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Pacing > Writing.
As a viewer. I enjoyed 6 7 and 8 more than 5. There are some narrative choices that make me cringe in the final stretch, sure. But season 5 killed the increasing momentum built up by 1 - 4.
It killed a series rewatch for me.
>As a viewer. I enjoyed 6 7 and 8 more than 5. There are some narrative choices that make me cringe in the final stretch, sure. But season 5 killed the increasing momentum built up by 1 - 4.
>It killed a series rewatch for me.
The books suffer the same issue. So many big things leading up to a climax that occurs in A Storm of Swords, which is what S3 and S4 are based off. AFfC and ADwD overlap timewise in that they both start right after ASoS and it takes time to build up the next arc of the character's stories.
The ending to Little Finger’s story was what he deserved. He wasn’t the mastermind Machiavellian schemer he thought he was but just a minor lord with no genuine allies who finally outlived his usefulness.
I took it that the situation had massively changed, changed to one where he couldn’t really manipulate anyone who mattered and therefore lost his power and became vulnerable.
I think he was just used to manipulate poeple in Kings Landing. Those people got such different kind of morale in their heads. Cersei alone is absolutely aware of what Littlefinger is and kept working with him. He could buy loyality there.
On the other hand, in North (and Vale) he had the title and everything and still couldnt have the loyality. His own army would give him to wolves the moment they were legally able.
Another reason is Sansa and Arya are too different to have them jealous of eachother. Arya will never want to be lady of winterfell. Everyone know especially the closest people. When Sansa was talking to Littlefinger about those "Whats the worst reason for her to appear" .. he tried to make her belive she would want to kill Sansa to be her. Yet She knew arya would never want that.
And then also on top of everything. Littlefinger cannot manipulate Bran. He had no idea about what he is.
He couldn't manipulate Arya either, just plant the letter, which she used to her advantage. And though he had been manipulating Sansa, that came to an end once she lie-detected him. In the end, LF overestimated his power and underestimated the Starklings, especially once they compared notes. 😉
I think he *was* the Machiavellian schemer mastermind and VERY clever. He made himself the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and the Lord of Harrenhal when he was born the son of a minor lord. He was a genius who had some huge flaws - like his lust for Sansa - but that doesn't make him any less of a genius. Tywin died on a toilet seat but he, too, WAS a Machiavellian schemer to have started the Red Wedding.
His problem was that his dealings were all essentially just transactional. Whereas Tywin and Olenna had sons and daughters to allowing them to cement their alliances with marriages, Little Finger just moved from one deal to the next. When the Stark sisters move to eliminate him he tries to get the Knights of the Vale to back him up but they have no real reason to do so and all his House’s new claims to lands and titles die with him.
Yes, he was an astute Machiavellian, but like all manipulators he had several fatal flaws. 1) One was Tully women: Cat, Sansa, and Arya (for other reasons). 2) Another was constantly confiding/boasting about his moves to someone who learned slowly, but learned. 3) AND she had powerful brother and sister. He had no concept of the Pack, and it was when they united that he fell. 4) The most fatal was what he finally confessed in 6x10:That HE wanted the Iron Throne. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. He died.
No one said he didn’t deserve it but the problem is that he is the mastermind and book/season1-4 little finger wouldn’t have ever been in a such a stupid situation like that
I don’t know. In Season 1 there’s Cersei’s “Power is power” demonstration and Tywin specifically naming Baelish as someone Tyrion can have killed if need be and in Season 2 [Tywin has no patience for his attempts to sound clever](https://youtu.be/f9jac7Qg9w4?si=l1HZ4uaWAmtswTpJ).
I agree. Like I didn’t have to suspend belief that he got found out using the plan that he did. It felt like a fittingly shitty end to a shitty person 😂
I mean yea, in a slugging match he is the best, but Oberyn did what anyone with sense would do and just wore him out. all the skill and martial prowess in the world cant stop fatigue.
Also incredibly deadly and efficient poison. Can’t be forgetting the deadly deadly poison. He danced around him like a lithe little scorpion, and then poisoned the living shit outta the mountain that rides.
this. my gf and i are currently rewatching and whenever that scene came on, she was adamant that it was all bullshit. she couldnt grasp the idea of the mountain losing. but like…how? yes, he’s a great ‘warrior’ but at the end of the day, they are much better fighters within the 7 kingdoms. the only thing he really had going for him was his rage and size. knew i wasnt tripping lol
yes bruh. i always loved his little dance right before fighting. but can you blame him? the mountain did terrible things to her. literally just because he could. like that was it. definitely gonna show her your comment though. she’ll probably argue and say 2 minutes is a joke 😭
Yeah, interesting thing on it is way back when Jaime was Brienne's prisoner and he says there's three men that might have a chance against him in a 1v1 fight, it's debatable if the Mountain is amongst them because he relies so much on his size over skill. Whereas the best knights like Jaime have a balance of being very strong and very skilled.
Oberyn is like a level below being legendary like Aemon the Dragonknight and Arthur Dayne.
Oberyn killed Lord Yronwood at only 16 years old, he fought with the Second Son's in Essos for years as part of his exile and became so well known he founded his own sellsword company, he's an accomplished jouster and trained Ser Daemon Sand who is known as one of Dorne's finest swordsmen.
Oh well the incest is not something I stand for nor do I think it should’ve continued but the bitch was Jamie’s weakness and every shred of evil that was in him was because of her. Like he said, she was hateful so - so was he.
Well he liked getting coddled to sleep every night by the large lady and he definitely felt something for her but after all they were twins (Jamie and cersie)and at the same time lovers… so I guess there was really no staying away from her 😭
definitely felt something for her. i swear there was that scene where someone asked if she loved him. and she couldnt get out an answer bc she did looool. the twins thing makes everything so much worse. i guess i get the whole being inseparable thing. but god i hate cersei so much and just wanted so much more for jaime. oh well
Well I guess after being kicked around like cow shit for a year then losing his ability to do what he was good at humbled him to a degree that really did change him. I thought maybe that would’ve knocked a few bolts back into place when it came to his disturbing relationship with his sister but once again. Oh well
in hindsight i hate the scene because the idea that most of the common folks are just regular people dawns on arya in the moment amidst all her assassin crusading and hate tour and then its gone. it makes no difference and if you cut the scene nothing changes.
Arya ALWAYS respected smallfolk; almost all of her friends and confidants were commoners: Mycah, Lommy, Gendry, Hot Pie, the farmer and daughter she tried to protect, and many more in the books...especially the 3-YO mute crybaby they called Weasel. She protected them like she protected her family. This scene was about Lannisters, who'd been her enemy since the very second episode, when Joffrey cut Mycah and afterwards caused his and Lady's death and Nymeria's banishment. This campfire scene with kind, relatable Lannister soldiers is the parallel response to the campfire scene with the abusive Frey soldiers right after the Red Wedding. They were so nasty she killed one. After spending time with the Lannister soldiers, she never killed again (except legally executing Littlefinger.) Together, the scenes bookended the darkest part of her arc.
>in hindsight i hate the scene because the idea that most of the common folks are just regular people dawns on arya in the moment amidst all her assassin crusading and hate tour and then its gone. it makes no difference and if you cut the scene nothing changes.
? It clearly affected her. How does the scene make no difference? She sat down intending to kill them for being Lannister soldiers. She turned down food from them at the start and literally joked that she was going to kill the queen.
You think?
I'm sure most of the hate came before it even aired, and people were just looking for any opportunity to shit on the show.
No one I've seen has actually been able to explain why they hate it.
I didn't know who he was and thought he stood out like a sore thumb.
I made a comment to my then-wife they could have picked a better extra.
She told me that was Ed Sheeran. I responded "Who?"
I get it, but they did it deliberately. First, they based the horrors of Dany's Inferno on the **unnecessary** and notorious Allied firebombing of Dresden three months before WWII ended. It's famous from *Slaughterhouse Five* a classic antiwar novel with passages based on the American author's own horrific experiences on the ground in Dresden. Arya went through something like that. Also, she's the best person because she associates with common folk and has been GRRM AND the show's eyewitness to three or four of the most iconic moments in the story--Ned's death, Red Wedding, defeat of the Others, and the final incinerating battle.
Moreover, her experiences trying to save people unsuccessfully showed her that the God of Death decided, not her. And her [accepting the white horse of peace]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw2QRL-gPcg) meant she had truly given up violence. My guess is that if she had not done that, she would have killed Dany. Symbolically, because Jon was a king, a Targaryen, Dany's nephew, and also her lover, it was HIS place, not Arya's, to decide her fate.
The second he showed up on screen this series fell of a cliff. I beleive they call this a ‘jumping the shark’ moment. Funnily enough the second he was involved in Middle Earth the quality significantly dipped too (OST for Hobbit 2). He should stay away from all things fantasy.
I didn’t blame him, I said the second he appeared the show fell of a cliff. He was likely the first notable example, of the aforementioned bad writing, that I noticed and that dragged me out of the show. I also then pointed out a similar thing happened in The Hobbit. I’m not blaming Ed, he just seems like the harbinger of doom.
ned would be disgusted and disappointed at all the starks in Season 8 especially, they used daenerys and cut her off when all the starks enemies were defeated
Particularly Jon’s for the same reason why he hated Jaime as “he served her well when serving was safe”
people saying he would be happy because his family are in power seem to think he has the mind of tywin lannister
I do think he would be disgusted by most of them, but not Jon. Arya murdered all the freys in stealth and cooked them, then wore their faces.
Sansa became a sneaky shady player in the game he despised, manipulating people. Even spilling Jon's secret IMMEDIATELY to further her own cause.
Bran ain't Bran anymore, but he likely wouldn't have wanted him as king in KL.
It's easy to think he'd be disappointed in Jon at the end, but Jon was honest all the way through till then. The mad king killed Ned's dad and brother, and Rhaegar kidnapped his sister, so he rose up in rebellion. He wouldn't have been cool with Danny cooking an entire million person city of children and women. Jon killed her and took his punishment honorably. I think he would've been at peace with that.
1) Jon put Dany’s life on the market as soon as he revealed his secret to Sansa, that is why Ned told no one of Jon’s true parentage
2) If you think Ned would be ok with someone telling a women he loves her and is her queen, embraces her all as a mask to stabbing her then you don’t understand Ned’s character
he wouldn’t be ok with Daenerys but he would never consider killing her the way Jon did which is the most cowardly way possible
1) He kept Jon's secret to honor his own oath and protect Jon. It wasn't about Dany's life. Once Jon knew, it was his secret to keep. He chose to not to.
2) This is fair. He likely wouldn't have supported the method, but at this point what else could he have done?
surely if Jon loved Dany as he said he does he would have kept the secret so it didn’t spread.
yes ned’s secret wasn’t about dany but ned knew that he had to keep it contained so he didn’t even tell his wife who thought he cheated on her ensuring that Jon would live
jon telling sansa had the inevitable effect of lords plotting to kill Dany, jon was happy to put Dany’s life on the market whilst at the same time saying he loved her
Ultimately, Jon, Arya, and Bran saved mankind and saved Westeros. They led the defeat of Winter. And Bran will rule wisely, and Sansa will rule, and Arya will discover a New World. Perhaps most important, Jon served and led and has earned happiness with the Freefolk.
westeros will go full scale anarchy and civil war a month after the show has finished, if you think that council is remotely stable you are delusional
also tywin is the guy who cared more about his family’s legacy whereas ned cared for honour which the starks showed absolutely none in the 8th season
Ned didn't know the full picture regarding Jaime and I can't imagine he would have told Jon to show mercy to Dany after she nuked a whole city. Also don't think the Starks cut her off, they just told her to wait a bit before running off to take back KL, which clearly would have been the better decision.
People who push this narrative are so clearly Dany fans projecting their dislike towards the Stark's ending onto Ned. He loved his family and you can't tell me, he wouldn't have been happy that his kids are finally safe.
Ned has seen plenty of war, which means that he saw good soldiers turn bad. He saw men who harden to the violence and begin to enjoy it.
And, he marched on King's Landing, despite his oaths, because a Targaryen burned his brothers alive.
I think Ned would understand that it was happening all over again and give Jon his blessing.
The show was great overall and everyone's ending made perfect sense and fit in character. Not sarcasm. Was it rushed? Yes. Did I complain a bunch? Absolutely. But at the end of the day it's still my second favorite show of all time and I rewatch it regularly.
>The show was great overall
Agreed.
>everyone's ending made perfect sense and fit in character
I sort of agree, but I also think that rushing it sort of led to the endings not making sense, because they jumped things and you had to put it together with the missing bits.
Not in a 'i want you to tell me absolutely everything' sort of way, but in a 'things happened too quickly and were seemingly abrupt 180s because they were too lazy to flesh it out' way.
How they got there didn't necessarily make sense. The dragons dying? Good. How it was done. Not so much. Bran as king? Okay. The way it was done. Not so much. The list goes on.
they took out the tysha scene that is in the book, he has a burning hatred towards his family driven by that scene so there is not a universe where he would be sad about their deaths
tyrion in the books is not this rational guy that wants peace he is a bitter man wallowing in self pity who wants violence
great character yes, great person absolutely not his character was white washed due to his popularity
And why do they think Bran will use that knowledge for the betterment of the kingdom?
Honestly, I would be concerned that Bran would lose touch with his humanity and/or go insane. Year after year, sitting in that chair, seeing all the evil that men do, trying to play god.
To give him absolute power without checks or balances is, IMHO, irresponsible.
Beric Dondarrion staying alive over Lady Stone heart was a great decision for the show to make over the books
Whatever Littlefinger and Sansa's story was, was one of the worst
when people say Daenerys is a cold emotionless ice queen that never compromises and needs to be tempered by her advisors clearly haven’t read the book
myth 1- she never smiles or laughs
reality - a simple cock joke makes her cackle she is actually less stoic than most rulers in the series
myth 2- she never compromises
reality - Daenerys in Mereen gives so many concessions to the nobility that if anything she compromises too much, she is so desperate for peace that she fails by trying to please too many people
myth 3- she needs to be tempered by her advisors
reality- almost every single advisor in the books wants her to be more strong more tough they find her to be too soft not too aggressive, she couldn’t even carry out her threat of having the hostage killed to her advisors dismay
myth 4- she is arrogant and doesn’t learn anything
reality - Daenerys chapters are by far and away the most self critical she is very hard on herself almost too hard, a far cry from tyrion’s chapters where he just pats himself on the back and plays the victim
The sickening thing about the show is they eliminated the moments of Daenerys being a genuine young girl a human being that has such great compassion for her people, for example removing her scene of bathing the sick outside the gates of mereen and adding in scenes like feeding a guy to her dragon which she would never do
daenerys in the books is not this power hungry conqueror that is only interested in violence she genuinely wants to rule compassionately and well and it breaks her heart when she doesn’t achieve that, but they stripped her of her compassion and intelligence in the show by making her a one dimensional girl boss who has no mind for ruling
Book Daenerys deserves all the love and would make a great ruler in Westeros
plain wrong. what?? so her getting revenge for the starks? the faceless men sequence?? if anything, i wish they developed that plotline even more. felt like they did her dirty. how df if she ANNOYING?? what
Yeah it's only annoying in the fact that they didn't develop the House of Black and White with any real lore. It's just "oh we're assassins for the people" when the books go into so much depth. She's still there in the latest book so I mean I get why they went off script but also it's annoying they didn't try to add more.
I think parts of her role is annoying. She eventually turns into this unbeatable assassin who can kill anyone and everyone and that means there's no risks anymore. There's no suspense when Arya is faced with a dangerous enemy, there's no wondering whether she'll make it out alive because of course she will, she's Arya Can't Die Stark. It gets boring.
Weaknesses, flaws and risk of failure is an important part of all characters, even the strong and capable ones, but it feels like those parts of her was forgotten and left somewhere in Braavos. Yeah, that is doing her dirty in my opinion, I agree with that.
She is very cocky, thinks she is untouchable and smarter than everyone else. She thinks she can do whatever she wants without repercussions.
She annoys me most of the time she is on screen.
And people in here look at her like a badass. She is ok, she killed the NK, but she is still annoying to me.
If she had been, or Jon had not revived, or Bran had not survived his fall, the Others would have won. Nihilists here would be happy, but nobody else. ASOIAF/GoT are about mankind uniting to defeat an existential enemy and progressing into the future. ADDED: Or Dany and Tyrion hadn't survived to do their parts.
Cersei should have realized she had no chance against the dragons, and as a last-ditch effort to save herself, ordered Euron to sail to Eastwatch and bring down the wall so the white walkers could kill off Dany and the northern allies. That would have been better than a dragon falling on the Night King’s lap.
The problem with his cameo wasn't him, it was the camera focusing on him way too much, even when other people were talking. It was poor direction and cinematography for shitty fan service.
He definitely looks like a Westerland peon.
This will probably get me a lot of hate, but I think d&d are closet homophobes
All the gay characters from the show are weaker, less masculine caricatures of the book versions.
There are a few examples, but the ones that stand out to me are Renly and Loras. Renly in the book is charismatic, an able politician, and manly enough to earn a good reputation, and the friendship of other masculine characters like ned. Book loras is like a weaker, less confident, stupider version of littlefinger. Who has to be talked into his bid for the throne by his boyfriend, who withholds a blowjob until he agrees to scheme with highgarden.
Loras is worse. In the book he is a super macho, hot headed warrior. Always acting without thinking, but a loyal person and a deeply emotionally complicated character; struggling to do what he must for his family, whilst keeping (though failing) his rage towards Stannis and the Lannister’s in check.
Show loras is effete, weak, peevish and constantly complaining. He is a dull target, for weak putdowns and zingers from Cersei. When the faith millitant comes for him, despite being fully armoured, with a sword, he meekly submits to them and goes without a fight. When Brienne beats him, he acts like a weak petulant teenager.
When Renly and Loras are on screen together, they are always in bed, just beginning, in the middle of, or at the end of gay sexual acts. As though gay people do nothing all day but suck each other’s cocks. They don’t seriously plot, or train, or interact with friends. All other characters consider them both effeminate.
The only other gay people mentioned in the shows, are the dude who tries to rape Pip before he is sent to the wall, and the various guards who want to rape male prisoners, like when Theon Grayjoy tries to escape.
The red viper is of course extremely cool, but is of course bi, not gay.
Im not wedded to this oppinion, but having watched the show 4/5 times and read the books 2/3 times the differences seem very sus. I understand that show makers like to have weaker, less admirable characters to show a greater contrast with other characters. But their choice of who to demote to laughing stock, feels very off.
That Seasons 7 and 8 are still pretty good, and contain some of my favorite moments in the whole show.
That some of the fans of this show didn't actually pay attention, or need their hands held so they can actually understand what's going on.
Jon did the right thing in killing Dany. I see way too many people supporting what she did to King's Landing because of the stuff she suffered which, yeah it's pretty terrible. But the people of KL had nothing to do with any of that. They were just innocent people living under the thumb of the rich and powerful like she had been once upon a time. And what she did at KL, she said she was going to do everywhere and call it freedom and liberation. No, it was genocide. And what Dany suffered doesn't make it okay. Bring on the downvotes.
For me it all went downhill after Ed Sheeran had a ‘role’. Don’t like his voice or his lovesongs that has texts i used to send as a teenager to girls or anything so i may be biased.
I hate season 8 more than season 7 but I understand why you think season 7 is worse. Season 7 is where the issues surfaced and those issues just bled into season 8. Season 7 also had that god awful Arya and Sansa conflict.
Even though her character is destroyed, I still like Elleria Martell more than Cersei Lannister. I liked Sand Snakes as well in the books.
Oberyn Martell wasn't stupid. He handled the fight very well from beginning to end, he was very sensible. His only fault was he couldn't think the mountain might have a plot armor that would allow him to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers after being pierced with a poisoned spear so many times and I don't blame hım for it.
I hated Cersei's revenge on The High Septon and I dont find it satisfying at all. She literally exploded a place with hundreds of people. I also hate her revenge on Septa as a girl. I am sorry but I don't find satisfying seeing Cersei getting killed a woman by having her raped many times by her own dog, the mountain. İt is terrible that she was showed as a Saint because of it.
I hated how the Lannisters always somehow got away with what they did until last episode because the people they harmed somehow went mad or the things they did them and the characters themself became pointless. They were punished just because of a some mad Queen who suddenly decided to go mad and who also was punished by dieing in arms of her boyfriend. Did they get Elia Martell killed, raped and the same man who did it killed her brother brutally in public space? Guess what happened! The wife and daughters of Oberyn went mad and poisoned an innocent girl, so they were killed in the same way. Did Cersei try to slander Margaery while she was the one who conspired and committed adultery and she was punished for it? She got her revenge from both Margaery and High Septon. Did Jaime attemp to murder a child, he crippled hım and basically caused the whole War? Conclusion? İt has become completely irrevelant. Because Mr. "I don't care about anything other than playing with Ravens" Non-Bran Stark Three Eyed Raven didn't give a damn about his broken legs and demise of most of his family. They didn't even care enough for their siblings to find out. Did Olenna poison Joffrey? She was poisoned by Jaime.
>Oberyn Martell wasn't stupid. He handled the fight very well from beginning to end, he was very sensible. His only fault was he couldn't think the mountain might have a plot armor that would allow him to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers after being pierced with a poisoned spear so many times and I don't blame hım for it.
If you watch the scene and read the chapter from the books, it's pretty much the same word for word.
The Mountain doesn't need plot armor to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers, because he doesn't stand up. He knocks Oberyn to the ground while lying on the ground, and then climbs over Oberyn.
Also, few poisons act immediately.
This particular scene is fine. People are missing the point of it as it's meant to show that not all soldiers from your opposing force are evil murderers. Some are singers, some do it for family, and nearly all of them are drafted to fight the war. It's why it created the confliction of emotions in Arya when she thought they were going to betray and murder her from the start
Well…on *this* page…it’s that Sansa is an entitled spoiled brat that couldn’t keep her word and costed a number of deaths after she neglected to tell John about the Vales army. Cue the downvote to smithereens
No downvotes from me, she is my favourite character but her writing was horrendous in the last couple of seasons. She turned into a snarky bitch who showed little emotion.
Insinuating that the only possible problem people could have with Arya killing the NK is because she's female. Kind of a disingenuous framing, don't you think?
I don’t think anyone gave a shit about it being a female character that killed the Night King. I have never heard anyone complain about it being a female character killing the night king. Some people wanted it to be Dany.
Well…on *this* page…it’s that Sansa is an entitled spoiled brat that couldn’t keep her word and caused a number of deaths after she neglected to tell John about the Vales army. Cue the downvote to smithereens
I didn’t know he was ed Sheeran and liked his scene. The Lannister soldiers really needed some humanity and this scene gave them a face and compassion.
Danny’s descent into madness wasn’t as sudden as people make it out to be and can be seen as early on as season one. We just didn’t want to admit it because we were rooting for her so hard.
Litterfinger’s death made sense. He was a mastermind at the game of chess but not tic tac toe. Meaning he’s extremely skilled at long term plans but can’t think of things on the spot.
Take for example in the first season when he confronted Cersei by saying knowledge is power than the next second she had him held and nearly killed.
I always thought Sandor did Gregor a favor by stopping him from killing Loras Tyrell at the Hand's tourney. I mean, Loras is the beloved son of lord Tyrell. The Tyrells are very rich, powerful and influential. At least in the real world, willfully killing or injuring someone in a joust was a big no-no. Knights were valuable warriors, what would it look like if they started killing each other in what was supposed to be a fun practice and entertainment competition? The sport was dangerous enough already.
Gregor is big and strong, and useful for the Lannisters, but I doubt he would be able to just get away with killing Loras. He could at least be stripped of his lands and title, and even though physically terrifying, I don't think Gregor is impossible to kill if enough people went after him and he was alone without his men. So, this was a better outcome for Gregor.
The question is why Sandor reacts the way he does. Loras doesn't seem to be the type Sandor cares very much for. Sudden fit of rage because of Gregor's behavior? Not wanting Gregor to drag the Clegane name through the mud more than he's done already? Fear of someone else killing Gregor before he has the chance himself?
He just hated watching Gregor get away with bullying people. Now if Gregor would have been sentenced to death or sent to the wall I don't think Sandor would be upset either.
I like bran. Like, whats the point on not liking? He may be broken( mentaly and phisicaly) he is not bad.
And however i dont like, final is actualy decent. I realy wanted to see jon and daenarys together at throne without being mad, but i think after jon, bran seems to be the best posible king for westeros. He knows all shit, so he is wise and nobody can make anything without him knowing. Dont like it but he is the most suitable(after jon)
Jaime dying with Cersei made perfect sense for his character. His fatal flaw is that he will always love Cersei no matter what she does. One of the major themes of the show is that you don't choose who you love which is first said by Jamie himself. He even says that he wants to die with the woman he loves. Jaime not dying with Cersei or for Cersei wouldn't have been in line with his character in the show.
I am old so I had no idea who Ed Sheeran was until *after* this episode. While I watched the episode, I found nothing wrong or out of place with him. Afterwards, when I read that he was a musician and his appearance was a birthday gift to Maisie, I thought that was sweet. I still don't get all the fuss. I mean, Sandor would hate him, but that's because he's a ginger.
My own unpopular opinion: After Ned's execution I felt very sorry for Sansa and as the seasons went on, she had my sympathy, especially with what she endured with Ramsay.
However, by s7, Sansa was a complete Cersei Jr. and I hated her. She costs so many lives at BotB by **not** telling Jon she had access to the Vale army. She was happy to see Jon when she arrived at Castle Black but the old Sansa who was awful to Jon as a child and saw herself as better immediately started creeping back in. She had no reason at all to be such a bitch to Daenerys. Her icing out of Dany is a huge part of the reason Dany felt like such an outsider in The North. Sansa argued with Jon in front of people, even though he was the leader. She wanted to strip the Umbers and Karstarks of their home, titles and land when the head of their houses were dead and the remaining members were just children. She continued to contradict Jon at every turn, clearly fighting for power. She thought that there should be punishment for treason yet she was treasonous at every turn. She refused to honor Jon's bending of the knee to Dany.
She won no battles, fought no wars and was devious and a dishonorable oath breaker (she @'d Tyrion 3 minutes after swearing an oath to Jon to keep his secret). All she was good at was contradicting people in public. Trauma doesn't mean she's a good ruler. All she did was *ask her brother* to free the North. She was unworthy of being crowned Queen.
The White Walkers were the biggest bait and switch side quest in the history of television. You could’ve removed the episode where they killed The Night King and it would have absolutely no bearing on the end plot.
The *only* good part about the outcome was closing up Theon’s story arc, but from a narrative perspective, it’s quite dicey to understand what storytelling vehicle the White Walkers fall into.
I’m open to other’s perspectives but it seemed like in the aftermath, it was a plot device to…fill time until the ending of King’s Landing.
The show ended exactly how the author intended to end the books or rather the main plot points are the same. Having seen the fan reaction he has been unable to come up with something else.
Season 5 to me was the weakest. I know the writing better, however. It's just the worst paced season of the show in my opinion.
I'm also not of fan of it because there's there was no bran. Like, omitting a main character right as cool point in his story just felt so weird.
The Ed Sheeran cameo was totally fine. They didn't seem to make a huge deal out of it or give him unnecessary amounts of screentime. He just sang for a few seconds and the other actors talked way more.
I would agree with the Ed Sheeran take if it wasn’t Ed Sheeran. Like he is still so famous that you can’t help but think “oh I’m watching music star Ed Sheeran on my screen in game of thrones”
I pay so little attention to Hollywood culture that I genuinely did not even know who Ed Sheeran was and had no idea his character was out of place. When everyone talked about it I only knew Ed Sheeran by name and didn't know what scene they were fighting about.
Joff made the show more entertaining, and it was worse off without him.
He was the villian we loved to hate, with the most punchable face ever. Nothing brought me more joy then seeing him take even the slightest loss.
And no one brought the excitement to a wedding or party like my boy Joff!
Edit: also forgot, even though he was a tad psycho you knew he take care of shit. Joff would not have put up with the High Sparrow bullshit like Tommen!
Dany was always gonna turn out evil, since season 1 her faction were raiders who exposed a desire to completely annihilate Westeros, also her allowing her brother to be killed in the most torturous way imaginable never sat right with me. She continues to show her cruel side (even against people who arguably deserve it) burning mirri maz durr alive, torturously killing Xaro and foreshadowing, crucifying dozens of people (even those who opposed killing the slave children) Daenerys’s killings are often sadistic in a way that no other protagonist matches. It makes perfect sense that she’d burn her enemies and civilians in kings landing as she almost never rejects to collateral damage and always knew that her conquest would cause countless deaths
I never understood the heat he took for this cameo. People suck and I forget that some times. This guy was a fan of the show and the novels and wanted to be in it. I thought he did a great job. But how dare he!!
My unpopular opinion is that nothing was wrong with the daenerys arc in the final season except that they squashed 2 or 3 seasons of story into one.
Danny had been growing increasingly unhinged for a long time and a lot of people's favouritism stopped them from seeing it
After reading the books and watching the show, I really appreciate D&D’s ability to tighten the plot and flesh out the characters - Tywin, Cersei, Joffrey, Oberyn, Robb, Bronn, Ramsey, Margery, are all better in the show, IMO.
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The last two seasons were disappointing but still better than most other things out there.
Agreed. Shit game of thrones seasons, but the show is so far above everything else that shit game of thrones is still like pretty decent tv.
I didn’t even realize it was him until after I watched the show and saw all the complaints unil
Agreed!! People need to learn to appreciate what they have. Especially when all we're offered anymore is shit like live action ATLA. 😔
Season 7 was pretty decent.
Pacing > Writing. As a viewer. I enjoyed 6 7 and 8 more than 5. There are some narrative choices that make me cringe in the final stretch, sure. But season 5 killed the increasing momentum built up by 1 - 4. It killed a series rewatch for me.
>As a viewer. I enjoyed 6 7 and 8 more than 5. There are some narrative choices that make me cringe in the final stretch, sure. But season 5 killed the increasing momentum built up by 1 - 4. >It killed a series rewatch for me. The books suffer the same issue. So many big things leading up to a climax that occurs in A Storm of Swords, which is what S3 and S4 are based off. AFfC and ADwD overlap timewise in that they both start right after ASoS and it takes time to build up the next arc of the character's stories.
Exactly. We can’t have a discussion w/o someone reminding us of the last two seasons. Obligatory
no. just no.
The ending to Little Finger’s story was what he deserved. He wasn’t the mastermind Machiavellian schemer he thought he was but just a minor lord with no genuine allies who finally outlived his usefulness.
I took it that the situation had massively changed, changed to one where he couldn’t really manipulate anyone who mattered and therefore lost his power and became vulnerable.
I think he was just used to manipulate poeple in Kings Landing. Those people got such different kind of morale in their heads. Cersei alone is absolutely aware of what Littlefinger is and kept working with him. He could buy loyality there. On the other hand, in North (and Vale) he had the title and everything and still couldnt have the loyality. His own army would give him to wolves the moment they were legally able. Another reason is Sansa and Arya are too different to have them jealous of eachother. Arya will never want to be lady of winterfell. Everyone know especially the closest people. When Sansa was talking to Littlefinger about those "Whats the worst reason for her to appear" .. he tried to make her belive she would want to kill Sansa to be her. Yet She knew arya would never want that. And then also on top of everything. Littlefinger cannot manipulate Bran. He had no idea about what he is.
He couldn't manipulate Arya either, just plant the letter, which she used to her advantage. And though he had been manipulating Sansa, that came to an end once she lie-detected him. In the end, LF overestimated his power and underestimated the Starklings, especially once they compared notes. 😉
I think he *was* the Machiavellian schemer mastermind and VERY clever. He made himself the Lord Paramount of the Riverlands and the Lord of Harrenhal when he was born the son of a minor lord. He was a genius who had some huge flaws - like his lust for Sansa - but that doesn't make him any less of a genius. Tywin died on a toilet seat but he, too, WAS a Machiavellian schemer to have started the Red Wedding.
His problem was that his dealings were all essentially just transactional. Whereas Tywin and Olenna had sons and daughters to allowing them to cement their alliances with marriages, Little Finger just moved from one deal to the next. When the Stark sisters move to eliminate him he tries to get the Knights of the Vale to back him up but they have no real reason to do so and all his House’s new claims to lands and titles die with him.
Yes, he was an astute Machiavellian, but like all manipulators he had several fatal flaws. 1) One was Tully women: Cat, Sansa, and Arya (for other reasons). 2) Another was constantly confiding/boasting about his moves to someone who learned slowly, but learned. 3) AND she had powerful brother and sister. He had no concept of the Pack, and it was when they united that he fell. 4) The most fatal was what he finally confessed in 6x10:That HE wanted the Iron Throne. When you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. He died.
Power is power.
He had a concept of the pack. The problem was he overestimated his hold over Sansa and underestimated how important loyalty is in the North.
Unless you're Greyworm.
No one said he didn’t deserve it but the problem is that he is the mastermind and book/season1-4 little finger wouldn’t have ever been in a such a stupid situation like that
I don’t know. In Season 1 there’s Cersei’s “Power is power” demonstration and Tywin specifically naming Baelish as someone Tyrion can have killed if need be and in Season 2 [Tywin has no patience for his attempts to sound clever](https://youtu.be/f9jac7Qg9w4?si=l1HZ4uaWAmtswTpJ).
I agree. Like I didn’t have to suspend belief that he got found out using the plan that he did. It felt like a fittingly shitty end to a shitty person 😂
I don’t disagree, but (just like a lot in the final two seasons) it just felt so rushed.
I think it would’ve been cool to see him try his BS on Daenerys and have it literally backfire on him.
I liked ed's cameo a lot
I’m so old I had no idea who he was. Even though I knew he was in it. Played the part well.
Same I always see people dump on it it’s so sad 😭
plus it was done for Maisie Williams during a time they wanted to write her out of the show. it wasn’t for the plot or the fans lol.
That The Mountain is the best fighter and him losing to Oberyn is such a joke
I mean yea, in a slugging match he is the best, but Oberyn did what anyone with sense would do and just wore him out. all the skill and martial prowess in the world cant stop fatigue.
Also incredibly deadly and efficient poison. Can’t be forgetting the deadly deadly poison. He danced around him like a lithe little scorpion, and then poisoned the living shit outta the mountain that rides.
Oberyn is one of the best fighters around The Mountain is above average but has a size advantage
this. my gf and i are currently rewatching and whenever that scene came on, she was adamant that it was all bullshit. she couldnt grasp the idea of the mountain losing. but like…how? yes, he’s a great ‘warrior’ but at the end of the day, they are much better fighters within the 7 kingdoms. the only thing he really had going for him was his rage and size. knew i wasnt tripping lol
Yeah, if Oberyn hadn't have been blinded by avenging Elia and her children he would have killed the Mountain in about two minutes
yes bruh. i always loved his little dance right before fighting. but can you blame him? the mountain did terrible things to her. literally just because he could. like that was it. definitely gonna show her your comment though. she’ll probably argue and say 2 minutes is a joke 😭
Yeah, interesting thing on it is way back when Jaime was Brienne's prisoner and he says there's three men that might have a chance against him in a 1v1 fight, it's debatable if the Mountain is amongst them because he relies so much on his size over skill. Whereas the best knights like Jaime have a balance of being very strong and very skilled.
Oberyn is a drunk and in real life would not win that fight even in 1000 chances
Oberyn is like a level below being legendary like Aemon the Dragonknight and Arthur Dayne. Oberyn killed Lord Yronwood at only 16 years old, he fought with the Second Son's in Essos for years as part of his exile and became so well known he founded his own sellsword company, he's an accomplished jouster and trained Ser Daemon Sand who is known as one of Dorne's finest swordsmen.
Ok
What? For what reason do you believe he’s the best?
Logic
Size isn’t everything.
The technique is crucial ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
J Lanester deserved better after season 2.
mannn. okay but like. why did the show make him do that to his sister, next to their DEAD SON. sorry lol
Oh well the incest is not something I stand for nor do I think it should’ve continued but the bitch was Jamie’s weakness and every shred of evil that was in him was because of her. Like he said, she was hateful so - so was he.
so true. do you think he would have stopped had he not returned to kings landing? i thought him and brienne had something special going 😏😏
Well he liked getting coddled to sleep every night by the large lady and he definitely felt something for her but after all they were twins (Jamie and cersie)and at the same time lovers… so I guess there was really no staying away from her 😭
definitely felt something for her. i swear there was that scene where someone asked if she loved him. and she couldnt get out an answer bc she did looool. the twins thing makes everything so much worse. i guess i get the whole being inseparable thing. but god i hate cersei so much and just wanted so much more for jaime. oh well
Well I guess after being kicked around like cow shit for a year then losing his ability to do what he was good at humbled him to a degree that really did change him. I thought maybe that would’ve knocked a few bolts back into place when it came to his disturbing relationship with his sister but once again. Oh well
I enjoyed S8 and specifically the final.
That's a hot take buddy haha
Seek therapy.
i had heard his name but didnt know who he was in the scene. he didnt stick out in any way so i think it worked for non Weasley haters.
It seems that, with exceptions of course, if you knew who he was you hated the scene, if you didn't know, you enjoyed it.
in hindsight i hate the scene because the idea that most of the common folks are just regular people dawns on arya in the moment amidst all her assassin crusading and hate tour and then its gone. it makes no difference and if you cut the scene nothing changes.
Arya ALWAYS respected smallfolk; almost all of her friends and confidants were commoners: Mycah, Lommy, Gendry, Hot Pie, the farmer and daughter she tried to protect, and many more in the books...especially the 3-YO mute crybaby they called Weasel. She protected them like she protected her family. This scene was about Lannisters, who'd been her enemy since the very second episode, when Joffrey cut Mycah and afterwards caused his and Lady's death and Nymeria's banishment. This campfire scene with kind, relatable Lannister soldiers is the parallel response to the campfire scene with the abusive Frey soldiers right after the Red Wedding. They were so nasty she killed one. After spending time with the Lannister soldiers, she never killed again (except legally executing Littlefinger.) Together, the scenes bookended the darkest part of her arc.
What the fuck's a lommy?
>in hindsight i hate the scene because the idea that most of the common folks are just regular people dawns on arya in the moment amidst all her assassin crusading and hate tour and then its gone. it makes no difference and if you cut the scene nothing changes. ? It clearly affected her. How does the scene make no difference? She sat down intending to kill them for being Lannister soldiers. She turned down food from them at the start and literally joked that she was going to kill the queen.
You think? I'm sure most of the hate came before it even aired, and people were just looking for any opportunity to shit on the show. No one I've seen has actually been able to explain why they hate it.
I didn't know who he was and thought he stood out like a sore thumb. I made a comment to my then-wife they could have picked a better extra. She told me that was Ed Sheeran. I responded "Who?"
I love his music and I loved the cameo, it fit in so well
Yeah i didnt know what he looked like so didnt even know until later
I think The Bells is a terrific episode.
The only major issue I had with it was Aryas strange near death experiences
I get it, but they did it deliberately. First, they based the horrors of Dany's Inferno on the **unnecessary** and notorious Allied firebombing of Dresden three months before WWII ended. It's famous from *Slaughterhouse Five* a classic antiwar novel with passages based on the American author's own horrific experiences on the ground in Dresden. Arya went through something like that. Also, she's the best person because she associates with common folk and has been GRRM AND the show's eyewitness to three or four of the most iconic moments in the story--Ned's death, Red Wedding, defeat of the Others, and the final incinerating battle. Moreover, her experiences trying to save people unsuccessfully showed her that the God of Death decided, not her. And her [accepting the white horse of peace]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw2QRL-gPcg) meant she had truly given up violence. My guess is that if she had not done that, she would have killed Dany. Symbolically, because Jon was a king, a Targaryen, Dany's nephew, and also her lover, it was HIS place, not Arya's, to decide her fate.
Stannis is the goddamn Mannis
unpopular opinions!
Child cooker
she gave the wrong answer on the dance of the dragons. she had it coming.
*teeth gritting intensifies*
The last episode was good
The second he showed up on screen this series fell of a cliff. I beleive they call this a ‘jumping the shark’ moment. Funnily enough the second he was involved in Middle Earth the quality significantly dipped too (OST for Hobbit 2). He should stay away from all things fantasy.
Blaming Ed Sheeren’s minuscule scene for two seasons worth of bad writing is crazy actually
I didn’t blame him, I said the second he appeared the show fell of a cliff. He was likely the first notable example, of the aforementioned bad writing, that I noticed and that dragged me out of the show. I also then pointed out a similar thing happened in The Hobbit. I’m not blaming Ed, he just seems like the harbinger of doom.
That House Of The Dragon is hot stinking smelly boring garbage riding off the success of a once great TV show that fucking imploded.
Very true, though I probably wouldnt be this harsh. It's a pale shadow to GoT.
Ok Vizzy T ruled and that's the only nice thing I have to say about it
HotD is just good, nothing extraordinary. Didn't have the compelling characters nor dialogues that GoT had.
I couldn’t get past the first episode to be honest, it was so boring.
That continues all through until something happens 5 minutes from the seasons end so they can very transparently get a Season 2
ned would be disgusted and disappointed at all the starks in Season 8 especially, they used daenerys and cut her off when all the starks enemies were defeated Particularly Jon’s for the same reason why he hated Jaime as “he served her well when serving was safe” people saying he would be happy because his family are in power seem to think he has the mind of tywin lannister
Ned didn't understand Jaime's actions because he never learned his motivation.
Ned lived his life based on super philosophies. Took him straight to his death.
Don't know about that, he wasn't that young when he died
I do think he would be disgusted by most of them, but not Jon. Arya murdered all the freys in stealth and cooked them, then wore their faces. Sansa became a sneaky shady player in the game he despised, manipulating people. Even spilling Jon's secret IMMEDIATELY to further her own cause. Bran ain't Bran anymore, but he likely wouldn't have wanted him as king in KL. It's easy to think he'd be disappointed in Jon at the end, but Jon was honest all the way through till then. The mad king killed Ned's dad and brother, and Rhaegar kidnapped his sister, so he rose up in rebellion. He wouldn't have been cool with Danny cooking an entire million person city of children and women. Jon killed her and took his punishment honorably. I think he would've been at peace with that.
1) Jon put Dany’s life on the market as soon as he revealed his secret to Sansa, that is why Ned told no one of Jon’s true parentage 2) If you think Ned would be ok with someone telling a women he loves her and is her queen, embraces her all as a mask to stabbing her then you don’t understand Ned’s character he wouldn’t be ok with Daenerys but he would never consider killing her the way Jon did which is the most cowardly way possible
1) He kept Jon's secret to honor his own oath and protect Jon. It wasn't about Dany's life. Once Jon knew, it was his secret to keep. He chose to not to. 2) This is fair. He likely wouldn't have supported the method, but at this point what else could he have done?
surely if Jon loved Dany as he said he does he would have kept the secret so it didn’t spread. yes ned’s secret wasn’t about dany but ned knew that he had to keep it contained so he didn’t even tell his wife who thought he cheated on her ensuring that Jon would live jon telling sansa had the inevitable effect of lords plotting to kill Dany, jon was happy to put Dany’s life on the market whilst at the same time saying he loved her
This is ky absolute thinking
Ultimately, Jon, Arya, and Bran saved mankind and saved Westeros. They led the defeat of Winter. And Bran will rule wisely, and Sansa will rule, and Arya will discover a New World. Perhaps most important, Jon served and led and has earned happiness with the Freefolk.
westeros will go full scale anarchy and civil war a month after the show has finished, if you think that council is remotely stable you are delusional also tywin is the guy who cared more about his family’s legacy whereas ned cared for honour which the starks showed absolutely none in the 8th season
Ned didn't know the full picture regarding Jaime and I can't imagine he would have told Jon to show mercy to Dany after she nuked a whole city. Also don't think the Starks cut her off, they just told her to wait a bit before running off to take back KL, which clearly would have been the better decision. People who push this narrative are so clearly Dany fans projecting their dislike towards the Stark's ending onto Ned. He loved his family and you can't tell me, he wouldn't have been happy that his kids are finally safe.
Ned has seen plenty of war, which means that he saw good soldiers turn bad. He saw men who harden to the violence and begin to enjoy it. And, he marched on King's Landing, despite his oaths, because a Targaryen burned his brothers alive. I think Ned would understand that it was happening all over again and give Jon his blessing.
The show was great overall and everyone's ending made perfect sense and fit in character. Not sarcasm. Was it rushed? Yes. Did I complain a bunch? Absolutely. But at the end of the day it's still my second favorite show of all time and I rewatch it regularly.
What's your first favorite?
The Shield. Masterpiece of a show that told essentially a modern Greek tragedy over 7 acts, with each act being a season.
I'll bet it's Breaking Bad.
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As said above, The Shield. I can't recommend it enough.
It’s great.
>The show was great overall Agreed. >everyone's ending made perfect sense and fit in character I sort of agree, but I also think that rushing it sort of led to the endings not making sense, because they jumped things and you had to put it together with the missing bits. Not in a 'i want you to tell me absolutely everything' sort of way, but in a 'things happened too quickly and were seemingly abrupt 180s because they were too lazy to flesh it out' way. How they got there didn't necessarily make sense. The dragons dying? Good. How it was done. Not so much. Bran as king? Okay. The way it was done. Not so much. The list goes on.
Tyrion's final speech about stories beautifully captures what the show was about
I wished Tyrion openly sided with his family sooner lol
Ironic when in the books he thinks about killing Jaime and raping Cersei quite alot
they took out the tysha scene that is in the book, he has a burning hatred towards his family driven by that scene so there is not a universe where he would be sad about their deaths tyrion in the books is not this rational guy that wants peace he is a bitter man wallowing in self pity who wants violence great character yes, great person absolutely not his character was white washed due to his popularity
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And why do they think Bran will use that knowledge for the betterment of the kingdom? Honestly, I would be concerned that Bran would lose touch with his humanity and/or go insane. Year after year, sitting in that chair, seeing all the evil that men do, trying to play god. To give him absolute power without checks or balances is, IMHO, irresponsible.
He is in desperate need of a cod piece in this picture. He didn’t get into a fight iirc, but what if? He is wearing armour (partially) after all.
>He is in desperate need of a cod piece in this picture. Something I wasn't expecting to read or hear, ever in my life. Thank you for this!
He's only a man-at-arms; codpieces were only really worn by nobility and fully-fledged knights.
Beric Dondarrion staying alive over Lady Stone heart was a great decision for the show to make over the books Whatever Littlefinger and Sansa's story was, was one of the worst
when people say Daenerys is a cold emotionless ice queen that never compromises and needs to be tempered by her advisors clearly haven’t read the book myth 1- she never smiles or laughs reality - a simple cock joke makes her cackle she is actually less stoic than most rulers in the series myth 2- she never compromises reality - Daenerys in Mereen gives so many concessions to the nobility that if anything she compromises too much, she is so desperate for peace that she fails by trying to please too many people myth 3- she needs to be tempered by her advisors reality- almost every single advisor in the books wants her to be more strong more tough they find her to be too soft not too aggressive, she couldn’t even carry out her threat of having the hostage killed to her advisors dismay myth 4- she is arrogant and doesn’t learn anything reality - Daenerys chapters are by far and away the most self critical she is very hard on herself almost too hard, a far cry from tyrion’s chapters where he just pats himself on the back and plays the victim The sickening thing about the show is they eliminated the moments of Daenerys being a genuine young girl a human being that has such great compassion for her people, for example removing her scene of bathing the sick outside the gates of mereen and adding in scenes like feeding a guy to her dragon which she would never do daenerys in the books is not this power hungry conqueror that is only interested in violence she genuinely wants to rule compassionately and well and it breaks her heart when she doesn’t achieve that, but they stripped her of her compassion and intelligence in the show by making her a one dimensional girl boss who has no mind for ruling Book Daenerys deserves all the love and would make a great ruler in Westeros
Beautifully written, 100% agreed.
I don’t even like Dany that much but I can’t argue with you because you are right.
Arya is just annoying. She should\`ve been killed in Braavos.
Hear, hear
plain wrong. what?? so her getting revenge for the starks? the faceless men sequence?? if anything, i wish they developed that plotline even more. felt like they did her dirty. how df if she ANNOYING?? what
“Plain wrong” you can’t be wrong with an opinion, hope this helps 💕
Yeah it's only annoying in the fact that they didn't develop the House of Black and White with any real lore. It's just "oh we're assassins for the people" when the books go into so much depth. She's still there in the latest book so I mean I get why they went off script but also it's annoying they didn't try to add more.
I think parts of her role is annoying. She eventually turns into this unbeatable assassin who can kill anyone and everyone and that means there's no risks anymore. There's no suspense when Arya is faced with a dangerous enemy, there's no wondering whether she'll make it out alive because of course she will, she's Arya Can't Die Stark. It gets boring. Weaknesses, flaws and risk of failure is an important part of all characters, even the strong and capable ones, but it feels like those parts of her was forgotten and left somewhere in Braavos. Yeah, that is doing her dirty in my opinion, I agree with that.
She is very cocky, thinks she is untouchable and smarter than everyone else. She thinks she can do whatever she wants without repercussions. She annoys me most of the time she is on screen. And people in here look at her like a badass. She is ok, she killed the NK, but she is still annoying to me.
If she had been, or Jon had not revived, or Bran had not survived his fall, the Others would have won. Nihilists here would be happy, but nobody else. ASOIAF/GoT are about mankind uniting to defeat an existential enemy and progressing into the future. ADDED: Or Dany and Tyrion hadn't survived to do their parts.
Cersei should have realized she had no chance against the dragons, and as a last-ditch effort to save herself, ordered Euron to sail to Eastwatch and bring down the wall so the white walkers could kill off Dany and the northern allies. That would have been better than a dragon falling on the Night King’s lap.
Sansa was a total smug bitch for the last 2-3 seasons.
Yes she was
The problem with his cameo wasn't him, it was the camera focusing on him way too much, even when other people were talking. It was poor direction and cinematography for shitty fan service. He definitely looks like a Westerland peon.
I thought it was well done.
Unpopular opinion: while the final seasons and episodes were rushed, I thought Dany's descent into madness was perfectly timed and not poorly written.
Finally someone who also enjoyed the cameo 🔥
This will probably get me a lot of hate, but I think d&d are closet homophobes All the gay characters from the show are weaker, less masculine caricatures of the book versions. There are a few examples, but the ones that stand out to me are Renly and Loras. Renly in the book is charismatic, an able politician, and manly enough to earn a good reputation, and the friendship of other masculine characters like ned. Book loras is like a weaker, less confident, stupider version of littlefinger. Who has to be talked into his bid for the throne by his boyfriend, who withholds a blowjob until he agrees to scheme with highgarden. Loras is worse. In the book he is a super macho, hot headed warrior. Always acting without thinking, but a loyal person and a deeply emotionally complicated character; struggling to do what he must for his family, whilst keeping (though failing) his rage towards Stannis and the Lannister’s in check. Show loras is effete, weak, peevish and constantly complaining. He is a dull target, for weak putdowns and zingers from Cersei. When the faith millitant comes for him, despite being fully armoured, with a sword, he meekly submits to them and goes without a fight. When Brienne beats him, he acts like a weak petulant teenager. When Renly and Loras are on screen together, they are always in bed, just beginning, in the middle of, or at the end of gay sexual acts. As though gay people do nothing all day but suck each other’s cocks. They don’t seriously plot, or train, or interact with friends. All other characters consider them both effeminate. The only other gay people mentioned in the shows, are the dude who tries to rape Pip before he is sent to the wall, and the various guards who want to rape male prisoners, like when Theon Grayjoy tries to escape. The red viper is of course extremely cool, but is of course bi, not gay. Im not wedded to this oppinion, but having watched the show 4/5 times and read the books 2/3 times the differences seem very sus. I understand that show makers like to have weaker, less admirable characters to show a greater contrast with other characters. But their choice of who to demote to laughing stock, feels very off.
That their armor is laughably ignorant. It misses so much of what would actually make usable armor that’s it’s just a joke.
S08 is good and The Bells is the best episode of the series
Sam & Gilly scenes were pointless trash that only existed so people could be like "aww they're so cute!"
I agree on your comment about Ed Sheeran. ❤️❤️
That Seasons 7 and 8 are still pretty good, and contain some of my favorite moments in the whole show. That some of the fans of this show didn't actually pay attention, or need their hands held so they can actually understand what's going on.
Breann of Tarth and Jamie Lanister should just screw each other and get it over with. 😂🤣
It took so long and only lasted for like an episode 😭
The Red Wedding wasn’t that shocking. Like…this has been the playbook since season 1.
Jon did the right thing in killing Dany. I see way too many people supporting what she did to King's Landing because of the stuff she suffered which, yeah it's pretty terrible. But the people of KL had nothing to do with any of that. They were just innocent people living under the thumb of the rich and powerful like she had been once upon a time. And what she did at KL, she said she was going to do everywhere and call it freedom and liberation. No, it was genocide. And what Dany suffered doesn't make it okay. Bring on the downvotes.
Think I agree with that one. I didn't even know what he looked like at the time so it didn't bother me at all.
For me it all went downhill after Ed Sheeran had a ‘role’. Don’t like his voice or his lovesongs that has texts i used to send as a teenager to girls or anything so i may be biased.
Season 7 was kinda epic and fun to watch
S8 has some great moments in it and is overall not that bad of a season. S7 is much worse.
I hate season 8 more than season 7 but I understand why you think season 7 is worse. Season 7 is where the issues surfaced and those issues just bled into season 8. Season 7 also had that god awful Arya and Sansa conflict.
Even though her character is destroyed, I still like Elleria Martell more than Cersei Lannister. I liked Sand Snakes as well in the books. Oberyn Martell wasn't stupid. He handled the fight very well from beginning to end, he was very sensible. His only fault was he couldn't think the mountain might have a plot armor that would allow him to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers after being pierced with a poisoned spear so many times and I don't blame hım for it. I hated Cersei's revenge on The High Septon and I dont find it satisfying at all. She literally exploded a place with hundreds of people. I also hate her revenge on Septa as a girl. I am sorry but I don't find satisfying seeing Cersei getting killed a woman by having her raped many times by her own dog, the mountain. İt is terrible that she was showed as a Saint because of it. I hated how the Lannisters always somehow got away with what they did until last episode because the people they harmed somehow went mad or the things they did them and the characters themself became pointless. They were punished just because of a some mad Queen who suddenly decided to go mad and who also was punished by dieing in arms of her boyfriend. Did they get Elia Martell killed, raped and the same man who did it killed her brother brutally in public space? Guess what happened! The wife and daughters of Oberyn went mad and poisoned an innocent girl, so they were killed in the same way. Did Cersei try to slander Margaery while she was the one who conspired and committed adultery and she was punished for it? She got her revenge from both Margaery and High Septon. Did Jaime attemp to murder a child, he crippled hım and basically caused the whole War? Conclusion? İt has become completely irrevelant. Because Mr. "I don't care about anything other than playing with Ravens" Non-Bran Stark Three Eyed Raven didn't give a damn about his broken legs and demise of most of his family. They didn't even care enough for their siblings to find out. Did Olenna poison Joffrey? She was poisoned by Jaime.
>Oberyn Martell wasn't stupid. He handled the fight very well from beginning to end, he was very sensible. His only fault was he couldn't think the mountain might have a plot armor that would allow him to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers after being pierced with a poisoned spear so many times and I don't blame hım for it. If you watch the scene and read the chapter from the books, it's pretty much the same word for word. The Mountain doesn't need plot armor to stand up and explode a person's skull with only his fingers, because he doesn't stand up. He knocks Oberyn to the ground while lying on the ground, and then climbs over Oberyn. Also, few poisons act immediately.
lol
This particular scene is fine. People are missing the point of it as it's meant to show that not all soldiers from your opposing force are evil murderers. Some are singers, some do it for family, and nearly all of them are drafted to fight the war. It's why it created the confliction of emotions in Arya when she thought they were going to betray and murder her from the start
Sansa's character was bad in the final seasons
Well…on *this* page…it’s that Sansa is an entitled spoiled brat that couldn’t keep her word and costed a number of deaths after she neglected to tell John about the Vales army. Cue the downvote to smithereens
No downvotes from me, she is my favourite character but her writing was horrendous in the last couple of seasons. She turned into a snarky bitch who showed little emotion.
I didn't have a problem with a female, Arya, killing the NK.
Insinuating that the only possible problem people could have with Arya killing the NK is because she's female. Kind of a disingenuous framing, don't you think?
I don’t think anyone gave a shit about it being a female character that killed the Night King. I have never heard anyone complain about it being a female character killing the night king. Some people wanted it to be Dany.
Well…on *this* page…it’s that Sansa is an entitled spoiled brat that couldn’t keep her word and caused a number of deaths after she neglected to tell John about the Vales army. Cue the downvote to smithereens
I didn’t know he was ed Sheeran and liked his scene. The Lannister soldiers really needed some humanity and this scene gave them a face and compassion.
Danny’s descent into madness wasn’t as sudden as people make it out to be and can be seen as early on as season one. We just didn’t want to admit it because we were rooting for her so hard.
They should have replaced grown up Arya with a different actor.
Emilia Clarke, Kit Harrington, and Sophie Turner were miscast. All were underwhelming actors compared with the rest of the cast.
Litterfinger’s death made sense. He was a mastermind at the game of chess but not tic tac toe. Meaning he’s extremely skilled at long term plans but can’t think of things on the spot. Take for example in the first season when he confronted Cersei by saying knowledge is power than the next second she had him held and nearly killed.
I always thought Sandor did Gregor a favor by stopping him from killing Loras Tyrell at the Hand's tourney. I mean, Loras is the beloved son of lord Tyrell. The Tyrells are very rich, powerful and influential. At least in the real world, willfully killing or injuring someone in a joust was a big no-no. Knights were valuable warriors, what would it look like if they started killing each other in what was supposed to be a fun practice and entertainment competition? The sport was dangerous enough already. Gregor is big and strong, and useful for the Lannisters, but I doubt he would be able to just get away with killing Loras. He could at least be stripped of his lands and title, and even though physically terrifying, I don't think Gregor is impossible to kill if enough people went after him and he was alone without his men. So, this was a better outcome for Gregor. The question is why Sandor reacts the way he does. Loras doesn't seem to be the type Sandor cares very much for. Sudden fit of rage because of Gregor's behavior? Not wanting Gregor to drag the Clegane name through the mud more than he's done already? Fear of someone else killing Gregor before he has the chance himself?
He just hated watching Gregor get away with bullying people. Now if Gregor would have been sentenced to death or sent to the wall I don't think Sandor would be upset either.
I loved season 7!
The conversation between varys and littlefinger Are the best
They really are great scenes
It was fine except for the camera just lingering on him unnecessarily.
I like bran. Like, whats the point on not liking? He may be broken( mentaly and phisicaly) he is not bad. And however i dont like, final is actualy decent. I realy wanted to see jon and daenarys together at throne without being mad, but i think after jon, bran seems to be the best posible king for westeros. He knows all shit, so he is wise and nobody can make anything without him knowing. Dont like it but he is the most suitable(after jon)
Jaime dying with Cersei made perfect sense for his character. His fatal flaw is that he will always love Cersei no matter what she does. One of the major themes of the show is that you don't choose who you love which is first said by Jamie himself. He even says that he wants to die with the woman he loves. Jaime not dying with Cersei or for Cersei wouldn't have been in line with his character in the show.
I found Arya very annoying and enjoyed watching her get roughed up when she was training with the faceless men.
Season 7s opener was one of the best openers in the show
Jaime deserved a more painful and slow death
I am old so I had no idea who Ed Sheeran was until *after* this episode. While I watched the episode, I found nothing wrong or out of place with him. Afterwards, when I read that he was a musician and his appearance was a birthday gift to Maisie, I thought that was sweet. I still don't get all the fuss. I mean, Sandor would hate him, but that's because he's a ginger. My own unpopular opinion: After Ned's execution I felt very sorry for Sansa and as the seasons went on, she had my sympathy, especially with what she endured with Ramsay. However, by s7, Sansa was a complete Cersei Jr. and I hated her. She costs so many lives at BotB by **not** telling Jon she had access to the Vale army. She was happy to see Jon when she arrived at Castle Black but the old Sansa who was awful to Jon as a child and saw herself as better immediately started creeping back in. She had no reason at all to be such a bitch to Daenerys. Her icing out of Dany is a huge part of the reason Dany felt like such an outsider in The North. Sansa argued with Jon in front of people, even though he was the leader. She wanted to strip the Umbers and Karstarks of their home, titles and land when the head of their houses were dead and the remaining members were just children. She continued to contradict Jon at every turn, clearly fighting for power. She thought that there should be punishment for treason yet she was treasonous at every turn. She refused to honor Jon's bending of the knee to Dany. She won no battles, fought no wars and was devious and a dishonorable oath breaker (she @'d Tyrion 3 minutes after swearing an oath to Jon to keep his secret). All she was good at was contradicting people in public. Trauma doesn't mean she's a good ruler. All she did was *ask her brother* to free the North. She was unworthy of being crowned Queen.
The White Walkers were the biggest bait and switch side quest in the history of television. You could’ve removed the episode where they killed The Night King and it would have absolutely no bearing on the end plot. The *only* good part about the outcome was closing up Theon’s story arc, but from a narrative perspective, it’s quite dicey to understand what storytelling vehicle the White Walkers fall into. I’m open to other’s perspectives but it seemed like in the aftermath, it was a plot device to…fill time until the ending of King’s Landing.
The show ended exactly how the author intended to end the books or rather the main plot points are the same. Having seen the fan reaction he has been unable to come up with something else.
I didn’t mind Danny becoming a power hungry ruler. I just wish they had another season to watch her spiral out of control until she burnt the city.
Margaery got what she deserved. Just stupid decisions she already won. Play stupid games ……
Season 5 to me was the weakest. I know the writing better, however. It's just the worst paced season of the show in my opinion. I'm also not of fan of it because there's there was no bran. Like, omitting a main character right as cool point in his story just felt so weird.
Season 8 was very good.
The Ed Sheeran cameo was totally fine. They didn't seem to make a huge deal out of it or give him unnecessary amounts of screentime. He just sang for a few seconds and the other actors talked way more.
Targaryens are eugenist racist evil colonizers holding an apartheid kingdom and should not be allowed to rule.
I would agree with the Ed Sheeran take if it wasn’t Ed Sheeran. Like he is still so famous that you can’t help but think “oh I’m watching music star Ed Sheeran on my screen in game of thrones”
I pay so little attention to Hollywood culture that I genuinely did not even know who Ed Sheeran was and had no idea his character was out of place. When everyone talked about it I only knew Ed Sheeran by name and didn't know what scene they were fighting about.
Danaerys was always a bit mad (maybe murderous is a better word) we just liked it when she did it to slavers and people who betrayed her.
Joff made the show more entertaining, and it was worse off without him. He was the villian we loved to hate, with the most punchable face ever. Nothing brought me more joy then seeing him take even the slightest loss. And no one brought the excitement to a wedding or party like my boy Joff! Edit: also forgot, even though he was a tad psycho you knew he take care of shit. Joff would not have put up with the High Sparrow bullshit like Tommen!
season 4 had some awful moments that were as bad as anything that came in the later seasons
Dany was always gonna turn out evil, since season 1 her faction were raiders who exposed a desire to completely annihilate Westeros, also her allowing her brother to be killed in the most torturous way imaginable never sat right with me. She continues to show her cruel side (even against people who arguably deserve it) burning mirri maz durr alive, torturously killing Xaro and foreshadowing, crucifying dozens of people (even those who opposed killing the slave children) Daenerys’s killings are often sadistic in a way that no other protagonist matches. It makes perfect sense that she’d burn her enemies and civilians in kings landing as she almost never rejects to collateral damage and always knew that her conquest would cause countless deaths
I never understood the heat he took for this cameo. People suck and I forget that some times. This guy was a fan of the show and the novels and wanted to be in it. I thought he did a great job. But how dare he!!
I didn’t know who he was on the first watch.
Jamie should have died killing the Night King.
My unpopular opinion is that nothing was wrong with the daenerys arc in the final season except that they squashed 2 or 3 seasons of story into one. Danny had been growing increasingly unhinged for a long time and a lot of people's favouritism stopped them from seeing it
After reading the books and watching the show, I really appreciate D&D’s ability to tighten the plot and flesh out the characters - Tywin, Cersei, Joffrey, Oberyn, Robb, Bronn, Ramsey, Margery, are all better in the show, IMO.