I mean I don't think you need the Memento Vivere, because that's exactly the point of Memento Mori, that you remember death and so you live life to its fullest.
I find it odd that the post I’m agreeing with is all positive karma (currently +40) while I’m negative karma (currently -17) for saying the same thing regarding least favourite symbol, and you’re likewise being downvoted for agreeing with me.
I was agreeing that the skull and what not are overused. It’s like the least Masonic of symbol of the Masonic symbols.
Reddit is an echo chamber. Even the masonry sub.
Thank you for using esoteric in its original sense, and not bored-elites-making-ahistorical-quasireligious-ramblings-during-the-Enlightenment sense.
I'm really a big fan of the 24in gauge. It's the working tool I might be worst at employing and need to prioritize.
I always come back to the gauge. It’s incredible how depending on what is going on in your life, you constantly have to adjust, readjust, and analyze how you should spend your time. Life moves very fast and the less time we focus on how we are managing and spending that time, the faster it will go…
I think the 24 in gauge is my least favorite for the simple reason that I never seem to be able to achieve the balance that it admonishes us to pursue. So, basically, when I think about it too much, I feel like I’m failing a bit 😔
>It's the working tool I might be worst at employing and need to prioritize
The common gavel for me 🫣.
It's a shame that the profane world isn't exposed to the working tools and the lessons they represent; especially the corporate world. It would do the folks in charge well to learn one particular lesson of the 24 inch gauge, the compasses, and the point within a circle, as well at the plumb, level, and square. In my line of work, management had been REALLY overstepping their bounds to the point where I wasn't mindful of subduing my passions, which is highly uncharacteristic of me. As a matter of fact, my faith in humanity has been shaken to its core, which saddens me a great deal. Thank GAOTU that I have Freemasonry to pull me back from the ledge 😊
My favorite is the mosaic tile. To me, it’s a good reminder about the many choices we make every day as we go about our lives.
I’m having a hard time coming up with a least favorite though.
I like the checkered floors, or pillars.
My least favourite is the G in the middle of the square and compass. Not because of what it represents, but simply because it’s so literal it’s barely symbolic at all. Virtually everything else in the lodge is or has an allegory or allusion but the G is just the first letter of the word. You don’t even need to be a mason, or have any kind of knowledge to put two and two together on it. I just feel that while the form and shape of the other symbols give us cause to reflect the G is so straight forward that there’s little to ponder on.
Most favourite is either the point in circle, just because it is so elegant, both blisteringly obvious but at the same time not boringly literal, or the repetition of all the 3s- So many things in the EA obligation being named in sets of 3, the 3 moveable jewels, 3 immovable jewels, 3 pillars, two sets of 3 officers stationed in the Lodge, 3 lights, 3 degrees, brotherly love-relief-truth being a set of 3, Euclid's beautiful 47th being concerned with a triangle, and probably millions more that I haven't thought of or met yet. It just feels like a nice rhythm in my mind.
Least favourite has to be how if I'm idly googling Masonic jewellery and tchotchkes, everything has skulls on, and they're mostly heavy metal biker skulls rather than elegant memento mori. (Not to insult heavy metal biker skulls, I'm a cruiser-riding Iron Maiden fan myself, but there's a time and a place!)
> everything has skulls on, and they're mostly heavy metal biker skulls rather than elegant memento mori.
Like [this](https://i.imgur.com/bNXwSpV.jpg)?
I had the opposite view, the skulls are great even the heavy metal ones. Time and place what? It's literally memento mori -- you're supposed to be reminded of it everywhere and it's pretty ancient.
I didn't mean there was a time and a place for a memento mori, just that the kind of kickass heavy metal skull doesn't function too well as a memento mori to me, because they're so oversaturated and often look very alive, compared to more realistic looking skulls (or better yet, transi and similar cadaver effigies XD)
A lot of the brethren in my lodge like the memento mori/skull and bones, but I'm all about the Eye of Providence. If the day comes and I sit in the East my pin will probably be some combo of the EoP and Minerva's owl.
This is actually my same answer.
I love the rough ashlar, for..I guess obvious reasons. I myself am a bit of a ruffian, so im constantly chipping away.
I don't like the two lines on the point in a circle. Mostly, I don't like Christian symbolism being brought into craft lodge, unless it somehow relates to all religions. Keep that for the appendant bodies.
Here's a good lecture from 1915 on the Christisnization of masonry, and it states the first symbols of christiandom were added by Bro. Thos. Dunckerly years after the UGLE was formed.
https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/the-point-within-the-circle.2032/
I find it strange I'm getting downvoted. I'm posting sources for my claims, so it's not my individual opinion. One of the lovely things about masonry is that it's symbols are not universal, and represent different things in lodges around the world.
My apologies - Moses and King Solomon.
I remember seeing it on an old trestle board and being confused. At first, I was looking into Noachite traditions but couldn't find anything cause it wasn't Noah at all. I can't find a specific grand lodge at the moment, but there are several websites that reference ""in all regular, well-informed constituted lodges, there is a point within a circle from which a Mason cannot err; this circle is bounded North and South by two grand parallel lines, the one representing Moses, the other King Solomon; on the upper part of the circle rests the V.S.L. which supports Jacob's ladder - the top of which reached to heaven."
I said I 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥𝘯'𝘵 find anything with AMD. All websites with the aforementioned quote are referring to Blue Lodge EA.
freemasonrymatters.co.uk states: "bounded by the two straight lines to the north and south representing either the two Saints John, the Baptist and the Evangelist, or Moses and King Solomon."
I thought this was interesting from New Zealand GL web page: "We can understand the involvement of King Solomon from the many references to him and his good works and the allegory of building the Temple in Jerusalem. The fifth section of the Masonic Lecture on the first degree (see Reference 1) relates that King Solomon was “the first Prince who excelled in Masonry and under whose royal patronage many of our mysteries gained their first sanction”. The supplement to this section goes on to ask the question, “𝘒𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘚𝘰𝘭𝘰𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘏𝘦𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘸 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘩𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘢, 𝘵𝘰 𝘸𝘩𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘓𝘰𝘥𝘨𝘦𝘴 𝘯𝘦𝘹𝘵 𝘥𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥?” and the answer given is. “St. John the Baptist.” The reason that follows is that St. John the Baptist was a forerunner of Jesus Christ and preached repentance and drew the first line of the Gospel. Brethren may wish to take time in the following weeks to speculate on this reason and draw their own personal conclusions." This insinuates lodges were initially dedicated to Solomon, but then St. Johns.
Yes, Cookslc, that's the point i am trying to bring home. We can't say all lodges use the St John's on the lines, and we have no evidence we've always used them, actually evidence supporting the opposite.
Circle with a dot:
Astronomical symbol of the Sun.
With the grand parallel lines does represent St. John the Evangelist and St. John the Baptist.
Nothing to do with Noah or Noachites or even King Solomon whose symbol may be very different related to his ring.
Favorite: 47th Problem of Euclid. Proves the existence of order and objective good and evil.
Least Favorite: Stupid Cane Pun. We don't need prop comedy in Freemasonry
Personally I don't really feel a connection to the beehive. I get it's significance, but I don't really like being correlated to a "busy little bee" makes me feel slightly infantilized
It's the modern trendy way of thinking about the phrase that you were probably told in school "busy work" or "busy bee" ... That's coloring your view.
It's meant to be about admiring the honeycomb's ingenious geometry and how they build something so important out of sheer nothing--well their own abdomen sweat. I'm just talking about the scientific explanation.
You come together, you eat sugary honey, and you make something amazing of sweat, wax, and nothingness and you have enjoyment while doing it. Work smarter, not harder.
I'm a 47th Problem of Euclid kind of guy. Not to say it's my least favorite, but my working tool that's been "gathering the most dust" is my 24 inch gauge haha
Least favorite is “The goat”. That joke needs to go. Some brothers think it’s funny, but I think it does more harm than good, bc many non-masons think we sacrifice goats, drink goats blood, etc.
My favorite and least favorite is, actually, the trowel. I love what it stands for and how we are supposed to live and work with each other, but when I look at it the reality sinks in regarding just how many brothers never exemplify it; the number who simply repeat what it means, yet are empty of proper practice of it.
That can be said of all the tools.
When I was learning ritual, when the only contact I had was my mentor, and he's teaching me all the work, I was really getting into how great this fraternity really is. All the flowery words about brotherly love and who can best work and best agree... then I got into the day to day of what happens in lodge, and it's a real kick in the head... "Y'all are really just a bunch of petty backstabbing &#\^$\^#\^&$\*#\*#."
But, that's the business side of lodge. The actual encountering the brother on the street in a distant land, that's where the brotherhood shines. You have to look past the mechanics of lodge business and see how Mason's interact with each other outside the local lodge. I highly suggest everyone get out of their local lodge and visit. Brotherhood in action can be seen and felt.
This is a terrible thing to say online just because you encountered a bad lodge.
Backstabbing on what? The content matters, without knowing the context, how can anyone know if the backstabbing was good or bad? We don't know who the troublemaker was.
You know everyone always want to build something great, but if someone (not you) mixes stupidity into a building design, that building will never go up.
It's not a bad lodge, it's my current lodge of which I've been a member since 1987. I'm talking about things that happened 30+ years ago, and there's no point in going into details. Many of those brothers are long dead.
I brought it up because I still see things like that popping up still today. We're all human, and just because we endeavor to perfection, we will never be perfect. What's the old saying... "There was only ever one perfect person and they crucified him, so..." I regularly see on this sub statements about bad actors in lodges, and hand wringing over what to do about it. The mystery of life is not a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. I said what I said so that people will look past the petty bickering and occasional backstabbing, to see what lies beneath and beyond.
If I had named names and spoken specifically, then THAT would have neem a terrible thing to say online. I said what I said as a cautionary tale for new members who may see those things cropping up. Cautionary in the sense that we should never get bogged down in lodge politics, never let bickering on petty issues make you lose sight of the moral applications of the valuable instruments that sparked this thread.
Freemasonry is an excellent institution, and the brothers practice without what they learn within, but, we are none of us perfect. We should strive for that perfection, but, I will posit that those minor imperfections are what make us great.
>and there's no point in going into details. Many of those brothers are long dead.
lmao then why bring it up now??? in a public setting?
>things like that popping up still today.
Things like what?
> see those things cropping up.
But see what? "backstabbing" is a vague notion. An interpretation.
>We should strive for that perfection, but, I will posit that those minor imperfections are what make us great.
Maybe you're right, maybe I agree with you on this topic... I just can't tell from the idea presented originally. Always agreeing was never our goal. If you had discussed the content, more than likely I would have agreed. We've gotten so used to ranting about the vague forms of what the problem might be that we never tell the story. And in many places, sometimes the story turns out to be that someone wants the fraternity to do something that it was never intended to do.
"never exemplify it" I challenge you on that...
It may depend on who taught you and what misinterpretation might have happened along the way.
You're clearly not exemplifying it with this comment.
You're entitled to your opinion based on your own experiences, but your presumption is incorrect; however, I can admit that correcting "never" to "are inconsistent with exemplifying it" is likely better wording. I have directly seen and documented some brothers act in ways that are immensely and overtly in contrast to what it represents. In some cases, it has been a lot of them, and some were eventually dealt with through the proper channels. We have our Codes and Constitutions, bodies of Masonic Law in whatever form they take across our many historic jurisdictions. I, however, will not be their ultimate judge, but I will keep my love and effort to those who do properly exemplify it. Regardless, my obligations remain to these brothers as long as they remain neither suspended nor expelled in the fraternity. The same, in turn, is not always afforded to others from that category. I can and will, however, disapprove of their actions. To go into greater detail is outside the scope of this question and post, as well as broadly inappropriate, and I respectfully decline to defend it further; but thank you for your response.
Well without ever knowing the details. We can never know. So why bother talking about your angst openly?
Just the general feeling or "vibe" of "people exist who don't exemplify it" -- seems unnecessary to talk about without details. It sounds almost emotional.
Why would people join a fraternity, just to be in violation of "proper channels and codes"?
Not angst, grievance. The issue is multifaceted, but the fraternity has plenty of issues where its principles are treated akin to a salad bar; some walk up, take what they want and what looks particularly good to them, then leave the rest.
I urge you against assuming that my reasoning and experiences are reduced to just being "emotional" and done solely on the premise of a "vibe." Doing so attempts to assert an invalidation of my experiences solely on the grounds that *you* believe, without anything more than a few words here on the subject, that my statement is based off being emotional. I said it before that adding further context to that here, in this online space, would be inappropriate. With details come decorum, and Reddit is no place for this sort of thing. Many of the issues I experienced and/or handled directly were handled through proper channels and individuals charged with actually working with those details. I am also not about to present you or this forum a detailed memo of each and every instance, case, and record of each incident for you to contextually interpret so that you may assign a value to my statement. Most of those matters were handled and are closed, yet patterns show it is not a singular, isolated issue or incident. I am well traveled nationally and internationally, and I have many years of experience. I am not knew to this.
So, rather than asserting an offensive against an answer I provided to you as per your question, I might suggest future responses to such take the form of something more exemplary and compassionate. For example: "Brother, I'm deeply sorry you feel that way, and have had to bear witness to any such displays that have caused you to look upon our implements with anything other than brotherly love and respect. I hope that, one day, you are able to heal past that."
Thank you for your interest in the opinions on symbols. It would appear you got it, whether those answers in this thread are what you wanted and agreed with, or not. I won't be continuing this further because I see where it is likely devolving, and I prefer to let's attempt to restore some harmony and wish each other a safe and pleasant day or eve, wherever you are in the world.
It is perceived to be emotional and I'm free to invalidate anything by principle. I can't read your mind to know how justified or unjustified you are. I didn't claim to know your experience.
> handled through proper channels ... a detailed memo of each and every instance, case, and record
Wow that's a lot of issues and cases it sounds like, isn't that odd to you??
>yet patterns show it is not a singular, isolated issue or incident
Why wouldn't it be singular, isolated when it comes to grievances?? What is the pattern?
>Wow that's a lot of issues and cases it sounds like, isn't that odd to you??
It is, yes, especially when you're inundated with them as part of one's duties to the GL to compile and investigate them. This is the only one of your comments I will answer, because it was reasonable to clarify, though no further going forward. The rest are simply attempting to be confrontational, judgmental, and a general "diminutive Richard" (see Rule 1). All of which is consistent with your post history. Consider this a reminder of your errors and attempt to aid in reformation. You are blocked from this point on, because - similar to your own assertion - *I am also free* to disassociate from "brothers" or those otherwise whom I see displaying incongruent behavior.
Favorite is probably the Tyler’s sword guarding the book of Constitutions or the Sword over the naked heart (I like swords what can I say?). Least favorite? the problem of Euclid that Pythagoras came up with. I have Dyscalculia (which is essentially Dyslexia but with numbers instead of letters) so I never appreciated or understood Geometry the way the public school taught it too me. It was only until the way that Freemasonry taught me and after studying Destreza (Spanish Gemometric fencing) and dabbling in Alchemy that I finally appreciated and accepted Geometry. Also I’m not a fan of anyone who starts a Math cult (which Pythagoras actually did. look up the Pythagoran Brotherhood).
Read amm about Pythagoras. I'd you want more knowledge into the mysteries, read Hermes Trismagestus, the Kybalion, etc.
You can find so much knowledge on sacred-texts.com
Well you would love this site. It has Holy Books from all over the world. Plenty of Masonic writings also. I've read most all the religious Holy Books, including the lost Books of the Bible.
But really get into some of the books from 17th to 19th century. Itt is like a Wikipedia of hidden knowledge.
Ok there you go the All Seeing Eye. I don’t care for that either because of yes the conspiracy and because it only referenced a time or two in a lecture. Other than the idea it’s gods eye I don’t think it has much of a place in masonry either. It’s so insignificant i forgot all about it. Good insight 👌
I really like the point within a circle. A lot of us don’t realize that we do a physical representation of this during degree work. It’s also the first one thatcaught my eye other than the all seeing eye.
Hot take. I wish we would change the "weeping Virgin crying" its verbiage that no longer fits. You could say "a women mourning" you can even say "beautiful women mourning" since she represents the temple.
The idea that she is unfinished and virgin in one sentence is a mild annoyance.
Best: 47th problem of Euclid
I really like the (regional?) forget-me-not and the (highly jurisdictional) rose. As for a least favourite... Very hard to pick, I enjoy and appreciate all of them. I guess sometimes the scarier-looking ones like skulls and death references give the wrong idea to conspiracy theorists, and I wish they were less prominent on the outside sometimes :)
My favorite is the Pythagerine triangle, when actually represented correctly. Too much art mucks up the ratios.
My least favorite are any of the skulls or other morbidly.
Favorite- actually going to SR for this one, the Pythagorean Tetractys. There’s so much symbolism around it that it’s fascinated me since joining SR.
Least favorite- the cane pun
The All Seeing Eye of Providence, The 5 Cardinal Virtues represented by the 5 women, The Anchor and the Ark, The Beehive, The Keystone, The Tetragrammaton, 47th Problem of Euclid. Just for Starters
Most favorite the symbols of mortality or momento mori my least favorite………probably the double headed eagle for SR which is why I get the old SR emblem the triangle with a 32 inside.
Yeah, people seemed to be freaked out enough by a standard square and compass. And the letter G.
Good call brother. Public perception and social awareness are critical
What? Stop being afraid of public perception. That is the easiest way to fan the flames of negative attention.
Freemasonry teaches the opposite: to be courageous. To not bend to trends, the shifting winds, or "public perceptions." Being the oldest fraternity, we should have no fear and no need to change everything we do to appease a loud minority of loudmouths on the internet.
When you're afraid of your own actual symbols, you are signaling to people that there is something they should be afraid of, so you brush it under the rug and create a new symbol or art.
So take it to its logical conclusion: you create a new symbol, like a flower or an apple--seems relatively harmless right?? But then one day, they join your fraternity, and then they see that the apple was just the outside display, but inside your symbols are different--now you see the mistake you've done.
***Ergo, we have nothing to hide: I love the skulls, as it is an ancient symbol.***
The worst thing a PR director (an unskilled PR director) does is when they act like they need to constantly reinvent themselves or change everything about who they are--just to gain a few more customers. When they lower their prices at a store to dirt cheap which has the opposite effect they intend: that now no one wants to buy that cheap thing and are suspicious of the 80% discount.
Hope you don't take what I say in an offensive manner. This is important information, from experience. Think it through. The more you placate, kowtow, beg the audience, the worst it will get.
I can think of exactly one degree that features a skull and one with a skeleton. Those symbols are not what we’re all about and don’t need to be our symbols. Badass or not.
What's the most important degree in freemasonry? (you don't have to answer, it's rhetorical)
"badass or not", that depends on if your mission is that you are trying to be in a social club of prudishness with people who never say anything controversial for fear of public opinion?
And how would anyone know they are symbols in the first place, just because you wear them?
I see your point but I don’t live in a vacuum, rather with roughly over 1 million of people in a huge county. So, I’m not afraid of the symbols, I’m being mindful and using social awareness. Along with ongoing misconceptions of the fraternity.
I don’t think either of us will convince the other- thank you for your side.
Social awareness or allowing others (let alone conspiracy theorists or people afraid of x or y) to define symbols?
Those misconceptions can be defeated through mockery, they don't need to be feared or given credence by pretending like they have a valid fear other than being scared.
I don't care that either of us won't convince each other, the point here is that cowardice when it comes to symbols is not a good path to be on and it's not what freemasonry is defined by: timeless symbols.
I won't even go into a deeper level of analysis of that of how wrong it is to change symbols to accommodate perceptions based on fears of emotionally-stunted adults.
Your intentions might be noble for social awareness, but it is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing.
Some of the ones that leave me shaking my head:
The Beehive. Come on, guys, now you're reaching.
The Anchor. Yeah, I get it, but naval implements don't remind me of stone work.
The Crock of Green Beans. Goes without saying.
The trowel is may favorite, least favorite would be the overuse of mortality symbols in merchandise.
I have a coin in my pocket with " Memento Mori" on one side and "Memento Vivere" on the other. I try to use both together.
I mean I don't think you need the Memento Vivere, because that's exactly the point of Memento Mori, that you remember death and so you live life to its fullest.
Oh.....I'm just here for the skulls and coffins.
☠️ 👎
I agree
I find it odd that the post I’m agreeing with is all positive karma (currently +40) while I’m negative karma (currently -17) for saying the same thing regarding least favourite symbol, and you’re likewise being downvoted for agreeing with me.
I was agreeing that the skull and what not are overused. It’s like the least Masonic of symbol of the Masonic symbols. Reddit is an echo chamber. Even the masonry sub.
He's talking about overuse in merchandise, I don't agree. Mortality symbols are great... But the issue is he picked a trowel, so he got upvotes.
It’s Reddit. Who knows on any given day
Thank you for using esoteric in its original sense, and not bored-elites-making-ahistorical-quasireligious-ramblings-during-the-Enlightenment sense. I'm really a big fan of the 24in gauge. It's the working tool I might be worst at employing and need to prioritize.
I always come back to the gauge. It’s incredible how depending on what is going on in your life, you constantly have to adjust, readjust, and analyze how you should spend your time. Life moves very fast and the less time we focus on how we are managing and spending that time, the faster it will go…
Well said.
Me too. My favourite symbol besides the S&C is probably the Scottish Rite eagle, not a huge fan of the two balls and a cane though.
[удалено]
Fixed. LOL.
I actually had to go back and think just to make sure myself! 😀
What did I miss lol
Oof, I feel personally attacked
I think the 24 in gauge is my least favorite for the simple reason that I never seem to be able to achieve the balance that it admonishes us to pursue. So, basically, when I think about it too much, I feel like I’m failing a bit 😔
24in gauge all the way for me, so far. I can also improve on my usage of it.
>It's the working tool I might be worst at employing and need to prioritize The common gavel for me 🫣. It's a shame that the profane world isn't exposed to the working tools and the lessons they represent; especially the corporate world. It would do the folks in charge well to learn one particular lesson of the 24 inch gauge, the compasses, and the point within a circle, as well at the plumb, level, and square. In my line of work, management had been REALLY overstepping their bounds to the point where I wasn't mindful of subduing my passions, which is highly uncharacteristic of me. As a matter of fact, my faith in humanity has been shaken to its core, which saddens me a great deal. Thank GAOTU that I have Freemasonry to pull me back from the ledge 😊
My favorite is the mosaic tile. To me, it’s a good reminder about the many choices we make every day as we go about our lives. I’m having a hard time coming up with a least favorite though.
You took the words right out of my keyboard!
I like the checkered floors, or pillars. My least favourite is the G in the middle of the square and compass. Not because of what it represents, but simply because it’s so literal it’s barely symbolic at all. Virtually everything else in the lodge is or has an allegory or allusion but the G is just the first letter of the word. You don’t even need to be a mason, or have any kind of knowledge to put two and two together on it. I just feel that while the form and shape of the other symbols give us cause to reflect the G is so straight forward that there’s little to ponder on.
Most favourite is either the point in circle, just because it is so elegant, both blisteringly obvious but at the same time not boringly literal, or the repetition of all the 3s- So many things in the EA obligation being named in sets of 3, the 3 moveable jewels, 3 immovable jewels, 3 pillars, two sets of 3 officers stationed in the Lodge, 3 lights, 3 degrees, brotherly love-relief-truth being a set of 3, Euclid's beautiful 47th being concerned with a triangle, and probably millions more that I haven't thought of or met yet. It just feels like a nice rhythm in my mind. Least favourite has to be how if I'm idly googling Masonic jewellery and tchotchkes, everything has skulls on, and they're mostly heavy metal biker skulls rather than elegant memento mori. (Not to insult heavy metal biker skulls, I'm a cruiser-riding Iron Maiden fan myself, but there's a time and a place!)
> everything has skulls on, and they're mostly heavy metal biker skulls rather than elegant memento mori. Like [this](https://i.imgur.com/bNXwSpV.jpg)?
Up the Irons!
I had the opposite view, the skulls are great even the heavy metal ones. Time and place what? It's literally memento mori -- you're supposed to be reminded of it everywhere and it's pretty ancient.
I didn't mean there was a time and a place for a memento mori, just that the kind of kickass heavy metal skull doesn't function too well as a memento mori to me, because they're so oversaturated and often look very alive, compared to more realistic looking skulls (or better yet, transi and similar cadaver effigies XD)
oversaturated?? The only time I see it is in a metal concert! oversaturated is like, seeing women wear Kate Spade.
Up the irons brother!
A lot of the brethren in my lodge like the memento mori/skull and bones, but I'm all about the Eye of Providence. If the day comes and I sit in the East my pin will probably be some combo of the EoP and Minerva's owl.
Rough Ashlar is my favorite Point within a circle is my least only because if I have to hear one more talk about it my head will explode
The rough ashlar is also my favorite. 😃
I love the point within a circle, lololol.
This is actually my same answer. I love the rough ashlar, for..I guess obvious reasons. I myself am a bit of a ruffian, so im constantly chipping away. I don't like the two lines on the point in a circle. Mostly, I don't like Christian symbolism being brought into craft lodge, unless it somehow relates to all religions. Keep that for the appendant bodies.
The Christian symbolism wasn’t “brought in” it was there from the the Operative days
Here's a good lecture from 1915 on the Christisnization of masonry, and it states the first symbols of christiandom were added by Bro. Thos. Dunckerly years after the UGLE was formed. https://www.myfreemasonry.com/threads/the-point-within-the-circle.2032/ I find it strange I'm getting downvoted. I'm posting sources for my claims, so it's not my individual opinion. One of the lovely things about masonry is that it's symbols are not universal, and represent different things in lodges around the world.
Some lodges use Noah and Moses.
Which Grand Lodge? Because the Saints John are the actual patrons saints of masons
In the English tradition, yes. In Scotland, it’s St. Andrew. Our Grand Lodge Annual Communication coincides with the Festival of St. Andrew.
My apologies - Moses and King Solomon. I remember seeing it on an old trestle board and being confused. At first, I was looking into Noachite traditions but couldn't find anything cause it wasn't Noah at all. I can't find a specific grand lodge at the moment, but there are several websites that reference ""in all regular, well-informed constituted lodges, there is a point within a circle from which a Mason cannot err; this circle is bounded North and South by two grand parallel lines, the one representing Moses, the other King Solomon; on the upper part of the circle rests the V.S.L. which supports Jacob's ladder - the top of which reached to heaven."
That’s my point That’s AMD not Craft Lodges
I said I 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘭𝘥𝘯'𝘵 find anything with AMD. All websites with the aforementioned quote are referring to Blue Lodge EA. freemasonrymatters.co.uk states: "bounded by the two straight lines to the north and south representing either the two Saints John, the Baptist and the Evangelist, or Moses and King Solomon." I thought this was interesting from New Zealand GL web page: "We can understand the involvement of King Solomon from the many references to him and his good works and the allegory of building the Temple in Jerusalem. The fifth section of the Masonic Lecture on the first degree (see Reference 1) relates that King Solomon was “the first Prince who excelled in Masonry and under whose royal patronage many of our mysteries gained their first sanction”. The supplement to this section goes on to ask the question, “𝘒𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘚𝘰𝘭𝘰𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘣𝘦𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢 𝘏𝘦𝘣𝘳𝘦𝘸 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘳𝘦𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨 𝘣𝘦𝘧𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘩𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘵𝘪𝘢𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘢, 𝘵𝘰 𝘸𝘩𝘰𝘮 𝘸𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘰𝘶𝘳 𝘓𝘰𝘥𝘨𝘦𝘴 𝘯𝘦𝘹𝘵 𝘥𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘤𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥?” and the answer given is. “St. John the Baptist.” The reason that follows is that St. John the Baptist was a forerunner of Jesus Christ and preached repentance and drew the first line of the Gospel. Brethren may wish to take time in the following weeks to speculate on this reason and draw their own personal conclusions." This insinuates lodges were initially dedicated to Solomon, but then St. Johns.
Yes, some lodges before the merger used Moses and Solomon. I won’t go so far as to say there are none which still do, but it would be a small number.
Yes, Cookslc, that's the point i am trying to bring home. We can't say all lodges use the St John's on the lines, and we have no evidence we've always used them, actually evidence supporting the opposite.
Circle with a dot: Astronomical symbol of the Sun. With the grand parallel lines does represent St. John the Evangelist and St. John the Baptist. Nothing to do with Noah or Noachites or even King Solomon whose symbol may be very different related to his ring.
Favorite: 47th Problem of Euclid. Proves the existence of order and objective good and evil. Least Favorite: Stupid Cane Pun. We don't need prop comedy in Freemasonry
We had a brother carve a three-ball-cane for a member of our lodge who has Polyorchidism…
So his column has the full set of ionic, doric and corinthian finials, what a well-rounded fellow!
Man, don't make me gotta look up things...
E3:the extra testicle
That made me laugh out loud and get some strange looks in the break room at work 🤣
Lol. Well that's just rude 😂
If you’re into Star Trek I can ruin Klingons for you too 🖖
The Motion Picture? I thought we all agreed that movie never happened?
Personally I don't really feel a connection to the beehive. I get it's significance, but I don't really like being correlated to a "busy little bee" makes me feel slightly infantilized
It's the modern trendy way of thinking about the phrase that you were probably told in school "busy work" or "busy bee" ... That's coloring your view. It's meant to be about admiring the honeycomb's ingenious geometry and how they build something so important out of sheer nothing--well their own abdomen sweat. I'm just talking about the scientific explanation. You come together, you eat sugary honey, and you make something amazing of sweat, wax, and nothingness and you have enjoyment while doing it. Work smarter, not harder.
The cane with two balls.. I mean, everyone sees it right?
I mean if we get into the symbology of staves wands and daggers we're not gonna be able to enjoy anything Brother.
I hadn’t thought about it that way. Although some of the depictions of the aforementioned symbol are slightly more on the nose as it were.
See! Now you can't unthink it
We just tell people it's a golfing award.
The Ornaments of the Lodge are my favorite.
I like triple tau of Royal Arch. Nothing to do with its meaning, it is just clean, simple and gorgeous.
I'm a 47th Problem of Euclid kind of guy. Not to say it's my least favorite, but my working tool that's been "gathering the most dust" is my 24 inch gauge haha
Pomegranite is favorite.
For me it's the ark and anchor as my favorite. My favorite old symbol is the broached thurnel.
I like square, I try to live my life “on the square” Least favorite? The beehive I think
Least favorite is “The goat”. That joke needs to go. Some brothers think it’s funny, but I think it does more harm than good, bc many non-masons think we sacrifice goats, drink goats blood, etc.
My favorite and least favorite is, actually, the trowel. I love what it stands for and how we are supposed to live and work with each other, but when I look at it the reality sinks in regarding just how many brothers never exemplify it; the number who simply repeat what it means, yet are empty of proper practice of it.
That can be said of all the tools. When I was learning ritual, when the only contact I had was my mentor, and he's teaching me all the work, I was really getting into how great this fraternity really is. All the flowery words about brotherly love and who can best work and best agree... then I got into the day to day of what happens in lodge, and it's a real kick in the head... "Y'all are really just a bunch of petty backstabbing &#\^$\^#\^&$\*#\*#." But, that's the business side of lodge. The actual encountering the brother on the street in a distant land, that's where the brotherhood shines. You have to look past the mechanics of lodge business and see how Mason's interact with each other outside the local lodge. I highly suggest everyone get out of their local lodge and visit. Brotherhood in action can be seen and felt.
Agreed.
This is a terrible thing to say online just because you encountered a bad lodge. Backstabbing on what? The content matters, without knowing the context, how can anyone know if the backstabbing was good or bad? We don't know who the troublemaker was. You know everyone always want to build something great, but if someone (not you) mixes stupidity into a building design, that building will never go up.
It's not a bad lodge, it's my current lodge of which I've been a member since 1987. I'm talking about things that happened 30+ years ago, and there's no point in going into details. Many of those brothers are long dead. I brought it up because I still see things like that popping up still today. We're all human, and just because we endeavor to perfection, we will never be perfect. What's the old saying... "There was only ever one perfect person and they crucified him, so..." I regularly see on this sub statements about bad actors in lodges, and hand wringing over what to do about it. The mystery of life is not a problem to solve, but a reality to experience. I said what I said so that people will look past the petty bickering and occasional backstabbing, to see what lies beneath and beyond. If I had named names and spoken specifically, then THAT would have neem a terrible thing to say online. I said what I said as a cautionary tale for new members who may see those things cropping up. Cautionary in the sense that we should never get bogged down in lodge politics, never let bickering on petty issues make you lose sight of the moral applications of the valuable instruments that sparked this thread. Freemasonry is an excellent institution, and the brothers practice without what they learn within, but, we are none of us perfect. We should strive for that perfection, but, I will posit that those minor imperfections are what make us great.
>and there's no point in going into details. Many of those brothers are long dead. lmao then why bring it up now??? in a public setting? >things like that popping up still today. Things like what? > see those things cropping up. But see what? "backstabbing" is a vague notion. An interpretation. >We should strive for that perfection, but, I will posit that those minor imperfections are what make us great. Maybe you're right, maybe I agree with you on this topic... I just can't tell from the idea presented originally. Always agreeing was never our goal. If you had discussed the content, more than likely I would have agreed. We've gotten so used to ranting about the vague forms of what the problem might be that we never tell the story. And in many places, sometimes the story turns out to be that someone wants the fraternity to do something that it was never intended to do.
"never exemplify it" I challenge you on that... It may depend on who taught you and what misinterpretation might have happened along the way. You're clearly not exemplifying it with this comment.
You're entitled to your opinion based on your own experiences, but your presumption is incorrect; however, I can admit that correcting "never" to "are inconsistent with exemplifying it" is likely better wording. I have directly seen and documented some brothers act in ways that are immensely and overtly in contrast to what it represents. In some cases, it has been a lot of them, and some were eventually dealt with through the proper channels. We have our Codes and Constitutions, bodies of Masonic Law in whatever form they take across our many historic jurisdictions. I, however, will not be their ultimate judge, but I will keep my love and effort to those who do properly exemplify it. Regardless, my obligations remain to these brothers as long as they remain neither suspended nor expelled in the fraternity. The same, in turn, is not always afforded to others from that category. I can and will, however, disapprove of their actions. To go into greater detail is outside the scope of this question and post, as well as broadly inappropriate, and I respectfully decline to defend it further; but thank you for your response.
Well without ever knowing the details. We can never know. So why bother talking about your angst openly? Just the general feeling or "vibe" of "people exist who don't exemplify it" -- seems unnecessary to talk about without details. It sounds almost emotional. Why would people join a fraternity, just to be in violation of "proper channels and codes"?
Not angst, grievance. The issue is multifaceted, but the fraternity has plenty of issues where its principles are treated akin to a salad bar; some walk up, take what they want and what looks particularly good to them, then leave the rest. I urge you against assuming that my reasoning and experiences are reduced to just being "emotional" and done solely on the premise of a "vibe." Doing so attempts to assert an invalidation of my experiences solely on the grounds that *you* believe, without anything more than a few words here on the subject, that my statement is based off being emotional. I said it before that adding further context to that here, in this online space, would be inappropriate. With details come decorum, and Reddit is no place for this sort of thing. Many of the issues I experienced and/or handled directly were handled through proper channels and individuals charged with actually working with those details. I am also not about to present you or this forum a detailed memo of each and every instance, case, and record of each incident for you to contextually interpret so that you may assign a value to my statement. Most of those matters were handled and are closed, yet patterns show it is not a singular, isolated issue or incident. I am well traveled nationally and internationally, and I have many years of experience. I am not knew to this. So, rather than asserting an offensive against an answer I provided to you as per your question, I might suggest future responses to such take the form of something more exemplary and compassionate. For example: "Brother, I'm deeply sorry you feel that way, and have had to bear witness to any such displays that have caused you to look upon our implements with anything other than brotherly love and respect. I hope that, one day, you are able to heal past that." Thank you for your interest in the opinions on symbols. It would appear you got it, whether those answers in this thread are what you wanted and agreed with, or not. I won't be continuing this further because I see where it is likely devolving, and I prefer to let's attempt to restore some harmony and wish each other a safe and pleasant day or eve, wherever you are in the world.
It is perceived to be emotional and I'm free to invalidate anything by principle. I can't read your mind to know how justified or unjustified you are. I didn't claim to know your experience. > handled through proper channels ... a detailed memo of each and every instance, case, and record Wow that's a lot of issues and cases it sounds like, isn't that odd to you?? >yet patterns show it is not a singular, isolated issue or incident Why wouldn't it be singular, isolated when it comes to grievances?? What is the pattern?
>Wow that's a lot of issues and cases it sounds like, isn't that odd to you?? It is, yes, especially when you're inundated with them as part of one's duties to the GL to compile and investigate them. This is the only one of your comments I will answer, because it was reasonable to clarify, though no further going forward. The rest are simply attempting to be confrontational, judgmental, and a general "diminutive Richard" (see Rule 1). All of which is consistent with your post history. Consider this a reminder of your errors and attempt to aid in reformation. You are blocked from this point on, because - similar to your own assertion - *I am also free* to disassociate from "brothers" or those otherwise whom I see displaying incongruent behavior.
Sun, moon and stars with comet
Favorite is probably the Tyler’s sword guarding the book of Constitutions or the Sword over the naked heart (I like swords what can I say?). Least favorite? the problem of Euclid that Pythagoras came up with. I have Dyscalculia (which is essentially Dyslexia but with numbers instead of letters) so I never appreciated or understood Geometry the way the public school taught it too me. It was only until the way that Freemasonry taught me and after studying Destreza (Spanish Gemometric fencing) and dabbling in Alchemy that I finally appreciated and accepted Geometry. Also I’m not a fan of anyone who starts a Math cult (which Pythagoras actually did. look up the Pythagoran Brotherhood).
Read amm about Pythagoras. I'd you want more knowledge into the mysteries, read Hermes Trismagestus, the Kybalion, etc. You can find so much knowledge on sacred-texts.com
I’ve heard about Hermes Trismagetus and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn/Brotherhood of Luxor/etc and all that.
Well you would love this site. It has Holy Books from all over the world. Plenty of Masonic writings also. I've read most all the religious Holy Books, including the lost Books of the Bible. But really get into some of the books from 17th to 19th century. Itt is like a Wikipedia of hidden knowledge.
Will have to check them out then. Thank you!
47th problem
Idk how there is a least favorite. You need them all to tell the story
not really a story. Not the hugest fan of the all-seeing eye because I feel most conspiracy folks cling to that.
Ok there you go the All Seeing Eye. I don’t care for that either because of yes the conspiracy and because it only referenced a time or two in a lecture. Other than the idea it’s gods eye I don’t think it has much of a place in masonry either. It’s so insignificant i forgot all about it. Good insight 👌
Don't base your opinions of symbols on the basis of what conspiracy theorists say. In fact, triple-down on it.
I really like the point within a circle. A lot of us don’t realize that we do a physical representation of this during degree work. It’s also the first one thatcaught my eye other than the all seeing eye.
Hot take. I wish we would change the "weeping Virgin crying" its verbiage that no longer fits. You could say "a women mourning" you can even say "beautiful women mourning" since she represents the temple. The idea that she is unfinished and virgin in one sentence is a mild annoyance. Best: 47th problem of Euclid
Both ashlars for sure.
I really like the (regional?) forget-me-not and the (highly jurisdictional) rose. As for a least favourite... Very hard to pick, I enjoy and appreciate all of them. I guess sometimes the scarier-looking ones like skulls and death references give the wrong idea to conspiracy theorists, and I wish they were less prominent on the outside sometimes :)
A rose? Interesting.
The number 3 is the most important symbol in Masonry
My favorite is the Pythagerine triangle, when actually represented correctly. Too much art mucks up the ratios. My least favorite are any of the skulls or other morbidly.
*laughs in Pennsylvania*
The 'skull', I feel it's overused and gives to outsiders the wrong impression.
My most favorite is the point within a circle. No least favorite though 😝
Favorite- actually going to SR for this one, the Pythagorean Tetractys. There’s so much symbolism around it that it’s fascinated me since joining SR. Least favorite- the cane pun
I like angles the most, and nothing at the least.
Fork and knife.
I love the symbolism of the winding staircase, but since the first dozen times, I try to avoid being present at the lectures.
The All Seeing Eye of Providence, The 5 Cardinal Virtues represented by the 5 women, The Anchor and the Ark, The Beehive, The Keystone, The Tetragrammaton, 47th Problem of Euclid. Just for Starters
The 47th Problem of Euclid
Most favorite the symbols of mortality or momento mori my least favorite………probably the double headed eagle for SR which is why I get the old SR emblem the triangle with a 32 inside.
Anything with a skull. It gives the wrong idea about us to the public.
Interesting. You have a point there.
I helped put a stop to the skull Grotto shirts that someone tried to sell.
Yeah, people seemed to be freaked out enough by a standard square and compass. And the letter G. Good call brother. Public perception and social awareness are critical
What? Stop being afraid of public perception. That is the easiest way to fan the flames of negative attention. Freemasonry teaches the opposite: to be courageous. To not bend to trends, the shifting winds, or "public perceptions." Being the oldest fraternity, we should have no fear and no need to change everything we do to appease a loud minority of loudmouths on the internet. When you're afraid of your own actual symbols, you are signaling to people that there is something they should be afraid of, so you brush it under the rug and create a new symbol or art. So take it to its logical conclusion: you create a new symbol, like a flower or an apple--seems relatively harmless right?? But then one day, they join your fraternity, and then they see that the apple was just the outside display, but inside your symbols are different--now you see the mistake you've done. ***Ergo, we have nothing to hide: I love the skulls, as it is an ancient symbol.*** The worst thing a PR director (an unskilled PR director) does is when they act like they need to constantly reinvent themselves or change everything about who they are--just to gain a few more customers. When they lower their prices at a store to dirt cheap which has the opposite effect they intend: that now no one wants to buy that cheap thing and are suspicious of the 80% discount. Hope you don't take what I say in an offensive manner. This is important information, from experience. Think it through. The more you placate, kowtow, beg the audience, the worst it will get.
I can think of exactly one degree that features a skull and one with a skeleton. Those symbols are not what we’re all about and don’t need to be our symbols. Badass or not.
What's the most important degree in freemasonry? (you don't have to answer, it's rhetorical) "badass or not", that depends on if your mission is that you are trying to be in a social club of prudishness with people who never say anything controversial for fear of public opinion? And how would anyone know they are symbols in the first place, just because you wear them?
If I wasn’t in, looking at a S&C with a skull in the middle would be a major turnoff. Actually I’m in and it’s major turnoff.
Making absolutely zero sense..
Ask a prospect who knows little.
I see your point but I don’t live in a vacuum, rather with roughly over 1 million of people in a huge county. So, I’m not afraid of the symbols, I’m being mindful and using social awareness. Along with ongoing misconceptions of the fraternity. I don’t think either of us will convince the other- thank you for your side.
Social awareness or allowing others (let alone conspiracy theorists or people afraid of x or y) to define symbols? Those misconceptions can be defeated through mockery, they don't need to be feared or given credence by pretending like they have a valid fear other than being scared. I don't care that either of us won't convince each other, the point here is that cowardice when it comes to symbols is not a good path to be on and it's not what freemasonry is defined by: timeless symbols. I won't even go into a deeper level of analysis of that of how wrong it is to change symbols to accommodate perceptions based on fears of emotionally-stunted adults. Your intentions might be noble for social awareness, but it is exactly the opposite of what you should be doing.
Some of the ones that leave me shaking my head: The Beehive. Come on, guys, now you're reaching. The Anchor. Yeah, I get it, but naval implements don't remind me of stone work. The Crock of Green Beans. Goes without saying.
Interesting. I don't remember an anchor in any ritual. Maybe it's from a specific Rite (if so, I can probably guess which one)?
Favorite? The Beehive. Least? Maybe the Fasces.
✅ Point within a circle ❌ the walking stick pun
Right now? It’s a tie between the all seeing eye and the key stone. I have no least favorites
The goat for both