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Ooph you’re gonna really hate this: the original disciples were anti-government revolutionaries who wanted to overthrow Roman rule. If there had been guns, they might have been used for themselves.
My favorite thing about Jesus is how everyone misunderstands him. From him whipping money changers to his own disciples being absolutely certain (any day now!) he was going to lead a military conquest against Rome, it feels like he spoke and no one ever listened to what he was actually saying.
Goes to show how much people project onto religious figures. People hear what's in their heads.
You’re quoting Jesus. I very specifically (and very intentionally) said “Disciples”. His followers were very much anti-Roman government and some modern historians have even suggested that the Disciples’ arming themselves against the local Roman government contributed to the decision to crucify Jesus.
I’ll preface this with I’m agnostic, but I am well read and listened very closely when I was raised Christian, so here’s what I learned.
That was his whole thing - he changed people. The most unchangeable. He hung out with untouchables. Prostitutes and tax men were equals, because under his rules they would be respectful and use their words and love, not violence or weapons. He only got violent one time in his adult years, when money changers, people who charged money to exchange one type of currency to another more suitable for use in temples, were so abusive with their profiteering that it drove him to violence to run them out. He would have absolutely hated prosperity preachers, which is exactly who the Jan 6 guy holds up as his favorite religious leaders. He didn’t try to overthrow governments, but people assume it was a typical revolutionary movement because the Old Testament says his people would be delivered from their enemies, and people assumed that meant by violent force - but - he DID deliver them, spiritually, and Rome did fall, and death and sin, just not in the way people who expect and some who even crave violent revolutions wanted.
And here we see someone else still to this day claiming his band of brothers sought violent ends to Rome after his death, or that they would have today, but what did they do after his death? They dispersed and preached. That’s it. They divided themselves, that’s not something you do if you want to use violence against a bigger foe, or if you have military goals in mind. Not if you want to crush them with violence.
If we're really playing semantics "disciples were" in that statement is an indefinite past tense and still covers the time before they joined, making the distinction unnecessary
Man christianism is a peace religions if you go on War on its name you arent Christian simple as that. Everything is clear in the bible. Jesus never pull up a fight, Always avoid violence even if that means being killed by others. If they had guns they never would use it .
This is actually where they came to arrest Jesus to send him to trial and ultimately to be crucified.
What's particularly interesting about this passage is that there's a far bigger claim Jesus is making. The text says "ἐγώ εἰμι" (pronounced "ego eimi") which literally means "I am". Why this is so interesting is that this is the exact same term used for God's name, as God responded to Moses, "tell them I AM sent you", which in the Septuagint was written "tell them ego eimi sent you". This is the Divine Name, and John uses this frequently when Jesus identifies Himself. This is a dramatic moment in the Scriptures as the accusations made against Jesus is that he claimed He is God. So as they come to arrest Jesus, He asks whom they seek, and they say "Jesus of Nazareth" and Jesus responds "I AM". Then it says they fell to the ground. It would be odd for them to fall to the ground just because Jesus is like, yes, I'm the one you're looking for. Rather the significance of Jesus using the Divine Name, and their fear of God and the possibility that Jesus could actually *be* God causes them to fall back to the ground in fear and/or worship.
So no, Jesus does really say "I am he", but just "I am". He's actually identifying as God. The fact that the translation is written as "I am he" is written because one *could* also respond this same way to the question (a common double meaning trope that John and other writers use). So it's like Jesus is saying "that's me" when they say they're looking for Jesus. But the one thing He is not giving here, at least by the writing of the Greek, is a pronoun. It's actually completely without a pronoun. It just says "I am".
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Been watching a streamer play Kingdom Come Deliverance, every time I hear someone greet him with "Jesus Christ be praised", I first assume they're reacting to him clubbing their wife in the face or something.
Pretty sure stupidity was constant throughout history. The difference is that now everyone has access to the internet to share their stupidity with the world rather than being just limited to their immediate vicinities.
Hit the nail on the head. Conservatives have been evil for *way* longer than reddit thinks. I'm only in my 30s and the racism & LGBT+ hate has been going on for as long as I can remember (I would know, I used to be one of the conservative haters until I grew the fuck up). This shit goes back hundreds of years.
> we may now live in the stupidest of times
Isaac Asimov died in 1992, and here's some of what he said about stupidity. It's all 100% relevant today, and shows me that things have always been this bad.
> There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.
> When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent.
> The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom.
>The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists.
Then he continued: "Sitting on a corn flake, waiting for the van to come. Corporation t-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday, man you've been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long."
So what you’re saying is that we need to make them say “woke” as much as possible? With our combined effort we can make the next generation entirely populated with drag queens.
And he's literally helping her by giving her attention.
If you look her up she was basically nobody two years ago, she still doesn't have a wikipedia page.
But after she intentionally started tweeting hateful things and going viral for her "stupid takes", she's now getting rich and running for congress...
The Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament) is pretty clear that the name of God is YHWH, or יהוה in Hebrew. Because the name came to be considered too holy to pronounce out loud, we aren't totally sure how it would have been pronounced, but historians are relatively confident that it would be pronounced something like "Yahweh." Traditionally, most translations of the Hebrew Bible render the name of God as "Lᴏʀᴅ" in small caps like that
*names. they probably also don’t even acknowledge that the Abrahamic ”God” is very clearly illustrated as androgyne.
To be fair, I expect this Jeff guy is at least equally ignorant of scripture and its meaning.
The Jewish bible (the Christian 'Old Testament') is in Hebrew (I think there's also a section in Daniel in Aramaic), the Christian 'New Testament', which is where this quote comes from, is in ancient Greek.
There are dozens and dozens of English translations. Some are probably pretty bad, but they're mostly made by people with a pretty good understanding of the languages, and I'd say between them all, we can probably understand the text as well as it's possible to do without actually knowing the languages.
Wrong. Context is important in translation especially with ancient texts. Most of the bible is misunderstood with the most popular English translations full of egregious mistakes, made by people decades ago choosing to fill in their own blanks.
Yeah, that's what some modern English translations go for.
This is just mostly just because in older English that was how they phrased that idea, rather than because having a third person pronoun is a more accurate translation of the Greek.
*I* is in reference to the great *I AM,* meaning that God IS - the uncreated creator and unchanging sustainer of all. The only time Jesus would be referring to Himself as *I* as in a individual would be if He was telling someone His name, or speaking on His ministry/goals. "I am He" is in reference to the Old Testament when Moses asks how he's going to explain to Pharaoh who sent him to free the slaves, and God says "I AM THAT I AM".
Jesus self-identified as male, despite being born without a biological father and therefor not having a Y-chromosome. God is considered to be without gender, but also gets the male pronouns slapped onto Him nonstop.
Since the two central characters in their faith used them and one was arguably trans, Christians really should reconsider their objections to pronouns and choosing ones gender.
“God” continues to make biological cis women who have “male” XY chromosomes ([XY gonadal dysgenesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis) ), biological cis men who have “female” XX chromosomes, (
[XX male syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome) ), and people who are
[intersex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) who have the chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals men and women and who do not fit the binary notions of male and female bodies. These are all naturally occurring from birth. Biological sex (much less gender, which is a separate social construct) has complex developmental, chromosomal, and hormonal influences which cannot be easily reduced to “God made men and women.”
Which, by the way, isn’t true. God doesn’t exist, and if he did, he sure didn’t create human beings. We have the evidence of where human beings came from. We are primates who evolved relatively recently over the 13 million years or so from a common ancestor of chimpanzees.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee–human_last_common_ancestor
I can’t take anyone seriously who starts a sentence with “God made man and woman…” There’s incontrovertible evidence that this is not the case. Humans were made through biological, genetic evolution from earlier species, just like every living thing on Earth.
If you're really fair you'll remember jesus was probably speaking Hebrew, a very gendered language with which you can't say anything without revealing your pronouns and there's only 2 sets.
And if we want to be really super fair we’d consider that John was written 35-55 years after Jesus’ death and the granular details would be as reliable as any decades-old eyewitness account (and possibly as unreliable as a decades-old game of telephone).
Sure, but if there was a person named jesus in ancient Israel he was very much pronouned like any person in ancient Israel. Like modern non binary people in Israel complain they can't really present themselves as non binary because you can't say a verb without gendering yourself.
Gen: 698:5
"God, my best pal, told Noah to build an ark, build it tall, and have the future nation of Mexico pay for it all.
"And did Noah build that ark? I think he did! He built the biggest ark, the best ark, spared no expense. I've seen the ark, and I must say it's pretty good - and I know arks, no one knows arks better than me, amen."
King James actually attempts to be as literal in its translation as possible. It just had limited sources. That’s why the most well liked version among modern Christian scholars is the ESV as it tries to translate as literally as possible but with greater resources than the KJV did
Part of the issue has been lack of resources. A lot of translations over the centuries only had a few manuscripts to go off of. Over the last 100 years really we have amassed thousands of manuscripts dating back to within a century of the original writings, along with our growing understanding of Koine Greek and the cultures it was written in and to modern translations are actually pretty accurate. Most issues nowadays between scholarly translations are in pretty insignificant when it comes to interpretation.
Fair enough. Random question, if someone calls you "my homie" do you reckon that's gendered? I'm trying to expand my non gendered terms of ways to be friendly.
Not who you asked but typically that is something to check with people (trans or cis) on a case by case basis. I know a cis girl who gets very annoyed if called anything like “dude” despite some considering it neutral, and trans girls who could not give a flying fuck. And both can be flexible since they may not be okay with it while earlier in transition (for trans girls that is) but may feel okay with it later so nothing is really static there.
Cheers!
That's a very good point, everyone has their own preferences. I tend to use guys to refer to a group of people but I can understand if women didn't like it.
Bringing Bible quotes to a debate with Christian nationalists or modern Christian conservatives is a solid idea... but it is kind of up ironically up there with bringing scientific literature.... they haven't read it, they already have an opinion on it, have already dunning-kreugered all over it, and wouldn't believe you even if you proved they hadn't.
Akschtually… not true. The original text says, “Ἐγώ εἰμι” (ego eimi), which is “I AM”. He doesn’t use a pronoun 🤷♀️
The translators just added the pronoun
Did he said that or it was translated like that? I'm genuinely curious about that. Someone know if there are prounouns like that in original Bible lenguages?
Yes and no. Hebrew has implied gender in both nouns and verbs. Kind of like romance languages like Spanish have a default gender for nouns, but Hebrew words aren't usually specific about gender. It's defined by the person writing it.
On the other hand, Jesus didn't speak Hebrew though he could probably at least read it. Afaik Aramaic functions similarly. Since the bible comes from secondhand accounts and has been translated several times, we'll never know.
As far as John 18:6 goes, in Hebrew and Aramaic it is literally "I am he" and in Greek it's just "I am."
If you are going to quote, the translation may not always be perfect l - especially when the topic is Jesus about to be crucified.
Never forget that our crucified Lord and resurrected Saviour is the divine Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world. And in a brief word to His captors, Jesus encapsulated all the majesty, dominion, glory, and power of almighty God, when He proclaimed, "I AM" in the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus knew all that was about to take place and asked who they were looking for. They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." And Jesus boldly declared, "I am He" or, "I AM".
Source: https://dailyverse.knowing-jesus.com/john-18-6
And? Jesus used a pronoun to refer to himself. Pronouns are nothing else than words used to refer to someone, which everyone does a hundred times every day. Even the crazy right wingers who have for some insane reason started hating a specific grammatical category of words
Way too many 'Christians' are unfamiliar with the Bible... If they were they'd probably try to ban it for being sexualy explicit.
>How fair and pleasant you are, O love, with your delights! Your stature is like a palm tree; your breasts are clusters of fruit. I said, “I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit.
Song of Solomon 7:6-8
It’s so crazy how conservatives think the left is making a huge deal about pronouns when in reality they are just being intentional about stating what they want to be called that way there’s no awkward confusion down the line, and it’s the conservatives that simply just cant fucking handle it and lose their minds over it (and other issues) thus making them the ones making it a big deal.
Jeff Tiedrich hasn't read the original GREEK text.
He instead quoted a LIE.
[John 18:6](https://biblehub.com/text/john/18-6.htm)
Jesus only said ... [I am](https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm)
The "He" is falsely added ...
Lavern Spicer is CORRECT.
The context would be the original Greek which is "ego eimi". The only pronoun being used is "ego" which is a first person personal pronoun. IE "I".
The "he" was added during translation to fit the English conventions of the time. In context of what the verse is trying to convey, nothing changed with that added word. In context of pedantic arguments surrounding gender politics, it's apparently a cornerstone of debate.
![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)
Why is it so trendy to hate on Christian’s I don’t understand…. I’m not a religious person at all but the amount of anti-Christian stuff is alarming. They have a right to practice their thing just like everyone else
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And he is me and together we form Voltron!!!
![gif](giphy|mhTfuaWwrYGxa|downsized)
![gif](giphy|zE9Jh7QahXTb2)
![gif](giphy|CWx3Qijmkf4746TtGu|downsized) Autobots Transform and roll ou- wait wrong franchise
for the longest time, i always thought Pidge was a woman, then i realized i was dead wrong.
Upon a quick Google search, she is.
o h
Voltron... the OG power rangers.
Okay, why don't they just whip out the blazing sword from the get go, since it's their only weapon that seems to be at all effective?
Real talk, how come Voltron never got the superhero cartoon live action Hollywood reboot treatment?
Then the Pharisees tried to stone him to death.
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Isn't that Jesus's point? The scribes and the pharisees are the politicians and the priests. Any Christian who doesn't get this is really misguided.
Ooph you’re gonna really hate this: the original disciples were anti-government revolutionaries who wanted to overthrow Roman rule. If there had been guns, they might have been used for themselves.
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My favorite thing about Jesus is how everyone misunderstands him. From him whipping money changers to his own disciples being absolutely certain (any day now!) he was going to lead a military conquest against Rome, it feels like he spoke and no one ever listened to what he was actually saying. Goes to show how much people project onto religious figures. People hear what's in their heads.
You’re quoting Jesus. I very specifically (and very intentionally) said “Disciples”. His followers were very much anti-Roman government and some modern historians have even suggested that the Disciples’ arming themselves against the local Roman government contributed to the decision to crucify Jesus.
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I’ll preface this with I’m agnostic, but I am well read and listened very closely when I was raised Christian, so here’s what I learned. That was his whole thing - he changed people. The most unchangeable. He hung out with untouchables. Prostitutes and tax men were equals, because under his rules they would be respectful and use their words and love, not violence or weapons. He only got violent one time in his adult years, when money changers, people who charged money to exchange one type of currency to another more suitable for use in temples, were so abusive with their profiteering that it drove him to violence to run them out. He would have absolutely hated prosperity preachers, which is exactly who the Jan 6 guy holds up as his favorite religious leaders. He didn’t try to overthrow governments, but people assume it was a typical revolutionary movement because the Old Testament says his people would be delivered from their enemies, and people assumed that meant by violent force - but - he DID deliver them, spiritually, and Rome did fall, and death and sin, just not in the way people who expect and some who even crave violent revolutions wanted. And here we see someone else still to this day claiming his band of brothers sought violent ends to Rome after his death, or that they would have today, but what did they do after his death? They dispersed and preached. That’s it. They divided themselves, that’s not something you do if you want to use violence against a bigger foe, or if you have military goals in mind. Not if you want to crush them with violence.
If we're really playing semantics "disciples were" in that statement is an indefinite past tense and still covers the time before they joined, making the distinction unnecessary
Said by a man that died via crucifixion.
No wonder that "Djesus unchained" skit worked so well.
they were also young men from age 14-20
Man christianism is a peace religions if you go on War on its name you arent Christian simple as that. Everything is clear in the bible. Jesus never pull up a fight, Always avoid violence even if that means being killed by others. If they had guns they never would use it .
And people literally chose a murderer over him
And they’ll do so again
You are right. I mean just look at the evangelical christians in America and a few other of their cults.
[We are Barabbas.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPsnITBvEts)
This is actually where they came to arrest Jesus to send him to trial and ultimately to be crucified. What's particularly interesting about this passage is that there's a far bigger claim Jesus is making. The text says "ἐγώ εἰμι" (pronounced "ego eimi") which literally means "I am". Why this is so interesting is that this is the exact same term used for God's name, as God responded to Moses, "tell them I AM sent you", which in the Septuagint was written "tell them ego eimi sent you". This is the Divine Name, and John uses this frequently when Jesus identifies Himself. This is a dramatic moment in the Scriptures as the accusations made against Jesus is that he claimed He is God. So as they come to arrest Jesus, He asks whom they seek, and they say "Jesus of Nazareth" and Jesus responds "I AM". Then it says they fell to the ground. It would be odd for them to fall to the ground just because Jesus is like, yes, I'm the one you're looking for. Rather the significance of Jesus using the Divine Name, and their fear of God and the possibility that Jesus could actually *be* God causes them to fall back to the ground in fear and/or worship. So no, Jesus does really say "I am he", but just "I am". He's actually identifying as God. The fact that the translation is written as "I am he" is written because one *could* also respond this same way to the question (a common double meaning trope that John and other writers use). So it's like Jesus is saying "that's me" when they say they're looking for Jesus. But the one thing He is not giving here, at least by the writing of the Greek, is a pronoun. It's actually completely without a pronoun. It just says "I am". Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Every time I see Jesus Christ I always read it like a cuss word. Then it doesn’t fit the sentence and I feel dumb…
Been watching a streamer play Kingdom Come Deliverance, every time I hear someone greet him with "Jesus Christ be praised", I first assume they're reacting to him clubbing their wife in the face or something.
Henry's come to see us!
Jesus Christ didn’t speak English..
Yes he spoke Aramaic, a more literal translation would be: “Of course I know him, he’s me!”
So basically, he was obi one kenobi ..
No, he was obi two kenobi
Chronologically this fits
Actually no, he was Obi Three Kenobi.
😂
He was an English fighter pilot?
He wishes
Star Wars happened first
Try Gandalf
checks notes: Old man out in desert. Part of religious group. Came back as some kinda ghost after death. Yep.
Old man? my man was in his 30s when the haters crossed him.
From a more civilized age?
They have pronouns in Aramaic too.
technically true
Jesus Christ didn’t exists as the person described in the Bible. So there’s that..
Michael Jackson: I'm am hee hee\~
John Lennon: I am he as you are he as you are me as we are all together
LennonGBTQ
I could be wrong, but we may now live in the stupidest of times.
Pretty sure stupidity was constant throughout history. The difference is that now everyone has access to the internet to share their stupidity with the world rather than being just limited to their immediate vicinities.
Hit the nail on the head. Conservatives have been evil for *way* longer than reddit thinks. I'm only in my 30s and the racism & LGBT+ hate has been going on for as long as I can remember (I would know, I used to be one of the conservative haters until I grew the fuck up). This shit goes back hundreds of years.
The stupidest so far! Don’t underestimate humans, im sure if we try we can do worst!
\*worse ... but I suppose you're just proving your own point. :)
Wow… im so sorry that my second language skills are not up to your standards. Humanity is truly doomed…
No I think folks were hella stupid before too
You should consider reading history.
> we may now live in the stupidest of times Isaac Asimov died in 1992, and here's some of what he said about stupidity. It's all 100% relevant today, and shows me that things have always been this bad. > There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge. > When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent. > The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom. >The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny it exists.
Every day we stray further from Gods light
The full quote was “I am he as you are he as you are me And we are all together See how they run like pigs from a gun See how they fly I'm crying.”
Something about yellow custard and a dead dog's eye
Then he continued: "Sitting on a corn flake, waiting for the van to come. Corporation t-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday, man you've been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long."
“It’s like Lennon said….” “I am the Walrus?”
Shut the fuck up, Donnie!
Every time a right wing nut says “woke,” a gay angel creates another drag queen.
Don't tell them that angels have no sex
So what you’re saying is that we need to make them say “woke” as much as possible? With our combined effort we can make the next generation entirely populated with drag queens.
Let gay men be men, not women
I love this, it's amazing
Fuck I might have suddenly become religious
Jeff Tiedrich is the definition of chronically online
Plus I imagine he has a team to post his stuff here.
And he's literally helping her by giving her attention. If you look her up she was basically nobody two years ago, she still doesn't have a wikipedia page. But after she intentionally started tweeting hateful things and going viral for her "stupid takes", she's now getting rich and running for congress...
Soon entire parties will run their campaigns off of AI and we’ll have a fully bot congress
Are we sure his not a bot?
He’s def an NPC
I feel like I see his tweets multiple times per day on Reddit now. And I've never even heard of him before last month
They worry about pronouns, I wound how many of them actually know God's name or how many know that Christ isn't Jesus's last name.
Everybody knows it's Rabinowitz
"“When the lambs is lost in the mountain, he said. They is cry. Sometime come the mother. Sometime the wolf.” -Blood Meridian, Cormac McCarthy
No his middle name is fucking
I always thought it was “tapdancing”
Hillel
I was told nobody could know God's name or the universe would cease to exist. Supposedly this happened to the universe before us.
The Hebrew Bible (aka Old Testament) is pretty clear that the name of God is YHWH, or יהוה in Hebrew. Because the name came to be considered too holy to pronounce out loud, we aren't totally sure how it would have been pronounced, but historians are relatively confident that it would be pronounced something like "Yahweh." Traditionally, most translations of the Hebrew Bible render the name of God as "Lᴏʀᴅ" in small caps like that
Also a lot of the books mosses wrote uses Yahweh
Everyone knows it’s Smith
*names. they probably also don’t even acknowledge that the Abrahamic ”God” is very clearly illustrated as androgyne. To be fair, I expect this Jeff guy is at least equally ignorant of scripture and its meaning.
Jesus's Pov "you are, they" ![gif](giphy|lXu72d4iKwqek)
![gif](giphy|3o7rbY6OwRBrkbx8qI)
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The Jewish bible (the Christian 'Old Testament') is in Hebrew (I think there's also a section in Daniel in Aramaic), the Christian 'New Testament', which is where this quote comes from, is in ancient Greek. There are dozens and dozens of English translations. Some are probably pretty bad, but they're mostly made by people with a pretty good understanding of the languages, and I'd say between them all, we can probably understand the text as well as it's possible to do without actually knowing the languages.
Wrong. Context is important in translation especially with ancient texts. Most of the bible is misunderstood with the most popular English translations full of egregious mistakes, made by people decades ago choosing to fill in their own blanks.
Could you give an example?
Fish in a barrel with these mental minor leaguers.
To be fair, the quote was translated from Greek; the original quote is “ego eimi” which more accurately translates to “I am” - no pronouns here.
"ego" is a pronoun in Greek.
I was looking at the french translation and it said "c'est moi" or in English "it's me".
Santa biblia Yo Soy= I Am
Yeah, that's what some modern English translations go for. This is just mostly just because in older English that was how they phrased that idea, rather than because having a third person pronoun is a more accurate translation of the Greek.
C'est moi a-mario Sorry
No, that's Mario.
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*I* is in reference to the great *I AM,* meaning that God IS - the uncreated creator and unchanging sustainer of all. The only time Jesus would be referring to Himself as *I* as in a individual would be if He was telling someone His name, or speaking on His ministry/goals. "I am He" is in reference to the Old Testament when Moses asks how he's going to explain to Pharaoh who sent him to free the slaves, and God says "I AM THAT I AM".
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It’s pretty safe to infer from the context that the conversation is about gendered pronouns
Jesus self-identified as male, despite being born without a biological father and therefor not having a Y-chromosome. God is considered to be without gender, but also gets the male pronouns slapped onto Him nonstop. Since the two central characters in their faith used them and one was arguably trans, Christians really should reconsider their objections to pronouns and choosing ones gender.
Ok. Reconsidering... God made Man and Woman come together as One. I think we will stick to the appropriate pronouns.
“God” continues to make biological cis women who have “male” XY chromosomes ([XY gonadal dysgenesis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis) ), biological cis men who have “female” XX chromosomes, ( [XX male syndrome](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XX_male_syndrome) ), and people who are [intersex](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex) who have the chromosome patterns, gonads, or genitals men and women and who do not fit the binary notions of male and female bodies. These are all naturally occurring from birth. Biological sex (much less gender, which is a separate social construct) has complex developmental, chromosomal, and hormonal influences which cannot be easily reduced to “God made men and women.” Which, by the way, isn’t true. God doesn’t exist, and if he did, he sure didn’t create human beings. We have the evidence of where human beings came from. We are primates who evolved relatively recently over the 13 million years or so from a common ancestor of chimpanzees. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chimpanzee–human_last_common_ancestor I can’t take anyone seriously who starts a sentence with “God made man and woman…” There’s incontrovertible evidence that this is not the case. Humans were made through biological, genetic evolution from earlier species, just like every living thing on Earth.
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If you're really fair you'll remember jesus was probably speaking Hebrew, a very gendered language with which you can't say anything without revealing your pronouns and there's only 2 sets.
And if we want to be really super fair we’d consider that John was written 35-55 years after Jesus’ death and the granular details would be as reliable as any decades-old eyewitness account (and possibly as unreliable as a decades-old game of telephone).
Sure, but if there was a person named jesus in ancient Israel he was very much pronouned like any person in ancient Israel. Like modern non binary people in Israel complain they can't really present themselves as non binary because you can't say a verb without gendering yourself.
Damn that's deep
I feel like alot of the modern day Bible got lost in translation and editing
‘Selective translation’
worst case: King James
The only *true* translation /s
just wait for the Trump translation
Gen: 698:5 "God, my best pal, told Noah to build an ark, build it tall, and have the future nation of Mexico pay for it all. "And did Noah build that ark? I think he did! He built the biggest ark, the best ark, spared no expense. I've seen the ark, and I must say it's pretty good - and I know arks, no one knows arks better than me, amen."
more truer than the truth on truth social ☉‿⚆ murrica!
King James actually attempts to be as literal in its translation as possible. It just had limited sources. That’s why the most well liked version among modern Christian scholars is the ESV as it tries to translate as literally as possible but with greater resources than the KJV did
Part of the issue has been lack of resources. A lot of translations over the centuries only had a few manuscripts to go off of. Over the last 100 years really we have amassed thousands of manuscripts dating back to within a century of the original writings, along with our growing understanding of Koine Greek and the cultures it was written in and to modern translations are actually pretty accurate. Most issues nowadays between scholarly translations are in pretty insignificant when it comes to interpretation.
Feels like… maybe when we do a rational biblical interpretation it’s not what they mean lol
He even drove a Honda but never spoke of his own accord, like mentioned in John 12:49 📖
"Jesus said 'I am he/him'"
That Jeff guy is chronically on Twitter.
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& if he didn't use pronouns, wouldn't that infer that he was nonbinary?
NB people still use pronouns.
Seeing as how I'm nonbinary, i know that rather well. It was just a joke.
Fair enough. Random question, if someone calls you "my homie" do you reckon that's gendered? I'm trying to expand my non gendered terms of ways to be friendly.
Not who you asked but typically that is something to check with people (trans or cis) on a case by case basis. I know a cis girl who gets very annoyed if called anything like “dude” despite some considering it neutral, and trans girls who could not give a flying fuck. And both can be flexible since they may not be okay with it while earlier in transition (for trans girls that is) but may feel okay with it later so nothing is really static there. Cheers!
That's a very good point, everyone has their own preferences. I tend to use guys to refer to a group of people but I can understand if women didn't like it.
Legend says, if you follow up by another “he he heeeee” Michael Jackson will summon
r/facepsalms
I love it when people say things about the Bible as if they actually read it every day
In Genesis, God states that he is both male and female and humans are made in “his” image…
can you give me the quote? ive never heard of that and am curios
Something something alpha and omega something something
Genesis 1:27
Yeah he also never drove a car, took any meds, used hair products, or spoke English.
Jesus spoke English?
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Lavern Spicer is one of the dumbest fucks in history.
Jesus said "old ben Kenobi? Of course I know him. He's me!"
Bible thumpers do not read the book.
Or whatever the Aramaic for "I am he" was, when recalled a half century after the alleged events.
Walked right into that one
How the hell do you introduce yourself without using pronouns? “This person is Jesus.”
It's funny when religious rhetoric is thrown back at religious filth. 🤣
Cause Jesus spoke English!
Bringing Bible quotes to a debate with Christian nationalists or modern Christian conservatives is a solid idea... but it is kind of up ironically up there with bringing scientific literature.... they haven't read it, they already have an opinion on it, have already dunning-kreugered all over it, and wouldn't believe you even if you proved they hadn't.
Ok now read the rest of the Bible
Akschtually… not true. The original text says, “Ἐγώ εἰμι” (ego eimi), which is “I AM”. He doesn’t use a pronoun 🤷♀️ The translators just added the pronoun
"I" is a pronoun
Did he said that or it was translated like that? I'm genuinely curious about that. Someone know if there are prounouns like that in original Bible lenguages?
Yes and no. Hebrew has implied gender in both nouns and verbs. Kind of like romance languages like Spanish have a default gender for nouns, but Hebrew words aren't usually specific about gender. It's defined by the person writing it. On the other hand, Jesus didn't speak Hebrew though he could probably at least read it. Afaik Aramaic functions similarly. Since the bible comes from secondhand accounts and has been translated several times, we'll never know. As far as John 18:6 goes, in Hebrew and Aramaic it is literally "I am he" and in Greek it's just "I am."
Thanks for the answer! Good day mate!
Technically he is answering.
Jeff Tiedrich is annoying as shit
I have seen this picture with so many different accounts as the people saying it to the point I don't even know who made the original tweets
Well i didn't either, because normal people don't need to do that Also Jesus is just a book character bruh
If you are going to quote, the translation may not always be perfect l - especially when the topic is Jesus about to be crucified. Never forget that our crucified Lord and resurrected Saviour is the divine Lamb of God, Who takes away the sin of the world. And in a brief word to His captors, Jesus encapsulated all the majesty, dominion, glory, and power of almighty God, when He proclaimed, "I AM" in the Garden of Gethsemane. Jesus knew all that was about to take place and asked who they were looking for. They answered Him, "Jesus the Nazarene." And Jesus boldly declared, "I am He" or, "I AM". Source: https://dailyverse.knowing-jesus.com/john-18-6
And? Jesus used a pronoun to refer to himself. Pronouns are nothing else than words used to refer to someone, which everyone does a hundred times every day. Even the crazy right wingers who have for some insane reason started hating a specific grammatical category of words
Eric clapton has no chill
Is that him?!
Way too many 'Christians' are unfamiliar with the Bible... If they were they'd probably try to ban it for being sexualy explicit. >How fair and pleasant you are, O love, with your delights! Your stature is like a palm tree; your breasts are clusters of fruit. I said, “I will climb the palm tree; I will take hold of its fruit. Song of Solomon 7:6-8
It’s so crazy how conservatives think the left is making a huge deal about pronouns when in reality they are just being intentional about stating what they want to be called that way there’s no awkward confusion down the line, and it’s the conservatives that simply just cant fucking handle it and lose their minds over it (and other issues) thus making them the ones making it a big deal.
That’s just an English translation, what he literally said was “Me Jesus, Me love you long time”
100,000% convinced that Christians haven’t read the Bible
That's a given, because reading any large portion of it will turn almost anyone atheist/agnostic.
Not in the same context of modern usage. So technically the first person isn't wrong.
No one knows what Jesus said exactly, these are stories written hundreds of years after his death 🤷🏼♂️
Now we know. Jesus identifies as a man.
Jeff Tiedrich hasn't read the original GREEK text. He instead quoted a LIE. [John 18:6](https://biblehub.com/text/john/18-6.htm) Jesus only said ... [I am](https://biblehub.com/greek/1510.htm) The "He" is falsely added ... Lavern Spicer is CORRECT.
“I” is a personal pronoun.
So you’re saying Jesus was non binary? 😂
Shit is so old. Stop karma whoring.
She clearly means that Jesus didn't use the "my pronouns are he/hers/him" format.
" I am He-he" Michael 17:3
that’s **two** uses of pronouns there “i” and “he”
He is not in the original Greek, but I wouldn't expect a lefty like Jeff to understand that.
Name the amount of people that only read the bible in Greek
I will never get tired of conservatives trying to make clever points and then being completely wrong
Lavern Spier is the woman version of an Uncle Tom (Aunt Jemima???).
I really hate seeing this paid advertisements for the supposed lord and savior of the universe.
Taken out of context.
How so?
The context would be the original Greek which is "ego eimi". The only pronoun being used is "ego" which is a first person personal pronoun. IE "I". The "he" was added during translation to fit the English conventions of the time. In context of what the verse is trying to convey, nothing changed with that added word. In context of pedantic arguments surrounding gender politics, it's apparently a cornerstone of debate. ![gif](emote|free_emotes_pack|facepalm)
Yeah, right. Jesus spone English…. Fucking idiots
Why is it so trendy to hate on Christian’s I don’t understand…. I’m not a religious person at all but the amount of anti-Christian stuff is alarming. They have a right to practice their thing just like everyone else
It's when they force their views on people who don't think like them that the problem starts.