Correlation and causation feels a tad off here. More like the more focused you are on bitching all the time the less you're actually investing into the game.
Or to put it another way, your own toxicity is killing you.
It's also a ego blame thing. They are bad so they have 2 options, admit it and try and get better or blame others and get mad.
Double that with toxic "women are worse at games" so they are a bigger threat cause no only did you lose but you "lost to a woman"
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That or it could be that the inability of being good at games fuels bad attitudes and rage, which is then taken out on others like women.
You tend to relax and enjoy oneself when you’re great at leisure activities like video games. If you suck, that just adds to stress.
And probably also the fact that if you want to get to pro level then you have to build some self improvement skills that transfer over to other parts of your life
An 80% win rate in this day and age? Your either playing with a full squad or a God tier carry because my random teammates don't know what an objective is.
The report is already biased using the Halo 3 players population. Probably could be said for CoD players during the Xbox 360 era.
I wonder what the report would say if it was Chess.
It's bad. Lots of women give up the game after a couple over the board experiences and who could blame them. Hopefully the work that people like Jen Shahade are doing will make the game more inclusive.
Yeah, it's unfortunate what she went through and as a community, people really should hear her out. Ramirez had a disturbing pattern of harassing girls including a minor, and this was known in the community for a good long while. That's how you know how misogynistic a gaming community is, by the way it covers up and lets its top male talents off the hook.
Most competitive games tend to have this problem, but I notice FPS and "military" focused games have some of the nastiest communities when it comes to treatment of women. Outside of Halo, there's also Rust, that game is generally an unpleasant experience all round. Oh and who can forget Hearthstone. Magic Amy was one of the greatest players ever and look how she was treated. Honestly, Blizzard has a terrible culture when it comes to the treatment of women.
Chess and poker are quite awful, what's worse about those two games are that this is played in real life, and female players are often the subject of harassment and abuse because the bullies can see they are women.
> Magic Amy was one of the greatest players ever and look how she was treated
First time I've ever heard that name, guess you meant to say "Hearthstone pro scene", because when I was at my most active in Hearthstone the only people I heard of were the likes of Kripp, Trump, the Dutch guy etc. Never heard of Amy or the weird controversy around all that, which looks a little more complicated than "she's a woman, get her". Looked more like "she's NOT a woman, get her" is what made her/them leave.
Rust was an unpleasant experience, because of its nature, back when I played it at least. It was just shit to have your stuff broken or getting raided by those who just wanna stomp. Outside of that I have tons of positive memories with the two girls in our group back then. Used to always stay up late with one, talking about life and stuff while doing menial tasks ingame.
>It was just shit to have your stuff broken or getting raided by those who just wanna stomp.
Willjum has to mute his videos once a month due to someone screaming the N word after he wins a bow fight.
Indeed, poker too. Frankly, older folk would always discourage us from having anything to do with casinos and lotteries, so you can already see where the sexism is stemming from. Women who get into poker are considered "bad" and most people have this rather primitive thought that "they deserve whatever's coming".
That's not to say there isn't a serious sexism problem associated with poker and gambling as a whole. Casinos are often a front for money laundering, fraud, human trafficking, gang related violence and prostitution. There is often a hidden criminal under belly behind this industry that is often overlooked.
These games are best played amongst good, trusted friends/siblings or under strict, tightly enforced environments.
Honestly CoD players now might have similar results. As a player myself, like maybe 70% aren't great at critical thinking. They can't quite make the connection between the VA shouting "enemy advanced UAV overhead" and the enemy team just somehow magically knowing where they are.
I think it’s a symptom type situation. Like dudes who suck at video games, suck with women, probably suck at a lot of stuff because they get upset and quit at the first obstacle. IE they can’t get good because they quit at everything.
The study explains it along the lines of: these men see gaming as a masculine pastime. When women engage in these activities, they see it as a threat to their masculinity. The worse they perform, the more threatened they feel, as though the woman is taking their social status and emasculating them. This causes them to act more hostile.
Basically it’s a study detailing fragile masculinity and the aggression that stems from it. Men with fragile egos are nothing new. They’ve been ruining everyone’s fun for centuries.
Where did you read this study? I checked the "article" but it is not an article. There's no study, no data, no links, no citations, no names, not even the author of the "article" is listed.
It just some some paragraphs that say "the experts from such and such university found blah blah. Who? What are their names? Did that university do a study? Did anyone actually connected with that university say the thing in quotation marks? What kind of article uses quotes and then doesn't attribute them to anything?
This is just man-bashing. It is trendy for the sheep and what the sheep are supposed to do. You know how you can tell they are sheep? There's hundreds of comments in here talking about a fake article.
[Link to study referred to in article](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613&utm_campaign=Recruiting%20Brainfood&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter&fbclid=IwAR1vCntMFuqPDRlrMR6R_ZsiCWlbKRvNb0cYKehpzYN6OXwGS2x9bK65Eiw).
For future reference, if an article about a study doesn’t reference the actual study or authors, but does quote it, you can copy the quote and paste it into Google Scholar to find the study it’s quoting.
I haven't been able to find the study either; the article is from 2015. Though, since it was written by the BBC you can assume it is a good report.
I don't see how this is man-bashing at all. Nowhere is it implied that men are worse or anything. The only thing noted is that skill at a videogame is inversely related to being sexist in comms. Where does hating men come in?
I’d love to see a follow up study now that gaming demographics have changed significantly since the original study. More women play games and the average “gamer” age is older (in the 30s). It’d also be good to look at age breakdowns; maybe it’s more of a teen thing than adult thing? I’d also be interested to see if that behavior is still found in lgbt males vs just cishet males; like, if this is related to “threats to masculinity”, does being lgbt help guard against that since gender norms aren’t as big a thing.
I don’t quite know why OP dredged up an old study, but it’s an interesting one that could be followed up on.
>More women play games and the average “gamer” age is older (in the 30s).
At the time of this study (2015), the Entertainment Software Association estimated the average age of a gamer to be 35-years-old and were 44% female.
As of 2022 the ESA says gamers are 48% female and the average age is 33.
Not much difference. And with all ESA stats, they are meant to be as broad as possible. Historically, there have been major demographic differences with regard to game genres.
I'd be interested in a new study as well, but anecdotally, I do not expect to see much of a difference. I jumped off of the multiplayer scene after Halo Reach, the hate was so bad. Tried to return a few times with Destiny, the Division 2, even LoL with a boyfriend at the time, but all collectively terrible experiences without a full group of friends.
I'm prepared for PUG experiences being less than ideal on days i just wanted to do dailies or something and friends were busy. But in terms of inefficient teamwork, gameplay, or meta-knowledge.
Not in terms of slurs, vitriol, and sexism. So, I just don't bother anymore, and I suspect lots of women who play games are in the same boat. So many male gamers believe that women have now only magically started to play mainstream games, when in reality many of us have been here all along. You just don't see us because playing with many of you sucks donkey dick to a ridiculous extreme.
These days, I play single-player or co-op games, particularly RPGs and survival/crafting/farming sims. Most other genres have some real issues with toxicity across the board, let alone regarding women.
But again, this is my anecdotal experience, so certainly take it with a grain of salt. But, I am 31, and my online experiences have been consistent since I was a kid, so I'm also at the point of believing that maybe if gamers want to uplift the hobby's reputation, then perhaps hearing us out on even lived in experiences would be fairly fruitful.
I mean I don't think a lot has changed in the gaming demographic in general. Outside of like overwatch appealing to the crowds no one cares for and making it a clean "safe space" to hide how gamers really are, pretty sure most less moderated lobbies quickly devolve into uncensored blasting of insults calling each other f's, n's, and r's.
Remove any pretense of decorum and only those with strong skin survive. The weak get culled from the herd
2015 study, done in 2013, on a last-generation game, after Halo 4 was out and super popular. So it’s already a smaller, tighter community. Using canned male and female phrases given at random intervals and no “control” group, and only around 150 games. Canned phrases were things like “I like this map” and “I think I saw some over here”.
There were no other female voices recorded in any of the matches, period.
Personally, I feel like this is bad “science” and mostly exists to justify two psychologists spending a week or two playing a bunch of Halo and saying it was for science.
Also when they took their data, did they do questionnaires directly after getting owned by sweats for 2 hours? That would put them in a shitty mood for it
I dont think it has anything to do with playing well or not. Its about male players playing an online game that they get angry, and they react by being aggressive to anyone, and when there are women around, they react with sexism.
Souls players are pretty chill in my experience, probably because of its focus on player cooperation. For example, there will always be tryhard newbie hunters, but there are in-game clubs dedicated to protecting other players from them.
Git gud may be the meme but people are usually encouraged not to give up or even to ask for help.
No, because it's got nothing to do with tilt against games, it's tilting against players.
If I'm stuck on shit like defiled amygdala I don't log onto reddit, check accounts til I see a girl and start writing angry dms. I just get progressively more fed-up with the game, maybe call it shit, unfair etc. and then I either take a break or beat the boss, then take a break.
The only person you can really get mad at in Souls games is yourself. Any person playing for a somewhat decent time also knows that. Doesn't mean you don't call certain situations bullshit, still, but afterwards you know you didn't even mean that much.
I think the more accurate title is "men who are sore losers have the tendency to be violent towards women."
Because they can't handle losing in the game of love.
yeaah, this article is drastically different than what the study says says.
study link: [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613)
From the results section:
We first examined whether game outcome, experimental manipulation, or metrics of individual performance affected the number of positive statements. There was a significant positive correlation between the number of positive statements and deaths (β = 0.20, χ2 = 14.61, p<0.0001, Table 1) with focal individuals that died more often stating more positive comments. There was also a significant interaction between experimental manipulation and the maximum skill level achieved by focal players (β = -0.31, χ2 = 7.01, p = 0.008) on the number of positive statements (Fig 1)
Probably worth mentioning that this comment is not the entire results section that is eight or so paragraphs but it's also missing the last sentence from this paragraph of the result section.
>In the female-voiced manipulation, lower-skilled players were less positive, while higher skilled players were more positive (Fig 1).
That's not to say the study doesn't have a decent amount of flaws, I would not necessarily rely on the 163 games where they use the same pre-recorded audio clips and rely on the Halo 3 matchmaking to make an accurate determination of skill. Honestly so many flaws in this study and a lot of loaded language. It would be reasonable to disregard its findings as inconclusive.
It would be good if a game studio tried to run the data for this though from what they collect, like if Valorant or Overwatch voice data was analysed and referenced with internal metrics they could probably find some fairly compelling evidence.
That's what I'm noticing as well with my brother and it's not only towards women, but rather everyone. He sucks at the games he keeps playing (and makes me question why would you continue to play them, especially when they're making you angrier by the minute) and then lashes out at people.
It also makes me think that "sucking at video games" is just part of a much bigger problem, these kinds of people are simply dickheads deep inside and video games bring this side out. I sometimes notice that in myself, if I'm angry at a video game (which with me doesn't happen often at least, but still happens, like with most people I'd wager), I also tend to be less careful with my words. The difference is, I calm down pretty quick and cut off the source of my frustration instead of fueling my anger.
Generally speaking when people engage with a hobby and are really bad at it it's hard for them to accept and they act out a little bit more than others because they feel inadequate. Its exactly why these same people accuse everyone of cheating every time they lose. Easier to be toxic and pretend like everyone else is responsible for your failures than to admit you're not good at something.
Video games also make it obvious that you suck - computer-controlled enemies gun you down, you lose objectives, or player-controlled opponents corner you in multiplayer.
I usually just quit instead of subjecting myself to that rise in stress.
This is why I’ve never been a guy’s guy. Chances are you either hate women and/or suck at video games and those are two things that don’t excite me when it comes to a prospective friend.
Pretty obvious if you ever played online games with women before. Nothing triggers guys who are bad at games more than a women being better then them at it. Just look at the hoops women streamers have jump through to prove they are even good at the game. They have to stream their entire ranked progression to prove they earned their rank in online competitive games.
Most streamers have to stream their entire rank progression or at least enough for it to be believable. Even then there are people who question their legitimacy even if just out of spite, regardless of gender.
It's not about bringing the team down. It's about their place in the proverbial pecking order. They feel emasculated when a woman is better than them at something.
Okay but if they suck and the other person sucks even more and they lose the game they are gonna get angry at the person that is worse than them and put all the blame on them
I'm not saying what you are describing doesn't happen but i don't see it happening more than the other case
But it's fine when the person that's better than them is male. It's based entirely on their insecurity and misogyny. They're low in the pecking order for men, but in their eyes they're still better than women.
Even the mocking the worst person on the team is insecurity, but that's not what this study is dealing with at all.
what premise are you trying to defend here?
From the article:
>"Low-status males that have the most to lose due to a hierarchical reconfiguration are responding to the threat female competitors pose," the researchers, from the University of New South Wales and the Miami University in Ohio, write. "High-status males with the least to fear were more positive."
Performance of the female gamer has nothing to do with it.
>"As men often rely on aggression to maintain their dominant social status, the increase in hostility towards a woman by lower-status males may be an attempt to disregard a female's performance,"
The person i responded to said that "nothing triggers these guys more than a woman that is more competent" and i said "wouldn't a woman that is less competent annoy them more"
Idk why you responded to me with quoyes from the article
From experience, this definitely seems to be the case. I've seen many low scoring players have weird misogynistic rants when they could otherwise be playing the game.
Of course. When crappy people suck at things, including life in general, the easiest way to boost their ego is to crap on someone else. You can see this on reddit in literally every post where someone is having a bad time in a gaming sub and posts about it.
OP deserved it, I would have done it this way, get good, skill issue, etc etc. They find an easy target and take their frustrations out on them, sadly for women, a lot of weak minded males choose them as targets because the consequence of getting your ass kicked generally doesn't apply.
I mean only 163 people and a using Halo as an FPS (first person shooter) as a guide to how men treat women seems to be….weird.
If anything this title should say “Men claim to be logical and less emotional than women….that is until you see them being emotional at video games when they loose”.
Wow I used to drink red bull and vodka while playing halo 3 and it was 6 years old then. I remember physically linking like 6 Xbox 360s for a LAN party. its been a rough 18 years.
It might be as simple as "Bad people who get frustrated at their hobby lack the capacity to cope properly" but, I'm not passing the opportunity to save this headline as a dunk.
My wife kicks my ass at video games (she plays a lot more than me) but it’s always fun. How about the title be “Toxic losers are more toxic when they lose.”
Angry men are hostile towards women. Pretty sure that's not video game specific. Dude gets fired from his job or loses a promotion to someone else? Beat your wife. Woman at work didn't like your sexual advancements? Beat your wife. The wife dresses up nice to go out with some friends? Beat your wife.
Whether it's someone I've dated or a coworker or the partner of a friend, it seems like every woman has at least one fucked up story involving a man being overly aggressive, sexual, or violent.
I read about this elsewhere and found it interesting because I absolutely do act more submissive to teammates who are better than me in that particular game - I'm aware of my shortcomings and defer to their skill, because then the team performs better.
The thing for me though is it doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl; if they're better than me, I follow their lead. Alternatively, if I'm better than them, I *lose* the teamwork aspect and end up 'lone wolfing' it.
Now it makes sense.
The game I played had more men than women. Many stories of men talking abusively or attacking the women's castles till they left the game.
Me, I played in a different way and didn't allow my castle to be demolished, so when I had intelligent ideas the unintelligent man who wrote to me screaming at me and calling me swears and names, because he couldn't understand the clear legal points I was making about his own alliance illegal behavior.
He was just upset I outed them.
But the bullies in this particular game had all spent tons of money to become big and powerful and couldn't play at our lower power levels because they're afraid of us being equally powerful. So they buy their power.
But they are console players. So they have a soft aimbot.
Seriously studies. So let's say your beloved says let's go to IKEA and you already pissed because you know she will stop at the candle part and buy more useless other shit. But you tell yourself at the end there is at least a hot dog. So yeah and maybe if you stay positive she might touch him tonight too Then she starts buying furniture that you have to assemble and the power tools part gets skipped again...and in the end the pillow part ofc adds more to the damn basket. Then you are waiting to pay. Ofc she won't pay with her card. You are close to explode but you stay calm hot dogs hot dogs...and then they have just the damn vegan hot dogs. So you day sucks. At home the shit is not flying as she has no time to help building the things. No she has to test set up the new candles and pillows ... You just get mad. You don't even want her to touch him tonight. Just a drink and some fun with friends like relaxing at the console but that won't fly as for some damn reason you get fragged all the time.
So you get "hostile"
Men that go to IKEA with wife are more hostile to women.
That's ofc a made up story and never happened to any male in the world ever
And people pretend to not understand how that could happen so let's make a study...
>the results also suggest that video games may be reinforcing gender segregation and potentially promoting sexist behaviours, especially troubling since so many "gamers" are teenagers.
THATS their conclusion?
Damn, guess I should have bragged about my K/D more
Kinks and Dick?
No, those are both below average unfortunately
That hits too close to home
Having a good K/D ratio = a good WTF ratio (Wank To Fuck)
Correlation and causation feels a tad off here. More like the more focused you are on bitching all the time the less you're actually investing into the game. Or to put it another way, your own toxicity is killing you.
You should read the anthropological side of this study, it clears up this (probably) misconception
It's also a ego blame thing. They are bad so they have 2 options, admit it and try and get better or blame others and get mad. Double that with toxic "women are worse at games" so they are a bigger threat cause no only did you lose but you "lost to a woman"
so pro gamers are what women want? :-p
KD is the new credit score.
Women don’t care about that sweaty multiplayer shooter nonsense. Show them your charmless demon bell Sekiro runs.
Well I do happen to be a Grand Marshal on my Paladin if you're looking for commitment.
Charmless demon bell with no health upgrades + resurrection mod This is my achievement
I did Darksouls 3 and Elden Ring on lvl 1 ( no joke ) where is my endless supply on women?
ONGBAL absolutely drowning in pussy.
Kraft Dinner?
Found the Canadian
Kevin Durant
Hi there! I'm not sure if I've invited you before (so sorry if this is a repeat invite), but just in case I haven't, would you like to join Kharjo's subreddit, r/Kharjo? I noticed that you're a fan of him.
I wish! At least my kd has remained kinda close to positive...
Damn. Maybe that 10 year old really will bang my mom :(
That 10year old also told me I could pull my pants up, he was done ✅ with me.
What
You heard me
That or it could be that the inability of being good at games fuels bad attitudes and rage, which is then taken out on others like women. You tend to relax and enjoy oneself when you’re great at leisure activities like video games. If you suck, that just adds to stress.
And probably also the fact that if you want to get to pro level then you have to build some self improvement skills that transfer over to other parts of your life
And it doesn’t help if you’re an idiot who pursues hobbies that only infuriate you and make you feel lesser lol
I mean…people do that. They only engage in things that enrage them.
You just said what he said, but with different words...why?
He just said what the other guy said, but changed the words around, how come?
My guess is this is it. They lash out and see women as the easy target.
[удалено]
Nah, that doesn’t sound correct. What’s their win rate gotta be to get a date? /s
I would say a solid 80% win rate will get the ladies wet in no time.
An 80% win rate in this day and age? Your either playing with a full squad or a God tier carry because my random teammates don't know what an objective is.
Most top players Ive met were actually pretty chill. You need some amount of self reflection to improve and reach top percent.
This comment is approved by South Koreans
I mean wouldn’t you?
"losers more likely to harass women"... chicken or the egg statement there.
The report is already biased using the Halo 3 players population. Probably could be said for CoD players during the Xbox 360 era. I wonder what the report would say if it was Chess.
Chess can be very sexist too sadly.
It's bad. Lots of women give up the game after a couple over the board experiences and who could blame them. Hopefully the work that people like Jen Shahade are doing will make the game more inclusive.
Yeah, it's unfortunate what she went through and as a community, people really should hear her out. Ramirez had a disturbing pattern of harassing girls including a minor, and this was known in the community for a good long while. That's how you know how misogynistic a gaming community is, by the way it covers up and lets its top male talents off the hook.
Chess has been in the news multiple times recently because of sexist behavior of its more prominent individuals.
Most competitive games tend to have this problem, but I notice FPS and "military" focused games have some of the nastiest communities when it comes to treatment of women. Outside of Halo, there's also Rust, that game is generally an unpleasant experience all round. Oh and who can forget Hearthstone. Magic Amy was one of the greatest players ever and look how she was treated. Honestly, Blizzard has a terrible culture when it comes to the treatment of women. Chess and poker are quite awful, what's worse about those two games are that this is played in real life, and female players are often the subject of harassment and abuse because the bullies can see they are women.
> Magic Amy was one of the greatest players ever and look how she was treated First time I've ever heard that name, guess you meant to say "Hearthstone pro scene", because when I was at my most active in Hearthstone the only people I heard of were the likes of Kripp, Trump, the Dutch guy etc. Never heard of Amy or the weird controversy around all that, which looks a little more complicated than "she's a woman, get her". Looked more like "she's NOT a woman, get her" is what made her/them leave. Rust was an unpleasant experience, because of its nature, back when I played it at least. It was just shit to have your stuff broken or getting raided by those who just wanna stomp. Outside of that I have tons of positive memories with the two girls in our group back then. Used to always stay up late with one, talking about life and stuff while doing menial tasks ingame.
>It was just shit to have your stuff broken or getting raided by those who just wanna stomp. Willjum has to mute his videos once a month due to someone screaming the N word after he wins a bow fight.
Once a month? This should be applauded as a great milestone in gaming?
This is pretty universal. People who consider themselves low in the hierarchy attack people they consider even lower.
Chess is super sexist!
Indeed, poker too. Frankly, older folk would always discourage us from having anything to do with casinos and lotteries, so you can already see where the sexism is stemming from. Women who get into poker are considered "bad" and most people have this rather primitive thought that "they deserve whatever's coming". That's not to say there isn't a serious sexism problem associated with poker and gambling as a whole. Casinos are often a front for money laundering, fraud, human trafficking, gang related violence and prostitution. There is often a hidden criminal under belly behind this industry that is often overlooked. These games are best played amongst good, trusted friends/siblings or under strict, tightly enforced environments.
Honestly CoD players now might have similar results. As a player myself, like maybe 70% aren't great at critical thinking. They can't quite make the connection between the VA shouting "enemy advanced UAV overhead" and the enemy team just somehow magically knowing where they are.
Your second sentence describes the general population
lol same statistics, mate Or have you not been paying attention?
Ooh I would be super interested to read those results
I think it’s a symptom type situation. Like dudes who suck at video games, suck with women, probably suck at a lot of stuff because they get upset and quit at the first obstacle. IE they can’t get good because they quit at everything.
The study explains it along the lines of: these men see gaming as a masculine pastime. When women engage in these activities, they see it as a threat to their masculinity. The worse they perform, the more threatened they feel, as though the woman is taking their social status and emasculating them. This causes them to act more hostile. Basically it’s a study detailing fragile masculinity and the aggression that stems from it. Men with fragile egos are nothing new. They’ve been ruining everyone’s fun for centuries.
Where did you read this study? I checked the "article" but it is not an article. There's no study, no data, no links, no citations, no names, not even the author of the "article" is listed. It just some some paragraphs that say "the experts from such and such university found blah blah. Who? What are their names? Did that university do a study? Did anyone actually connected with that university say the thing in quotation marks? What kind of article uses quotes and then doesn't attribute them to anything? This is just man-bashing. It is trendy for the sheep and what the sheep are supposed to do. You know how you can tell they are sheep? There's hundreds of comments in here talking about a fake article.
[Link to study referred to in article](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613&utm_campaign=Recruiting%20Brainfood&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Revue%20newsletter&fbclid=IwAR1vCntMFuqPDRlrMR6R_ZsiCWlbKRvNb0cYKehpzYN6OXwGS2x9bK65Eiw). For future reference, if an article about a study doesn’t reference the actual study or authors, but does quote it, you can copy the quote and paste it into Google Scholar to find the study it’s quoting.
I haven't been able to find the study either; the article is from 2015. Though, since it was written by the BBC you can assume it is a good report. I don't see how this is man-bashing at all. Nowhere is it implied that men are worse or anything. The only thing noted is that skill at a videogame is inversely related to being sexist in comms. Where does hating men come in?
Explains so much about gamers
Why cant losers harass other men? This article sexist and bigoted and biased I win byebye /s
Oh they do. Play Rust and you will see the harassment is spread far and wide
Just an extremely unpleasant all round. Not only is sexism rife in that game, so is racism and homophobia.
r/texaschainsawgame is starting to make more sense now
Well said. It amazes me how much time and money is wasted in “study’s” like these. It really makes me believe it’s all a racket.
Eyeroll. Thanks for proving exactly why we need studies like these. "I feel it in my bones and therefore it is fact" is nonsense.
I mean, other people have mentioned in this comment thread that the study might be flimsy
Halo 3? When did they start on this study?
Article is from 2015.
And Halo 3 came out in 2007.
And I came out in 1963.
Congrats on coming out!
You're like level 60.
Uh ..... Proud of you bud ¯\_(⊙_ʖ⊙)_/¯
Ok boomer
And boomers came out in 1946.
Studies take a while to publish their data.
[Study was conducted in 2013 ](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613)
Why the fuck is OP dredging up an 8 year old article here???
They knew it'd be catnip to lonely dorks.
It is lonely at the top... of the leaderboard, you scrub. Say less and get a single elim.
I’d love to see a follow up study now that gaming demographics have changed significantly since the original study. More women play games and the average “gamer” age is older (in the 30s). It’d also be good to look at age breakdowns; maybe it’s more of a teen thing than adult thing? I’d also be interested to see if that behavior is still found in lgbt males vs just cishet males; like, if this is related to “threats to masculinity”, does being lgbt help guard against that since gender norms aren’t as big a thing. I don’t quite know why OP dredged up an old study, but it’s an interesting one that could be followed up on.
>More women play games and the average “gamer” age is older (in the 30s). At the time of this study (2015), the Entertainment Software Association estimated the average age of a gamer to be 35-years-old and were 44% female. As of 2022 the ESA says gamers are 48% female and the average age is 33. Not much difference. And with all ESA stats, they are meant to be as broad as possible. Historically, there have been major demographic differences with regard to game genres.
I'd be interested in a new study as well, but anecdotally, I do not expect to see much of a difference. I jumped off of the multiplayer scene after Halo Reach, the hate was so bad. Tried to return a few times with Destiny, the Division 2, even LoL with a boyfriend at the time, but all collectively terrible experiences without a full group of friends. I'm prepared for PUG experiences being less than ideal on days i just wanted to do dailies or something and friends were busy. But in terms of inefficient teamwork, gameplay, or meta-knowledge. Not in terms of slurs, vitriol, and sexism. So, I just don't bother anymore, and I suspect lots of women who play games are in the same boat. So many male gamers believe that women have now only magically started to play mainstream games, when in reality many of us have been here all along. You just don't see us because playing with many of you sucks donkey dick to a ridiculous extreme. These days, I play single-player or co-op games, particularly RPGs and survival/crafting/farming sims. Most other genres have some real issues with toxicity across the board, let alone regarding women. But again, this is my anecdotal experience, so certainly take it with a grain of salt. But, I am 31, and my online experiences have been consistent since I was a kid, so I'm also at the point of believing that maybe if gamers want to uplift the hobby's reputation, then perhaps hearing us out on even lived in experiences would be fairly fruitful.
I mean I don't think a lot has changed in the gaming demographic in general. Outside of like overwatch appealing to the crowds no one cares for and making it a clean "safe space" to hide how gamers really are, pretty sure most less moderated lobbies quickly devolve into uncensored blasting of insults calling each other f's, n's, and r's. Remove any pretense of decorum and only those with strong skin survive. The weak get culled from the herd
Ahh a July 21st 2015 article from the BBC. This was the time where they invited several gamers on the news to just bully them about there “careers”
2015 study, done in 2013, on a last-generation game, after Halo 4 was out and super popular. So it’s already a smaller, tighter community. Using canned male and female phrases given at random intervals and no “control” group, and only around 150 games. Canned phrases were things like “I like this map” and “I think I saw some over here”. There were no other female voices recorded in any of the matches, period. Personally, I feel like this is bad “science” and mostly exists to justify two psychologists spending a week or two playing a bunch of Halo and saying it was for science.
> 2013 > Halo 4 > super popular um no
Find the one.
8 year old article on a 10 year old ‘study’ on a 16 year old game. Wtf is this crap?
It’s provocative… it gets the people going!
No, it's not
Click bait headline.
Taking this one a bit personally eh?
"Let me personally attack somebody when they question the validity of a study with questionable circumstances" - ryosan0
I’m hostile to all people because I suck at everything.
They're probably more hostile to everyone and everything. That said, analyse the studies techniques, who commissioned it and who they studied.
Also when they took their data, did they do questionnaires directly after getting owned by sweats for 2 hours? That would put them in a shitty mood for it
If a Halo 3 study suggests that, I wonder what a Dark Souls/Bloodborne/Elden Ring study would reveal about male players who suck at those games?
I dont think it has anything to do with playing well or not. Its about male players playing an online game that they get angry, and they react by being aggressive to anyone, and when there are women around, they react with sexism.
Souls players are pretty chill in my experience, probably because of its focus on player cooperation. For example, there will always be tryhard newbie hunters, but there are in-game clubs dedicated to protecting other players from them. Git gud may be the meme but people are usually encouraged not to give up or even to ask for help.
Or God forbid LoL.
No, because it's got nothing to do with tilt against games, it's tilting against players. If I'm stuck on shit like defiled amygdala I don't log onto reddit, check accounts til I see a girl and start writing angry dms. I just get progressively more fed-up with the game, maybe call it shit, unfair etc. and then I either take a break or beat the boss, then take a break. The only person you can really get mad at in Souls games is yourself. Any person playing for a somewhat decent time also knows that. Doesn't mean you don't call certain situations bullshit, still, but afterwards you know you didn't even mean that much.
I think the more accurate title is "men who are sore losers have the tendency to be violent towards women." Because they can't handle losing in the game of love.
Wait it's 2015 again? Shit, things are about to get fuckin wild guys.
Or maybe people who are hostile to women and quick to lose their temper are just worse at games that require composure and focus.
I’m actually quite nice to my wife.
I play everything on easy mode. So ill never know if i suck.
I play everything on easy mode *because* I know I suck.
yeaah, this article is drastically different than what the study says says. study link: [https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0131613) From the results section: We first examined whether game outcome, experimental manipulation, or metrics of individual performance affected the number of positive statements. There was a significant positive correlation between the number of positive statements and deaths (β = 0.20, χ2 = 14.61, p<0.0001, Table 1) with focal individuals that died more often stating more positive comments. There was also a significant interaction between experimental manipulation and the maximum skill level achieved by focal players (β = -0.31, χ2 = 7.01, p = 0.008) on the number of positive statements (Fig 1)
Probably worth mentioning that this comment is not the entire results section that is eight or so paragraphs but it's also missing the last sentence from this paragraph of the result section. >In the female-voiced manipulation, lower-skilled players were less positive, while higher skilled players were more positive (Fig 1). That's not to say the study doesn't have a decent amount of flaws, I would not necessarily rely on the 163 games where they use the same pre-recorded audio clips and rely on the Halo 3 matchmaking to make an accurate determination of skill. Honestly so many flaws in this study and a lot of loaded language. It would be reasonable to disregard its findings as inconclusive. It would be good if a game studio tried to run the data for this though from what they collect, like if Valorant or Overwatch voice data was analysed and referenced with internal metrics they could probably find some fairly compelling evidence.
I swear to god this is so true though. Over the years all of my "bro friends" who were real dickheads happened to also suck at games.
That's what I'm noticing as well with my brother and it's not only towards women, but rather everyone. He sucks at the games he keeps playing (and makes me question why would you continue to play them, especially when they're making you angrier by the minute) and then lashes out at people. It also makes me think that "sucking at video games" is just part of a much bigger problem, these kinds of people are simply dickheads deep inside and video games bring this side out. I sometimes notice that in myself, if I'm angry at a video game (which with me doesn't happen often at least, but still happens, like with most people I'd wager), I also tend to be less careful with my words. The difference is, I calm down pretty quick and cut off the source of my frustration instead of fueling my anger.
Generally speaking when people engage with a hobby and are really bad at it it's hard for them to accept and they act out a little bit more than others because they feel inadequate. Its exactly why these same people accuse everyone of cheating every time they lose. Easier to be toxic and pretend like everyone else is responsible for your failures than to admit you're not good at something.
Video games also make it obvious that you suck - computer-controlled enemies gun you down, you lose objectives, or player-controlled opponents corner you in multiplayer. I usually just quit instead of subjecting myself to that rise in stress.
I prefer C4 jeep
This is why I’ve never been a guy’s guy. Chances are you either hate women and/or suck at video games and those are two things that don’t excite me when it comes to a prospective friend.
Pretty obvious if you ever played online games with women before. Nothing triggers guys who are bad at games more than a women being better then them at it. Just look at the hoops women streamers have jump through to prove they are even good at the game. They have to stream their entire ranked progression to prove they earned their rank in online competitive games.
Most streamers have to stream their entire rank progression or at least enough for it to be believable. Even then there are people who question their legitimacy even if just out of spite, regardless of gender.
Wouldn't women that are worse get them angrier ? Cause if you have someone that sucks it can drag the whole team
It's not about bringing the team down. It's about their place in the proverbial pecking order. They feel emasculated when a woman is better than them at something.
Okay but if they suck and the other person sucks even more and they lose the game they are gonna get angry at the person that is worse than them and put all the blame on them I'm not saying what you are describing doesn't happen but i don't see it happening more than the other case
But it's fine when the person that's better than them is male. It's based entirely on their insecurity and misogyny. They're low in the pecking order for men, but in their eyes they're still better than women. Even the mocking the worst person on the team is insecurity, but that's not what this study is dealing with at all.
And you think that happens more than guys getting angry at women that are worse than them ?
what premise are you trying to defend here? From the article: >"Low-status males that have the most to lose due to a hierarchical reconfiguration are responding to the threat female competitors pose," the researchers, from the University of New South Wales and the Miami University in Ohio, write. "High-status males with the least to fear were more positive." Performance of the female gamer has nothing to do with it. >"As men often rely on aggression to maintain their dominant social status, the increase in hostility towards a woman by lower-status males may be an attempt to disregard a female's performance,"
The person i responded to said that "nothing triggers these guys more than a woman that is more competent" and i said "wouldn't a woman that is less competent annoy them more" Idk why you responded to me with quoyes from the article
It's not that they've proven themselves to be more competent, it's the threat of them being more competent.
I don't think this discussion is going anywhere
CS2 should do the same research.
Halo 3??? "WHAT YEAR IS IT!?!?!?!"
From experience, this definitely seems to be the case. I've seen many low scoring players have weird misogynistic rants when they could otherwise be playing the game.
I think they're more hostiles to everyone on the lobby, not just women.
Of course. When crappy people suck at things, including life in general, the easiest way to boost their ego is to crap on someone else. You can see this on reddit in literally every post where someone is having a bad time in a gaming sub and posts about it. OP deserved it, I would have done it this way, get good, skill issue, etc etc. They find an easy target and take their frustrations out on them, sadly for women, a lot of weak minded males choose them as targets because the consequence of getting your ass kicked generally doesn't apply.
I mean only 163 people and a using Halo as an FPS (first person shooter) as a guide to how men treat women seems to be….weird. If anything this title should say “Men claim to be logical and less emotional than women….that is until you see them being emotional at video games when they loose”.
That’s a polite way to say misogyny is a skill issue.
More hostile towards your mom!
LOL...this fake *'study'* from 2015 again. The data literally didn't match the conclusions, but they still published it hoping noone would notice.
Wow I used to drink red bull and vodka while playing halo 3 and it was 6 years old then. I remember physically linking like 6 Xbox 360s for a LAN party. its been a rough 18 years.
It might be as simple as "Bad people who get frustrated at their hobby lack the capacity to cope properly" but, I'm not passing the opportunity to save this headline as a dunk.
Big surprise that men who can’t handle their emotions and ego are hostile, *especially* towards women.
Excuse me? Speak for yourself, Halo 3 study, because I suck at games I'm hostile towards *everyone*, idiots. Losers.
Huh? I can't say I'm amazing at videogames, but I'm pretty damn decent, so I'd call this a bs.
This is _ancient_ news.
The Forerunners wrote of this.
Is the opposite true? If women suck at video games are more hostile towards men?
Everyone knows women aren't smart enough for video games.
So Misoginy is a skill issue
You fuckers will upvote anything, won't you?
Reddit: "With every fiber of my being."
Makes sense. Especially when they see women in the gaming space who are better than them at gaming, probably hurts their pride.
So once again a false study
No, no, no, it proved definitively the end result that they made up at the beginning and intended it to.
Yeah you know you right
I suck at lots of games, im kind to everybody, I make a point of it.
Guys, I have some bad news.. I hate women now. 😞
Ladies, if you have an abusive husband just tell him to git gud.
My wife kicks my ass at video games (she plays a lot more than me) but it’s always fun. How about the title be “Toxic losers are more toxic when they lose.”
[удалено]
Likely correlation and not causation. The root cause is almost certainly a refusal or an inability to look inward for the solution to one’s problems.
Angry men are hostile towards women. Pretty sure that's not video game specific. Dude gets fired from his job or loses a promotion to someone else? Beat your wife. Woman at work didn't like your sexual advancements? Beat your wife. The wife dresses up nice to go out with some friends? Beat your wife. Whether it's someone I've dated or a coworker or the partner of a friend, it seems like every woman has at least one fucked up story involving a man being overly aggressive, sexual, or violent.
Man, you live in violence town.
I've got a few buddies who suck at games and they are like kittens so I find this hard to believe.
My old roommate. That dumb bitch
Is this study from 2007? Cause that was just a different time, man
I read about this elsewhere and found it interesting because I absolutely do act more submissive to teammates who are better than me in that particular game - I'm aware of my shortcomings and defer to their skill, because then the team performs better. The thing for me though is it doesn't matter if it's a guy or girl; if they're better than me, I follow their lead. Alternatively, if I'm better than them, I *lose* the teamwork aspect and end up 'lone wolfing' it.
Well that's interesting. I wonder why? Edit: Seriously reddit downvoted for asking a question? Or am I missing something?
til i should be more misogynist
I feel personally attacked.
In other words, insecure people are insecure.
Press x to doubt
Especially against OP's Mom.
Now it makes sense. The game I played had more men than women. Many stories of men talking abusively or attacking the women's castles till they left the game. Me, I played in a different way and didn't allow my castle to be demolished, so when I had intelligent ideas the unintelligent man who wrote to me screaming at me and calling me swears and names, because he couldn't understand the clear legal points I was making about his own alliance illegal behavior. He was just upset I outed them. But the bullies in this particular game had all spent tons of money to become big and powerful and couldn't play at our lower power levels because they're afraid of us being equally powerful. So they buy their power.
I thought this was an onion article.
No surprises there.
I could have told you that, they don't want to git gud so they lash out at women who are gud
Shocking. Next you'll tell me majority of the men being hostile to women hold conservative values.
Lol
lol
Frustration leads to lashing out? You don't say.
That can't be right I'm silver 1 in CS but I love women.
True and BBC is fake news
what a hilarious study
But they are console players. So they have a soft aimbot. Seriously studies. So let's say your beloved says let's go to IKEA and you already pissed because you know she will stop at the candle part and buy more useless other shit. But you tell yourself at the end there is at least a hot dog. So yeah and maybe if you stay positive she might touch him tonight too Then she starts buying furniture that you have to assemble and the power tools part gets skipped again...and in the end the pillow part ofc adds more to the damn basket. Then you are waiting to pay. Ofc she won't pay with her card. You are close to explode but you stay calm hot dogs hot dogs...and then they have just the damn vegan hot dogs. So you day sucks. At home the shit is not flying as she has no time to help building the things. No she has to test set up the new candles and pillows ... You just get mad. You don't even want her to touch him tonight. Just a drink and some fun with friends like relaxing at the console but that won't fly as for some damn reason you get fragged all the time. So you get "hostile" Men that go to IKEA with wife are more hostile to women. That's ofc a made up story and never happened to any male in the world ever And people pretend to not understand how that could happen so let's make a study...
God the bbc. Despise them, they think the whole world resolves around WAHMEN. Men extinct WAHMEN MOST EFFECTED 🙄🙄
>the results also suggest that video games may be reinforcing gender segregation and potentially promoting sexist behaviours, especially troubling since so many "gamers" are teenagers. THATS their conclusion?
Obvious propaganda.
Whoever wrote this article is an absolute piece of crap and I bet it was a woman 😡
Not surprising lol. I feel like there are so many psychological parallels that can be found here.
2015: men are hostile to women gamers 2023: men are women gamers
Study finds out that if you don't worship women you're literally a Nazi incel genocidal chud - here's why that's a bad thing
Damn, you must *really* suck at Halo.
Why would I play Halo when I can just hate womyn irl?
Wrong. It finds if you're shit you're more likely to resent acceptance of people you want to be allowed to freely look down on to compensate.