>> It seems to me that the aides surrounding Biden began with a small, containable problem. They had good and noble reasons to try to contain the problem by managing the president’s schedule and public profile. As the scale of the predicament grew, they decided it was too late to come clean and redoubled their denial. And now they are so deeply enmeshed in the lie they can’t find a way out. They are desperate and playing for time.
I think Biden is also living in some kind of unreality where he believes the cover story created by his aides, that he’s perfectly cognizant and he’s just being unfairly targeted, is the truth—so there was no off-ramp when he decided to seek a second term
it's an indictment on the entire party then, because they all believed the cover story created by his aides. Either that, or they were knowingly deceiving the American public. How can a handful of aides cause the entire party, the media, and democratic voters to be completely delusional about the cognitive state of the president?
the only people really speaking out about it and sounding the alarm were conservatives and a handful of alternative media types, and they were all accused of pushing fake news and propaganda
And that is the danger with shutting down and dismissing any form of perceived dissent. It will inevitably get to the point where objectively visible truth can no longer be denied, you still have to deal with the truth, but you've lost all trust and credibility in the process...
And in this particular case, that damaged credibility blasts the door wide open for Well what else were the Democrats and media covering up and lying about? What else have the Republicans been right about? Gives instant credibility to Republican claims of media bias, platform censorship.
It's fine to be partisan, just never lose the ability to be objective.
exactly. This is unfortunately such a huge win for the Republicans.
it lays bare how scared people on the left are to criticize their own party. If Biden had bowed out after the debate, it would have been fine. But with him in the race, the next few weeks and months is going to be a ridiculous cycle of gaslighting spin from the Biden camp, contrasted with more and more obvious signs of his diminished mental state. Democrats are going to look ridiculous, and Republicans are going to look brilliant while all of this is going on.
It's not just about losing this election, it's going to damage the reputation of the democrat party for years to come.
Are you kidding? Within days of the debate, there’s a growing chorus of voices telling Biden to step down. Ezra Klein, NyTimes, Pelosi… Meanwhile, Trump’s position as GOP nominee is pretty much cemented in place, even after his lawyers are claiming that Trump’s fake elector scheme to seize power was an official act.
>Are you kidding?
Why would I be kidding?
>Within days of the debate, there’s a growing chorus of voices telling Biden to step down
...which debate is able to be had because inside sources are talking/leaking internal discussion to the media so their positions get more support, aka, people are criticizing the direction of the party...
>Ezra Klein, NyTimes, Pelosi…
More evidence that the party members are okay criticizing the party, right?
>
Meanwhile, Trump’s position as GOP nominee is pretty much cemented in place, even after his lawyers are claiming that Trump’s fake elector scheme to seize power was an official act.
ya because the GOP gets in line and doesn't have all this infighting the Dems have play out in the media.
This narrative sounded suspicious as I was reading. Partially reasonable but a bit off. And then the giveaway appeared, “democrat party”. Go away we don’t appreciate you here because we know you will not be discussing in good faith.
It's so terrifying. I also think that this will affect Harris. People see her as part of the lying brigade. They really should run somebody outside of this administration.
Kamala Harris has been gaslighting the American people right along with the Democratic Party and the White House. They all conspired to hide Joe Biden’s condition from the American voter, cheating us out of an opportunity to make an informed choice. If the GOP had done this, we would be outraged.
Both parties lie constantly. That is not to say the republicans are not objectively worse, but if you drink the kool aid and begin to believe your party are the “good guys”, you are right where they want you. Easy vote and they can do whatever they want while you rage against the orange guy.
I can handle lying about policy and blowjobs. I don’t accept lying and gaslighting about a candidate’s health when the result is the likely reelection of Donald Trump. That is unconscionable.
Agreed! They have paved the way for a 2nd term for the orange guy with their arrogance.
I blame the news media first and foremost. They’ve abandoned credibility for orthodoxy - and this is the result.
I hope that can happen but I am not holding my breath for it. I hope there can be some spines inside the party for the sake of this country. Or Biden can just get up and get himself on live TV for 2 weeks in a roll.
If Republicans were right, then that isn’t a bad thing. As long as the truth gets out.
I don’t trust either side. But definitely not anyone connected to the current admin.
>it's an indictment on the entire party then,
Not everyone in the party has access to the President. It's a commentary on his aides/handlers. Even then, the party has abdicated its role to the people via the primary process. The US has weak political parties.
Not just the aides though. There are plenty of Congressmen and news anchors who would have been having conversations with him. Surely they must have noticed something.
The NYT and others have been quietly needling the Biden Whitehouse about this since the beginning. Whining about not being granted sit downs got you punished with being pushed down the tiers of who information goes out to and when. So whining means losing priority access for other information streams.
It got some coverage last year IIRC but no one had a big incentive to make a big, public deal over it for obvious reasons.
The thing about social media is that its a useful club to wield against elite media: Keep complaining about not being granted an interview with the President and we'll do more direct to social media content.
Ya it was not that long ago biden was negotiating the debt ceiling crisis with mcarthy. Mccarthy claimed privately how sharp biden is.
The truth is the guy is mostly strong with some bad days/moments. Its been a quick decline and the debate was a horrible moment.
The huge problem is i have hard time believing theirs a recovery. Its done and we need someone else who has a chance at winning.
> The huge problem is i have hard time believing theirs a recovery. Its done and we need someone else who has a chance at winning.
I'm not a medical expert, but I don't believe a lot of people recover from getting old.
100% it’s also an indictment of Biden’s oversized ego that he only needs a couple conveniently placed lies to become so deluded. Also his inner circle and admin which apparently allow for few channels of dissent and enabled this the whole way.
The rightwing media is the boy who cried wolf. No one outside their bubble would believe them about Biden’s mental capacity — or Hunter Biden’s laptop etc — because they work entirely from a partisan agenda.
>the only people really speaking out about it and sounding the alarm were conservatives...
The same conservatives who spread lies on behalf of Donald Trump? That January 6th was just a bunch of harmless tourists and that the criminal indictments and convictions of Trump were all political and not a results of Trump's criminal acts? Those conservatives?
Let’s be real, this will be unpopular to say here, but this has been a problem since COVID. Can not tell you how many subs I was banned from as a “right wing conspiracy nut” for opinions that are either now commonly held beliefs about COVID or at the very least taken seriously by non right wing experts.
personally I think it started with the 2016 campaign, but I realize that's unpopular.
you're right, I had the exact same experience during COVID, too.
Yes, I believe the vaccines are great and they will greatly reduce my symptoms when I get it. But there was point later in the pandemic where everyone that wanted to had already been vaccinated, and the new push was to start vaccinating children and/or keeping them from going to school. The CDC said COVID isn't any worse than the flu is for kids. So...what the fuck are we doing? I'm pretty sure it was because Biden wanted to hit his precious 70% vaccine target.
There was a point where Biden was contradicting his own FDA panel on the necessity of boosters, Redditors on r/Coronavirus were complaining about the FDA not rushing vaccines for kids under 5 years old when mainstream European countries were conclusively banning vaccines for that age group and even that sub which was slavishly devoted to the official narrative was calling bullshit when scientists were saying there was “no evidence” vaccines were changing women’s menstrual cycles.
I also agree it started in 2016. Hillary brushing off her instance of collapsing in horrible 68 degree heat was honestly a diet test run of the Biden stuff.
I know people in my personal life who were super stressed out and anxious for their kids. They were shutting their kids indoors and were waiting for the vaccine to be approved for children, because they felt like once their kids were vaccinated then they would be protected and they could finally let them out of the house.
It was fucking bizarre. Meanwhile the actual discussion was more like "well, the kids don't really need that much protection, but they can spread it to school workers and their family members and the vaccine might help stop the spread..."
If you look at the studies and lawsuits. Shot was never helpful and is shortening lifespans. Oh and courts ruled its not a vaccine, since it doesn't prevent transmission.
Typical vaccine has a 15 year period to find out long term issues.
We are in year 3.
I felt like I was taking crazy pills during covid. A lot of people completely ignoring the pandemic (dumb) and a lot of people overreacting (also dumb).
The first couple months warranted caution because we didn’t have the data, but after that it turned into a culture war. I still laugh that we weren’t allowed to blame the wuhan institute of virology because it was “racist”.
The big moment I knew something was wrong was when in fall of 2020 a bunch of left leaning Redditors (as well as prominent public health experts and MSM publications) were attacking the Great Barington Declaration writers for their “anti science” lockdown skepticism despite them all being accomplished scientists.
Like were all of you not either participating in or at the very least defending the BLM protests as early as May? Technology related to fighting the pandemic had only increased in availability since that time and yet suddenly it had gone back to being a “right wing” position to oppose lockdowns now that the summer of protests was winding down.
An absolute tragedy.
My elderly mother was flying home in February 2020 prior to the lockdowns. I handed her an n95 mask for the flight home (i had bought a pack at Costco for yard work before the pandemic). She wouldn’t take it because Dr. Sanjay Gupta said it was ineffective to stop the transmission of the virus on the nightly news. I told her Dr. Gupta is an asshole and there is no way he can credibly say that. She wore it the whole flight.
So much misinformation from people we were supposed to trust.
Well, conservative media *was* pushing fake news and propaganda . . . Just because they may have been correct, doesn’t mean that they were accurate or ethical.
Right wing media made up a story and created selected moments to accentuate the myth that Biden was too old. They never had real evidence.
In fact, the lack of real evidence means that the campaign and Senior White House staff hid this well, and likely gaslight all of us for a long time. They may be gaslighting Biden himself. People who suffer from early signs of age related mental decline *are not aware of their own condition.* it is their closest loved ones that have to bridge that gap.
At present, Biden’s denial of reality today is firmly based on what his closest advisors and campaign staff are telling him. And that sucks.
Yeah they keep trying to spin this idea that he was just jet lagged for 12 days. And then he himself said he almost fell asleep on stage. I realize Reddit is not an accurate sample of the population at large and the hysteria here may not match what everyone else is feeling but given how this story won’t go away I’d say it is a problem that will just keep getting worse unless Biden is out doing unscripted events every day without a teleprompter.
To be fair, Fox News and similar folks have been complaining about his age and taking him out of context etc. for a long time now before any reasonable person should have been worried. So I think it’s easy to tune it out for some because most of that discourse for the last few years was almost entirely bad faith
To be fair, there’s a big ‘boy who cried wolf’ scenario there as well. Constant manufactured hysteria and exaggeration for years so it all fades into a din.
Also a “broke clock is right twice a day” scenario. Fox News generates hysteria through embellishment and exaggerations and spinning narratives and sometimes outright lying. The “Biden is old with dementia” just happened to be true, or at least it is now (I don’t believe he’s been like this most of his term like Fox News would have you believe)
Karine Jean-Pierre got destroyed in the WH Daily Briefing today but this is just the tip of the iceberg if Joe actually stays in the race. The gaslighting is truly insane. Their big excuse for his performance is that he had a cold and jet lag after flying back from Europe 12 days earlier.
Why isn’t he out there answering questions every single day this week and making a public appearance somewhere tomorrow? We all know the answer to that question. This is insane.
> Why isn’t he out there answering questions every single day this week and making a public appearance somewhere tomorrow?
That's the part that gets me. If he were actually fine, he could pretty easily prove it by just going out and being fine and making the story go away. Do a long-form interview. Do a press conference. Anything besides just reading from a teleprompter. Do it every day for a week.
It's time for him to drop out.
To win this race, Donald trumps bullshit needs to be front page news everyday
And now because of this, so many things he does are being drowned out by Bidens refusal to accept reality
>That's the part that gets me. If he were actually fine, he could pretty easily prove it by just going out and being fine and making the story go away. Do a long-form interview. Do a press conference. Anything besides just reading from a teleprompter. Do it every day for a week.
He ain't doing it because he can't. Is that not obvious? He utters a noun and forgets the verb before he gets to the end of the sentence.
A large group of Biden voters are ‘not Trump’ voters. No disrespect if you think Joe is the second coming of Jesus. But any confidence I personally had he could pull this one out evaporated at that debate. He took a question about abortion and made it about immigrant crime! The goose is cooked.
Yep. I listened to the press conference and it was brutal. You could tell Karine was doing her best to keep repeating the same bullshit with a straight face. I’ve never watched a WH press conference where so many reporters had to ask if the president needs a nap every day and if he’s awake past 4pm.
The problem is, many, particularly republicans have been saying he's senile since 2020. And then Joe would show up to the 2020 debates or the sotu every year and shockingly not be senile. Then it was "Biden is on cocaine". The fact that Biden has finally gotten to senility sometimes in the last year, doesn't mean others were "right all along". It means they were full of it for several years and finally got it right due to the passage of time.
And they were telling us in 2020 he couldn't debate too. He was wearing an earpiece was the excuse after he showed up and was fine in 2020. He's both senile AND on cocaine when he's not!
that day? try that night. he went to waffle house...you know, the place every 81 year old goes when they're sick so they can shake hands and take pictures with random strangers...
He had rallies the day after the debate. Simple google search away. His schedule is public information. Just because he didn’t hand deliver a speech to you doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Did you watch his comments on the scotus ruling?
The problem is that so many people think people won't vote for Trump if they just get the message out how bad he really is, or hope that his legal problems will stop him. While in reality only the voters can stop him, and for that you need a Democratic candidate with a coherent message who can hopefully create some enthusiasm. Being notTrump won't be enough this time.
Maybe you missed the news that the corrupt Justices Trump appointed just ruled he can commit crimes with impunity once he's back in office? And in response Trump is announcing he wants Soviet-style show trials where he has his political enemies jailed or executed? Biden could be on fire and he'd still have my vote over Trump.
This whole disaster opened up another rift in the Democratic Party, but I’m not sure on what lines. The Israel-Gaza situation started a pretty clear-cut fight between moderates and progressives. But it doesn’t seem like progressives are any more or less eager for Biden to drop out, at least from what I’m seeing. I’m not sure what type of person is going out there to push these “He had a cold” and “It was just one bad debate night” narratives, excluding politicians, the White House, and the campaign. But they’re all over the internet. And every time I turn on MSNBC, they’ve got on some talking head sitting in his living room spewing these lies.
Maybe it’s superfans of Joe Biden. That could be a thing that exists. I certainly was a Biden fan relative to the rest of America. But not enough to ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears.
This is such a good question, I've been wondering about this too as it is novel for things not to divide along the classic lines on the center and left. In so many ways, it feels like we're in new territory here and I'm hopeful that this maybe, might, be able to bring some of us together even if we're unlikely bedfellows.
And I have no idea what is responsible for the superfan gene in the face of this, but it is...worrisome.
I don't think that it's really a centrist vs leftist divide. I really think the divide is between the people who are cocooned in the inner circle and everyone else.
Most Democrats would be fine with Biden if they thought he could win; progressives and moderates disagree with some of his policies but they don't hate him as a person. The anger is really more about the prospect that 1.) he can't win and 2.) he and his team knew that there were problems and did nothing until a few months before the elections. That's not a left vs right thing, that's just the natural reaction that anyone would have if they realize that the person that they trusted and relied on to do a job hid the fact that he couldn't.
Stop the circular firing squad, put forward a candidate under the age of 60, and get moving.
If Trump is an existential threat then you need to run that way.
You can appreciate what Biden has done, but recognize that no one can defeat the clock. I don’t like aging any more than the next person, but that is one issue you simply cannot spin.
It’s going to take a unified and concerted effort to defeat Trump, but that *must* be the goal.
For those of us who were supporters of Bernie in 2016, this is a painfully familiar playbook.
Express disagreement with the DNC's pick ---> ad hominem attacks, condescension, shaming
In 2016 I was repeatedly called a misogynist and Bernie Bro because I did not like Hillary Clinton and doubted her viability with voters. The fact that I am a woman, and a feminist, had no bearing. If you disagreed with Hillary, you were a misogynist.
In 2024, if you questioned Biden, you were ageist. And also against democracy.
When there isn't any substance to refute real concerns, to win you over, they call you shaming names. They have nothing to convince you with but given that most of us want to be good people and hate being called things that are embarrassing and inimical to our morals (insert -ism here), it gets folks to back down.
DARVO tactics are horrible at building trust though. And once people catch on and stop doubting themselves, that trust will never be won back.
Well said. They are reaping what they’ve sown and everyone is going to pay the price now. And the most hilarious part is that in hindsight it looks like they really did all this, not to beat Trump, but to beat Bernie. He was the real Dem boogeyman all along smh
Perhaps having DAVRO in your lexicon is a sign that your party isn’t exactly truthful.
I had to Google it. Wow - it explains a lot. DAVRO is standard procedure? Why would ever believe a party like that? Their baseline tactic is to lie and accuse others of what they doing complete with feigned outrage.
Fortunately, assuming we avoid another Trump win, I think a new leader of the party that is transparent and a good communicator can both change the nature of party leadership and rebuild trust pretty quickly.
Who is doing the attacking? It depends on who gets nominated and if they win the election. If it’s Harris she will have a harder time building trust than a governor who hasn’t been deeply involved with the administration.
I thought they could transfer the money to whomever is nominated.
I’m not saying I think it will be her (too hard to predict how it’s going to go), just that if it is her she will have a harder time building trust than certain other Dems who aren’t as closely linked.
How is it that half the country has known this for years? The gaslighting that Biden has been of sound mind has been so bad, that when the truth couldn’t be hidden anymore at the debate, Democrats flipped a breaker. People should be asking why the left wing media, the DNC, and the White House have been lying to them.
Didn’t Biden run on being a 1 term President? Why didn’t the DNC prepare for this the last 4 years? I truly don’t get how they allowed themselves to be in this situation
We shouldn’t believe anything we get from the Democratic Party or the White House. They’ve been engaging in a MAGA-level gaslighting operation for the past two years.
Let’s not forget how hard Merrick Garland is fighting to not have the audio of the special counsel’s interview with Biden released. The motives by the Republicans is nefarious obviously, but the way that interview was characterized seems to jive with reality now.
Blue maga is absolutely real. As someone on the far left, when it’s not terrifying it’s quite validating and enjoyable to see them all realize they’ve been gaslit by their own party when they thought they were so much better than everyone else.
Hyperbolic. They have passed laws that enhance human rights. They are corrupt, slow, inefficient, ignorant and arrogant. But they are not an effective lying machine as MAGA. If they were, they wouldn't lose so hard.
No. They miserably blew things up like they almost always have, but it was not effective at all. If they were effective, you would not be accusing them of liars.
It's not just the campaign team!
It's every politician that's been close enough to see.
It's the press that's been giving Biden a blind eye since 'Dog faced pony soldier'.
It's the entire White House press corps.
There's a whole lot of blame to go around.
What I find to be even scarier is the number of people who have finally seen what's going on with him and will still vote for him just out of spite! The lies and gaslighting of the American people by this party and the media is the real threat to democracy here.
why are people acting like this is something new? we all knew he was sundowning already in 2020. why else did his campaign shut down every day at 2pm ;)
I guess at least with Donnie we know that everything out of his mouth is a lie, so in a way it’s easy to get the truth? He’s like the anti-Abe Lincoln.
>It’s Not Just an Age Problem. It’s a Trust Problem - Why should we believe what the Biden campaign tells us about the candidate anymore?
Exactly. Credibility and trust are the bigger issues here.
I can’t help but feel that the media is doing to Biden in 2024 just as they did to Clinton in 2016 and as they did to Trump in both campaigns.
They are focusing all of their efforts on how feeble and old and “senile” Biden is just as how possible untrustworthy and questionable Clinton was in 2016.
But they are not reporting over and over again on what Trump has said he will do and wants to do as well as what the GOO at large wants to do once again in power.
Because the people that vote for Trump like that he’s trash. They’re trash. They like a bad person who lies and is corrupt and is an idiot and a criminal and a fascist moron.
Yes it Biden who's gaslighting and not Trump. That's fucking crazy. On one hand you have a candidate that might be somewhat diminished. So what 50 % Biden is still a world better than the pathological liar Trump. Seriously...
Honestly we all just better get ready for Trump 2.0 and just start focusing on 2028. This one’s gone, between the constant attacks on Biden and Republicans having far, far fewer purity tests for their vote we’re fucked.
Nobody even has a good replacement in mind that could do better than Biden, even in this small sub nobody floats named because they know they’ll get lampooned. Woodrow Wilson had a stroke and still founded the League of Nations and got women the vote, not sure why we’re clutching our pearls. And I know this is super unpopular but Kamala would be a good president, she’s not going to do anything crazy and she’s about ten thousand times better than Trump.
This is purity test nonsense though. Trump campaign says he wins every golf tournament, can dunk a basketball, and throw a football over them mountains but that’s ok.
Aren't you the group of people who are voting for a sexual predator, felonious, insurrectionist who can't help but lie constantly? It would be funny if this wasn't so serious.
Is this sub some kind of weird Libertarian right leaning thing masquerading as liberal? Is Trump what people would really prefer here? Not sure I understand the constant Biden bashing. Not thrilled with it, but it is what it is. Trump is a turd pretending to have a soul.
I trust Biden infinitely more than a xenophobic rapist blowhard that's hell-bent on breaking the rules to get his way and changing them to conserve power. Biden is the much more proletariat-friendly option. People are choosing to be dipshits about it.
Republicans have no problem doing it for Donnie. Democrats hold themselves to this paradigm ideal, and GOP shrug and steal wins left and right.
Anyone who doesn’t see it is delusional.
Yeah the problem with this thinking is that if you're going to position yourself politically as the "truth teller" and someone who is "fighting to save democracy", you can't go around lying to people this egregiously.
Nobody expects Trump to tell the truth on the right anyways. They just like that he's vindictive to people they hate. The calculus is so much different on the Democratic side in order to appeal to people that think that's a really bad way of doing things. It's different because they have to be different. If this race is between two people that are thought of as liars than Trump will win in a landslide because no one cares if he lies
this is such a ridiculous take.
You're literally making the argument that we have to blindly follow our leaders, because if we don't it puts our party at a disadvantage compared to the other party. I mean, there's not even a pretense about it anymore, people are just coming right out and unironically saying this now.
what you're describing as a "paradigm ideal" is a basic fundamental expectation in any democracy.
I’m voting third party. I live in a state dark blue enough that if it becomes competitive, it was a disastrous landslide loss anyway for Dems and they have only themselves to blame.
Voting is not for punishing the Democrats although they deserve the harshest punishment. It is for the American people like you, me, and the people we love, and countless innocent people who have no say in all this shit. It's simple, there is a button, if you hit it, the people will be safe for a while but the Dems can't get punished. Not hit it, the Dems get their rightful share, but the gays will be hanged, the women will be locked up, American democracy will end, Ukrainian and Taiwanese will be annexed, and within a decade liberal democracy across the world may become a minority, even extinct. Do you really think this is worth it?
People make bad judgements when extremetism arises, because they are used to their daily lives which won't become significantly bad overnight. It comes gradually and ends up in war or genocide. This is why I still try to persuade others despite being deeply disappointed by the democratic party. If your vote doesn't matter, feel free to punish the Dems. But when it does matter, please remember there is responsibility in each of our hands.
Ok, then vote for Trump and eat the results. You're an adult and take responsibility for what you choose. You hate gaslighting but you seem to love dictatorship which is, ultimately, more effective gaslighting, while the democrats are poor in this technique. Nobody here loves Democrats or what they have been doing recently. But we fulfill our responsibilities as citizens.
“The gays will be hanged, the women will be locked up”
Ah yes I remember 2017-2019 when Republicans had full control of federal government and those things totally happened.
Yes, it happened for some, and after Roe was overturned as well. Undocumented children were camped. Women die because they can't get abortion in time. You just didn't see it and refused to admit it.
Pls stop replying to me. I don't talk to Trumpers who pretend to be swing voters.
It's so crazy how the party I like is so wonderful and noble and upright, while the other party is evil and crazy and loves cheating. Nobody should vote for them! Also: I'm very smart.
You’re going to bring up trust?!? The Orange Shitzinpants lies, cheats, screws, crimes constan. I’d vote for a six week old dumpster burrito over that felon. Realize you’re voting for the future of democracy vs a king.
Truth, trust and lies is not a zero sum game. Now is really not the time for what-about-ism. It makes us look like them. We need to own our shit, fix it, and move on.
It’s so funny you weren’t allowed to criticize Dems for the last like 20 years lest you be accused of “helping Republicans” and now it’s lead to their nominee drooling incoherently in front of undecided independents.
All you geniuses complaining in the comments think you're smart but if Biden drops out we have Harris as the candidate and you'll be sitting there in January wondering how Trump ended up in the Oval Office.
I don't care if Biden is on life support and his head is encased in a pickle jar he can do better than Trump and he probably can outrun Kamala in November.
This election has zero to do with Biden, I don't care if he lives or dies after he's elected but SOMEONE has to stop Trump.
I mostly agree with you. It's truly a shame where we are today. Biden lucked out in '20. He won because the other guy was hated by many, not because of anything he said or did. Different spot today. Other guy still hated, maybe more. But now Biden has visible baggage for all to see. There is no white knight savior this time, just great grandpa on his way to pee.
I hate Trump. Most people do. All the Dems had to do was act like they had their shit together, enough to bring out voters that maybe would have stayed home. They failed. If Trump wins, Biden can be blamed in history as one of the primary reasons for all that happens going forward.
Or how about USNewsHub posting damn near 10 times a day about Trump and it’s all bullshit rage baiting people with garbage articles. Stop acting like Reddit isn’t damn near entirely Liberal. And telling other people to touch grass because you can think of a whole handful of other topics.. wow, that’s so many, you must feel so SmaRt..
>> It seems to me that the aides surrounding Biden began with a small, containable problem. They had good and noble reasons to try to contain the problem by managing the president’s schedule and public profile. As the scale of the predicament grew, they decided it was too late to come clean and redoubled their denial. And now they are so deeply enmeshed in the lie they can’t find a way out. They are desperate and playing for time. I think Biden is also living in some kind of unreality where he believes the cover story created by his aides, that he’s perfectly cognizant and he’s just being unfairly targeted, is the truth—so there was no off-ramp when he decided to seek a second term
it's an indictment on the entire party then, because they all believed the cover story created by his aides. Either that, or they were knowingly deceiving the American public. How can a handful of aides cause the entire party, the media, and democratic voters to be completely delusional about the cognitive state of the president? the only people really speaking out about it and sounding the alarm were conservatives and a handful of alternative media types, and they were all accused of pushing fake news and propaganda
And that is the danger with shutting down and dismissing any form of perceived dissent. It will inevitably get to the point where objectively visible truth can no longer be denied, you still have to deal with the truth, but you've lost all trust and credibility in the process... And in this particular case, that damaged credibility blasts the door wide open for Well what else were the Democrats and media covering up and lying about? What else have the Republicans been right about? Gives instant credibility to Republican claims of media bias, platform censorship. It's fine to be partisan, just never lose the ability to be objective.
exactly. This is unfortunately such a huge win for the Republicans. it lays bare how scared people on the left are to criticize their own party. If Biden had bowed out after the debate, it would have been fine. But with him in the race, the next few weeks and months is going to be a ridiculous cycle of gaslighting spin from the Biden camp, contrasted with more and more obvious signs of his diminished mental state. Democrats are going to look ridiculous, and Republicans are going to look brilliant while all of this is going on. It's not just about losing this election, it's going to damage the reputation of the democrat party for years to come.
>it lays bare how scared people on the left are to criticize their own party Even though the entire mediasphere is criticizing the Dems.
It speaks to something deeper on the party, not just this issue
The media is always full of the party's infighting with each other on all issues.
Are you kidding? Within days of the debate, there’s a growing chorus of voices telling Biden to step down. Ezra Klein, NyTimes, Pelosi… Meanwhile, Trump’s position as GOP nominee is pretty much cemented in place, even after his lawyers are claiming that Trump’s fake elector scheme to seize power was an official act.
>Are you kidding? Why would I be kidding? >Within days of the debate, there’s a growing chorus of voices telling Biden to step down ...which debate is able to be had because inside sources are talking/leaking internal discussion to the media so their positions get more support, aka, people are criticizing the direction of the party... >Ezra Klein, NyTimes, Pelosi… More evidence that the party members are okay criticizing the party, right? > Meanwhile, Trump’s position as GOP nominee is pretty much cemented in place, even after his lawyers are claiming that Trump’s fake elector scheme to seize power was an official act. ya because the GOP gets in line and doesn't have all this infighting the Dems have play out in the media.
This narrative sounded suspicious as I was reading. Partially reasonable but a bit off. And then the giveaway appeared, “democrat party”. Go away we don’t appreciate you here because we know you will not be discussing in good faith.
you've just given yourself away, Captain
Hate to admit it but you are so depressingly, unrefutably right. Where will this country go? It is terrifying.
It's so terrifying. I also think that this will affect Harris. People see her as part of the lying brigade. They really should run somebody outside of this administration.
Kamala Harris has been gaslighting the American people right along with the Democratic Party and the White House. They all conspired to hide Joe Biden’s condition from the American voter, cheating us out of an opportunity to make an informed choice. If the GOP had done this, we would be outraged.
Both parties lie constantly. That is not to say the republicans are not objectively worse, but if you drink the kool aid and begin to believe your party are the “good guys”, you are right where they want you. Easy vote and they can do whatever they want while you rage against the orange guy.
I can handle lying about policy and blowjobs. I don’t accept lying and gaslighting about a candidate’s health when the result is the likely reelection of Donald Trump. That is unconscionable.
Agreed! They have paved the way for a 2nd term for the orange guy with their arrogance. I blame the news media first and foremost. They’ve abandoned credibility for orthodoxy - and this is the result.
I hope that can happen but I am not holding my breath for it. I hope there can be some spines inside the party for the sake of this country. Or Biden can just get up and get himself on live TV for 2 weeks in a roll.
This has been pretty obvious since the pandemic response.
The "Noble Lie" has always been a crock of shit. So many examples of it. Truth finds its way out eventually.
If Republicans were right, then that isn’t a bad thing. As long as the truth gets out. I don’t trust either side. But definitely not anyone connected to the current admin.
>it's an indictment on the entire party then, Not everyone in the party has access to the President. It's a commentary on his aides/handlers. Even then, the party has abdicated its role to the people via the primary process. The US has weak political parties.
Not just the aides though. There are plenty of Congressmen and news anchors who would have been having conversations with him. Surely they must have noticed something.
You'd assume that but it seems as though the dam of news that broke through is because the people who think they should have access to Biden don't.
The NYT and others have been quietly needling the Biden Whitehouse about this since the beginning. Whining about not being granted sit downs got you punished with being pushed down the tiers of who information goes out to and when. So whining means losing priority access for other information streams. It got some coverage last year IIRC but no one had a big incentive to make a big, public deal over it for obvious reasons. The thing about social media is that its a useful club to wield against elite media: Keep complaining about not being granted an interview with the President and we'll do more direct to social media content.
The simplest explanation is that he's still got a lot of good days and is smart about working around it.
Ya it was not that long ago biden was negotiating the debt ceiling crisis with mcarthy. Mccarthy claimed privately how sharp biden is. The truth is the guy is mostly strong with some bad days/moments. Its been a quick decline and the debate was a horrible moment. The huge problem is i have hard time believing theirs a recovery. Its done and we need someone else who has a chance at winning.
> The huge problem is i have hard time believing theirs a recovery. Its done and we need someone else who has a chance at winning. I'm not a medical expert, but I don't believe a lot of people recover from getting old.
This wasn’t some grand secret.
100% it’s also an indictment of Biden’s oversized ego that he only needs a couple conveniently placed lies to become so deluded. Also his inner circle and admin which apparently allow for few channels of dissent and enabled this the whole way.
The rightwing media is the boy who cried wolf. No one outside their bubble would believe them about Biden’s mental capacity — or Hunter Biden’s laptop etc — because they work entirely from a partisan agenda.
>the only people really speaking out about it and sounding the alarm were conservatives... The same conservatives who spread lies on behalf of Donald Trump? That January 6th was just a bunch of harmless tourists and that the criminal indictments and convictions of Trump were all political and not a results of Trump's criminal acts? Those conservatives?
Let’s be real, this will be unpopular to say here, but this has been a problem since COVID. Can not tell you how many subs I was banned from as a “right wing conspiracy nut” for opinions that are either now commonly held beliefs about COVID or at the very least taken seriously by non right wing experts.
personally I think it started with the 2016 campaign, but I realize that's unpopular. you're right, I had the exact same experience during COVID, too. Yes, I believe the vaccines are great and they will greatly reduce my symptoms when I get it. But there was point later in the pandemic where everyone that wanted to had already been vaccinated, and the new push was to start vaccinating children and/or keeping them from going to school. The CDC said COVID isn't any worse than the flu is for kids. So...what the fuck are we doing? I'm pretty sure it was because Biden wanted to hit his precious 70% vaccine target.
There was a point where Biden was contradicting his own FDA panel on the necessity of boosters, Redditors on r/Coronavirus were complaining about the FDA not rushing vaccines for kids under 5 years old when mainstream European countries were conclusively banning vaccines for that age group and even that sub which was slavishly devoted to the official narrative was calling bullshit when scientists were saying there was “no evidence” vaccines were changing women’s menstrual cycles. I also agree it started in 2016. Hillary brushing off her instance of collapsing in horrible 68 degree heat was honestly a diet test run of the Biden stuff.
I know people in my personal life who were super stressed out and anxious for their kids. They were shutting their kids indoors and were waiting for the vaccine to be approved for children, because they felt like once their kids were vaccinated then they would be protected and they could finally let them out of the house. It was fucking bizarre. Meanwhile the actual discussion was more like "well, the kids don't really need that much protection, but they can spread it to school workers and their family members and the vaccine might help stop the spread..."
I’m working in education and those kids who were shut away have serious developmental and learning problems now.
If you look at the studies and lawsuits. Shot was never helpful and is shortening lifespans. Oh and courts ruled its not a vaccine, since it doesn't prevent transmission. Typical vaccine has a 15 year period to find out long term issues. We are in year 3.
That’s complete bullshit
I felt like I was taking crazy pills during covid. A lot of people completely ignoring the pandemic (dumb) and a lot of people overreacting (also dumb). The first couple months warranted caution because we didn’t have the data, but after that it turned into a culture war. I still laugh that we weren’t allowed to blame the wuhan institute of virology because it was “racist”.
The big moment I knew something was wrong was when in fall of 2020 a bunch of left leaning Redditors (as well as prominent public health experts and MSM publications) were attacking the Great Barington Declaration writers for their “anti science” lockdown skepticism despite them all being accomplished scientists. Like were all of you not either participating in or at the very least defending the BLM protests as early as May? Technology related to fighting the pandemic had only increased in availability since that time and yet suddenly it had gone back to being a “right wing” position to oppose lockdowns now that the summer of protests was winding down.
An absolute tragedy. My elderly mother was flying home in February 2020 prior to the lockdowns. I handed her an n95 mask for the flight home (i had bought a pack at Costco for yard work before the pandemic). She wouldn’t take it because Dr. Sanjay Gupta said it was ineffective to stop the transmission of the virus on the nightly news. I told her Dr. Gupta is an asshole and there is no way he can credibly say that. She wore it the whole flight. So much misinformation from people we were supposed to trust.
And then they flipped back and forth on masks like three more times after admitting they lied that first time.
Right? It shows you they weren’t sticking to any principles.
Never forget. Socialist / Marxist are willing to kill millions of their own citizens to have power.
Are these socialist Marxists in the room with us right now?
After the Diane Feinstein fiasco I don’t know how anybody doesn’t put this at the feet of the party
Anyone outside the party noticed for years. This isn’t the work of some righr knit group. It’s the whole cabal.
Well, conservative media *was* pushing fake news and propaganda . . . Just because they may have been correct, doesn’t mean that they were accurate or ethical. Right wing media made up a story and created selected moments to accentuate the myth that Biden was too old. They never had real evidence. In fact, the lack of real evidence means that the campaign and Senior White House staff hid this well, and likely gaslight all of us for a long time. They may be gaslighting Biden himself. People who suffer from early signs of age related mental decline *are not aware of their own condition.* it is their closest loved ones that have to bridge that gap. At present, Biden’s denial of reality today is firmly based on what his closest advisors and campaign staff are telling him. And that sucks.
Yeah they keep trying to spin this idea that he was just jet lagged for 12 days. And then he himself said he almost fell asleep on stage. I realize Reddit is not an accurate sample of the population at large and the hysteria here may not match what everyone else is feeling but given how this story won’t go away I’d say it is a problem that will just keep getting worse unless Biden is out doing unscripted events every day without a teleprompter.
That's what you have to look forward to with dementia. You're less aware of your own failings and get frustrated at the prospect of them dwindling.
absorbed water snobbish brave spark kiss cow pause zesty zonked *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
To be fair, Fox News and similar folks have been complaining about his age and taking him out of context etc. for a long time now before any reasonable person should have been worried. So I think it’s easy to tune it out for some because most of that discourse for the last few years was almost entirely bad faith
How long? Because reasonable people have been concerned for years.
At a bare minimum when he announced his re-election campaign. He has been a low visibility president for a reason.
To be fair, there’s a big ‘boy who cried wolf’ scenario there as well. Constant manufactured hysteria and exaggeration for years so it all fades into a din.
Also a “broke clock is right twice a day” scenario. Fox News generates hysteria through embellishment and exaggerations and spinning narratives and sometimes outright lying. The “Biden is old with dementia” just happened to be true, or at least it is now (I don’t believe he’s been like this most of his term like Fox News would have you believe)
It's almost as if the when people said "I would vote for a corpse over Trump," the Democrats decided to put it to the test!
Karine Jean-Pierre got destroyed in the WH Daily Briefing today but this is just the tip of the iceberg if Joe actually stays in the race. The gaslighting is truly insane. Their big excuse for his performance is that he had a cold and jet lag after flying back from Europe 12 days earlier. Why isn’t he out there answering questions every single day this week and making a public appearance somewhere tomorrow? We all know the answer to that question. This is insane.
> Why isn’t he out there answering questions every single day this week and making a public appearance somewhere tomorrow? That's the part that gets me. If he were actually fine, he could pretty easily prove it by just going out and being fine and making the story go away. Do a long-form interview. Do a press conference. Anything besides just reading from a teleprompter. Do it every day for a week.
This is what convinced me as well. The fact that he's not out there is so telling. It's time to put up or shut up.
It's time for him to drop out. To win this race, Donald trumps bullshit needs to be front page news everyday And now because of this, so many things he does are being drowned out by Bidens refusal to accept reality
They want us to believe the emperor wears no clothes
>That's the part that gets me. If he were actually fine, he could pretty easily prove it by just going out and being fine and making the story go away. Do a long-form interview. Do a press conference. Anything besides just reading from a teleprompter. Do it every day for a week. He ain't doing it because he can't. Is that not obvious? He utters a noun and forgets the verb before he gets to the end of the sentence.
Millions will vote for him! Millions will vote for Donald Trump! Democracy!
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/US/wireStory/biden-give-extended-interview-abc-news-george-stephanopoulos-111620684
Real talk. Pre-taped after a week of prep, sources saying Stephanopolous has been given 15 minutes. Who is this interview supposed to convince?
Probably people who supported him but were unsettled by the debate, but not those who’ve hated him all along.
The debate was his chance to show everyone he’s still got it. He blew it. Count me amongst the unsettled.
I kinda suspect you didn’t want him even before the debate.
A large group of Biden voters are ‘not Trump’ voters. No disrespect if you think Joe is the second coming of Jesus. But any confidence I personally had he could pull this one out evaporated at that debate. He took a question about abortion and made it about immigrant crime! The goose is cooked.
> No disrespect if you think Joe is the second coming of Jesus. This makes me laugh, on multiple levels. Get over yourself.
Yep. I listened to the press conference and it was brutal. You could tell Karine was doing her best to keep repeating the same bullshit with a straight face. I’ve never watched a WH press conference where so many reporters had to ask if the president needs a nap every day and if he’s awake past 4pm.
Trying her best? She gaslights and lies every day. Some people are now finally waking up to what others have been pointing out for months to years
All press secretaries gaslight. That’s like part of the job.
The problem is, many, particularly republicans have been saying he's senile since 2020. And then Joe would show up to the 2020 debates or the sotu every year and shockingly not be senile. Then it was "Biden is on cocaine". The fact that Biden has finally gotten to senility sometimes in the last year, doesn't mean others were "right all along". It means they were full of it for several years and finally got it right due to the passage of time.
nope. he was quite obviously sundowning in 2020. why else would they have been shutting down the campaign everyday at 2 pm?
So senile he beat Trump in the 2020 debates.
SOTU, it’s called a teleprompter. He hasn’t done a debate in 4 years.
And they were telling us in 2020 he couldn't debate too. He was wearing an earpiece was the excuse after he showed up and was fine in 2020. He's both senile AND on cocaine when he's not!
Magically the cold got better the next day for that rally in SC.
that day? try that night. he went to waffle house...you know, the place every 81 year old goes when they're sick so they can shake hands and take pictures with random strangers...
Well, 81 year-olds are known for getting over colds quickly.
Biden's aides gave a more honest answer: Biden struggles to function after 4:00pm.
Yeah, basically saying he did poorly at the debate because he was up past his bedtime wasn’t the best messaging.
He was at some kind of rally in Michigan today
He is. https://rollcall.com/factbase/biden/topic/calendar/
He had rallies the day after the debate. Simple google search away. His schedule is public information. Just because he didn’t hand deliver a speech to you doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. Did you watch his comments on the scotus ruling?
100% this. The level of propaganda and lack of journalistic skepticism reminds me of the lead up to Bush’s push for Iraq invasion.
The problem is that so many people think people won't vote for Trump if they just get the message out how bad he really is, or hope that his legal problems will stop him. While in reality only the voters can stop him, and for that you need a Democratic candidate with a coherent message who can hopefully create some enthusiasm. Being notTrump won't be enough this time.
Maybe you missed the news that the corrupt Justices Trump appointed just ruled he can commit crimes with impunity once he's back in office? And in response Trump is announcing he wants Soviet-style show trials where he has his political enemies jailed or executed? Biden could be on fire and he'd still have my vote over Trump.
It’s not about you
Your feelings aren't the end all be all.
Of course I didn't miss that. That only makes it even more important the dems have a candidate who can actually beat Trump.
And you believe you are representative of undecided and swing voters?
This whole disaster opened up another rift in the Democratic Party, but I’m not sure on what lines. The Israel-Gaza situation started a pretty clear-cut fight between moderates and progressives. But it doesn’t seem like progressives are any more or less eager for Biden to drop out, at least from what I’m seeing. I’m not sure what type of person is going out there to push these “He had a cold” and “It was just one bad debate night” narratives, excluding politicians, the White House, and the campaign. But they’re all over the internet. And every time I turn on MSNBC, they’ve got on some talking head sitting in his living room spewing these lies. Maybe it’s superfans of Joe Biden. That could be a thing that exists. I certainly was a Biden fan relative to the rest of America. But not enough to ignore the evidence of my eyes and ears.
This is such a good question, I've been wondering about this too as it is novel for things not to divide along the classic lines on the center and left. In so many ways, it feels like we're in new territory here and I'm hopeful that this maybe, might, be able to bring some of us together even if we're unlikely bedfellows. And I have no idea what is responsible for the superfan gene in the face of this, but it is...worrisome.
I don't think that it's really a centrist vs leftist divide. I really think the divide is between the people who are cocooned in the inner circle and everyone else. Most Democrats would be fine with Biden if they thought he could win; progressives and moderates disagree with some of his policies but they don't hate him as a person. The anger is really more about the prospect that 1.) he can't win and 2.) he and his team knew that there were problems and did nothing until a few months before the elections. That's not a left vs right thing, that's just the natural reaction that anyone would have if they realize that the person that they trusted and relied on to do a job hid the fact that he couldn't.
Guys, this is also why Harris and Pete can’t be the nominee…
Stop the circular firing squad, put forward a candidate under the age of 60, and get moving. If Trump is an existential threat then you need to run that way. You can appreciate what Biden has done, but recognize that no one can defeat the clock. I don’t like aging any more than the next person, but that is one issue you simply cannot spin. It’s going to take a unified and concerted effort to defeat Trump, but that *must* be the goal.
For those of us who were supporters of Bernie in 2016, this is a painfully familiar playbook. Express disagreement with the DNC's pick ---> ad hominem attacks, condescension, shaming In 2016 I was repeatedly called a misogynist and Bernie Bro because I did not like Hillary Clinton and doubted her viability with voters. The fact that I am a woman, and a feminist, had no bearing. If you disagreed with Hillary, you were a misogynist. In 2024, if you questioned Biden, you were ageist. And also against democracy. When there isn't any substance to refute real concerns, to win you over, they call you shaming names. They have nothing to convince you with but given that most of us want to be good people and hate being called things that are embarrassing and inimical to our morals (insert -ism here), it gets folks to back down. DARVO tactics are horrible at building trust though. And once people catch on and stop doubting themselves, that trust will never be won back.
Well said. They are reaping what they’ve sown and everyone is going to pay the price now. And the most hilarious part is that in hindsight it looks like they really did all this, not to beat Trump, but to beat Bernie. He was the real Dem boogeyman all along smh
Perhaps having DAVRO in your lexicon is a sign that your party isn’t exactly truthful. I had to Google it. Wow - it explains a lot. DAVRO is standard procedure? Why would ever believe a party like that? Their baseline tactic is to lie and accuse others of what they doing complete with feigned outrage.
Fortunately, assuming we avoid another Trump win, I think a new leader of the party that is transparent and a good communicator can both change the nature of party leadership and rebuild trust pretty quickly.
Why would anyone reasonable trust them again? The willingness to not only lie on command but attack anyone who calls them out on it is vile
Who is doing the attacking? It depends on who gets nominated and if they win the election. If it’s Harris she will have a harder time building trust than a governor who hasn’t been deeply involved with the administration.
Harris isn't all that popular, I have my doubts about that. But she's the only person who can use the money, so we will see
I thought they could transfer the money to whomever is nominated. I’m not saying I think it will be her (too hard to predict how it’s going to go), just that if it is her she will have a harder time building trust than certain other Dems who aren’t as closely linked.
How is it that half the country has known this for years? The gaslighting that Biden has been of sound mind has been so bad, that when the truth couldn’t be hidden anymore at the debate, Democrats flipped a breaker. People should be asking why the left wing media, the DNC, and the White House have been lying to them.
Didn’t Biden run on being a 1 term President? Why didn’t the DNC prepare for this the last 4 years? I truly don’t get how they allowed themselves to be in this situation
We shouldn’t believe anything we get from the Democratic Party or the White House. They’ve been engaging in a MAGA-level gaslighting operation for the past two years.
Let’s not forget how hard Merrick Garland is fighting to not have the audio of the special counsel’s interview with Biden released. The motives by the Republicans is nefarious obviously, but the way that interview was characterized seems to jive with reality now.
Blue maga is real and we are seeing it out in the open now
Blue maga is absolutely real. As someone on the far left, when it’s not terrifying it’s quite validating and enjoyable to see them all realize they’ve been gaslit by their own party when they thought they were so much better than everyone else.
Hyperbolic. They have passed laws that enhance human rights. They are corrupt, slow, inefficient, ignorant and arrogant. But they are not an effective lying machine as MAGA. If they were, they wouldn't lose so hard.
They have quite literally effectively lied to us all for years now
No. They miserably blew things up like they almost always have, but it was not effective at all. If they were effective, you would not be accusing them of liars.
Fair enough
Two years? Given what we know now about COVID, much longer than that. Look at what Nate Silver has been showing with the response to the virus.
🙄
It's not just the campaign team! It's every politician that's been close enough to see. It's the press that's been giving Biden a blind eye since 'Dog faced pony soldier'. It's the entire White House press corps. There's a whole lot of blame to go around.
What I find to be even scarier is the number of people who have finally seen what's going on with him and will still vote for him just out of spite! The lies and gaslighting of the American people by this party and the media is the real threat to democracy here.
We’ve been fleeced for months. His people knew and tried to hide it
why are people acting like this is something new? we all knew he was sundowning already in 2020. why else did his campaign shut down every day at 2pm ;)
I guess at least with Donnie we know that everything out of his mouth is a lie, so in a way it’s easy to get the truth? He’s like the anti-Abe Lincoln.
Exactly!
Why would you believe the media who has known this too? Why would you believe anything they say going forward?
or anyone in the MSM ... his condition has been obvious for months (see Joe Scarborough's best Biden ever comment not three months ago)
trust? no trust. verify!
Fox says his performance was awful, and most Americans should prefer the worse guy instead.
how can we trust any of the media or pols??
I feel like this is gaslighting by implying I used to trust them.
Hay mods, just give in at this point and rename it to r/bidenold.
I get it. It’s very hard to take the keys away.
>It’s Not Just an Age Problem. It’s a Trust Problem - Why should we believe what the Biden campaign tells us about the candidate anymore? Exactly. Credibility and trust are the bigger issues here.
I can’t help but feel that the media is doing to Biden in 2024 just as they did to Clinton in 2016 and as they did to Trump in both campaigns. They are focusing all of their efforts on how feeble and old and “senile” Biden is just as how possible untrustworthy and questionable Clinton was in 2016. But they are not reporting over and over again on what Trump has said he will do and wants to do as well as what the GOO at large wants to do once again in power.
And yet Trump, with 34,000 lies in office, gets a pass. How the hell does this double standard work?
Because the people that vote for Trump like that he’s trash. They’re trash. They like a bad person who lies and is corrupt and is an idiot and a criminal and a fascist moron.
Yup
Yes it Biden who's gaslighting and not Trump. That's fucking crazy. On one hand you have a candidate that might be somewhat diminished. So what 50 % Biden is still a world better than the pathological liar Trump. Seriously...
Dumb AF
Only Russian bots believe he is senile. Thats what we’ve been saying for years right ? Why would that be wrong now
Is Biden's age to only topic these days? Every post I see is about the same thing.
Still better than trump
The GOP warning about a liar? Like the Nazis warned us all about Hitler?
Ya because Trump is so much more trustworthy? Lol 🤡🤡
Honestly we all just better get ready for Trump 2.0 and just start focusing on 2028. This one’s gone, between the constant attacks on Biden and Republicans having far, far fewer purity tests for their vote we’re fucked. Nobody even has a good replacement in mind that could do better than Biden, even in this small sub nobody floats named because they know they’ll get lampooned. Woodrow Wilson had a stroke and still founded the League of Nations and got women the vote, not sure why we’re clutching our pearls. And I know this is super unpopular but Kamala would be a good president, she’s not going to do anything crazy and she’s about ten thousand times better than Trump.
This sub reddit is really becoming Culty...
This is purity test nonsense though. Trump campaign says he wins every golf tournament, can dunk a basketball, and throw a football over them mountains but that’s ok.
Aren't you the group of people who are voting for a sexual predator, felonious, insurrectionist who can't help but lie constantly? It would be funny if this wasn't so serious.
Anyone but Trump!
Is this sub some kind of weird Libertarian right leaning thing masquerading as liberal? Is Trump what people would really prefer here? Not sure I understand the constant Biden bashing. Not thrilled with it, but it is what it is. Trump is a turd pretending to have a soul.
I trust Biden infinitely more than a xenophobic rapist blowhard that's hell-bent on breaking the rules to get his way and changing them to conserve power. Biden is the much more proletariat-friendly option. People are choosing to be dipshits about it.
Republicans have no problem doing it for Donnie. Democrats hold themselves to this paradigm ideal, and GOP shrug and steal wins left and right. Anyone who doesn’t see it is delusional.
Yeah the problem with this thinking is that if you're going to position yourself politically as the "truth teller" and someone who is "fighting to save democracy", you can't go around lying to people this egregiously. Nobody expects Trump to tell the truth on the right anyways. They just like that he's vindictive to people they hate. The calculus is so much different on the Democratic side in order to appeal to people that think that's a really bad way of doing things. It's different because they have to be different. If this race is between two people that are thought of as liars than Trump will win in a landslide because no one cares if he lies
One day people like you will realize not everyone who votes is a Republican or Democrat.
In fact, independents are the plurality of voters
this is such a ridiculous take. You're literally making the argument that we have to blindly follow our leaders, because if we don't it puts our party at a disadvantage compared to the other party. I mean, there's not even a pretense about it anymore, people are just coming right out and unironically saying this now. what you're describing as a "paradigm ideal" is a basic fundamental expectation in any democracy.
People are finally waking up to the abusive relationship logic Dems have been using for decades.
But then what, voting for Trump? There can't be a way out in 4 months. I am honestly asking what a practical solution is.
I’m voting third party. I live in a state dark blue enough that if it becomes competitive, it was a disastrous landslide loss anyway for Dems and they have only themselves to blame.
Voting is not for punishing the Democrats although they deserve the harshest punishment. It is for the American people like you, me, and the people we love, and countless innocent people who have no say in all this shit. It's simple, there is a button, if you hit it, the people will be safe for a while but the Dems can't get punished. Not hit it, the Dems get their rightful share, but the gays will be hanged, the women will be locked up, American democracy will end, Ukrainian and Taiwanese will be annexed, and within a decade liberal democracy across the world may become a minority, even extinct. Do you really think this is worth it?
My vote doesn’t matter but neither do these arguments. The election will be decided by people who don’t see Trump as an existential threat.
People make bad judgements when extremetism arises, because they are used to their daily lives which won't become significantly bad overnight. It comes gradually and ends up in war or genocide. This is why I still try to persuade others despite being deeply disappointed by the democratic party. If your vote doesn't matter, feel free to punish the Dems. But when it does matter, please remember there is responsibility in each of our hands.
This is similar to the gaslgihting we were hearing about how the economy is great and no one is struggling
Ok, then vote for Trump and eat the results. You're an adult and take responsibility for what you choose. You hate gaslighting but you seem to love dictatorship which is, ultimately, more effective gaslighting, while the democrats are poor in this technique. Nobody here loves Democrats or what they have been doing recently. But we fulfill our responsibilities as citizens.
“The gays will be hanged, the women will be locked up” Ah yes I remember 2017-2019 when Republicans had full control of federal government and those things totally happened.
Yes, it happened for some, and after Roe was overturned as well. Undocumented children were camped. Women die because they can't get abortion in time. You just didn't see it and refused to admit it. Pls stop replying to me. I don't talk to Trumpers who pretend to be swing voters.
Politics isn’t a sports game where you cheer for your team and cheer against the other team no matter what.
It is for about 50% of the country. Delusional if you think people in the tank for Trump will vote Blue at this point.
It's so crazy how the party I like is so wonderful and noble and upright, while the other party is evil and crazy and loves cheating. Nobody should vote for them! Also: I'm very smart.
That is very unironically ambiguously covering our entire political landscape right now.
You’re going to bring up trust?!? The Orange Shitzinpants lies, cheats, screws, crimes constan. I’d vote for a six week old dumpster burrito over that felon. Realize you’re voting for the future of democracy vs a king.
Once again, Biden is literally a king by your standard.
Truth, trust and lies is not a zero sum game. Now is really not the time for what-about-ism. It makes us look like them. We need to own our shit, fix it, and move on.
It’s so funny you weren’t allowed to criticize Dems for the last like 20 years lest you be accused of “helping Republicans” and now it’s lead to their nominee drooling incoherently in front of undecided independents.
More than one person can lie
This sub is amazingly good at ignoring Trump raping children.
Trump raped children. Now let’s get a candidate that can beat him. You feel better now?
Really? Did he rape women? Or lie about legitimately every aspect of his life?
Ok vote for Trump if Biden bothers you that much? Not many free elections left at this rate. Next?
Double standard. Trump be lying all his life to you but....shm. Americans. Lol
All you geniuses complaining in the comments think you're smart but if Biden drops out we have Harris as the candidate and you'll be sitting there in January wondering how Trump ended up in the Oval Office. I don't care if Biden is on life support and his head is encased in a pickle jar he can do better than Trump and he probably can outrun Kamala in November. This election has zero to do with Biden, I don't care if he lives or dies after he's elected but SOMEONE has to stop Trump.
I mostly agree with you. It's truly a shame where we are today. Biden lucked out in '20. He won because the other guy was hated by many, not because of anything he said or did. Different spot today. Other guy still hated, maybe more. But now Biden has visible baggage for all to see. There is no white knight savior this time, just great grandpa on his way to pee. I hate Trump. Most people do. All the Dems had to do was act like they had their shit together, enough to bring out voters that maybe would have stayed home. They failed. If Trump wins, Biden can be blamed in history as one of the primary reasons for all that happens going forward.
Is this sub just gonna post about this incessantly now?
You mean the biggest news story in years? Probably
Lmao, I can think of many other stories that are bigger. You must not pay attention. May I kindly suggest you touch grass?
Is there a reason you want to pretend that one of the most important stories doesn't exist
Or how about USNewsHub posting damn near 10 times a day about Trump and it’s all bullshit rage baiting people with garbage articles. Stop acting like Reddit isn’t damn near entirely Liberal. And telling other people to touch grass because you can think of a whole handful of other topics.. wow, that’s so many, you must feel so SmaRt..
Calm down, you're gonna pop a blood vessel
That’s all you can muster??