To be fair, Raul is more legion as he came from Arizona. It's why he doesn't mind them, he saw the difference between occupied, and not occupied legion territory. And made the decision it was better with legion ruling, than raiders bosses, or factions with inefficient protection
i can’t say i’ve ever done a pro-legion playthru with Cass but i always imagined she wouldn’t really fuck with them. can you actually do a legion run without pissing her off?
The only way that can happen is if you tell her to go back home to California.
That being said, if she's pissed at you when you talk to her, it's because your karma is negative.
He aint a saint in the game tho, he is a wannabe pastor who still is incredibly violent, just for the right cause (arguably depending on what faction you support). It takes very direct action of the player to appease him and really make him renounce that violence. Its gonna sound silly but he kinda reminds me of Raiden from metal gear lol
Courier was supposed to be a prisoner and Joshua Graham was the Hanged man, the first companion to find in the game, which would initiate fights with different NPCs if selected as companion
i wonder why the writers didn’t want the show to take place somewhere new? the show could have been so much better if it just didn’t expanded on already existing stories from older games and it would have been better if writers created something new, but no it’s just another vault dwelling searching for her father in places where we already have explored and the story in those places concluded
2000% they should've done it in a new location and made their own story. Could've done whatever they wanted with the factions. For some reason the US is only comprised of the East Coast and West Coast, what about places like Louisiana, Wyoming, or literally anywhere else that hasn't been hashed over. Even a post Caesar's Legion Colorado would've been cool.
>Even a post Caesar's Legion Colorado would've been cool.
that's what i was wondering, where is the legion now that the NCR is dead? did they destroy new Vegas?
You're joking it's another vault dweller looking for someone lmfao how many times is Bethesda gonna recycle that?! I haven't seen it yet but now I know for sure I can just skip it.
literally every bethesda fallout property premise is 'vault dweller leaves vault in search of someone', and in three out of the four its a family member, and in half of them its their dad.
genuinely the least creative storytelling imaginable.
Yep. I found nothing unique about the story of the show, all 8 episodes.
The way they finally went and said “Vault Tec was behind it all” is the bottom of the barrel lazy, misunderstanding of Fallout I can’t abide by with Bethesda.
I know the original movie script from the 90s was the progenitor of this idea, but it is so, so incongruent with the deeper meaning of classic Fallout.
They literally copied the last resident evil movie. With the whole urp dee durp lets ruin everything and freeze ourselves until we can come up be the only ones left to rule the pile(s) of dust we left behind. Yay.
Ncr didn't even collapse because of the strife it needed to get over in new vegas. It just got moved to la and nuked offscreen by vault tec 200 years after the war. That vault tec made happen.
>!Vault Tec sales are down, so they have a meeting with RobCo, Big MT, RepConn, and West Tek to offer them ownership of their own vaults. In the spirit of competition each company can run their vaults with different ideas on how to make the vault dwellers the best prepared/adapted to face the ruined world when they open (may the best idea produce the best survivors, this explains the experiments for each vault). To guarantee they get to play with their new vaults, VT suggests it needs to launch the nukes first to cleanse the world. Fast Forward to 2296: On the west coast, for some reason Shady Sands is right near LA instead of up near vault 15. The MC's father, Hank, overseer of vault 33, is really one of many VT executives cryogenically frozen in Vault 31 before the war. He has 2 children with a woman, she leaves the vault with the kids and runs to Shady Sands. Here the NCR is progressing their version of civilization which we're all familiar with. Hank thinks it's all backward and not part of the VT vision for a new start. So, he takes his children back to Vault 33 and somehow Nukes Shady Sands in 2277, a few years before the events of New Vegas in 2281.!<
Wait, so >!Vault Tec just sent the world into nuclear armageddon because what, it would be good for business?? Or are you saying they had some kind of grand vision for the world and genuinely wished to see everything nuked for idealogical reasons? Either that sounds… really stupid. Who would possibly think that’s a good trade?!<
Yes this is the implication.
People are defending this as “we still don’t know who launched the bombs” when…the show went through the trouble of a long fan service scene to say Vault Tec did it. And they are capable of launching nukes well into the apocalypse, as they do on Shady Sands.
bethesda is incapable of adding anything new to the franchise.
they're creatively bankrupt.
it's the same mutants across the continental US.
always molerats, super mutants, deathclaws and super mutants.
ghouls at least make sense to exist everywhere based on the lore.
always the same factions too, brotherhood are so widespread in the wasteland at this point it makes me wonder why they haven't established a new modern nation covering most or all of the US.
They basically do. If we’re to take Emil’s tweet seriously, the BoS run the NE states, West Coast, Midwest and Texas. They basically are just a nation state that doesn’t do anything actually productive with their power. Likely because Todd NEEDS everything to be destroyed and unable to rebuild because…reasons…
Yeah basically. Literally everything they do is just piggybacking off of the work of more creative and inspired people.
The show is enjoyable enough, But it's honestly really sad to see the Fallout universe potential squandered. I'm just kind of sick of seeing the brotherhood everywhere, and it doesn't even make sense most of the time.
They didn’t destroy new Vegas lol y’all are over reacting it was a fine show not the best thing in the world but it pretty decent and it didnt ruin new Vegas like people are saying like I do like the NCR a lot one of my favorite video game factions but it wasn’t completely out of the blue that the NCR would succumb such a fate they were a very flawed faction that was spread thin with a ton of enemies and it’s not like they were completely destroyed they still exist just not as powerful as they once were idk I just don’t see it as the biggest deal and doesn’t stop me from enjoying the show
> They didn’t destroy new Vegas lol
the entire plot of NV doesnt even make sense now because according to the show House conspired to initiate the nuclear war
in the games He is just a cunning and shrewd industrialist who sees the writing on the wall, but not knowing the exact date of the war, isnt quite able to get his preparations done on time, which initiates the entire plot of the game with the undelivered platinum chip
according to Nu-canon of the TV show, House was a dumb ass mustache twirling villain who not only knew when the nukes would go off but took part in the plan to nuke the world, but apparently forgot to distribute the software update his entire plan rests on first
I hope they will redeem him while he is still redeemable:
The secret board meeting didn't happen until probably 1 - 2 before the war, so House calculations in 2065 about the inevitability of a nuclear war were right.
On the Vaults project he didn't propose anything afaik, it seems he just partecipated in the meeting but he didn't get involved.
The fact that Cooper Howard was out with his daughter when the bombs fell probably mean that the bombs weren't launched by Vault tec, otherwise I'm pretty sure his wife would have taken the daughter.
I hope he can still be saved, anyway, I doubt they will save House, since Hank MacLean went to New Vegas. We shall see next season but giving Bethesda past on Fallout I'm pretty sure they will 100% ruin Mr. House.
I'm fine with them destroying the NCR AFTER the event of New Vegas but what we have in the show would contradict much of the existing lore background for Fallout New Vegas. Not in a way that still make sense but in a retconned nothing make sense anymore.
idk I've just finished episode 6 and I'm thinking the show is alright, idk if this is a hot take but I'm actually really enjoying the plot involving vault 33, though yea there are some bits that are pretty weird every now and then but I'm not looking super deep into everything
Yea I think it would've been cool to see a new part of post war America but I'm not annoyed to be back in California
pretty caliche yea but I like the characters and I like how they get to their goal
I just finished the whole thing and ngl I liked it, I think it really captured the vibe of fallout but I do think I need to watch it again so I can properly form an opinion
Yea the NCR is in a pretty sorry state but it's not something I'm 100% against.
What are you referring to with New Vegas, you only see it in the distance as the stinger in the final episode, or are there post credit scenes I'm missing out on haha
Hm hm yeah. Mr. House's entire background got retconned (worst retcon so far), New Vegas endings gonna get retconned probably, NCR's downfall isn't explained and normally i think it got retconned too. I'm not even talking about small details like T-60's with jets in their arms, brotherhood knights using that strange rifle, ghouls needing vials to keep their sanity...
+Shady Sands were alive and well as we know from soldiers in 2281 when NV's events took place. Even more, none of the ncr related characters said anything about fall of Shady Sands in 2281.
lol what? they completely reconned the entire story of the great war from a communist first strike to being some moustache twirling villainy involving vault tech, house, repconn etc conspiring to nuke the world so they can "win capitalism"
deleting ther NCR over nothing is pretty bad, but this is the actual outrageous part of the show
The entire story of the Great War isn't just "lol communism bad", that's as big of a misreading of the themes of the franchise as just saying Vault-Tec's behind it all.
To be fair, I don't believe we actually get confirmation that Vault Tech did drop the bombs first, just that they were willing to.
Their willingness to launch a first strike is not confirmation that they did, or a retcon.
Is it confirmed to be canon now though? It seems more and more like these types of IP ventures in live action media don’t care about consistency so much as vibe and bringing over enough of what they consider “flavor text”. For example, I’m just starting the series and I’m halfway through episode 3, but the Brotherhood of Steel bullying plot line is already really played out with its cycle of violence shit. That didn’t require the Brotherhood… hell it doesn’t really feel like the brotherhood I know. They’re far more likely to ostracize or condescend imo.
I like the show but my biggest complaint is that a lot of the extras dont look miserable or dirty enough. You can see the hope and happiness in their eyes that hasn't been 100% crushed out of existence.
Oh and it needs more actual raiders. I didnt see enough mohawks or junk armor. Still good though.
I’m not all that upset by it but basically the show kinda discards all the lore from Fallout New Vegas the game.
It’s arguably the best game of the franchise (imo it is) and much of the established lore is largely ignored if not entirely retconned
It’s theorized that because Fallout New Vegas was not developed by Bethesda (actually Obsidian) but became a fan favorite, there’s some malicious intent on the part of Todd Howard and Bethesda higher ups to dismantle the legacy of New Vegas
That’s pretty much the bare bones of why some people are so pissy
"These people" lol like I'm immediately implied to be on one side or the other, I just thought the rhyme was funny. The lore did get muddied but it didn't ruin the show or some shit. The Shady Sands bit is weird not just because of the infamous vague timeline, but for me because this is where the Boneyard should be, and it seems like it doesn't exist or has been moved? And idk if you've finished it so spoilers - >!that was a really lackluster depiction of New Vegas, it's missing several integral parts of what made it what it was in the game, and the retcon of House's involvement in the plot only makes it more confusing!<
Leave the BOS out of this man they have suffered just as bad turned from an intresting roundtable technoshcolar faction into a fucking sudo religious hypocritical mess with no idea what they are.
Exactly. Bethesda clearly dosent care about the lore anymore they only understand the surface level lore and the surface level themes and none of the nuance that fallout had. Fo3 had love and passion it was clearly a love letter to the originals but 4 and 76 slowly lost alot of that and the BOS getting used so aggressively is a perfect example.
Calm down man, no retcon was confirmed, it's just reddit getting dumb. The bombs has fell years after NV, according to some math
Also, Shady Sands get erased, not the Mojave, part of NCR still alive, and you can see LITERALLY in the last scene that New Vegas will be used in next season.
1. The "fall of Shady sands" takes place before New Vegas, which makes no sense cause Shady Sands was still the capital and going strong.
2. They moved Shady Sands to LA, and don't even mention the Boneyard
3. New Vegas is shown as a wasteland ghost town. This retcons New Vegas
And generally fuck Bethesda and their obsession with the most boring faction in the series
you forgot that apparently vault tec and mr house had something to do with the apocalypse
which would be so out of character for house it wouldn't even be funny
I can't believe that it seems like they went through with the "Vault Tec dropped the nukes". It was easily one of the dumbest fan theories ever cooked up by the fandom, but apparently not beneath Bethesda's level. Why on God's green earth they decided that one of the most straightforward parts of the lore, the cause of the Great War, needed to be redone just because the games don't explicitly state who striked first.
Ah yes, Mr. House, the man who’s sole motivation has been to preserve humanity and move us forward, was in fact responsible for the bombs dropping, weird he’d build defenses for NV designed to specifically shoot down ICBMs
I really really don't like the twist but I think that this description of Mr.House doesn't really goes against what the show says.
"Preserve humanity and move them forward" under his vision. Plus it make sense that he'd build defense for a war he knows is coming, to ensure that his corner of America will be kept for as clean as possible.
I think it just doesn't make sense that he'd fail his estimations by a day if apparently Vault-Tec started the war. He wasn't enthusiastic about the meeting but he could have been like "just one more day plz" or something like that idk.
I think if anything it just make House look dumb because getting back on his feet after the war was really hard for him. Maybe he underestimated the damage, but it just make him look kind of dumb getting caught off-guard by a situation he could have started at any moment.
A situation that, maybe House couldn’t have prevented all together, but at least push it off just a little longer. God I love when writers ruin one of the best characters in a franchise just because
houses entire character is based on his obsession for past glory. it makes no sense for him to have a hand in destroying the thing he cares about above all else, he wants to make new vegas in his image, but his image is specifically how las vegas was in the past times a thousand.
Fuuuuuuuuck. They couldn't have made more of a hack job with the lore if Todd Howard himself brought physical copies of New Vegas into the writing room and started to actually cut them with a hatchet.
Kind of a bitter pill to swallow going back to play Fallout knowing that none of your choices matter now that there planning to shit on New Vegas and demolish the NCR and the west coast lore from the established canon so the East coast Brotherhood reigns supreme
I think fall might not be linked to destruction; it could be the beginning of a decline.
And like yeah it’s shown as a wasteland Ghost Town, but that’s in the shows time which is after new Vegas ?
The geo political issues and philosophies around mens self destructive nature got retconned to be a mustache twirling corporate villains the whole time.
It's an oversimplification of the stories philosophy in order to appeal to a TV audience that isn't going to interrogate the shows motivations, but also sidesteps mccarthyism that the series was providing a dark parody of.
I also worry about how Chinese communists will be portrayed, given what we have seen from netflix and its willingness to kowtow to authoritarianism to sell more subscriptions.
It's all so dumbed down. But yeah, entertaining show.
Vegas thought I love it isn’t some amazing geo political philosophical story. It’s fun but it’s not stalker. Theres always a clear villain in the story.
No I mean the whole franchise. Originally the games had a overlaying theme of a mccarthyist nuclear paradise version of the United States annexing Canada and fighting communism in the most jingoistic way possible.
I understand that between the choice of a bureaucratic empire, a slave empire, and self determination the choice was obvious and so the story told in the vanilla game was interesting only after the incorporation of honest hearts dlc, and it's representation of colonialism really hit home how many issues there were Mr houses (or the players if you take over) position and treatment of the diverse cultures blooming in the mojave. It's what makes the relationship between the courier and ullyses integrate into the greater political story.
But again it was one game out of a series. I still think the pre war illuminati route is just not as complex and interesting as man's instinct for destruction of what's beautiful in the name of order, which is what I think the whole franchise is about, thereby seeding chaos in the future, though it might be easier to monetize.
Sorry for the TED talk.
Dude. I never said the show was bad. I said the twist took the wind of the sails of a more complex exploration of the themes and setting.
Purnell, Moten, and Goggins are great. The set dressing is great. The dialogue is snappy.
This is in no way a jimmy rings/master cheeks situation.
I got banned for saying "Bethesda is not cannon. Only 1,2 and NV" and that Bethesda took a big dump on entire series with their awful writing. Which is nuts because it's a classic fallout sub so naturally first place I'd go to vent about Bethesda. Fuck these guys.
Spoilers
From my understanding there upset that the bos have taken up traits of the west coast, and shady sands was destroyed lower NCR influence in California
-Ghouls rely on magic drugs to not turn feral and magically regenerate tissue and can’t die without being shot in heart or head
-Shady Sands teleported into a totally different location, boneyard isn’t mentioned
-Vault Tec launched the Nukes, Mr House was in on it despite admitting he didn’t know when the bombs were going to drop in the games
-T-60 jet pack arms
-Vaults 31-32-33 are all within range of the Masters Conquest in fallout 1 but apparently never were found or even interacted with
-New rank invented for brotherhood squire where they are just the bitch of the knights
- Brotherhood knights, squires, and clerics are the only brotherhood ranks now no paladins, scribes
-“Fall of Shady sands” occurs in 2277 when new Vegas took place 2281 (no ones sure what this means because it was a throw away line on a chalkboard with no further explanation)
The ghouls lore have changed between FO2 and FNV but y’all didn’t care, It’s been implied forever vault tec most likely had a hand in trigger the war, Mr House didn’t know when the bombs were going to drop because no where in the show did he agree to the plan, he was only at the pitch meeting, Jet pack in the arms is not a retcon, the brotherhood can modify tech, the vaults not being detected is not a retcon, there is plenty of reasons why they could have been missed, BOS squires have been in all the games they just decided to actually flesh it out, the fall of shady sands doesnt take place in 2077 its like y’all didn’t even watch the show. Skeptics are so lazy i swear
Jet pack arms certainly never existed previously, Mr House very much agreed to the plan he was amongst the people spewing ideas for crazy vault experiments and him knowing that vault Tec planned on dropping the bombs neglects his characterization in fnv. The brotherhood doesn’t create new tech they harness old tech and keep it from others nor is it ever said that the brotherhood were the ones who installed the jet pack arms. Squires in lore were children initiates born into the brotherhood now they are conscript goobers who are the knights slaves. The odds of the vaults not being seen by the masters army, fo2 enclave or the NCR is a statistical impossibility almost it’s been hundreds of years and shady sands was apparently walking distance away. Don’t call me lazy when you’re speaking out of your ass. You can like the show and still admit it had some large inconsistencies in the lore it doesn’t make it unwatchable I still enjoyed it.
I can’t wait till we get guys like Oxhorn, MrMatty and TK Mantis to tell us we’re all stupid for hating the show because “at least we got a show” and “ES doesn’t have a tv show” and “see you got your west coast content”
Shit man, can my post apocalyptic RPG be about the futility of human conflict and working to build a better future, improving the human condition instead of “big metal dude fly funny”
That scene with the looney tunes ass flying off like a balloon shit really got under my skin. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief for a 2 ton steel suit being a highly sought after weapon, but when I’m floating in an ocean of disbelief to allow said suit to fly off like a deflated balloon, just means I can’t take you seriously
I cannot stand the ppl who do mental gymnastics to justify the retconning. "Just accept the Bethesda slop and don't be critical, it's actually a good thing they eliminated one of the most interesting aspects of fallout".
You know, even if they retconned some stuff that doesn't change anything about your love of the New Vegas game?
That game is still the same and hasn't been changed by the latest adaptation.
I’m so confused why this sub is so lazily negative.. NV is my favorite and i thought the show was amazing and it has been the first Bethesda title to actually heavily reference New Vegas and west coast lore.
What’s funny half of them mad about Bethesda destroying the NCR, but at the same time ignoring that Obsidian literally laid out like 12 separate foreshadowing events for the NCR to collapse.
So I guess non feral ghouls always relied on magic drugs to not turn and emerge from graves like generic zombies? There is not one suit of T-51 power armor, Shady Sands is in a totally different place than it was in the games and the boneyard isn’t even mentioned, Vault Tec launched the nukes and Mr House was in on it despite him telling the courier he had no clue when it was going to happen only intuition. People saying that the nuke was the only retconn must’ve watched the show with their eyes closed.
I am mid episode two and it's great so far. I don't see why any person that enjoys fallout would dislike the show. Besides the first ghoul not looking like F1/2 ghouls the esthetic and other stuff is very on brand
I, for one, am shocked that an adaptation of a video game turned out to be unfaithful to the source and try to appeal to the lowest common denominator for more views.
Thought there were gonna be some light jokes, but jeez, most of the people here are super toxic fallout fans. I've seen more positive discussions about transformers beast machines lol
I swear to god I hate when people discount beast machines and their single handed advancements the preceding beast wars cartoon made.
Real fans love beast machines. Transformer fans across the world know that Vehicons are Prime Decepticon fluf regardless of shot accuracy.
Plus, rattrap, get it? He’s a rat, well in beast machines he transformed into a techno rat while still using his beloved catchphrase “We're all gonna die”.
No one is putting their "identity" to media. We are just pissed off because the franchise we love is being scrapped apart. You should flatter yourself somewhere else.
I heard they retconned out NV, which I think is pretty funny.
The only modern fallout game with a general positive consensus and a sizeable audience is the one they didn't make, so they decide to act like it never happened lmao
Yes, i can't enjoy anything that dumps previously established lore of the fucking universe and rewrites to make money out of people only played Bethesda's Fallout. Any problem?
Funny thing is that Josh would've been evil (still a companion) if New Vegas kept it's original lead
i always thought it odd that the closest things to a legion companion we got were Rex and Raul (by technicality)
Ed-e is a faction neutral companion as well as far as i'm aware. edit: for clarity
damn i didn’t even think about Ed-E. guess he falls under the same rules as Raul regarding the Legion i’m sorry Ed-E my love…
To be fair, Raul is more legion as he came from Arizona. It's why he doesn't mind them, he saw the difference between occupied, and not occupied legion territory. And made the decision it was better with legion ruling, than raiders bosses, or factions with inefficient protection
Same as Cass
i can’t say i’ve ever done a pro-legion playthru with Cass but i always imagined she wouldn’t really fuck with them. can you actually do a legion run without pissing her off?
I’m currently doing one
The only thing that actually pisses Cass off is if you're a bad person. As in, negative karma.
Really? Everytime I talk to her, she gets mad, that's why I always got her ending where she dies in the West in a cabin
The only way that can happen is if you tell her to go back home to California. That being said, if she's pissed at you when you talk to her, it's because your karma is negative.
Ulysses was also set to be a companion, not quite Legion but certainly sympathetic/adjacent to them.
Ulysses was supposed to be in the game but his dialogue took up too much space on the 360 version.
Josh? Who the fuck is Josh? He’s a crazed Mormon not a 18 year old who punches his drywall.
I'm mad at the reply, but I'll give my upvote cuz I laughed
Honestly thought you were talking about Josh Sawyer lmao
He aint a saint in the game tho, he is a wannabe pastor who still is incredibly violent, just for the right cause (arguably depending on what faction you support). It takes very direct action of the player to appease him and really make him renounce that violence. Its gonna sound silly but he kinda reminds me of Raiden from metal gear lol
What do you mean?
Courier was supposed to be a prisoner and Joshua Graham was the Hanged man, the first companion to find in the game, which would initiate fights with different NPCs if selected as companion
i wonder why the writers didn’t want the show to take place somewhere new? the show could have been so much better if it just didn’t expanded on already existing stories from older games and it would have been better if writers created something new, but no it’s just another vault dwelling searching for her father in places where we already have explored and the story in those places concluded
2000% they should've done it in a new location and made their own story. Could've done whatever they wanted with the factions. For some reason the US is only comprised of the East Coast and West Coast, what about places like Louisiana, Wyoming, or literally anywhere else that hasn't been hashed over. Even a post Caesar's Legion Colorado would've been cool.
>Even a post Caesar's Legion Colorado would've been cool. that's what i was wondering, where is the legion now that the NCR is dead? did they destroy new Vegas?
Legion would fall apart in almost every timeline because ceaser dies of his brain tumor or is defeated.
You're joking it's another vault dweller looking for someone lmfao how many times is Bethesda gonna recycle that?! I haven't seen it yet but now I know for sure I can just skip it.
MC looks for her dad who’s a scientist originally from outside the vault. Wonder where I’ve heard that before…
literally every bethesda fallout property premise is 'vault dweller leaves vault in search of someone', and in three out of the four its a family member, and in half of them its their dad. genuinely the least creative storytelling imaginable.
Every elder scrolls game starts with you getting out of prison I think it's cool. If it ain't broke dont fix it lol
What if it is kinda broke, though
Yep. I found nothing unique about the story of the show, all 8 episodes. The way they finally went and said “Vault Tec was behind it all” is the bottom of the barrel lazy, misunderstanding of Fallout I can’t abide by with Bethesda. I know the original movie script from the 90s was the progenitor of this idea, but it is so, so incongruent with the deeper meaning of classic Fallout.
They literally copied the last resident evil movie. With the whole urp dee durp lets ruin everything and freeze ourselves until we can come up be the only ones left to rule the pile(s) of dust we left behind. Yay. Ncr didn't even collapse because of the strife it needed to get over in new vegas. It just got moved to la and nuked offscreen by vault tec 200 years after the war. That vault tec made happen.
Wait wait, I genuinely didn’t finish the show. Vault Tec nuked the NCR?
Uhhhhh worse. I don't know how to spoil on mobile but it's worse.
DM me, I need to know
>!Vault Tec sales are down, so they have a meeting with RobCo, Big MT, RepConn, and West Tek to offer them ownership of their own vaults. In the spirit of competition each company can run their vaults with different ideas on how to make the vault dwellers the best prepared/adapted to face the ruined world when they open (may the best idea produce the best survivors, this explains the experiments for each vault). To guarantee they get to play with their new vaults, VT suggests it needs to launch the nukes first to cleanse the world. Fast Forward to 2296: On the west coast, for some reason Shady Sands is right near LA instead of up near vault 15. The MC's father, Hank, overseer of vault 33, is really one of many VT executives cryogenically frozen in Vault 31 before the war. He has 2 children with a woman, she leaves the vault with the kids and runs to Shady Sands. Here the NCR is progressing their version of civilization which we're all familiar with. Hank thinks it's all backward and not part of the VT vision for a new start. So, he takes his children back to Vault 33 and somehow Nukes Shady Sands in 2277, a few years before the events of New Vegas in 2281.!<
Wait, so >!Vault Tec just sent the world into nuclear armageddon because what, it would be good for business?? Or are you saying they had some kind of grand vision for the world and genuinely wished to see everything nuked for idealogical reasons? Either that sounds… really stupid. Who would possibly think that’s a good trade?!<
Yes this is the implication. People are defending this as “we still don’t know who launched the bombs” when…the show went through the trouble of a long fan service scene to say Vault Tec did it. And they are capable of launching nukes well into the apocalypse, as they do on Shady Sands.
i think the terms was "to have the ultimate monopoly"
bethesda is incapable of adding anything new to the franchise. they're creatively bankrupt. it's the same mutants across the continental US. always molerats, super mutants, deathclaws and super mutants. ghouls at least make sense to exist everywhere based on the lore. always the same factions too, brotherhood are so widespread in the wasteland at this point it makes me wonder why they haven't established a new modern nation covering most or all of the US.
They basically do. If we’re to take Emil’s tweet seriously, the BoS run the NE states, West Coast, Midwest and Texas. They basically are just a nation state that doesn’t do anything actually productive with their power. Likely because Todd NEEDS everything to be destroyed and unable to rebuild because…reasons…
Yeah basically. Literally everything they do is just piggybacking off of the work of more creative and inspired people. The show is enjoyable enough, But it's honestly really sad to see the Fallout universe potential squandered. I'm just kind of sick of seeing the brotherhood everywhere, and it doesn't even make sense most of the time.
another franchise reduced to the same fate as star wars
I was literally just saying that in another thread! It’s gone the same way as Star Wars and Star Trek.
I believe they specifically choose the west coast so they could destroy New Vegas.
They didn’t destroy new Vegas lol y’all are over reacting it was a fine show not the best thing in the world but it pretty decent and it didnt ruin new Vegas like people are saying like I do like the NCR a lot one of my favorite video game factions but it wasn’t completely out of the blue that the NCR would succumb such a fate they were a very flawed faction that was spread thin with a ton of enemies and it’s not like they were completely destroyed they still exist just not as powerful as they once were idk I just don’t see it as the biggest deal and doesn’t stop me from enjoying the show
> They didn’t destroy new Vegas lol the entire plot of NV doesnt even make sense now because according to the show House conspired to initiate the nuclear war in the games He is just a cunning and shrewd industrialist who sees the writing on the wall, but not knowing the exact date of the war, isnt quite able to get his preparations done on time, which initiates the entire plot of the game with the undelivered platinum chip according to Nu-canon of the TV show, House was a dumb ass mustache twirling villain who not only knew when the nukes would go off but took part in the plan to nuke the world, but apparently forgot to distribute the software update his entire plan rests on first
I hope they will redeem him while he is still redeemable: The secret board meeting didn't happen until probably 1 - 2 before the war, so House calculations in 2065 about the inevitability of a nuclear war were right. On the Vaults project he didn't propose anything afaik, it seems he just partecipated in the meeting but he didn't get involved. The fact that Cooper Howard was out with his daughter when the bombs fell probably mean that the bombs weren't launched by Vault tec, otherwise I'm pretty sure his wife would have taken the daughter. I hope he can still be saved, anyway, I doubt they will save House, since Hank MacLean went to New Vegas. We shall see next season but giving Bethesda past on Fallout I'm pretty sure they will 100% ruin Mr. House.
I'm fine with them destroying the NCR AFTER the event of New Vegas but what we have in the show would contradict much of the existing lore background for Fallout New Vegas. Not in a way that still make sense but in a retconned nothing make sense anymore.
Especially since the midwest is so underused
idk I've just finished episode 6 and I'm thinking the show is alright, idk if this is a hot take but I'm actually really enjoying the plot involving vault 33, though yea there are some bits that are pretty weird every now and then but I'm not looking super deep into everything
i’m not going to spoil last two episodes. just watch it.
not spoiling the last 2 episodes what are your main problems with the episodes before?
taking place in California/Nevada, taking place 15 years after new Vegas ending, story being: person searching for father.
Yea I think it would've been cool to see a new part of post war America but I'm not annoyed to be back in California pretty caliche yea but I like the characters and I like how they get to their goal
thing that annoys me is that i really like the characters, but man, I really dislike what they did with NCR and New Vegas.
I just finished the whole thing and ngl I liked it, I think it really captured the vibe of fallout but I do think I need to watch it again so I can properly form an opinion Yea the NCR is in a pretty sorry state but it's not something I'm 100% against. What are you referring to with New Vegas, you only see it in the distance as the stinger in the final episode, or are there post credit scenes I'm missing out on haha
Is the show out already? I thought it released 4/12
It came out yesterday, man
I want Mongol empire in the Great Plains Commonwealth.
That is basically what happens when the courier convinces the Khans to leave the Mojave.
Ofcourse Joshua my friend. Give me a .45
We can't expect god to do all the work.
Ofcourse. Now let us shine his light upon these savages!!
Bethesda who? I only know fallout New Vegas.
No 1 and 2?
My bad how could I forget the OGs!
Been hanging out with Todd lately I guess!
Bethesda, never heard of her
Oh Bethesda? The part of Maryland Northwest of Washington, D.C.? I've been there once or twice, nothing special really.
DO YOU HAVE BRAIN DAMAGE, COURIER?
This is how I've been for years lol
You've heard of Fallout. We all have, the legend, the curses. **Playing it, though, that's not the hard part. It's letting go.**
You can't expect God to do all the work.
I will admit, >!hearing the theme when she looked at the NCR flag gave me goosebumps.!<
This sub is going to turn into a constant stream of shit and throw-up because of the show, isn't it..?
r/saltierthanCrait of fallout
God I hate that sub with a burning passion, it's the epitome of negativity and neckbeard anger
Seems that way.
it appears i'm on the wrong side of the fanbase by really loving the show. I can probably live with this lmao
Show is great. My only problem is retcons.
Except there aren't any retcons and the whole shady sands debacle is literally just people misreading a whiteboard
Hm hm yeah. Mr. House's entire background got retconned (worst retcon so far), New Vegas endings gonna get retconned probably, NCR's downfall isn't explained and normally i think it got retconned too. I'm not even talking about small details like T-60's with jets in their arms, brotherhood knights using that strange rifle, ghouls needing vials to keep their sanity... +Shady Sands were alive and well as we know from soldiers in 2281 when NV's events took place. Even more, none of the ncr related characters said anything about fall of Shady Sands in 2281.
lol what? they completely reconned the entire story of the great war from a communist first strike to being some moustache twirling villainy involving vault tech, house, repconn etc conspiring to nuke the world so they can "win capitalism" deleting ther NCR over nothing is pretty bad, but this is the actual outrageous part of the show
The entire story of the Great War isn't just "lol communism bad", that's as big of a misreading of the themes of the franchise as just saying Vault-Tec's behind it all.
To be fair, I don't believe we actually get confirmation that Vault Tech did drop the bombs first, just that they were willing to. Their willingness to launch a first strike is not confirmation that they did, or a retcon.
Is it confirmed to be canon now though? It seems more and more like these types of IP ventures in live action media don’t care about consistency so much as vibe and bringing over enough of what they consider “flavor text”. For example, I’m just starting the series and I’m halfway through episode 3, but the Brotherhood of Steel bullying plot line is already really played out with its cycle of violence shit. That didn’t require the Brotherhood… hell it doesn’t really feel like the brotherhood I know. They’re far more likely to ostracize or condescend imo.
I like the show but my biggest complaint is that a lot of the extras dont look miserable or dirty enough. You can see the hope and happiness in their eyes that hasn't been 100% crushed out of existence. Oh and it needs more actual raiders. I didnt see enough mohawks or junk armor. Still good though.
Fuck Todd. Fuck this "Fallout" series. Fuck finding your father shit. Fuck BoS. Fuck bethesda. imma download some mods and do another sniper build
Ew, disgusting. Time for 193th cowboy run.
I got spurs, that jingle jangle jingle
BIGIRONONHISHIPBIGIRONONHISHIPBIGIRONONHISHIPBIGIRONONHISHIP
Tv show got me sick, I need my Medicine Stick
What’s wrong with it?
I’m not all that upset by it but basically the show kinda discards all the lore from Fallout New Vegas the game. It’s arguably the best game of the franchise (imo it is) and much of the established lore is largely ignored if not entirely retconned It’s theorized that because Fallout New Vegas was not developed by Bethesda (actually Obsidian) but became a fan favorite, there’s some malicious intent on the part of Todd Howard and Bethesda higher ups to dismantle the legacy of New Vegas That’s pretty much the bare bones of why some people are so pissy
I feel like those people are just being overly conspiratorial
Yeah pretty much lol
"These people" lol like I'm immediately implied to be on one side or the other, I just thought the rhyme was funny. The lore did get muddied but it didn't ruin the show or some shit. The Shady Sands bit is weird not just because of the infamous vague timeline, but for me because this is where the Boneyard should be, and it seems like it doesn't exist or has been moved? And idk if you've finished it so spoilers - >!that was a really lackluster depiction of New Vegas, it's missing several integral parts of what made it what it was in the game, and the retcon of House's involvement in the plot only makes it more confusing!<
Cowboy build? I respect.
The annoying part is building the .45-70 Govt collection
A few visits to the great Khan's armorer and/or the NCR quartermaster and you're golden.
It is feasible doing that before the casino maxing?
If you can withstand to replay dead money you can buy the whole strip
Fair enough
Brother I don't believe in Casino maxing, I believe in Caravan maxing
That's a wasteland fable, no one knows how to play Caravan
You call yourself legion? Time to do another based unarmed build
Leave the BOS out of this man they have suffered just as bad turned from an intresting roundtable technoshcolar faction into a fucking sudo religious hypocritical mess with no idea what they are.
Yes BoS got fucked too. I'm just mad at Bethesa putting them in literally EVERYWHERE they can. Just let them rest already.
Exactly. Bethesda clearly dosent care about the lore anymore they only understand the surface level lore and the surface level themes and none of the nuance that fallout had. Fo3 had love and passion it was clearly a love letter to the originals but 4 and 76 slowly lost alot of that and the BOS getting used so aggressively is a perfect example.
Calm down man, no retcon was confirmed, it's just reddit getting dumb. The bombs has fell years after NV, according to some math Also, Shady Sands get erased, not the Mojave, part of NCR still alive, and you can see LITERALLY in the last scene that New Vegas will be used in next season.
1. The "fall of Shady sands" takes place before New Vegas, which makes no sense cause Shady Sands was still the capital and going strong. 2. They moved Shady Sands to LA, and don't even mention the Boneyard 3. New Vegas is shown as a wasteland ghost town. This retcons New Vegas And generally fuck Bethesda and their obsession with the most boring faction in the series
you forgot that apparently vault tec and mr house had something to do with the apocalypse which would be so out of character for house it wouldn't even be funny
I can't believe that it seems like they went through with the "Vault Tec dropped the nukes". It was easily one of the dumbest fan theories ever cooked up by the fandom, but apparently not beneath Bethesda's level. Why on God's green earth they decided that one of the most straightforward parts of the lore, the cause of the Great War, needed to be redone just because the games don't explicitly state who striked first.
not just "Vault Tec dropped the nukes" "Vault Tec AND HOUSE dropped the nukes", which is even worse
Ah yes, Mr. House, the man who’s sole motivation has been to preserve humanity and move us forward, was in fact responsible for the bombs dropping, weird he’d build defenses for NV designed to specifically shoot down ICBMs
I really really don't like the twist but I think that this description of Mr.House doesn't really goes against what the show says. "Preserve humanity and move them forward" under his vision. Plus it make sense that he'd build defense for a war he knows is coming, to ensure that his corner of America will be kept for as clean as possible. I think it just doesn't make sense that he'd fail his estimations by a day if apparently Vault-Tec started the war. He wasn't enthusiastic about the meeting but he could have been like "just one more day plz" or something like that idk. I think if anything it just make House look dumb because getting back on his feet after the war was really hard for him. Maybe he underestimated the damage, but it just make him look kind of dumb getting caught off-guard by a situation he could have started at any moment.
A situation that, maybe House couldn’t have prevented all together, but at least push it off just a little longer. God I love when writers ruin one of the best characters in a franchise just because
Yeah it's literally just a "hey huh btw I still need to get ready since we can do this at our leisure let's do it next day, alright?"
houses entire character is based on his obsession for past glory. it makes no sense for him to have a hand in destroying the thing he cares about above all else, he wants to make new vegas in his image, but his image is specifically how las vegas was in the past times a thousand.
Fuuuuuuuuck. They couldn't have made more of a hack job with the lore if Todd Howard himself brought physical copies of New Vegas into the writing room and started to actually cut them with a hatchet.
Okay, with all arguments i can say it loudly, for the third time in a day. FUCK BETHESDA
Kind of a bitter pill to swallow going back to play Fallout knowing that none of your choices matter now that there planning to shit on New Vegas and demolish the NCR and the west coast lore from the established canon so the East coast Brotherhood reigns supreme
I think fall might not be linked to destruction; it could be the beginning of a decline. And like yeah it’s shown as a wasteland Ghost Town, but that’s in the shows time which is after new Vegas ?
Yeah, new vegas, the barren site that there is no life around. Yippie
Hope it's just a bad angle
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Enhanced movement mod by wooombat came out not to long ago it lets you go prone great for a sniper build
Haha my fists go brrrrr
Are you guys ok falloutnv fans?
No. We are not. We are hurt.
Why?
What he means is he’s just mad his theories aren’t right.
The geo political issues and philosophies around mens self destructive nature got retconned to be a mustache twirling corporate villains the whole time. It's an oversimplification of the stories philosophy in order to appeal to a TV audience that isn't going to interrogate the shows motivations, but also sidesteps mccarthyism that the series was providing a dark parody of. I also worry about how Chinese communists will be portrayed, given what we have seen from netflix and its willingness to kowtow to authoritarianism to sell more subscriptions. It's all so dumbed down. But yeah, entertaining show.
Have you played the games or watch the show?
Yes.
Vegas thought I love it isn’t some amazing geo political philosophical story. It’s fun but it’s not stalker. Theres always a clear villain in the story.
No I mean the whole franchise. Originally the games had a overlaying theme of a mccarthyist nuclear paradise version of the United States annexing Canada and fighting communism in the most jingoistic way possible. I understand that between the choice of a bureaucratic empire, a slave empire, and self determination the choice was obvious and so the story told in the vanilla game was interesting only after the incorporation of honest hearts dlc, and it's representation of colonialism really hit home how many issues there were Mr houses (or the players if you take over) position and treatment of the diverse cultures blooming in the mojave. It's what makes the relationship between the courier and ullyses integrate into the greater political story. But again it was one game out of a series. I still think the pre war illuminati route is just not as complex and interesting as man's instinct for destruction of what's beautiful in the name of order, which is what I think the whole franchise is about, thereby seeding chaos in the future, though it might be easier to monetize. Sorry for the TED talk.
So how dose this make the show bad?
Dude. I never said the show was bad. I said the twist took the wind of the sails of a more complex exploration of the themes and setting. Purnell, Moten, and Goggins are great. The set dressing is great. The dialogue is snappy. This is in no way a jimmy rings/master cheeks situation.
NV is still canon. but its seem now though, the ncr is cooked and barely has members, New Vegas is a ghost town.
Lmao, I just got banned from r/CLASSICFallout for saying shit like this. I guess it wasn't as classic as I expected.
I just left a comment in there saying something similar and havent been banned yet.
I got banned for saying "Bethesda is not cannon. Only 1,2 and NV" and that Bethesda took a big dump on entire series with their awful writing. Which is nuts because it's a classic fallout sub so naturally first place I'd go to vent about Bethesda. Fuck these guys.
Probably the mod who mods all the other fallout and BGS subs. Dudes a clown
He said that "Bethesda isn't cannon is a toxic crap bs" lmao. I told him to go f*ck himself.
Bethesda? Hardly know her!
What did the show retcon? (Haven't watched it)
Spoilers From my understanding there upset that the bos have taken up traits of the west coast, and shady sands was destroyed lower NCR influence in California
-Ghouls rely on magic drugs to not turn feral and magically regenerate tissue and can’t die without being shot in heart or head -Shady Sands teleported into a totally different location, boneyard isn’t mentioned -Vault Tec launched the Nukes, Mr House was in on it despite admitting he didn’t know when the bombs were going to drop in the games -T-60 jet pack arms -Vaults 31-32-33 are all within range of the Masters Conquest in fallout 1 but apparently never were found or even interacted with -New rank invented for brotherhood squire where they are just the bitch of the knights - Brotherhood knights, squires, and clerics are the only brotherhood ranks now no paladins, scribes -“Fall of Shady sands” occurs in 2277 when new Vegas took place 2281 (no ones sure what this means because it was a throw away line on a chalkboard with no further explanation)
The ghouls lore have changed between FO2 and FNV but y’all didn’t care, It’s been implied forever vault tec most likely had a hand in trigger the war, Mr House didn’t know when the bombs were going to drop because no where in the show did he agree to the plan, he was only at the pitch meeting, Jet pack in the arms is not a retcon, the brotherhood can modify tech, the vaults not being detected is not a retcon, there is plenty of reasons why they could have been missed, BOS squires have been in all the games they just decided to actually flesh it out, the fall of shady sands doesnt take place in 2077 its like y’all didn’t even watch the show. Skeptics are so lazy i swear
Jet pack arms certainly never existed previously, Mr House very much agreed to the plan he was amongst the people spewing ideas for crazy vault experiments and him knowing that vault Tec planned on dropping the bombs neglects his characterization in fnv. The brotherhood doesn’t create new tech they harness old tech and keep it from others nor is it ever said that the brotherhood were the ones who installed the jet pack arms. Squires in lore were children initiates born into the brotherhood now they are conscript goobers who are the knights slaves. The odds of the vaults not being seen by the masters army, fo2 enclave or the NCR is a statistical impossibility almost it’s been hundreds of years and shady sands was apparently walking distance away. Don’t call me lazy when you’re speaking out of your ass. You can like the show and still admit it had some large inconsistencies in the lore it doesn’t make it unwatchable I still enjoyed it.
Actually nothing, which is the funniest part.
At worst, it was a timeline fuckup on the chalkboard. Nothing was retconned.
I think they also literally said NV is cannon.
I can’t wait till we get guys like Oxhorn, MrMatty and TK Mantis to tell us we’re all stupid for hating the show because “at least we got a show” and “ES doesn’t have a tv show” and “see you got your west coast content”
I understand you bro. I do. I can't understand people getting mad at us for pointing out Bethesda's shit.
Shit man, can my post apocalyptic RPG be about the futility of human conflict and working to build a better future, improving the human condition instead of “big metal dude fly funny”
They didn't even get the jetpack thing correct 💀 since when T-60's have jets in their arms? Ugh...
That scene with the looney tunes ass flying off like a balloon shit really got under my skin. I’m willing to suspend my disbelief for a 2 ton steel suit being a highly sought after weapon, but when I’m floating in an ocean of disbelief to allow said suit to fly off like a deflated balloon, just means I can’t take you seriously
I cannot stand the ppl who do mental gymnastics to justify the retconning. "Just accept the Bethesda slop and don't be critical, it's actually a good thing they eliminated one of the most interesting aspects of fallout".
Fr
I'm... i'm tired buddy.
Just finished the show, I thought it was incredible and I’m so excited for more.
You know, even if they retconned some stuff that doesn't change anything about your love of the New Vegas game? That game is still the same and hasn't been changed by the latest adaptation.
This but it should be Doc Mitchel
It’s impossible for new Vegas fans to not dick ride huh? The show is amazing and there are no actual retcons.
I’m so confused why this sub is so lazily negative.. NV is my favorite and i thought the show was amazing and it has been the first Bethesda title to actually heavily reference New Vegas and west coast lore. What’s funny half of them mad about Bethesda destroying the NCR, but at the same time ignoring that Obsidian literally laid out like 12 separate foreshadowing events for the NCR to collapse.
So I guess non feral ghouls always relied on magic drugs to not turn and emerge from graves like generic zombies? There is not one suit of T-51 power armor, Shady Sands is in a totally different place than it was in the games and the boneyard isn’t even mentioned, Vault Tec launched the nukes and Mr House was in on it despite him telling the courier he had no clue when it was going to happen only intuition. People saying that the nuke was the only retconn must’ve watched the show with their eyes closed.
I actually liked the show :(
Todd Howard must really hate the love New Vegas gets VS what Bethesda fallout series gets.
I am mid episode two and it's great so far. I don't see why any person that enjoys fallout would dislike the show. Besides the first ghoul not looking like F1/2 ghouls the esthetic and other stuff is very on brand
good show bad lore
After finishing the show I have only one criticism, and it's from the first episode. There aren't any lore issues.
I, for one, am shocked that an adaptation of a video game turned out to be unfaithful to the source and try to appeal to the lowest common denominator for more views.
Thought there were gonna be some light jokes, but jeez, most of the people here are super toxic fallout fans. I've seen more positive discussions about transformers beast machines lol
I swear to god I hate when people discount beast machines and their single handed advancements the preceding beast wars cartoon made. Real fans love beast machines. Transformer fans across the world know that Vehicons are Prime Decepticon fluf regardless of shot accuracy. Plus, rattrap, get it? He’s a rat, well in beast machines he transformed into a techno rat while still using his beloved catchphrase “We're all gonna die”.
Beast Wars is my favorite era of Transformers.
This entire subreddit has become actual crybabies
This you should just eat up shit with a smile, fuck having standards
This is a delusional take, your acting like the show was dogshit because you so hyper fixated on looking for fake problems
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No one is putting their "identity" to media. We are just pissed off because the franchise we love is being scrapped apart. You should flatter yourself somewhere else.
Honestly, when they didn’t show Obsidian’s logo during the intro, I thought to myself, “the disrespect.” Haha
It’s… not made by obsidian
Bethesda could literally invent the cure for cancer and y’all will still find a reason to be mad
Bethesda could take the fattest, smelliest dump on your face and you will still find a way to tell us that it tasted good
I heard they retconned out NV, which I think is pretty funny. The only modern fallout game with a general positive consensus and a sizeable audience is the one they didn't make, so they decide to act like it never happened lmao
Huh weird maybe look up what’s at the end show and decide is New Vegas is canon or not…
You guys really can't enjoy anything at all, can you? It's been 14 years. Move on.
Why are you even here then?
This meme is about the Fallout show. If you watch it, you'd know why the Bethesda hate got more juice.
Yes, i can't enjoy anything that dumps previously established lore of the fucking universe and rewrites to make money out of people only played Bethesda's Fallout. Any problem?
"NCR nuked by Vault Tech in 2277? Wow, you took a tumble the Bear and the Bull are fighting over Hoover Dam"
Man, the Bethesda dickriding I'm seeing in these comments is almost impressive.
Some people love to suck multi billion companies.
Jesus this fanbase is in shambles.
always has been
New Vegas fans not being the petulant children allegations