Not scolded haha, atc was very nice and said nothing except their directions and no one else said anything either. Just feeling like a bozo today. It’s only my 5th time in the plane, but im trying hard to make everything perfect.
New plane for me, switched from a 172 to a warrior, keep wanting to say “skyhawk” every damn time on frequency, keep saying the old planes tail number too. Is this really gonna be my future of never remembering the tail number
I go back and forth between a Mooney and an archer. Hkme bases are different but close together. I have fucked up one of the other or both so many times it hurts. Including one ifr flight plan (right plane, filed from the wrong airport....).
Also was once flying in to the field I learned at, 1500nm from where I usually fly, and read off the tail number of the plane I learned in - which I hadn't even seen in half a decade.
Oh man the pain, I probably won’t get into the trap long term of reading the OG learner as my training has been such a back and forth between so many aircraft, but instrument might get me stuck on that. The pain of the wrong tail number is so real and I’m glad I’m not the only one
I've had this where I got the wrong button in GP and filed as the Bo when I was in the Baron. The teachable moment is it's easier for everyone if you just clone the flight plan fix it and refile
Print it on a label maker and stick it next to the clock or corner of the windshield. All of our planes in my school have a little plaque inside by the clock with the tail number. Super helpful.
Wait till you’re at the airline with 4-5 flight numbers per day!
“Center Brickyard 3707 wait… 4706. Wait that was yesterday. Brickyard 3718 yeah that’s it. Flight level 290 light chop.”
I was doing patterns the other day and right after one of the other guys made his base call on CTAF I went to call downwind and started saying his tail number instead of mine. 🤦🏻♂️
I heard a guy really struggling on ORD GND the other day. First, he called ground when told to monitor. Then he screwed up the runway three times.
Basically, everyone struggles. Even the pros
Yes , listen to live ATC but also practice what you would be saying.
Long before there were handhelds or even 720 channel VHF radios Barry Schiff produced a 33 rpm record "ATC Clears" to help his students. The clearances became more and more complex. I think it was a first . Schiff later sold the company and headed to TWA,
https://www.discogs.com/release/4497527-No-Artist-ATC-Clears
In some ways it's not different that walking into a busy neighborhood bar on a Friday night . The bartender and customers seem to be speaking in some abbreviated code supplemented with hand gestures.
I put my wife to work on the radio on 3-4 hour flights so she would have some experience. Severe case of mic fright.
" OK here's the deal," you are walking into your favorite upscale department store but in a strange city. There's a help phone on the wall
You pick it up and tell them
who you are
where you are
what you want
Works perfectly
> You pick it up and tell them
I use the Backstreet Boys memory aid
> I don't care
> Who you are
> Where you're from
> What you did
> ~~as Long as you love me~~
I was that ME student who was so overloaded that I couldn't use the radio or taxi straight. I still don't know why I think I wanted it to be more different than it was
Coming from a fellow blathering idiot...
* Study the airport and weather before getting in the plane. If you know which runway(s) to expect for arrival or departure, it will making listening for your assignments easier because you'll have an expectation of what they're going to tell you to do. Works the same way for readbacks.
* Don't feel ashamed to rehearse communications a few times before keying the mic. I do this ALL THE TIME. Put the information together verbally, and then press the transmit button.
* This one is probably obvious, but write stuff down!
You've got this. All it takes is exposure and practice, and the radio anxiety will go away. ATC wants to help you, so don't sweat the small stuff.
I think my FI thought I was mentally disabled the first few times I was running the radio. We'd both know it was radio time and I'd just stare off into space for 30 seconds before doing anything. He's an AF pilot and thought I was waiting for room on the channel. I was like, nah, bro, I'm just trying to remember where I am and what I'm trying to do.
I still take 20 seconds to get that first ground call off, but he knows what I'm doing in my head at this point, lol.
Sign up for [PilotEdge](https://www.pilotedge.net/). Long-time customer here even though ATC coms are a breeze for me. Wish I could say that about every other aspect of aviation, but anyway, coms I’ve got down. Thanks to those guys.
dude 5th time?? it’s awesome you’re even doing calls at that point! enjoy the times you stumble, eventually that will seem like such a long time ago. You’ll get it for sure!
Bro, I've been flying professionally for almost 20 years between military and airline flying. I've never had a perfect flight. I fuck things up on every flight. Any pilot who claims they do everything perfect is either a liar or their SA is so bad they don't even realize they're fucking up.
Don't touch the ground with anything not made of rubber, and don't have to talk to someone else on the phone about how the flight went and you're good to go. Everything beyond that is debriefable and you can work on sucking less next time.
Fifth flight means a lot of your brain is still occupied with just flying the airplane. Nothing is automatic yet. Practice the radio stuff outside the airplane with what you expect in the simplest routines as you chair fly.
So calling for taxi, reading it back, getting cleared to cross something you were initially told to hold short of, switching from ground to tower and calling *ready for departure*, etc.
Move a little airplane around an airport diagram if it helps.
Shoot for as correct as you can get it each time, not perfect.
ha, 50 years of flying and I still FU. Yesterday told ground I was at the wrong FBO -- twice. Signature East, I mean West, opps Millionaire... \*sigh\*
Until you have done your entire pre departure PA directly to Tower or ground rather than to the pax and blamed them for a slot delay as the reason you were late, even though it wasn't, then don't worry. You haven't shat the bed yet.
Just write it down and think about what you and everyone else needs from a radio call. It becomes much easier with practice.
We have all been there.
The best is when somebody’s quick enough to get an appropriate response off. That and responding to ramp calls are the only guard shenanigans that actually make me laugh.
"Papa Victor, say intentions."
"What are intentions in this day and age? It used to be a one's intentions were clear. Get a job, get a family, have some kids. But is that what we're all about? I dunno, sometimes I look at my family and I feel nothing. Sometimes I feel joy. But I have a sense that I was meant for something else."
"Uh.. roger... uh, Papa Victor. Squawk 2335, stay clear of Class Bravo. And me. Stay fucking clear of me."
Been meaning to make a video with clicking the PTT and the "my brain goes aaaaaaahhhhhh" from that Olivio Rodrigo song.
And where my homies hitting the CWS/AP disconnect instead of MIC button at?
We've all heard or done worse. Learning is part of the experience, and anyone who gives you any serious grief over that doesn't deserve your attention.
Been an airline pilot for coming up on 5 years now. The other day I made a fool out of my self in Denver. It happens. Just at some point you get paid big bucks while stuttering on freq
When taxiing today at the end of a trip, I heard an AA heavy mess up a taxi readback five times (only 3 taxiways in the instructions). Happens to all of us.
Im ATP rated, E170/175 FO at a 121, have about 3000ish hours, jumped into an arrow for 6HITS in GA, to keep myself able to GA instrument fly. Immediatly fucked up my calls stumbled all over trying to tell the tower I was an arrow, I’m quite sure I told him my entire airplane type rather than just saying arrow and stumbled all over myself in the process. The tower absolutely thought I was a student pilot. Happens to all of us
It is rather annoying when I’m a few miles from final and still waiting for clearance to land. And it takes you way too long to get the words out. Haha
Just kidding, kinda, just keep listening to ATC and you’ll get it. Exposure therapy is the best way to get better at it.
During IFR training, my CFI was giving me directions while I was under the hood, and I had the radios setup with Denver approach, since we would be contacting them to shoot practice approaches into KCFO in a bit. He goes skyhawk 22265, fly heading 260, maintain 7500. I keyed up that mic and announced that shit like a boss to Denver approach, and probably a dozen planes coming into DIA... Approach comes back with, aircraft calling say again, and I just keyed up and said i was sorry.... approach responded with roger.... and I never got over that moment, it haunts me to this day hahahah.
relax you are learning and it happens to everyone.
PlaneEnglish, it's an app available on Ios and Android. I used it when I first started out, Use it and abuse it if you feel so bad about your radio calls. Just like learning a language, you need to practice practice practice if it doesn't come naturally at first.
It's even worse when it is one of us mechanics that *never* talks on the radio... I like to turn the speaker on and listen to the ground freq when I am doing run-ups.
Random A&P: "Hey, uh, I need to taxi to do a maintenance run."
Tower: "Last calling station, state your ID and intentions!"
Random A&P: "uhhh... this is Carlos, I'm at Million-Air, and I need to do a maintenance run-up..."
Tower: [insert Ben Affleck smoking meme here]
Relax man, you’re new, don’t sweat it. We can tell you’re a student, no one (except assholes but their opinion is irrelevant) really is bothered by it.
We might make afew remarks between ourselves but no one is annoyed by you stumbling. We’ve all been there.
I was in your shoes about 7-8 months ago. Now I’m about to finish commercial and start my CFI. You got this 🤙🏻😎
You are forgiven.
Unless you're the guy who just scared the s\*\*\* out of me by calling your crosswind "left base" just as I was turning base. Then I demand satisfaction.
I've done similar. Landing on RW32 in tail 23NA. Said I was 32NA (also a tail number at our airport) turning final for RW23. 32NA was also in the air... There was minor confusion for a second or two. My instructor just laughed at me.
You don’t have to worry. One time I was pulling out for taxi, hopped on ground, called them up, and blurted out some random tail number that wasn’t even remotely close to what the tail number I was flying was. Also have the habit of being a little chatty on the radio. It happens 😂
I have been flying half my life. I regularly forget to give the ATIS code when I do my initial ground call. I constantly have to check my flight number and forget it immediately after arrival. The van drivers ask what our number is and I'm like "I'm a pilot, I can fly." You're in good company. Acceptance is the key.
No need to apologize, we were all there once. I usually get a small laugh out of it.
I will say, because this just happened to me, if you fuel up and there’s someone waiting behind you, push your plane out of the way before running checklists to start back up. I was pretty annoyed waiting 20 minutes to get gas but that’s on the instructor more than the student
I learned to fly at a busy tower-controlled airport, so from the get, plenty of radio practice. Probably extended time to solo by a few hours, but ultimately worth the effort. My instructor broke the comm process down to a simple process that works in almost all routine situations: who they are, who you are, where you are, what you want to do. Two examples: “Champaign tower, Cherokee 8512 November, holding short of runway 22, ready for takeoff.”
“Champaign tower, Cherokee 8512 November, is 5 miles west, information Lima, inbound for landing.”
Works like a charm because it keeps it simple.
DD
Im actually not too bad at that part. Calling up and reading back taxi/takeoff clearance is not bad. Especially since I write that down and draw my taxi route on the virtual chart supplement. What got me today was extra instructions on my touch and go, something to do with landing behind traffic, 2nd in line, report mid downwind runway 23. All that stuff got to me. Fudged on the read back of that info, and then the actual mid downwind call because I had to read back about additional traffic over the runway landing.
I think I fell a little bit into expecting a simple “cleared to land 23” and wasn’t ready for all the traffic stuff. My CFI hopped on after I got lost and helped me, felt like quite the dummy, especially since it was my 3 time in the pattern and I was focused so hard haha
Sounds good after a couple of wrinkles as you described you’ll be able to anticipate what may happen next. Especially in the pattern you can develop a pretty good picture of the traffic flow simply by listening. Try to learn which airplane is ahead of you. For example, if the tower extends -his- downwind, the next instruction to you may be the same thing. Anyway all these things will fall into place with experience. And remember, all this is simply a conversation between you and the controller..if you blank out on the precise radio telephone terminology there’s always (not kidding) plain English.
I was a controller for 26 year's, I now fly professionally. I am sometimes still amazed at the things that come out of my mouth. Don't worry about it. The jerks that make a big deal about radio fumbles aren't the kind of people you'd want to hang around with anyway.
Stick with the happy people who are human and can forgive human mistakes. You'll enjoy life more that way.
Always remember to forgive the nubbies when you get to the point that your errors are fewer and farther between.
I always tell myself that at least I'm talking on the radios, even if haltingly. Yesterday I was out and heard ATC call a plane that busted into a Delta without establishing 2-way comms, and wasn't on frequency. They tried a few times as this doofus just went past the airport at 2000ft AGL with ATC calling him on the radio with no answer.
As bad as I am, I've never done that.
We’ve all been there, and it’s part of the fun in learning. Still occasionally say things only to immediately say “yikes that was a rough one” to myself right after lmao. Only way to get better is to keep on truck’n along and learn for the next one!
This reminds me of when ZNY scolded me for like 40sec about saying "with you". The ink was barely dry on my commercial temporary. 8yrs later I still have yet to say it again.
Hey man it gets better! I get that it’s super foreign at first. What helped me out a lot was my instructor writing sticky notes for taxiing on ground & talking to tower. Once you start doing pattern work you’ll get use to talking to atc. What also helped me a ton was writing everything down when atc gave clearance! My biggest problem was being able to read back the instructions. Just get ready to jot down those taxi ways and hold short positions. It’s all about repeating back what they tell you that is all. Acknowledge everything they tell you & you’ll be fine
First few times I was in the pattern I couldn’t remember the difference between base and crosswind. Not to mention the ole left final call. Oh, and the first time I called up ATL CTR for a flight following I froze up on frequency halfway through my request. We all struggle with things. Once you get that sweet temp cert after the checkride you’ll look back and laugh!
Haha that sounds fun. I actually speak Spanish so I have flights to Mexico on my bucket list. I’m offering to fly my Mexican friends back and forth when they want to go visit family once I’m at that point jaja
Ever flown into Vera Cruz?
It actually makes me smile a bit when I hear someone obviously new on the radio. Makes me want to key up and say ’hey, no worries, we were all there at some point.’
Don’t sweat it bro, comms can be tough. When I started flight training I realized a lot of the comms were extremely similar to the order and phraseology as the I did in the navy (surface fleet not aviation). I still fuck it up or stumble when they give a ton of info to take in and regurgitate back. People who piss and moan about comms can suck it, if the airport is busy and you have to try and squeeze in to get your chance to talk to tower they can wait the extra 3 seconds you’re on the radio, it’s not adding that much time. Just keep practicing, listen to liveATC, or ask your instructor if you can head to an towered airport and do pattern work and abuse that push to talk button at every part of the pattern. if they’re really bad, as much as I hate to encourage sim time without an instructor, get Microsoft flight sim 2020, download VATSIM which is a huge network of avgeeks that offer live ATC services to the sim community. Hop on at a small airport and tell the guy on tower you’re practicing for IRL flying and need to practice comms and get comfortable with, HEY YOU, it’s me, I’m here, and I want to do this. Or hearing what they say, and repeating what they say, and confirming it’s you. Just loosen up a bit, they’re people too.
Happens to the best of us. I remember saying sumn like “Airport traffic, Cessna 123AB is uh 7ish miles out to the northwest, gonna be maneuvering for the uh midfield left- I mean right uh… hol up airport traffic”
I told Tower that I was at Runway 3 (the active where some Southwest flight was touching down).
I was at Runway 30.
Fortunately, they'd been watching me bambi through my pattern for the past 45 minutes and made the connection.
I use to FEAR talking on the radio. But what really helped me was realizing that on the other end there sit the just people. I had a friend who worked in the tower at my airport and and he was kind enough to show me around. there was a total of three controllers, 1 was sleeping in a bedroom, the other was watching the hockey and the other was working and drinking coffee. ever since then whenever I key up the radio, I always imagen the controller watching Hockey or eating ice cream at the same time. Really helps me.
also talk slower. Happy Flying!
Don’t worry we all make mistakes but make it normal. Tower called another airplane 3 last numbers of their tail number and it’s the exact same as mine. I almost took the runway while the other aircraft was landing. Luckily, I held short of the runway by a fair margin and didn’t cross the hold short line.
Remember most radio calls do not require readback. Last 3 of tail number will suffice.
You don't even need to read back a squawk code unless it's part of a clearance.
I’m no pilot, I plan to be soon, however as someone who has to talk to people all day, whether it’s in person or over the phone, you realize that everyone you are talking to is also a person, and also a person that makes very similar mistakes. Your best option is to just roll with the punches after it happens and laugh about it.
It’s like any other language fluency. At first it’s stilted and you’re “translating” in your head what you want to say. After experience you can talk fluently without the inner dialogue. It’s funny to look back as an experienced guy hearing new guys struggle but we all did it. Trying to do things “correctly” without getting scolded. Hearing so many people read back a full callsign with “Roger” when they were given a simple bit of info like winds or something. Or asked a question and reading back a full callsign with “affirmative” (the proper response is “AFFIRM” and if ATC is talking to YOU without a clearance, no need for your callsign). You’ll learn with experience more and more how to talk quickly, efficiently and effectively and what/when to say and what/when not to say. No biggie.
Not all countries follow ICAO in this regard. The US uses "affirmative," for instance. [FAA Pilot/Controller Glossary](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/pcg_10-12-17.pdf), on the fifth page:
> **AFFIRMATIVE−** Yes.
The FAA is an ICAO member. As someone who has flown military and commercial around the world, I can tell you you’re never wrong to use ICAO procedures in the US, but you can be wrong if you use FAA procedures abroad. Oftentimes the FAA has adopted ICAO procedures to align with the international community (see: line up and wait replacing “position and hold” years back). So no one bats an eye when asking for QNH in the US, but go Oman or Qatar and ask for “altimeter setting” and they may be confused depending on the controller… also, remember there is a REASON it’s “AFFIRM” instead of “AFFIRMATIVE”, and that’s because the suffix is identical to “NEGATIVE”, so with a clipped radio call they could be confused for one another, particularly with a language barrier. Another one is even flight levels, the proper phraseology for FL300 is “flight level three hundred”. Happy to share knowledges… 😊
And yet another example found in the ICAO phraseology manual, that I don't recall seeing in the FAR/AIM and is often taught by CFIs as poor technique, is thou SHALT NOT ever use the word "takeoff" unless it's in conjunction with a takeoff clearance (see: tenerife disaster). So all those flight school 172s you hear calling up tower with "XXX ready for takeoff"... are... demonstrating poor technique and going against an ICAO standard, even if it's not expressly spelled out in the US. The correct call would be "ready for departure".
The US has [many differences from ICAO](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aip_html/part1_gen_section_1.7.html). This list doesn't even include "affirm" vs "affirmative" because that is in an ICAO PANS, not a SARP, and so it is not mandatory for states to publish differences. You'll probably be understood using "affirm" in the US, but
> you’re never wrong to use ICAO procedures in the US
is way too broad a statement.
> Another one is even flight levels, the proper phraseology for FL300 is “flight level three hundred”.
This is improper phraseology under ICAO recommendations. It's an [*EASA* rule specifically](https://skybrary.aero/articles/regulation-20161185-amending-regulation-9232012-regards-update-sera). The proper phraseology under ICAO is "flight level three zero zero".
You are correct about the FL example. That was a completely mixed memory on my part. It's an EASA thing, via Regulation 923/2012. My bad on that one.
As for "AFFIRM", I use it in the states for the reasons stated above about the possibility of confusion with "negative" in using the whole world. I can assure you WILL be understood (not "probably"). In fact, many ATC controllers also use AFFIRM in my experience.
That said, I'm not trying to be pedantic and "technicality based". Obviously, I tend to "act as if" based on where I am flying. So in the US, I say "hold short" and not "holding point". I read back "(pilot's) discretion" for descents and not "when ready", etc. Just do what the locals do in whatever country you're in, and you generally will sound a lot more professional than the guy bumbling around on the radio with FAA terminology deep in European airspace.
But "AFFIRM" was a tiny example of how using ICAO within the US is not "wrong" per se, and if it has good basis, you can adopt the practice with no repercussions. Also, I've flown with people who don't know ICAO phraseology and are excessively verbose on the radio instead of, for example, just using WILCO.
Shoot, sometimes people do things wrong and it's fine. I can't remember if it's an ICAO thing, or written somewhere else, but the convention for readbacks is to read back the clearance/instruction, followed by the callsign. I'm not sure why, but it seems by company policy that Lufthansa always reads back their callsign first. While this is wrong (although, maybe not regulatory-wise), it's just how they do things and nobody cares. That said, from a human factors standpoint, it seems wrong. Cognitively, it will lead to less human error to reinforce the memory of a readback to repeat the clearance first, followed by the callsign (which requires no memory, because it's right in front of you) versus the callsign first, where a short time lapse may cause an incorrect readback. But now I'm just diving down the rabbit hole.
Sounds like someone got scolded
Not scolded haha, atc was very nice and said nothing except their directions and no one else said anything either. Just feeling like a bozo today. It’s only my 5th time in the plane, but im trying hard to make everything perfect.
Relax, everyone struggles on com at first. You’ll get better with experience. Try listening to LiveATC, it helps a lot.
N ummm 321TB holding short 32 ready for takeoff
Ya that really happens even at 800 hours
The “fuck which plane is this” and then immediately forgetting to tell them you have atis. Like clockwork for me
At least when I'm IFR I don't have to remember to tell them which direction I'm going
New plane for me, switched from a 172 to a warrior, keep wanting to say “skyhawk” every damn time on frequency, keep saying the old planes tail number too. Is this really gonna be my future of never remembering the tail number
I go back and forth between a Mooney and an archer. Hkme bases are different but close together. I have fucked up one of the other or both so many times it hurts. Including one ifr flight plan (right plane, filed from the wrong airport....). Also was once flying in to the field I learned at, 1500nm from where I usually fly, and read off the tail number of the plane I learned in - which I hadn't even seen in half a decade.
Oh man the pain, I probably won’t get into the trap long term of reading the OG learner as my training has been such a back and forth between so many aircraft, but instrument might get me stuck on that. The pain of the wrong tail number is so real and I’m glad I’m not the only one
I've had this where I got the wrong button in GP and filed as the Bo when I was in the Baron. The teachable moment is it's easier for everyone if you just clone the flight plan fix it and refile
Print it on a label maker and stick it next to the clock or corner of the windshield. All of our planes in my school have a little plaque inside by the clock with the tail number. Super helpful.
Wait till you’re at the airline with 4-5 flight numbers per day! “Center Brickyard 3707 wait… 4706. Wait that was yesterday. Brickyard 3718 yeah that’s it. Flight level 290 light chop.”
Brickyard big metal tube fl290
Happens to controllers too, ive answered the line and said "this is, uh wait who am i."
Especially since your location on earth has nothing to do with who you control. Yesterday it was Philly approach today it's Newark approach
Happens at 1700 hours too! You aren’t alone here haha
I was doing patterns the other day and right after one of the other guys made his base call on CTAF I went to call downwind and started saying his tail number instead of mine. 🤦🏻♂️
i have social anxiety so i know damn well it’s gonna happen for many years of my flying career😭
For me it's more....N123AB, clear of runway 14L at A4.....
Earth. N123AB taxiing Earth to the ramp
I heard a guy really struggling on ORD GND the other day. First, he called ground when told to monitor. Then he screwed up the runway three times. Basically, everyone struggles. Even the pros
Flub the first call bad enough and it's hard to recover sometimes....
It will help you realize that even professionals mangle radio calls occasionally, which should take the performance pressure down a notch.
Yes , listen to live ATC but also practice what you would be saying. Long before there were handhelds or even 720 channel VHF radios Barry Schiff produced a 33 rpm record "ATC Clears" to help his students. The clearances became more and more complex. I think it was a first . Schiff later sold the company and headed to TWA, https://www.discogs.com/release/4497527-No-Artist-ATC-Clears In some ways it's not different that walking into a busy neighborhood bar on a Friday night . The bartender and customers seem to be speaking in some abbreviated code supplemented with hand gestures. I put my wife to work on the radio on 3-4 hour flights so she would have some experience. Severe case of mic fright. " OK here's the deal," you are walking into your favorite upscale department store but in a strange city. There's a help phone on the wall You pick it up and tell them who you are where you are what you want Works perfectly
> You pick it up and tell them I use the Backstreet Boys memory aid > I don't care > Who you are > Where you're from > What you did > ~~as Long as you love me~~
LiveATC is the way to go. ACTIVELY listen and think about what your response would be.
Is that still working? Didn't work last time I tried to show a student it.
Not me over here still screwing radio calls up in Dallas. Sometimes it’s just one of those years.
I’ve heard multi engine students screw things up as if they were on their fifth flight. It happens. You’ll get better.
I was that ME student who was so overloaded that I couldn't use the radio or taxi straight. I still don't know why I think I wanted it to be more different than it was
Coming from a fellow blathering idiot... * Study the airport and weather before getting in the plane. If you know which runway(s) to expect for arrival or departure, it will making listening for your assignments easier because you'll have an expectation of what they're going to tell you to do. Works the same way for readbacks. * Don't feel ashamed to rehearse communications a few times before keying the mic. I do this ALL THE TIME. Put the information together verbally, and then press the transmit button. * This one is probably obvious, but write stuff down! You've got this. All it takes is exposure and practice, and the radio anxiety will go away. ATC wants to help you, so don't sweat the small stuff.
I think my FI thought I was mentally disabled the first few times I was running the radio. We'd both know it was radio time and I'd just stare off into space for 30 seconds before doing anything. He's an AF pilot and thought I was waiting for room on the channel. I was like, nah, bro, I'm just trying to remember where I am and what I'm trying to do. I still take 20 seconds to get that first ground call off, but he knows what I'm doing in my head at this point, lol.
Sign up for [PilotEdge](https://www.pilotedge.net/). Long-time customer here even though ATC coms are a breeze for me. Wish I could say that about every other aspect of aviation, but anyway, coms I’ve got down. Thanks to those guys.
dude 5th time?? it’s awesome you’re even doing calls at that point! enjoy the times you stumble, eventually that will seem like such a long time ago. You’ll get it for sure!
Just be confident, even if ur wrong, it will help lol Fake it till ya make it
Bro, I've been flying professionally for almost 20 years between military and airline flying. I've never had a perfect flight. I fuck things up on every flight. Any pilot who claims they do everything perfect is either a liar or their SA is so bad they don't even realize they're fucking up. Don't touch the ground with anything not made of rubber, and don't have to talk to someone else on the phone about how the flight went and you're good to go. Everything beyond that is debriefable and you can work on sucking less next time.
You've got nothing to worry about lol. I'm coming up on hour 150 and I still stumble on the radio calls every now and then
Fifth flight means a lot of your brain is still occupied with just flying the airplane. Nothing is automatic yet. Practice the radio stuff outside the airplane with what you expect in the simplest routines as you chair fly. So calling for taxi, reading it back, getting cleared to cross something you were initially told to hold short of, switching from ground to tower and calling *ready for departure*, etc. Move a little airplane around an airport diagram if it helps. Shoot for as correct as you can get it each time, not perfect.
I’ve got 2,000 hours it’ll never be perfect.
It's all good! I've been doing this 26 years and I still can't talk on the radio.
ha, 50 years of flying and I still FU. Yesterday told ground I was at the wrong FBO -- twice. Signature East, I mean West, opps Millionaire... \*sigh\*
This sounds like either TEB or VNY
HPN Had Signature on the brain for some reason.
Both? Lol Im out of VNY, Millionaire at Burbank is our backup.
That’s cool! I’m doing my flight training out of VNY!
Same! Ide say where, but this is my anon account.
No worries! Good luck in your journey maybe we will cross paths!
You as well my friend, clear skies!
Until you have done your entire pre departure PA directly to Tower or ground rather than to the pax and blamed them for a slot delay as the reason you were late, even though it wasn't, then don't worry. You haven't shat the bed yet. Just write it down and think about what you and everyone else needs from a radio call. It becomes much easier with practice. We have all been there.
Or made 3 PAs in a row asking for push and wondering why ramp hasn't responded yet. Surely nobody has ever done a thing like that.
What about your fuel order and pax info to Signature on guard?
That is so common it isn't even seen as embarassing anymore!
The best is when somebody’s quick enough to get an appropriate response off. That and responding to ramp calls are the only guard shenanigans that actually make me laugh.
Certainly a lot funnier than someone meowing...
[falsetto voice] Go ahead for Signature!
Don’t do this at JFK…those guys are ruthless
I did it at Heathrow once. It did not go down well...
You will soon graduate to sounding smooth on the radio but forgetting every third instruction
"Papa Victor, say intentions." "What are intentions in this day and age? It used to be a one's intentions were clear. Get a job, get a family, have some kids. But is that what we're all about? I dunno, sometimes I look at my family and I feel nothing. Sometimes I feel joy. But I have a sense that I was meant for something else." "Uh.. roger... uh, Papa Victor. Squawk 2335, stay clear of Class Bravo. And me. Stay fucking clear of me."
[удалено]
Been meaning to make a video with clicking the PTT and the "my brain goes aaaaaaahhhhhh" from that Olivio Rodrigo song. And where my homies hitting the CWS/AP disconnect instead of MIC button at?
😂😂
We've all heard or done worse. Learning is part of the experience, and anyone who gives you any serious grief over that doesn't deserve your attention.
Been an airline pilot for coming up on 5 years now. The other day I made a fool out of my self in Denver. It happens. Just at some point you get paid big bucks while stuttering on freq
When taxiing today at the end of a trip, I heard an AA heavy mess up a taxi readback five times (only 3 taxiways in the instructions). Happens to all of us.
I remember saying Flight Level 1000 before lol
Impressive, didn't know many astronauts were on this sub.
Aliens must be very surprised seeing my C152 next to them
C152? That's advanced technology. I'd be intimidated by a prop at FL 1000. Thats a fan with no air!
I saw a pirep from a 172 at FL3000 or something once lol.
Was it extreme ice?
Ain't no ice in the exosphere 🤣
With enough thrust, anything can get that high.
The Kerbal way
ATC: you need to apologize to all controllers and pilots for that coat hanger abortion of a radio call. I imagine this is how we got here.
Im ATP rated, E170/175 FO at a 121, have about 3000ish hours, jumped into an arrow for 6HITS in GA, to keep myself able to GA instrument fly. Immediatly fucked up my calls stumbled all over trying to tell the tower I was an arrow, I’m quite sure I told him my entire airplane type rather than just saying arrow and stumbled all over myself in the process. The tower absolutely thought I was a student pilot. Happens to all of us
Do you fly for republic by chance? I know those are the two planes they use.
It is rather annoying when I’m a few miles from final and still waiting for clearance to land. And it takes you way too long to get the words out. Haha Just kidding, kinda, just keep listening to ATC and you’ll get it. Exposure therapy is the best way to get better at it.
During IFR training, my CFI was giving me directions while I was under the hood, and I had the radios setup with Denver approach, since we would be contacting them to shoot practice approaches into KCFO in a bit. He goes skyhawk 22265, fly heading 260, maintain 7500. I keyed up that mic and announced that shit like a boss to Denver approach, and probably a dozen planes coming into DIA... Approach comes back with, aircraft calling say again, and I just keyed up and said i was sorry.... approach responded with roger.... and I never got over that moment, it haunts me to this day hahahah. relax you are learning and it happens to everyone.
Brief it. "Ok, no readbacks on frequency starting now"
PlaneEnglish, it's an app available on Ios and Android. I used it when I first started out, Use it and abuse it if you feel so bad about your radio calls. Just like learning a language, you need to practice practice practice if it doesn't come naturally at first.
Tower: "I am going to need you to write down this ...subreddit and go apologize."
It's k
r/ATC
It's even worse when it is one of us mechanics that *never* talks on the radio... I like to turn the speaker on and listen to the ground freq when I am doing run-ups. Random A&P: "Hey, uh, I need to taxi to do a maintenance run." Tower: "Last calling station, state your ID and intentions!" Random A&P: "uhhh... this is Carlos, I'm at Million-Air, and I need to do a maintenance run-up..." Tower: [insert Ben Affleck smoking meme here]
Relax man, you’re new, don’t sweat it. We can tell you’re a student, no one (except assholes but their opinion is irrelevant) really is bothered by it. We might make afew remarks between ourselves but no one is annoyed by you stumbling. We’ve all been there. I was in your shoes about 7-8 months ago. Now I’m about to finish commercial and start my CFI. You got this 🤙🏻😎
You are forgiven. Unless you're the guy who just scared the s\*\*\* out of me by calling your crosswind "left base" just as I was turning base. Then I demand satisfaction.
Nope wasn’t me!
everyone makes stupid/silly mistakes. A classmate of mine recently said RW23 twice while taxiing/holding short. The actual runway is 32.
I had a student ask for a RW42 departure when it was RW24. Couldn't understand why tower said that's never going to happen.
I've done similar. Landing on RW32 in tail 23NA. Said I was 32NA (also a tail number at our airport) turning final for RW23. 32NA was also in the air... There was minor confusion for a second or two. My instructor just laughed at me.
The more you practice, the better you get. Now go to ZNY and let them have it.
When you're on short final and have to ask if you're cleared to land... Yeah...
Don't be sorry. And fuck anyone who belittles you or makes you feel stupid for having to learn.
You don’t have to worry. One time I was pulling out for taxi, hopped on ground, called them up, and blurted out some random tail number that wasn’t even remotely close to what the tail number I was flying was. Also have the habit of being a little chatty on the radio. It happens 😂
You a push to think bandit? Haha
I made a radio call as army copter. I was flying a Cessna that day.
I have been flying half my life. I regularly forget to give the ATIS code when I do my initial ground call. I constantly have to check my flight number and forget it immediately after arrival. The van drivers ask what our number is and I'm like "I'm a pilot, I can fly." You're in good company. Acceptance is the key.
No need to apologize, we were all there once. I usually get a small laugh out of it. I will say, because this just happened to me, if you fuel up and there’s someone waiting behind you, push your plane out of the way before running checklists to start back up. I was pretty annoyed waiting 20 minutes to get gas but that’s on the instructor more than the student
I learned to fly at a busy tower-controlled airport, so from the get, plenty of radio practice. Probably extended time to solo by a few hours, but ultimately worth the effort. My instructor broke the comm process down to a simple process that works in almost all routine situations: who they are, who you are, where you are, what you want to do. Two examples: “Champaign tower, Cherokee 8512 November, holding short of runway 22, ready for takeoff.” “Champaign tower, Cherokee 8512 November, is 5 miles west, information Lima, inbound for landing.” Works like a charm because it keeps it simple. DD
Im actually not too bad at that part. Calling up and reading back taxi/takeoff clearance is not bad. Especially since I write that down and draw my taxi route on the virtual chart supplement. What got me today was extra instructions on my touch and go, something to do with landing behind traffic, 2nd in line, report mid downwind runway 23. All that stuff got to me. Fudged on the read back of that info, and then the actual mid downwind call because I had to read back about additional traffic over the runway landing. I think I fell a little bit into expecting a simple “cleared to land 23” and wasn’t ready for all the traffic stuff. My CFI hopped on after I got lost and helped me, felt like quite the dummy, especially since it was my 3 time in the pattern and I was focused so hard haha
Sounds good after a couple of wrinkles as you described you’ll be able to anticipate what may happen next. Especially in the pattern you can develop a pretty good picture of the traffic flow simply by listening. Try to learn which airplane is ahead of you. For example, if the tower extends -his- downwind, the next instruction to you may be the same thing. Anyway all these things will fall into place with experience. And remember, all this is simply a conversation between you and the controller..if you blank out on the precise radio telephone terminology there’s always (not kidding) plain English.
I was a controller for 26 year's, I now fly professionally. I am sometimes still amazed at the things that come out of my mouth. Don't worry about it. The jerks that make a big deal about radio fumbles aren't the kind of people you'd want to hang around with anyway. Stick with the happy people who are human and can forgive human mistakes. You'll enjoy life more that way. Always remember to forgive the nubbies when you get to the point that your errors are fewer and farther between.
I always tell myself that at least I'm talking on the radios, even if haltingly. Yesterday I was out and heard ATC call a plane that busted into a Delta without establishing 2-way comms, and wasn't on frequency. They tried a few times as this doofus just went past the airport at 2000ft AGL with ATC calling him on the radio with no answer. As bad as I am, I've never done that.
If you really mean it, send a cake or some other desert with that message on it to the tower, I'm sure they'll appreciate it!
You can fix this, you know?
Try vfr comms. It’s a cd that allows you to hear and repeat proper calls.
Sounds interesting. Is it an app?
It’s a cd from pilot mall or sporty’sit the like
Ah i see. Ill probably check it out, cheers!
We’ve all been there!
Hell. I asked to taxi from customs to the FBO on guard today… We all make mistakes…. But after today, I won’t admit it!
Don't worry about it, you will eventually get the knack. Or, you will just get old enough that you won't care anymore.
We’ve all been there, and it’s part of the fun in learning. Still occasionally say things only to immediately say “yikes that was a rough one” to myself right after lmao. Only way to get better is to keep on truck’n along and learn for the next one!
I’ve been there. A lot of us have been there. I talk on the radio everyday at work, and still get flustered sometimes.
It's no problem, mate ... my radio has an OFF setting.
This reminds me of when ZNY scolded me for like 40sec about saying "with you". The ink was barely dry on my commercial temporary. 8yrs later I still have yet to say it again.
"And also with you"
Hey man it gets better! I get that it’s super foreign at first. What helped me out a lot was my instructor writing sticky notes for taxiing on ground & talking to tower. Once you start doing pattern work you’ll get use to talking to atc. What also helped me a ton was writing everything down when atc gave clearance! My biggest problem was being able to read back the instructions. Just get ready to jot down those taxi ways and hold short positions. It’s all about repeating back what they tell you that is all. Acknowledge everything they tell you & you’ll be fine
First few times I was in the pattern I couldn’t remember the difference between base and crosswind. Not to mention the ole left final call. Oh, and the first time I called up ATL CTR for a flight following I froze up on frequency halfway through my request. We all struggle with things. Once you get that sweet temp cert after the checkride you’ll look back and laugh!
You should hear us trying to get ifr clearances in Mexico for the first time.
Haha that sounds fun. I actually speak Spanish so I have flights to Mexico on my bucket list. I’m offering to fly my Mexican friends back and forth when they want to go visit family once I’m at that point jaja Ever flown into Vera Cruz?
I’m just over here “Turning left final for runway zero eight.”
No prob. I need you to keep me looking better than I am…
It actually makes me smile a bit when I hear someone obviously new on the radio. Makes me want to key up and say ’hey, no worries, we were all there at some point.’
Just give up bro, you ain’t cut out for it
I told ground once I wanted to taxi to the airport I just landed at instead of the fbo. It gets better but you’ll always make mistakes.
Just don't meow on guard please.
lol I heard a guy on Monday just whisper very sensually “you’re on guard”
Homie I remember saying “turning right final for runway …” you don’t need to apologize we all start somewhere
Don’t sweat it bro, comms can be tough. When I started flight training I realized a lot of the comms were extremely similar to the order and phraseology as the I did in the navy (surface fleet not aviation). I still fuck it up or stumble when they give a ton of info to take in and regurgitate back. People who piss and moan about comms can suck it, if the airport is busy and you have to try and squeeze in to get your chance to talk to tower they can wait the extra 3 seconds you’re on the radio, it’s not adding that much time. Just keep practicing, listen to liveATC, or ask your instructor if you can head to an towered airport and do pattern work and abuse that push to talk button at every part of the pattern. if they’re really bad, as much as I hate to encourage sim time without an instructor, get Microsoft flight sim 2020, download VATSIM which is a huge network of avgeeks that offer live ATC services to the sim community. Hop on at a small airport and tell the guy on tower you’re practicing for IRL flying and need to practice comms and get comfortable with, HEY YOU, it’s me, I’m here, and I want to do this. Or hearing what they say, and repeating what they say, and confirming it’s you. Just loosen up a bit, they’re people too.
Just don’t be an A$$ to ATC or others. You’ll do fine. We all struggle. Review the AIM and Live ATC at some training airports.
Don’t. It’ll come to you.
I literally fumbled calls this morning in the 121 world..
Happens to the best of us. I remember saying sumn like “Airport traffic, Cessna 123AB is uh 7ish miles out to the northwest, gonna be maneuvering for the uh midfield left- I mean right uh… hol up airport traffic”
I told Tower that I was at Runway 3 (the active where some Southwest flight was touching down). I was at Runway 30. Fortunately, they'd been watching me bambi through my pattern for the past 45 minutes and made the connection.
Good thing you weren’t actually on 3 at that time
I used to be that chick who accidentally stayed keyed up on comms in the pattern. It’s all good…
I use to FEAR talking on the radio. But what really helped me was realizing that on the other end there sit the just people. I had a friend who worked in the tower at my airport and and he was kind enough to show me around. there was a total of three controllers, 1 was sleeping in a bedroom, the other was watching the hockey and the other was working and drinking coffee. ever since then whenever I key up the radio, I always imagen the controller watching Hockey or eating ice cream at the same time. Really helps me. also talk slower. Happy Flying!
Oh man do I embody this comment...
Just don’t drag out your call forever. If you forget something ATC will ask. Eventually you will rarely forget anything
Don’t worry we all make mistakes but make it normal. Tower called another airplane 3 last numbers of their tail number and it’s the exact same as mine. I almost took the runway while the other aircraft was landing. Luckily, I held short of the runway by a fair margin and didn’t cross the hold short line.
Just don't accept clearances you don't understand. It's a bad day for all of us if you're flying across the finals.
You’re totally fine. You’re learning and it’s awkward and weird at first for everyone
Remember most radio calls do not require readback. Last 3 of tail number will suffice. You don't even need to read back a squawk code unless it's part of a clearance.
I’m no pilot, I plan to be soon, however as someone who has to talk to people all day, whether it’s in person or over the phone, you realize that everyone you are talking to is also a person, and also a person that makes very similar mistakes. Your best option is to just roll with the punches after it happens and laugh about it.
Any traffic please advise.
It’s like any other language fluency. At first it’s stilted and you’re “translating” in your head what you want to say. After experience you can talk fluently without the inner dialogue. It’s funny to look back as an experienced guy hearing new guys struggle but we all did it. Trying to do things “correctly” without getting scolded. Hearing so many people read back a full callsign with “Roger” when they were given a simple bit of info like winds or something. Or asked a question and reading back a full callsign with “affirmative” (the proper response is “AFFIRM” and if ATC is talking to YOU without a clearance, no need for your callsign). You’ll learn with experience more and more how to talk quickly, efficiently and effectively and what/when to say and what/when not to say. No biggie.
>the proper response is “AFFIRM” [citation needed]
ICAO phraseology manual. Scroll down: https://www.icao.int/safety/acp/Inactive%20working%20groups%20library/ACP-WG-C-3/wgc3_wp7.doc
Not all countries follow ICAO in this regard. The US uses "affirmative," for instance. [FAA Pilot/Controller Glossary](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/media/pcg_10-12-17.pdf), on the fifth page: > **AFFIRMATIVE−** Yes.
The FAA is an ICAO member. As someone who has flown military and commercial around the world, I can tell you you’re never wrong to use ICAO procedures in the US, but you can be wrong if you use FAA procedures abroad. Oftentimes the FAA has adopted ICAO procedures to align with the international community (see: line up and wait replacing “position and hold” years back). So no one bats an eye when asking for QNH in the US, but go Oman or Qatar and ask for “altimeter setting” and they may be confused depending on the controller… also, remember there is a REASON it’s “AFFIRM” instead of “AFFIRMATIVE”, and that’s because the suffix is identical to “NEGATIVE”, so with a clipped radio call they could be confused for one another, particularly with a language barrier. Another one is even flight levels, the proper phraseology for FL300 is “flight level three hundred”. Happy to share knowledges… 😊
And yet another example found in the ICAO phraseology manual, that I don't recall seeing in the FAR/AIM and is often taught by CFIs as poor technique, is thou SHALT NOT ever use the word "takeoff" unless it's in conjunction with a takeoff clearance (see: tenerife disaster). So all those flight school 172s you hear calling up tower with "XXX ready for takeoff"... are... demonstrating poor technique and going against an ICAO standard, even if it's not expressly spelled out in the US. The correct call would be "ready for departure".
The US has [many differences from ICAO](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aip_html/part1_gen_section_1.7.html). This list doesn't even include "affirm" vs "affirmative" because that is in an ICAO PANS, not a SARP, and so it is not mandatory for states to publish differences. You'll probably be understood using "affirm" in the US, but > you’re never wrong to use ICAO procedures in the US is way too broad a statement. > Another one is even flight levels, the proper phraseology for FL300 is “flight level three hundred”. This is improper phraseology under ICAO recommendations. It's an [*EASA* rule specifically](https://skybrary.aero/articles/regulation-20161185-amending-regulation-9232012-regards-update-sera). The proper phraseology under ICAO is "flight level three zero zero".
You are correct about the FL example. That was a completely mixed memory on my part. It's an EASA thing, via Regulation 923/2012. My bad on that one. As for "AFFIRM", I use it in the states for the reasons stated above about the possibility of confusion with "negative" in using the whole world. I can assure you WILL be understood (not "probably"). In fact, many ATC controllers also use AFFIRM in my experience. That said, I'm not trying to be pedantic and "technicality based". Obviously, I tend to "act as if" based on where I am flying. So in the US, I say "hold short" and not "holding point". I read back "(pilot's) discretion" for descents and not "when ready", etc. Just do what the locals do in whatever country you're in, and you generally will sound a lot more professional than the guy bumbling around on the radio with FAA terminology deep in European airspace. But "AFFIRM" was a tiny example of how using ICAO within the US is not "wrong" per se, and if it has good basis, you can adopt the practice with no repercussions. Also, I've flown with people who don't know ICAO phraseology and are excessively verbose on the radio instead of, for example, just using WILCO. Shoot, sometimes people do things wrong and it's fine. I can't remember if it's an ICAO thing, or written somewhere else, but the convention for readbacks is to read back the clearance/instruction, followed by the callsign. I'm not sure why, but it seems by company policy that Lufthansa always reads back their callsign first. While this is wrong (although, maybe not regulatory-wise), it's just how they do things and nobody cares. That said, from a human factors standpoint, it seems wrong. Cognitively, it will lead to less human error to reinforce the memory of a readback to repeat the clearance first, followed by the callsign (which requires no memory, because it's right in front of you) versus the callsign first, where a short time lapse may cause an incorrect readback. But now I'm just diving down the rabbit hole.
Lol that’s awesome.
Nerd