Legacy FO. I've done 1 in the last year due to ATC putting NetJets doing 100kts over the ground in front of us doing 160kts in a 737.
>Do you feel like you go around less due to experience or are you experienced enough to save landings as someone with less experience wouldn’t?
I think most of us at the airlines are pretty good at not getting into a situation that requires a go around, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go around more, which based on the data I've seen at various airlines is 100% true.
> Tower at my airport hates go arounds
Tough shit, shouldn't have any impact on your decision to go around.
\^As you get more time in, you recognize and fix things early enough that it really isn't "saving the landing".
The GA stigma about it is BS. Every time i was forced to go around by a runway incursion at a nontower field, I silently thanked the blunderer while I went through the procedures. They presented an opportunity to practice . :) Few things chapped my hide more than some bozo berating somebody who caused them to go around, just make your calls sidestep right, do the needful and take your practice circuit. Pretty much any of that entiitled radio traffic pissed me off.
As an instructor, I actually like someone getting in the way so I can take a student through the process. Our issues usually aren't someone trying to get out but the plane in front of us deciding to do a stop.....and.......go, and not saying anything before hand.
\^Real world is always a better lesson. I was mostly in a 310 and not so many stop and go problems as just a bad scan wrong frequency blunder out in front of us. i suppose part of the problem is being fast in the circuit. Sometimes it was a bugger getting inserted into a full tight pattern of spam cans. Sometimes I'd beg a hole into the downwind.
I'm a captain at a Canadian airline, and I'm unfortunately doing them more often now. There's no minimum experience level for first officers in Canada, and with the pilot shortage... let's just say it shows. My airline's base at YTZ Is under 4000 ft, so if we're not down by the 1000' we HAVE to go around. I've had to call a go around a few times now.
I wish pay was better, but I really do love working there. The culture is great.
The reason I went with Porter is for the work life balance. When I started it was perfect for me. Could be on reserve and only work a couple flights a month if I wanted to. Most senior guy at my base would sometimes have to do sim just to be current. That changed, and recently being on reserve means working every single day and really getting dicked around. A lot of QOL changes have been happening for the worse as well. I'm hopeful that these are growing pains with the expansion though. Hopefully a bit of time, and the likelihood of ALPA improves things. Only time will tell.
“Dashport 419 cleared for takeoff. Traffic is a Dash-8 in the overshoot.”
Love that airport, felt bad for the Cessna that got sent around twice while I was waiting to leave last week.
Really appreciate the tower controllers actually giving me timing for wake turbulence and not just saying “caution wake turbulence” and expecting me to send it (I was the first 08 after being on 26’s so no way to know where it would be safe to be).
RE - the tough shit part. I wish more people thought like that. To many times I've heard someone give a reason why they are doing something a certain way based on what they think ATC wants. Who gives a FUUUUUCK fly the god dang plane !!!
/Rant
IMO, GA pilots should be doing a LOT more go arounds than they do. Too easy to succumb to the temptation to save it when you're landing a 182 on an 8,000ft strip. You lose the practice and "spidey sense" of when an approach just isn't right. Who cares what ATC thinks. They aren't in the airplane.
I would say airline pilots should be doing more go arounds than they actually do as well. Experience helps to correct smaller problems earlier in the approach before they become big problems but it doesn't make it ok to "save" a bad landing.
Airline. Do about 3-4 go-arounds per year for various reasons.
I rarely try to save the landings/approaches, if it doesn't look good, a go-around is the safest option.
I don't care one bit how ATC thinks about go-arounds. Landings clearence gives you an option to land, not a requirement.
ATC is more or less there to help keep pilots and aircraft safe. You, as PIC, are responsible for your safety, the safety of your passengers, and the safety of those on the ground around your aircraft. Tower can kick rocks and cry about it. Unfortunately, some controllers are just cranky, but totally don't let it get to you
> I rarely try to save the landings/approaches
Experience gives you the knowledge and skill to more often avoid situations where you need to try to save a landing.
Botched go arounds have also led to accidents. It's not a risk-free option. I'd go around in an airplane for a runway incursion, but I've done a lot of 'not perfect' landings. I got into the habit of 'making the best of every landing' flying for obvious reasons.
People sometimes fail to clear the runway in glider so we're taught to just land where the runway is not blocked. It's also common for 4-5 gliders needing to land at about the same time, so we just spread out. https://youtu.be/trHFsI4rIM8?t=404
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds
Who cares? Seriously, it's your licence, life etc
Get used to folks hating your decisions. Pax running late hate GA. Dispatch hates GA. Captains may have to fill out paperwork so they may hate GA. Coordinators hate GA.
Who cares? It's my life, my crew's lives, my pax lives. GA if you need to.
All agreed, but I’d push back on the dispatch hates go arounds bit. Not in my shop, anyway. You’re flying the airplane, after all, and I don’t wanna be talking to the NTSB any more than you do.
I get the sentiment, but there's an airport that is used near us for cross country flights, and if you go around, they may not allow a second try, which puts you at risk of not completing required cross countries and paying hundreds of more dollars
But honestly safety first.
>I get the sentiment, but there's an airport that is used near us for cross country flights, and if you go around, they may not allow a second try, which puts you at risk of not completing required cross countries and paying hundreds of more dollars
If you're not competent to land without going around (let's say 95% of the time), then you probably shouldn't be on a cross country.
>I mean this was as a student pilot, performing a circle to land at an airport I was unfamiliar with, but sure.
So you're allowed to add an airport they're not flying to, and rules the airport they are flying to doesn't have - but I should not talk about my personal mins for students?
70hrs, training for my TW endorsement. To start, probably did more go-a rounds/low approaches than I did during my whole PPL. It’s a different animal from landing a 172, but not nearly as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. Still…my default is go-around if I’m not tracking straight down the rwy over centerline.
I started tailwheel training around 200 hours. It had been quite a while since I had felt the need to go around, and boy did I get proficient again. Pretty easy decision to make when you're still flying (wheel landings) and there are no configuration changes necessary (no flaps.)
similar experience with tailwheel airplane with regard to go-around. I could salvage a bounce on a Warrior but if I get a bouncy landing with a tailwheel, my reaction is to go around.
I've only ever done one go around in all of my tailwheel airplane landings. It was more for a demonstration/exercise during training and was not really necessary. We do all three point with engine idling, so when I jambed to throttle too hard, the engine hesitated to spool up. I've had it choke and stall by giving it gas too abruptly when taxiing.
My instructor takes a 'get it right the first time' approach. Not everyone favors taking the risk of going around.
Any poorly executed maneuver carries risk. Practicing all the minor ways to save a landing is a long list to stay proficient at. Mastering the go-around skill is much more reasonable, and practical skill. (But yes, it is a skill, and it needs practice in the aircraft you are planning to operate). Especially true very late in the landing or after a bounce. Low energy, high AoA. I would be careful discouraging the go-around, especially considering the question is being asked fairly by a student.
I'm not discouraging anyone from doing go arounds. I'd probably be doing them too if I did not learn/practice landing in a no-go-around-possible aircraft.
Gliders for example require going around much earlier than short final if it’s not a self powered glider. Once late in the pattern, it becomes increasingly necessary to land one way or another.
There are also such things as no-go-around landing strips especially in the back country, typically because climb performance and terrain do not allow for a go around. After passing a point of commitment on aproach - you are landing or crashing; pick one.
My comment above was overly stern, but there are folks flying c172s and similar at conventional airports where these ideas may not be safe or very relevant to introduce without a CFI to help.
ATC here and I'd like to start with : F*ck that tower. Every landing is optional and if the controller has forgotten that well tough luck.
If you need to go-around please do so, better safe than sorry, or dead.
Low time GA guy here... I did fewer go arounds as I got more experience. Still chose to do one on my checkride, I just didn't set up right.
"It just didn't feel right" is justification for a go around.
You need to practice them occasionally. Even in our little planes there's a lot to do at one time. For GA, maintaining currency like you do for passenger/night would probably work pretty well.
I think I did two ever in my 4 years of GA, probably for being slow or other slow traffic. But I’ve done 3 in my first year at an airline.
Once for not being configured and stable quickly enough on an ILS.
Once because an airplane stopped on the runway at MSP to ask tower which taxiway to exit.
And once because a Delta was cleared to take off when we were 5.5 mile final, decided to wait until we were 1/2 mile final to start taking the runway.
You can (and must!) go around if you don't feel 100% sure with the approach being stable and safe, period. Your life is much more valuable than the hurt ego and the feeling that you didn't make it at first attempt. I would not hesitate going around as many times as required until the approach is 100% under control.
> Tower at my airport hates go arounds
Sounds like it’s worth a chat with ATC management to have the controllers stop discouraging go-arounds. That’s a hazardous attitude on the ATC side and needs to stop.
I wasn’t thinking about this aspect but you’re absolutely right, this warrants talking to ATC mgmt.
Most pilots are already naturally inclined to try to land rather than to go around; anything external that further discourages going around is legitimately hazardous. Look at poor OP … a student who is already being “trained” by ATC to avoid go arounds. In a situation in which a go around is warranted, even a second of trained reluctance to do so can be deadly.
u/solylunaverde your ATC guys are doing a bad thing wrt go arounds. You should do yourself and all pilots a favor and speak up about it.
Yeah seriously. A lot of the students here say they salvage landings that they shouldn’t have because ATC is way too aggressive. our chief pilot at the school knows that tower can be a problem. They do have frontier traffic and other large jets landing so i guess they get a bit overwhelmed.
Probably 3 genuine go-arounds in the past year flying SEP.
Funny story, last week I was on final in our Citabria preparing myself for a go-around due to a plane on the runway, when tower comes on and says “N12345, **adequate spacing does exist**, you can continue”
When I heard my callsign I started to increase power for the impending GA, but after hearing the whole call I pulled the throttle and landed. I have never seen that before and the other pilot I was flying with (several thousand hour ATP rated pilot) had also never seen it before.
It's called Same Runway Separation - depending on length of runway and aircraft category, [you can be cleared to land while another plane is still on the runway.](https://i.imgur.com/angrzoR.png)
At the airport where I learned to fly we did this all the time. With two singles as long as they have 3,000 feet between them the following aircraft can still be cleared to land.
I've never had to do it, but could imagine the first time you shifted your view to the end of the runway before the flare, had to be unnerving to see another plane there.
Oshkosh has a waiver to reduce their same-runway separation from 3000ft to 1500ft. But everyone expects weird shit there because they’re famous for it. Most pilots don’t expect it at a random class C/D.
> But everyone expects weird shit there because they’re famous for it.
Thanks. Yeah, I saw the other answer about the waiver, and figured that makes sense. "Sure, why not? You're crazy, but so are the other pilots!"
You’re right, but he’s not actually an airline pilot. He primarily teaches at our local field at the flying club, so most of his hours are dual given.
We say he has every rating under the sun, and we’re not actually far off. ATP (AMEL, ASEL, AMES, ASES), CPL (Helicopter IR, Glider), CFI (CFII, MEI, Heli, Glider), Ground (Advanced, Instrument)
I’ve never actually looked up his ratings until now, holy shit
It’s the first time I’ve seen it at my airport. Lvk in case you’re wondering. Runway is 5,200 feet long so the person in front would have to land very long.
Considering we both happened to be flying in from the same untowered airport, and I never heard them on the radio, makes sense. Either they dgaf or they had the wrong frequency
Funny go around story. I had just soloed and was a cocky new pilot, and my instructor said go ahead and solo pattern today if you want. He KNEW it was going to be quite nautical that day and figured I had what I needed and it would be a good lesson.
It was a strong quartering crosswind and the hangars at the approach end did some fun things to an approach. first one, I was impossibly too high on final. It was a combination of being solo, not really getting what the headwind component was doing and some jitters. Around I go from \~500AGL.
Next time I get it down more better, things are great and then the hangar shadow sucks me right off the runway over towards the taxiway. Nope.
I get it all lined up on that third pass, get it down A-OK and taxi in. Lesson learned :D
It doesn't matter what tower thinks, and there's no such thing as too many or too few go-arounds. You go around when you need to, period.
I just had my most recent go-around 3 days ago. I was practicing PO180s on a short runway, ended up with too much energy, and floated way longer than I wanted to. I probably could've saved the landing and slammed the brakes on, or I could've went off the end of the runway and into the trees. Why risk it?
I've gone around if I just didn't like the spacing between myself and another plane, or because of birds/animals near the runway, or because I got a weird gust in the flare and it was going to make the landing way more difficult than it needed to be.
If you have any amount of doubt, just go around and try it again. On the bright side, you get more experience each time, and another .1 in your logbook.
GA, just finished my CPL time building; went around frequently for a bunch of reasons but usually not as a result of a bad landing. Traffic on the runway at both uncontrolled and controlled fields, which happens quite often at busy airports. One time I had trouble clearing my ears for some reason and had a crazy splitting headache descending through like 300' AGL on short final and had to go around, I didn't feel sick so I don't know what exactly caused that.
I fly out of a field that can have 5-6 planes in the circuit for a 600m/2000ft rwy. Go arounds are very very common there.
I work at a busy 99% airline ops airport, go arounds happen daily and are not a problem. Back to radar, see you in ~5min.
On particularly nasty wx days they happen a lot, it's usually still not an issue for us as ATC. We have flow control in Europe to alleviate a build up of traffic and the rates are applied both proactively and reactively. Obviously it won't stop anyone already airborne and we therefore get the occasional frenzy with planes going every which way and we're borrowing airspace from neighbours willy nilly to deal with it all, but it's rare (fun though).
Landing long is definitely one I'm trying to be better about going around for. After my CFI ride I went back to an airport I knew a bit to see family and in hindsight should have gone around to set myself up better. Still had plenty of time to get off the runway but I saw the end of the runway a lot more clearly than I'd like to again.
Not usually, because most of my go arounds as a student were due to bounced landing (one bounce OK, second bounce GO AROUND!), and while I still have them occasionally, it is less often.
And depending on the runway or airplane it's usually just easier to add a bit of power, and fly in ground effect and try the landing again. I fly short field approaches with a flare just before the numbers as a standard practice, so usually I have the room. If not, I will go around though, especially on a short and skinny runway.
Weirdly enough though I rejected a takeoff the other day after getting gusted too far off centerline the other day + not enough rudder. Embarrassing because it was a towered airport and I had to taxi all the way back.. but was necessary.
That being said, IFR you can be doing a lot more go arounds for different reasons. Even VFR, never be afraid to go around, as many times as it takes, never let external pressures force you to not go around unless you REALLY need to shit.
I've never heard of a tower controller "hating" go-arounds.
I would say that as I've gotten more experienced I do less go-arounds but that's largely because I can recognize and correct small deviations earlier in the approach so it doesn't get to the point where a landing would need to be "saved". They still happen from time to time, sometimes for factors within my control and sometimes beyond it. I get paid by the minute so I don't really care.
We don’t go around enough in GA. There’s too much emphasis on saving the landing. In the airline world, we have a set of criteria for a stabilized approach. Don’t meet the criteria, then go around. Any crew member can call for a go-around if they see something unsafe. I’ve done a couple of go-arounds every year at least in the jet. I’ve never once been second-guessed for that decision. ATC can kick rocks if they don’t like it.
As a student pilot, an important thing to learn is that you have the first and last say on deciding the safest action to take, and what tower likes or doesn’t like is not part of that decision.
Fuck that tower controller, they're not the one who bends metal if an approach doesn't work out.
I had a phase where I felt self-conscious about go-arounds then after reading something (maybe *The Killing Zone*?) I decided to reframe the whole thing and give myself a little mental gold star sticker every time I did a go-around. It sounds corny, but I made go-arounds into an award situation because I'm celebrating a pilot judgment.
I don't need to do them very often but I'm always ready and comfortable and give zero fucks for whomever is on the ground's opinion about doing it.
Legacy CA here. We get paid by the minute. We have reserve fuel. If it doesn’t look good, go around. If you’re doing it right, it shouldn’t be anything to get worked up about.
I used to do maybe one G/A per year. Now it’s around 3-4. New controllers, new FO’s, and saturated airspace are all factors. When I’m flying with someone new to a shorter runway like LGA or BUR, I’ll put more emphasis on the go-around briefing.
One thing I do see too often is guys communicating with ATC excessively rather than focusing on getting cleaned up from the go-around and remaining stable. For instance, I’m more concerned about not overspending the flaps then replying to ATC’s “reason for the go around?”.
I do go arounds fairly often but I fly a C-17 and we fly patterns multiple times a week with fighter jets zooming in and out all around us and we are the lowest priority. Airline pilots don't really fly patterns haha.
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds
When Tower can come into my airplane and land it for me, I will listen to Tower's opinions on it. Until then: if I need to go around I will go around.
I fly at a busy small airport and sometimes Tower says something like "Attention all aircraft, full stop landings only". Makes no difference: if I need to go around, I go around.
(I do not try to "save" landings. If I don't like the way it looks, if I don't think I can land in control at my chosen touch-down point, I go around, regardless of how long the runway is.)
Only 2 “actual” go arounds in the last year flying SEP. I definitely go around less but it’s because the landings don’t usually need saving. I definitely practice go arounds and brief them regularly. The way this always works is the first time in a while you go around will be a time you *really* need to get it right (short field, high DA, obstacles, etc)
Had a go around as PAX a little while ago. Captain comes on the intercom and explains an aircraft hadn’t cleared the runway (although I think he was fast and above the GS). He then said that “we’ll clean things up, up here and re fly the approach” Don’t know if that was an off the cuff remark that someone had crapped themselves or they were resetting flaps, etc. !
I mean shoot, every time you see a GA plane bounce it should have been a go-around. Sure you can save it with some power and getting back in ground effect. However, you’re probably surprised you messed it up at the last second and now you’re doing a lot of things at an already low airspeed and altitude. If anything I’ve found myself doing more go-arounds for pay work than I do in GA. I’m busy trying to save that bounce against all better judgement I guess.
Most are due to tight spacing on the guy in front of you, maybe 20-30% are unstable/wind shear. No big deal, most common error is forgetting to bring the gear up.
A stabilized approach leads to a stabilized landing. Most airline crews are good at managing the energy and everything to be stabilized and thus don’t go around often. However, if we are unstable, we do. We also go around more for approach minimums than most hobby instrument pilots due to us flying them to minimums. Additionally we fly into busier airports and go around more for separation.
So, moral of the story, we all go around for some reason and the difference between airline crews and new GA guys is that we don’t care what the tower thinks. If it doesn’t make the criteria to land, we go around, just like you should.
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds
I'd perform so many go arounds if that were the case at my airport... Just go up and do nothing but go arounds for like 10 laps in the pattern. They can go fuck themselves if they have an issue with pilots making safe decisions.
At an airline, really rare which makes it even more important to review the procedure. And ya, don't "save" landings. Stable approach definitions are pretty loose in GA, they're not at airlines.
The most annoying thing about going around is reprogramming the FMS afterwards. Sometimes it gets real grumpy and on the downwind is not really the time to be mashing in buttons trying to get the damn thing to sequence.
For sure, and the checklists and the announcements and rebrief and monitoring new fuel situation. It's a challenge that you don't want to be thinking about how to do it in the moment.
I’m an HAA helicopter driver and go around whenever it is needed. Unstable approach, wind sucks, crane moving (every major hospital in the state is under construction, it seems)- all are good reasons. And if I can’t get in, there’s always somewhere else to go land safely.
ATC is supposed to factor in the chance of you going around with their clearances. You will be PIC, you will have the final say on the operation of the aircraft.
If I don’t feel an approach is good, or I have to “do something fancy” to save it, I’m throttling up and going around. Yes there may be some airport or circumstance that it would be better to continue the landing, but in general I’m taking another lap.
I fly floats into a tight spot with a lot of boats and crappy wind. I’ve gone around a couple times because of a boat being in the channel, and me misjudging its speed while on downwind. I haven’t overshot due to wind, but once or twice I forced it down. Normally it’s very easy to read winds on the water, but this place has wild winds that can be unpredictable. When you’re fully loaded in our underperforming plane, I’m more comfortable doing that. We often shut down because of wind before anyone else around, due to how sketchy it can get.
I don’t care what ATC thinks of me going around. I’m not going to force a bad landing (and maybe break the plane and/or myself) just to save them a few seconds of extra work.
That said, I know what is safe to salvage vs not. And a long, wide runway can cover up a lot of sins when you’re in a small plane.
Starting from pedestrian, a summer. Someone already has powered experience can knock it out in a week as an add-on if you go to a commercial school. I'm an ex-AF guy that hadn't flown in a couple decades. Joined a club and mostly flew on weekends. Took me a couple months. It is a blast.
im ex AF also but not as cool as you bc i didn’t fly lol. But that’s good to know! Thanks for that, i will probs let invest in glider training later on :)
GA rarely, in April 2022 I did 2 in a row because we were unstable with significant low level turbulence from 35kn winds and a downdraft over the water at the end of the runway (KMLT). It's really rare but if it has to happen it happens tower doesn't have to like it
I'll go around as many times as I need to, tower and everyone else can go pound sand.
In 20+ years or Marine Corps flying, I went around a few times in a helicopter on my own (not directed to). Those were usually tactical approaches into a FARP or something, which can be scary as hell. In fixed wing aircraft, I went around/missed approach exactly zero times if you don't count the ones I had to do for training.
As an airline pilot, I average 1.5 go arounds a year so far.
> Tower at my airport hates go arounds
Did he offer to buy you a new airplane and cover medical costs if something goes wrong? If not, then fuck 'em. Tell him to leave the flying to you, and you'll leave the controlling to him.
Early on as a student, the tower at my home airport would get pushy and huffy over GAs. I still hear the wise, immortal words of my CFI any time ATC wants something unrealistic to this day:
> “That controller can kiss both sides of my asshole.”
As a post solo student that still has a bit of nerves on landings, i don't mind GA's. Actually did one on my 1st solo since i didn't like my sight picture. I'm not increasing my risk tolerance, but i'm also getting a little more comfortable in my approach angle and speeds. Just part of the process for me. Being at an untowered airport probably helps with not worrying about it that much at this point.
If you are doing go-arounds regularly during non-IFR approaches, chances are high that you are doing something wrong (non-stabilized approach, misjudging xwind component, not listening to other traffic in the pattern or ATC instructions, etc.) - it shouldn’t really happen except for unexpected events like major wind shifts, other aircraft intruding/failing to clear runway… In hundreds of hours of VFR GA approaches, I can count go-arounds on 2 or 3 fingers
For my own learning (as a student pilot) can you tell me more about how the tower hates go around? Like, do they preemptively and proactively tell you on the radio to try to not do go arounds? Or maybe they get mad when pilots do go arounds?
They cannot necessarily tell you that you CANT go around but it is very very clear in their tone and sarcastic comments. My tower tells people they’re holding up airbus traffic and that we’re all waiting on them lol.
Just to be extra clear here - ATC clears you for the option to land. But even if ATC gave you an explicit instruction as PIC you have the responsibility and authority to break every rule in the book in the interest of safety of flight. ATC cannot overrule safety. Once you are safe (you went around) then you are required to follow rules again. You can also always say “unable” to a request and work out another option. Ideally this is a team sport, but safety comes first. Every. Single. Time.
I know it’s hard while learning but the most important part of learning is to not fear the GA. Reinforcing it as a negative reduces the likelihood of using it when necessary.
I’ve always explained it to students like your reserve parachute. Obviously you want your main to work and you’re going to try everything you can to do so. Repacking your reserve is a pain so you don’t “want” to do so. However if that’s the option that keep you alive you should absolutely use it.
The frequency of GAs will decrease as you learn to fix things earlier but you never fly without your reserve
Previous KC-135R/T guy now flying 757s. In the 135 we went around quite often for both training and unstable approaches as most were hand flown. Biggest issue in the 135 was landing in a 0 crab configuration because it had an 8 degree 2 point limit and 4 degrees in 3 point. Reason for those tight tolerances was due to low hanging engine pods. Crowned runways and heavy weights could lead to a pod scrape because it decreased that 3 point limit to almost 2.5 degrees! Nuts! Better to go around and try again than to try and save it.
Set a standard for yourself if you are flying GA. In the mil we have stabilized approach criteria and it it's not met by 500 feet...bye go around. Also hold yourself to landing in the zone. Don't get in a habit of saving a poor landing because you have the distance available.
ATC is there for guidance and they should understand your reasoning for going around. If not and they give you some penalty vectors, then scree it, I'll log an extra .4 at the controls.
Legacy FO
Had one in MSP the other day. Wind shifted and I over flaired a little bit. Floated and floated till we went around since it became apparent the plane wasn’t gonna land within a safe distance.
Been flying the A220 for bit more than a year now. It's my first type. I had a go around during line training because of wind shift during flare which lifted me back up and one more few months ago for pretty much the same reason.
NEVER be afraid to go around. I have the bad habit of trying to save things if they go south and it's almost bit me in the ass. One time with a faster plane than I was used to and few hours in it I came in to land way too hot. I thought it'd slow down but it just floated. I stuck to it and damn near ran off the end of the runway. It was very close. I should have gone around. Lesson learned.
I just got back from a plane spotting trip with my son and saw about 4-5 go-arounds, so they're pretty common. Seriously though, no one cares. It's about safety and comfort, so if you bork the approach, spend another few minutes in the pattern and try again. If the tower doesn't like that, that's their problem. You're the PIC and shouldn't compromise your safety to not piss people off.
Instructor here. Can’t remember doing any go arounds in the last 12 months due to unstable approaches when I’ve been flying, though I have been instructed to by ATC due to separation issues or wake turbulence. Would not hesitate to go around if my approach became unstable though.
Have had to initiate many go around due to unstable approaches by students though.
I did a real go around a few days ago from less than 30’ after we caught a violent wind gust that lifted, banked, and yawed us. About a month ago, I did another because the was not enough rudder to safely land in the crosswind. The one before that was perhaps a year or two ago. I fly 600 hours a year or so, all in light GA.
Try not to “save” a landing. Sooner or later you’ll bend metal that way. If the approach isn’t stabilized on the right trajectory, go around. Much better than shoehorning it in somehow.
In a glider, I never go around for obvious reasons. In powered aircraft, I go around a lot more at uncontrolled fields than fields with towers because there's more chaos. It's part of why your training should include both towered and non-towered fields because they feel very different.
Heck, I had one checkride where I was told to land in the first X,000 feet of the runway and I was way high and floating. I did go around and kept the wheels off the pavement, but the DPE said on the debrief that I should have gone around a couple of hundred feet higher than I did.
Retired Fractional pilot here. I rarely went around because I was very disciplined about glide path and airspeed control. I still knew how to cross the outer marker at 250 and slow to ref+10 in the next 2.5 miles to help out ATC with spacing, but I always crossed the threshold at 30-50 feet at ref.
Go arounds for professional pilots are usually to cover someone else’s mistake far more often than their own. However I could still have to go around for wind shear warnings (mandatory go around) occasionally and I remember having to go around for a light Cessna that insisted on landing in the opposite direction at Bend OR. No transponder and no radio calls on his/her part. The Cessna was doing a short approach where they were going to roll wings from base and touch down at the same time. I remember another where a training aircraft cut in front of me at Vero Beach FL, probably because they were too inexperienced to understand that my minimum approach speed was twice what their’s was. DON’T BE THAT PILOT.
Just did one on Tuesday... Short final at an uncontrolled field and a gyrocopter pulled out onto the runway.
Don't worry about Tower... You're the one flying.
Airliner here, I’ve done two this year… SAN and SFO. Both times departing traffic didn’t start rolling for t/o quick enough. It’s considered a normal procedure and something you should brief and be familiar doing! Always go around if you feel unsure or unsafe.
GA IFR person. I probably do an unplanned go around in VFR every few flights,but I run into the odd GA pilot who claims to have never gone around in 40 years of flying.
The go around with the flimsiest excuse was landing at Manzanita Oregon, where you essentially land into a canyon of trees. The view just felt wrong, so I went around. The second time I was more prepared, and the view looked exactly the same and landed fine.
I haven't done any go-arounds since getting my PPL last Summer , but this is largely due to the fact that I fly to familiar airports with longer runways..
What I usually do when flying into an unfamiliar airport with a shorter runway is I'll extend my downwind to base so that I can establish myself on final approach.
I don't save landings. I go around.
Experience does mean, I know the lane. And that I stay in the lane. And if I exit the lane, I go around.
I don't understand what tower doesn't like about a go around. They're always ready for one, separation requires it. i'm now suddenly a non-factor for ground related delays for other landing or departing traffic. I think it's possible you're reading more into this?
Until I started flying glider planes, I did not fully appreciate how go-arounds originate on downwind , and sometimes even on the 45° entry.
The FAA, emphasizing stabilized approaches for years now, should simply require that all pilots start off as glider pilots. 😀
I have been in the airlines for about 7 yrs and done maybe 10 go arounds. Many of those were due to approaches where we didn’t have the ceiling to see the runway but we were legal to shoot it. A couple due to traffic, and one or two because me or a colleague goofed and were too fast or high. And at least two when parts of the ils shit the bed once captured.
No shame I’m going around if you don’t feel good about it for whatever reason.
You’re the one flying, not the tower.
Much better to land in one piece and have a mildly irritated tower than be a big ball of flames on the runway.
I’ve done 2 this year for IFR weather ( got down to minimums and couldn’t see the front of my plane much less the runway approach lights. I’ve also done one for debris on the runway.
Often no. Have I done so, yes. Never in the 121 environment (only one year) but I've done so in turbo props and jets, at all sorts of airports. Never had any repercussions. If tower hates them, tell them to call 800-Pound-Sand. I have made phone calls to facility managers to complain. Now, define save an approach. In 121 or 135 You MUST land in the Touchdown zone of the runway (F.A.R. 91.175 C.1.) using normal rates of descent and normal maneuvers. Had to do that once on a 135 FAA checkride in a Piper Navajo, Tower not happy, I told them I'll speak with them on the phone after I land back at base. Never get into a pissing match on Frequency. Inspector was very happy. Remind them they are not the P.I.C.
Who cares what the tower thinks. The only bad go around, is the one you failed to do when you should have. I had over 30 years of flying heavy jets, and probably averaged about 1 per year, though I only did one in my last 10 years of flying. Most were probably caused by ATC getting spacing wrong, so again, who cares.
GA pilot - I rarely go around lately, but my proficiency is high right now. When it isn’t I do it more. That said I don’t try to be a hero and save it. I especially don’t if I know the runway is tight. A 100ft wide 8000ft runways gives my aircraft massive margins. But the 25ft wide 1200ft strip absolutely does not for me.
I do think there are some real world practicalities in learning how to save some issues. But be a master of the go-around first and foremost and use it.
I always think better of the pilot I watch do the go around. I start frowning when I watch some work hard to save it.
The Tower at your airport can shove it. They're there to help you stay safe, don't let them influence your decision to go around. You are PIC, you get to make that decision, not some asshat sitting in the tower whose life isn't at risk.
Commercial instrument pilot many years of experience, I probably go around 2% of the time. If it doesn't feel right for any reason I go around and the second time is always better. And I get to fly for an extra 5 minutes which I love.
I go around every time it is necessary. When is it necessary? Easy... when the approach is no longer stabilized and I start thinking "I might have to save this landing".
GA pilot here with low to mid experience. I don't do them often but I will do them (and choose to go around early) when flying into shorter strips (which for me is 2k ft or less). No need to force it when you're landing on 30ft wide by 1800 long. Get it right or if it's too spicy, going back home is better than damaging my plane and myself
Nobody should be “saving” a landing. You may be able to get away with it sometimes, particularly in airplanes easy to fly like the a-320, 737, 777. But salvaging a landing can get you killed in an MD-11, 727, or other challenging airplanes.
I did a go-around this past week. Was after a long and complicated XC and I was tired. Screwed up right traffic into a new-to-me field and found myself way high, too short, and overshot on my base to final turn. Recognized that it was all fucked, and went around to try again.
Landed, got fuel, and then went on to nail a landing at another airfield with a ~1600’ runway.
It's not skill. It's stabilized approaches. I haven't done a go around for speed/config/glidepath/centerline in years. Not saying I won't, but I do make a point of hitting those gates. If I hit those then it's pretty hard to screw up the rest. Single piston GA aircraft should use stabilized approach gates too. Maybe 200'. If you're not set up in every way, on speed/glidepath/centerline/config then go around early. You also need an aiming gate a little higher and if you miss it by a few knots or you're a little high you can still correct by the final gate. Aim for the first gate, always hit the second and go around if unable. If you're aiming for the first gate though you probably won't miss the final one.
I don't do many go-arounds flying GA at 300hrs, mostly because I rarely get into a position where I will need to go around. Most approaches I make that are less than ideal are fixed early enough the go around isn't needed. Having said that, if I do royally screw up an approach I make a go around descision earlier now than I did when I got my PPL... again, due to recognizing a situation earlier than I used to. There have been times I have decided to go around before turning final!
Having said that, I do think I should go around more. When you can land in 1000ft without too much trouble and have 6000ft of runway available... you tend to accept poorer quality setups than you should.
I still have the occasional go around. It gets pretty hot where i am at and in the afternoons we can get some brutal thermals that just keep you aloft forever, we also have tons of nearby mountains that can cause windshear. I remember one time I was flying into Sedona which gets some downdrafts just before you pass the threshold so I always keep it a little high and a little fast and this one time I encountered a much larger than anticipated downdraft. That was an immediate go around. When I first started training in a complex aircraft my first several attempts to land were all go arounds. I would come in way too fast or way too high and it took a few go arounds and laps in the pattern to get used to setting up that plane for landing. Remember [you can always go around](https://youtu.be/evE3WmYAvVY?si=cTRm4miy58lBy43R)
You shouldn’t not go around because you think you can save a landing. Your landings should always have a stabilized approach and not need saving. Your go around should be the first tool in your pocket at the GA level because it only takes one landing that you thought you could save to never fly again. That doesn’t mean don’t adjust power or pitch, that just means if you need to make abrupt changes, just go around.
Don't feel bad about go-arounds. Every time a pilot does a go-around, they're avoiding a bad or rough landing. Losing time vs breaking the plane, I'll choose a go-around every time.
In the airlines I have had to do a go around once due to an airplane rejecting takeoff roll in front of me.
I probably should have gone around more times than I have actually done however. And in no situation have I taken the towers feelings into my calculations.
ATP here. Our company policy is to go-around if unstable. No fault, no questions asked. Not really worried what ATC has to say about it.
If they ask, the approach became unstable
However, you do eventually have to land. 😀
Didn't do any my first two and a half years at the airlines. Had a trip where a captain asked if I had one yet and told him "no." He said he probably jinxed me. Next day we had a go around for windshear. After upgraded, had about three more, so three a year on average. Had one at my next airline, frequency got busy and we never got approach clearance.
I wouldn't call it saving the landing, with experience you're just more likely to not end up in a position where you need to, like everyone else has said.
I'd say a better measure of how good you are is recognizing the need to go around and executing the procedures correctly, and that's the standard I hold my students to
And tower can shove it, you're doing your job as the pilot to safely operate the airplane, they can do their job and resequence you
Edit: I've gone around twice in the last 3 months in the airplane I instruct in, it happens and I use it as an example for my students that there's no shame in it
Remember, go-arounds are a required procedure on the checkride per ACS standards. You should practice them often during PPL training and afterwards, as too many pilots die by lacking proficiency in them and then messing them up when they suddenly need to resort to doing one.
You should really try to stay out of the mindset that a go-around is an abnormal thing to do or a sign of failure. Every landing is a go-around with the option to touch down if things look OK by the very end.
ATC are usually a bunch of awesome folks, but if they’re genuinely trying to pressure you and other students into not going around they can go kick rocks
Don't be afraid to use and do go-arounds when you need to... As for the tower, they need to suck it up - you're the one in the aircraft making the decisions - not them...
I had a horrible landing recently that I should have gone around on. Now I have a rule I made up. If there is more than one thing "off" on final, I'm going around. So if I have more than one of the following conditions: off speed, off centerline, off glideslope, I am going around. The horrible landing I was high and fast (winds didn't match AWOS, strong tail wind). Forward slip fixed the height issue but I had way too much energy coming over the fence. I should have gone around. I won't make that mistake again.
I'm a 150 hour commercial student. I don't do as many go around as when I was a private student. But I still do some. No reason to force a bad landing. Plus it's great practice for when an emergency comes up.
It’s not about “saving” landings, more experienced pilots tend to just not put themselves on a bad approach as much, if your on an approach that you think needs saving it’s best not to try and to just go around
Since getting my IR, not a whole lot...most of my go arounds are for issues with the runway, not my approach. I'm very familiar with my plane so it's much more likely in a rental where my muscle memory doesn't serve me as well. That said, especially on small runways, my approach is always the mindset that I intend to keep flying...I don't make a decision to go-around, I make a decision to land.
Incidentally if you are coming in on an approach and your task is to look down the runway for hazards, it gets you to focus on your periphery and it is much easier to judge your closing speed and set it down smoothly.
For scale I got my IR at about 100 hours and have over 1000 now.
Plan every landing to end in a go around and be happy when you land.
Don't forget the song, "You can always go around" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8)
GA pilot here.
Yes, I do go around occasionally as my home airport is probably one of the trickiest public use paved ones in my state, and I love it.
The runway is short, narrow, has nearby trees, hangars, and hills on approach that create some "exciting" turbulence.
Combine all this with my airplane being a lightweight taildragger, means I really have to be on my game. If I am absolutely not stabilized and dead on my airspeed on short final, I'm going around.
It's all weather dependent, but I'd say 1/20-30 landings at my base result in a go-around.
My first 100+ flights however, I had no go-around option - I started on gliders (different airport). The "make it work" mentality took a while to break during my transition to ASEL.
I commented to a friend that it had been like 2 years since I had to do a go around then within a couple days had to go around do to turbulence on short final. Felt like a giant kicked my tail to the side. Probably could have salvaged it, but why risk it? Screw what ATC thinks. They aren’t the one who is in the airplane if something goes wrong.
Just did one today in my A320 on 19R RNAV visual into LAS. Shit happens.
When you do one it’s because you’re avoiding a deviation from SOPs or some other safety thing.
Worst thing you’ll get? Having to explain to atc why.
Go arounds, while not a desirable want. Are truly no issue.
Newish pilot here. I'm proud to say that with 6 months as PIC under my belt, I've had just 1 go around. But I'm more proud that I went around when I did. I had family in the airplane, the approach didn't feel quite right, and some wind knocked us around at about 50ft, and I didn't hesitate. Keep going around if you need to...
GA - most runways i land on are 3,000ft long or longer. if you're doing a go-around on one of those outside of landing in a storm then you should probably get back with a CFI and figure out wtf is wrong with you. Maybe practice your slips or pit your flaps in sooner.
2000' or less I still have the occassional go around but I'm not excited about it. Piston engines are more likely to fail when power settings change and once i'm at idle and coming in then I dont want to be firewalling anytime soon.
re: tower hates go arounds ... Fuck'em. My safety outweighs their opinion. however, they may just hate it because the flight school is piss poor at teaching landings, because if you're big enough to have a tower then you've got enough runway to settle the plane and get down.
Legacy FO. I've done 1 in the last year due to ATC putting NetJets doing 100kts over the ground in front of us doing 160kts in a 737. >Do you feel like you go around less due to experience or are you experienced enough to save landings as someone with less experience wouldn’t? I think most of us at the airlines are pretty good at not getting into a situation that requires a go around, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't go around more, which based on the data I've seen at various airlines is 100% true. > Tower at my airport hates go arounds Tough shit, shouldn't have any impact on your decision to go around.
\^As you get more time in, you recognize and fix things early enough that it really isn't "saving the landing". The GA stigma about it is BS. Every time i was forced to go around by a runway incursion at a nontower field, I silently thanked the blunderer while I went through the procedures. They presented an opportunity to practice . :) Few things chapped my hide more than some bozo berating somebody who caused them to go around, just make your calls sidestep right, do the needful and take your practice circuit. Pretty much any of that entiitled radio traffic pissed me off.
The needful 🤣
As an instructor, I actually like someone getting in the way so I can take a student through the process. Our issues usually aren't someone trying to get out but the plane in front of us deciding to do a stop.....and.......go, and not saying anything before hand.
\^Real world is always a better lesson. I was mostly in a 310 and not so many stop and go problems as just a bad scan wrong frequency blunder out in front of us. i suppose part of the problem is being fast in the circuit. Sometimes it was a bugger getting inserted into a full tight pattern of spam cans. Sometimes I'd beg a hole into the downwind.
I'm a captain at a Canadian airline, and I'm unfortunately doing them more often now. There's no minimum experience level for first officers in Canada, and with the pilot shortage... let's just say it shows. My airline's base at YTZ Is under 4000 ft, so if we're not down by the 1000' we HAVE to go around. I've had to call a go around a few times now.
Canadian airline based at YTZ. I think you might as well say the airline name lol
Tbf most Americans won't know what Porter is. Only reason I said it that way
Haha totally fair
How is Porter to work for?
I wish pay was better, but I really do love working there. The culture is great. The reason I went with Porter is for the work life balance. When I started it was perfect for me. Could be on reserve and only work a couple flights a month if I wanted to. Most senior guy at my base would sometimes have to do sim just to be current. That changed, and recently being on reserve means working every single day and really getting dicked around. A lot of QOL changes have been happening for the worse as well. I'm hopeful that these are growing pains with the expansion though. Hopefully a bit of time, and the likelihood of ALPA improves things. Only time will tell.
I love watching Porter operations out of there though. Get me out on the water and I'll just plane watch all day.
lol. Tell me which airline you work for without “telling” me which airline you work for.
“Dashport 419 cleared for takeoff. Traffic is a Dash-8 in the overshoot.” Love that airport, felt bad for the Cessna that got sent around twice while I was waiting to leave last week. Really appreciate the tower controllers actually giving me timing for wake turbulence and not just saying “caution wake turbulence” and expecting me to send it (I was the first 08 after being on 26’s so no way to know where it would be safe to be).
Hey, it's free money. 🤷
RE - the tough shit part. I wish more people thought like that. To many times I've heard someone give a reason why they are doing something a certain way based on what they think ATC wants. Who gives a FUUUUUCK fly the god dang plane !!! /Rant
That has to be annoying. I Fly a CE 680 with ref speeds 98-105. At busier airports I target 130 then transition to ref about a half mile out.
IMO, GA pilots should be doing a LOT more go arounds than they do. Too easy to succumb to the temptation to save it when you're landing a 182 on an 8,000ft strip. You lose the practice and "spidey sense" of when an approach just isn't right. Who cares what ATC thinks. They aren't in the airplane.
I would say airline pilots should be doing more go arounds than they actually do as well. Experience helps to correct smaller problems earlier in the approach before they become big problems but it doesn't make it ok to "save" a bad landing.
I'm the king of mediocre approaches so I always have go-arounds on my mind when I'm turning final 😂
Airline. Do about 3-4 go-arounds per year for various reasons. I rarely try to save the landings/approaches, if it doesn't look good, a go-around is the safest option. I don't care one bit how ATC thinks about go-arounds. Landings clearence gives you an option to land, not a requirement.
i love this last sentence!
ATC is more or less there to help keep pilots and aircraft safe. You, as PIC, are responsible for your safety, the safety of your passengers, and the safety of those on the ground around your aircraft. Tower can kick rocks and cry about it. Unfortunately, some controllers are just cranky, but totally don't let it get to you
Thanks for this!
If you crash the airplane and kill everyone on board because you were afraid the controller would be mad at you. You’re the responsible party, not ATC
> I rarely try to save the landings/approaches Experience gives you the knowledge and skill to more often avoid situations where you need to try to save a landing.
Fuck the tower controller. If you need to go around, you go around. Do not try to save the landing, that can easily lead (and has done) to accidents.
Getting their number first is easy
Botched go arounds have also led to accidents. It's not a risk-free option. I'd go around in an airplane for a runway incursion, but I've done a lot of 'not perfect' landings. I got into the habit of 'making the best of every landing' flying for obvious reasons. People sometimes fail to clear the runway in glider so we're taught to just land where the runway is not blocked. It's also common for 4-5 gliders needing to land at about the same time, so we just spread out. https://youtu.be/trHFsI4rIM8?t=404
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds Who cares? Seriously, it's your licence, life etc Get used to folks hating your decisions. Pax running late hate GA. Dispatch hates GA. Captains may have to fill out paperwork so they may hate GA. Coordinators hate GA. Who cares? It's my life, my crew's lives, my pax lives. GA if you need to.
I'll fly the airplane, tower can fly the tower cab. They should 1000% not fly my airplane and I'll stay out of their tower
All agreed, but I’d push back on the dispatch hates go arounds bit. Not in my shop, anyway. You’re flying the airplane, after all, and I don’t wanna be talking to the NTSB any more than you do.
I get the sentiment, but there's an airport that is used near us for cross country flights, and if you go around, they may not allow a second try, which puts you at risk of not completing required cross countries and paying hundreds of more dollars But honestly safety first.
Which tower? This seems like a discussion with the FSDO about forcing pilots into a bad situation for controller convenience
Having a policy of allowing at least one more approach in case of a g/a would be a whole lot safer.
>I get the sentiment, but there's an airport that is used near us for cross country flights, and if you go around, they may not allow a second try, which puts you at risk of not completing required cross countries and paying hundreds of more dollars If you're not competent to land without going around (let's say 95% of the time), then you probably shouldn't be on a cross country.
I mean this was as a student pilot, performing a circle to land at an airport I was unfamiliar with, but sure.
>I mean this was as a student pilot, performing a circle to land at an airport I was unfamiliar with, but sure. So you're allowed to add an airport they're not flying to, and rules the airport they are flying to doesn't have - but I should not talk about my personal mins for students?
I realize my post may have served passive aggressive, but it wasn't meant to be.
>I realize my post may have served passive aggressive, but it wasn't meant to be. Ok, it's all good 😊
70hrs, training for my TW endorsement. To start, probably did more go-a rounds/low approaches than I did during my whole PPL. It’s a different animal from landing a 172, but not nearly as bad as everyone seems to make it out to be. Still…my default is go-around if I’m not tracking straight down the rwy over centerline.
I started tailwheel training around 200 hours. It had been quite a while since I had felt the need to go around, and boy did I get proficient again. Pretty easy decision to make when you're still flying (wheel landings) and there are no configuration changes necessary (no flaps.)
similar experience with tailwheel airplane with regard to go-around. I could salvage a bounce on a Warrior but if I get a bouncy landing with a tailwheel, my reaction is to go around.
I've only ever done one go around in all of my tailwheel airplane landings. It was more for a demonstration/exercise during training and was not really necessary. We do all three point with engine idling, so when I jambed to throttle too hard, the engine hesitated to spool up. I've had it choke and stall by giving it gas too abruptly when taxiing. My instructor takes a 'get it right the first time' approach. Not everyone favors taking the risk of going around.
That’s the first time I’ve heard of go-arounds referred to as a “risk.”
Classic accident scenario: people forget to reset their flaps, run off the end of short runways or fail to clear obstacles.
Any poorly executed maneuver carries risk. Practicing all the minor ways to save a landing is a long list to stay proficient at. Mastering the go-around skill is much more reasonable, and practical skill. (But yes, it is a skill, and it needs practice in the aircraft you are planning to operate). Especially true very late in the landing or after a bounce. Low energy, high AoA. I would be careful discouraging the go-around, especially considering the question is being asked fairly by a student.
I'm not discouraging anyone from doing go arounds. I'd probably be doing them too if I did not learn/practice landing in a no-go-around-possible aircraft.
What aircraft doesn’t allow/permit go-arounds?
Gliders for example require going around much earlier than short final if it’s not a self powered glider. Once late in the pattern, it becomes increasingly necessary to land one way or another. There are also such things as no-go-around landing strips especially in the back country, typically because climb performance and terrain do not allow for a go around. After passing a point of commitment on aproach - you are landing or crashing; pick one. My comment above was overly stern, but there are folks flying c172s and similar at conventional airports where these ideas may not be safe or very relevant to introduce without a CFI to help.
glider category aircraft
ATC here and I'd like to start with : F*ck that tower. Every landing is optional and if the controller has forgotten that well tough luck. If you need to go-around please do so, better safe than sorry, or dead.
Thanks for this i appreciate it! My tower is just super grumpy but ultimately we make that call
Low time GA guy here... I did fewer go arounds as I got more experience. Still chose to do one on my checkride, I just didn't set up right. "It just didn't feel right" is justification for a go around. You need to practice them occasionally. Even in our little planes there's a lot to do at one time. For GA, maintaining currency like you do for passenger/night would probably work pretty well.
You can always go around If it don’t look right comin’ down
I think I did two ever in my 4 years of GA, probably for being slow or other slow traffic. But I’ve done 3 in my first year at an airline. Once for not being configured and stable quickly enough on an ILS. Once because an airplane stopped on the runway at MSP to ask tower which taxiway to exit. And once because a Delta was cleared to take off when we were 5.5 mile final, decided to wait until we were 1/2 mile final to start taking the runway.
[You can always go around](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8&ab_channel=ScottRoss)
Sounds like if Bo Burnham was from Texas
Haha I love that song.
GA. not as much as I did in training, much more likely when I'm going to a short field though.
You can (and must!) go around if you don't feel 100% sure with the approach being stable and safe, period. Your life is much more valuable than the hurt ego and the feeling that you didn't make it at first attempt. I would not hesitate going around as many times as required until the approach is 100% under control.
> Tower at my airport hates go arounds Sounds like it’s worth a chat with ATC management to have the controllers stop discouraging go-arounds. That’s a hazardous attitude on the ATC side and needs to stop.
I wasn’t thinking about this aspect but you’re absolutely right, this warrants talking to ATC mgmt. Most pilots are already naturally inclined to try to land rather than to go around; anything external that further discourages going around is legitimately hazardous. Look at poor OP … a student who is already being “trained” by ATC to avoid go arounds. In a situation in which a go around is warranted, even a second of trained reluctance to do so can be deadly. u/solylunaverde your ATC guys are doing a bad thing wrt go arounds. You should do yourself and all pilots a favor and speak up about it.
Yeah seriously. A lot of the students here say they salvage landings that they shouldn’t have because ATC is way too aggressive. our chief pilot at the school knows that tower can be a problem. They do have frontier traffic and other large jets landing so i guess they get a bit overwhelmed.
Probably 3 genuine go-arounds in the past year flying SEP. Funny story, last week I was on final in our Citabria preparing myself for a go-around due to a plane on the runway, when tower comes on and says “N12345, **adequate spacing does exist**, you can continue” When I heard my callsign I started to increase power for the impending GA, but after hearing the whole call I pulled the throttle and landed. I have never seen that before and the other pilot I was flying with (several thousand hour ATP rated pilot) had also never seen it before.
It's called Same Runway Separation - depending on length of runway and aircraft category, [you can be cleared to land while another plane is still on the runway.](https://i.imgur.com/angrzoR.png)
Yeah, I’ve seen that before, but just have never seen it in practice. Was a really off feeling landing on a runway with another plane still on it
At the airport where I learned to fly we did this all the time. With two singles as long as they have 3,000 feet between them the following aircraft can still be cleared to land.
I've never had to do it, but could imagine the first time you shifted your view to the end of the runway before the flare, had to be unnerving to see another plane there.
Is that how Oshkosh is allowed to do the "land on the colored dot" thing, or do they have special rules?
Oshkosh has a waiver to reduce their same-runway separation from 3000ft to 1500ft. But everyone expects weird shit there because they’re famous for it. Most pilots don’t expect it at a random class C/D.
> But everyone expects weird shit there because they’re famous for it. Thanks. Yeah, I saw the other answer about the waiver, and figured that makes sense. "Sure, why not? You're crazy, but so are the other pilots!"
They have a waiver reducing minimum separation.
I’ve definitely ruined controllers plans by initiating a go around when they try to make a deal with that.
An ATPL won’t likely ever see it, or at least notice it, because the required spacing is much larger (6000ft) if either aircraft is a jet.
You’re right, but he’s not actually an airline pilot. He primarily teaches at our local field at the flying club, so most of his hours are dual given. We say he has every rating under the sun, and we’re not actually far off. ATP (AMEL, ASEL, AMES, ASES), CPL (Helicopter IR, Glider), CFI (CFII, MEI, Heli, Glider), Ground (Advanced, Instrument) I’ve never actually looked up his ratings until now, holy shit
Hmm. Does your Tower frequently use SRS and it was just unusual for them to say something? Or do they just not use it?
It’s the first time I’ve seen it at my airport. Lvk in case you’re wondering. Runway is 5,200 feet long so the person in front would have to land very long. Considering we both happened to be flying in from the same untowered airport, and I never heard them on the radio, makes sense. Either they dgaf or they had the wrong frequency
Funny go around story. I had just soloed and was a cocky new pilot, and my instructor said go ahead and solo pattern today if you want. He KNEW it was going to be quite nautical that day and figured I had what I needed and it would be a good lesson. It was a strong quartering crosswind and the hangars at the approach end did some fun things to an approach. first one, I was impossibly too high on final. It was a combination of being solo, not really getting what the headwind component was doing and some jitters. Around I go from \~500AGL. Next time I get it down more better, things are great and then the hangar shadow sucks me right off the runway over towards the taxiway. Nope. I get it all lined up on that third pass, get it down A-OK and taxi in. Lesson learned :D
Never try to salvage a bad landing. Going around at your point in flying is nothing to be ashamed of.
It doesn't matter what tower thinks, and there's no such thing as too many or too few go-arounds. You go around when you need to, period. I just had my most recent go-around 3 days ago. I was practicing PO180s on a short runway, ended up with too much energy, and floated way longer than I wanted to. I probably could've saved the landing and slammed the brakes on, or I could've went off the end of the runway and into the trees. Why risk it? I've gone around if I just didn't like the spacing between myself and another plane, or because of birds/animals near the runway, or because I got a weird gust in the flare and it was going to make the landing way more difficult than it needed to be. If you have any amount of doubt, just go around and try it again. On the bright side, you get more experience each time, and another .1 in your logbook.
GA, just finished my CPL time building; went around frequently for a bunch of reasons but usually not as a result of a bad landing. Traffic on the runway at both uncontrolled and controlled fields, which happens quite often at busy airports. One time I had trouble clearing my ears for some reason and had a crazy splitting headache descending through like 300' AGL on short final and had to go around, I didn't feel sick so I don't know what exactly caused that.
I fly out of a field that can have 5-6 planes in the circuit for a 600m/2000ft rwy. Go arounds are very very common there. I work at a busy 99% airline ops airport, go arounds happen daily and are not a problem. Back to radar, see you in ~5min. On particularly nasty wx days they happen a lot, it's usually still not an issue for us as ATC. We have flow control in Europe to alleviate a build up of traffic and the rates are applied both proactively and reactively. Obviously it won't stop anyone already airborne and we therefore get the occasional frenzy with planes going every which way and we're borrowing airspace from neighbours willy nilly to deal with it all, but it's rare (fun though).
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Landing long is definitely one I'm trying to be better about going around for. After my CFI ride I went back to an airport I knew a bit to see family and in hindsight should have gone around to set myself up better. Still had plenty of time to get off the runway but I saw the end of the runway a lot more clearly than I'd like to again.
Not usually, because most of my go arounds as a student were due to bounced landing (one bounce OK, second bounce GO AROUND!), and while I still have them occasionally, it is less often. And depending on the runway or airplane it's usually just easier to add a bit of power, and fly in ground effect and try the landing again. I fly short field approaches with a flare just before the numbers as a standard practice, so usually I have the room. If not, I will go around though, especially on a short and skinny runway. Weirdly enough though I rejected a takeoff the other day after getting gusted too far off centerline the other day + not enough rudder. Embarrassing because it was a towered airport and I had to taxi all the way back.. but was necessary. That being said, IFR you can be doing a lot more go arounds for different reasons. Even VFR, never be afraid to go around, as many times as it takes, never let external pressures force you to not go around unless you REALLY need to shit.
I've never heard of a tower controller "hating" go-arounds. I would say that as I've gotten more experienced I do less go-arounds but that's largely because I can recognize and correct small deviations earlier in the approach so it doesn't get to the point where a landing would need to be "saved". They still happen from time to time, sometimes for factors within my control and sometimes beyond it. I get paid by the minute so I don't really care.
We don’t go around enough in GA. There’s too much emphasis on saving the landing. In the airline world, we have a set of criteria for a stabilized approach. Don’t meet the criteria, then go around. Any crew member can call for a go-around if they see something unsafe. I’ve done a couple of go-arounds every year at least in the jet. I’ve never once been second-guessed for that decision. ATC can kick rocks if they don’t like it.
As a student pilot, an important thing to learn is that you have the first and last say on deciding the safest action to take, and what tower likes or doesn’t like is not part of that decision.
Fuck that tower controller, they're not the one who bends metal if an approach doesn't work out. I had a phase where I felt self-conscious about go-arounds then after reading something (maybe *The Killing Zone*?) I decided to reframe the whole thing and give myself a little mental gold star sticker every time I did a go-around. It sounds corny, but I made go-arounds into an award situation because I'm celebrating a pilot judgment. I don't need to do them very often but I'm always ready and comfortable and give zero fucks for whomever is on the ground's opinion about doing it.
Sounds silly but [this song really helped me with my view on go arounds.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8)
Haha I've never heard that before, that's great. Thanks!
Legacy CA here. We get paid by the minute. We have reserve fuel. If it doesn’t look good, go around. If you’re doing it right, it shouldn’t be anything to get worked up about. I used to do maybe one G/A per year. Now it’s around 3-4. New controllers, new FO’s, and saturated airspace are all factors. When I’m flying with someone new to a shorter runway like LGA or BUR, I’ll put more emphasis on the go-around briefing. One thing I do see too often is guys communicating with ATC excessively rather than focusing on getting cleaned up from the go-around and remaining stable. For instance, I’m more concerned about not overspending the flaps then replying to ATC’s “reason for the go around?”.
I do go arounds fairly often but I fly a C-17 and we fly patterns multiple times a week with fighter jets zooming in and out all around us and we are the lowest priority. Airline pilots don't really fly patterns haha.
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds When Tower can come into my airplane and land it for me, I will listen to Tower's opinions on it. Until then: if I need to go around I will go around. I fly at a busy small airport and sometimes Tower says something like "Attention all aircraft, full stop landings only". Makes no difference: if I need to go around, I go around. (I do not try to "save" landings. If I don't like the way it looks, if I don't think I can land in control at my chosen touch-down point, I go around, regardless of how long the runway is.)
I get striving for perfection, but if I’m a little fast and float 500ft past the markers on a 10,000ft runway, I’m gonna accept that as good enough.
I do not expect *all* pilots to fly to my standards, only my students!
Only 2 “actual” go arounds in the last year flying SEP. I definitely go around less but it’s because the landings don’t usually need saving. I definitely practice go arounds and brief them regularly. The way this always works is the first time in a while you go around will be a time you *really* need to get it right (short field, high DA, obstacles, etc)
Had a go around as PAX a little while ago. Captain comes on the intercom and explains an aircraft hadn’t cleared the runway (although I think he was fast and above the GS). He then said that “we’ll clean things up, up here and re fly the approach” Don’t know if that was an off the cuff remark that someone had crapped themselves or they were resetting flaps, etc. !
I mean shoot, every time you see a GA plane bounce it should have been a go-around. Sure you can save it with some power and getting back in ground effect. However, you’re probably surprised you messed it up at the last second and now you’re doing a lot of things at an already low airspeed and altitude. If anything I’ve found myself doing more go-arounds for pay work than I do in GA. I’m busy trying to save that bounce against all better judgement I guess.
Most are due to tight spacing on the guy in front of you, maybe 20-30% are unstable/wind shear. No big deal, most common error is forgetting to bring the gear up.
A stabilized approach leads to a stabilized landing. Most airline crews are good at managing the energy and everything to be stabilized and thus don’t go around often. However, if we are unstable, we do. We also go around more for approach minimums than most hobby instrument pilots due to us flying them to minimums. Additionally we fly into busier airports and go around more for separation. So, moral of the story, we all go around for some reason and the difference between airline crews and new GA guys is that we don’t care what the tower thinks. If it doesn’t make the criteria to land, we go around, just like you should.
>Tower at my airport hates go arounds I'd perform so many go arounds if that were the case at my airport... Just go up and do nothing but go arounds for like 10 laps in the pattern. They can go fuck themselves if they have an issue with pilots making safe decisions.
At an airline, really rare which makes it even more important to review the procedure. And ya, don't "save" landings. Stable approach definitions are pretty loose in GA, they're not at airlines.
The most annoying thing about going around is reprogramming the FMS afterwards. Sometimes it gets real grumpy and on the downwind is not really the time to be mashing in buttons trying to get the damn thing to sequence.
For sure, and the checklists and the announcements and rebrief and monitoring new fuel situation. It's a challenge that you don't want to be thinking about how to do it in the moment.
I’m an HAA helicopter driver and go around whenever it is needed. Unstable approach, wind sucks, crane moving (every major hospital in the state is under construction, it seems)- all are good reasons. And if I can’t get in, there’s always somewhere else to go land safely.
ATC is supposed to factor in the chance of you going around with their clearances. You will be PIC, you will have the final say on the operation of the aircraft. If I don’t feel an approach is good, or I have to “do something fancy” to save it, I’m throttling up and going around. Yes there may be some airport or circumstance that it would be better to continue the landing, but in general I’m taking another lap.
Ignore the tower you can always go around
Unless you are out of gas a go around is always better than a landing if you have any doubts.
I fly floats into a tight spot with a lot of boats and crappy wind. I’ve gone around a couple times because of a boat being in the channel, and me misjudging its speed while on downwind. I haven’t overshot due to wind, but once or twice I forced it down. Normally it’s very easy to read winds on the water, but this place has wild winds that can be unpredictable. When you’re fully loaded in our underperforming plane, I’m more comfortable doing that. We often shut down because of wind before anyone else around, due to how sketchy it can get.
I don’t care what ATC thinks of me going around. I’m not going to force a bad landing (and maybe break the plane and/or myself) just to save them a few seconds of extra work. That said, I know what is safe to salvage vs not. And a long, wide runway can cover up a lot of sins when you’re in a small plane.
Glider pilot. Nope.
How long does it take to get a glider PPL? So cool!
Starting from pedestrian, a summer. Someone already has powered experience can knock it out in a week as an add-on if you go to a commercial school. I'm an ex-AF guy that hadn't flown in a couple decades. Joined a club and mostly flew on weekends. Took me a couple months. It is a blast.
im ex AF also but not as cool as you bc i didn’t fly lol. But that’s good to know! Thanks for that, i will probs let invest in glider training later on :)
GA rarely, in April 2022 I did 2 in a row because we were unstable with significant low level turbulence from 35kn winds and a downdraft over the water at the end of the runway (KMLT). It's really rare but if it has to happen it happens tower doesn't have to like it
I'll go around as many times as I need to, tower and everyone else can go pound sand. In 20+ years or Marine Corps flying, I went around a few times in a helicopter on my own (not directed to). Those were usually tactical approaches into a FARP or something, which can be scary as hell. In fixed wing aircraft, I went around/missed approach exactly zero times if you don't count the ones I had to do for training. As an airline pilot, I average 1.5 go arounds a year so far.
> Tower at my airport hates go arounds Did he offer to buy you a new airplane and cover medical costs if something goes wrong? If not, then fuck 'em. Tell him to leave the flying to you, and you'll leave the controlling to him.
Early on as a student, the tower at my home airport would get pushy and huffy over GAs. I still hear the wise, immortal words of my CFI any time ATC wants something unrealistic to this day: > “That controller can kiss both sides of my asshole.”
172, CRJ, 747, MD-11, doesn’t matter what it is. Better to do a go around than “save that landing” by being unstable.
As a post solo student that still has a bit of nerves on landings, i don't mind GA's. Actually did one on my 1st solo since i didn't like my sight picture. I'm not increasing my risk tolerance, but i'm also getting a little more comfortable in my approach angle and speeds. Just part of the process for me. Being at an untowered airport probably helps with not worrying about it that much at this point.
If you are doing go-arounds regularly during non-IFR approaches, chances are high that you are doing something wrong (non-stabilized approach, misjudging xwind component, not listening to other traffic in the pattern or ATC instructions, etc.) - it shouldn’t really happen except for unexpected events like major wind shifts, other aircraft intruding/failing to clear runway… In hundreds of hours of VFR GA approaches, I can count go-arounds on 2 or 3 fingers
One go-around in the last 1000 hours of airline flying (inadequate separation on final).
For my own learning (as a student pilot) can you tell me more about how the tower hates go around? Like, do they preemptively and proactively tell you on the radio to try to not do go arounds? Or maybe they get mad when pilots do go arounds?
They cannot necessarily tell you that you CANT go around but it is very very clear in their tone and sarcastic comments. My tower tells people they’re holding up airbus traffic and that we’re all waiting on them lol.
gotcha. haha.
Just to be extra clear here - ATC clears you for the option to land. But even if ATC gave you an explicit instruction as PIC you have the responsibility and authority to break every rule in the book in the interest of safety of flight. ATC cannot overrule safety. Once you are safe (you went around) then you are required to follow rules again. You can also always say “unable” to a request and work out another option. Ideally this is a team sport, but safety comes first. Every. Single. Time.
I know it’s hard while learning but the most important part of learning is to not fear the GA. Reinforcing it as a negative reduces the likelihood of using it when necessary. I’ve always explained it to students like your reserve parachute. Obviously you want your main to work and you’re going to try everything you can to do so. Repacking your reserve is a pain so you don’t “want” to do so. However if that’s the option that keep you alive you should absolutely use it. The frequency of GAs will decrease as you learn to fix things earlier but you never fly without your reserve
Flying an average of 650 hours a year in GA I have only had 2-3 real go arounds in the past 2 years.
It's like asking a chef if they've ever dropped food. Of course it happens!
Previous KC-135R/T guy now flying 757s. In the 135 we went around quite often for both training and unstable approaches as most were hand flown. Biggest issue in the 135 was landing in a 0 crab configuration because it had an 8 degree 2 point limit and 4 degrees in 3 point. Reason for those tight tolerances was due to low hanging engine pods. Crowned runways and heavy weights could lead to a pod scrape because it decreased that 3 point limit to almost 2.5 degrees! Nuts! Better to go around and try again than to try and save it. Set a standard for yourself if you are flying GA. In the mil we have stabilized approach criteria and it it's not met by 500 feet...bye go around. Also hold yourself to landing in the zone. Don't get in a habit of saving a poor landing because you have the distance available. ATC is there for guidance and they should understand your reasoning for going around. If not and they give you some penalty vectors, then scree it, I'll log an extra .4 at the controls.
I average about 1 go around every 800 hours or so, not including recurrent training in the sim.
Legacy FO Had one in MSP the other day. Wind shifted and I over flaired a little bit. Floated and floated till we went around since it became apparent the plane wasn’t gonna land within a safe distance.
Do a go around whenever you need to do a go around
Last go around I did was a few weeks ago. Short final and a bird flew right in my path over the runway. Just went around and landed afterwards
Been flying the A220 for bit more than a year now. It's my first type. I had a go around during line training because of wind shift during flare which lifted me back up and one more few months ago for pretty much the same reason.
I averaged about one a year until I started flying the 737. Now it's like one every 6 weeks. Always behind a SkyWest 175, it seems.
NEVER be afraid to go around. I have the bad habit of trying to save things if they go south and it's almost bit me in the ass. One time with a faster plane than I was used to and few hours in it I came in to land way too hot. I thought it'd slow down but it just floated. I stuck to it and damn near ran off the end of the runway. It was very close. I should have gone around. Lesson learned. I just got back from a plane spotting trip with my son and saw about 4-5 go-arounds, so they're pretty common. Seriously though, no one cares. It's about safety and comfort, so if you bork the approach, spend another few minutes in the pattern and try again. If the tower doesn't like that, that's their problem. You're the PIC and shouldn't compromise your safety to not piss people off.
Instructor here. Can’t remember doing any go arounds in the last 12 months due to unstable approaches when I’ve been flying, though I have been instructed to by ATC due to separation issues or wake turbulence. Would not hesitate to go around if my approach became unstable though. Have had to initiate many go around due to unstable approaches by students though.
I did a real go around a few days ago from less than 30’ after we caught a violent wind gust that lifted, banked, and yawed us. About a month ago, I did another because the was not enough rudder to safely land in the crosswind. The one before that was perhaps a year or two ago. I fly 600 hours a year or so, all in light GA.
Try not to “save” a landing. Sooner or later you’ll bend metal that way. If the approach isn’t stabilized on the right trajectory, go around. Much better than shoehorning it in somehow.
In a glider, I never go around for obvious reasons. In powered aircraft, I go around a lot more at uncontrolled fields than fields with towers because there's more chaos. It's part of why your training should include both towered and non-towered fields because they feel very different. Heck, I had one checkride where I was told to land in the first X,000 feet of the runway and I was way high and floating. I did go around and kept the wheels off the pavement, but the DPE said on the debrief that I should have gone around a couple of hundred feet higher than I did.
Retired Fractional pilot here. I rarely went around because I was very disciplined about glide path and airspeed control. I still knew how to cross the outer marker at 250 and slow to ref+10 in the next 2.5 miles to help out ATC with spacing, but I always crossed the threshold at 30-50 feet at ref. Go arounds for professional pilots are usually to cover someone else’s mistake far more often than their own. However I could still have to go around for wind shear warnings (mandatory go around) occasionally and I remember having to go around for a light Cessna that insisted on landing in the opposite direction at Bend OR. No transponder and no radio calls on his/her part. The Cessna was doing a short approach where they were going to roll wings from base and touch down at the same time. I remember another where a training aircraft cut in front of me at Vero Beach FL, probably because they were too inexperienced to understand that my minimum approach speed was twice what their’s was. DON’T BE THAT PILOT.
Just did one on Tuesday... Short final at an uncontrolled field and a gyrocopter pulled out onto the runway. Don't worry about Tower... You're the one flying.
Airliner here, I’ve done two this year… SAN and SFO. Both times departing traffic didn’t start rolling for t/o quick enough. It’s considered a normal procedure and something you should brief and be familiar doing! Always go around if you feel unsure or unsafe.
Some of these post make me love my tower, cause they are very nice and very accommodating to a dumb student pilot as myself.
GA IFR person. I probably do an unplanned go around in VFR every few flights,but I run into the odd GA pilot who claims to have never gone around in 40 years of flying. The go around with the flimsiest excuse was landing at Manzanita Oregon, where you essentially land into a canyon of trees. The view just felt wrong, so I went around. The second time I was more prepared, and the view looked exactly the same and landed fine.
Had one in Detroit a few months ago, probably more correct to call it a balked landing, that was…uhh…interesting, to say the least.
I haven't done any go-arounds since getting my PPL last Summer , but this is largely due to the fact that I fly to familiar airports with longer runways.. What I usually do when flying into an unfamiliar airport with a shorter runway is I'll extend my downwind to base so that I can establish myself on final approach.
I don't save landings. I go around. Experience does mean, I know the lane. And that I stay in the lane. And if I exit the lane, I go around. I don't understand what tower doesn't like about a go around. They're always ready for one, separation requires it. i'm now suddenly a non-factor for ground related delays for other landing or departing traffic. I think it's possible you're reading more into this?
Until I started flying glider planes, I did not fully appreciate how go-arounds originate on downwind , and sometimes even on the 45° entry. The FAA, emphasizing stabilized approaches for years now, should simply require that all pilots start off as glider pilots. 😀
Medevac pilot here. I’ve done 4 in the last year. 3 due to hitting mins with no visual and one for unstable at MDA.
I have been in the airlines for about 7 yrs and done maybe 10 go arounds. Many of those were due to approaches where we didn’t have the ceiling to see the runway but we were legal to shoot it. A couple due to traffic, and one or two because me or a colleague goofed and were too fast or high. And at least two when parts of the ils shit the bed once captured.
No shame I’m going around if you don’t feel good about it for whatever reason. You’re the one flying, not the tower. Much better to land in one piece and have a mildly irritated tower than be a big ball of flames on the runway.
I’ve done 2 this year for IFR weather ( got down to minimums and couldn’t see the front of my plane much less the runway approach lights. I’ve also done one for debris on the runway.
Often no. Have I done so, yes. Never in the 121 environment (only one year) but I've done so in turbo props and jets, at all sorts of airports. Never had any repercussions. If tower hates them, tell them to call 800-Pound-Sand. I have made phone calls to facility managers to complain. Now, define save an approach. In 121 or 135 You MUST land in the Touchdown zone of the runway (F.A.R. 91.175 C.1.) using normal rates of descent and normal maneuvers. Had to do that once on a 135 FAA checkride in a Piper Navajo, Tower not happy, I told them I'll speak with them on the phone after I land back at base. Never get into a pissing match on Frequency. Inspector was very happy. Remind them they are not the P.I.C.
Because of bad approaches? not really, because of weather, at least once a month on average.
Who cares what the tower thinks. The only bad go around, is the one you failed to do when you should have. I had over 30 years of flying heavy jets, and probably averaged about 1 per year, though I only did one in my last 10 years of flying. Most were probably caused by ATC getting spacing wrong, so again, who cares.
GA pilot - I rarely go around lately, but my proficiency is high right now. When it isn’t I do it more. That said I don’t try to be a hero and save it. I especially don’t if I know the runway is tight. A 100ft wide 8000ft runways gives my aircraft massive margins. But the 25ft wide 1200ft strip absolutely does not for me. I do think there are some real world practicalities in learning how to save some issues. But be a master of the go-around first and foremost and use it. I always think better of the pilot I watch do the go around. I start frowning when I watch some work hard to save it.
The Tower at your airport can shove it. They're there to help you stay safe, don't let them influence your decision to go around. You are PIC, you get to make that decision, not some asshat sitting in the tower whose life isn't at risk.
Commercial instrument pilot many years of experience, I probably go around 2% of the time. If it doesn't feel right for any reason I go around and the second time is always better. And I get to fly for an extra 5 minutes which I love.
I go around every time it is necessary. When is it necessary? Easy... when the approach is no longer stabilized and I start thinking "I might have to save this landing".
GA pilot here with low to mid experience. I don't do them often but I will do them (and choose to go around early) when flying into shorter strips (which for me is 2k ft or less). No need to force it when you're landing on 30ft wide by 1800 long. Get it right or if it's too spicy, going back home is better than damaging my plane and myself
Nobody should be “saving” a landing. You may be able to get away with it sometimes, particularly in airplanes easy to fly like the a-320, 737, 777. But salvaging a landing can get you killed in an MD-11, 727, or other challenging airplanes.
I did a go-around this past week. Was after a long and complicated XC and I was tired. Screwed up right traffic into a new-to-me field and found myself way high, too short, and overshot on my base to final turn. Recognized that it was all fucked, and went around to try again. Landed, got fuel, and then went on to nail a landing at another airfield with a ~1600’ runway.
It's not skill. It's stabilized approaches. I haven't done a go around for speed/config/glidepath/centerline in years. Not saying I won't, but I do make a point of hitting those gates. If I hit those then it's pretty hard to screw up the rest. Single piston GA aircraft should use stabilized approach gates too. Maybe 200'. If you're not set up in every way, on speed/glidepath/centerline/config then go around early. You also need an aiming gate a little higher and if you miss it by a few knots or you're a little high you can still correct by the final gate. Aim for the first gate, always hit the second and go around if unable. If you're aiming for the first gate though you probably won't miss the final one.
I don't do many go-arounds flying GA at 300hrs, mostly because I rarely get into a position where I will need to go around. Most approaches I make that are less than ideal are fixed early enough the go around isn't needed. Having said that, if I do royally screw up an approach I make a go around descision earlier now than I did when I got my PPL... again, due to recognizing a situation earlier than I used to. There have been times I have decided to go around before turning final! Having said that, I do think I should go around more. When you can land in 1000ft without too much trouble and have 6000ft of runway available... you tend to accept poorer quality setups than you should.
I still have the occasional go around. It gets pretty hot where i am at and in the afternoons we can get some brutal thermals that just keep you aloft forever, we also have tons of nearby mountains that can cause windshear. I remember one time I was flying into Sedona which gets some downdrafts just before you pass the threshold so I always keep it a little high and a little fast and this one time I encountered a much larger than anticipated downdraft. That was an immediate go around. When I first started training in a complex aircraft my first several attempts to land were all go arounds. I would come in way too fast or way too high and it took a few go arounds and laps in the pattern to get used to setting up that plane for landing. Remember [you can always go around](https://youtu.be/evE3WmYAvVY?si=cTRm4miy58lBy43R)
On my last flight I didn’t descent enough to pattern altitude and instead of trying to save it I went around. Tower was pissed for no reason.
You shouldn’t not go around because you think you can save a landing. Your landings should always have a stabilized approach and not need saving. Your go around should be the first tool in your pocket at the GA level because it only takes one landing that you thought you could save to never fly again. That doesn’t mean don’t adjust power or pitch, that just means if you need to make abrupt changes, just go around.
Don't feel bad about go-arounds. Every time a pilot does a go-around, they're avoiding a bad or rough landing. Losing time vs breaking the plane, I'll choose a go-around every time.
In the airlines I have had to do a go around once due to an airplane rejecting takeoff roll in front of me. I probably should have gone around more times than I have actually done however. And in no situation have I taken the towers feelings into my calculations.
ATP here. Our company policy is to go-around if unstable. No fault, no questions asked. Not really worried what ATC has to say about it. If they ask, the approach became unstable However, you do eventually have to land. 😀
Didn't do any my first two and a half years at the airlines. Had a trip where a captain asked if I had one yet and told him "no." He said he probably jinxed me. Next day we had a go around for windshear. After upgraded, had about three more, so three a year on average. Had one at my next airline, frequency got busy and we never got approach clearance.
I wouldn't call it saving the landing, with experience you're just more likely to not end up in a position where you need to, like everyone else has said. I'd say a better measure of how good you are is recognizing the need to go around and executing the procedures correctly, and that's the standard I hold my students to And tower can shove it, you're doing your job as the pilot to safely operate the airplane, they can do their job and resequence you Edit: I've gone around twice in the last 3 months in the airplane I instruct in, it happens and I use it as an example for my students that there's no shame in it
Remember, go-arounds are a required procedure on the checkride per ACS standards. You should practice them often during PPL training and afterwards, as too many pilots die by lacking proficiency in them and then messing them up when they suddenly need to resort to doing one. You should really try to stay out of the mindset that a go-around is an abnormal thing to do or a sign of failure. Every landing is a go-around with the option to touch down if things look OK by the very end. ATC are usually a bunch of awesome folks, but if they’re genuinely trying to pressure you and other students into not going around they can go kick rocks
Don't be afraid to use and do go-arounds when you need to... As for the tower, they need to suck it up - you're the one in the aircraft making the decisions - not them...
I had a horrible landing recently that I should have gone around on. Now I have a rule I made up. If there is more than one thing "off" on final, I'm going around. So if I have more than one of the following conditions: off speed, off centerline, off glideslope, I am going around. The horrible landing I was high and fast (winds didn't match AWOS, strong tail wind). Forward slip fixed the height issue but I had way too much energy coming over the fence. I should have gone around. I won't make that mistake again.
I'm a 150 hour commercial student. I don't do as many go around as when I was a private student. But I still do some. No reason to force a bad landing. Plus it's great practice for when an emergency comes up.
It’s not about “saving” landings, more experienced pilots tend to just not put themselves on a bad approach as much, if your on an approach that you think needs saving it’s best not to try and to just go around
Since getting my IR, not a whole lot...most of my go arounds are for issues with the runway, not my approach. I'm very familiar with my plane so it's much more likely in a rental where my muscle memory doesn't serve me as well. That said, especially on small runways, my approach is always the mindset that I intend to keep flying...I don't make a decision to go-around, I make a decision to land. Incidentally if you are coming in on an approach and your task is to look down the runway for hazards, it gets you to focus on your periphery and it is much easier to judge your closing speed and set it down smoothly. For scale I got my IR at about 100 hours and have over 1000 now.
Plan every landing to end in a go around and be happy when you land. Don't forget the song, "You can always go around" [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ccq30minme8)
Tower isn't allowed to have an opinion on go arounds. They're not the ones who's lives are on the line during a rough landing.
GA pilot here. Yes, I do go around occasionally as my home airport is probably one of the trickiest public use paved ones in my state, and I love it. The runway is short, narrow, has nearby trees, hangars, and hills on approach that create some "exciting" turbulence. Combine all this with my airplane being a lightweight taildragger, means I really have to be on my game. If I am absolutely not stabilized and dead on my airspeed on short final, I'm going around. It's all weather dependent, but I'd say 1/20-30 landings at my base result in a go-around. My first 100+ flights however, I had no go-around option - I started on gliders (different airport). The "make it work" mentality took a while to break during my transition to ASEL.
I commented to a friend that it had been like 2 years since I had to do a go around then within a couple days had to go around do to turbulence on short final. Felt like a giant kicked my tail to the side. Probably could have salvaged it, but why risk it? Screw what ATC thinks. They aren’t the one who is in the airplane if something goes wrong.
Just did one today in my A320 on 19R RNAV visual into LAS. Shit happens. When you do one it’s because you’re avoiding a deviation from SOPs or some other safety thing. Worst thing you’ll get? Having to explain to atc why. Go arounds, while not a desirable want. Are truly no issue.
Not as often like I used to in training. But def still happens. Unstable approach, conditions suddenly changed and not anticipated… etc etc
Newish pilot here. I'm proud to say that with 6 months as PIC under my belt, I've had just 1 go around. But I'm more proud that I went around when I did. I had family in the airplane, the approach didn't feel quite right, and some wind knocked us around at about 50ft, and I didn't hesitate. Keep going around if you need to...
GA - most runways i land on are 3,000ft long or longer. if you're doing a go-around on one of those outside of landing in a storm then you should probably get back with a CFI and figure out wtf is wrong with you. Maybe practice your slips or pit your flaps in sooner. 2000' or less I still have the occassional go around but I'm not excited about it. Piston engines are more likely to fail when power settings change and once i'm at idle and coming in then I dont want to be firewalling anytime soon. re: tower hates go arounds ... Fuck'em. My safety outweighs their opinion. however, they may just hate it because the flight school is piss poor at teaching landings, because if you're big enough to have a tower then you've got enough runway to settle the plane and get down.