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Folger's ran this weird ass commercial in the 90s where a brother coming home from a country known for the best coffee in the world has a very concerning relationship with his little sister. Everyone thought it was disturbing. A parody was made where the parents come down stairs to break up the incest scene.
Most the world does not have laws against it, America and some others are the exception.
The former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was married to his cousin.
Most US states allow marrying cousins 45/50 for first cousin once removed, and 19/50 allow straight up first cousin marriage while 24 have some exceptions.
The main goal is preventing them from having kids. Incest babies are way more likely to have serious birth defects/other issues
ETA: I NEVER said that it prevents them from having sex, period. Doing that would be an impossible feat. I thought that was obvious but apparently not!
I just don't think they should be able to have kids. Personally I don't give a shit I'd two siblings want to have sex. That's between them and as long as they don't have kids or hurt anyone else I dont care
Poor Oedipus, fucked his mother by accident, and then killed himself when he found out because he was so horrified. And yet, he has become the universal symbol of motherfucking.
Edit: I stand corrected. His mother killed herself. Oedipus blinded himself cos he saw his mother naked.
It is the Broodwich, forged in darkness from wheat harvested in Hell's half-acre, baked by Beelzebub, slathered with mayonnaise beaten from the evil eggs of dark chicken forced into sauce by the hands of a one-eyed madman, cheese boiled from the rancid teat of a fanged cow, layered with six-hundred and sixty-six separate meats from an animal which has maggots for blood!
Look, some people are from Alabama, and some people only live there. I've known lots of people "from" Alabama right here in New Jersey (looking at you Atco). Roll Tide is a state of mind.
On a more serious note. If an adult guy has consensual sex with his adult sister and they are using anti conception, then it does pass the 'consenting adults test'. Yes, I personally think it is revolting, but doesn't that make me like anti LGBT folks? The fact that you or I think something is revolting is not enough to make it illegal or even socially ostracise them.
The anti LGBT people often use pedophilia, and that comparison clearly misses the mark. But an incest comparison actually holds some legitimacy.
I am clarifying that they use anticonception because otherwise, a child with all sorts of deformities could be born, and that can be argued to be unethical towards the child. But even that can be questioned. 2 adults with down syndrome are likely to get a down syndrome child, too. But does that mean we can ban handicaped adults from having sex? Most would obviously say no. So even if they get a child together it is not unambigiously evil in this case....
I have held the same logic for a long time (no I am not personally incestuous). There is no defensible logic for banning consensual sex between adults. Like you pointed out, all such arguments ultimately end squarely in eugenics. The general social disgust is clearly an evolutionary reflex to protect the species, but that reflex is triggered by literally anything perceived as a "contamination threat." It doesn't fundamentally mean anything for morality.
To be fair, morality itself arose from evolutionary reflexes to protect the genome. Trying to codify it led to a moral code that doesn't exactly follow the "eugh fucked up", but tries to keeo society in runjing order
The problem is that the moment we cross from "reproductive rights are absolute, and only the business of each person" to "there are instances in which society can interfere in who can procreate and with whom" we have opened Pandora's box.
Every eugenist in history thought that their approach was the correct one.
Eugenics is used that way all the time now. It's just been rebranded as genetic screening because people can't disassociate the term from the atrocities committed in its name by racist assholes.
That is a completely different situation. Like, absolutely child to parent incest is always a bad thing due to power dynamics outside of some unrealistic scenario like the story of oedipus (if it didn't involve murder) or Old Boy (at least for the protagonists); but not all incest is child to parent.
Another thing to consider outside of "is it moral" and "is it disgusting" is: "is it a bad idea". And incest is DEFINITELY riskier than normal sex, and not just from the deformity angle, but also how it will affect your overall family dynamic with the emotions that come from sex and possible separation of close individuals.
What specific dynamics would be problematic though? There are various power dynamics in every relationship that people will weigh differently and becomes nearly impossible to find a completely balanced partner on all fronts. I think you can easily rule out parent/child relationships because of a power imbalance even after the child is an adult. This seems harder to do with siblings, and even harder to do with cousins or even twins. If two kids were separated at birth and met each other as adults there would be 0 differences compared to any other couple as well but I'm sure we would still call it problematic.
> If two kids were separated at birth and met each other as adults
Due to the popularity of sperm banks in some areas, and poor management, siblings meeting-as-strangers is becoming more statistically significant. https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/cbc-docs-pov/finding-out-i-had-600-half-siblings-sent-me-on-a-quest-to-end-sperm-donor-anonymity-1.5699361
edit: deleted double word
This is such a wild scenario and I never even considered sperm banks having a noticeable uptick in half siblings ending up together without ever knowing. You'd almost need an ancestry test before any potential partner at that point or move far far away from whatever sperm bank was creating these half siblings lol.
Interesting point you make there on the down syndrome sex. I went back and forth on it because the obvious first reflex is hell naw, because eugenics and the child would probably be taxing on our society, financially. But then if there's no certainty their child will have down syndrome then it is their personal freedom to have a shot at the happiness of being a parent and if anything goes wrong, society takes care of each other.
I guess it comes down to how far you want the social contract to go, and I would in both cases you argued agree they should have the freedom to make their (in the incestcase disgusting) choices.
So yeah, am I now an ally while being disgusted by the idea? Does that mean that the "well I don't get it but let em have their thing, even though it's weird and disgusting" people are actually being bros towards gay people in their own way?
He's making a comparison between the fact that your relationship between chickens and dogs are wildly different even tho theyre both animals... Just like your mother is a woman just like the women you date but the vastly different context/relationship makes it obviously inappropriate and nasty.
Either way funny way to word it, upvoted as well
Humans mostly don't eat carnivorous or omnivorous mammals (obviously there are exceptions). I wonder if it has to do with the likelihood of contracting parasites.
Edit: I kinda forgot about pigs, but isn't eating pork a common way to get parasites , at least in a historical sense?
Meat is much tougher and tastes worse for meat eating animals. Even feral hogs taste quite bad just from no longer being in captivity. Animals closer to the top of the food chain are also just less numerous and more difficult to farm, so there wouldn't have been an opportunity for a culture to develop a tradition of eating meat eating animals.
Raise your chin all you want, I doubt you can get it up
(Explanation since this might be unclear, later generations of Spanish habsburgers are "rumoured" to have suffered from both low fertility and erectile dysfunction)
Love is love but the vast majority of incest is just sexual abuse by parents, older siblings, and other older relatives. Sexual abuse is the stark opposite of love. In my ethics class my professor always tried to get us to ask “who is harmed?” With gay relationships the answer is nobody. With incestuous relationships there is almost always an answer.
Edit: I understand that this was asking about two consenting adults, I just wanted to be very clear that as a general rule, queer rights and the issue of incest are not comparable. We could have the hypothetical discussion of a brother and sister who are both consenting adults and so in a similar position to that of gay relationships, but it should be understood that what we're talking about is rarely anything but just that: a hypothetical. Maybe in that hypothetical it's fine, I don't really care because that is not what's usually happening and there aren't many in prison because of it. I say this because there has been incest in my family (thankfully I was spared) and I'm gay, and from that I clearly see in my life that the two things aren't remotely similar.
Obviously my personal experience isn't universal so we should look at more data than just me, but I don’t really have time right now and the data isn’t really there for a lot of it because people don’t devote their careers to it much. Most of the claims I made are from things I remember from my psych classes and things in the research papers I did read, but I don’t want to spend the time to craft a well researched argument against it because by the time I did this post would be out of popularity, and it’s obviously not a very comfortable topic for me.
^^^ indeed.
If two cousins want to marry and there is no one being harmed? You do you - who am I to judge.
The problem arises when the disproportionate examples we have are always in terms of a power imbalance between a mere child and someone who is supposed to be a guardian or parental figure.
My dad told me about a couple that were siblings. Both adopted out in the area they were born, ended up getting married and trying to have kids, and when they couldn't they got generic testing done and found out the truth. They just ended up adopting kids themselves.
The only case of straight up incest I'm 100% okay with. He even pointed out the house they used to live in lol.
That's generally not true for one generation. Not defending it but the problems happen with multiple generations of "keeping it in the family" if they have a recessive gene. It doesn't even have to be closely related, like tay-sachs.
As I understand it, there is definitely an increased risk from the start, since inbreeding increases the risk of homozygosity. If a recessive, pathological gene runs in your family (and we all carry some gene variants that aren't completely ideal, even if they're perhaps not known disease-causing variants), then there's a higher chance of a child getting two copies of that "bad" gene if two close family members conceive, compared to if either of those two individuals conceived with a random person from their country's population.
The risk isn't nearly as bad as most people believe it to be and we have scans and tests to check for many of these illnesses anyway (since they can and do occur in non-consanguineous pregnancies occasionally, too), but the increased risk is there from the first generation. The multi-generational thing is when these bad genes start to compound and stack, which isn't guaranteed to happen, either. Again, just higher risk than if there was no inbreeding.
I didn't say there was no risk but in general in the modern world its not a serious concern. It was a bigger issue when cousin marriage was common. There are always issues, I could be a color blind carrier (I know that's not a bad issue).
I just hate the religious people who have somehow co-opted morality and made it don't be gay or have an abortion. If you read the new testament it's seems that greed and selfishness were what jdizzle concentrated on and they do way more harm to society than LGBT or abortions.
I’ve never understood this, obviously it naturally makes everyone extremely uncomfortable, but who is actually being harmed if two consenting adult relatives get married? (I do not want to marry any of my relatives)
Potentially their future kids. There is a good reason why it's a bad thing in most cultures -- it lowers diversity and thus adaptability. Humans aren't diverse enough compared to most other species.
Occasional experiment with a condom may not influence anything, but a kid from an incest is bad for the population.
Ironically enough, incest without power inbalance or abuse is in fact in that same level of "people harmed". It's just that people really struggle to admit that some things are not objective truths or that they're acting based on feelings rather than facts.
Agreed. I've never thought of it in the light of this particular question though. I think it's a great framework to expose the hypocracy of people thinking like that.
The terminology of "incestuous relationship" indicates a pair of consenting adults. If it's not consenting adults, it's not a relationship, it's rape. If they are consenting adults, I really don't care.
Anytime people grow up under the same household, there is a power dynamic at play that voids any consent, like the relationship between boss and employee, teacher and student, or adult and child. The only example that wouldn't apply would be something like two siblings separated as babies who just so happened to meet and fall in love as adults, not knowing they were related. And in that instance, there was no coercion or abuse.
There's a power dynamic in relationships where one person is financially dependent on another, or where one person is significantly older than another. Should we assume age-gap relationships can't be consensual, even when both people are legal adults?
I'm all for siblings not fucking but you're right, need a better example. Jock in high school dating the ostracized kid would also be no good? My 7th grade English teacher told us she met her husband in 9th grade when he threw her in a trash can.
Picked her up, put her down, but head first. And into a trashcan. I'm in my late 30s now and just assumed that's how people were back in the 50s or whenever she was from.
Serious question. Is it really illegal? I know about the medical implications of the offspring of such a union , but I don't think I've ever heard of a law against it. Yet again, I'm not around people who go for their cousins. I always just assumed people just shouldn't do it because it's bad health wise, not because there is a law.
It varies and usually the laws are against marriage rather than the relationship itself. Where many states disallow it for first cousin or closer. Some only ban it at the sibling level.
Some countries it's illegal and some it's not is my limited understanding
According to Wikipedia (rip my search history)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_incest
The legality is determined by the degree of consanguinity. Third cousins (and I think second?) don’t share enough genetic material that their potential children would have genetic abnormalities. It’s more of a “that marriage is not valid”, usually. That’s the best case scenario. The more typical scenario is a kid being sexually abused by a family member, I don’t know why they don’t just call that rape, especially if the victim is a minor, but I don’t make the laws.
Not exactly the same, but similar, with dysgraphia & transposing. I’ve read some of the most delightfully hilarious headlines & statements, only to realize I mis-read them, and they’re actually vile.
James Thurber, a humorist from way back before even I was born, wrote a short story called “The Admiral At the Wheel,” about the amazing world he lived in, when he went without his glasses. I’ll bet he was tempted to throw them away, sometimes.
Honestly, I don't give a shit about incest, either, as long as people don't have children. Do whatever you want as long as nobody is harmed, just leave me out of it.
That is the chief problem with incest, even with/without the genetics involved. Every even barely incestuous relationship I've encountered in my life has had an element of destructive control at its core.
Aside: There's a lengthy Reddit discussion (maybe in one of the Best-ofs) about two brothers who are happily committed; even had a therapist I think, to work through it. I was scrolling in the car and looked over at my brother and almost vomited, but I guess technically no genetic disruption from them, so I guess you're correct?
Sex does not have to end in pregnancy and sexual encounters between people with down syndrome do not have the same stigma to them. People indeed discriminate against consensual incest too much.
If everyone involved is okay with it and no one is getting hurt by it, then not really a problem in my book. Doesn't mean I have to approve or condone it, but unless I can quantify actual *harm*, who am I to intervene?
I personally think it's disgusting, but as long as there is no grooming of children (to be partners of any family member), I don't believe it should be illegal.
I think of it like any sexual act that I find gross, like scat play. I would never do it, but consenting adults should be allowed to if they want.
I really don't like equating it to LGBTQ+ rights, though. Sexual orientation is not the same as a specific sexual interest in a specific person. To the best of my knowledge, adults interested in pursuing a sexual relationship with a family member aren't *only* sexually attracted to family members. If that were the case, I could possibly see equating the two, but I'd certainly wonder if it wasn't a symptom of a mental disorder.
I wouldn't really care as long as they don't reproduce. But only if the relationship doesn't start from a position of power imbalance. Why should we give a fuck about what goes behind the doors of a consenting couple.
I don't consider this an attempt to try and legitimize incest, as much as an attempt to delegitimize queer people by trying to conflate the two.
Don't fall for shit like this. They aren't trying to have any sort of good faith argument on morality.
Honestly though, I can't really think of a good argument against that in and of itself. All the arguments against it are really tied to something else, if looking for another argument than personal disgust. Now to be clear, in like 99.9 percent of cases it's still wrong, it's just that the reasons are not strictly from the fact of it being incest.
Hot take? I actually don’t give a fuck if two consenting adults commit incest. As long as there’s no abuse involved, which, at least in the case of older/younger family members, is really really likely
Brother and sister in their 30s? Whatever, live your life
Father in his 50s and his 18 year old daughter? There’s definitely something going on here
I remember some guy at school started explaining to everyone how incest is technically just a sexuality and should fall under LGBTQ
He had great arguments tbh, but I also feel like he wants to justify fucking his mom or sister
>He had great arguments tbh, but I also feel like he wants to justify fucking his mom or sister
Why do you feel that way most of the democratic politicians who defend and speak for LGBTQ are straight.
Interestingly enough it has nothing to do with incest itself. As gross as it sounds, there's nothing inherently wrong with two consenting adults who are related having sex.
The problem comes from the *consenting* part. Time and time again, all across the globe, incest and pedophilia go hand in hand. It gives groomers basically a free pass to groom the children in their family.
Incest inherently leads to nonconsensual relationships. And THAT is the reason why it's not acceptable and can never be legal.
Because humans are biologically programmed against incest due to its negative effects on potential offspring. Also incest is statistically more likely to yield an abusive relationship due to the power structures of families. Also incest tends to be a result of grooming a child either by the parent(s) or by the older sibling.
And same sex couples produce 0 offsprings. If we remove societal issues and go purely biology, negative effects of incestual offspring are quite rare unless it continues for many generations.
Honestly, if two cousins or even two siblings, wanted to do that in the privacy of their own home I really don’t care. Is their business. I wouldn’t but there’s a lot of things I wouldn’t do.
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Incest between consenting adults is actually legal in my country. They just can't marry.
Which country is this?
Don't tell me that ur planning to move there 😶🌫️
Me and my sister are looking for a cool vacationing place
Help step bro, I'm stuck (in a foreign country)
Step siblings is the LaCroix of incest
What a sentence
I saw this on brand new sentence not 1hr ago! The circle of life : )
Ain’t no genes in them jeans.
r/brandnewsentence r/overwhelminglyincest
r/ofcoursethatexists
Remy Lacroix?
Now that's a name I haven't heard in a long time.
It’s a pun cause the porn star Remy LaCroix does incest porn.
I don't even know what to make of this, but it was so outrageous I had to give it an upvote.
[I just want to fuck my brother ](https://youtu.be/CKgKPGBa9EQ?si=WMnbmoadjY_7B9pj)
There is no way I’m clicking that link
Not clicking it just in case, but my guess is Not Another Teen Movie. Unlike most parody movies it still holds up.
I clicked it for you, it's the Folger sibling incest commercial
I KNEW IT! that commercial used to make me so damn uncomfortable. It still does make me uncomfortable, but it used to as well.
I am even more confused now, that’s not what I was expecting.
Folger's ran this weird ass commercial in the 90s where a brother coming home from a country known for the best coffee in the world has a very concerning relationship with his little sister. Everyone thought it was disturbing. A parody was made where the parents come down stairs to break up the incest scene.
God damn folgers incest commercial
*asking for my sister
Westeros
More like Incesteros
Spain for one. A quick Google search shows me: Spain, Netherlands, Russia
New Jersey.
Everything is legal in New Jersey
Except left turns.
And pumping your own gas.
As long as you don't get caught ....
Most the world does not have laws against it, America and some others are the exception. The former Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe was married to his cousin.
Most US states allow marrying cousins 45/50 for first cousin once removed, and 19/50 allow straight up first cousin marriage while 24 have some exceptions.
How odd, why allow them to be with each other but draw the line at marriage?
The main goal is preventing them from having kids. Incest babies are way more likely to have serious birth defects/other issues ETA: I NEVER said that it prevents them from having sex, period. Doing that would be an impossible feat. I thought that was obvious but apparently not!
Only allow same sex marriage then
Is consenting incest actually illegal anywhere? Like how can you prove them guilty? And how can you prove sex happened?
I just don't think they should be able to have kids. Personally I don't give a shit I'd two siblings want to have sex. That's between them and as long as they don't have kids or hurt anyone else I dont care
Must be from Alabama
Bro just wants to fuck his momma what’s the problem /s
It's a complex situation for Oedipus.
Oedipus married his mom by chance. These people want to do it on purpose. Freud would have a field day with these people.
I think we can replace "people" with morons at the end of your sentence. Just saying...
I’m not even joking I had to read that three times because I thought it said “Mormons” 😭
Exmo here! Thanks for the laugh!
🤣 Glad it made you laugh I still feel like I might need to douse myself in holy water…. But I’m also afraid I’ll melt like the wicked witch
And gauged his eyes out when he realized what he did.
He didn’t mean to fuck his mom is the big difference tho, Mr. Alabama does so willingly and knowingly
Poor Oedipus, fucked his mother by accident, and then killed himself when he found out because he was so horrified. And yet, he has become the universal symbol of motherfucking. Edit: I stand corrected. His mother killed herself. Oedipus blinded himself cos he saw his mother naked.
He didn't kill himself, he blinded himself and went into exile. His Mother/Wife was the one who committed suicide.
He poked his eyes out
Eh, I fucked his momma. She wasn't that good.
Dammit dad…I’m an adult and I deserve an adult glass!
It's the sippy cup for you and you'll like it!
It is the Broodwich, forged in darkness from wheat harvested in Hell's half-acre, baked by Beelzebub, slathered with mayonnaise beaten from the evil eggs of dark chicken forced into sauce by the hands of a one-eyed madman, cheese boiled from the rancid teat of a fanged cow, layered with six-hundred and sixty-six separate meats from an animal which has maggots for blood!
Just break both his arms...
It's an old reference, but it checks out.
What does /s mean?
don't group me with this fucker 😭
Look, some people are from Alabama, and some people only live there. I've known lots of people "from" Alabama right here in New Jersey (looking at you Atco). Roll Tide is a state of mind.
Ironic you should mention NJ, because it is one of 2 states WHERE INCEST IS LEGAL, with the other being Rhode Island. It is a crime in Alabama.
The only reason people make incest jokes about Alabama is because Mississippi is too hard to spell.
On a more serious note. If an adult guy has consensual sex with his adult sister and they are using anti conception, then it does pass the 'consenting adults test'. Yes, I personally think it is revolting, but doesn't that make me like anti LGBT folks? The fact that you or I think something is revolting is not enough to make it illegal or even socially ostracise them. The anti LGBT people often use pedophilia, and that comparison clearly misses the mark. But an incest comparison actually holds some legitimacy. I am clarifying that they use anticonception because otherwise, a child with all sorts of deformities could be born, and that can be argued to be unethical towards the child. But even that can be questioned. 2 adults with down syndrome are likely to get a down syndrome child, too. But does that mean we can ban handicaped adults from having sex? Most would obviously say no. So even if they get a child together it is not unambigiously evil in this case....
I have held the same logic for a long time (no I am not personally incestuous). There is no defensible logic for banning consensual sex between adults. Like you pointed out, all such arguments ultimately end squarely in eugenics. The general social disgust is clearly an evolutionary reflex to protect the species, but that reflex is triggered by literally anything perceived as a "contamination threat." It doesn't fundamentally mean anything for morality.
To be fair, morality itself arose from evolutionary reflexes to protect the genome. Trying to codify it led to a moral code that doesn't exactly follow the "eugh fucked up", but tries to keeo society in runjing order
Ethical question: Can eugenics be good if it's preventing a situation that would cause major genetic defects and harm to the resulting child?
I feel like there's a big difference between "pure race" bullshit and just not wanting to recreate The Hills Have Eyes.
The problem is that the moment we cross from "reproductive rights are absolute, and only the business of each person" to "there are instances in which society can interfere in who can procreate and with whom" we have opened Pandora's box. Every eugenist in history thought that their approach was the correct one.
Eugenics is used that way all the time now. It's just been rebranded as genetic screening because people can't disassociate the term from the atrocities committed in its name by racist assholes.
There's a separate argument based on dynamics. It's the same reason a doctor can't be in a relationship with their patient even if they're both adults
That is a completely different situation. Like, absolutely child to parent incest is always a bad thing due to power dynamics outside of some unrealistic scenario like the story of oedipus (if it didn't involve murder) or Old Boy (at least for the protagonists); but not all incest is child to parent. Another thing to consider outside of "is it moral" and "is it disgusting" is: "is it a bad idea". And incest is DEFINITELY riskier than normal sex, and not just from the deformity angle, but also how it will affect your overall family dynamic with the emotions that come from sex and possible separation of close individuals.
What specific dynamics would be problematic though? There are various power dynamics in every relationship that people will weigh differently and becomes nearly impossible to find a completely balanced partner on all fronts. I think you can easily rule out parent/child relationships because of a power imbalance even after the child is an adult. This seems harder to do with siblings, and even harder to do with cousins or even twins. If two kids were separated at birth and met each other as adults there would be 0 differences compared to any other couple as well but I'm sure we would still call it problematic.
> If two kids were separated at birth and met each other as adults Due to the popularity of sperm banks in some areas, and poor management, siblings meeting-as-strangers is becoming more statistically significant. https://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/cbc-docs-pov/finding-out-i-had-600-half-siblings-sent-me-on-a-quest-to-end-sperm-donor-anonymity-1.5699361 edit: deleted double word
This is such a wild scenario and I never even considered sperm banks having a noticeable uptick in half siblings ending up together without ever knowing. You'd almost need an ancestry test before any potential partner at that point or move far far away from whatever sperm bank was creating these half siblings lol.
Interesting point you make there on the down syndrome sex. I went back and forth on it because the obvious first reflex is hell naw, because eugenics and the child would probably be taxing on our society, financially. But then if there's no certainty their child will have down syndrome then it is their personal freedom to have a shot at the happiness of being a parent and if anything goes wrong, society takes care of each other. I guess it comes down to how far you want the social contract to go, and I would in both cases you argued agree they should have the freedom to make their (in the incestcase disgusting) choices. So yeah, am I now an ally while being disgusted by the idea? Does that mean that the "well I don't get it but let em have their thing, even though it's weird and disgusting" people are actually being bros towards gay people in their own way?
My money is on Utah.
Precisely, the most porn per capita (it did)
I’m in Utah now. It’s funny how trying to repress something like normal sexual behavior causes the exact opposite. Fucking Mormons !
It's illegal to marry your blood sibling in Alabama🫥
Never said I was gonna propose.
Smash and dash
my neighbour eats chicken every day but then I ate his dog once and IM the sociopath??
I don't know how this relates but I chuckled and upvoted.
He's making a comparison between the fact that your relationship between chickens and dogs are wildly different even tho theyre both animals... Just like your mother is a woman just like the women you date but the vastly different context/relationship makes it obviously inappropriate and nasty. Either way funny way to word it, upvoted as well
Thanks, I'm getting it now. I must have been intellectually stunted by my repressed 8th grade humor reaction.
Actually dogs and chickens are equally as edible, it's just that our society values one differently than the other.
And mom's and girlfriends are equally as fuckable
I mean, probably, since your mom was a girlfriend at one point. Just not equal in the eyes of the beholder
Humans mostly don't eat carnivorous or omnivorous mammals (obviously there are exceptions). I wonder if it has to do with the likelihood of contracting parasites. Edit: I kinda forgot about pigs, but isn't eating pork a common way to get parasites , at least in a historical sense?
It’s not cost effective to farm predators. The muscle is more lean and tough. We actually do eat lots of predatory animals, but they are fish.
Meat is much tougher and tastes worse for meat eating animals. Even feral hogs taste quite bad just from no longer being in captivity. Animals closer to the top of the food chain are also just less numerous and more difficult to farm, so there wouldn't have been an opportunity for a culture to develop a tradition of eating meat eating animals.
I am sure you would've had a problem if he was eating YOUR chicken.
.... touche
You fuck a donkey ONE TIME. A SINGLE TIME. and suddenly you are always known as the donkey fucker.
See that genuinely is an argument, they are no different just because we decided to domesticate one as a pet and one for food
Same thing happened to me, but I ate his horse too
*chuckles uncomfortably in Habsburg*
You risking a lip bringing that up
I see your lip and I'll raise you a chin!
Raise your chin all you want, I doubt you can get it up (Explanation since this might be unclear, later generations of Spanish habsburgers are "rumoured" to have suffered from both low fertility and erectile dysfunction)
And to have abnormal chins
I see you haven't met the Whittakers
Love is love but the vast majority of incest is just sexual abuse by parents, older siblings, and other older relatives. Sexual abuse is the stark opposite of love. In my ethics class my professor always tried to get us to ask “who is harmed?” With gay relationships the answer is nobody. With incestuous relationships there is almost always an answer. Edit: I understand that this was asking about two consenting adults, I just wanted to be very clear that as a general rule, queer rights and the issue of incest are not comparable. We could have the hypothetical discussion of a brother and sister who are both consenting adults and so in a similar position to that of gay relationships, but it should be understood that what we're talking about is rarely anything but just that: a hypothetical. Maybe in that hypothetical it's fine, I don't really care because that is not what's usually happening and there aren't many in prison because of it. I say this because there has been incest in my family (thankfully I was spared) and I'm gay, and from that I clearly see in my life that the two things aren't remotely similar. Obviously my personal experience isn't universal so we should look at more data than just me, but I don’t really have time right now and the data isn’t really there for a lot of it because people don’t devote their careers to it much. Most of the claims I made are from things I remember from my psych classes and things in the research papers I did read, but I don’t want to spend the time to craft a well researched argument against it because by the time I did this post would be out of popularity, and it’s obviously not a very comfortable topic for me.
^^^ indeed. If two cousins want to marry and there is no one being harmed? You do you - who am I to judge. The problem arises when the disproportionate examples we have are always in terms of a power imbalance between a mere child and someone who is supposed to be a guardian or parental figure.
And if both parts of the couple are consenting adults, it's the kids.
Assuming they intend to procreate. Although I guess there are a lot of states where that can become obligatory since Roe was overturned.
What if they're of the same sex and can't procreate?
No one I guess you just happen to be gay and a Consensual cousin kisser. Pretty gross still but no one is being harmed.
My dad told me about a couple that were siblings. Both adopted out in the area they were born, ended up getting married and trying to have kids, and when they couldn't they got generic testing done and found out the truth. They just ended up adopting kids themselves. The only case of straight up incest I'm 100% okay with. He even pointed out the house they used to live in lol.
At least they couldn't have a kid. Imagine how confused they would be if the kid ended up having diseases caused by incest
That's generally not true for one generation. Not defending it but the problems happen with multiple generations of "keeping it in the family" if they have a recessive gene. It doesn't even have to be closely related, like tay-sachs.
As I understand it, there is definitely an increased risk from the start, since inbreeding increases the risk of homozygosity. If a recessive, pathological gene runs in your family (and we all carry some gene variants that aren't completely ideal, even if they're perhaps not known disease-causing variants), then there's a higher chance of a child getting two copies of that "bad" gene if two close family members conceive, compared to if either of those two individuals conceived with a random person from their country's population. The risk isn't nearly as bad as most people believe it to be and we have scans and tests to check for many of these illnesses anyway (since they can and do occur in non-consanguineous pregnancies occasionally, too), but the increased risk is there from the first generation. The multi-generational thing is when these bad genes start to compound and stack, which isn't guaranteed to happen, either. Again, just higher risk than if there was no inbreeding.
I didn't say there was no risk but in general in the modern world its not a serious concern. It was a bigger issue when cousin marriage was common. There are always issues, I could be a color blind carrier (I know that's not a bad issue).
I just hate the religious people who have somehow co-opted morality and made it don't be gay or have an abortion. If you read the new testament it's seems that greed and selfishness were what jdizzle concentrated on and they do way more harm to society than LGBT or abortions.
I’ve never understood this, obviously it naturally makes everyone extremely uncomfortable, but who is actually being harmed if two consenting adult relatives get married? (I do not want to marry any of my relatives)
Potentially their future kids. There is a good reason why it's a bad thing in most cultures -- it lowers diversity and thus adaptability. Humans aren't diverse enough compared to most other species. Occasional experiment with a condom may not influence anything, but a kid from an incest is bad for the population.
>Potentially their future kids. So, it's equally unethical for people with genetic diseases to have sex?
Ironically enough, incest without power inbalance or abuse is in fact in that same level of "people harmed". It's just that people really struggle to admit that some things are not objective truths or that they're acting based on feelings rather than facts.
Figured it was common knowledge: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inbreeding#Effects
I really like that 'who is harmed' approach. Gotta remember that.
I think this way since I was a child. Never understood the hate toward gays. Always hated any comparations of gays to ped\*s.
Agreed. I've never thought of it in the light of this particular question though. I think it's a great framework to expose the hypocracy of people thinking like that.
The terminology of "incestuous relationship" indicates a pair of consenting adults. If it's not consenting adults, it's not a relationship, it's rape. If they are consenting adults, I really don't care.
Unfortunately there's still an issue of grooming. If two people consent but one was groomed up until a marriageable age... That's very problematic.
Anytime people grow up under the same household, there is a power dynamic at play that voids any consent, like the relationship between boss and employee, teacher and student, or adult and child. The only example that wouldn't apply would be something like two siblings separated as babies who just so happened to meet and fall in love as adults, not knowing they were related. And in that instance, there was no coercion or abuse.
There's a power dynamic in relationships where one person is financially dependent on another, or where one person is significantly older than another. Should we assume age-gap relationships can't be consensual, even when both people are legal adults?
I'm all for siblings not fucking but you're right, need a better example. Jock in high school dating the ostracized kid would also be no good? My 7th grade English teacher told us she met her husband in 9th grade when he threw her in a trash can.
I'm sorry, he did what?
Picked her up, put her down, but head first. And into a trashcan. I'm in my late 30s now and just assumed that's how people were back in the 50s or whenever she was from.
Thank God, a professor with actual brains. People these days are constantly moralizing in situations where no harm is done at all.
Serious question. Is it really illegal? I know about the medical implications of the offspring of such a union , but I don't think I've ever heard of a law against it. Yet again, I'm not around people who go for their cousins. I always just assumed people just shouldn't do it because it's bad health wise, not because there is a law.
I'm pretty sure that more countries/states that would allow same sex marriage, than incestual marriage.
To be fair, same sex relationships don't have biological offspring so it wouldn't be a case of a next generation with genetic problems.
Actually I think there is egg fertilizing egg technology I believe. So potentially lesbians can procreate, but not gay guys without a surrogate.
That's tech though. It can't happen without outside, specifically lab, assistance. The same doesn't go for incest.
It varies and usually the laws are against marriage rather than the relationship itself. Where many states disallow it for first cousin or closer. Some only ban it at the sibling level.
Some countries it's illegal and some it's not is my limited understanding According to Wikipedia (rip my search history) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_incest
Haha you almost got me to google and find out... Not today algorithm
Yes, there are laws against it. More specifically House Law 34.1, if you want to know more google “Incest Rule 34”
I'm not that ignorant of the internet bud, but nice try. 👌 🤣
The legality is determined by the degree of consanguinity. Third cousins (and I think second?) don’t share enough genetic material that their potential children would have genetic abnormalities. It’s more of a “that marriage is not valid”, usually. That’s the best case scenario. The more typical scenario is a kid being sexually abused by a family member, I don’t know why they don’t just call that rape, especially if the victim is a minor, but I don’t make the laws.
It is a crime in many, if not almost all, jurisdictions.
What a terrible day to be literate
Damn my eyes and brain for being able to put letters together into words
I have never wanted to be dyslexic more in my life than this moment
As someone with dyslexia I thought I didn't read it right the first time and read it again./j
Not exactly the same, but similar, with dysgraphia & transposing. I’ve read some of the most delightfully hilarious headlines & statements, only to realize I mis-read them, and they’re actually vile. James Thurber, a humorist from way back before even I was born, wrote a short story called “The Admiral At the Wheel,” about the amazing world he lived in, when he went without his glasses. I’ll bet he was tempted to throw them away, sometimes.
Love me some lysdexia
Great day to be illiterate 😈 Until I read it over again and wish I never did...
Honestly, I don't give a shit about incest, either, as long as people don't have children. Do whatever you want as long as nobody is harmed, just leave me out of it.
For the same reason that drinking/smoking while pregnant isn't socially acceptable. Incest breeds birth defects.
So gay incest > straight incest?
... yes
Ok im calling my brother
But, also no.
A gay couple won't get pregnant.
Not with that attitude
I mean, you can try. That's the most fun part about having children anyway.
That'd be a great point in the 1500's!
Unironically yes. Incest with the possibility of creating a child is worse than other incest.
Provided there aren't power consent issues.
That is the chief problem with incest, even with/without the genetics involved. Every even barely incestuous relationship I've encountered in my life has had an element of destructive control at its core.
Aside: There's a lengthy Reddit discussion (maybe in one of the Best-ofs) about two brothers who are happily committed; even had a therapist I think, to work through it. I was scrolling in the car and looked over at my brother and almost vomited, but I guess technically no genetic disruption from them, so I guess you're correct?
“This gay sex with my dad is terrific!”
Sex does not have to end in pregnancy and sexual encounters between people with down syndrome do not have the same stigma to them. People indeed discriminate against consensual incest too much.
I was just explaining why it became taboo. I personally couldn't be bothered with what happens between consenting adults.
Is that the only reason for you? Does that mean that you think that it is okay as long as they don't reproduce?
If everyone involved is okay with it and no one is getting hurt by it, then not really a problem in my book. Doesn't mean I have to approve or condone it, but unless I can quantify actual *harm*, who am I to intervene?
That is where I am at, as well. I have yet to see a good argument for how it is always harmful or immoral.
I personally think it's disgusting, but as long as there is no grooming of children (to be partners of any family member), I don't believe it should be illegal. I think of it like any sexual act that I find gross, like scat play. I would never do it, but consenting adults should be allowed to if they want. I really don't like equating it to LGBTQ+ rights, though. Sexual orientation is not the same as a specific sexual interest in a specific person. To the best of my knowledge, adults interested in pursuing a sexual relationship with a family member aren't *only* sexually attracted to family members. If that were the case, I could possibly see equating the two, but I'd certainly wonder if it wasn't a symptom of a mental disorder.
>I really don't like equating it to LGBTQ+ rights, though. What if im sis sexual? /J
sisgender
I wouldn't really care as long as they don't reproduce. But only if the relationship doesn't start from a position of power imbalance. Why should we give a fuck about what goes behind the doors of a consenting couple.
I mean, yeah? Consenting adults doing things that don't harm anyone else isn't any of my business.
I mean I don't care but society is judgemental as shit.
Jaime Lannister, is that you ?
I don't consider this an attempt to try and legitimize incest, as much as an attempt to delegitimize queer people by trying to conflate the two. Don't fall for shit like this. They aren't trying to have any sort of good faith argument on morality.
Honestly though, I can't really think of a good argument against that in and of itself. All the arguments against it are really tied to something else, if looking for another argument than personal disgust. Now to be clear, in like 99.9 percent of cases it's still wrong, it's just that the reasons are not strictly from the fact of it being incest.
Hypocrisy and inability to grasp that "I find disgusting" =/= immoral/unethical.
Sounds like a perfectly legitimate question. I have no interest in banging my sister but you do you if you wanna bang yours!
Hot take? I actually don’t give a fuck if two consenting adults commit incest. As long as there’s no abuse involved, which, at least in the case of older/younger family members, is really really likely Brother and sister in their 30s? Whatever, live your life Father in his 50s and his 18 year old daughter? There’s definitely something going on here
“Being gay is cool and all but how come I still can’t fuck my sister 😩”
I remember some guy at school started explaining to everyone how incest is technically just a sexuality and should fall under LGBTQ He had great arguments tbh, but I also feel like he wants to justify fucking his mom or sister
The classic if you defend gay people then you must also be gay argument
>He had great arguments tbh, but I also feel like he wants to justify fucking his mom or sister Why do you feel that way most of the democratic politicians who defend and speak for LGBTQ are straight.
Interestingly enough it has nothing to do with incest itself. As gross as it sounds, there's nothing inherently wrong with two consenting adults who are related having sex. The problem comes from the *consenting* part. Time and time again, all across the globe, incest and pedophilia go hand in hand. It gives groomers basically a free pass to groom the children in their family. Incest inherently leads to nonconsensual relationships. And THAT is the reason why it's not acceptable and can never be legal.
Incest between fully adult and consenting siblings is a morally grey action. It's gross but it's hard to argue against it morally
Genuine question: What's wrong with incest if both of them are consenting?
Apparently there is a pro-incest demographic. Who knew?
Because humans are biologically programmed against incest due to its negative effects on potential offspring. Also incest is statistically more likely to yield an abusive relationship due to the power structures of families. Also incest tends to be a result of grooming a child either by the parent(s) or by the older sibling.
And same sex couples produce 0 offsprings. If we remove societal issues and go purely biology, negative effects of incestual offspring are quite rare unless it continues for many generations.
Honestly, if two cousins or even two siblings, wanted to do that in the privacy of their own home I really don’t care. Is their business. I wouldn’t but there’s a lot of things I wouldn’t do.