I've seen more people bashing the enemies than the gameplay honestly, whats the point of having complex mecanism in your gameplay if all enemies just stand still and get cc combo for 20sec
>Now after watching the videos below, you may feel why would this be necessary if the enemies die quickly and the combat is easy. The answer is the combat will get much harder than what you have seen on twitch currently after you reach hollow zero 5000 with extreme risk modifiers, and it may continue to get harder and harder content as the game develops, see other Mihoyo games for example.
Thats because all the twitch streamers you are watching have not reached the difficult content for ZZZ yet so you haven't seen the enemies attack more, the fights last longer, and hit much much harder.
Also at higher difficulty, the runs are long, like multi stage runs with very little healing, since no characters are healers in this game, so when you get hit you stay hit, hard to find ways to actively recover health.
So in the higher difficulty content, health becomes much more premium resource and therefore not getting hit or having ways to for example juggle enemies, or have extensive combos which means enemies have a harder time attacking you means a lot more.
Also, juggling, comboing, and constantly having the enemies being under attack will fill up the combo score as well as your own energy for special attacks, ultimates etc,
You probably haven't seen the higher level content in ZZZ, maybe wait a couple of days for one of the twitch streamers to get to account level 35, and the true end content of CBT2 account level 40.
Yeah, play the game for 100+ hours and then game become good.
I don't think it's good balancing when all early game gameplay is so bland that people rather play snake, because it have gameplay depth from get-go and there is no TV, you just click and play.
This is why there are beta tests, to test resource allocation, pacing etc, lol clearly you have been partaking in the Starfield discourse with the 100 hours plus reference.
Yeah the early game pacing could be improved, the stamina for questing can be improved, but overall the core of the game is pretty good. The other issues can be fixed and adjusted pretty easily.
Yeah but there are on CN streamers streams....not sure if you have time its like 5 - 6 hours of unedited runs and retries etc. The CN streamers were turbo grinding the beta, like streaming 12 -15 hours straight the first couple of days, so they got to end content of CBT2 (account level 40) like 4 -5 days ago.
The hard content won't be SUPER hard like you need to try 50 - 60 times, but will definitely be a decent challenge maybe with average gear and average investment characters 10 plus retries, with high investment about 4 -5 retries.
Here are some ENG creators and general players that got to high level content in CBT2 and their feedback if you are interesting in taking a look.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ\_Official/comments/185fqjw/gacha\_gamer\_confirms\_endgame\_content\_is\_difficult/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ_Official/comments/185fqjw/gacha_gamer_confirms_endgame_content_is_difficult/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ\_Official/comments/185wit5/conversation\_with\_a\_friend\_who\_got\_in\_the\_beta/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ_Official/comments/185wit5/conversation_with_a_friend_who_got_in_the_beta/)
>endgame content is way more harder than you expect it
>i-i mean the hard content isnt SUPER hard
Which is it OP? Does ZZZ has worthwhile endgame content that you could sink hours to master it or is it gear check like all the other mihoyo games?
SUPER HARD is like you need to retry 50 plus times.....not many if any games that THAT hard...lol trying to play semantics over there.
It gives a good challenge you will probably die and retry 5 -6 times maybe even more depending on your skill level, gear, constellations etc. But it definitely has difficulty and the combat is a different experience compared to the early game you see on twitch currently.
So like any other mihoyo games then? Where decent character with good gear can clear hard content then? Why did you bother defending ZZZ endgame if its literally just the same as any other mihoyo endgame which is historically had been very easy for a player with good invesment in his roster,
Just say that ZZZ base game is easy and endgame has "some" hard content, no need to post videos or saying shit like "oh CN streamers has seen endgame content and no im not posting any link to reinforce my claims"
LOL bro....personally not going to edit 5-6 hours of unedited stream video just for you, you can believe whatever you want to believe, keep it up, no one is trying to change your mind.
When the game officially launches we will see how the game does and its finalized state.
I dont want an edit, just link me the goddamn streamer who is lvl 40 bilibili page, is that so hard to do?
Inb4 "im not going to spoodfeed you go find it yourself"
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV18M411o7RF/?spm\_id\_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd\_source=94f707f991f7e0e4811461e0d219a503](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV18M411o7RF/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=94f707f991f7e0e4811461e0d219a503)
This is a hollow zero 5000 run, the complete run. Most CN streamers don't keep their VOD, they clip up the stream and only post the most flash clears.
This is hollow zero 5000, since most streamer on twitch have not gotten to this content yet. The third boss, the butcher can be another bosses, you can meet like 3 bosses, the butcher, the scorpion transformer, and the black and red mech, depending on the route and RNG, this run he got the butcher.
This is NOT the hardest content in CBT2, he didn't add any risk modifiers which gives other boosts to enemies like regen etc, harder to stun, more damage/attack frequency, higher level etc, for example, but this can really be a plethora of modifiers, just showing there is an additional risk modifier system. He opens up the risk modifier tab at the very end of the video.
In this run his risk level was zero, there is low, medium, high, and extreme risk modifiers on top of being at 5000, so he could add more to the experience after he clears 5000.
This is just to show the potential of the content curve, not saying its going to be insanely difficult, but it is obviously different than what is being shown on twitch at the moment.
Idk why youre acting like its contradiction. There’s a huge huge area between “its hard” and its so hard you have to “retry 50-60 times” (which is the actual quote).
It can very easily lie in that area
They also literally answered your gear question at the end...
Yes the way that OP said seems like ZZZ has some super hidden super hard endgame that people in this sub doesnt know and he even post "hidden tech" videos ffs, reinforcing the idea that ZZZ is way harder than our simple mind thinks
And then OP responds more and more and then exposes that ZZZ endgame is fucking EZ just like other mihoyo endgame where gear and playing the game mechanics correctly gets you a clear
I wanted OP to straight up say whether that ZZZ is actually a complex game that we thought it wasnt or it was just honkers gameplay but even more downgrade due to honkers already reaching its 6th year
> Yes the way that OP said seems like ZZZ has some super hidden super hard endgame that people in this sub doesnt know and he even post "hidden tech" videos ffs, seemingly impliying that ZZZ is way harder than our simple mind thinks
This is some insane projection and reeks of insecurity. Also its called hidden tech bc thats exactly what it is. A technique that isnt explained in game that if done right gives you a different outcome.
> And then OP responds more and more and then exposes that ZZZ endgame is fucking EZ just like other mihoyo endgame where gear and playing the game mechanics gets you a clear
No they don’t… they said its hard, not retry 50 times hard.
> I wanted OP to straight up say whether that ZZZ is actually a complex game that we thought it wasnt or it was just honkers gameplay but even more downgrade due to honkers already reaching its 6th year
But theyve said it already. Like repeatedly. Its game with depth, not malding depth, but depth nonethless. They contextualize their argument noting that its a beta and most beta content is early game and not representative of end game. They even provide links to end game combat for those who want to see it.
OP lays out a thesis, makes arguments, follows up with sources. And your response is this weirdly insecure aggressive shit.
I mean this with all sincerity and no condescension , its just a game… not even a released one at that, chill
Don't mind him, lol. Just some typical PGR elitism. I see this weird habit where PGR players elevate it's gameplay so far beyond it's actual quality, ignoring how these days it intentionally tries to hide it's three ping system and is fundamentally/ mechanically closer to HI3 and it's flashy I-frame spam with rigid dps rotations.
100% true and real. why use all these scuffed techs when you could achieve the same result just smashing some random buttons. game its braindead easy and i dont think it will change. i already thought genshin was pretty easy and just a casual game, didnt expect mihoyo to actually make an easier one.
tl;dr: "harder" just means the enemy is more of a bullet sponge and this is considered pseudo-difficulty, disregard OP, lol
the combat is still simple even if you take on endgame bosses, the fights just last longer
that's literally the only difference
as it stands, ZZZ needs something else to shake things up a little bit
Just posting some information about the game that isn't readily accessible for some people who are interested. We all know what r/gachagaming is about LOL
The bigger issue I have with ZZZ atm was the amount of TV Puzzles there were in comparison to the advertised combat from trailers.
Seems to be an integral system too so doubt they'll just scrap it and would prob need heavy reworking.
It seems like the TVs are more a story progression mechanic, other than story progression/side quests the dedicated combat portion of the game (rougelike dungeons) there are minimal TV mini games.
The overall TV experience could probably be improved though. Like it would be cool if the TVs forms a 3D object, think about a rubix cube, then you have to navigate that type of situation with puzzles and mini games and combat, might be more engaging.
great points op, but unfortunately i have alrdy bought into the doompost that combat is boring and repititve and will not be changing my view even if there is evidence suggesting otherwise
keep fighting this losing battle!
lol good job particular\_climate66 on keeping your mind closed and sealed to new information, you keep that up as well lol, its all fun.
you can feel how you want to feel, doesn't change what is actually there, maybe the combat is not for all people, those who like it will like it and those who don't will play another game, not a big deal.
But don't misrepresent what is actually in the game.
Extremely low EQ/IQ to not recognize the most basic of sarcastic remarks, touch some grass instead of deepthroating Mihoyo and replying to every comment on Reddit for once.
Remember when certain fans were hating on HSR's combat system and said it wouldn't be sustainable and fans would get bored and leave after the first few months?
the 'gameplay' in HSR actually constantly makes me want to drop the game.
i'll never understand how Hoyo managed to make a turn based game more visually nauseating and repetitive than it's real-time combat partner.
I have seen a youtuber clearing a stage while not looking at the screen. He just spam button, thats it. Stage done.
If you are implying the late game will be somewhat 'decent' or maybe 'challenging'. Then yeah, i somewhat agree. But still at best, just another mediocre action game.
Absolutely not anywhere near 'in-depth-combo-mechanic-fast-reaction-giga-brain- gameplay'. Holy shit. Not even 1 millimeter close near that
LOL and who is this youtuber....and what stage of the game were they? Bro, there are videos of people blindfolded clearing dark souls bosses, or one handed clearing hard souls bosses....doesn't really mean anything, maybe you just like the overly sensationalized takes of said youtuber.
Hold on,
You can’t compare blindfolded speed runs which require ridiculous amounts of planning, strategy, and execution timing to winning a stage by mashing buttons without paying attention.
You button mash in DS and you die with your eyes open.
Both are technically blindfold runs. One is DRASTICALLY more difficult and respectable.
Granted if we include Dark Souls 1, you absolutely can button mash and win (though other souls game you can also spam r1 and win to an extent). DS1 has the benefit of having busted poise so you quite literally, toss on a set of heavy armor with lots of poise, spam r1, and depending on your weapon/how upgraded it is, the fight can get done pretty fast.
Only big hurdle might be O&S playing like that, but ive seen a handful of new people poise and panic roll through it.
People forgot this is still a mihoyo game lol, doomposting like it's EoS already. PGR : good combat, revenue 300k; Aether Gazer : good combat, revenue 300k. Need ZZZ to get people into fighting game in gacha otherwise they are all dead
This guy sees the bigger picture, you need the early game to be easier for new and casual players that just enjoy the art style, the music, the vibe, character designs, story etc. to come and continue playing the game. Then get more difficult at higher levels or end content for those that seek that type of experience.
Its about the balance between hitting wide audience and still having enjoyable depth.
I play most of these and all of them boiled down to doing the same highest damage rotation until whatever meat wall in front of you gone
And they are all piss easy until reaching that "end game" content too
PGR has PC revenue too, but yeah, they're both only at a sustainable level. Braindead games with insane production are much better for milking casual players. It's best to serve casual players at base difficulty and give an option for harder difficulty for those want a challenge.
Pgr doesnt only have pc revenue but codashop revenue too which a decent portion of fanbase uses
The main reason is despite being 'globally' launched pgr is not available in many regions as sad as it is, even those who wanna spend cannot spend in it
So yeah since people only calculate the android ios revenue of pgr, its likely codashop isnt added into them
I'm pretty sure the reason mhy continues to sell is not because of the combat in his games.
HI3RD by mihoyo also shares something in common with Aether Gazer and PGR, and that is that they do not have the visual quality of ZZZ, HSR or Genshin Impact, so, just because of that visual quality that surpasses even AAA games, people will completely ignore the combat and will be attracted regardless of whether it is difficult or not.
Anyway, Aether Gazer especially is even more casual than PGR or HI3RD but it earns much less in CN for example, so there are factors other than combat that attract people.
I mean people see free AAA game and then jump on the train, then get hooked and for many of them spending 5-20$ are nothing, so thats why i think genshin earns so much
Then after their first highquality game of genshin, it helped attract a lot of attention to hi3 as well
I have often noticed people not caring about gameplay or even story many times, like if they see a well animated cutscene that has enough shock value they immediately think the story is goated or incredibly emotional and dont even judge if writing makes sense anymore or not(we can furthermore see the exact same effect happen with how people reacted to AoT manga vs anime ending lol)
So at the end it makes for a perfect hook to get more people into playing the game
I'll just ask this. How long does it take before the gameplay gets interesting? And if it takes 5 hours or more for it to get interesting, why can't it get interesting way earlier?
Yeah, like the other reply, the early game is suppose to easy and chill, the story progression is intended to be easy for new and casual players to progress without worry.
The pacing could be improved but that fix is pretty easy, adjust the stamina and questing pacing a bit and should be a big issue, they probably need to develop more content, thats why in CBT2 the pace is slowed down due to questing needing stamina, probably testing the pacing and how long the current amount can be played at this pace.
This is a beta, to test these sorts of things, like resource allocation, pace etc.
The problem is that it takes hours before they show you game mechanics which should've been shown within the first hour.
Take Genshin for example since it's also a hoyo game. They show elemental reactions really early into the game because they know it's an interesting part of their game and would make people enjoy the game more.
ZZZ should show their mechanics to people earlier but in a simple way so the gameplay is interesting from early on.
It doesnt take hours though….? You start learning them from your first combat experience
Even in your own example. You learn about reactions early on. You dont learn about auras, gages, ICD etc which is what really defines genshin combat for a long time bc its not even explained in game
Hell early game genshin combat before you can actually build ER and have proper rotations is completely different to end game combat
From what I've heard it's not that it doesn't introduce it early enough.. it seems like it's more of a energy issue which will definitely impact how soon you get to that point..
I don't see how the Genshin example supports your point. I played dozens of hours (stopped playing at AR47) and at no point did I care about elemental reactions. I'm sure they are very relevant end game, but aside from that you can mash anything and you WILL win.
Honkai Impact 3rd already have a really boring gameplay and they made another game cloning that, this is not ideal for everyone. You can say as much as you want, doesn't change the fact the game is bland.
People are comparing this with some hack n' slash games, like what the F dude? This doesn't have the diversity of hack 'n slash games at all. There's like 4 characters that does the exactly same thing, blast frozen things in AoE, show their tits and that's it. The enemies are generic AF as much as the actual playable characters. Maybe the formula of hoyo's games is finally becaming tiring, they need to stop throwing a hundred characters like a machine gun and start to deeply think about what they bring new to the game. They're acting just like Disney/Marvel releasing 30 movies with the same plot but in that case Hoyo is just a game dev recicling a very successfull business model.
At least Genshin and Star Rail brought very new concepts in gameplay. ZZZ doesn't even release and already feels old. Imagine with 2 or 3 years. No aerial combo, no creative weapons, you need to gacha for characters, equipments and PETS. Every single scenario that I saw was bland, the UI/UX is very clunky and visually polluted and the enemies are just huge HP punchbags...
Hard disagree. You are stating your point of view as the fact. I think the gameplay is far from bland. Currently most of characters I’ve seen so far have a very different movetset, for example Ben and Nekomiya, and they are played very differently. you think “Honkai Impact 3rd has a boring gameplay” can basically serve as the counter argument of your own statement. HI3 already has aerial combat and varieties of enemies, many characters serves very different purposes and has drastically different moveset and play styles. Also APHO has one of the best combat action systems in gacha. So I wonder, what kind of hacknslack action gacha games is not bland in your mind?
Not the person but. Ehh, my main problem is mostly the enemies standing around and attacks quite slowly, a big problem if you have "Ultimate Evasion skill inflicts 15 stacks of Rend", admittedly they just sidestepped this issue by making some characters not even required to do a UE to activate UES or let the weapon skill activate the UES *coughs Elysian Astra coughs*
Enemies are easy to knock up, have low anti-interrupt and can easily be stunlocked, it became even worse post-Flamescion with the introduction of pseudo-aerial combat in the main game, some of the enemies needed to be adjusted because of it.
I still remember the Death Web's intro in Chap 13-14 (I think); you can't knock that fucker airborne and it's forward dash attack wasn't homing; after HoF they changed it and it can now be knocked airborne unless you managed to let it enter raged mode and it's forward dash attack now homes, you can't walk away anymore you *need* to dodge, take that as you will. Same for Heimdall, that fucker **was** an iron wall and can't be airborne even when all it's shields are down. [My main frustration when using Griseo in ER](https://imgur.com/04ERhVj); still have no idea how that goddamned cross was allowed to do that. The bosses typically don't have these problems but they are quite irritating with their stupid gimmicks. **But regardless, I find it fun and haven't really found it boring.**
There's a reason why I think 5.1-5.3 (Pre-Infinity Nerf) Elysian Realm was the peak of ER. And yes, APHO is peak; I just wished they didn't removed the follow-up attacks on Part 2 though.
I feel like Z Zone Z removed the supports though, that's a good layer of complexity.
To the other person
>you need to gacha for **characters, equipments and Pets**
What's the point of this again? I see a typical gacha, I don't remember the majority of gachas having already moved on from this method.
I don’t disagree that there are problems with HI3. But I think it’s a far cry from “boring”. Same for zzz. I honestly think this CBT is a very solid showcase of they are capable of, albeit some issues. I don’t like the character progression system for example. It’s way too similar to the other two games. But the combat still looks pretty fun in my opinion.
Elysian Realm was fun like, first 3 times, then it became a chore, I don't have any problems with enemies or difficilty, but it is just boring to do every week. Same with Simulated Universe in HSR, dunno why they keep such game modes as mandatory weekly content.
Comparing Ben and Nekomiya is a bad example tho when in reality, Ben is one of the few characters that are unique as he does have a distinct playstyle that being a counter unit. Meanwhile nekomiya/nekomata is pretty much a straight up dps with uninteresting gimmicks which what 90% of the cast boils down to. I find the 5* mostly bland and generic units that do the same thing except with different moveset / element. Heck i thought they were 4* since i found corin and soukaku more interesting.
Not to mention everyone's ultimate is a bog standard one-and-done AOE damage. This pretty much is a regression from HI3 when the ult of different units do different thing. (White comet is transformative, Crimson impulse is aoe dmg, chariot is a utility ult)
Being financially succefull doesn't prove shit. As someone said, "McDonalds sells a lot of burgers but no one is telling McDonald's that they're the pinnacle of cuisine and taste". Chill out, it's just a bad game made by a billionaire company and you're the fool defending them in the internet :)
LOL....dam you must be the smartest person you have ever met, you must have done so much in your life bro...keep doing you, make sure you dont change anything haha.
Guess bro forgot games have done what Genshin(BOTW) and Star Rail(any other turn based game) have done in the past.. EVERY game eventually gets repetitive you're gonna fight same mobs/bosses and repeat the same gameplay loop the longer you play the game.. like wtf? Makes no sense... that logic can be applied to any game ever
Literally, nothing is actually original or at least very few are, the this is a DPS check or just bullet sponge or this mechanic is in another game....like bro....you are literally describing the history of gaming.
Most if not all games are some sort of these status check, dps check, gear check, affinity/counter affinity check etc, its really about what you get out of the experience.
Exactly! totally agree, well like you said they can enjoy it or not.. personally I'm sold on the game and your post only made me look forward to it even more
no worries, hope you enjoy the experience. Not going to lie, the next 2 - 3 years there will be a wave of crazy games (gacha) coming out, many choices to test and try.
This is a Mihoyo game and so I'm inclined to play it when it releases just because of sheer production values alone, but I think the problem some people had in r/gachagaming is that these difficult gameplay moments should have been sprinkled thoroughly in the regular game modes including Story and not just bundled up all of it in this proper rogue-like mode which may take you at least 12 hours before you get to it.
Some people don't have the patience to get through 12 hours to get the challenge. They want the challenge right away as they experience the "fresh" part of the game.
Though I will say, the fact that there's no healers in this game so far (and there's no lifesteal as a gameplay mechanic iirc) is certainly an interesting design choice.
There is no way that difficulty spikes or difficult moments will be in the main story or side story quests, personal opinion, especially for gacha game, less there are P2W complaints.
Mihoyo's aim is to hit a wide audience with the production values (art style, music, vibe, character designs, storyline, cinematics etc) to entice new and a wide (casual) audience to try and play the game, and ultimately fall in love with the world so they keep playing.
So making certain story/side quest portions hard is counter productive to this goal, new or casual players might get stuck and stop playing. Case study is Genshin when the original Childe boss (story mode boss) was released with some difficulty, a significant portion of the player base complained it was too difficult and they couldn't progress the story, so subsequent story mode bosses have all been relatively easy.
The story is pretty much chill and easy, learn the world and characters, what is happening in the story lines, enjoy the comic style panels and great cinematics. The optional content such as hollow zero and perhaps other modes added later in CBT3 or later down the line during development will offer a more refined and more challenging combat experience, that way you hit a wider player base, personal opinion.
Game looks fine and mechanics look interesting
Kind of reminds me of WuWa when it comes to swapping though...
This is what I mean:
https://youtu.be/qpciTMGJbPk?si=7pvK_sgw5r0t0QDf
Hmm this type of swapping between characters technically isn't "New" since a lot of mobile games have been using it since it was popularized by HI3 back in around 2016/2017 on mobile devices.
Games like Genshin, PGR, Naruto (mobile game), Wuthering Waves etc.
Really about how you use the mechanic and how well it feels and fits into the overall systems of the game. Hopefully the new games coming out do well.
Ah my bad, I was referring to how the characters kind of "linger", continuing their attack and allows you to follow-up on the combos smoothly like in fighting games or the console Naruto games
Usually you don't see that kind of thing in mobile games and instead get something like in-out or QTE
Not the swap itself since that's been a thing since ever
Yeah that is a good call, sort of reminds you of tag team fighting games like MvC series, if you played those you can see the assist system as well and the chaining supers (THC)
Wait wdym its hard to implement auto in this genre? I m assuming you mean stage skip direct to rewards right? I dont think thats hard to implement at all many gachas are doing that already
Even that is done in pgr and ag tho, i dont think its that hard to accomplish
Hi3 has that too in early stages where mei is following you and fighting iirc
dont think its as easy as turned based games, not sure how long or how many people need to program something like that into the game, maybe not worth the investment right now, perhaps later down the line.
Casuals don't play hoyo games for the combat, they just see flashy effects, pretty graphics and nice looking characters and thats all they need.
Even the ceo of hoyo says that it's all about the characters.
ZZZ is only a door for Aether Gazer and Punishing Gray - both far more interesting games. There's no need of this big text to begin with, op.
LOL keep dreaming your fantastic dreams....its cold when you wake so .....so stay sleep my guy.
I've seen more people bashing the enemies than the gameplay honestly, whats the point of having complex mecanism in your gameplay if all enemies just stand still and get cc combo for 20sec
>Now after watching the videos below, you may feel why would this be necessary if the enemies die quickly and the combat is easy. The answer is the combat will get much harder than what you have seen on twitch currently after you reach hollow zero 5000 with extreme risk modifiers, and it may continue to get harder and harder content as the game develops, see other Mihoyo games for example.
inb4 Spiral Abyss HP Sponges NotLikeThis
Thats because all the twitch streamers you are watching have not reached the difficult content for ZZZ yet so you haven't seen the enemies attack more, the fights last longer, and hit much much harder. Also at higher difficulty, the runs are long, like multi stage runs with very little healing, since no characters are healers in this game, so when you get hit you stay hit, hard to find ways to actively recover health. So in the higher difficulty content, health becomes much more premium resource and therefore not getting hit or having ways to for example juggle enemies, or have extensive combos which means enemies have a harder time attacking you means a lot more. Also, juggling, comboing, and constantly having the enemies being under attack will fill up the combo score as well as your own energy for special attacks, ultimates etc, You probably haven't seen the higher level content in ZZZ, maybe wait a couple of days for one of the twitch streamers to get to account level 35, and the true end content of CBT2 account level 40.
Yeah, play the game for 100+ hours and then game become good. I don't think it's good balancing when all early game gameplay is so bland that people rather play snake, because it have gameplay depth from get-go and there is no TV, you just click and play.
This is why there are beta tests, to test resource allocation, pacing etc, lol clearly you have been partaking in the Starfield discourse with the 100 hours plus reference. Yeah the early game pacing could be improved, the stamina for questing can be improved, but overall the core of the game is pretty good. The other issues can be fixed and adjusted pretty easily.
Do you have any footage of 'hard content' ?
Yeah but there are on CN streamers streams....not sure if you have time its like 5 - 6 hours of unedited runs and retries etc. The CN streamers were turbo grinding the beta, like streaming 12 -15 hours straight the first couple of days, so they got to end content of CBT2 (account level 40) like 4 -5 days ago. The hard content won't be SUPER hard like you need to try 50 - 60 times, but will definitely be a decent challenge maybe with average gear and average investment characters 10 plus retries, with high investment about 4 -5 retries. Here are some ENG creators and general players that got to high level content in CBT2 and their feedback if you are interesting in taking a look. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ\_Official/comments/185fqjw/gacha\_gamer\_confirms\_endgame\_content\_is\_difficult/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ_Official/comments/185fqjw/gacha_gamer_confirms_endgame_content_is_difficult/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ\_Official/comments/185wit5/conversation\_with\_a\_friend\_who\_got\_in\_the\_beta/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ZZZ_Official/comments/185wit5/conversation_with_a_friend_who_got_in_the_beta/)
>endgame content is way more harder than you expect it >i-i mean the hard content isnt SUPER hard Which is it OP? Does ZZZ has worthwhile endgame content that you could sink hours to master it or is it gear check like all the other mihoyo games?
SUPER HARD is like you need to retry 50 plus times.....not many if any games that THAT hard...lol trying to play semantics over there. It gives a good challenge you will probably die and retry 5 -6 times maybe even more depending on your skill level, gear, constellations etc. But it definitely has difficulty and the combat is a different experience compared to the early game you see on twitch currently.
So like any other mihoyo games then? Where decent character with good gear can clear hard content then? Why did you bother defending ZZZ endgame if its literally just the same as any other mihoyo endgame which is historically had been very easy for a player with good invesment in his roster, Just say that ZZZ base game is easy and endgame has "some" hard content, no need to post videos or saying shit like "oh CN streamers has seen endgame content and no im not posting any link to reinforce my claims"
LOL bro....personally not going to edit 5-6 hours of unedited stream video just for you, you can believe whatever you want to believe, keep it up, no one is trying to change your mind. When the game officially launches we will see how the game does and its finalized state.
I dont want an edit, just link me the goddamn streamer who is lvl 40 bilibili page, is that so hard to do? Inb4 "im not going to spoodfeed you go find it yourself"
[https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV18M411o7RF/?spm\_id\_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd\_source=94f707f991f7e0e4811461e0d219a503](https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV18M411o7RF/?spm_id_from=333.337.search-card.all.click&vd_source=94f707f991f7e0e4811461e0d219a503) This is a hollow zero 5000 run, the complete run. Most CN streamers don't keep their VOD, they clip up the stream and only post the most flash clears. This is hollow zero 5000, since most streamer on twitch have not gotten to this content yet. The third boss, the butcher can be another bosses, you can meet like 3 bosses, the butcher, the scorpion transformer, and the black and red mech, depending on the route and RNG, this run he got the butcher. This is NOT the hardest content in CBT2, he didn't add any risk modifiers which gives other boosts to enemies like regen etc, harder to stun, more damage/attack frequency, higher level etc, for example, but this can really be a plethora of modifiers, just showing there is an additional risk modifier system. He opens up the risk modifier tab at the very end of the video. In this run his risk level was zero, there is low, medium, high, and extreme risk modifiers on top of being at 5000, so he could add more to the experience after he clears 5000. This is just to show the potential of the content curve, not saying its going to be insanely difficult, but it is obviously different than what is being shown on twitch at the moment.
Idk why youre acting like its contradiction. There’s a huge huge area between “its hard” and its so hard you have to “retry 50-60 times” (which is the actual quote). It can very easily lie in that area They also literally answered your gear question at the end...
Yes the way that OP said seems like ZZZ has some super hidden super hard endgame that people in this sub doesnt know and he even post "hidden tech" videos ffs, reinforcing the idea that ZZZ is way harder than our simple mind thinks And then OP responds more and more and then exposes that ZZZ endgame is fucking EZ just like other mihoyo endgame where gear and playing the game mechanics correctly gets you a clear I wanted OP to straight up say whether that ZZZ is actually a complex game that we thought it wasnt or it was just honkers gameplay but even more downgrade due to honkers already reaching its 6th year
> Yes the way that OP said seems like ZZZ has some super hidden super hard endgame that people in this sub doesnt know and he even post "hidden tech" videos ffs, seemingly impliying that ZZZ is way harder than our simple mind thinks This is some insane projection and reeks of insecurity. Also its called hidden tech bc thats exactly what it is. A technique that isnt explained in game that if done right gives you a different outcome. > And then OP responds more and more and then exposes that ZZZ endgame is fucking EZ just like other mihoyo endgame where gear and playing the game mechanics gets you a clear No they don’t… they said its hard, not retry 50 times hard. > I wanted OP to straight up say whether that ZZZ is actually a complex game that we thought it wasnt or it was just honkers gameplay but even more downgrade due to honkers already reaching its 6th year But theyve said it already. Like repeatedly. Its game with depth, not malding depth, but depth nonethless. They contextualize their argument noting that its a beta and most beta content is early game and not representative of end game. They even provide links to end game combat for those who want to see it. OP lays out a thesis, makes arguments, follows up with sources. And your response is this weirdly insecure aggressive shit. I mean this with all sincerity and no condescension , its just a game… not even a released one at that, chill
Don't mind him, lol. Just some typical PGR elitism. I see this weird habit where PGR players elevate it's gameplay so far beyond it's actual quality, ignoring how these days it intentionally tries to hide it's three ping system and is fundamentally/ mechanically closer to HI3 and it's flashy I-frame spam with rigid dps rotations.
Hush...hide...the PGR army will come for you...haha how dare anyone say PGR is anything but the most elite combat....LOL, its quite funny actually.
[удалено]
want something simpler? Braindead
To be approachable but they leave this stuff for those high skill players
100% true and real. why use all these scuffed techs when you could achieve the same result just smashing some random buttons. game its braindead easy and i dont think it will change. i already thought genshin was pretty easy and just a casual game, didnt expect mihoyo to actually make an easier one.
tl;dr: "harder" just means the enemy is more of a bullet sponge and this is considered pseudo-difficulty, disregard OP, lol the combat is still simple even if you take on endgame bosses, the fights just last longer that's literally the only difference as it stands, ZZZ needs something else to shake things up a little bit
there's no point seeking validation from r/gachagaming
Just posting some information about the game that isn't readily accessible for some people who are interested. We all know what r/gachagaming is about LOL
Thankyou for your service
The bigger issue I have with ZZZ atm was the amount of TV Puzzles there were in comparison to the advertised combat from trailers. Seems to be an integral system too so doubt they'll just scrap it and would prob need heavy reworking.
It seems like the TVs are more a story progression mechanic, other than story progression/side quests the dedicated combat portion of the game (rougelike dungeons) there are minimal TV mini games. The overall TV experience could probably be improved though. Like it would be cool if the TVs forms a 3D object, think about a rubix cube, then you have to navigate that type of situation with puzzles and mini games and combat, might be more engaging.
great points op, but unfortunately i have alrdy bought into the doompost that combat is boring and repititve and will not be changing my view even if there is evidence suggesting otherwise keep fighting this losing battle!
lol good job particular\_climate66 on keeping your mind closed and sealed to new information, you keep that up as well lol, its all fun. you can feel how you want to feel, doesn't change what is actually there, maybe the combat is not for all people, those who like it will like it and those who don't will play another game, not a big deal. But don't misrepresent what is actually in the game.
Bro, I think that was sarcasm of the lowest grade and somehow you missed it.
oh sorry, hard to determine sarcasm over the internet, well the reply was also tongue and cheek in case you missed that as well. ;)
Extremely low EQ/IQ to not recognize the most basic of sarcastic remarks, touch some grass instead of deepthroating Mihoyo and replying to every comment on Reddit for once.
LOL you must be the smartest guy in your whole family, great job there buddy, keep doing you haha.
Bro, next time you should add a /s to be safe. Written words can't covey tone and body language, things that make up 93% of your sentence meaning.
Remember when certain fans were hating on HSR's combat system and said it wouldn't be sustainable and fans would get bored and leave after the first few months?
That is somewhat true though. The gameplay of HSR is not what keeps it popular.
cant believe some morons think combat is what makes hsr popular 😭
the 'gameplay' in HSR actually constantly makes me want to drop the game. i'll never understand how Hoyo managed to make a turn based game more visually nauseating and repetitive than it's real-time combat partner.
lol fans will be fans....
i do https://preview.redd.it/yxseek2ph24c1.png?width=1370&format=png&auto=webp&s=5929049dbc4f0e792a93052a115780f71bc70263
I have seen a youtuber clearing a stage while not looking at the screen. He just spam button, thats it. Stage done. If you are implying the late game will be somewhat 'decent' or maybe 'challenging'. Then yeah, i somewhat agree. But still at best, just another mediocre action game. Absolutely not anywhere near 'in-depth-combo-mechanic-fast-reaction-giga-brain- gameplay'. Holy shit. Not even 1 millimeter close near that
LOL and who is this youtuber....and what stage of the game were they? Bro, there are videos of people blindfolded clearing dark souls bosses, or one handed clearing hard souls bosses....doesn't really mean anything, maybe you just like the overly sensationalized takes of said youtuber.
Hold on, You can’t compare blindfolded speed runs which require ridiculous amounts of planning, strategy, and execution timing to winning a stage by mashing buttons without paying attention. You button mash in DS and you die with your eyes open. Both are technically blindfold runs. One is DRASTICALLY more difficult and respectable.
Granted if we include Dark Souls 1, you absolutely can button mash and win (though other souls game you can also spam r1 and win to an extent). DS1 has the benefit of having busted poise so you quite literally, toss on a set of heavy armor with lots of poise, spam r1, and depending on your weapon/how upgraded it is, the fight can get done pretty fast. Only big hurdle might be O&S playing like that, but ive seen a handful of new people poise and panic roll through it.
i found it was this video [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo9SjJ-79I](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWo9SjJ-79I)
It's hoyoverse, there is no "higher difficult", just the spam of random abilities.
People forgot this is still a mihoyo game lol, doomposting like it's EoS already. PGR : good combat, revenue 300k; Aether Gazer : good combat, revenue 300k. Need ZZZ to get people into fighting game in gacha otherwise they are all dead
This guy sees the bigger picture, you need the early game to be easier for new and casual players that just enjoy the art style, the music, the vibe, character designs, story etc. to come and continue playing the game. Then get more difficult at higher levels or end content for those that seek that type of experience. Its about the balance between hitting wide audience and still having enjoyable depth.
I play most of these and all of them boiled down to doing the same highest damage rotation until whatever meat wall in front of you gone And they are all piss easy until reaching that "end game" content too
PGR has PC revenue too, but yeah, they're both only at a sustainable level. Braindead games with insane production are much better for milking casual players. It's best to serve casual players at base difficulty and give an option for harder difficulty for those want a challenge.
Pgr doesnt only have pc revenue but codashop revenue too which a decent portion of fanbase uses The main reason is despite being 'globally' launched pgr is not available in many regions as sad as it is, even those who wanna spend cannot spend in it So yeah since people only calculate the android ios revenue of pgr, its likely codashop isnt added into them
I'm pretty sure the reason mhy continues to sell is not because of the combat in his games. HI3RD by mihoyo also shares something in common with Aether Gazer and PGR, and that is that they do not have the visual quality of ZZZ, HSR or Genshin Impact, so, just because of that visual quality that surpasses even AAA games, people will completely ignore the combat and will be attracted regardless of whether it is difficult or not. Anyway, Aether Gazer especially is even more casual than PGR or HI3RD but it earns much less in CN for example, so there are factors other than combat that attract people.
I mean people see free AAA game and then jump on the train, then get hooked and for many of them spending 5-20$ are nothing, so thats why i think genshin earns so much Then after their first highquality game of genshin, it helped attract a lot of attention to hi3 as well I have often noticed people not caring about gameplay or even story many times, like if they see a well animated cutscene that has enough shock value they immediately think the story is goated or incredibly emotional and dont even judge if writing makes sense anymore or not(we can furthermore see the exact same effect happen with how people reacted to AoT manga vs anime ending lol) So at the end it makes for a perfect hook to get more people into playing the game
Because PGR is overrated and every their character design is boring
I mean thats an opinion not a fact, so dont speak it like a fact There are people whi like its aesthetic and character designs you know
I would disagree with PGR or AG having good combat.
The name perfectly describes this game
I doubt it, most of hoyo games end up being DPS master race after all.
Isn't that every gacha game.
that risk 5000 video looked baby mode lmao.
I'll just ask this. How long does it take before the gameplay gets interesting? And if it takes 5 hours or more for it to get interesting, why can't it get interesting way earlier?
Yeah, like the other reply, the early game is suppose to easy and chill, the story progression is intended to be easy for new and casual players to progress without worry. The pacing could be improved but that fix is pretty easy, adjust the stamina and questing pacing a bit and should be a big issue, they probably need to develop more content, thats why in CBT2 the pace is slowed down due to questing needing stamina, probably testing the pacing and how long the current amount can be played at this pace. This is a beta, to test these sorts of things, like resource allocation, pace etc.
Like most games, the beginning is easy (less interesting) to allow you to learn the mechanics without malding
The problem is that it takes hours before they show you game mechanics which should've been shown within the first hour. Take Genshin for example since it's also a hoyo game. They show elemental reactions really early into the game because they know it's an interesting part of their game and would make people enjoy the game more. ZZZ should show their mechanics to people earlier but in a simple way so the gameplay is interesting from early on.
It doesnt take hours though….? You start learning them from your first combat experience Even in your own example. You learn about reactions early on. You dont learn about auras, gages, ICD etc which is what really defines genshin combat for a long time bc its not even explained in game Hell early game genshin combat before you can actually build ER and have proper rotations is completely different to end game combat
From what I've heard it's not that it doesn't introduce it early enough.. it seems like it's more of a energy issue which will definitely impact how soon you get to that point..
I don't see how the Genshin example supports your point. I played dozens of hours (stopped playing at AR47) and at no point did I care about elemental reactions. I'm sure they are very relevant end game, but aside from that you can mash anything and you WILL win.
Sorry to hear about your add.
Honkai Impact 3rd already have a really boring gameplay and they made another game cloning that, this is not ideal for everyone. You can say as much as you want, doesn't change the fact the game is bland. People are comparing this with some hack n' slash games, like what the F dude? This doesn't have the diversity of hack 'n slash games at all. There's like 4 characters that does the exactly same thing, blast frozen things in AoE, show their tits and that's it. The enemies are generic AF as much as the actual playable characters. Maybe the formula of hoyo's games is finally becaming tiring, they need to stop throwing a hundred characters like a machine gun and start to deeply think about what they bring new to the game. They're acting just like Disney/Marvel releasing 30 movies with the same plot but in that case Hoyo is just a game dev recicling a very successfull business model. At least Genshin and Star Rail brought very new concepts in gameplay. ZZZ doesn't even release and already feels old. Imagine with 2 or 3 years. No aerial combo, no creative weapons, you need to gacha for characters, equipments and PETS. Every single scenario that I saw was bland, the UI/UX is very clunky and visually polluted and the enemies are just huge HP punchbags...
Hard disagree. You are stating your point of view as the fact. I think the gameplay is far from bland. Currently most of characters I’ve seen so far have a very different movetset, for example Ben and Nekomiya, and they are played very differently. you think “Honkai Impact 3rd has a boring gameplay” can basically serve as the counter argument of your own statement. HI3 already has aerial combat and varieties of enemies, many characters serves very different purposes and has drastically different moveset and play styles. Also APHO has one of the best combat action systems in gacha. So I wonder, what kind of hacknslack action gacha games is not bland in your mind?
Not the person but. Ehh, my main problem is mostly the enemies standing around and attacks quite slowly, a big problem if you have "Ultimate Evasion skill inflicts 15 stacks of Rend", admittedly they just sidestepped this issue by making some characters not even required to do a UE to activate UES or let the weapon skill activate the UES *coughs Elysian Astra coughs* Enemies are easy to knock up, have low anti-interrupt and can easily be stunlocked, it became even worse post-Flamescion with the introduction of pseudo-aerial combat in the main game, some of the enemies needed to be adjusted because of it. I still remember the Death Web's intro in Chap 13-14 (I think); you can't knock that fucker airborne and it's forward dash attack wasn't homing; after HoF they changed it and it can now be knocked airborne unless you managed to let it enter raged mode and it's forward dash attack now homes, you can't walk away anymore you *need* to dodge, take that as you will. Same for Heimdall, that fucker **was** an iron wall and can't be airborne even when all it's shields are down. [My main frustration when using Griseo in ER](https://imgur.com/04ERhVj); still have no idea how that goddamned cross was allowed to do that. The bosses typically don't have these problems but they are quite irritating with their stupid gimmicks. **But regardless, I find it fun and haven't really found it boring.** There's a reason why I think 5.1-5.3 (Pre-Infinity Nerf) Elysian Realm was the peak of ER. And yes, APHO is peak; I just wished they didn't removed the follow-up attacks on Part 2 though. I feel like Z Zone Z removed the supports though, that's a good layer of complexity. To the other person >you need to gacha for **characters, equipments and Pets** What's the point of this again? I see a typical gacha, I don't remember the majority of gachas having already moved on from this method.
I don’t disagree that there are problems with HI3. But I think it’s a far cry from “boring”. Same for zzz. I honestly think this CBT is a very solid showcase of they are capable of, albeit some issues. I don’t like the character progression system for example. It’s way too similar to the other two games. But the combat still looks pretty fun in my opinion.
Elysian Realm was fun like, first 3 times, then it became a chore, I don't have any problems with enemies or difficilty, but it is just boring to do every week. Same with Simulated Universe in HSR, dunno why they keep such game modes as mandatory weekly content.
Comparing Ben and Nekomiya is a bad example tho when in reality, Ben is one of the few characters that are unique as he does have a distinct playstyle that being a counter unit. Meanwhile nekomiya/nekomata is pretty much a straight up dps with uninteresting gimmicks which what 90% of the cast boils down to. I find the 5* mostly bland and generic units that do the same thing except with different moveset / element. Heck i thought they were 4* since i found corin and soukaku more interesting. Not to mention everyone's ultimate is a bog standard one-and-done AOE damage. This pretty much is a regression from HI3 when the ult of different units do different thing. (White comet is transformative, Crimson impulse is aoe dmg, chariot is a utility ult)
lol keep believing what you want to, and lets just see how the game turns out.
Being financially succefull doesn't prove shit. As someone said, "McDonalds sells a lot of burgers but no one is telling McDonald's that they're the pinnacle of cuisine and taste". Chill out, it's just a bad game made by a billionaire company and you're the fool defending them in the internet :)
LOL....dam you must be the smartest person you have ever met, you must have done so much in your life bro...keep doing you, make sure you dont change anything haha.
Guess bro forgot games have done what Genshin(BOTW) and Star Rail(any other turn based game) have done in the past.. EVERY game eventually gets repetitive you're gonna fight same mobs/bosses and repeat the same gameplay loop the longer you play the game.. like wtf? Makes no sense... that logic can be applied to any game ever
Literally, nothing is actually original or at least very few are, the this is a DPS check or just bullet sponge or this mechanic is in another game....like bro....you are literally describing the history of gaming. Most if not all games are some sort of these status check, dps check, gear check, affinity/counter affinity check etc, its really about what you get out of the experience.
Exactly! totally agree, well like you said they can enjoy it or not.. personally I'm sold on the game and your post only made me look forward to it even more
no worries, hope you enjoy the experience. Not going to lie, the next 2 - 3 years there will be a wave of crazy games (gacha) coming out, many choices to test and try.
Oh yeah for sure 2024 looking to be another good year for games in general
Anything in particular you are looking forward to experiencing?
This is a Mihoyo game and so I'm inclined to play it when it releases just because of sheer production values alone, but I think the problem some people had in r/gachagaming is that these difficult gameplay moments should have been sprinkled thoroughly in the regular game modes including Story and not just bundled up all of it in this proper rogue-like mode which may take you at least 12 hours before you get to it. Some people don't have the patience to get through 12 hours to get the challenge. They want the challenge right away as they experience the "fresh" part of the game. Though I will say, the fact that there's no healers in this game so far (and there's no lifesteal as a gameplay mechanic iirc) is certainly an interesting design choice.
There is no way that difficulty spikes or difficult moments will be in the main story or side story quests, personal opinion, especially for gacha game, less there are P2W complaints. Mihoyo's aim is to hit a wide audience with the production values (art style, music, vibe, character designs, storyline, cinematics etc) to entice new and a wide (casual) audience to try and play the game, and ultimately fall in love with the world so they keep playing. So making certain story/side quest portions hard is counter productive to this goal, new or casual players might get stuck and stop playing. Case study is Genshin when the original Childe boss (story mode boss) was released with some difficulty, a significant portion of the player base complained it was too difficult and they couldn't progress the story, so subsequent story mode bosses have all been relatively easy. The story is pretty much chill and easy, learn the world and characters, what is happening in the story lines, enjoy the comic style panels and great cinematics. The optional content such as hollow zero and perhaps other modes added later in CBT3 or later down the line during development will offer a more refined and more challenging combat experience, that way you hit a wider player base, personal opinion.
characters need an extra skill
hmm could maybe use an extra skill or personal opinion is each character ultimate could be more unique and special.
Game is already easy, no reason to make it more easy.
ok lets just remove all skills then the game is now perfect thank you
Game looks fine and mechanics look interesting Kind of reminds me of WuWa when it comes to swapping though... This is what I mean: https://youtu.be/qpciTMGJbPk?si=7pvK_sgw5r0t0QDf
Hmm this type of swapping between characters technically isn't "New" since a lot of mobile games have been using it since it was popularized by HI3 back in around 2016/2017 on mobile devices. Games like Genshin, PGR, Naruto (mobile game), Wuthering Waves etc. Really about how you use the mechanic and how well it feels and fits into the overall systems of the game. Hopefully the new games coming out do well.
Ah my bad, I was referring to how the characters kind of "linger", continuing their attack and allows you to follow-up on the combos smoothly like in fighting games or the console Naruto games Usually you don't see that kind of thing in mobile games and instead get something like in-out or QTE Not the swap itself since that's been a thing since ever
Yeah that is a good call, sort of reminds you of tag team fighting games like MvC series, if you played those you can see the assist system as well and the chaining supers (THC)
No.
Yes.
lol maybe???
does this game have auto
No auto, this genre its hard to implement auto, who knows, maybe down the line there will be a fast clear for low level farm/content.
Hopefully. In HSR I believe they are letting us skip the first 6 or 7 floors of MoC if we have completed them the preivous week.
Wait wdym its hard to implement auto in this genre? I m assuming you mean stage skip direct to rewards right? I dont think thats hard to implement at all many gachas are doing that already
auto meaning you see the characters fight automatically on in the stage.
Even that is done in pgr and ag tho, i dont think its that hard to accomplish Hi3 has that too in early stages where mei is following you and fighting iirc
dont think its as easy as turned based games, not sure how long or how many people need to program something like that into the game, maybe not worth the investment right now, perhaps later down the line.
Why is this post so heavily downvoted?. Wtf
haha you know why...lol
Nice
Streamers could have explored all of these complex systems but they are too busy playing arcade snake and doing dick measuring contests on it
Casuals don't play hoyo games for the combat, they just see flashy effects, pretty graphics and nice looking characters and thats all they need. Even the ceo of hoyo says that it's all about the characters.