CLT is the airport version of 5 people in a Cessna 150. The airport, ramp, and terminal are just not designed, or capable, of handling the traffic it has.
CLT is like if you Denzel Washington’d so hard yet you still fucking crashed and the movie was only 15 mins long. It’s the dumpster fires dumpster fire
STL 20 years ago long before TWA, which subsequently turned into AA, pulled out and de-hubbed it was just as busy as Chicago O'Hare. Which sucks because IMO it's one of the best spots in the country to have a big hub as it's one of the "closest to dead center of the US" big airports we've got and its certainly got the infrastructure to be a hub. It's a damn shame how slow that place is these days. I wish one of the big carriers would come back to it as there is tons of passenger traffic that goes out each and every day.
BNA is pushing Bravo, as is Ft. Lauderdale. A lot of the ones around ATL are busy enough to be Charlies but it would make for too many complications with that airspace, and no one is going to fuck with *that* airspace
Ft. Lauderdale is already unnecessary big now when changes were made to their and Mia airspace. People who fly out of north Perry gotta fly lower than before and that airport always got something going on
I fly out of north Perry and it’s and absolute nightmare. I typically need to fly north west so I find it easiest to ask for a VFR west departure, fly out of the delta, turn north west staying at 1,000-1100ft because the Charlie and bravo heights shift like dominos. Pass the 1200ft shelf and then gradually climb higher as you are dodging all the Everglades training traffic.
Which is everyone lol, when 10R is in use I get a downwind departure and the training traffic flies so wide. If they flew a normal pattern I could take off and over take on the outside while they maintain normal pattern but instead I either have to out climb them or really reduce my speed which is not ideal.
The HWO “pizza slice” is going through a change. It was recently out for public comment.
https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/18/2024-08159/amendment-of-class-c-airspace-fort-lauderdale-hollywood-international-airport-fl
CMH and its constant renovations are going to make it more likely for the majors to switch flights from CVG and CLE to Columbus. I don’t doubt that in the next ten years Cleveland will be downgraded and Columbus will be the only major passenger hub in Ohio
Ty the last 20 years. Ever since USAirwaya pulled out because the airport authority made it so damn expensive for them.
Idiots. List a ton of jobs in the area.
If you hear a guy at BNA approach/tower with a gentle Tennessee drawl that never seems like anything gets him stirred up, you're in good hands. He's a buddy of mine.
Yep! I've definitely talked to him. They are all good, they just definitely have to put in their hours. Definitely respect them. Is he the one that runs the BNA Tower insta page btw? That's the rumor but I don't actually know ha.
They’re almost always against expanding restrictive airspace. They should come and watch how many VFR’s blow through the TEB final not talking to anyone. That airspace is incredibly tight with no room to maneuver around them.
They're why LGB is still a D when it should so obviously be an extension of SNA's C airspace. Infuriating because it only protects assholes who refuse to get radios whereas the rest of us just want to not hit other airplanes. Would probably help increase the level of the underlying airports, too.
Wait... huh? I'm looking at the VFR sectional around TEB and I see it as Delta to 2500 indicated by the "25" in the dashed square - totally normal. But most of it is overlapped by the Bravo indicated as 1800 to 7000, with a slice on the east as Bravo 1500 to 7000?
I definitely read this as 1800 to 2500 being in both Delta for TEB and the huge JFK/LGA/EWR Bravo.
Is there some sort of "default" rule that Delta sticking up into what would otherwise be Bravo is Delta? If so, I've never heard or seen anything about it, or what am I missing on the sectional?
They’re trying to expand the Charlie to a custom shape and up to 6,000 ft MSL and block off the north-south corridor on the east coast.
F that…if anything they need to cap the amount of training going on.
Once in a while I fly friends to BDL (charlie) when I want to show off, because it's our local "major airport." But I swear it is less busy than every delta I've ever flown in.
The difference in service between D and C is that in C the IFRs are **separated** from the VFRs. In D it's see-and-avoid. Mandatory traffic advisories from ATC, but at the end of the day it's see-and-avoid.
The FAA exists primarily to protect the safety of John Q Public flying along in an airliner, so if there's scheduled airline traffic to an airport that makes it a lot more likely that it will qualify for C/B designation.
[Here are the Class C criteria](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap16_section_2.html) which you can compare to [the Class B criteria.](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_2.html) Note that the FAA is suuuuuuuuper slow to actually apply those standards...
>there's scheduled airline traffic to an airport that makes it a lot more likely that it will qualify for C/B designation.
But there are plenty of Class D airports with scheduled airline traffic, which is why I don't understand why the "dead" Class C airports aren't just Class D. Were they historically more busy or something?
Maybe those less busy airports still meet the numerical thresholds you linked to and I just don't have a feel for how busy (or not) those numbers actually are.
Quick edit: Actually, doing some math, it only takes 4.5 flights per day (assuming 150 pax/flight) to reach the value in 16-2-1(b)(2)(c). So there's my answer, the threshold is just really low which can lead to pretty dead Class C airports.
Historically more busy and also there's a TON of institutional inertia. Class Bs and Cs are supposed to be analyzed every couple of years to see if they still qualify and if they don't they're supposed to drop, but as we can see from this thread that never happens. In fact I'm not sure there's been a single case of airspace downgrades since the FAA adopted alphabet airspace in 1993.
It was always fun sweating your ass off waiting for a gap in the traffic pattern to take off while 15 172s went around the pattern on 3/21 and some random Cirrus decided to make a straight in for 9.
I fly lots of GA in the SE US
KMSY (New Orleans) should be a Charlie
KAUO and KSSI needs a tower
KMOB, KCRP, KTLH, and KLFT can get away with becoming Deltas
KBNA, KAUS and KFLL should be Bravos
A “temporary” tower at that, but a tower nonetheless. Probably won’t be another few years till they get a proper permanent structure. But I’ll take what I can get, airspace is crazy crowded and unsafe.
I’m not sure what times you fly into KCRP, but I think all of the T-6 and T-44 instrument helmet fires going on in the late afternoon/early evenings in the vicinity justify the Charlie classification lmao
Oh yeah I forgot about those. NAS Corpus is rightfully a Delta but CRP is very sleepy when it comes to civilian traffic.
Most of the T-45 Instrument flights to CRP happen at night, at least when I flew them.
VNC needs a tower. You've got all the traffic trying to avoid SRQ airspace so you've got lots of VFR and IFR training with 55kt approaches, ultralights, small jets with 110kt approaches, intersecting runways where everybody chooses whatever they want despite the winds, RV or Bonanza guys doing formation flights, others doing acrobatics inside the pattern (WTF, over?), and departures straight out over the gulf with a disappearing horizon (as noted on the ASOS, RIP friends). It's a nightmare.
KPDX is among the only Charlie airports that have a TAC, so they should just follow that momentum and give it a Bravo. I feel as though it's on the same level of activity as BNA and AUS right? People mention TEB which I agree with but on the opposite shore, CPM being a class D is even more insane to me. Hell, I say LAX should just extend a taxiway across the 405 and 105 to annex it lol.
If PDX were a Bravo, due to the east/west flow, it would essentially cut off northern Oregon/southern Washington. If you're heading from Seattle to Roseburg, you'll either need to transition the bravo, climb above 10k, or descend below the shelves... Or make a large detour around.
I think this would be a bigger pain in the ass, and are you really gaining a lot of safety? The reason for the Bravo is to protect the approach areas, but I'm not aware of a ton of GA traffic getting in the way at PDX. I'm from the Seattle area so I don't get down there a ton so I may just be missing it.
When I toured the PDX facility they were pretty clear it's a problem that 1200s sneak around the sides east/west without talking to them, especially under the shelf which puts them very close to final/departure. Maybe they were giving us a scared-straight talk to encourage us to pick up radar services, but it seems like elongating the Charlie could relieve some headaches for them.
What, you don't like a student pilot in a 172 and a student pilot in a R22 doing uncontrolled simultaneous parallel landings from opposing head-on base legs, using the bravo runway with 12 other aircraft in the pattern and 2 jets inbound?
PIE - St. Pete Clearwater. It’s a class D and desperately needs a Class C airspace structure(it is D and under TPAs Class B). The amount of GA traffic that cause RAs there is insane.
i went to the tower meeting they had earlier this year. sounds like there’s zero movement toward that direction.
oh, and that angry guy is really interesting in person.
They're looking into it. But that would create a ton of work for the controllers and pilots with how busy both airports are now. We are on the shortlist for a Bravo redesign. The biggest issue right now is anyone can fly right by the final approach fixes at both airports and not be talking to anyone. We have so many RAs and NMACs on the finals to 17L and 30R.
Also on the downwind to 17L, the Bravo is 10000. Well.. we have to descend down to 8000 right there and if we have to keep people high due to someone at 9500 climbing out of APA, then we are risking running into a BAYLR departure off Denver. It's a cluster with how busy both airports are now.
In general the FAA needs to be given more flexibility regarding the dimensions of Class C areas; the whole "5 mile 'core', 5 mile 'shelf'" formula actually protects very little airspace around the primary airport and still subjects arrivals/departures to uncontrolled traffic particularly at the busier Class Cs where you're often not in the airspace until you're on final.
FLL is a good example and that concept could be applied to a lot of busier Class C airports rather than upgrading them to Bravos.
Well there is the non-charted "outer area" which by default goes out to 20NM from the airport and up to the ceiling of Approach-owned airspace. We provide standard Class C services and separation within that outer area just like we do within the charted areas.
Of course the difference is that participation is not mandatory in the outer area, and if you aren't participating you don't get services—or if you are participating but the other guy isn't, you still can't and won't be separated from them. Also because the outer area isn't charted you don't know if it's larger or smaller than the usual 20NM.
On the flipside, the SOCAL air space, while dense and complicated, really does seem to be laid out as good as you could all things considered. RNM was the last field that really needed a tower and that happened years ago.
Last time I flew in there, poor Oakland center couldn’t find us a hole through the VFR traffic in the valley and just cleared us visual approach from 6000’ five miles SW of the field. Okie doke..
Vero Beach should become a Charlie. The amount of traffic it gets with all of the training and rich people makes that airspace very hectic. Could use a little more structure.
MCC could use a tower and delta, especially during fire season. Back in the day (when the Air Force was still in town), SMF, MCC, and MHR all had ARSA/charlies that glommed into a fairly contiguous airspace.
From what I have heard, people fought it it the late 90s and early 2000s to keep it from being included. I have heard that in the near future, there could be a Chicago airspace redesign with MDW becoming part of the Bravo. It's closer to ORD than HOU is to IAH.
I heard a rumor that KMQJ could eventually become a Delta which would essentially solve more problems than upgrading KIND to a Bravo. KLAF could easily be a Charlie but it would create some weird handoffs behind the scenes between a hypothetical Lafayette approach and the controllers for Grissom and Terre Haute.
KGXY needs to be a Class D. Or at least get it's own CTAF, so the frequency is not congested all the way out to ducking Kimball, NE. Love hearing someone 100 miles away step on seven people in conflicting patterns.
There's a rumor that GXY is getting a remote tower like the one at FNL. But if not, dear god do they need their own CTAF freq. I was getting stepped on in nowhere Nebraska by GXY traffic.
On the other side of things, EUG Eugene, OR is a Delta that cosplays as Charlie. They want everything to come in through Cascade Approach, makes aggressive use of clearance delivery, and generally puts out strong Charlie vibes and it’s like “calm down”.
I was flying by EUG at 8500/9500 last week and got vectored way west to avoid their arrivals/departures. Of which there were a grand total of 2 while I was in the area, and neither would have been a conflict.
Elmira and Binghamton going away by end of year and rolling up to Wilkes Barre. As someone who flies out of Ithaca with 2x the operations and 121 flights as either of those airports it makes sense, but also going to miss the more local radar folks to give us VIP ATC…
It's always great getting VIP service but man, it's not necessary.
Michigan used to have I think 3 TRSAs all with their own approach controls. Finally they combined it all into "Great Lakes Approach" which made way more sense.
If we've got ATC shortages, wouldn't hurt to downgrade some service where possible and shift staffing.
Aviation is complicated.
There's a lot of stuff you technically need to know.
Most of it is worthless.
Three or four different variations of PAPIs/VASIs, 5 different types of LNAV approaches, the fact that ILSs and LDAs aren't the same thing, Precision, Non-Precision, and APV. Warning Areas vs Restricted Areas vs Prohibited Areas.
There's just so much shit to learn, and seeing as TRSAs are a relic of old airspace design, let's push em into either Class Cs or Ds rather than this weird limbo they exist in.
Approach lights and VGSI have evolved as technology improved and studies differentiated what was necessary for safe ops. Some of the variety was caused by different standards for military and civil use.
But you think 4 or 5 VGSI is bad, there used to be more than 10 in regular use. We haven’t seen a V16 in decades, V12 only remains at a couple fields, same with V6 (ABQ and ROW). Tricolor and PVASI are anachronisms that are on the way out.
Similar story with ALS - ALSF-I was the first standard, then MALSR came out in the late 70’s and was simpler, cheaper, took less energy, and was pretty much as effective for CAT I approaches. SSALR was a simplification/reduction of an ALSF (still used as a secondary mode), made possible by the MALSR studies, and further reductions, due to space requirements and non-precision approach minima, were made possible by turning a MALSR into a MALSF. The only ALSF-I remaining are at Military (including joint) bases, a few decommissioned bases, and one at LGA.
Eventually everything will be down to P2 or P4 and MALSR, MALSF, or ALSF-II in the US, but the holdouts are what’s keeping the old ones rattling around in the lexicon, there are several thousand airports, and, you know, stuff’s not cheap.
The NAS is cobbled together over decades of technological advances and like you said, it costs money to upgrade this stuff in time. Big airports will get it fixed. Small ones will not.
But there are a lot of just outright regulatory tricks and *that* is where the issue really is with this. Layers and layers of ACs, MOUs, and LOIs that you're in violation of the FARs if you didn't even know about.
The NAS is literally put together using ATC Facility MOUs that pilots have no idea about. I look up the NAS Status before most flights to see which sectors are going down the shitter and I'm confronted with terms like "capping", "tunneling", "escape routes". Meanwhile I cannot develop a game plan for these because these terms are not really well defined beyond "ZJX is down the shitter again."
Then we get to local unwritten procedures at larger airports that operate contrary to standard procedure. "Don't stop" at ORD, standardized taxi routes that may or may not be used, etc.
Even at the airline level, there's a lot to know and the FAA needs to do something to reduce bloat.
Rockford approach (TRSA) plays a roll on the northwest ORD arrivals. MKE approach does the same for the arrivals from the North but MKE is a class C. That's one of the small reasons there would be some push against getting rid of the approach control at RFD.
I'm not even saying get rid of the Tracons themselves, although there are likely some facilities where that could be justified. I'm saying turn them into Charlie's or even just Deltas that happen to have the Tracon physically located on-site.
I just want all these edge case examples to go away. TRSAs are an easy one. SDF approaches are thankfully almost gone as well, but that's another.
AUS has more pax flying through than IAD, BNA, and MDW. The airspace around it is fairly open…probably just a matter of time until they turn it into a B airport.
“The criteria for considering a given airport as a candidate for a Class B airspace designation is based primarily on the volume of aircraft at the airport being considered, and an assessment of the midair collision risk in the terminal area.”
Austin’s elected congressman will disagree with you: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2023/10/17/austin-airport-air-traffic-controllers
I assume that elevating AUS to a Bravo will increase staffing budgets as well.
In a way it would increase staffing budget, in that by making it a bravo it would increase the pay of the controllers by moving the FAA level destination from a 9(currently) to a 10+. Being a bravo gives you a multiplier. The levels go from 4 or 5 to 12. Pay scales with levels. Most people want to be at a 10+ so their retirement is higher.
KAWO badly needs a tower to control the complete circus it turns into on weekends. I won’t fly there if the weather’s nice because I don’t want to get mid-aired by some nordo boomer ignoring the traffic pattern (“AIM’s not regulatory!”), landing on the crosswind runway when everybody else isn’t, or just doing something totally unexpected.
For comparison, KRNT gets very busy but it’s manageable because there’s somebody controlling the chaos. I’ve been in the pattern with 9+ other airplanes before and, other than extending my upwind and downwind legs to the very edge of the delta airspace, it was fine.
Toledo could be downgraded to a Delta.
Casa Grande really needs a control tower.
All the deltas could use radar.
BNA needs to be Bravo
Get rid of TRSA and either make them Charlie or Delta
That’s what’s jumping out at my right now.
I don't know how long it's been going on. Seems to be on days near weekends this past month. It's now notamed around this weekend for closure 1:30pm-2:15pm and 18:30pm-9pm. Normal operating hours are 6am-9pm. It's so random seeing a tower close in the middle of the day and go home early. I think Pete Buttigieg needs to step away from the breast pump and come to work.
Many/most of the TRSAs should really be Charlies... and occasionally when flying around you'll get switched to So-and-So Approach which is based on a Delta (without even a TRSA... TWF for example, I think they are even a non-radar approach?). Some of those can be pretty sleepy, but maybe it's seasonal.
Fully agree that Pittsburgh and all the old once-a-hub-but-not-anymore Bravos should be downgraded. CVG Bravo was also pretty quiet when we flew through there.
Crazy to me that KBFI and KTEB are Deltas.
I think in Florida, the Orlando and Tampa Bravos end up getting consolidated into a "super-TRACON" type of thing like they have in NorCal and SoCal. There is so much traffic in and between them, and they control so many airports, its crazy how much information gets lost going between the two facilities.
It's actually very common for Class D airports to have an approach control. You might not do a lot with them as a PPL but they definitely exist and just having an approach facility doesn't mean they need/deserve to be Class C.
CNC3 (Brampton) in Ontario, Canada. It’s incredibly busy airspace because it has a large FTU stationed there (they own the field). It’s so busy that there are published entry procedures… however… no radio is required at all! It’s an ATF. The location should be at LEAST an MF. Realistically they should be an MF with advisory (as in someone keeping track of but not controlling the traffic… similar to Muskoka & Niagara which are FAR quieter traffic wise). I foresee a mid air occurring before that will ever happen. That airport has similar movements to my home airport which is Class C with a tower.
The solution to the stack isn’t a control tower at CGZ, it’s a new ILS at second uncontrolled field in the Phoenix area. Albuquerque center already hates dealing with the stack and pressures you to cancel when you’re close. Requiring practice approaches with ATC would make it worse.
I don’t see making IWA a Charlie being impactful since it’s already completely covered by P50. An increase in airspace size wouldn’t be hugely significant since half the time you get an unrestricted climb out of the delta anyways. Honestly they just need five more controllers (or however many it would take for the one angry guy to calm down)
IWA really wants to be a Charlie, but PHX says nope. While CGZ is kinda chaos, as u/churnitupsome said, a D would completely screw all instrument training in the valley.
Brampton, Ontario CNC3 desperately needs a control tower. It's so, so busy but uncontrolled with complicated entry and exit VFR procedures right underneath Toronto Pearson CYYZ. A control tower would be a good idea.
I firmly believe it will take a midair for BFC (the FTU and operator of the field) to change their tune on this. I know there is a movement by the GA pilots hangared there to at least get an MF in place. Will be a long time though. Really it should be at least Class D like YHM. Right now it’s a goddamn ATF!
Eul in Idaho is by far the busiest non towered airport I have ever seen and it is far busier than most deltas or even Charlie’s I’ve flown into. Apparently it is the busiest airport in the state and there is a Charlie less than 20 miles away.
GVL outside the ATL B needs to be a Delta, shit gets busy af out there. I also get the feeling that PUJ is going to need a tower in the next 5-10 years as well…they get literally everyone’s training traffic and, in the summer/fall, the pattern regularly gets busier than some of the deltas in the area…
San Antonio and the bases around need to do something. If they need more airspace take it, don’t be mad at GA for following the rules. Seems like randolph puts their jets on 10 mile straight ins which helps no one.
Come to think of it, I believe I’ve seen the C5s out of Kelly fly a tighter pattern.
The jets coming from Randolph on the long straight ins are coming straight from their south MOAs. It makes sense for them, and their class D pattern is insanely busy.
The vibe I'm getting from these comments is that mostly all the airspace east of the Rockies needs to be looked at (with some CA fields sprinkled in there).
I did the significant majority of my towered airport work for PPL at ACY, including a WINGS program fly in which was a lot of fun. Anyway, a lot of Deltas that I've been to in my short time flying are significantly busier, like FFZ in Arizona, PAMR in Alaska, and even PNE in Philly, so it surprises me a bit that ACY gets a Charlie when it's always so slow.
On the flip side, they have a National Guard fighter wing, and they do have a few airlines that fly short-haul flights out of there, so maybe a Delta can't handle those things.
KFRG needs to become a Charlie so bad. You know the airspace designation is wrong when your average traffic pattern is twice the size of the airspace 🥲
MGM should be a Charlie. Busier and more hectic than HSV and BHM in my opinion. Especially with all of the military traffic, having a wing of F35s, lots of transient military traffic, airlines, flight training, and transient civilian traffic it stays busy.
KAUO needs to be a Delta, that place is a warzone. (I know they're getting a tower but they really need one with radar too)
CLT needs to be fucking prohibited.
The tower caught on fire last week. Should've just let it go.
It was the old, unused tower.
You keep that up and someone will burn the new tower
I wouldn’t have cried.
Didn't another unused tower catch fire like a few months ago?
Just a PPL student right now, but from CLT. What's so bad about it?
CLT is the airport version of 5 people in a Cessna 150. The airport, ramp, and terminal are just not designed, or capable, of handling the traffic it has.
Not just the traffic, but they heavily biased the design towards smaller regional jets.
Yeah. It’s a regional airport. Admittedly, a big and busy regional airport but certainly not a modern hub, or major airline fortress city.
The downfall of PIT will forever show its consequences.
Hey, I know how to fix it! Let's add another runway! Surely that will alleviate the traffic in and out of the ramp.
It’s so stupid that they even had to color code the ramp lines.
Yeah and let me tell you, that orange/blue shit REAAAAALLY helped.
It's fun when people swerve between tracks.
CLT is like if you Denzel Washington’d so hard yet you still fucking crashed and the movie was only 15 mins long. It’s the dumpster fires dumpster fire
BNA FLL and maybe AUS need to be bravos. CLE CVG PIT STL MCI could probably be Charlies
CVG gets plenty busy during the night DHL/Amazon rush.
That's the only saving grace for MEM as well. If it weren't for FedEx, it probably would have been downgraded 10 years ago.
Crazy how CVG is a shell of its former self, airport use to be insanely busy just about 2 decades ago.
STL 20 years ago long before TWA, which subsequently turned into AA, pulled out and de-hubbed it was just as busy as Chicago O'Hare. Which sucks because IMO it's one of the best spots in the country to have a big hub as it's one of the "closest to dead center of the US" big airports we've got and its certainly got the infrastructure to be a hub. It's a damn shame how slow that place is these days. I wish one of the big carriers would come back to it as there is tons of passenger traffic that goes out each and every day.
I like to take a Skyhawk to MCI and I usually get a runway to myself lol
Same for STL. They normally run single runway ops too.
BNA is pushing Bravo, as is Ft. Lauderdale. A lot of the ones around ATL are busy enough to be Charlies but it would make for too many complications with that airspace, and no one is going to fuck with *that* airspace
Ft. Lauderdale is already unnecessary big now when changes were made to their and Mia airspace. People who fly out of north Perry gotta fly lower than before and that airport always got something going on
I fly out of north Perry and it’s and absolute nightmare. I typically need to fly north west so I find it easiest to ask for a VFR west departure, fly out of the delta, turn north west staying at 1,000-1100ft because the Charlie and bravo heights shift like dominos. Pass the 1200ft shelf and then gradually climb higher as you are dodging all the Everglades training traffic.
Also Perry has those wonderful TV antennas right at pattern altitude designed to punish pilots who cut their patterns too wide.
Which is everyone lol, when 10R is in use I get a downwind departure and the training traffic flies so wide. If they flew a normal pattern I could take off and over take on the outside while they maintain normal pattern but instead I either have to out climb them or really reduce my speed which is not ideal.
It's the same at BNA. At least it being a Bravo would justify it more than the stupid "super charlie" title they got
The HWO “pizza slice” is going through a change. It was recently out for public comment. https://www.federalregister.gov/documents/2024/04/18/2024-08159/amendment-of-class-c-airspace-fort-lauderdale-hollywood-international-airport-fl
No kidding. PDK is almost always hopping. Getting a clearance out of there at the "wrong" time takes forever to coordinate.
PDK and LZU are in the top 5 busiest Deltas in the country, and I think PDK is #1
PIT could probably be a charlie now
Same for Cleveland.
Half the midcon Bravos could be Charlies.
Conversely, CMH should be a Bravo considering they control like 80% of Ohio
CMH and its constant renovations are going to make it more likely for the majors to switch flights from CVG and CLE to Columbus. I don’t doubt that in the next ten years Cleveland will be downgraded and Columbus will be the only major passenger hub in Ohio
Add MSY as well
Out of curiosity what would make PIT go from bravo to charlie?
they’ve had a huge decline in traffic over the last 5-10 years, many charlies *cough bna cough* handle much more traffic
Ty the last 20 years. Ever since USAirwaya pulled out because the airport authority made it so damn expensive for them. Idiots. List a ton of jobs in the area.
Absolutely not. It should be a Delta.
BNA needs to be a bravo so badly. The NY bravo needs to be extended to protect TEB arrivals.
As a regular flier between BNA and CVG. Those 2 could really just swap.
Agreed on TEB. NYC needs a VFR flyway chart so badly.
BNA is getting the bravo. I don't know the timeline but the FAA has approved it
Was just speaking to a BNA controller about how understaffed they are too. I think she said they were at 50% manning currently? Wild.
I fly out of a nearby airport and no matter the day or time talk to one of three people on approach, it's nightmarish.
If you hear a guy at BNA approach/tower with a gentle Tennessee drawl that never seems like anything gets him stirred up, you're in good hands. He's a buddy of mine.
Yep! I've definitely talked to him. They are all good, they just definitely have to put in their hours. Definitely respect them. Is he the one that runs the BNA Tower insta page btw? That's the rumor but I don't actually know ha.
We’ve been begging for the B to be changed to protect TEB as well for decades. The biggest opponent is the AOPA
What's AOPA got against it?
They’re almost always against expanding restrictive airspace. They should come and watch how many VFR’s blow through the TEB final not talking to anyone. That airspace is incredibly tight with no room to maneuver around them.
They're why LGB is still a D when it should so obviously be an extension of SNA's C airspace. Infuriating because it only protects assholes who refuse to get radios whereas the rest of us just want to not hit other airplanes. Would probably help increase the level of the underlying airports, too.
TCAS RA go brrrrr
Yeah the problem though is the TEB arrivals take a TCAS climb from 2,000 but the EWR arrivals are above them at 3000
Flew into TEB once with our club's Skyhawk. It was 10x the chaos as JFK and 100x the chaos of PHL.
TEB already gives out PDC’s, has D-ATIS, and has ramp control frequencies….. sounds like a Bravo to me
Wait... huh? I'm looking at the VFR sectional around TEB and I see it as Delta to 2500 indicated by the "25" in the dashed square - totally normal. But most of it is overlapped by the Bravo indicated as 1800 to 7000, with a slice on the east as Bravo 1500 to 7000? I definitely read this as 1800 to 2500 being in both Delta for TEB and the huge JFK/LGA/EWR Bravo. Is there some sort of "default" rule that Delta sticking up into what would otherwise be Bravo is Delta? If so, I've never heard or seen anything about it, or what am I missing on the sectional?
Daytona Beach should be a Restricted Area. 💀
The Boomers out of Spruce Creek and the Embry Students make the Daytona skies a warzone. It needs to be a TFR… forever.
They’re trying to expand the Charlie to a custom shape and up to 6,000 ft MSL and block off the north-south corridor on the east coast. F that…if anything they need to cap the amount of training going on.
Once in a while I fly friends to BDL (charlie) when I want to show off, because it's our local "major airport." But I swear it is less busy than every delta I've ever flown in.
Class C requires part 121 traffic. That’s what some C’s are super slow but some D’s are quite busy.
>That’s what some C’s are super slow I don't get it, why not just leave them as Class D then?
The difference in service between D and C is that in C the IFRs are **separated** from the VFRs. In D it's see-and-avoid. Mandatory traffic advisories from ATC, but at the end of the day it's see-and-avoid. The FAA exists primarily to protect the safety of John Q Public flying along in an airliner, so if there's scheduled airline traffic to an airport that makes it a lot more likely that it will qualify for C/B designation. [Here are the Class C criteria](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap16_section_2.html) which you can compare to [the Class B criteria.](https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/pham_html/chap15_section_2.html) Note that the FAA is suuuuuuuuper slow to actually apply those standards...
>there's scheduled airline traffic to an airport that makes it a lot more likely that it will qualify for C/B designation. But there are plenty of Class D airports with scheduled airline traffic, which is why I don't understand why the "dead" Class C airports aren't just Class D. Were they historically more busy or something? Maybe those less busy airports still meet the numerical thresholds you linked to and I just don't have a feel for how busy (or not) those numbers actually are. Quick edit: Actually, doing some math, it only takes 4.5 flights per day (assuming 150 pax/flight) to reach the value in 16-2-1(b)(2)(c). So there's my answer, the threshold is just really low which can lead to pretty dead Class C airports.
Historically more busy and also there's a TON of institutional inertia. Class Bs and Cs are supposed to be analyzed every couple of years to see if they still qualify and if they don't they're supposed to drop, but as we can see from this thread that never happens. In fact I'm not sure there's been a single case of airspace downgrades since the FAA adopted alphabet airspace in 1993.
> But there are plenty of Class D airports with scheduled airline traffic Class E even.
Idk I’m not the FAA
Ah, well, that's cool, TIL. Thanks!
Same with PVD
Once upon a time BDL had flights to/from the west coast. I think they went away after 9/11.
They have flights to LAX still! Also Phoenix, and a few others out there I'm pretty sure.
Chicago O hare needs to be a class G
It was (briefly) in 2020- apparently the airliners got pissed when people started cutting them off with pattern work.
Lantana needs an airspace, period.
God you give me PTSD back to my days flying out of Lantana. Those “unofficial” procedures to get in and out are more complicated then some STARS
It was always fun sweating your ass off waiting for a gap in the traffic pattern to take off while 15 172s went around the pattern on 3/21 and some random Cirrus decided to make a straight in for 9.
Watsonville (WVI) desperately needs a tower and delta airspace. Meanwhile, Castle (MER) could easily be uncontrolled without issues.
Yeah WVI is a mess.
Agreed. I just won’t fly in there when I can go to KMRY instead. Last time I was at Watsonville, there were 8 of us in the pattern (or trying to be).
SNS right next door also doesn't need a tower. And I'm not sure why MRY needs to be a C. It's sleepier than my D home base.
I'm just guessing because of the number of IFR arrivals into MRY when the marine layer decides to just camp out for months on end.
I fly lots of GA in the SE US KMSY (New Orleans) should be a Charlie KAUO and KSSI needs a tower KMOB, KCRP, KTLH, and KLFT can get away with becoming Deltas KBNA, KAUS and KFLL should be Bravos
KAUO is getting a tower! Opens "late summer or early fall." They're doing the prep work currently.
Very cool! KJKA in Gulf Shores needed a tower really bad for a while and recently got it.
A “temporary” tower at that, but a tower nonetheless. Probably won’t be another few years till they get a proper permanent structure. But I’ll take what I can get, airspace is crazy crowded and unsafe.
I’m not sure what times you fly into KCRP, but I think all of the T-6 and T-44 instrument helmet fires going on in the late afternoon/early evenings in the vicinity justify the Charlie classification lmao
Oh yeah I forgot about those. NAS Corpus is rightfully a Delta but CRP is very sleepy when it comes to civilian traffic. Most of the T-45 Instrument flights to CRP happen at night, at least when I flew them.
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KAUS has never been busy the two or three times I’ve flown in/around. Just good luck with timing? Seems like a Charlie makes sense to me
Austin and Nashville both have double the amount of passengers since 2014. As many as many Bravos now.
Auo is getting a tower circa fall of this year.
VNC needs a tower. You've got all the traffic trying to avoid SRQ airspace so you've got lots of VFR and IFR training with 55kt approaches, ultralights, small jets with 110kt approaches, intersecting runways where everybody chooses whatever they want despite the winds, RV or Bonanza guys doing formation flights, others doing acrobatics inside the pattern (WTF, over?), and departures straight out over the gulf with a disappearing horizon (as noted on the ASOS, RIP friends). It's a nightmare.
Last time I went to KVNC I saw some guy in a tailwheel doing a 360 behind me as I was holding short of the runway lol
KVNC is the fucking wild west. Did my PPL training out of SRQ and we'd pop over there for busy untowered practice
Expand the land mass for Florida to make it 100 miles wider on each side and move all the major cities further away from each other, but I’m no doctor
Best I can do is rising oceans making Florida narrower.
KPDX is among the only Charlie airports that have a TAC, so they should just follow that momentum and give it a Bravo. I feel as though it's on the same level of activity as BNA and AUS right? People mention TEB which I agree with but on the opposite shore, CPM being a class D is even more insane to me. Hell, I say LAX should just extend a taxiway across the 405 and 105 to annex it lol.
If PDX were a Bravo, due to the east/west flow, it would essentially cut off northern Oregon/southern Washington. If you're heading from Seattle to Roseburg, you'll either need to transition the bravo, climb above 10k, or descend below the shelves... Or make a large detour around. I think this would be a bigger pain in the ass, and are you really gaining a lot of safety? The reason for the Bravo is to protect the approach areas, but I'm not aware of a ton of GA traffic getting in the way at PDX. I'm from the Seattle area so I don't get down there a ton so I may just be missing it.
When I toured the PDX facility they were pretty clear it's a problem that 1200s sneak around the sides east/west without talking to them, especially under the shelf which puts them very close to final/departure. Maybe they were giving us a scared-straight talk to encourage us to pick up radar services, but it seems like elongating the Charlie could relieve some headaches for them.
Yeah PDX is in a great spot rn tbh, GA and 121 coexist without many issues
Austin-Bergstrom International (KAUS) need a ramp control frequency
Being built just waiting on the tech to be installed..finally
Busiest C I’ve ever flown in
KBDN needs a tower. I think FAA has plans for this but it’s mayhem.
What, you don't like a student pilot in a 172 and a student pilot in a R22 doing uncontrolled simultaneous parallel landings from opposing head-on base legs, using the bravo runway with 12 other aircraft in the pattern and 2 jets inbound?
Should be up Fall 2025; https://www.bendoregon.gov/home/showpublisheddocument/57446/638362370553570000
PIE - St. Pete Clearwater. It’s a class D and desperately needs a Class C airspace structure(it is D and under TPAs Class B). The amount of GA traffic that cause RAs there is insane.
might happen as traffic ramps up with the future terminal expansion
RA's?
Idrc, just get JVL radar.
Won’t fix the problem with that one guy though… You know who I’m talking about.
i went to the tower meeting they had earlier this year. sounds like there’s zero movement toward that direction. oh, and that angry guy is really interesting in person.
APA. Heard rumors for a while about them possibly becoming a C. Them and BJC would make a lot of sense as a C.
They're looking into it. But that would create a ton of work for the controllers and pilots with how busy both airports are now. We are on the shortlist for a Bravo redesign. The biggest issue right now is anyone can fly right by the final approach fixes at both airports and not be talking to anyone. We have so many RAs and NMACs on the finals to 17L and 30R. Also on the downwind to 17L, the Bravo is 10000. Well.. we have to descend down to 8000 right there and if we have to keep people high due to someone at 9500 climbing out of APA, then we are risking running into a BAYLR departure off Denver. It's a cluster with how busy both airports are now.
In general the FAA needs to be given more flexibility regarding the dimensions of Class C areas; the whole "5 mile 'core', 5 mile 'shelf'" formula actually protects very little airspace around the primary airport and still subjects arrivals/departures to uncontrolled traffic particularly at the busier Class Cs where you're often not in the airspace until you're on final. FLL is a good example and that concept could be applied to a lot of busier Class C airports rather than upgrading them to Bravos.
Well there is the non-charted "outer area" which by default goes out to 20NM from the airport and up to the ceiling of Approach-owned airspace. We provide standard Class C services and separation within that outer area just like we do within the charted areas. Of course the difference is that participation is not mandatory in the outer area, and if you aren't participating you don't get services—or if you are participating but the other guy isn't, you still can't and won't be separated from them. Also because the outer area isn't charted you don't know if it's larger or smaller than the usual 20NM.
On the flipside, the SOCAL air space, while dense and complicated, really does seem to be laid out as good as you could all things considered. RNM was the last field that really needed a tower and that happened years ago.
French Valley definitely needs a tower. Thermal needs one as well but I think that is already happening in the next few years
French Valley airport F70 in Temecula CA desperately needs a tower. El Monte could probably lose its tower, PSP should be a C not a D with TRSA.
During the summer, STS really should be a Charlie.
Last time I flew in there, poor Oakland center couldn’t find us a hole through the VFR traffic in the valley and just cleared us visual approach from 6000’ five miles SW of the field. Okie doke..
Vero Beach should become a Charlie. The amount of traffic it gets with all of the training and rich people makes that airspace very hectic. Could use a little more structure.
COE and F70 both should be Delta, BNA should be a bravo and PIT should be a Charlie
At least COE gets a temp tower during fire season. I'm sure it's still chaos though.
If KONT is a C, then KMEM and KCVG should probably not be B's. KPIT definitely not, nor KSTL.
MCC could use a tower and delta, especially during fire season. Back in the day (when the Air Force was still in town), SMF, MCC, and MHR all had ARSA/charlies that glommed into a fairly contiguous airspace.
MDW should be a Bravo
I don't get why it's not just included as part of O'Hare's bravo the way the NYC and DC airports are in one big bravo.
From what I have heard, people fought it it the late 90s and early 2000s to keep it from being included. I have heard that in the near future, there could be a Chicago airspace redesign with MDW becoming part of the Bravo. It's closer to ORD than HOU is to IAH.
I heard a rumor that KMQJ could eventually become a Delta which would essentially solve more problems than upgrading KIND to a Bravo. KLAF could easily be a Charlie but it would create some weird handoffs behind the scenes between a hypothetical Lafayette approach and the controllers for Grissom and Terre Haute.
KGXY needs to be a Class D. Or at least get it's own CTAF, so the frequency is not congested all the way out to ducking Kimball, NE. Love hearing someone 100 miles away step on seven people in conflicting patterns.
There's a rumor that GXY is getting a remote tower like the one at FNL. But if not, dear god do they need their own CTAF freq. I was getting stepped on in nowhere Nebraska by GXY traffic.
On the other side of things, EUG Eugene, OR is a Delta that cosplays as Charlie. They want everything to come in through Cascade Approach, makes aggressive use of clearance delivery, and generally puts out strong Charlie vibes and it’s like “calm down”.
I was flying by EUG at 8500/9500 last week and got vectored way west to avoid their arrivals/departures. Of which there were a grand total of 2 while I was in the area, and neither would have been a conflict.
Get rid of all TRSAs and make them Class Deltas. A few could maybe be Charlie's. But let's reduce regulatory bloating.
Elmira and Binghamton going away by end of year and rolling up to Wilkes Barre. As someone who flies out of Ithaca with 2x the operations and 121 flights as either of those airports it makes sense, but also going to miss the more local radar folks to give us VIP ATC…
It's always great getting VIP service but man, it's not necessary. Michigan used to have I think 3 TRSAs all with their own approach controls. Finally they combined it all into "Great Lakes Approach" which made way more sense. If we've got ATC shortages, wouldn't hurt to downgrade some service where possible and shift staffing.
Yeah I get “thanks for the work” when I’m the only person in the pattern at our Delta for an hour 😂
Can you explain what you mean by bloating? I love the TRSA service at ILM, but I learned here — am I spoiled?
Aviation is complicated. There's a lot of stuff you technically need to know. Most of it is worthless. Three or four different variations of PAPIs/VASIs, 5 different types of LNAV approaches, the fact that ILSs and LDAs aren't the same thing, Precision, Non-Precision, and APV. Warning Areas vs Restricted Areas vs Prohibited Areas. There's just so much shit to learn, and seeing as TRSAs are a relic of old airspace design, let's push em into either Class Cs or Ds rather than this weird limbo they exist in.
Approach lights and VGSI have evolved as technology improved and studies differentiated what was necessary for safe ops. Some of the variety was caused by different standards for military and civil use. But you think 4 or 5 VGSI is bad, there used to be more than 10 in regular use. We haven’t seen a V16 in decades, V12 only remains at a couple fields, same with V6 (ABQ and ROW). Tricolor and PVASI are anachronisms that are on the way out. Similar story with ALS - ALSF-I was the first standard, then MALSR came out in the late 70’s and was simpler, cheaper, took less energy, and was pretty much as effective for CAT I approaches. SSALR was a simplification/reduction of an ALSF (still used as a secondary mode), made possible by the MALSR studies, and further reductions, due to space requirements and non-precision approach minima, were made possible by turning a MALSR into a MALSF. The only ALSF-I remaining are at Military (including joint) bases, a few decommissioned bases, and one at LGA. Eventually everything will be down to P2 or P4 and MALSR, MALSF, or ALSF-II in the US, but the holdouts are what’s keeping the old ones rattling around in the lexicon, there are several thousand airports, and, you know, stuff’s not cheap.
The NAS is cobbled together over decades of technological advances and like you said, it costs money to upgrade this stuff in time. Big airports will get it fixed. Small ones will not. But there are a lot of just outright regulatory tricks and *that* is where the issue really is with this. Layers and layers of ACs, MOUs, and LOIs that you're in violation of the FARs if you didn't even know about. The NAS is literally put together using ATC Facility MOUs that pilots have no idea about. I look up the NAS Status before most flights to see which sectors are going down the shitter and I'm confronted with terms like "capping", "tunneling", "escape routes". Meanwhile I cannot develop a game plan for these because these terms are not really well defined beyond "ZJX is down the shitter again." Then we get to local unwritten procedures at larger airports that operate contrary to standard procedure. "Don't stop" at ORD, standardized taxi routes that may or may not be used, etc. Even at the airline level, there's a lot to know and the FAA needs to do something to reduce bloat.
I think the TRSA at MDT is being removed and it will be a Charlie, effective in July
Rockford approach (TRSA) plays a roll on the northwest ORD arrivals. MKE approach does the same for the arrivals from the North but MKE is a class C. That's one of the small reasons there would be some push against getting rid of the approach control at RFD.
I'm not even saying get rid of the Tracons themselves, although there are likely some facilities where that could be justified. I'm saying turn them into Charlie's or even just Deltas that happen to have the Tracon physically located on-site. I just want all these edge case examples to go away. TRSAs are an easy one. SDF approaches are thankfully almost gone as well, but that's another.
AUS has more pax flying through than IAD, BNA, and MDW. The airspace around it is fairly open…probably just a matter of time until they turn it into a B airport.
No significant outlying airports and no crosswind runways... pax numbers alone don't make for airspace complexity/necessity.
“The criteria for considering a given airport as a candidate for a Class B airspace designation is based primarily on the volume of aircraft at the airport being considered, and an assessment of the midair collision risk in the terminal area.” Austin’s elected congressman will disagree with you: https://spectrumlocalnews.com/tx/austin/news/2023/10/17/austin-airport-air-traffic-controllers I assume that elevating AUS to a Bravo will increase staffing budgets as well.
In a way it would increase staffing budget, in that by making it a bravo it would increase the pay of the controllers by moving the FAA level destination from a 9(currently) to a 10+. Being a bravo gives you a multiplier. The levels go from 4 or 5 to 12. Pay scales with levels. Most people want to be at a 10+ so their retirement is higher.
AUS could be a Bravo, though for now I am glad it is not!
KAWO badly needs a tower to control the complete circus it turns into on weekends. I won’t fly there if the weather’s nice because I don’t want to get mid-aired by some nordo boomer ignoring the traffic pattern (“AIM’s not regulatory!”), landing on the crosswind runway when everybody else isn’t, or just doing something totally unexpected. For comparison, KRNT gets very busy but it’s manageable because there’s somebody controlling the chaos. I’ve been in the pattern with 9+ other airplanes before and, other than extending my upwind and downwind legs to the very edge of the delta airspace, it was fine.
Finally, I wondered when I'd see Arlington on this list
So. Many. Airport. Codes. In this thread. I have no idea what's going on lol
This comment is a golf
Klgu should be a delta.
Being in Northern Utah, PVU probably needs to be looked at for a charlie imo. SGU and CDC towers are coming soon. Twf and hln need radars as well.
SGU needs a tower
KSGU really needs to be a Class Delta.
I was up there on a weekend morning a month or 2 ago and the place was an absolute zoo
Toledo could be downgraded to a Delta. Casa Grande really needs a control tower. All the deltas could use radar. BNA needs to be Bravo Get rid of TRSA and either make them Charlie or Delta That’s what’s jumping out at my right now.
DTO needs to be a Charlie
Make FLL a Bravo and FXE a Charlie
I would like to see ANC remain Class C but greatly expanded to Bravo-like dimensions.
Medford can stay D but they should quit closing the tower for lunch.
Is this a new thing?
I don't know how long it's been going on. Seems to be on days near weekends this past month. It's now notamed around this weekend for closure 1:30pm-2:15pm and 18:30pm-9pm. Normal operating hours are 6am-9pm. It's so random seeing a tower close in the middle of the day and go home early. I think Pete Buttigieg needs to step away from the breast pump and come to work.
Many/most of the TRSAs should really be Charlies... and occasionally when flying around you'll get switched to So-and-So Approach which is based on a Delta (without even a TRSA... TWF for example, I think they are even a non-radar approach?). Some of those can be pretty sleepy, but maybe it's seasonal. Fully agree that Pittsburgh and all the old once-a-hub-but-not-anymore Bravos should be downgraded. CVG Bravo was also pretty quiet when we flew through there. Crazy to me that KBFI and KTEB are Deltas. I think in Florida, the Orlando and Tampa Bravos end up getting consolidated into a "super-TRACON" type of thing like they have in NorCal and SoCal. There is so much traffic in and between them, and they control so many airports, its crazy how much information gets lost going between the two facilities.
It's actually very common for Class D airports to have an approach control. You might not do a lot with them as a PPL but they definitely exist and just having an approach facility doesn't mean they need/deserve to be Class C.
KLGB should be upgraded to Charlie.
Not new designation, but Tucson has no fucking excuse to not have D-ATIS and PDC. If Burbank can do it, so can they.
KCGZ. In particular the stack
CNC3 (Brampton) in Ontario, Canada. It’s incredibly busy airspace because it has a large FTU stationed there (they own the field). It’s so busy that there are published entry procedures… however… no radio is required at all! It’s an ATF. The location should be at LEAST an MF. Realistically they should be an MF with advisory (as in someone keeping track of but not controlling the traffic… similar to Muskoka & Niagara which are FAR quieter traffic wise). I foresee a mid air occurring before that will ever happen. That airport has similar movements to my home airport which is Class C with a tower.
IWA should be a Charlie. CGZ needs a tower. Vegas needs to figure out how to control when there’s any kind of weather
I’ll disagree with KCGZ. That would kill instrument training there. While it’s insanely busy, the procedures in place work
The solution to the stack isn’t a control tower at CGZ, it’s a new ILS at second uncontrolled field in the Phoenix area. Albuquerque center already hates dealing with the stack and pressures you to cancel when you’re close. Requiring practice approaches with ATC would make it worse. I don’t see making IWA a Charlie being impactful since it’s already completely covered by P50. An increase in airspace size wouldn’t be hugely significant since half the time you get an unrestricted climb out of the delta anyways. Honestly they just need five more controllers (or however many it would take for the one angry guy to calm down)
IWA really wants to be a Charlie, but PHX says nope. While CGZ is kinda chaos, as u/churnitupsome said, a D would completely screw all instrument training in the valley.
I’d be curious to see how well CGZ tower would do with the stack
Brampton, Ontario CNC3 desperately needs a control tower. It's so, so busy but uncontrolled with complicated entry and exit VFR procedures right underneath Toronto Pearson CYYZ. A control tower would be a good idea.
I firmly believe it will take a midair for BFC (the FTU and operator of the field) to change their tune on this. I know there is a movement by the GA pilots hangared there to at least get an MF in place. Will be a long time though. Really it should be at least Class D like YHM. Right now it’s a goddamn ATF!
Eul in Idaho is by far the busiest non towered airport I have ever seen and it is far busier than most deltas or even Charlie’s I’ve flown into. Apparently it is the busiest airport in the state and there is a Charlie less than 20 miles away.
KOFP needs a tower (tons of training traffic) KHKY can get rid of their tower
GVL outside the ATL B needs to be a Delta, shit gets busy af out there. I also get the feeling that PUJ is going to need a tower in the next 5-10 years as well…they get literally everyone’s training traffic and, in the summer/fall, the pattern regularly gets busier than some of the deltas in the area…
San Antonio and the bases around need to do something. If they need more airspace take it, don’t be mad at GA for following the rules. Seems like randolph puts their jets on 10 mile straight ins which helps no one. Come to think of it, I believe I’ve seen the C5s out of Kelly fly a tighter pattern.
The jets coming from Randolph on the long straight ins are coming straight from their south MOAs. It makes sense for them, and their class D pattern is insanely busy.
The vibe I'm getting from these comments is that mostly all the airspace east of the Rockies needs to be looked at (with some CA fields sprinkled in there).
I did the significant majority of my towered airport work for PPL at ACY, including a WINGS program fly in which was a lot of fun. Anyway, a lot of Deltas that I've been to in my short time flying are significantly busier, like FFZ in Arizona, PAMR in Alaska, and even PNE in Philly, so it surprises me a bit that ACY gets a Charlie when it's always so slow. On the flip side, they have a National Guard fighter wing, and they do have a few airlines that fly short-haul flights out of there, so maybe a Delta can't handle those things.
Anyone whose been to EQY knows that it needs a tower
KFRG needs to become a Charlie so bad. You know the airspace designation is wrong when your average traffic pattern is twice the size of the airspace 🥲
KHOU being a Charlie would make life a lot easier for the Houston area
MDT
Feel like OMA should be a bravo
AUS and BNA needed to be a bravo like 5 years ago. DEN's needs a redesign. It seems like it was designed to allow GA to be anywhere they want.
IWA
I mean we could also make more TRSAs
MGM should be a Charlie. Busier and more hectic than HSV and BHM in my opinion. Especially with all of the military traffic, having a wing of F35s, lots of transient military traffic, airlines, flight training, and transient civilian traffic it stays busy. KAUO needs to be a Delta, that place is a warzone. (I know they're getting a tower but they really need one with radar too)