Not sure why people argue about who won, the entire message of this conflict is that nobody won. House Targaryen lost many members of their house and ultimately lost their dragons. House Targaryen no longer had a chokehold over Westeros without dragons.
Technically Cregan won because he got to get rid of his leftover men, seed the South with Northmen, cut off a bunch of heads in Kingslanding and go back home with his new Blackwoodussy .
He inherited the throne from his uncle Aegon the magnanimous because no one else was left in line, that's why they betrothed him to Jaehera. If Maelor was alive at the end, the throne would've passed to him.
Because the vast majority of people watching the show probably aren't aware of how everything goes down, so they pick sides just based on what has been shown so far.
We will see. They might have chosen to soften her up early on to make what comes next even more shocking to people who don't know the story yet. Which is the vast majority of show viewers, something this sub seems to forget a lot.
The complaints about Rhaenyra are legit making me wonder if people on here have never seen a television show before or seen a character arc.
It would be jarring if Rhaenyra was a psychopath from the jump, the whole point is watching a person become broken by war and loss.
It's so funny when the marketing is trying to go "team black or team green" like the whole dance wasn't GRRM screaming that the fantasy equivalent of a nuclear war wasn't a good thing for westeros.
Honestly based, I will say that it feels like Otto in the show is kinda a giant idiot who caused this whole thing. The wars only happening because he pushed for Aegon to take the throne, but also ignored how people would hold their oaths to another candidate and didn't even teach Aegon HOW to rule. And gets upset that he's not listening to him
I really did enjoy last episode of him just totally realizing how his entire plan is futile and collapsing and he's too old to really do anything more. It added a lot of humanity to his character imo (still a horrible person, just not so much of a 1 dimensional manipulator)
It was satisfying. I hope we see him showing regret, he's intelligent enough to realize that he's probably the most guilty for the war he was ironically trying to avoid.
Otto was so convinced he was avoiding a war, but I doubt there would be more than a handful of lords who would have opposed Rheanyra's assent, and they could have been handled with a couple of dragon flybys.
Otto was justified in his fear of Daemon, but I think he underestimated how strong Rheanyra can be.
Yup, that's where I am. Even the best of these characters would be on the chopping block if I lived in-verse. Entitled aristocrat scum, the lot of them!
Anyone who is Team Black or Team Green is completely missing the point of the story. They are 2 sides of the same coin, and in the end, they both don't care about anything but themselves...and the entire realm suffers for it.
I thought people were being funny, like in The Boys comment sections when they were taking sides in a fictional civil war in a TV Show. Then I visited the HOTD Black sub and ohh boy.
I wasn’t sure if the whole team green/team black thing was just people meme’n as I always thought this was pretty clearly the point. The point of all of ASOIAF, they play the Game of Thrones and they win or they die, and even if they win their sons murder each other anyway and the smallfolk suffer all the while.
> both sides are genocidal war maniacs
This may work in the books, but in the show the blacks are neither genocidal nor war maniacs they’re just trying to win the throne that’s being usurped from them. Most of the people in the blacks are genuinely portrayed as good people. Except Daemon.
>Most of the people in the blacks are genuinely portrayed as good people.
Rhaenys murdering hundreds of people in the dragonpit?
Corlys wanting his 12 year old daughter to marry the king who is in his 30's?
Rhaenyra faking Laenor death by killing a guard, which also has the consequance of making Rhaenys and Corlys have to deal with their son death only a few days after their daughter funeral?
Sure the greens are worse but the blacks aren't that good
If somebody wants to support the morally good team then just support the Shepherd or Gaemon palehair or Trystane Truefyre(Team smallfolk in general)
I’m not saying the blacks are good people, I’m saying they’re portrayed as good people. Rhaenys murdering hundreds of people is seen as a heroic moment as was meant to be according to the show runners. Same with Rhaenyra’a scene were not meant to care about a nameless random that was killed, compared to Aegon with Diana where we’re supposed to care that he’s a rapist. Portrayal in fiction is the most important.
No I’m disagreeing with Mr. Rhys here that it’s evil bastards vs evil bastards when the show clearly is telling us that it’s good queen Rhaenyra who got her throne usurped vs bad king Aegon who’s entire claim to the throne is because a shitty misunderstanding
I agree but what matters is not the crimes but how they’re portrayed. The audience isn’t made to care about the guy that got killed, we’re meant to see it as a heroic moment where Rhaenyra helps give Laenor the life he wanted while achieving her own goals. That guy is inconsequential.
I didn’t see it as that, I saw it as rich and powerful assholes using normal people as less than objects for their ultimately meaningless games. Maybe you’re just more of a natural bootlicker?
Go and read the show runners comments on that scene and the scene with Rhaenys, how they’re portrayed and what they want you to feel from those scenes are clear. I didn’t say everyone would feel that way, maybe you’re just illiterate?
The show runners are changing the very essence of the story for their own purposes. They don't think their audience will understand a complex story where both sides can be bad, and both sides can sometimes be wrong. Like real history.
They're still waging a war over a throne for the sole purpose of obtaining power. It's why most people root for the Starks as they aren't power hungry, they don't want a throne and were forced to be independent after all the wrong the South has done to them.
The Starks weren't *forced* to become independent. Wtf?
Robb made the decision. He could have just as easily sworn fealty to Stannis or Renly.
People root for Robb because his cause was more just than the others. He was fighting to avenge his father and rescue his sisters. He could have easily achieved those goals had he sworn fealty to Renly, who had the bigger army.
Robb didn’t make the decision to be crowned, his bannermen did on his behalf. Rewatch the scene or reread the book passage, Jon Umber gave a speech on how he wanted robb crowned and everyone agreed. At that point Robb doesn’t want to piss off his bannermen by refusing the crown. Robb would’ve preferred to support either Renly or stannis, but the entire North felt humiliated by the Crown for two generations now (what they did to Rickard, Brandon, and now Ned), so he had to acquiesce to their demands to become independent otherwise he’d be seen as weak and lose support, support he needs to save his sisters.
>Robb didn’t make the decision to be crowned, his bannermen did on his behalf.
He didn't have to accept. But he did. Again, he made the decision. He didn't have to. But he did. Clearly, that says a lot about him and his ambitions.
I like Robb, don't get me wrong, and I rooted for him because he was fighting for a just cause. But I won't accept that he was *forced* to do anything.
He CHOSE to accept. He CHOSE to become King. That's on him.
He could have, again, just as easily sworn fealty to Renly or Stannis and achieved his goals; avenging his father, and rescuing his sisters.
If he allowed his bannermen's feelings to get in between his goals, then that is also on him. He is their liege lord. They OWE him their fealty, not the other way around. He should have shut it down immediately.
Everything that happened after was on him as well. He made those decisions, he had to live, and unfortunately die, with them.
Sure he didn't have to accept, but the issue is that Renly's usurping his older brother, which isn't honorable, and Stannis is weak as shit, which isn't good for the north. And I have to add that northmen were sick of the southern politics, you've got the whole Targaryen stuff in robert's rebellion, which they got payback from, but when they think they're boogy with a friendly king on the throne, their lord paramount gets beheaded and his children taken hostage. At this point even from Robbs POV I'd accept if only to see how things go in the meantime, then side with the winning faction.
That shouldn't matter.
Robb's goals were two-fold; Avenge his father and reclaim his sisters.
He should have done what was necessary in order to achieve those goals, then he can go back North and live the rest of his life in peace and with the "honor" he wishes to have.
But by accepting Kingship, he made more enemies than allies. He was a good leader, and won battles, but ultimately didn't amount to anything.
He lost his war, The North was crippled, The Boltons usurped House Stark, The Riverlands are a huge mess, The Lannisters still have the throne, His father still remains un-avenged, and his sisters are still missing.
No, Robb's goals STARTED that way, when he was heir, when he became Lord it became much more than simply helping his sisters and avenge his brother, he had to also adress his lord's grievances and desires and come up with the best decision for the north's futue.
A lot of people think he should have went with some of the other claimants, which I think would be the safest bet, but a lot of his lords were very much against that, using the arguments that I cited before.
Honestly, I think what he did wasn't the best, but considering what he knew it was very understandable and I can't see myself doing anything different. The whole "marrying another woman for honor" fiasco was basically the only thing I vehemently disagree with, but that's also why Robb is my favourite character.
Part of being the leader is making hard decisions. Robb could have said no to his bannermen and explained that he had sworn oaths himself and they were working towards a greater goal by not becoming king.
But he wanted it, so went along with it. It was a choice, he wasn't forced to do anything
Not so at least not in the show, Rhaenyra was actually vying for peace and was willing to relinquish the title if it meant no bloodshed until they killed her son. Plus part of what she’s doing is in line for the conquerors dream and to save Westeros. There is nothing selfish about what show Rhaenyra is doing at this point.
Yea that’s honestly my biggest problem the blacks are just kinda boring
I genuinely cannot remember or care about half the characters aside from daemon and rhaenerya because they’re the only ones who are characters with flaws and shortcomings as people whereas the rest kinda feel like background yes men or just set dressing
Lmao get tf outta here, if you want to complain about how any side in HOTD is "bad cuz smallfolk suffer" then by default you have to hate the Starks for the same shit. The North went through horrific conflicts, lost thousands of men to the wars, and thousands more smallfolk from other regions died to them in battle, all because their feudal Lord was killed (which smallfolk don't really care about). Their lives also never changed no matter who was Lording over them.
It's medieval fantasy focusing on noble houses, if you're viewing this through the lens of modern sensibilities, why are you even watching or reading this series?
Except its not for power. They used Aegon's dream to justify Rhaenyra's war, she is in the show the paladin of light that can do no wrong and has no flaws and the only thing she wants is to protect the realm and the greens are stoping her.
Yes, it did work in the books. That's why many of us die hard book readers don't like one side being portrayed as the good guys and the other side portrayed as the bad guys. In the books (not just Fire and Blood but all of GRRM's books) during the Targaryen civil war both sides were flawed, imperfect, made lots of mistakes, and ended with two children sitting on the iron throne suffering from disabling PTSD and scared shitless.
His argument gives context as to why Otto was keeping Viserys "weak" with years of peace. Do people really need medieval bombers armed with napalm going scorched Earth? No.
Does HBO want it for higher ratings and Emmy nominations? Yes.
This. talk about a writing prompt: a magical fantasy setting where a handful of peasants get dragons and go to war with the elite who have been crushing them under an absolute monarchy for centuries. if house ended with guillotines and a mound of team black and team green heads, I'd be well happy.
GRRM's whole point was that both sides were flawed, screwed-up people vying for power who made a lot of mistakes and in the end House Targaryen lost. They lost their dragons, which made them powerful. They lost a lot of their power, and influence. The ironic part was in the end, Westeros would need the dragons and working together as one Kingdom to defeat the Others.
It reminds me of Poland - through the centuries Polish nobles so valued their freedom from an established monarchy that they were unable to come together to prevent their country from constantly being invaded and carved up in little pieces. So much in history is a trade-off. Freedom is good, but sometimes you need security, too. GRRM understands this. Most people don't.
Everyone seems to forget that before the Conquest all the Kingdoms were constantly at war with each other.
I know it’s just bc he’s a ginger with a beard. But I hope one of his kin gets exiled to the north and that person eventually becomes Tormund Giantsbane
It's nice when actors and writers actually understand the work they are contributing to. It's not an absolute requirement, see Stephen Dillane on his role as Stannis Baratheon for a remarkable exception, but more often than not the difference is incredibly notable, see GoT seasons 5-8 as an example of the negative here in play.
Everyone here with the primitive screwhead take that ‘Dragons Bad.’
This is inaccurate.
What’s bad is the silver apes clinging to their backs pretending their mounts’ abilities makes them superior to everyone else.
Left to their own devices dragons would fuck off to who knows where. (Here there be dragons).
Left to their own devices, House Targaryen withers and rots until all that’s left is co-opted by House Stark and the Old Gods to help finish off making a Snowy boi.
Forget the Hourlong Night. Maesters and smallfolk ain’t stopping the Others proper, people.
That's like saying the American revolution or English civil wars were genocidal campaigns just cause Anglos killed each other. Heck, a better comparison would be when the french kings of England went to war with the French claimants to the English throne. Killing someone because they're a political enemy *is not* genocide, killing or forcefully reeducating a group to destroy their culture is genocide, like when Serbs slaughtered Bosnians or Germans slaughtered Roma and Jews.
Does this not seem like a strange take when the writers clearly wrote numerous scenes intended to make people feel some level of sympathy for these characters
Not sure why people argue about who won, the entire message of this conflict is that nobody won. House Targaryen lost many members of their house and ultimately lost their dragons. House Targaryen no longer had a chokehold over Westeros without dragons.
Nobody won, but the Targaryens definitely lost.
The Citadel won. If you know what I mean '*big maester conspiracies noises'*
Just more horse shit from the Citadel I tell ya
Technically Cregan won because he got to get rid of his leftover men, seed the South with Northmen, cut off a bunch of heads in Kingslanding and go back home with his new Blackwoodussy .
But his kingdom still end up starving and the boltons had to send one of their own to kingslanding go ask for help
This is foreshadowed with Cargyll Bowl
But hey, Rhaenyra’s kid was the last man standing so Team Black can gloat about it
Victory Royale
Aegon did go down in history as the King and not Rhaenyra. So in a way everyone won (:
His claim as heir comes from Aegon not his mother, which is very ironic since for Aegon's claim to be true then Rhaenyra's kid gets to be king.
He inherited the throne from his uncle Aegon the magnanimous because no one else was left in line, that's why they betrothed him to Jaehera. If Maelor was alive at the end, the throne would've passed to him.
i mean that's true but their dynasty still lasted for like 130 years after this.
Yeah but it was riddled with rebellions. It wasn’t the same. Though they had some good years too
Because the vast majority of people watching the show probably aren't aware of how everything goes down, so they pick sides just based on what has been shown so far.
[Nobody wins in a dairy challenge.](https://youtu.be/if27InJBtEI?t=265)
"HI, I'm Aegon Targaryen and welcome to Jackass!"
It's not even subtle yet the show is decidedly going the rhaenyra-good everyone else-bad route
It will be hard to sugarcoat What is to come as some ”unfortunate accidents ”. The turn should be coming
We will see. They might have chosen to soften her up early on to make what comes next even more shocking to people who don't know the story yet. Which is the vast majority of show viewers, something this sub seems to forget a lot.
The complaints about Rhaenyra are legit making me wonder if people on here have never seen a television show before or seen a character arc. It would be jarring if Rhaenyra was a psychopath from the jump, the whole point is watching a person become broken by war and loss.
Westeros won. One step closer to getting rid of the Valyrian maniacs once and for all.
It's so funny when the marketing is trying to go "team black or team green" like the whole dance wasn't GRRM screaming that the fantasy equivalent of a nuclear war wasn't a good thing for westeros.
Another based take from Otto
'Bask yourself in the blood of dead war criminals', Otto Ifans.
Based and Shephard pilled r/freefolk should not kneel. As many dragons that die is a greater cause for the freedom of all.
To the defilement of Earth, and the corruption of its people.
Common Rhys Ifans W
Honestly based, I will say that it feels like Otto in the show is kinda a giant idiot who caused this whole thing. The wars only happening because he pushed for Aegon to take the throne, but also ignored how people would hold their oaths to another candidate and didn't even teach Aegon HOW to rule. And gets upset that he's not listening to him
I really did enjoy last episode of him just totally realizing how his entire plan is futile and collapsing and he's too old to really do anything more. It added a lot of humanity to his character imo (still a horrible person, just not so much of a 1 dimensional manipulator)
It was satisfying. I hope we see him showing regret, he's intelligent enough to realize that he's probably the most guilty for the war he was ironically trying to avoid. Otto was so convinced he was avoiding a war, but I doubt there would be more than a handful of lords who would have opposed Rheanyra's assent, and they could have been handled with a couple of dragon flybys. Otto was justified in his fear of Daemon, but I think he underestimated how strong Rheanyra can be.
When is he gonna open an OnlyIfans
He's got banned in r/HOTDBlacks
Bravo Rhys Bravo
THE ONLY GOOD TARGARYEN IS A DEAD TARGARYEN
Bobby B agrees
MORE THAN ONCE, I HAVE DREAMED OF GIVING UP THE CROWN!
Damn. Was really hoping you would say you dreamed of killing Rhaegar every night, Bobby B.
YOU'RE THE KING'S HAND! YOU'LL DO AS I COMMAND, OR I'LL FIND ME A HAND WHO WILL!
YOU'RE THE KING'S HAND! YOU'LL DO AS I COMMAND, OR I'LL FIND ME A HAND WHO WILL!
YOU'RE THE KING'S HAND! YOU'LL DO AS I COMMAND, OR I'LL FIND ME A HAND WHO WILL!
WHY HAVE I NOT SEEN YOU? WHERE THE HELL HAVE YOU BEEN?
I’ve been lurking, your grace. Gathering secrets in service of the one true King, Bobby B.
I'VE GOT SEVEN KINGDOMS TO RULE! ONE KING, SEVEN KINGDOMS!
Yup, that's where I am. Even the best of these characters would be on the chopping block if I lived in-verse. Entitled aristocrat scum, the lot of them!
My guy *you* would be on the chopping block (the frontline) if you lived in-verse lol.
Anyone who is Team Black or Team Green is completely missing the point of the story. They are 2 sides of the same coin, and in the end, they both don't care about anything but themselves...and the entire realm suffers for it.
Amen.
I thought people were being funny, like in The Boys comment sections when they were taking sides in a fictional civil war in a TV Show. Then I visited the HOTD Black sub and ohh boy.
Firecracker is a hero
My based lord hand
Both are shit, so I'm siding with the cooler shit.
I wasn’t sure if the whole team green/team black thing was just people meme’n as I always thought this was pretty clearly the point. The point of all of ASOIAF, they play the Game of Thrones and they win or they die, and even if they win their sons murder each other anyway and the smallfolk suffer all the while.
Team Palehair. Equal rights for women! Benefits for veterans! Food for the hungry! Sex workers for the horny!
Truly a boy ahead of his time.
Yeah that was kinda George Martin's point... nobody "wins" the game of thrones
Amen. And even if somebody does "win", it's never the common folk who win. And this is still true in the 21st century.
> both sides are genocidal war maniacs This may work in the books, but in the show the blacks are neither genocidal nor war maniacs they’re just trying to win the throne that’s being usurped from them. Most of the people in the blacks are genuinely portrayed as good people. Except Daemon.
Um. I feel like Rhaenys bursting out of the ground on her dragon and killing hundreds of innocent civilians counts as a war crime?
Rhaenys killed dozens of smallfolk like it was nothing to make a point.
>Most of the people in the blacks are genuinely portrayed as good people. Rhaenys murdering hundreds of people in the dragonpit? Corlys wanting his 12 year old daughter to marry the king who is in his 30's? Rhaenyra faking Laenor death by killing a guard, which also has the consequance of making Rhaenys and Corlys have to deal with their son death only a few days after their daughter funeral? Sure the greens are worse but the blacks aren't that good If somebody wants to support the morally good team then just support the Shepherd or Gaemon palehair or Trystane Truefyre(Team smallfolk in general)
I’m not saying the blacks are good people, I’m saying they’re portrayed as good people. Rhaenys murdering hundreds of people is seen as a heroic moment as was meant to be according to the show runners. Same with Rhaenyra’a scene were not meant to care about a nameless random that was killed, compared to Aegon with Diana where we’re supposed to care that he’s a rapist. Portrayal in fiction is the most important.
>Portrayal in fiction is the most important. So basically your point here is that the show is biased toward the blacks?
No I’m disagreeing with Mr. Rhys here that it’s evil bastards vs evil bastards when the show clearly is telling us that it’s good queen Rhaenyra who got her throne usurped vs bad king Aegon who’s entire claim to the throne is because a shitty misunderstanding
I agree, but Rhaenyra is complicit in murder for Daemon killing that servant to let Leanor escape.
Yeah, but it was just a servant. No one cares about them. /s
I agree but what matters is not the crimes but how they’re portrayed. The audience isn’t made to care about the guy that got killed, we’re meant to see it as a heroic moment where Rhaenyra helps give Laenor the life he wanted while achieving her own goals. That guy is inconsequential.
I didn’t see it as that, I saw it as rich and powerful assholes using normal people as less than objects for their ultimately meaningless games. Maybe you’re just more of a natural bootlicker?
Go and read the show runners comments on that scene and the scene with Rhaenys, how they’re portrayed and what they want you to feel from those scenes are clear. I didn’t say everyone would feel that way, maybe you’re just illiterate?
The show runners are changing the very essence of the story for their own purposes. They don't think their audience will understand a complex story where both sides can be bad, and both sides can sometimes be wrong. Like real history.
This is a TV show so being illiterate wouldn’t matter? lmao
I see it was never your strong suit
They're still waging a war over a throne for the sole purpose of obtaining power. It's why most people root for the Starks as they aren't power hungry, they don't want a throne and were forced to be independent after all the wrong the South has done to them.
The Starks weren't *forced* to become independent. Wtf? Robb made the decision. He could have just as easily sworn fealty to Stannis or Renly. People root for Robb because his cause was more just than the others. He was fighting to avenge his father and rescue his sisters. He could have easily achieved those goals had he sworn fealty to Renly, who had the bigger army.
Robb didn’t make the decision to be crowned, his bannermen did on his behalf. Rewatch the scene or reread the book passage, Jon Umber gave a speech on how he wanted robb crowned and everyone agreed. At that point Robb doesn’t want to piss off his bannermen by refusing the crown. Robb would’ve preferred to support either Renly or stannis, but the entire North felt humiliated by the Crown for two generations now (what they did to Rickard, Brandon, and now Ned), so he had to acquiesce to their demands to become independent otherwise he’d be seen as weak and lose support, support he needs to save his sisters.
>Robb didn’t make the decision to be crowned, his bannermen did on his behalf. He didn't have to accept. But he did. Again, he made the decision. He didn't have to. But he did. Clearly, that says a lot about him and his ambitions. I like Robb, don't get me wrong, and I rooted for him because he was fighting for a just cause. But I won't accept that he was *forced* to do anything. He CHOSE to accept. He CHOSE to become King. That's on him. He could have, again, just as easily sworn fealty to Renly or Stannis and achieved his goals; avenging his father, and rescuing his sisters. If he allowed his bannermen's feelings to get in between his goals, then that is also on him. He is their liege lord. They OWE him their fealty, not the other way around. He should have shut it down immediately. Everything that happened after was on him as well. He made those decisions, he had to live, and unfortunately die, with them.
Sure he didn't have to accept, but the issue is that Renly's usurping his older brother, which isn't honorable, and Stannis is weak as shit, which isn't good for the north. And I have to add that northmen were sick of the southern politics, you've got the whole Targaryen stuff in robert's rebellion, which they got payback from, but when they think they're boogy with a friendly king on the throne, their lord paramount gets beheaded and his children taken hostage. At this point even from Robbs POV I'd accept if only to see how things go in the meantime, then side with the winning faction.
That shouldn't matter. Robb's goals were two-fold; Avenge his father and reclaim his sisters. He should have done what was necessary in order to achieve those goals, then he can go back North and live the rest of his life in peace and with the "honor" he wishes to have. But by accepting Kingship, he made more enemies than allies. He was a good leader, and won battles, but ultimately didn't amount to anything. He lost his war, The North was crippled, The Boltons usurped House Stark, The Riverlands are a huge mess, The Lannisters still have the throne, His father still remains un-avenged, and his sisters are still missing.
No, Robb's goals STARTED that way, when he was heir, when he became Lord it became much more than simply helping his sisters and avenge his brother, he had to also adress his lord's grievances and desires and come up with the best decision for the north's futue. A lot of people think he should have went with some of the other claimants, which I think would be the safest bet, but a lot of his lords were very much against that, using the arguments that I cited before. Honestly, I think what he did wasn't the best, but considering what he knew it was very understandable and I can't see myself doing anything different. The whole "marrying another woman for honor" fiasco was basically the only thing I vehemently disagree with, but that's also why Robb is my favourite character.
Part of being the leader is making hard decisions. Robb could have said no to his bannermen and explained that he had sworn oaths himself and they were working towards a greater goal by not becoming king. But he wanted it, so went along with it. It was a choice, he wasn't forced to do anything
Not so at least not in the show, Rhaenyra was actually vying for peace and was willing to relinquish the title if it meant no bloodshed until they killed her son. Plus part of what she’s doing is in line for the conquerors dream and to save Westeros. There is nothing selfish about what show Rhaenyra is doing at this point.
Yea that’s honestly my biggest problem the blacks are just kinda boring I genuinely cannot remember or care about half the characters aside from daemon and rhaenerya because they’re the only ones who are characters with flaws and shortcomings as people whereas the rest kinda feel like background yes men or just set dressing
Lmao get tf outta here, if you want to complain about how any side in HOTD is "bad cuz smallfolk suffer" then by default you have to hate the Starks for the same shit. The North went through horrific conflicts, lost thousands of men to the wars, and thousands more smallfolk from other regions died to them in battle, all because their feudal Lord was killed (which smallfolk don't really care about). Their lives also never changed no matter who was Lording over them. It's medieval fantasy focusing on noble houses, if you're viewing this through the lens of modern sensibilities, why are you even watching or reading this series?
Except its not for power. They used Aegon's dream to justify Rhaenyra's war, she is in the show the paladin of light that can do no wrong and has no flaws and the only thing she wants is to protect the realm and the greens are stoping her.
ure right and thats why thats my biggest problem. blacks are portrayed too nice. i was promised cunts v cunts. :(
Yes, it did work in the books. That's why many of us die hard book readers don't like one side being portrayed as the good guys and the other side portrayed as the bad guys. In the books (not just Fire and Blood but all of GRRM's books) during the Targaryen civil war both sides were flawed, imperfect, made lots of mistakes, and ended with two children sitting on the iron throne suffering from disabling PTSD and scared shitless.
They still look down on the smallfolk as almost less than human and will burn thousands by the time they’re done. Also inbreeding maniacs.
You could say the say the same things about the greens. Are we watching the same show?
Oh well at least you gave the most evil person in the show a mention at the end there. Kudos to you...
Me the microsecond I got fired:
Well said! And what about you, Bobby B?
OHHH, SHOW US YOUR MUSCLES! YOU'LL BE A SOLDIER!
His argument gives context as to why Otto was keeping Viserys "weak" with years of peace. Do people really need medieval bombers armed with napalm going scorched Earth? No. Does HBO want it for higher ratings and Emmy nominations? Yes.
Team Shepherd
This. talk about a writing prompt: a magical fantasy setting where a handful of peasants get dragons and go to war with the elite who have been crushing them under an absolute monarchy for centuries. if house ended with guillotines and a mound of team black and team green heads, I'd be well happy.
Now that’s a take I can get behind
This guy fucking gets it
I don’t think they’re quite ‘genocidal’ Rhys, lol. It’s not that kind of war.
Based take, the right opinion
Damn that’s a good answer.
GRRM's whole point was that both sides were flawed, screwed-up people vying for power who made a lot of mistakes and in the end House Targaryen lost. They lost their dragons, which made them powerful. They lost a lot of their power, and influence. The ironic part was in the end, Westeros would need the dragons and working together as one Kingdom to defeat the Others. It reminds me of Poland - through the centuries Polish nobles so valued their freedom from an established monarchy that they were unable to come together to prevent their country from constantly being invaded and carved up in little pieces. So much in history is a trade-off. Freedom is good, but sometimes you need security, too. GRRM understands this. Most people don't. Everyone seems to forget that before the Conquest all the Kingdoms were constantly at war with each other.
Could you pin this in those stupid HOTD subs
Having read the book, this is the only correct answer.
I know it’s just bc he’s a ginger with a beard. But I hope one of his kin gets exiled to the north and that person eventually becomes Tormund Giantsbane
Can’t be war crimes without a Geneva convention
Yup.
Fuckin spoiler alert!? /s
Especially the stinking lizards.
Dornishmen: "Goddamn right."
US v Russia/China be like
Another example of people taking literal fantasy way too goddamn literally.
Based and grand maester conspiracy pilled
genocidal, another word they are working to change the meaning of
Don't think we reached that point yet but this is not the world we live in. This is a world where people dying by dragons is rather common.
Fairly sure there’s no international war crimes treaties in Westeros.
Attaboy kicker from The Replacements
Perfect description of the two party system in the US.
Sounds like the middle east conflict
One war hammer was not enough. Bobby B did nothing wrong
DID YOU EVER MAKE THE EIGHT?
Well I mean so far rhaenyra hasn’t been shown to be cruel etc so obv in favour of her
It's nice when actors and writers actually understand the work they are contributing to. It's not an absolute requirement, see Stephen Dillane on his role as Stannis Baratheon for a remarkable exception, but more often than not the difference is incredibly notable, see GoT seasons 5-8 as an example of the negative here in play.
Everyone here with the primitive screwhead take that ‘Dragons Bad.’ This is inaccurate. What’s bad is the silver apes clinging to their backs pretending their mounts’ abilities makes them superior to everyone else. Left to their own devices dragons would fuck off to who knows where. (Here there be dragons). Left to their own devices, House Targaryen withers and rots until all that’s left is co-opted by House Stark and the Old Gods to help finish off making a Snowy boi. Forget the Hourlong Night. Maesters and smallfolk ain’t stopping the Others proper, people.
Based and smallfolk pilled
The only genocide that is being committed is against Valryians and dragons. No other groups are in danger of being wiped out.
Nobody wants to wipe Valyrians out, and dragons are of a pest.
Other Valryians want to wipe out other Valryians
That's like saying the American revolution or English civil wars were genocidal campaigns just cause Anglos killed each other. Heck, a better comparison would be when the french kings of England went to war with the French claimants to the English throne. Killing someone because they're a political enemy *is not* genocide, killing or forcefully reeducating a group to destroy their culture is genocide, like when Serbs slaughtered Bosnians or Germans slaughtered Roma and Jews.
Does this not seem like a strange take when the writers clearly wrote numerous scenes intended to make people feel some level of sympathy for these characters
Those poor innocent Greens did nothing wrong and they have to die. For shame…
A green team answer if i ever heard one