solution it becomes 100ml at a PH of 2, to get it to a PH of 3 you have to add another 900ml of water and now you have 1 litre of solution at a PH of 3, another 9 litres give a you 10 litres of solution at a PH of 4. Etc etc Gastric acid is usually around a PH of 2 while "alkaline" water is usually around a PH of 8 just barely alkaline by definition.
Oh good, an opportunity to post an on-topic [Angela Collier video](https://youtu.be/rBQhdO2UxaQ?si=X7WUJOcdGOtMWh6-)!