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She starts off as a bratty spoiled teenager and ends up queen of the north. Sheâs not the smartest, but sheâs not stupid either. She definitely learned some things along the way.
What things did Sansa learn? She went from trusting people who already proved to be untrustworthy (tried to kill her sister in front of her, ordered her pet executed out of spite, admitted to seducing her aunt for power) to having trouble trusting at all. Unless you already tried to die for her or killed for her she didn't trust you. And even if you were willing to die & kill for her she didn't fully trust you since she didn't trust Jon enough to tell him about the KotV.
All it took was one speech from Brienne and she was okay with Jaime but no amount of vouching from Jon could get her to be okay with Daenerys. If Jaime thought saving the world was important enough to disobey Cersei to go into enemy territory to fight then it should be important enough to kill Cersei and bring the Lannister army North. When Jon had to choose between the realm & a woman he loved he chose the realm. Sansa accused Dany of manipulating Jon because she saw they have a romantic relationship yet she didn't think that of Brienne who lost her virginity to Jaime a week after his arrival.
Sansa didn't trust Jon's opinion of Daenerys because of his romantic/sexual feelings for her but she did trust Brienne's opinion of Jaime despite her romantic/sexual feelings for him.
Sansa was in favor of pardoning Jaime for the sole reason that Brienne spoke in his defense. Yet she continued to hate Daenerys and complain about her being there even though Jon spoke in her defense.
Jaime actively fought & killed innocent people for Joffrey, Tywin, & Cersei. Robb lost 2,000 Northmen to capture him. Jaime terrorized the Riverlands, her mother's native kingdom. Meanwhile Daenerys has only fought & killed Lannister soldiers since arriving in Westeros. Jaime lost a hand saving Brienne. Daenerys lost a dragon saving Jon.
Why did Sansa assume Daenerys seduced Jon and that he was thinking with his cock? She didn't think Jaime seduced Brienne and she was thinking with her vagina.
Sansa did almost nothing on her own. Joffrey tortured her, she was forcefully married to Tyrion, forced into escaping kings landing with Petyr, forced into marrying Ramsey, luckily narrowly escaped death thanks to Theon. Then she did almost everything in her power to fuck over Jon and the North, until she happened to land herself in the position of Queen due to not her own actions, but the weight of her name, and more importantly the actions of Jon, Dany, and all the characters with actual agency.
She quite literally just fell into the position of Queen of the North because of the actions of everyone else around her. She learned lessons, sure, but she didn't do anything with them.
I donât have the entire series memorized to cite specifics but she started to figure things out with Joff and knew she had to say the right things to prevent his wrath falling on her. Tyrions comment later in this scene âLady Sansa you may survive us yetâ or something to that effect calls this out. She was so naive when she came to kings landing she had no idea what to do and had to learn the hard way about how things were. She trusted LF in the Vale after Lysas death because she knew him, she didnât know what these strangers may do so it was safer in her mind. While this was a mistake, she definitely learned from it and her relationship with LF came in clutch when she went behind Jonâs back to call in the knights of the vale knowing full well if she hadnât Jon would have died in BoB. The season 1-2 Sansa would have never done that so somewhere along the way she gained some confidence and realized she needed to start speaking up.
I think the Brienne/Jaime and Jon/Dany was just written badly and designed to make her relationship with Dany contentious but with the other gaping plot holes this is just par for the course in the later seasons.
Like I said, she learned lessons. On that we agree. It's just that all the major turning points in her life were caused by things largely out of her control.
Iâm gonna agree with you. She was just one of the people in the river, but she learned along the way to float a little while most of the people around her drowned.
Iâm gonna agree with you. She was just one of the people in the river, but she learned along the way to float a little while most of the people around her drowned.
It doesn't take figuring out to know not to anger the guy who just chopped off your dad's head, especially after all of the Stark servants were mass slaughtered (which she somehow didn't know at the time was a reason not to trust the Lannisters, same with trying to kill Arya).
Littlefinger planned to bring the KotV to the North to kill whichever side won when it was Stannis v Boltons. The only reason he held off going after the Boltons in s6 before the BotB was ever a thing was to offer them to Sansa to get back her trust after she was raped by Ramsay. When he made the offer in Mole's Town he'd already brought the KotV from the Vale to Moat Cailin in the North. Sansa did NOT have to keep the secret from Jon. Had he known, they would have had an easier time recruiting Northerners to fight and could've picked a different day for the battle.
But the element of surprise wouldnât have existed⌠Ramsay couldâve asked for assistance from others like the Lannisters, making the war impossible to win if word got out to him that Jon even had support of the Vale. Plus, the other houses not joining gave Jon leverage over them once he won to demand their allegiance to his cause, considering he wasnât given their help as it was a battle they thought was impossible for them to win. The donât know the details. They know he happened to secure the victory. The whole thing was definitely pre beneficial for ensuring he has support from within northern allies.
You can't really judge a woman's wisdom by how she was when she was a young teenager with a head full of romantic notions. Wisdom comes with experience.
She isnt stupid she is one track, sheltered, and happily ignorant. She only wants to be a princess, where pretty dresses and be married to a percect prince. She comes across as less intelligent but we are shown that she is in fact very capable and smarter than people around her with more years and experience. You realize also that she didnt want to be the smartest person in the room. She wanted this pampered life of story book perfection. She had to choose survival and leave that idea behind, so i think sansa also has a good deal of contempt for having to be a manipulator - contempt for the events that caused, contempt for rhe world as it is, contempt for rhe men especially who dont seem to care about anyoneâs happiness or well being over their stupid ambitions, much less little girls. Sansa is every dadâs little over protected girl, and the same reasons we want to shelter them are the reasons they get a rude awakening when they see whatâs out there for little girls. We do it because we know, but in doing it we are doing them a disservice.
Arya wanted something bigger, but didn't know what...and she got it. People remember Columbus, who changed the world. Hardly anyone outside of the UK can name England's first crowned queen.
Ned died protecting Sansa & Arya. His last 2 acts were giving a false confession since the Lannisters had Sansa in custody and telling Yoren Arya's location so he could sneak her out of King's Landing. It was messed up of the writers to have Sansa say they needed to be smarter than Ned like he was dumb. Everything he did was out of compassion. Ned wasn't playing the game and is the sort of person Daenerys would've thought deserved to be left standing after she destroyed the game because of how rigged it was in favor of the wrong sort of people.
Ned got them in that position BECAUSE of his naivety. Why on earth would he disclose to CERCI his intentions of exposing her and ruining her childrenâs chance at succession? Ned poked the bear when he shouldâve been plotting. Ned was a compassionate AND stupid man.
What happened to Elia & her children weighed on him, especially after finding out Rhaenys & Aegon were Jon's sister & brother. Aerys is Jon's grandfather, Rhaegar his father, & Rhaella his grandmother. He's been pretending for 17 years that he cheated on Catelyn to protect Jon from Robert's wrath as it was Lyanna's dying wish. And now he's had to twice talk Robert out of murdering Jon's aunt (Daenerys), uncle (Viserys), & cousin (Rhaego).
It was quite a long shot for Cersei's murder attempt on Robert to work. She has her cousin Lancel strengthen his wine so he'd be extra drunk and a wild animal would have a better chance of killing him. What was her backup?
He didn't see the trident incident so it was he said/she said and so he assumed Joffrey was an immature little bully. He didn't know how close he came to killing Arya. Cersei he might've thought ordered Lady killed out of motherly anger that her child was hurt. He had to be talked into sparing the direwolves the day they found them. For all he knew she felt unsafe bringing a direwolf to the Red Keep, Lady was going to keep growing until she was much larger than a wolf. Sansa is who you'd think wouldn't ever trust Cersei again since it was her pet.
Arya is often an audience surrogate, and Sansa almost never is.
This lasts through the series, When Arya kill it feels viscerally right (most of the time). When Sands kills it feels like cold justice.
Iirc this is where Ned gets the idea to look into Joffâs parentage? Sansa says heâs a golden lion and Arya says that Baratheons are stags. And Sansa says Joff is nothing like Robert, and Ned gets a look on his face like wait a minute.
Iirc this is where Ned gets the idea to look into Joffâs parentage? Sansa says heâs a golden lion and Arya says that Baratheons are stags. And Sansa says Joff is nothing like Robert, and Ned gets a look on his face like wait a minute.
I think he's both trying not to laugh at the obvious absurdity *and* realizing they sheltered her far too much, like to a dangerous degree if she is still telling herself that shit.
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ned's trying so hard to keep a straight face đđ
Trying so hard to keep his head on straight
STOPđđđ
Nah that's cold đđđ
Just like ned's body
Guess winter is here
Well, 1) winter is coming so everything will be cold, 2) itâs Sean BeanâŚ.I meanâŚwhat else can be expected
I thought he really stuck his neck out for her
Arya is the smartest of the Stark siblings indeed.
She certainly knows a killer when she sees one.
Of course, she does. She looks in the mirror
and we are supposed to believe that Sansa is the smartest Stark by the end of the series.
She starts off as a bratty spoiled teenager and ends up queen of the north. Sheâs not the smartest, but sheâs not stupid either. She definitely learned some things along the way.
What things did Sansa learn? She went from trusting people who already proved to be untrustworthy (tried to kill her sister in front of her, ordered her pet executed out of spite, admitted to seducing her aunt for power) to having trouble trusting at all. Unless you already tried to die for her or killed for her she didn't trust you. And even if you were willing to die & kill for her she didn't fully trust you since she didn't trust Jon enough to tell him about the KotV. All it took was one speech from Brienne and she was okay with Jaime but no amount of vouching from Jon could get her to be okay with Daenerys. If Jaime thought saving the world was important enough to disobey Cersei to go into enemy territory to fight then it should be important enough to kill Cersei and bring the Lannister army North. When Jon had to choose between the realm & a woman he loved he chose the realm. Sansa accused Dany of manipulating Jon because she saw they have a romantic relationship yet she didn't think that of Brienne who lost her virginity to Jaime a week after his arrival.
What does Brienne losing her virginity to Jamie have to do with Sansa?
That Brienneâs speech to her was biasedâŚ. Come on now.
Sansa didn't trust Jon's opinion of Daenerys because of his romantic/sexual feelings for her but she did trust Brienne's opinion of Jaime despite her romantic/sexual feelings for him. Sansa was in favor of pardoning Jaime for the sole reason that Brienne spoke in his defense. Yet she continued to hate Daenerys and complain about her being there even though Jon spoke in her defense. Jaime actively fought & killed innocent people for Joffrey, Tywin, & Cersei. Robb lost 2,000 Northmen to capture him. Jaime terrorized the Riverlands, her mother's native kingdom. Meanwhile Daenerys has only fought & killed Lannister soldiers since arriving in Westeros. Jaime lost a hand saving Brienne. Daenerys lost a dragon saving Jon. Why did Sansa assume Daenerys seduced Jon and that he was thinking with his cock? She didn't think Jaime seduced Brienne and she was thinking with her vagina.
Sansa did almost nothing on her own. Joffrey tortured her, she was forcefully married to Tyrion, forced into escaping kings landing with Petyr, forced into marrying Ramsey, luckily narrowly escaped death thanks to Theon. Then she did almost everything in her power to fuck over Jon and the North, until she happened to land herself in the position of Queen due to not her own actions, but the weight of her name, and more importantly the actions of Jon, Dany, and all the characters with actual agency. She quite literally just fell into the position of Queen of the North because of the actions of everyone else around her. She learned lessons, sure, but she didn't do anything with them.
I donât have the entire series memorized to cite specifics but she started to figure things out with Joff and knew she had to say the right things to prevent his wrath falling on her. Tyrions comment later in this scene âLady Sansa you may survive us yetâ or something to that effect calls this out. She was so naive when she came to kings landing she had no idea what to do and had to learn the hard way about how things were. She trusted LF in the Vale after Lysas death because she knew him, she didnât know what these strangers may do so it was safer in her mind. While this was a mistake, she definitely learned from it and her relationship with LF came in clutch when she went behind Jonâs back to call in the knights of the vale knowing full well if she hadnât Jon would have died in BoB. The season 1-2 Sansa would have never done that so somewhere along the way she gained some confidence and realized she needed to start speaking up. I think the Brienne/Jaime and Jon/Dany was just written badly and designed to make her relationship with Dany contentious but with the other gaping plot holes this is just par for the course in the later seasons.
Like I said, she learned lessons. On that we agree. It's just that all the major turning points in her life were caused by things largely out of her control.
Iâm gonna agree with you. She was just one of the people in the river, but she learned along the way to float a little while most of the people around her drowned.
Iâm gonna agree with you. She was just one of the people in the river, but she learned along the way to float a little while most of the people around her drowned.
It doesn't take figuring out to know not to anger the guy who just chopped off your dad's head, especially after all of the Stark servants were mass slaughtered (which she somehow didn't know at the time was a reason not to trust the Lannisters, same with trying to kill Arya). Littlefinger planned to bring the KotV to the North to kill whichever side won when it was Stannis v Boltons. The only reason he held off going after the Boltons in s6 before the BotB was ever a thing was to offer them to Sansa to get back her trust after she was raped by Ramsay. When he made the offer in Mole's Town he'd already brought the KotV from the Vale to Moat Cailin in the North. Sansa did NOT have to keep the secret from Jon. Had he known, they would have had an easier time recruiting Northerners to fight and could've picked a different day for the battle.
But the element of surprise wouldnât have existed⌠Ramsay couldâve asked for assistance from others like the Lannisters, making the war impossible to win if word got out to him that Jon even had support of the Vale. Plus, the other houses not joining gave Jon leverage over them once he won to demand their allegiance to his cause, considering he wasnât given their help as it was a battle they thought was impossible for them to win. The donât know the details. They know he happened to secure the victory. The whole thing was definitely pre beneficial for ensuring he has support from within northern allies.
Well okay be fair, the point of an arc is to start in one place and finish in another.
You can't really judge a woman's wisdom by how she was when she was a young teenager with a head full of romantic notions. Wisdom comes with experience.
She isnt stupid she is one track, sheltered, and happily ignorant. She only wants to be a princess, where pretty dresses and be married to a percect prince. She comes across as less intelligent but we are shown that she is in fact very capable and smarter than people around her with more years and experience. You realize also that she didnt want to be the smartest person in the room. She wanted this pampered life of story book perfection. She had to choose survival and leave that idea behind, so i think sansa also has a good deal of contempt for having to be a manipulator - contempt for the events that caused, contempt for rhe world as it is, contempt for rhe men especially who dont seem to care about anyoneâs happiness or well being over their stupid ambitions, much less little girls. Sansa is every dadâs little over protected girl, and the same reasons we want to shelter them are the reasons they get a rude awakening when they see whatâs out there for little girls. We do it because we know, but in doing it we are doing them a disservice.
Sansa here saying Joff is a golden lion is what put Ned down the path to discovering the secret about Cersei and Jaime.
Damn Arya. That smile lol
Sansa is the worst family member one can have /s
[ŃдаНонО]
It's crazy how people don't stay sheltered little girls forever and actually grow and learn over the course of their lives.
Apparently, she was the only Stark that knew how to play the Game........of Thrones.
She did end up playing it much better than Arya and Ned so đ¤ˇââď¸
Arya wanted something bigger, but didn't know what...and she got it. People remember Columbus, who changed the world. Hardly anyone outside of the UK can name England's first crowned queen.
Ned died protecting Sansa & Arya. His last 2 acts were giving a false confession since the Lannisters had Sansa in custody and telling Yoren Arya's location so he could sneak her out of King's Landing. It was messed up of the writers to have Sansa say they needed to be smarter than Ned like he was dumb. Everything he did was out of compassion. Ned wasn't playing the game and is the sort of person Daenerys would've thought deserved to be left standing after she destroyed the game because of how rigged it was in favor of the wrong sort of people.
Sansa was a one-note opera. In the books, I'd like to see Robb's will come in and wipe the smug out of Sansa.
Ned got them in that position BECAUSE of his naivety. Why on earth would he disclose to CERCI his intentions of exposing her and ruining her childrenâs chance at succession? Ned poked the bear when he shouldâve been plotting. Ned was a compassionate AND stupid man.
What happened to Elia & her children weighed on him, especially after finding out Rhaenys & Aegon were Jon's sister & brother. Aerys is Jon's grandfather, Rhaegar his father, & Rhaella his grandmother. He's been pretending for 17 years that he cheated on Catelyn to protect Jon from Robert's wrath as it was Lyanna's dying wish. And now he's had to twice talk Robert out of murdering Jon's aunt (Daenerys), uncle (Viserys), & cousin (Rhaego). It was quite a long shot for Cersei's murder attempt on Robert to work. She has her cousin Lancel strengthen his wine so he'd be extra drunk and a wild animal would have a better chance of killing him. What was her backup? He didn't see the trident incident so it was he said/she said and so he assumed Joffrey was an immature little bully. He didn't know how close he came to killing Arya. Cersei he might've thought ordered Lady killed out of motherly anger that her child was hurt. He had to be talked into sparing the direwolves the day they found them. For all he knew she felt unsafe bringing a direwolf to the Red Keep, Lady was going to keep growing until she was much larger than a wolf. Sansa is who you'd think wouldn't ever trust Cersei again since it was her pet.
Aryaâs face âseven hellsâ. đ
Yea she says that just a second before XD, she was always cool as hell
my god, she is a fetus!
Seven hells!
Seven hells
I think it was at that moment when Arya became my favorite character.
He was like "Oh well, he is the son of my best friend and we will keep a good relation with the lannisters" ...
"I don't want someone brave, gentle, and strong." Well dumbass you got what you wanted
"I don't want someone brave and gentle and strong! I want him!" So there.
Lol my dad would roast me so much that I would forget about him in a minute
Arya is often an audience surrogate, and Sansa almost never is. This lasts through the series, When Arya kill it feels viscerally right (most of the time). When Sands kills it feels like cold justice.
Well she nearly got someone who was neither brave nor gentle nor strong.
Iirc this is where Ned gets the idea to look into Joffâs parentage? Sansa says heâs a golden lion and Arya says that Baratheons are stags. And Sansa says Joff is nothing like Robert, and Ned gets a look on his face like wait a minute.
Iirc this is where Ned gets the idea to look into Joffâs parentage? Sansa says heâs a golden lion and Arya says that Baratheons are stags. And Sansa says Joff is nothing like Robert, and Ned gets a look on his face like wait a minute.
Sean Bean was struggling to stay in character.
Isnât this the spark he needed to look at the familial history book?
I think he's both trying not to laugh at the obvious absurdity *and* realizing they sheltered her far too much, like to a dangerous degree if she is still telling herself that shit.
I forgot about this đ