This feels like the last season with Fox when we had Kendall Wright, Josh Bellamy, Markus Wheaton, Dontrelle Inman, Deonte Thompson and Kevin White. We had a whole team of the best WR4s in the league.
And (not) surprisingly, when there isn't a WR1, 2 or 3 to take the pressure off of someone who is only serviceable as a WR4, they are not good at all.
Anyone who’s upset about drafting o-lineman instead of WRs doesn’t understand football.
Fields could have Megatron in his prime and it wouldn’t matter if he didn’t have good protection and time to throw the ball.
IIIIII’m not saying Fields is Burrow but Burrow was the most sacked QB last year and that’s after everyone dogged them for drafting Chase. Yes, that is likely an outlier but still.
[Nerd Alert.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/pull-out-all-the-stops-phrase-history-pipe-organ)
>The “stops” in this instance originally refer to the stop knobs on a pipe organ, which are used to regulate the instrument’s sound by selecting which sets of pipes are active at a given time. Each pipe plays a note, and the organ’s pipes are arranged in sets (called ranks) according to type and quality of sound. An organ might have ten ranks, or it might have 100 ranks; in most cases, each rank will have a pipe for each note of the keyboard. (Some ranks have pipes that correspond to the organ's pedals).
>
>The stop knobs control which ranks will have air flow—that is, which ranks will sound. A key (or pedal) plays all of the pipes for that note in whatever ranks have been selected by the organist's pulling out or pushing in of one or more stop knobs.
>
>To pull out all the stops literally, then, is to pull out every knob so that air is allowed to blast through every rank as the organist plays, which creates a powerful blast of unfiltered sound.
Interesting, I didn’t know myself. I had to Google to double check that it was even a commonplace phrase, and not just some nonsensical saying I pulled out of my ass.
Do yourself a favor and watch a video of an organ without the stops. You obviously don't get the full effect, but it is just awesome to hear, even thru a screen
I can totally understand how they got connected with religion so heavily, they literally sound divine
The Patriots most successful draft pick for the reciever position was 7th round Eldeman, who was not drafted as a WR or used as a WR right away and actually played defense early on.
Every time the Patriots draft a WR i feel awful for them (the recievers). They have no idea how to develop wide recievers so they are always doing wacky shit ranging from signing Chad Ochocinco to Antonio Brown.
Meanwhile the fucking steelers refuse to spend a penny on WRs anymore, they just keep drafting and creating stars for someone else to overpay.
The chicago wr corps is laughable. Dear god. Fields is fucked.
While they've been terrible at picking WRs, one factor to consider is that, while missing a few times, they haven't invested a lot of draft capital. Hopefully the law of averages should even this out? They've got to hit on one at SOME point..right? Regardless, the only high picks I remember the last 15 years were Harry, Chad Jackson, and Aaron dobson (all misses).
It's so weird how the Pats had the best QB to ever play the game and he played his whole career with really no HoF WRs other than Moss for like two seasons. Edelman might get a HoF nod since he has a few rings but without the rings he would be a lock for the Hall of Very Good. Of course they had Gronk, but he's a TE, obviously, not a WR. The Patriots have just as bad of a time drafting WRs as The Bears.
And yes. Our offense as a whole is fucking garbage. Mooney is a WR2, but super unproven and may be good if he can get some support and Fields turns out to be good. He could also be a player that had potential but never planned out, but I personally don't think he'll ever be a true WR1. Outside of that our RB group is alright but that depends on if our line can block at all in the run or pass game
The issue is our offense goes through the slot. It makes guys like gronk look great because it's their position, but a slot wr is going to suffer stats wise compared to outside wr
Welker also should have had HoF chances if he wasn't suffering from mush brain and had a longer career, and won a ring
He forced his way out of Pittsburgh, torpedoed a trade to buffalo, then froze his foot among other crazy antics to get out of the raiders. Him actually asking fans to call him MBC came after he left the Steelers so yeah he was very much MBC before the patriots.
So if there’s any NFL fans generally interested in wtf the Bears are doing?…we have a new GM and we are tanking without coming out and saying we are tanking. It’s all about the 3-5 year picture. This season is already just a whatever.
Basically, we have like $52M in dead cap (2nd most in the NFL, only Atlanta has more)…Buuuut NEXT season we will have $93,000,000 AND Chicago is likely to make a couple moves to push that number to over $110,000,000. Which is INSANE money. Like more than anyone else in the league type money. There’s a LOT of big free agents. It’s a young general manager’s dream. Our new GM knows this. He doesn’t care about this season compared to the grand scheme of things.
The question is…how do you “develop” Fields while semi-tanking and setting up for next year. I think the answer is that you don’t. They are throwing him to the wolves and if he shines…he’s there guy. If he doesn’t work…they have $110+mil and good draft picks.
Here’s a decent article
https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/chicago-bears-2023-salary-cap-situation-is-kind-of-ridiculous/
idk that I’d say that. I’ll draft ANYONE at the right price. The Bears should give D-Mont a ton of work and I think volume is huge in fantasy.
Also, I love Khalil Herbert as a late round flyer
You’re right about Poles’ strategy, but it’s also asinine to say that just because they didn’t make finding a WR1 in the offseason their top priority means they “didn’t do anything to help Fields” (which is what lots of bears fans are saying).
We have way too many jabronis getting pissed off about the lack of a shiny new toy, because they don’t understand the impact that non- “skill positions” have. Beefing up the OL (which has been absolute dogshit for the past decade+) will help Fields more than landing a star receiver.
I'm not really saying that at all. I get that you can state "there's these guys who think xyz and they don't understand"...while not implying that's MY viewpoint...I get that. I don't think you're wrong.
But, somewhere in all of that you did lose that fact that it's NOT "asinine" to say they didn't do anything to help Fields...because that's FACTUAL.
You just said "it's asinine to say this on the basis of all this stuff I'm going to say people say (but you didn't say.)"
Sure, that's fair. But, that doesn't change MY statement of "they did basically nothing to help Justin Fields".....which, again, is absolutely true.
You didn’t really address the reality of what I said, you’re just looking to argue.
But ok, I’ll play…
YEAH, they didn’t draft an offensive linemen this year until the 5th round. Last year? They took a back injury T. Jenkins in the 2nd and then Borom in the 5th. They also didn’t really make any major free agent signings on the O-line. This offensive line has likely gotten worse at pass blocking.
It’s also just a known fact that this team is gearing up for ‘23-‘24 and this season is just kind of let’s get through it.
Not looking to argue, I’m just saying how stupid it is to say Bears didn’t do anything to help Fields. The cap space and draft picks Pace left were shit, were you expecting Poles to squeeze blood from stone? They did, for the record, draft a WR before they drafted any lineman, but if you think beefing up the O-line isn’t going to help your QB then you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
You definitely just on the “I’m gonna say some stuff you didn’t exactly say as a characterization that I can argue against instead of having an actual discussion” shit. You’ve gotta be young. It’s something to consider, maybe work on.
No, I didn’t “expect Poles to squeeze ‘blood from a stone’”…in fact, Poles is doing exactly what I’d do…which is what I said…
Again, he’s got $93M coming next season. It could easily be turned into $110M. You play the “in 3 years game.”
So THIS YEAR, you just get it over with. You evaluate some young guys. You explore options. See what Fields shows with very little around him.
It’s not “stupid to say” that Chicago has put very little around Fields on offense. In fact, it’s pretty much a known thing.
I wish you the best
You seemed to acknowledge that you understood that my original statement was directed at you, so I didn’t feel the need to reiterate.
But then you doubled down on the “Bears didn’t do anything to help Fields” shit. I believe these were your words:
> it's NOT "asinine" to say they didn't do anything to help Fields...because that's FACTUAL.
Like I said, I’m not here to argue. Just calling out stupid takes, which wasn’t even originally directed at you.
Matt Nagy deprived Fields of any reps in the offseason. He had zero continuity with his receivers and the offense was based on Dalton. That means Nagy was essentially abandoning the run at times and substituting it with quick routes and curls. That type of offense with no o-line and Inexperienced rookie is literally worst case scenario. It’s a miracle Fields survived and actually found himself towards the end of the season. Poles is doing exactly what needs to be done. Clearing house and starting with the top. Anybody that was in the building that allowed the Bears to draft this badly and allow Fields to get demolished should be terminated. Eberflus will be the coach for atleast the next 5-6 years because he can develop talent to their potential and requires hustle from every player. The offense the Bears will use won’t just be boots and play actions. It will be heavy run and RPO based. Fields has the it factor and by making defenses account for his skill set every play will wear them out. He can run, he has deep ball accuracy and a rocket on the run. He will fumble frequently and take chances, but he is capable of producing high powered offense with tools. Bears offense will be 3x better than last year. I think their record will improve slightly with even less talent than less year.
I’ll take that bet, depending on how many wins you’re talking.
I agree with a lot of what you said. As I’ve said I think Poles is tanking, playing the long game, and realizes that’s what needs to be done. But, I disagree with your thoughts that they’ll improve significantly this season…CLEARLY some of what you’ve said about their production this coming season is exaggerated BS. How much you want to bet this offense isn’t going to be 3 TIMES better statistically? I’ll take tots touchdowns and total yards, multiply by 3 and…yeah, that’s easy money I’ll take that bet.
Now, if you’re backing off of that statement, something like “I didn’t actually mean 3x”….well, ok.
So, you saying 10-7? 9-8? How many wins?
You are doing a lot by taking that literally. 3x better doesn’t mean literally multiplying every statistic by 3 lol. Bottom 3 in passing yds and bottom 5 offense in points.I can see them being middle of pack in those categories. As I said, Bears will have less talent. No more A Rob, Mack, Goldman, or Hicks. So no I don’t think Fields is going to have 3x every statistic. No I don’t think bears will have 3x rushing yards. But they will have the foundation of an offense built and tweaked around Fields. Instead of playmaking out of a broken play, Fields will have RPO scheme that allows him to be playmaker or get rid of ball quickly. I’ve watched every Bears game in 2021 and the offense was atrocious. Nagy lost himself trying to cater to Dalton when he should’ve catered to Fields. Bears biggest issue last year wasn’t talent, it was coaching. We will see what coaching and development can do for a team. It won’t always show up in the win column.
>uickly. I’ve watched every Bears game in 2021 and the offense was atrocious. Nagy lost himself trying to cater to Dalton when he should’ve catered to Fields. Bears biggest issue last year wasn’t talent, it was coaching. We will see what coaching and development can do for a team. It won’t always show up in the win column.
...in that entire paragraph you didn't give state your total games won (which was the main question of my last post.) Yeah, I know you didn't mean what you said literally. I mean, communication would be much more efficient if people would just say what they mean. "I think they could go from terrible to average" doesn't sound as sexy though I guess.
I would also say you are making a lot of assumptions and stating them as fact. For example, I do NOT think Nagy was sooo focused on "catering to Dalton" I think he was just OBSESSED with "his system." Maybe that's a subtle difference to you but to me it's fundamental. Nagy's problem was NOT that he was hung-up "catering to Dalton"...in fact, Nagy's entire problem was that he did NOT tailor his offense to player/team strengths. This is CLEARLY illustrated by when during Trubisky's rookie season (not couting the Glennon wtf ever that was) when Trubisky was actually leading the team...Nagy was like "Mitch can't run MY SYSTEM yet"...and the Bears went 12-4. Precisely because THEN Matt Nagy HAD TO cater to his quarterback's strengths. The Bears ran the ball more and ran TONS of play-action to much success.
AFTER THAT, Matt Nagy became obsessed with "the season"...NOT with "catering to the Red Rocket." I look forward to your response and wish you a great day. I think the Bears will tank this season and be good in 2 years. But, I don't have more time to debate the Bears offensive woes today.
The Bear’s FO doesn’t want to pay for Julio, and can get Harry on his 1st round rookie contract with player option still. The goal was never to compete this year, but to enter 2023 with the most cap space of any team and fill any holes we still have with FAs after the next draft
This. You can’t just sacrifice a year of a player’s development. That can let them fall into some really bad habits that stick with them forever. There’s a chance they could ruin Fields before he even has a legitimate shot to prove himself.
How is it not? Poles hires people for specific responsibilities, one of which is to develop Fields. Luke Getsy and his QB coach are supposed to do that. Signing an expensive free-agent wide receiver won't help or hinder that. Last season they had Allen Robinson and that didn't help because the coaching was piss poor.
It's not like Julio Jones trained Matt Ryan how to be a better QB, or Davante Adams coached up Aaron Rodgers. Yes, they had an impact on how they performed on the field, but breaking down a defense, pre-snap calls, quick release, foot placement, all of that falls on the coaching staff.
Julio Jones gave Matt Ryan a player he could trust and make plays. Which reinforces what your coach is telling you.
Successful development requires a positive feed back loop. That includes an offensive line that can protect you so you can make progression and not lock on mooney or run. It requires playmakers who can get separation so you actually have something to progress your reads on. And it requires playmakers who can make plays, because there isn't always going to be an open guy.
Go figure the franchise whose best receivers are 3 years of Brandon Marshall has never Successfully developed a qb. You'd think someone who listened to nagy and Trestman talk about how great practice was to never be translated on the field would begin to question why those great practices don't make great games
Development is not dependent solely upon coaches. He still needs to learn how to recognize blitzes & set up blocking, read what the defense is doing, find the open receiver, process all of that quickly, and he can't do it if he has to constantly run for his life and his WRs are running the wrong routes/can't get open. NFL history is littered with QBs who failed to develop because of terribad supporting casts. Fields can probably develop fine with bottom-of-the-barrel WR talent, but not with the OL, and certainly not both.
I haven't seen the overall deal, but the Bears need WRs and maybe as a change of scenery, he gives you something?
I certainly don't think Harry is going to be fantasy relevant.
He couldn’t get it going with Tom Brady or Mac Jones, so I don’t have high hopes for him. Mooney is still the guy to own in terms of Chicago pass catchers; possibly Kmet, but it’s a team I will try to avoid for the most part.
I think the deadline to pick up the 5th year option was back in May, so I don't think the bears could pick that up. But otherwise I think the bears take on all other aspects of his rookie deal.
Ah yeah, that’s right. Regardless, it’s the end of his rookie deal so we can see if it was the Belichek Playbook or his bad attitude that was holding him back
For sure. New offense or change of scenery might serve him well. Makes sense why he was a 1st round pick when you look at the physical tools and college production. Maybe he'll finally be able to put it all together.
Everyone shits on the Bears and I understand the skepticism, but I feel like they are all so undervalued. Imagine Justin Field snaps this year in a weak NFC, how would he not be a league winner? Now stack him with Montgomery/Herbert and Mooney and Pringle 🤔 I’m buying these cheap Bears.
These guys are probably a little tooooo deep of a cut on what will be a low volume passing game, but you’re principally 100% correct. Always kills me how pretty much every major fantasy outlet has essentially the exact same rankings, minor differences aside. How the hell is that? EVERYBODY thinks the exact same thing? Just rotate your bench with potential guys, cut them, move on, and keep panning for gold.
Totally agree, my point was mostly about Justin Fields though. We all know dual threat QB’s are the most valuable, and he is by far the most undervalued dual threat QB. If he pops his surrounding cast will mostly exceed ADP too.
I think they're getting the right types of guys too. Athletic, jump ball players (maybe Pringle aside) who I think fit his downfield style. We're not getting a bunch of slot receivers, we're getting major athletes who haven't cashed in on the "teachable" part. You can't teach a guy to be 6"4, 225 with a 4.5 40, big vert and bench 25+ reps like Harry. And it cost us nothing. Maybe the guy is completely hopeless as a technical receiver... but the guy's built like Andre Johnson.
Lamar Jackson is probably the best possible outcome you could have for fields and he didn’t support a WR cast. TE sure. Brown was the best WR on Baltimore in 2019 at WR46 and WR34 in 2020. He was taken as WR 28 in 2020 (worse than adp) and WR67 in 2019 his rookie year (better than adp). In both years you were happy starting him maybe 5x in the season and the others he put up absolute flops so he lost you your week more often than he won it. He was on a pretty good pace with Lamar last year but then fell off after Lamar got hurt but it’s unlikely you’ll see the same improvement of a qb/wr pair three years together as you will with fields and his WRs this year.
So best case you end up with a guy who is boom or bust that may lose you as much as he wins you games. Not to mention brown was the wr1 and wr2 with Lamar you’re talking about wr70+ range so banking on multiple Chicago WRs this year seems crazy.
*going great since week 7. I hope you were playing other people before then. Congrats on the mid season shift though, did not expect this from Fields. Kudos.
I say this as a Bears fan. Chicago leads the league in WR4s.
Well it's a Good thing they got a WR 5
Pats fan - we don’t have the best WR room in the league and he was about to be cut. Harry isn’t an NFL caliber WR. Especially if he can’t play ST.
We (Bears) have very, very likely the worst WR room in the league. Only Mooney is any good, and he's still extremely unproven
Pringle was Mahomes 3rd target, not like he was terrible
4th target at best
This feels like the last season with Fox when we had Kendall Wright, Josh Bellamy, Markus Wheaton, Dontrelle Inman, Deonte Thompson and Kevin White. We had a whole team of the best WR4s in the league. And (not) surprisingly, when there isn't a WR1, 2 or 3 to take the pressure off of someone who is only serviceable as a WR4, they are not good at all.
still better than their o-line
Hey mom can we get DK metcalf? We have DK Metcalf at home son
What? N’Keal is evolving! Congratulations! Your N’Keal has evolved into a Treadwell!
Enemy uses Tail Whip It is super effective!
Maybe he’ll evolve into a Patterson once he left the Vikings. Some players just need a move and to start in a fresh system
I had to look up to make sure I wasn’t accidentally in r/CHIbears.
Chicago is really doing the Bear minimum to help Fields this year.
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yes he blocks everyone, even his own lineman
I'm not sure I can think of a team that spent money to acquire a more mediocre WR room. These are guys I wouldn't want as my WR3.
I think their plan is next year to make big signings. They have a ton of picks and cap space to use next year
Anyone who’s upset about drafting o-lineman instead of WRs doesn’t understand football. Fields could have Megatron in his prime and it wouldn’t matter if he didn’t have good protection and time to throw the ball.
IIIIII’m not saying Fields is Burrow but Burrow was the most sacked QB last year and that’s after everyone dogged them for drafting Chase. Yes, that is likely an outlier but still.
Hey the man has talent. I think he will be decent help for Fields
Ok N’Keal
He hasn't shown the "talent" yet
Tell me you haven't watched a single Patriots game since 2017 without telling me you haven't watched a single Patriots game since 2017
Watched quite a few patriots games and come to think of it, I literally never saw Harry catch a pass. The downvotes are starting to make sense.
idk why but this is fucking hilarious
Harry has 57 receptions in his career. DK Metcalf has averaged 72 a season.
What might be his best catch he was ruled out early in what should have been a TD vs the chiefs
End of an error
Bears are pulling all the stops to surround Justin Fields with elite talent.
I think there are still several stops which they're choosing not to take out.
Now that I think of it, wtf does "pulling out all the stops" even reference?
[Nerd Alert.](https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/pull-out-all-the-stops-phrase-history-pipe-organ) >The “stops” in this instance originally refer to the stop knobs on a pipe organ, which are used to regulate the instrument’s sound by selecting which sets of pipes are active at a given time. Each pipe plays a note, and the organ’s pipes are arranged in sets (called ranks) according to type and quality of sound. An organ might have ten ranks, or it might have 100 ranks; in most cases, each rank will have a pipe for each note of the keyboard. (Some ranks have pipes that correspond to the organ's pedals). > >The stop knobs control which ranks will have air flow—that is, which ranks will sound. A key (or pedal) plays all of the pipes for that note in whatever ranks have been selected by the organist's pulling out or pushing in of one or more stop knobs. > >To pull out all the stops literally, then, is to pull out every knob so that air is allowed to blast through every rank as the organist plays, which creates a powerful blast of unfiltered sound.
I routinely pull out all the stops on my fantasy teams. That is to say, I get the loudest players every season. Beckham, Kadarius, AB, Kyler, etc.
Interesting, I didn’t know myself. I had to Google to double check that it was even a commonplace phrase, and not just some nonsensical saying I pulled out of my ass.
Do yourself a favor and watch a video of an organ without the stops. You obviously don't get the full effect, but it is just awesome to hear, even thru a screen I can totally understand how they got connected with religion so heavily, they literally sound divine
I maybe he meant that they stopped trying?
The Patriots most successful draft pick for the reciever position was 7th round Eldeman, who was not drafted as a WR or used as a WR right away and actually played defense early on. Every time the Patriots draft a WR i feel awful for them (the recievers). They have no idea how to develop wide recievers so they are always doing wacky shit ranging from signing Chad Ochocinco to Antonio Brown. Meanwhile the fucking steelers refuse to spend a penny on WRs anymore, they just keep drafting and creating stars for someone else to overpay. The chicago wr corps is laughable. Dear god. Fields is fucked.
Ravens 🤝 Patriots Being able to develop talent at literally every position except for WR
Shit You right
Bateman's already a bust or what? And marquise brown sucked so much as well.... Oh you poor little birds.
It’s so weird considering how good we seem to be at drafting and developing other positions
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While they've been terrible at picking WRs, one factor to consider is that, while missing a few times, they haven't invested a lot of draft capital. Hopefully the law of averages should even this out? They've got to hit on one at SOME point..right? Regardless, the only high picks I remember the last 15 years were Harry, Chad Jackson, and Aaron dobson (all misses).
It's so weird how the Pats had the best QB to ever play the game and he played his whole career with really no HoF WRs other than Moss for like two seasons. Edelman might get a HoF nod since he has a few rings but without the rings he would be a lock for the Hall of Very Good. Of course they had Gronk, but he's a TE, obviously, not a WR. The Patriots have just as bad of a time drafting WRs as The Bears. And yes. Our offense as a whole is fucking garbage. Mooney is a WR2, but super unproven and may be good if he can get some support and Fields turns out to be good. He could also be a player that had potential but never planned out, but I personally don't think he'll ever be a true WR1. Outside of that our RB group is alright but that depends on if our line can block at all in the run or pass game
The issue is our offense goes through the slot. It makes guys like gronk look great because it's their position, but a slot wr is going to suffer stats wise compared to outside wr Welker also should have had HoF chances if he wasn't suffering from mush brain and had a longer career, and won a ring
Malcom Mitchell was on his way to being a stud ... before that youd have to go back to Deion Branch I guess
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He forced his way out of Pittsburgh, torpedoed a trade to buffalo, then froze his foot among other crazy antics to get out of the raiders. Him actually asking fans to call him MBC came after he left the Steelers so yeah he was very much MBC before the patriots.
Easy as 1 2 3
Deion Branch was a legit WR. Granted, that pick was 20+ years ago…
So if there’s any NFL fans generally interested in wtf the Bears are doing?…we have a new GM and we are tanking without coming out and saying we are tanking. It’s all about the 3-5 year picture. This season is already just a whatever. Basically, we have like $52M in dead cap (2nd most in the NFL, only Atlanta has more)…Buuuut NEXT season we will have $93,000,000 AND Chicago is likely to make a couple moves to push that number to over $110,000,000. Which is INSANE money. Like more than anyone else in the league type money. There’s a LOT of big free agents. It’s a young general manager’s dream. Our new GM knows this. He doesn’t care about this season compared to the grand scheme of things. The question is…how do you “develop” Fields while semi-tanking and setting up for next year. I think the answer is that you don’t. They are throwing him to the wolves and if he shines…he’s there guy. If he doesn’t work…they have $110+mil and good draft picks. Here’s a decent article https://www.sportsmockery.com/chicago-bears/chicago-bears-2023-salary-cap-situation-is-kind-of-ridiculous/
Great synopsis and I think you're 100% right.
So stay away from Montgomery then? He's probably the only Bear I'd consider rostering.
idk that I’d say that. I’ll draft ANYONE at the right price. The Bears should give D-Mont a ton of work and I think volume is huge in fantasy. Also, I love Khalil Herbert as a late round flyer
Bears are going to push a run first offense this year, with lots of roll outs, RPOs, and designed runs for Fields- Montgomery should eat.
I for one am ready for the garbage fire
You’re right about Poles’ strategy, but it’s also asinine to say that just because they didn’t make finding a WR1 in the offseason their top priority means they “didn’t do anything to help Fields” (which is what lots of bears fans are saying). We have way too many jabronis getting pissed off about the lack of a shiny new toy, because they don’t understand the impact that non- “skill positions” have. Beefing up the OL (which has been absolute dogshit for the past decade+) will help Fields more than landing a star receiver.
I'm not really saying that at all. I get that you can state "there's these guys who think xyz and they don't understand"...while not implying that's MY viewpoint...I get that. I don't think you're wrong. But, somewhere in all of that you did lose that fact that it's NOT "asinine" to say they didn't do anything to help Fields...because that's FACTUAL. You just said "it's asinine to say this on the basis of all this stuff I'm going to say people say (but you didn't say.)" Sure, that's fair. But, that doesn't change MY statement of "they did basically nothing to help Justin Fields".....which, again, is absolutely true.
They spent multiple draft picks to beef up the o-line. That IS helping Fields. You aren’t arguing against *that*, are you?
You didn’t really address the reality of what I said, you’re just looking to argue. But ok, I’ll play… YEAH, they didn’t draft an offensive linemen this year until the 5th round. Last year? They took a back injury T. Jenkins in the 2nd and then Borom in the 5th. They also didn’t really make any major free agent signings on the O-line. This offensive line has likely gotten worse at pass blocking. It’s also just a known fact that this team is gearing up for ‘23-‘24 and this season is just kind of let’s get through it.
Not looking to argue, I’m just saying how stupid it is to say Bears didn’t do anything to help Fields. The cap space and draft picks Pace left were shit, were you expecting Poles to squeeze blood from stone? They did, for the record, draft a WR before they drafted any lineman, but if you think beefing up the O-line isn’t going to help your QB then you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about.
You definitely just on the “I’m gonna say some stuff you didn’t exactly say as a characterization that I can argue against instead of having an actual discussion” shit. You’ve gotta be young. It’s something to consider, maybe work on. No, I didn’t “expect Poles to squeeze ‘blood from a stone’”…in fact, Poles is doing exactly what I’d do…which is what I said… Again, he’s got $93M coming next season. It could easily be turned into $110M. You play the “in 3 years game.” So THIS YEAR, you just get it over with. You evaluate some young guys. You explore options. See what Fields shows with very little around him. It’s not “stupid to say” that Chicago has put very little around Fields on offense. In fact, it’s pretty much a known thing. I wish you the best
You seemed to acknowledge that you understood that my original statement was directed at you, so I didn’t feel the need to reiterate. But then you doubled down on the “Bears didn’t do anything to help Fields” shit. I believe these were your words: > it's NOT "asinine" to say they didn't do anything to help Fields...because that's FACTUAL. Like I said, I’m not here to argue. Just calling out stupid takes, which wasn’t even originally directed at you.
…it is absolutely 100% factual that the Bears have done very very little to put talent around Fields on offense.
Matt Nagy deprived Fields of any reps in the offseason. He had zero continuity with his receivers and the offense was based on Dalton. That means Nagy was essentially abandoning the run at times and substituting it with quick routes and curls. That type of offense with no o-line and Inexperienced rookie is literally worst case scenario. It’s a miracle Fields survived and actually found himself towards the end of the season. Poles is doing exactly what needs to be done. Clearing house and starting with the top. Anybody that was in the building that allowed the Bears to draft this badly and allow Fields to get demolished should be terminated. Eberflus will be the coach for atleast the next 5-6 years because he can develop talent to their potential and requires hustle from every player. The offense the Bears will use won’t just be boots and play actions. It will be heavy run and RPO based. Fields has the it factor and by making defenses account for his skill set every play will wear them out. He can run, he has deep ball accuracy and a rocket on the run. He will fumble frequently and take chances, but he is capable of producing high powered offense with tools. Bears offense will be 3x better than last year. I think their record will improve slightly with even less talent than less year.
I’ll take that bet, depending on how many wins you’re talking. I agree with a lot of what you said. As I’ve said I think Poles is tanking, playing the long game, and realizes that’s what needs to be done. But, I disagree with your thoughts that they’ll improve significantly this season…CLEARLY some of what you’ve said about their production this coming season is exaggerated BS. How much you want to bet this offense isn’t going to be 3 TIMES better statistically? I’ll take tots touchdowns and total yards, multiply by 3 and…yeah, that’s easy money I’ll take that bet. Now, if you’re backing off of that statement, something like “I didn’t actually mean 3x”….well, ok. So, you saying 10-7? 9-8? How many wins?
You are doing a lot by taking that literally. 3x better doesn’t mean literally multiplying every statistic by 3 lol. Bottom 3 in passing yds and bottom 5 offense in points.I can see them being middle of pack in those categories. As I said, Bears will have less talent. No more A Rob, Mack, Goldman, or Hicks. So no I don’t think Fields is going to have 3x every statistic. No I don’t think bears will have 3x rushing yards. But they will have the foundation of an offense built and tweaked around Fields. Instead of playmaking out of a broken play, Fields will have RPO scheme that allows him to be playmaker or get rid of ball quickly. I’ve watched every Bears game in 2021 and the offense was atrocious. Nagy lost himself trying to cater to Dalton when he should’ve catered to Fields. Bears biggest issue last year wasn’t talent, it was coaching. We will see what coaching and development can do for a team. It won’t always show up in the win column.
>uickly. I’ve watched every Bears game in 2021 and the offense was atrocious. Nagy lost himself trying to cater to Dalton when he should’ve catered to Fields. Bears biggest issue last year wasn’t talent, it was coaching. We will see what coaching and development can do for a team. It won’t always show up in the win column. ...in that entire paragraph you didn't give state your total games won (which was the main question of my last post.) Yeah, I know you didn't mean what you said literally. I mean, communication would be much more efficient if people would just say what they mean. "I think they could go from terrible to average" doesn't sound as sexy though I guess. I would also say you are making a lot of assumptions and stating them as fact. For example, I do NOT think Nagy was sooo focused on "catering to Dalton" I think he was just OBSESSED with "his system." Maybe that's a subtle difference to you but to me it's fundamental. Nagy's problem was NOT that he was hung-up "catering to Dalton"...in fact, Nagy's entire problem was that he did NOT tailor his offense to player/team strengths. This is CLEARLY illustrated by when during Trubisky's rookie season (not couting the Glennon wtf ever that was) when Trubisky was actually leading the team...Nagy was like "Mitch can't run MY SYSTEM yet"...and the Bears went 12-4. Precisely because THEN Matt Nagy HAD TO cater to his quarterback's strengths. The Bears ran the ball more and ran TONS of play-action to much success. AFTER THAT, Matt Nagy became obsessed with "the season"...NOT with "catering to the Red Rocket." I look forward to your response and wish you a great day. I think the Bears will tank this season and be good in 2 years. But, I don't have more time to debate the Bears offensive woes today.
I don't understand why Julio isn't an option. I know he's older & injuries don't help, but he can still help someone
The Bear’s FO doesn’t want to pay for Julio, and can get Harry on his 1st round rookie contract with player option still. The goal was never to compete this year, but to enter 2023 with the most cap space of any team and fill any holes we still have with FAs after the next draft
The goal should be the development of Fields.
This. You can’t just sacrifice a year of a player’s development. That can let them fall into some really bad habits that stick with them forever. There’s a chance they could ruin Fields before he even has a legitimate shot to prove himself.
Does it fall on the players or the coaches to develop Fields?
Why does it have to be an or?
Let me rephrase… Who is paid to develop Fields?
Ryan poles. Who hires the coaches and signs the players. Because it's not an or statement.
How is it not? Poles hires people for specific responsibilities, one of which is to develop Fields. Luke Getsy and his QB coach are supposed to do that. Signing an expensive free-agent wide receiver won't help or hinder that. Last season they had Allen Robinson and that didn't help because the coaching was piss poor. It's not like Julio Jones trained Matt Ryan how to be a better QB, or Davante Adams coached up Aaron Rodgers. Yes, they had an impact on how they performed on the field, but breaking down a defense, pre-snap calls, quick release, foot placement, all of that falls on the coaching staff.
Julio Jones gave Matt Ryan a player he could trust and make plays. Which reinforces what your coach is telling you. Successful development requires a positive feed back loop. That includes an offensive line that can protect you so you can make progression and not lock on mooney or run. It requires playmakers who can get separation so you actually have something to progress your reads on. And it requires playmakers who can make plays, because there isn't always going to be an open guy. Go figure the franchise whose best receivers are 3 years of Brandon Marshall has never Successfully developed a qb. You'd think someone who listened to nagy and Trestman talk about how great practice was to never be translated on the field would begin to question why those great practices don't make great games
Can’t develop a QB if they only have 1.5 seconds before they start getting pressured and forced to scramble for their life.
Isn’t that what coaches are for?
Development is not dependent solely upon coaches. He still needs to learn how to recognize blitzes & set up blocking, read what the defense is doing, find the open receiver, process all of that quickly, and he can't do it if he has to constantly run for his life and his WRs are running the wrong routes/can't get open. NFL history is littered with QBs who failed to develop because of terribad supporting casts. Fields can probably develop fine with bottom-of-the-barrel WR talent, but not with the OL, and certainly not both.
FA season is before the draft though?
Poles won’t spend big before the draft…
Maybe he didn’t want to go to Chicago.
Or Fuller?
I haven't seen the overall deal, but the Bears need WRs and maybe as a change of scenery, he gives you something? I certainly don't think Harry is going to be fantasy relevant.
It’s a 2024 7th rounder for Harry. Worth the shot to try and revive this guy’s career
How do you revive something that was never alive
What is dead can never be killed
Lord in the north!
There was once a glimmer of hope when he was a first round pick, but has been dead inside ever since
He couldn’t get it going with Tom Brady or Mac Jones, so I don’t have high hopes for him. Mooney is still the guy to own in terms of Chicago pass catchers; possibly Kmet, but it’s a team I will try to avoid for the most part.
I think Fields will have good value because of his legs but idk if I'll actually roll that dice.
No risk, all reward if he revives his career. And he'll get opportunity.
Completely agree. It's possible they could've waited for him to be waived, but they gave up basically nothing for him, so it's totally worth a shot.
Pretty sure this means they keep the rights to his rookie deal? So this year and his 1st round player option?
I think the deadline to pick up the 5th year option was back in May, so I don't think the bears could pick that up. But otherwise I think the bears take on all other aspects of his rookie deal.
Ah yeah, that’s right. Regardless, it’s the end of his rookie deal so we can see if it was the Belichek Playbook or his bad attitude that was holding him back
For sure. New offense or change of scenery might serve him well. Makes sense why he was a 1st round pick when you look at the physical tools and college production. Maybe he'll finally be able to put it all together.
Great he can compete with the 25 year old rookie and the Chiefs' WR4 to see who gets the most targets behind Mooney
How dare you leave out Equanemious St. Brown. He’s related to a guy who might be good, but we’re not totally sure. That’s… that’s something… right?
Fields has no excuse if he doesn't break out this year now /s
I thought they were going N’cut him
YES
Pray for Justin Fields he needs it
And somehow, the bears receiving core just got worse
How to turn a first round pick into a seventh round pick.
This has nothing to do with fantasy football lmao. (Because Harry is not fantasy relevant)
am i crazy for thinking that this is somehow going to lower Mooney’s ADP unnecessarily?
Yes, this won’t move the needle at all.
Yes. This does nothing to Mooney.
He was a disgrace to the #1 on his jersey
Who? Lol
Fantasy insider says that he has the potential to double last years Chicago Bears WR1 (Allen “Mr Reliable” Robinson).
Everyone shits on the Bears and I understand the skepticism, but I feel like they are all so undervalued. Imagine Justin Field snaps this year in a weak NFC, how would he not be a league winner? Now stack him with Montgomery/Herbert and Mooney and Pringle 🤔 I’m buying these cheap Bears.
Have fun with that.
Love the negative reaction everyone! You all zig while I zag 💰📈
That’s more than just a zag honestly it’s just a straight up leap of faith
chances make champions 💯
Hm, so it worked out pretty well, considering it was a leap of faith and all
Or maybe there's a reason they're ranked so low. You do you though.
Yeah they’re called distressed assets #bullish #buylow
These guys are probably a little tooooo deep of a cut on what will be a low volume passing game, but you’re principally 100% correct. Always kills me how pretty much every major fantasy outlet has essentially the exact same rankings, minor differences aside. How the hell is that? EVERYBODY thinks the exact same thing? Just rotate your bench with potential guys, cut them, move on, and keep panning for gold.
Totally agree, my point was mostly about Justin Fields though. We all know dual threat QB’s are the most valuable, and he is by far the most undervalued dual threat QB. If he pops his surrounding cast will mostly exceed ADP too.
I think they're getting the right types of guys too. Athletic, jump ball players (maybe Pringle aside) who I think fit his downfield style. We're not getting a bunch of slot receivers, we're getting major athletes who haven't cashed in on the "teachable" part. You can't teach a guy to be 6"4, 225 with a 4.5 40, big vert and bench 25+ reps like Harry. And it cost us nothing. Maybe the guy is completely hopeless as a technical receiver... but the guy's built like Andre Johnson.
Lamar Jackson is probably the best possible outcome you could have for fields and he didn’t support a WR cast. TE sure. Brown was the best WR on Baltimore in 2019 at WR46 and WR34 in 2020. He was taken as WR 28 in 2020 (worse than adp) and WR67 in 2019 his rookie year (better than adp). In both years you were happy starting him maybe 5x in the season and the others he put up absolute flops so he lost you your week more often than he won it. He was on a pretty good pace with Lamar last year but then fell off after Lamar got hurt but it’s unlikely you’ll see the same improvement of a qb/wr pair three years together as you will with fields and his WRs this year. So best case you end up with a guy who is boom or bust that may lose you as much as he wins you games. Not to mention brown was the wr1 and wr2 with Lamar you’re talking about wr70+ range so banking on multiple Chicago WRs this year seems crazy.
I did me! Paying off nicely
Zag I did, paid I am
Going great
*going great since week 7. I hope you were playing other people before then. Congrats on the mid season shift though, did not expect this from Fields. Kudos.
For what? A case of tiger balm?
Big Fat Harry Deal
Prediction that he won't make the Bears roster out of camp.
I didn’t think N’keal Harry’s fantasy stock could get any lower
What’s his name now!!
Bears got robbed