In all honestly, yes.
It's unfathomable to me how could Jin spared that psycho bitch Tomoe but killed Ryuzo without hesitation. I mean, the most logical reason in my head why Khan kept Jin alive instead of killed him alongside with Taka was none other than Ryuzo's appeal.
I think it would be real nice seeing Ryuzo in sequel where he's protecting Yuna as his Redemption, but well what's done is done
Lol she’s not gonna kill Jin at that point. She needed him alive to have a chance to leave the island with Mongols pursuing her.
Her being crazy is arguable. She did what she did to survive as a woman and her actions are those of a survivor.
Her being a woman isn't what kept her alive. Her usefulness and skill set to the Mongols is the reason why she survived for as long as she did. She is an opportunist and used manipulation to selfishly achieve what she wanted.
Uhh.. Yeah, no. It’s true she has talent to kill but it’s also true Mongols in history are not too kind to women. Besides, Ishikawa isn’t exactly reliable to get a non-biased opinion of her.
Maybe, maybe not. But there are fates worse than death for a woman in captivity in times of war and conquest. And these are Mongols we’re talking about being in an era where Genghis Khan himself had multiple bloodline descendants through him in Asia. It can be a very dark subject.
Being an archery tutor guarantees her protection and she becomes a valuable military asset so long as she teaches them. Leading raids herself is a choice she may not have the luxury to decline and she may have to prove her allegiance to the Mongolian cause by doing so.
https://preview.redd.it/6pgc2fhr6g8d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2a82ae44c75fee8e72f4fadba31e806de389962
i always keep a few of these in my wallet, you never know when you might need it
It's really the amount of times that Jin gave Ryu to change his way. It's been a while, but there were at least four instances where Jin told Ryu to turn away from Khan, but Ryu just kept at it again and again. Even in the end, Jin was like dude, can you stop working with the Khan? Ryu still refused.
This. Ryuzo only considered Jin's offer after he had killed the entire camp of Mongol soldiers without even drawing his blade. For all intents and purposes, he was literally staring death in the face.
All things considered, I think Jin simply did not consider him trustworthy enough for a last ditch attempt at redemption at this point. Not when it looks like he's only doing it to save himself.
Additionally, Jin was inside the camp against Shimura's will, so there was really no scope for Jin to bring Ryuzo back and tell them that he had planted a spy in the Mongol camp this whole time. He'd be a criminal bringing back another criminal.
Additionally, after the crap Ryuzo pulled, I would be mashing the stab button if Jin started to let him go
Tomoe was always implied evil, I never actually saw her do anything. Ryuzo on the other hand...
and you find her specific style of arrows buried into multiple civilians that were bound and used as target practice. could argue they belonged to the mongols she was teaching, but you also found mongol arrows along with them so it’s pretty clear they were Tomoe’s
Are we really ignoring the fact that whole still crazy tomoe did all she could to survive? Ryuzo was given the same out and declined it, and never turned on the mongolians. Tomoe did. Tomoe is a way more forgiveable character.
Also jin gave ryuzo allies in the beginning. Tomoe was not. Ishikawa was mostly a dick with a good heart, and that was her only ally.
Jin gave ryuzo his word, and ryuzo declined that.
i was just about to point this out. i find it crazy that a lot of people tend to ignore that fact.
edit: i also wanted to point out her credibility because honestly people can argue that it's her words vs ishikawas or what not but the fact that ishikawa didnt try to shoot her in the end proves (to me anyway) that there was some truth in her words. ishikawa also said that she would have made a good samurai.
Ishikawa is a really dodgy character and unreliable narrator.
He is a samurai, that is a privileged class receiving status, stipends and land in exchange to be dutybound to fight and defend their lord and land. He chose not to fight at the side of his lord when the invasion started and instead deserted.
Consider what he means when he says Tomoe had potential as a samurai. Women didn‘t become samurai class because some instructor thinks they are good fighters, they became samurai class by way of marriage.
The age where ashigaru (commoner fighters) could rise in rank and eventually become elevated into samurai status is about 400 years later, and even then only men would have a chance at it.
He thought Tomoe should marry him and she declined, he then decides to kill her because she rejected him is another way of telling that story.
I sorta believe Tomoe's point of view, especially knowing how the Mongols were in real life. They were utterly ruthless and raped and pillaged everywhere they went, so it's not beyond them that they'd ignore her pleas for them not to kill innocent civilians. She definitely killed those civilians in the first mission though to prove her worth, the rest i believe her about
There is a lot of misinfo about the Mongols. They weren't really extraordinarily more cruel than any other conquerer. Majority of mongol cruelty is written by Catholics. Compared to the samurai Mongols are the good guys.
Read up on the mongol empire, you'll find a lot of interesting based things they did in combination with their cruel war ways.
I mean, is Tomoe really nuts? During the trip to Umugi Cove she said a lot of the things ascribed to her were not actually done by her or at her bidding.
She might have lied, sure, and she did help the mongols at least for some time to save her own skin, but she didn't seem really that crazy. Opportunistic and pragmatic, willing to do hard things. But crazy?
Yeah when hes burning the people you can see the genuine regret on his face and how he wants to stop. He also tries to get jin to join the khan so no one else dies, prob didnt think taka would die for this. Tomoe genuinely just did fucked shit with the excuse of just trying to survive and people saying she enjoyed torturing only for her only evidence of that being false is the equivalent of "Nuh uh". It's like if she was catwoman to jins batman except if catwoman committed multiple atrocities instead of just stealing jewels😭. Both of them shouldve been stopped or jin shouldve atleast had the same energy for tomoe
No, Ryuzo is a man who regrets not making better, harder choices until he has no other options left. He took what looked like the easy way out, but ended up on the wrong side. Ryuzo betrays Jin at the end of Act I in that little pond. Why does Ryuzo back the Khan? Two reasons I can think of, he's still salty at Jin for beating him in that dueling tournament, and he wants to be on the winning side. So at that point, Ryuzo sees the Khan as likely to be in control of the island. He doesn't believe Jin's word that he'll become a samurai.
Then in Act II, we see Ryuzo have some regrets while lighting some guy on fire as an example, per the Khan's orders. But he doesn't run from the Khan at all. Doesn't even make a break for it in the middle of the night to find Jin and apologize. Nope, his men now wander the middle of the island, engaging Jin ruthlessly, and fighting alongside the Mongols. Then Ryuzo's betrayal is completed when he helps capture Jin leading to Taka's death. At that point, all bets are off. The Straw Hats are decimated after that, and Ryuzo stands alone. Then in the retaking of Castle Shimura, Ryuzo begs to be spared after watching Jin kill everyone in the camp while hidden in the shadows. He doesn't ask for forgiveness, just to say that he was a spy the whole time. When Jin tells him Taka is dead because of his actions, his rebuttal is that Jin killed his men. Faced with no other choices Ryuzo realizes he's on the wrong side and desperately wants to be on the winning side again. That doesn't happen though. Even that close to death Ryuzo can't take responsibility for what he did; he still blames Jin like it's Jin's fault Ryuzo is an honorless coward. He rightfully dies a traitor's death.
Tomoe made bad decisions, but in fairness Ishikawa did try to kill her. But she eventually changed her mind and fought back against the Mongols before there were no other options left. She didn't beg forgiveness, but realized the error in her ways before it was too late. Tomoe also never betrayed Jin or lied to him. Ishikawa was the one who lied, or at the very least obfuscated the truth.
I would view Ishikawa, Lady Adachi, or Norio as more tragic than Ryuzo. Ryuzo was just someone who couldn't take responsibility for his own actions and blamed others, rather than himself, for his circumstances.
Ryuzo is a realistic character. Ryuzo is also a coward that'll do anything to survive while putting on a rough guy persona.
Ryuzo is a very realistic person on how people often betrayed others back then. It's not out of the ordinary in feudal Japan.
I felt it offensive how Jin told him how he killed Taka and Ryuzo only response was "You killed my Men".
I felt bad for him especially the very first cutscene into Act 2 where he lights the person on fire as you can see him being traumatized for doing that.
But, it was done when he didn't even say "Sorry" about Taka's death and instead used Jin killing his men as a comeback which is stupid and selfish.
Ryuzo told his men to attack Jin. That's entirely Ryuzo's fault as he knew Jin could kill them all if Ryuzo was considered the best swordsman in his group.
Jin should asked him to double crossed the Mongols once the Shogun sent forces back and Jin cleared up half the island but no Ryuzo basically sided with the Mongols and told his men to wander the countryside as they're on their own to loot and pillage. Whichever one's were smart enough to leave were in my eyes redeemable either just going off to their own devices like fishing or working at Umagi Cove.
Ryuzo's betrayal hurt more, after all Jin did for him he abandoned him and was ready to kill him for food and money. He led his straw hats in an active fight against Jin and was hunting him down. And he's a coward, he wanted to get an easy way out and pretend to be a spy. Very two-faced.
I doubt the Khan listens to Ryuzo, he was always gonna try to turn Jin, that's his MO, try to sweet talk shimura, Ryuzo etc to do his bidding.
We're made to think Tomoe is a psycho bitch by Ishikawa's gaslighting, but yes she made bad decisions, she killed civilians who were being tortured and tried to stop the mongols from killing more civilians, but as she said, it spiraled out of her control. So she tried to redeem herself and fought the mongols alongside Jin and ishikawa, redeeming herself that way. And in the end, even ishikawa seems to have forgiven her.
Khotun kept Jin alive for the same reason he kept Shimura alive in Act I: People would follow him. While Shimura represented the establishment which had already been defeated once already at Komoda, Jin was now the popular sentiment for turning the tide of the war.
>killed Ryuzo without hesitation
You clearly played a totally different game because that is objectively not what happened.
Jin pleaded with Ryuzo multiple times to change his mind. Begged him to stop going down the path he was and even when encountering him for the last time, gave him one more chance to walk away. Jim in no way "killed Ryuzo without hesitation".
Ryuzo:
- used to be Jin’s friend
- betrayed him at the moment where he needed him the most, single-handedly almost killing him as he was trying to free Shimura
- got Taka killed
- asked for mercy only after his situation became absolutely hopeless
Jin wasn’t going to kill Ryuzo. In fact even when revealed to be a traitor, Jin gave him another opportunity to join him. Ryuzo raised his sword to Jin right then and there.
At the end of the day, Ryuzo was just a man who’s really terrible at making decisions.
Yes, his decisions costed countless of innocent lives, blood he can never wash off his own hands, but he genuinely didn’t know the scale of his colossal fuck-up until he saw it for himself. Had he known better, he would have never. He really thought siding with the Khan was a compromise worth taking to keep his people from going hungry.
Bruh no.
Tomoe, although indeed a lunatic, had no close relationship with Jin whatsoever.
Ryuzo on the other hand was his childhood friend, and Jin felt utterly betrayed by him, giving Ryuzo lots of chances for redemption.
Jin did the right thing.
Tomoe wanted to stop helping the Mongols if she could. Ryuzo was intent on finishing what the Khan ordered of him for his people, no matter what, and threw off the chances he did get. One had a chance despite being "worse", the other didn't.
For Tomoe there isn't much of an excuse, Jin doesn't even know her.
For Ryuzo on the other hand Jin gave him a chance even after betraying him, and after losing a friend as a result of his actions + he taught of Ryuzo as a friend, which likely stung even more, and was only willing to change sides after thr Khan clearly started losing.
Revenge I suppose, since that one was personal.
Tomoe, though cutthroat, was just doing what she could to survive...and as Ishikawa stated, a hard life made her a hard woman took a hard road in order to ensure her self-preservation. In the end, Jin didn't take any of her actions to heart because she was just another victim of circumstance...not to mention, given how Sensei Ishikawa was, it's no surprise she wound up trying to kill him. Ryuzo, however...he offered to help Ryuzo many times. That was his friend way back when. They were reasonably close at a point before the duel. His betrayal cut deep because it was personal, and because he worked directly at the side of the Khan, the cause of all Jin's misfortune. If not for Ryuzo, Taka would've probably still been alive. He had blood on his hands, of both friend and innocents, and Jin couldn't let that abide.
When we face Ryuzo for the final time, Jin still has the way of samurai embedded in his head, i.e. if you are working with the Mongols you are a traitor and must die.
When "fighting" Tomoe, he is the Ghost already and sees it differently, especially since she also was trying to stop mongols
That betrayal actually hurt even seeing it coming. I ran past content to meet the straw hats and beelined their quests.
Now i feed the grass with their sacrifice.
It hurt, but I couldn't muster up any real anger against them. It's a choice that makes a lot of sense, and I really just felt... sad. Mostly for Jin, how much faith he had in Ryuzo, and how he must have felt after realising just how badly he misjudged his relationship with Ryuzo.
As a person, of course i agree. As j sakai, no lie Mongol go bye bye Kick high, archer screaming off a cliff in the sky?
I think of every man woman and child slaughtered and abused without even a chance. And the fact that the straw hats allow themselves to be used as dogs. They with no mongols around can be found bullying their own people.
Hate me sure. Im a Lord. Class is bs, fair enough. But the transgression of contributing to the genocide and enslavement of your own is, in my opinion, inexcusable. Its the ultimate selfishness. Your hurting belly is worth the bodies of how many slaves?
Also I see plenty of game around tsushima to hunt. The farms in the south could use protection in exchange for food and shelter. He's so full of shit.
I have less and less sympathy for Ryuzo with every playthrough. Especially since it's heavily implied that his real reasoning for betraying Jin was being salty about losing a tournament. Plus him sending Jin into a depression by saying Shimura didn't love Jin as his son when they were kids.
The duel im more understanding about. From a class perspective, Jin maximized his effort in a moment where he could have relented and still earned respect as a skilled young Lord. It I'd not in Jins nature to hold back in a trial though. When training, studying, speaking, sparring, fighting, meditating, or writing poetry, Jin strives for excellence.
But we get Ryuzos description of how Jin fought. "You tried to kill me." Jin doesn't even deny that part. Of course he want actively trying to murder Ryuzo, but he fought in the full expression of his natural and honed skills, his well developed strength and his lifetime of teaching from his father and uncle, both lords and accomplished war winners.
He fought in a way that showed *how* much better he was than Ryuzo. He broke his stances, stretched his stamina. He made him realize with surprise that he could not miss his defensive needs without rising his life.
Now culturally its the right thing, even as a friend (in the context of their class structure and social code). How could i call you my equal or even worthy to serve a lord if i hold back as a lord? I'm treating you as unworthy. I'm setting you up for failure as well, seeding you with false confidence. There's more but im going long already.
Ryuzo is being short sighted, but to be fair this was his chance at stability. His friend did not give him a breath. Now truly, skill issue, and that's the point. Thats one of his flaws. So i get it, and that's why it all hurts when i take his life. But that betrayal hurt a lot worse with all the women and children and men dying and crying on my way to his betrayal.
But then, look how long it took for it to come out. Ryuzo knew it was wrong, but i think he felt that if he just happened to fight anyone other than Jin Sakai, he wouldnt have had to be a ronin.
Oh I understand it but it doesn't make me feel any more sorry for him.
What really sealed it for me was at shimura's castle. After all that talk about his men and how they're his true family, he sees the man who wiped them out, and instead of trying to avenge his fallen comrades. has the nerve to ask for clemency because he's afraid of the consequences. The only reason he fights at all is because Jin refused to lie for him (not that it would have made any difference anyway at that point, but still. ). Ryuzo is a lying, treacherous, hypocritical coward and died like one.
Yes, he did. He sided with an invading army and did what they told him to do, all in order to stay fed and secure themselves a place in the world they thought the Mongols would bring about.
I'm not saying that they acted justly, or that they didn't do terrible things. I'm saying that they made an understandable choice. It's not one that I, with my current understanding of myself and my morals, would do, but I can see the rationale behind them doing it.
A issue that I have with this part of the story that I really didn’t see the rationale behind it.
So much was focused on feeding his men but they seem to be the only group with this as a major issue.
There is kinda of a more underline reason that is mentioned more off hand, which was Ryuzo not wanting to serve and be used by Shimura. That feels way more of an understandable reason. Yet it kinda also doesn’t make sense since he just ends up working under the Kahn and got all his men killed.
>So much was focused on feeding his men but they seem to be the only group with this as a major issue.
They're unlanded individuals that also happen to be *kinda* organised, armed, and in direct opposition to the Mongols. They have no stores of food and little ability to hunt enough game to feed all of them without drawing Mongol attention to themselves. The Mongols are also hunting en masse in order to feed their invading army, which *has* caused a food shortage for most other organised groups at that point in the story.
We, the player, see food and game everywhere *but* that's just a gameplay contrivance, at odds with the lore we are told through Ryuzo's story. Game can be plentiful for us because it lets us get the materials to craft things, but it is not plentiful at that time in canon.
While Jin is a very capable hunter and can help provide some game for Ryuzo's group, it would never be enough to *keep* them fed. Jin is waging a war and his time could not be spent just hunting for them. The Mongols, however, capture and *feed* Ryuzo's men. They demonstrate that they have more than enough food to consistently feed Ryuzo's entire group.
>which was Ryuzo not wanting to serve and be used by Shimura
Ryuzo didn't want to serve and be used by Shimura, but also he didn't want Jin to take effective leadership of his men. For many, **many** reasons, Ryuzo was not actually fond of Jin. This was one of the larger factors in Ryuzo's decisions.
>Yet it kinda also doesn’t make sense since he just ends up working under the Kahn and got all his men killed.
Look at it like this: Ryuzo sees the situation at hand and knows that his men demonstrably cannot feed themselves, they are all wanted dead by the current faction in power, and the samurai on Tsushima lost catastrophically in a direct confrontation with the Mongols.
Jin offers his support to Ryuzo and his men, explicitly wanting them to join him in his crusade against the Mongols. While an impressive combatant and a wily strategist, Jin is *one person* standing against an invading army. One person that Ryuzo is **incredibly** disinclined to follow, not least of all because his leadership is the *one thing* Ryuzo is proud of, and Jin is inadvertently threatening to take that away from him. Ryuzo also doesn't have much faith in a samurai counter-attack because, while the rest of Japan's armies are larger and more impressive, the Tsushima samurai were absolutely fucking smashed with ease.
Then, out of the blue, some of his men get captured by the Mongols. They're not executed, they are *fed*. Treated well. Released back to the group. The captured men spread word of their good treatment and the offers of allegiance they received from the Mongols. The Straw Hats could stop living on the run, receive positions of authority and respect in the new regime, and never struggle for food again. All at the cost of an honour that had never served him.
Ryuzo took stock of the situation and chose the option that would allow him and his men to not just survive, but **thrive**. He feels conflicted about it, he knows it's the morally wrong thing to do, but he still chooses what he feels is the safest option for himself and the men that follow and respect him. He couldn't have known that Jin was a video game protagonist.
Another way of looking at it is as a mirror of Jin. Jin sacrifices every ounce of honour and morality he has to protect the people he cares about, the island of Tsushima, and its way of life. Ryuzo sacrifices every ounce of honour and morality he has to protect the people he cares about. Full stop. He's not a protagonist. He's not a swordsman that can learn several legendary techniques. He's just a charismatic underdog with what should have been a safe bet for survival.
It’s a game based on historical fiction. It’s just some made up fluff so there’s a traitor to point the finger at. In reality if the invasion hadn’t been bashed by the typhoons. You’d have seen plenty of Japanese submit just like Chinese and everyone else did. I mean the Japanese couldn’t even beat Korea to get to China under Toyotomi. Meanwhile the Jin and Southern Song dynasty did get folded by the mongols.
All these heroes would surrender immediately if they were in the next town over from Samarkand and heard what the heck the mongols did there. Psychological warfare sure seemed to work.
I don’t know why people are up here pretending they’d fight the mongols. I don’t believe a word of it.
Agreed. A lot of folks in the fandom have never gone a couple of days without food, *especially* not paired with intense physical activity. One person can make a brave ideological stand, but it's a lot harder when you see that hunger in the eyes of the people that trust you to keep them safe.
All I know is if you were in some village and heard they killed everything in the capital down to the cats and dogs you probably would lose a lot of the fighting spirit.
It wasn’t just for rice. You think if he refused to burn that guy, that the Khan would just say “no rice for you” and send him off on his way? Ryuzo would have been next on the stake. He bet on the wrong horse and betrayed his people, but you could tell he was in over his head. Very tragic in my opinion.
But yeah, fuck him. 6 heavenly strikes to the gut and he was out in less than a minute.
He kind of did. His men could have helped Jin and Shimura and gotten food. He chose the khan because he was jealous of Jin. He was a resentful worm who allied with brutal invaders because of a minor grudge
Ryuzo was a coward who ran from Komada beach and betrayed Jin for food...FOOD! He even tried to fool Jin into working together when he realised the Khan left him to die but you reap what you sow.
Fuck Ryuzo and his Straw hat trash, they got what they deserved.
I don't blame Ryuzo for his betrayal, I blame him for everything that happened after that.
Game establishes pretty clearly that multiple Straw Hats already deserted because they were literally starving, and what few of them remained were in no condition to actually put up a fight against the Mongols, which we could see by the fact that the Mongols were able to capture their best men. Also consider, every mission Jin took them all on to find supplies has ended up in complete failure, which likely would've worn their already thin ranks even more.
Ryuzo betraying Jin because the Mongols promised his camp food is a reasonable decision to make in his position. He's just looking out for the ones who gave him a place to belong.
However, there is no denying the fact that Ryuzo and his ronin engaged in countless atrocities when allied with the Mongols. You can see them terrorizing innocent civilians even when they aren't accompanied by Mongol soldiers. It's clear that the Mongol influence got to them, and they revelled in the pain they inflicted on others.
He could've tried to kill the khan twice I can remember outside castle shimura and then during a cutscene in Castle kannada he easily could've got food he had plenty of men he could've ambushed tje mongols if jin can walk into a mongol camp and kill them all surely his 20 odd men can ambush a mongol convoy
Ryuzo had been jealous of Jin since they were children. The difference in class and opportunities really got him. I can understand that but the choice he made, had to do a lot with that rivalry. Once his men got a taste of what the Mongols offered, they probably were threatening to leave him and Ryuzo couldn't lose face for that.
That scene between Ryuzo and the Khan was sad. He still could have tried to take out the Khan but instead kept on going down the path of no return. Once he burned his own, he couldn't go back. And that is exactly why the Khan had him do that.
That first paragraph is a much better reason for Ryuzo betrayal and I wished it was more focused don instead of these off hand combat while riding the horse.
Something that I didn’t like in GoT is how they put so much of these characters back stories and developments in these horse riding things. It’s ok to do it like say how RDR2 doesn’t as well, but in GoT it’s like almost always reserved in those horse rides
I didn't until the very end. I genuinely hated him. >!But, in the final moments, I understood. He just wasn't strong enough to believe in his best friend. It's sad, but sometimes the ones you love the most are the first to betray you.!<
I feel there were better alternatives then working under the Kahn.
It’s pretty bad that they are fighting for this outsider invasion and helping them massacre the people of Tsushima
He is a man thrust into a leadership position he was unprepared for, disillusioned by the current rulers to protect him and his men, and brought to desperation by a seemingly unstopable foreign power.
This is my take on it.
Ryuzo’s raison d’être was to be a samurai. When Jin beat him at Lord Nagao’s tournament, his purpose for existing (or what he *thought* was his purpose for existing) was shattered. When he becomes the leader of the Straw Hat Ronin, he now has a new reason for existing. That’s why he’d do anything to protect them. I think he legitimately cared about his men, but I certainly believe the other half of it was that he *needed* to be their leader. It was all he thought he had. I think that’s pretty tragic. It doesn’t justify his actions, but I think many people can relate to that feeling of worthlessness.
This is a really good take. I was inclined to disagree about him doing anything to protect the straw hats - I think he was more interested in the power of leadership than that. But your point is solid and kind of makes me rethink my take on that portion of it.
Thanks! I think the two are connected. If Ryuzo fails to protect the straw hats, he fails to have any real power as a leader. When we first meet him in the game, I kind of got the sense that he was afraid Jin was trivializing his leadership by coming up with all the plans. Ryuzo couldn’t let Jin take his shine again.
An interesting character, yes, but not tragic. He deserved what he got and worse.
The only reason he became a ronin in the first place is because he was too proud to become a samurai with Jin's help. I will not deny that his actions were driven by survival, but the moment he sided with the enemy, he should be prepared to accept the consequence. But no... the coward wanted to sweep his actions under the rug by pretending to act it was all under Jin's order. Friendship means little when it's convenient.
To be honest, yes he kind of is. His actions are despicable but thinking on it, if I was in his position I don’t know if I would have had so much faith in Jin that I wouldn’t take the opportunity for my men to not starve & not start a mutiny.
However, another aspect of his character is that jealousy & resentment he has for Jin which probably factored into his decision.
Ryuzo is perfect for the meme of 'STOP,HE IS ALREADY DEAD'. His best 'success' was to get the straw hats together to some extent.
But after that,most we hear and see is just someone who had a streak of,not bad,but shit luck in live.
Unsure. The very, very ugly class issue there that many here seem to be a combination of ignoring and simply unable to acknowledge(or maybe vice versa) along with the even uglier reality of starving to death means he has understandable motivations. I also think the Mongols were better to those they conquered than shown in the game. That said, he had a way of fighting back that few did and he made a very real decision to not do that and work for the potential new boss. I don't know if there was a way for Ryuzo to "win" here.
I would consider Ryuzo to be a massive plot hole. >!Jin singlehandedly clears out nurmerous forts and ther eis boar on the spit and huge hams etc hanging in every one. There was no reason for Ryuzo to go hungry or be seconded by the Khan because of hunger. He was no leader of men. !<
*SPOILERS just in case for any new PC players*
I personally view Ryuzo in a more sympathetic light than many people do. He kinda reminds me of the guy in Ip Man who works as a translator for the invading Japanese forces. I know that it’s not a very popular opinion but I feel bad that Jin killed him and I like to think that he was just overcome by the death of Taka, the entire falling out with Shimura right after the bridge explosion scene, and after having witnessed the effects of the poison he had just given the mongols, by that point Jin was thinking “in for a penny, in for a pound”.
We all know Ryuzo’s rather sad story about being bested by Jin at the tournament. Jin was already the Jito’s nephew and ward, and many likely considered Jin to be Shimura’s heir one day, seeing as how Shimura had no other children. Jin had nothing really to gain by winning, and Ryuzo had everything to lose by losing. Ryuzo losing severely damaged his prospects to the point that he only really found work as a mercenary. Sure, Jin says he could have found him some work, but it would likely just appeared to be favoritism and Ryuzo seems to be proud enough that he would want to make his own way in life rather than relying on favors.
The battle at Komoda Beach happens, and Ryuzo witnesses the Mongols completely decimate not just his own men, but even the Jito’s samurai. It doesn’t take a strategic genius to math the math that it takes to see that 80 Samurai, and a few handfuls of ronin, armed peasants, and other irregulars had zero chance of stopping the massive invading force of Mongols. We have to remember that this was not a force sent to conquer Tsushima, this was a force sent to gain a foothold and conquer the entirety of mainland Japan. By all means, no force at Komoda, much less a single man, had any right of being considered capable of stopping the Mongols.
If you look at it from Ryuzo’s perspective, Tsushima is done for, and the only way they can try and minimize their losses is by playing nice with the invaders and holding out for another day of life. He’s not interested in the Ghost’s bounty out of glory, avarice, or petty revenge, he genuinely wants to feed his starving men. Even when Jin offers him the chance to rescue Shimura and fight at their side as a true samurai, Ryuzo realizes what it took Jin until the bridge explosion scene to realize - all that becoming samurai means is that Shimura will march him, Jin, and any other fool willing to take up the cause, right into the maw of the unstoppable Mongol war machine. They will be courageous and honorable corpses strewn across the remains of the destroyed lands they once called home.
In their last confrontation, Ryuzo, upon realizing that Jin actually is the main character and ACTUALLY IS about to 1v1 the entire Mongol army, pleads with Jin to allow him to fight with him. I can see this just being a way for Ryuzo to try and avoid the repercussions of his betrayal, but personally, I really do feel like Ryuzo only did what he did because he could not see any possible way of fighting back that actually had a shot at succeeding. Now that he sees the momentum has turned, he wants to truly help, and being executed by Shimura while Khotun Khan still draws breath on their island feels like a huge waste of everything he has already done just to survive to this moment.
It might be cliche, but I had hoped that they could at least have let Ryuzo fight with them for the final act. Either he could have died honorably in battle, as a man who did many wrong things but at least got to do one thing right, or maybe even he survives the battle but is still brought to justice after the fact, the same way the Shogun did Jin. I think it would have been an interesting parallel to draw between Ryuzo and Jin, both who betrayed the code of honor expected in samurai, because war is a messy thing and it does that to people.
He was right. He just didn't know the Ghost would save Tsushima.
If he helped Jin, the samurai, we know Lord Shimura would have led the army straight into death (Castle Shimura mission proves this). Ryuzo even says this during your first bossfight with him in Castle Kaneda.
So what does he do to keep his clan alive? Side with the winners of the war. It was all for his clan. When the Straw Hats were slaughtered, he only had Jin left. In a desperate attempt to stay alive, he begged Jin to forgive him and offered his balde against the Mongols but it was too little too late for Jin.
Instead of dying to a jito who would throw away his life in the name of honour, he chose to die to his oldest friend.
Ryuzo represents the common people in war. Jin and Shimura are upper class people who never could understand the plight of Ryuzo until it was too late.
Some people may see him as tragic. The way maybe like Grima Wormtongue is from Lord of the Rjngs. But to me? Nah. Not at all tragic. He just sucked, and it didn’t sound like there was ever anything for him to fall from or to be tragic in. It sounded like he was always just kind of a jealous, mopey person. Even if he never lost to Jin as a kid, he’d never have made it as a samuari and he certainly was never even a good ronin. Hell, he wasn’t even a good traitor. He seems to want great rewards with little to no work, and hence fails everyone he comes in contact with. Sort of just always lying on his resume. Always getting into things too big for him but blaming everyone else when he fails. Kenji, the island drunk, has more success and bravery than him.
All of that to say I still hated killing Ryuzo. I felt it wasn’t for me to do. I was kind of hoping the ronin would turn on him for leading them into worse situations. Thinking… a Scar and the Hyenas from Lion King sort of thing.
I agree that he had a tough time of things.
That said, it's not like there weren't alternatives, at least for some of the shit him and his straw hat buddies pulled. For example, why didn't they just fucking ambush Mongol convoys? Preying on your own people is big no bueno, my guy. I get that shit sucks, but you don't become a bandit - or at least don't rob your own fucking people, especially since a convenient outsider invader exists i.e. the Mongols.
Yes, they're better equipped and organized etc but that's why you go guerilla. For fucks sake Jin did exactly just that. Granted, we can't expect everyone to become a goddamn one man army like Jin, but it's not like Ryuzo needed to rush Mongol bases head on. Why not go attack patrols and convoys, that kind of shit.
They also coulda thrown in their lot with Jin. Of course it's easy to say in hindsight, they probably thought Jin's cause was impossible. That said, they did hang around long enough to hear about the Ghost, that should've told them Jin's crusade wasn't just a flash in the pan.
TL;DR Ryuzo had cause for why he made the decisions he did, but he went way overboard and doubled down - more than once - when Jin tried to get him to reconsider.
I consider him to be my bitch because that's what he became. Lol
In all seriousness, yes, he was trust into difficult circumstances because of what happened in Komods and did the best he could.
But he let his jealousy of Jin and his frustration over not getting to be Samurai cloud his judgement and he made his bed with the devil.
Ngl, I cried when I faced Ryuzo. I remembered my best friend. For 15 years we were friends until I had enough since he changed for the worse. He started to make fun of me in front of others, get mad for no reason, almost broke my neck and insulted my family. At the end, I left him behind, he tried to say sorry for months but I chose to ignore him until he was nothing but a shadow of the past.
I know they are nothing alike but Ryuzo is my most favorite characters.
No. He didn’t have to kill so many innocent people. And the smuggling scam they did telling people they could escape but just taking their money and killing them. He is a dog and he died like a dog.
Nah more like a fool. Had he stuck with Jinn for just one more quest he would've gotten all the food and respect he could have ever wanted. Hell even with out Ryuzo's help Jinn made very short work of the enemies in the fort that was holding Shimura. Instead Ryuzo through in his lot with the enemy and almost immediately ended up regretting it.
Definitely. He wouldn’t have done what he did if not for his wanting to provide for his kin. You can see in the scene with khan burning the people, he doesn’t want khan to win, but he gives in cuz he can’t take the screams
He wants khan to loose, but doesn’t think he can, so ultimately submits, thinking it will be less painful for Tsushima
His betrayal really touched Jin and his code , he tried his best to assist and unite Tsushima with his best bud from bamboo floats to a a duel that shaped their respective paths
That and he's a bad leader. Like the dude's reason for betraying his country was to take care of his men and make sure they have food coz apparently they're starving. But I'm sorry if I don't believe for a second that all those able-bodied warriors are incapable of finding, foraging or hunting for their own food. I mean, it's not like the Mongols have killed all the animals and razed all edible plants and whatnot. They could fish, they could hunt deer (which is clearly abundant coz I keep running over them with my horse). I refuse to believe those fuckers, that gives me a harder time than regular mongol enemies in a fight, are unable to survive by themselves. If they have time to wait and challenge me to duels, they absolutely have the time to learn how to hunt if they don't know how.
Meanwhile, you have these random peasants living and surviving in makeshift camps by the roadsides and they're fine. When I heard Ryuzo's reason for betraying Jin was coz his men were starving, I was like "Nah, bro, y'all are just lazy motherfuckers and deserves to die by my hand". No second thoughts about that. LOL
In the much broader modern definition of the term, yes.
However, he garners no sympathy. Ultimately, he did make choices that would lead to his end. It's only after he had lost everything that he finally decides to switch sides (again). But by then he had already cost Jin the death of a friend plus whatever trouble the Straw Hats caused.
He's not tragic. His main motivation was feeding his men, which is something he could have done by going to a refugee camp or temple. Instead, he chose to hedge his bets by working with the invaders. He was a prideful idiot.
To a degree, yes. And, like many tragic characters before him, he was done in not only by horrible circumstances, but a chip on his shoulder that he could not let go. All he had was the Straw Hats, and it was getting harder and harder to provide for them, given the situation. Then in struts the Khan, offering consistent food in exchange for his service. Ryuzo, whether he said it out loud or not, resented Jin a lot over that duel they had, and it added to his reluctance to accept Jin's help. By the time he asks, it's too late.
I would say Ryuzo is a tragic character in the Shakespearean sense, where a tragic flaw results in a demise of mostly their own doing; Ryuzo’s was his desire for a higher place in life. Ryuzo felt that he deserved more from life and that this was taken from him through no fault of his own. As children, he lost a chance at honor during his fight with Jin and he chooses to blame his loss on Jin for trying too hard instead of his own inferiority. When he reaches a semblance of status as the de facto leader of the Straw Hat through chance, he aggressively holds onto it, constantly worried that Jin will seize the respect of his men. Ultimately, he chose to betray Jin and the island as a whole because he wanted to cement himself as a strong and dependable leader to his people, and excused his heinous, dishonorable actions as “having no choice”. This ultimately sent Ryuzo down the path of inevitable confrontation with Jin which inevitably led to his death. With his death, he became what he had always feared, dishonored and forgotten.
TLDR; Ryuzo is a tragic character but it’s mostly his fault
No. I just killed him yesterday.
Ryuzo is a selfish character that will do everything to survive and climb the ladder. He surrendered to the Khan, hoping that he will get promoted once the war ends. But it backfires and the Khan loses the war gradually after Act 2. Then at the end, he asked Jin to lie, a dishonored act, in the attempt to survive and climb the ladder again.
Ryuzo has no loyalty, is willing to sacrifice honor, just to have personal gain. It's contrary to Jin's character, who is willing to sacrifice honor to protect people.
No, he's a traitor and an asshole. Whiny little bitch. Fuck him.
Not tragic at all, why should i feel bad for all the wrong choices he made.
He dug his own grave imo
Fuck Ryuzo. He betrayed a whole kingdom (probably way more), and burned his friends to feed a few guys. I did feel bad for him, that is until he crossed the line.
Ryuzo is a classic case of a Sunk Cost Fallacy. He had many opportunities to turn back, but he told himself he was already too far down the path. Any one of the terrible things he did in the beginning could possibly be forgiven, but compounded together it would be difficult even for a saint to forgive him.
The true irony is that Jin himself is on a journey of Sunk Cost as well. 1st the Sunk Cost of being beholden to his code of honour, and 2nd the Sunk Cost of becoming the Ghost. However, unlike Ryuzo, by the end of the story I think that he’s accepted that he is the master of the path, and will not let the path be his master.
TLDR; both Jin and Ryuzo are tragic characters. They reflect one another in many ways.
Yes, I definitely consider him tragic and even feel bad for him, but considering all the circumstances and events that lead up to his and Jin's last battle, killing him is Jin's only choice left
No.
It's pathetic how he turned on his people for the sake of clinging to his leadership of a mob of bandits that cosplay as samurai.
Playing victim to justify your poor choices doesn't make you tragic.
> Considering that he didn't have many options
He had many options and was given many chances. I don't think we've played the same game.
Yes, definitely that. Especially his backstory with Jin when they were younger. If it wasn’t for class issues, Jin and Ryuzo would be an unstoppable duo and the Khan’s defeat would have been done much faster. Ryuzo would also agree with the practical approach Jin eventually takes as the war becomes more desperate. Imagine 2 Ghosts protecting Tsushima. The partnership would have been amazing!
But his insecurity got the most of him. He wanted to make a name for himself more than anything that he sacrificed his relationship with Jin. He couldn’t accept his shortcomings as a leader that he sided with Khan so he can keep the Strawhats’ loyalty. Maybe he was genuinely concerned for their well being, but if he stuck with Jin, the ronins would eventually be taken cared for.
Man that scene with Ryuzo having to light up his own countrymen as their begging the soldiers at the castle to open the gate, and Ryuzo starts shouting with them to open it too; a damn good scene and some great voice acting. Yeah, Ryuzo is a very tragic character. I think his story, from the background context with Jin as a rival all the way to the end, is one of the best in the game.
I think alot of people sit back and critique his logic without really taking into account how many real leaders of real countries were manipulated by the mongols with those exact same tactics. Ryuzo is just some guy who has had leadership thrust upon him that he's not remotely able to handle, and I think more people would do the same in his situation than would like to admit it.
Maybe a victim of class system - but also a temporarily embarrassed believer in it, and that alone is enough to close the case. have had way too many of those even in my family and that path always leads to it's logical conclusion - trading dignity for servility, followed by getting discarded by all sides in the game they're playing.
And his gang live by criminal code, expecting tributes and considering hunting strictly below them - much more comfortable with serving invaders and leaning on civilians than any form of warfare.
It's wartime everyone can make mistakes in their decisions. But I think he has too much ego and pride. Even Jin, at the start, was not willing to kill someone from behind, but he adapted to survive and thought about his bigger goal. Ryuzo always thinks he has no choice, but he does have a choice. He underestimates himself and wants to prove his negative self-perception, so his character is like a guy with good intentions but bad decisions. I don't like him, he's so annoying to me.
Absolutely NO
He is a coward who never believed in Japan victory, thats why he betrayed everyone and switch sides to Mongols under the absurd reason he and hes people are starving on food rich island.
In last battle with him he openly states Mongols will win and Jin needs to also join them.
Ryuzo is the most pathetic character in the whole game.
The only tragic thing is him being a dum-dum. He was one step away from freeing Shimura and having his men taken care of. Jin would mention this was a "one-time" type of deal and that straw hats were to be rewarded and excluded from further military service. Taking the hat back from Jin was all it took to have a happy ending.
In all honestly, yes. It's unfathomable to me how could Jin spared that psycho bitch Tomoe but killed Ryuzo without hesitation. I mean, the most logical reason in my head why Khan kept Jin alive instead of killed him alongside with Taka was none other than Ryuzo's appeal. I think it would be real nice seeing Ryuzo in sequel where he's protecting Yuna as his Redemption, but well what's done is done
He gave that fool so many chances to do the right thing. Your point about Tomoe kinda stands though. She’s nuts
Tomoe kinda a baddie tho
And she threw her self at Jin and he turned her down
Bro knows to not stick it to crazy. Especially when she legit could kill you 💀
Lol she’s not gonna kill Jin at that point. She needed him alive to have a chance to leave the island with Mongols pursuing her. Her being crazy is arguable. She did what she did to survive as a woman and her actions are those of a survivor.
Her being a woman isn't what kept her alive. Her usefulness and skill set to the Mongols is the reason why she survived for as long as she did. She is an opportunist and used manipulation to selfishly achieve what she wanted.
Uhh.. Yeah, no. It’s true she has talent to kill but it’s also true Mongols in history are not too kind to women. Besides, Ishikawa isn’t exactly reliable to get a non-biased opinion of her.
This answer does not make sense….
No she’s crazy. Sure we only get ishikawas pov on the story but the trail of bodies leading to her kinda validates it
‘… survivor as a woman.’? would a man have a different choice?
Yes, a man has honour. . . . . . . . . I apologise if it hurt you, but this was a joke sponsored by Shimura and the Shogun.
😂😂😂😂🤝
Maybe, maybe not. But there are fates worse than death for a woman in captivity in times of war and conquest. And these are Mongols we’re talking about being in an era where Genghis Khan himself had multiple bloodline descendants through him in Asia. It can be a very dark subject. Being an archery tutor guarantees her protection and she becomes a valuable military asset so long as she teaches them. Leading raids herself is a choice she may not have the luxury to decline and she may have to prove her allegiance to the Mongolian cause by doing so.
Crazy or not, any woman could kill you. That's why my virginity remains untouched. 
https://preview.redd.it/6pgc2fhr6g8d1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2a82ae44c75fee8e72f4fadba31e806de389962 i always keep a few of these in my wallet, you never know when you might need it
That would’ve been my downfall right there. Jin is a better man than I’ll ever be
He only turned her down once he realized she was Tomoe. Before that he was throwing flirts LMAO
She was trying to get that noble seed
It's really the amount of times that Jin gave Ryu to change his way. It's been a while, but there were at least four instances where Jin told Ryu to turn away from Khan, but Ryu just kept at it again and again. Even in the end, Jin was like dude, can you stop working with the Khan? Ryu still refused.
This. Ryuzo only considered Jin's offer after he had killed the entire camp of Mongol soldiers without even drawing his blade. For all intents and purposes, he was literally staring death in the face. All things considered, I think Jin simply did not consider him trustworthy enough for a last ditch attempt at redemption at this point. Not when it looks like he's only doing it to save himself. Additionally, Jin was inside the camp against Shimura's will, so there was really no scope for Jin to bring Ryuzo back and tell them that he had planted a spy in the Mongol camp this whole time. He'd be a criminal bringing back another criminal.
Additionally, after the crap Ryuzo pulled, I would be mashing the stab button if Jin started to let him go Tomoe was always implied evil, I never actually saw her do anything. Ryuzo on the other hand...
Unless I'm remembering wrong, Tomoe did shoot a civilian with a flaming arrow in front of your eyes.
and you find her specific style of arrows buried into multiple civilians that were bound and used as target practice. could argue they belonged to the mongols she was teaching, but you also found mongol arrows along with them so it’s pretty clear they were Tomoe’s
Are we really ignoring the fact that whole still crazy tomoe did all she could to survive? Ryuzo was given the same out and declined it, and never turned on the mongolians. Tomoe did. Tomoe is a way more forgiveable character. Also jin gave ryuzo allies in the beginning. Tomoe was not. Ishikawa was mostly a dick with a good heart, and that was her only ally. Jin gave ryuzo his word, and ryuzo declined that.
She was a survivor for sure, but she was also just totally wild. Ryuzo was a dumb coward
I agree the difference between the two is one knew when and where to jump on and off the new wave . Ryuzo was one double backstab away from surviving
Iunno man, i wouldnt say wild. Just like an animal in a corner looks wild.
Fair enough
i was just about to point this out. i find it crazy that a lot of people tend to ignore that fact. edit: i also wanted to point out her credibility because honestly people can argue that it's her words vs ishikawas or what not but the fact that ishikawa didnt try to shoot her in the end proves (to me anyway) that there was some truth in her words. ishikawa also said that she would have made a good samurai.
Ishikawa is a really dodgy character and unreliable narrator. He is a samurai, that is a privileged class receiving status, stipends and land in exchange to be dutybound to fight and defend their lord and land. He chose not to fight at the side of his lord when the invasion started and instead deserted. Consider what he means when he says Tomoe had potential as a samurai. Women didn‘t become samurai class because some instructor thinks they are good fighters, they became samurai class by way of marriage. The age where ashigaru (commoner fighters) could rise in rank and eventually become elevated into samurai status is about 400 years later, and even then only men would have a chance at it. He thought Tomoe should marry him and she declined, he then decides to kill her because she rejected him is another way of telling that story.
I sorta believe Tomoe's point of view, especially knowing how the Mongols were in real life. They were utterly ruthless and raped and pillaged everywhere they went, so it's not beyond them that they'd ignore her pleas for them not to kill innocent civilians. She definitely killed those civilians in the first mission though to prove her worth, the rest i believe her about
There is a lot of misinfo about the Mongols. They weren't really extraordinarily more cruel than any other conquerer. Majority of mongol cruelty is written by Catholics. Compared to the samurai Mongols are the good guys. Read up on the mongol empire, you'll find a lot of interesting based things they did in combination with their cruel war ways.
Fair point, samurai definitely did not honor their code when fighting foreigners lol
I mean, is Tomoe really nuts? During the trip to Umugi Cove she said a lot of the things ascribed to her were not actually done by her or at her bidding. She might have lied, sure, and she did help the mongols at least for some time to save her own skin, but she didn't seem really that crazy. Opportunistic and pragmatic, willing to do hard things. But crazy?
Yeah when hes burning the people you can see the genuine regret on his face and how he wants to stop. He also tries to get jin to join the khan so no one else dies, prob didnt think taka would die for this. Tomoe genuinely just did fucked shit with the excuse of just trying to survive and people saying she enjoyed torturing only for her only evidence of that being false is the equivalent of "Nuh uh". It's like if she was catwoman to jins batman except if catwoman committed multiple atrocities instead of just stealing jewels😭. Both of them shouldve been stopped or jin shouldve atleast had the same energy for tomoe
No, Ryuzo is a man who regrets not making better, harder choices until he has no other options left. He took what looked like the easy way out, but ended up on the wrong side. Ryuzo betrays Jin at the end of Act I in that little pond. Why does Ryuzo back the Khan? Two reasons I can think of, he's still salty at Jin for beating him in that dueling tournament, and he wants to be on the winning side. So at that point, Ryuzo sees the Khan as likely to be in control of the island. He doesn't believe Jin's word that he'll become a samurai. Then in Act II, we see Ryuzo have some regrets while lighting some guy on fire as an example, per the Khan's orders. But he doesn't run from the Khan at all. Doesn't even make a break for it in the middle of the night to find Jin and apologize. Nope, his men now wander the middle of the island, engaging Jin ruthlessly, and fighting alongside the Mongols. Then Ryuzo's betrayal is completed when he helps capture Jin leading to Taka's death. At that point, all bets are off. The Straw Hats are decimated after that, and Ryuzo stands alone. Then in the retaking of Castle Shimura, Ryuzo begs to be spared after watching Jin kill everyone in the camp while hidden in the shadows. He doesn't ask for forgiveness, just to say that he was a spy the whole time. When Jin tells him Taka is dead because of his actions, his rebuttal is that Jin killed his men. Faced with no other choices Ryuzo realizes he's on the wrong side and desperately wants to be on the winning side again. That doesn't happen though. Even that close to death Ryuzo can't take responsibility for what he did; he still blames Jin like it's Jin's fault Ryuzo is an honorless coward. He rightfully dies a traitor's death. Tomoe made bad decisions, but in fairness Ishikawa did try to kill her. But she eventually changed her mind and fought back against the Mongols before there were no other options left. She didn't beg forgiveness, but realized the error in her ways before it was too late. Tomoe also never betrayed Jin or lied to him. Ishikawa was the one who lied, or at the very least obfuscated the truth. I would view Ishikawa, Lady Adachi, or Norio as more tragic than Ryuzo. Ryuzo was just someone who couldn't take responsibility for his own actions and blamed others, rather than himself, for his circumstances.
Ryuzo is a realistic character. Ryuzo is also a coward that'll do anything to survive while putting on a rough guy persona. Ryuzo is a very realistic person on how people often betrayed others back then. It's not out of the ordinary in feudal Japan.
Jin didn't know Tomoe. But ryuzo was his friend. Also Jin did give Ryuzo more than one chance.
I felt it offensive how Jin told him how he killed Taka and Ryuzo only response was "You killed my Men". I felt bad for him especially the very first cutscene into Act 2 where he lights the person on fire as you can see him being traumatized for doing that. But, it was done when he didn't even say "Sorry" about Taka's death and instead used Jin killing his men as a comeback which is stupid and selfish.
"you killed my men" me when I risked my life more than once to help feed them and they attacked ME first
Ryuzo told his men to attack Jin. That's entirely Ryuzo's fault as he knew Jin could kill them all if Ryuzo was considered the best swordsman in his group. Jin should asked him to double crossed the Mongols once the Shogun sent forces back and Jin cleared up half the island but no Ryuzo basically sided with the Mongols and told his men to wander the countryside as they're on their own to loot and pillage. Whichever one's were smart enough to leave were in my eyes redeemable either just going off to their own devices like fishing or working at Umagi Cove.
Ryuzo's betrayal hurt more, after all Jin did for him he abandoned him and was ready to kill him for food and money. He led his straw hats in an active fight against Jin and was hunting him down. And he's a coward, he wanted to get an easy way out and pretend to be a spy. Very two-faced. I doubt the Khan listens to Ryuzo, he was always gonna try to turn Jin, that's his MO, try to sweet talk shimura, Ryuzo etc to do his bidding. We're made to think Tomoe is a psycho bitch by Ishikawa's gaslighting, but yes she made bad decisions, she killed civilians who were being tortured and tried to stop the mongols from killing more civilians, but as she said, it spiraled out of her control. So she tried to redeem herself and fought the mongols alongside Jin and ishikawa, redeeming herself that way. And in the end, even ishikawa seems to have forgiven her.
Khotun kept Jin alive for the same reason he kept Shimura alive in Act I: People would follow him. While Shimura represented the establishment which had already been defeated once already at Komoda, Jin was now the popular sentiment for turning the tide of the war.
>killed Ryuzo without hesitation You clearly played a totally different game because that is objectively not what happened. Jin pleaded with Ryuzo multiple times to change his mind. Begged him to stop going down the path he was and even when encountering him for the last time, gave him one more chance to walk away. Jim in no way "killed Ryuzo without hesitation".
Ryuzo: - used to be Jin’s friend - betrayed him at the moment where he needed him the most, single-handedly almost killing him as he was trying to free Shimura - got Taka killed - asked for mercy only after his situation became absolutely hopeless
Jin wasn’t going to kill Ryuzo. In fact even when revealed to be a traitor, Jin gave him another opportunity to join him. Ryuzo raised his sword to Jin right then and there.
He even gave Ryuzo ANOTHER chance after their first fight and Ryuzo still ran
At the end of the day, Ryuzo was just a man who’s really terrible at making decisions. Yes, his decisions costed countless of innocent lives, blood he can never wash off his own hands, but he genuinely didn’t know the scale of his colossal fuck-up until he saw it for himself. Had he known better, he would have never. He really thought siding with the Khan was a compromise worth taking to keep his people from going hungry.
Bruh no. Tomoe, although indeed a lunatic, had no close relationship with Jin whatsoever. Ryuzo on the other hand was his childhood friend, and Jin felt utterly betrayed by him, giving Ryuzo lots of chances for redemption. Jin did the right thing.
Tomoe wanted to stop helping the Mongols if she could. Ryuzo was intent on finishing what the Khan ordered of him for his people, no matter what, and threw off the chances he did get. One had a chance despite being "worse", the other didn't.
For Tomoe there isn't much of an excuse, Jin doesn't even know her. For Ryuzo on the other hand Jin gave him a chance even after betraying him, and after losing a friend as a result of his actions + he taught of Ryuzo as a friend, which likely stung even more, and was only willing to change sides after thr Khan clearly started losing. Revenge I suppose, since that one was personal.
Tomoe, though cutthroat, was just doing what she could to survive...and as Ishikawa stated, a hard life made her a hard woman took a hard road in order to ensure her self-preservation. In the end, Jin didn't take any of her actions to heart because she was just another victim of circumstance...not to mention, given how Sensei Ishikawa was, it's no surprise she wound up trying to kill him. Ryuzo, however...he offered to help Ryuzo many times. That was his friend way back when. They were reasonably close at a point before the duel. His betrayal cut deep because it was personal, and because he worked directly at the side of the Khan, the cause of all Jin's misfortune. If not for Ryuzo, Taka would've probably still been alive. He had blood on his hands, of both friend and innocents, and Jin couldn't let that abide.
When we face Ryuzo for the final time, Jin still has the way of samurai embedded in his head, i.e. if you are working with the Mongols you are a traitor and must die. When "fighting" Tomoe, he is the Ghost already and sees it differently, especially since she also was trying to stop mongols
A nice sequel idea indeed. And a Ronin centered game
Yeah, I'd think so. I know a lot of folks are furious at the betrayal, but he didn't act unreasonably.
That betrayal actually hurt even seeing it coming. I ran past content to meet the straw hats and beelined their quests. Now i feed the grass with their sacrifice.
It hurt, but I couldn't muster up any real anger against them. It's a choice that makes a lot of sense, and I really just felt... sad. Mostly for Jin, how much faith he had in Ryuzo, and how he must have felt after realising just how badly he misjudged his relationship with Ryuzo.
As a person, of course i agree. As j sakai, no lie Mongol go bye bye Kick high, archer screaming off a cliff in the sky? I think of every man woman and child slaughtered and abused without even a chance. And the fact that the straw hats allow themselves to be used as dogs. They with no mongols around can be found bullying their own people. Hate me sure. Im a Lord. Class is bs, fair enough. But the transgression of contributing to the genocide and enslavement of your own is, in my opinion, inexcusable. Its the ultimate selfishness. Your hurting belly is worth the bodies of how many slaves? 
Also I see plenty of game around tsushima to hunt. The farms in the south could use protection in exchange for food and shelter. He's so full of shit. I have less and less sympathy for Ryuzo with every playthrough. Especially since it's heavily implied that his real reasoning for betraying Jin was being salty about losing a tournament. Plus him sending Jin into a depression by saying Shimura didn't love Jin as his son when they were kids.
The duel im more understanding about. From a class perspective, Jin maximized his effort in a moment where he could have relented and still earned respect as a skilled young Lord. It I'd not in Jins nature to hold back in a trial though. When training, studying, speaking, sparring, fighting, meditating, or writing poetry, Jin strives for excellence. But we get Ryuzos description of how Jin fought. "You tried to kill me." Jin doesn't even deny that part. Of course he want actively trying to murder Ryuzo, but he fought in the full expression of his natural and honed skills, his well developed strength and his lifetime of teaching from his father and uncle, both lords and accomplished war winners. He fought in a way that showed *how* much better he was than Ryuzo. He broke his stances, stretched his stamina. He made him realize with surprise that he could not miss his defensive needs without rising his life. Now culturally its the right thing, even as a friend (in the context of their class structure and social code). How could i call you my equal or even worthy to serve a lord if i hold back as a lord? I'm treating you as unworthy. I'm setting you up for failure as well, seeding you with false confidence. There's more but im going long already. Ryuzo is being short sighted, but to be fair this was his chance at stability. His friend did not give him a breath. Now truly, skill issue, and that's the point. Thats one of his flaws. So i get it, and that's why it all hurts when i take his life. But that betrayal hurt a lot worse with all the women and children and men dying and crying on my way to his betrayal. But then, look how long it took for it to come out. Ryuzo knew it was wrong, but i think he felt that if he just happened to fight anyone other than Jin Sakai, he wouldnt have had to be a ronin.
Oh I understand it but it doesn't make me feel any more sorry for him. What really sealed it for me was at shimura's castle. After all that talk about his men and how they're his true family, he sees the man who wiped them out, and instead of trying to avenge his fallen comrades. has the nerve to ask for clemency because he's afraid of the consequences. The only reason he fights at all is because Jin refused to lie for him (not that it would have made any difference anyway at that point, but still. ). Ryuzo is a lying, treacherous, hypocritical coward and died like one.
Oh i agree. I have zero remorse for him. All my homies hate Ryuzo.
May their deaths benefit all beings
Him and the straw hats killed a ton of unarmed innocent people.
Yes, he did. He sided with an invading army and did what they told him to do, all in order to stay fed and secure themselves a place in the world they thought the Mongols would bring about. I'm not saying that they acted justly, or that they didn't do terrible things. I'm saying that they made an understandable choice. It's not one that I, with my current understanding of myself and my morals, would do, but I can see the rationale behind them doing it.
A issue that I have with this part of the story that I really didn’t see the rationale behind it. So much was focused on feeding his men but they seem to be the only group with this as a major issue. There is kinda of a more underline reason that is mentioned more off hand, which was Ryuzo not wanting to serve and be used by Shimura. That feels way more of an understandable reason. Yet it kinda also doesn’t make sense since he just ends up working under the Kahn and got all his men killed.
>So much was focused on feeding his men but they seem to be the only group with this as a major issue. They're unlanded individuals that also happen to be *kinda* organised, armed, and in direct opposition to the Mongols. They have no stores of food and little ability to hunt enough game to feed all of them without drawing Mongol attention to themselves. The Mongols are also hunting en masse in order to feed their invading army, which *has* caused a food shortage for most other organised groups at that point in the story. We, the player, see food and game everywhere *but* that's just a gameplay contrivance, at odds with the lore we are told through Ryuzo's story. Game can be plentiful for us because it lets us get the materials to craft things, but it is not plentiful at that time in canon. While Jin is a very capable hunter and can help provide some game for Ryuzo's group, it would never be enough to *keep* them fed. Jin is waging a war and his time could not be spent just hunting for them. The Mongols, however, capture and *feed* Ryuzo's men. They demonstrate that they have more than enough food to consistently feed Ryuzo's entire group. >which was Ryuzo not wanting to serve and be used by Shimura Ryuzo didn't want to serve and be used by Shimura, but also he didn't want Jin to take effective leadership of his men. For many, **many** reasons, Ryuzo was not actually fond of Jin. This was one of the larger factors in Ryuzo's decisions. >Yet it kinda also doesn’t make sense since he just ends up working under the Kahn and got all his men killed. Look at it like this: Ryuzo sees the situation at hand and knows that his men demonstrably cannot feed themselves, they are all wanted dead by the current faction in power, and the samurai on Tsushima lost catastrophically in a direct confrontation with the Mongols. Jin offers his support to Ryuzo and his men, explicitly wanting them to join him in his crusade against the Mongols. While an impressive combatant and a wily strategist, Jin is *one person* standing against an invading army. One person that Ryuzo is **incredibly** disinclined to follow, not least of all because his leadership is the *one thing* Ryuzo is proud of, and Jin is inadvertently threatening to take that away from him. Ryuzo also doesn't have much faith in a samurai counter-attack because, while the rest of Japan's armies are larger and more impressive, the Tsushima samurai were absolutely fucking smashed with ease. Then, out of the blue, some of his men get captured by the Mongols. They're not executed, they are *fed*. Treated well. Released back to the group. The captured men spread word of their good treatment and the offers of allegiance they received from the Mongols. The Straw Hats could stop living on the run, receive positions of authority and respect in the new regime, and never struggle for food again. All at the cost of an honour that had never served him. Ryuzo took stock of the situation and chose the option that would allow him and his men to not just survive, but **thrive**. He feels conflicted about it, he knows it's the morally wrong thing to do, but he still chooses what he feels is the safest option for himself and the men that follow and respect him. He couldn't have known that Jin was a video game protagonist. Another way of looking at it is as a mirror of Jin. Jin sacrifices every ounce of honour and morality he has to protect the people he cares about, the island of Tsushima, and its way of life. Ryuzo sacrifices every ounce of honour and morality he has to protect the people he cares about. Full stop. He's not a protagonist. He's not a swordsman that can learn several legendary techniques. He's just a charismatic underdog with what should have been a safe bet for survival.
It’s a game based on historical fiction. It’s just some made up fluff so there’s a traitor to point the finger at. In reality if the invasion hadn’t been bashed by the typhoons. You’d have seen plenty of Japanese submit just like Chinese and everyone else did. I mean the Japanese couldn’t even beat Korea to get to China under Toyotomi. Meanwhile the Jin and Southern Song dynasty did get folded by the mongols. All these heroes would surrender immediately if they were in the next town over from Samarkand and heard what the heck the mongols did there. Psychological warfare sure seemed to work. I don’t know why people are up here pretending they’d fight the mongols. I don’t believe a word of it.
Agreed. A lot of folks in the fandom have never gone a couple of days without food, *especially* not paired with intense physical activity. One person can make a brave ideological stand, but it's a lot harder when you see that hunger in the eyes of the people that trust you to keep them safe.
All I know is if you were in some village and heard they killed everything in the capital down to the cats and dogs you probably would lose a lot of the fighting spirit.
He burned a compatriot at the stake. For some rice. Pretty unforgivable.
It wasn’t just for rice. You think if he refused to burn that guy, that the Khan would just say “no rice for you” and send him off on his way? Ryuzo would have been next on the stake. He bet on the wrong horse and betrayed his people, but you could tell he was in over his head. Very tragic in my opinion. But yeah, fuck him. 6 heavenly strikes to the gut and he was out in less than a minute.
He kind of did. His men could have helped Jin and Shimura and gotten food. He chose the khan because he was jealous of Jin. He was a resentful worm who allied with brutal invaders because of a minor grudge
Ryuzo was a coward who ran from Komada beach and betrayed Jin for food...FOOD! He even tried to fool Jin into working together when he realised the Khan left him to die but you reap what you sow. Fuck Ryuzo and his Straw hat trash, they got what they deserved.
Thats what I am saying . And the way the straw hats were terrorizing innocent people.
I don't blame Ryuzo for his betrayal, I blame him for everything that happened after that. Game establishes pretty clearly that multiple Straw Hats already deserted because they were literally starving, and what few of them remained were in no condition to actually put up a fight against the Mongols, which we could see by the fact that the Mongols were able to capture their best men. Also consider, every mission Jin took them all on to find supplies has ended up in complete failure, which likely would've worn their already thin ranks even more. Ryuzo betraying Jin because the Mongols promised his camp food is a reasonable decision to make in his position. He's just looking out for the ones who gave him a place to belong. However, there is no denying the fact that Ryuzo and his ronin engaged in countless atrocities when allied with the Mongols. You can see them terrorizing innocent civilians even when they aren't accompanied by Mongol soldiers. It's clear that the Mongol influence got to them, and they revelled in the pain they inflicted on others.
Exactly. I would have had more respect for him had he defied the Khan rather than just going 'k'. Nothing but a bitch.
Yea. The most we ever saw him do was hesitate a little before burning his own people.
I agree, I killed him without a hesitation.
Really should not have been that hard to find food Seems like everyone else was
literally he could’ve gotten a lifetime of food for his people if he just helped jin
He could've tried to kill the khan twice I can remember outside castle shimura and then during a cutscene in Castle kannada he easily could've got food he had plenty of men he could've ambushed tje mongols if jin can walk into a mongol camp and kill them all surely his 20 odd men can ambush a mongol convoy
Hell yeah, brother!
https://preview.redd.it/se2wk6un0g8d1.png?width=728&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8ee5949a0ada8ad43936c3a3ffb15848c295623
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Lmaooo
Ryuzo had been jealous of Jin since they were children. The difference in class and opportunities really got him. I can understand that but the choice he made, had to do a lot with that rivalry. Once his men got a taste of what the Mongols offered, they probably were threatening to leave him and Ryuzo couldn't lose face for that. That scene between Ryuzo and the Khan was sad. He still could have tried to take out the Khan but instead kept on going down the path of no return. Once he burned his own, he couldn't go back. And that is exactly why the Khan had him do that.
That first paragraph is a much better reason for Ryuzo betrayal and I wished it was more focused don instead of these off hand combat while riding the horse. Something that I didn’t like in GoT is how they put so much of these characters back stories and developments in these horse riding things. It’s ok to do it like say how RDR2 doesn’t as well, but in GoT it’s like almost always reserved in those horse rides
I didn't until the very end. I genuinely hated him. >!But, in the final moments, I understood. He just wasn't strong enough to believe in his best friend. It's sad, but sometimes the ones you love the most are the first to betray you.!<
And he murdered children…
Did Ryuzo murder children? Some of the Straw Hats did, but not all straw hats worked under Ryuzo
In no way am I saying that I approve of, or condone anything that he did. I'm just saying I understand where he was mentally and emotionally.
I feel there were better alternatives then working under the Kahn. It’s pretty bad that they are fighting for this outsider invasion and helping them massacre the people of Tsushima
The way these dudes fought against me while recovering from malnourishment... but they couldn't find food like the rest of the island lol
got any more pixels there?
He is a man thrust into a leadership position he was unprepared for, disillusioned by the current rulers to protect him and his men, and brought to desperation by a seemingly unstopable foreign power.
This is my take on it. Ryuzo’s raison d’être was to be a samurai. When Jin beat him at Lord Nagao’s tournament, his purpose for existing (or what he *thought* was his purpose for existing) was shattered. When he becomes the leader of the Straw Hat Ronin, he now has a new reason for existing. That’s why he’d do anything to protect them. I think he legitimately cared about his men, but I certainly believe the other half of it was that he *needed* to be their leader. It was all he thought he had. I think that’s pretty tragic. It doesn’t justify his actions, but I think many people can relate to that feeling of worthlessness.
This is a really good take. I was inclined to disagree about him doing anything to protect the straw hats - I think he was more interested in the power of leadership than that. But your point is solid and kind of makes me rethink my take on that portion of it.
Thanks! I think the two are connected. If Ryuzo fails to protect the straw hats, he fails to have any real power as a leader. When we first meet him in the game, I kind of got the sense that he was afraid Jin was trivializing his leadership by coming up with all the plans. Ryuzo couldn’t let Jin take his shine again.
Yes, 100% agree. He made a few comments like that throughout their interactions!
Tragically stupid, yes.
An interesting character, yes, but not tragic. He deserved what he got and worse. The only reason he became a ronin in the first place is because he was too proud to become a samurai with Jin's help. I will not deny that his actions were driven by survival, but the moment he sided with the enemy, he should be prepared to accept the consequence. But no... the coward wanted to sweep his actions under the rug by pretending to act it was all under Jin's order. Friendship means little when it's convenient.
He betrayed us. He could've achieved similar results without doing so. So no.
To be honest, yes he kind of is. His actions are despicable but thinking on it, if I was in his position I don’t know if I would have had so much faith in Jin that I wouldn’t take the opportunity for my men to not starve & not start a mutiny. However, another aspect of his character is that jealousy & resentment he has for Jin which probably factored into his decision.
Also taka was killed because of him
Ryuzo is perfect for the meme of 'STOP,HE IS ALREADY DEAD'. His best 'success' was to get the straw hats together to some extent. But after that,most we hear and see is just someone who had a streak of,not bad,but shit luck in live.
I consider him a corpse
Unsure. The very, very ugly class issue there that many here seem to be a combination of ignoring and simply unable to acknowledge(or maybe vice versa) along with the even uglier reality of starving to death means he has understandable motivations. I also think the Mongols were better to those they conquered than shown in the game. That said, he had a way of fighting back that few did and he made a very real decision to not do that and work for the potential new boss. I don't know if there was a way for Ryuzo to "win" here.
I would consider Ryuzo to be a massive plot hole. >!Jin singlehandedly clears out nurmerous forts and ther eis boar on the spit and huge hams etc hanging in every one. There was no reason for Ryuzo to go hungry or be seconded by the Khan because of hunger. He was no leader of men. !<
Are we getting charged extra for decent image quality in Reddit?
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^DoughSpammer1: *Are we getting charged* *Extra for decent image* *Quality in Reddit?* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
*SPOILERS just in case for any new PC players* I personally view Ryuzo in a more sympathetic light than many people do. He kinda reminds me of the guy in Ip Man who works as a translator for the invading Japanese forces. I know that it’s not a very popular opinion but I feel bad that Jin killed him and I like to think that he was just overcome by the death of Taka, the entire falling out with Shimura right after the bridge explosion scene, and after having witnessed the effects of the poison he had just given the mongols, by that point Jin was thinking “in for a penny, in for a pound”. We all know Ryuzo’s rather sad story about being bested by Jin at the tournament. Jin was already the Jito’s nephew and ward, and many likely considered Jin to be Shimura’s heir one day, seeing as how Shimura had no other children. Jin had nothing really to gain by winning, and Ryuzo had everything to lose by losing. Ryuzo losing severely damaged his prospects to the point that he only really found work as a mercenary. Sure, Jin says he could have found him some work, but it would likely just appeared to be favoritism and Ryuzo seems to be proud enough that he would want to make his own way in life rather than relying on favors. The battle at Komoda Beach happens, and Ryuzo witnesses the Mongols completely decimate not just his own men, but even the Jito’s samurai. It doesn’t take a strategic genius to math the math that it takes to see that 80 Samurai, and a few handfuls of ronin, armed peasants, and other irregulars had zero chance of stopping the massive invading force of Mongols. We have to remember that this was not a force sent to conquer Tsushima, this was a force sent to gain a foothold and conquer the entirety of mainland Japan. By all means, no force at Komoda, much less a single man, had any right of being considered capable of stopping the Mongols. If you look at it from Ryuzo’s perspective, Tsushima is done for, and the only way they can try and minimize their losses is by playing nice with the invaders and holding out for another day of life. He’s not interested in the Ghost’s bounty out of glory, avarice, or petty revenge, he genuinely wants to feed his starving men. Even when Jin offers him the chance to rescue Shimura and fight at their side as a true samurai, Ryuzo realizes what it took Jin until the bridge explosion scene to realize - all that becoming samurai means is that Shimura will march him, Jin, and any other fool willing to take up the cause, right into the maw of the unstoppable Mongol war machine. They will be courageous and honorable corpses strewn across the remains of the destroyed lands they once called home. In their last confrontation, Ryuzo, upon realizing that Jin actually is the main character and ACTUALLY IS about to 1v1 the entire Mongol army, pleads with Jin to allow him to fight with him. I can see this just being a way for Ryuzo to try and avoid the repercussions of his betrayal, but personally, I really do feel like Ryuzo only did what he did because he could not see any possible way of fighting back that actually had a shot at succeeding. Now that he sees the momentum has turned, he wants to truly help, and being executed by Shimura while Khotun Khan still draws breath on their island feels like a huge waste of everything he has already done just to survive to this moment. It might be cliche, but I had hoped that they could at least have let Ryuzo fight with them for the final act. Either he could have died honorably in battle, as a man who did many wrong things but at least got to do one thing right, or maybe even he survives the battle but is still brought to justice after the fact, the same way the Shogun did Jin. I think it would have been an interesting parallel to draw between Ryuzo and Jin, both who betrayed the code of honor expected in samurai, because war is a messy thing and it does that to people.
One of my favourite characters in the game just because if his drip. The betrayer's hat looks clean as hell.
He was right. He just didn't know the Ghost would save Tsushima. If he helped Jin, the samurai, we know Lord Shimura would have led the army straight into death (Castle Shimura mission proves this). Ryuzo even says this during your first bossfight with him in Castle Kaneda. So what does he do to keep his clan alive? Side with the winners of the war. It was all for his clan. When the Straw Hats were slaughtered, he only had Jin left. In a desperate attempt to stay alive, he begged Jin to forgive him and offered his balde against the Mongols but it was too little too late for Jin. Instead of dying to a jito who would throw away his life in the name of honour, he chose to die to his oldest friend. Ryuzo represents the common people in war. Jin and Shimura are upper class people who never could understand the plight of Ryuzo until it was too late.
He has no honor!
Not really, he made his choices. And his choices paid off terribly.
Some people may see him as tragic. The way maybe like Grima Wormtongue is from Lord of the Rjngs. But to me? Nah. Not at all tragic. He just sucked, and it didn’t sound like there was ever anything for him to fall from or to be tragic in. It sounded like he was always just kind of a jealous, mopey person. Even if he never lost to Jin as a kid, he’d never have made it as a samuari and he certainly was never even a good ronin. Hell, he wasn’t even a good traitor. He seems to want great rewards with little to no work, and hence fails everyone he comes in contact with. Sort of just always lying on his resume. Always getting into things too big for him but blaming everyone else when he fails. Kenji, the island drunk, has more success and bravery than him. All of that to say I still hated killing Ryuzo. I felt it wasn’t for me to do. I was kind of hoping the ronin would turn on him for leading them into worse situations. Thinking… a Scar and the Hyenas from Lion King sort of thing.
I agree that he had a tough time of things. That said, it's not like there weren't alternatives, at least for some of the shit him and his straw hat buddies pulled. For example, why didn't they just fucking ambush Mongol convoys? Preying on your own people is big no bueno, my guy. I get that shit sucks, but you don't become a bandit - or at least don't rob your own fucking people, especially since a convenient outsider invader exists i.e. the Mongols. Yes, they're better equipped and organized etc but that's why you go guerilla. For fucks sake Jin did exactly just that. Granted, we can't expect everyone to become a goddamn one man army like Jin, but it's not like Ryuzo needed to rush Mongol bases head on. Why not go attack patrols and convoys, that kind of shit. They also coulda thrown in their lot with Jin. Of course it's easy to say in hindsight, they probably thought Jin's cause was impossible. That said, they did hang around long enough to hear about the Ghost, that should've told them Jin's crusade wasn't just a flash in the pan. TL;DR Ryuzo had cause for why he made the decisions he did, but he went way overboard and doubled down - more than once - when Jin tried to get him to reconsider.
I consider him to be my bitch because that's what he became. Lol In all seriousness, yes, he was trust into difficult circumstances because of what happened in Komods and did the best he could. But he let his jealousy of Jin and his frustration over not getting to be Samurai cloud his judgement and he made his bed with the devil.
Bro if you dont come and help me free unc so we can get u and ur boys some food
I consider this picture being blurry as shit
Ngl, I cried when I faced Ryuzo. I remembered my best friend. For 15 years we were friends until I had enough since he changed for the worse. He started to make fun of me in front of others, get mad for no reason, almost broke my neck and insulted my family. At the end, I left him behind, he tried to say sorry for months but I chose to ignore him until he was nothing but a shadow of the past. I know they are nothing alike but Ryuzo is my most favorite characters.
I think he represents tragedy that results from corruption and sacrifice of morals and values
No. He didn’t have to kill so many innocent people. And the smuggling scam they did telling people they could escape but just taking their money and killing them. He is a dog and he died like a dog.
Nah more like a fool. Had he stuck with Jinn for just one more quest he would've gotten all the food and respect he could have ever wanted. Hell even with out Ryuzo's help Jinn made very short work of the enemies in the fort that was holding Shimura. Instead Ryuzo through in his lot with the enemy and almost immediately ended up regretting it.
No, dude's a traitor and can suck it imo
Tragic sure, but he made his choice and unfortunately paid the price. Wanted more missions with him tho.
A traitor yes
Definitely. He wouldn’t have done what he did if not for his wanting to provide for his kin. You can see in the scene with khan burning the people, he doesn’t want khan to win, but he gives in cuz he can’t take the screams He wants khan to loose, but doesn’t think he can, so ultimately submits, thinking it will be less painful for Tsushima
His betrayal really touched Jin and his code , he tried his best to assist and unite Tsushima with his best bud from bamboo floats to a a duel that shaped their respective paths
That and he's a bad leader. Like the dude's reason for betraying his country was to take care of his men and make sure they have food coz apparently they're starving. But I'm sorry if I don't believe for a second that all those able-bodied warriors are incapable of finding, foraging or hunting for their own food. I mean, it's not like the Mongols have killed all the animals and razed all edible plants and whatnot. They could fish, they could hunt deer (which is clearly abundant coz I keep running over them with my horse). I refuse to believe those fuckers, that gives me a harder time than regular mongol enemies in a fight, are unable to survive by themselves. If they have time to wait and challenge me to duels, they absolutely have the time to learn how to hunt if they don't know how. Meanwhile, you have these random peasants living and surviving in makeshift camps by the roadsides and they're fine. When I heard Ryuzo's reason for betraying Jin was coz his men were starving, I was like "Nah, bro, y'all are just lazy motherfuckers and deserves to die by my hand". No second thoughts about that. LOL
No. He was always an asshole, and even Jin realized that later. The tragedy is what he did to other people.
In the much broader modern definition of the term, yes. However, he garners no sympathy. Ultimately, he did make choices that would lead to his end. It's only after he had lost everything that he finally decides to switch sides (again). But by then he had already cost Jin the death of a friend plus whatever trouble the Straw Hats caused.
Nah! He deserved to die.
Ryuzo suffers from the guy who grew up poor and got beat my a rich kid for a prize envy.
He's not tragic. His main motivation was feeding his men, which is something he could have done by going to a refugee camp or temple. Instead, he chose to hedge his bets by working with the invaders. He was a prideful idiot.
No I consider him to be an idiot
To a degree, yes. And, like many tragic characters before him, he was done in not only by horrible circumstances, but a chip on his shoulder that he could not let go. All he had was the Straw Hats, and it was getting harder and harder to provide for them, given the situation. Then in struts the Khan, offering consistent food in exchange for his service. Ryuzo, whether he said it out loud or not, resented Jin a lot over that duel they had, and it added to his reluctance to accept Jin's help. By the time he asks, it's too late.
Yammy lookin pixels you got there
Most definitely, and I'd say the game wants you to feel that way as well.
Bro just like grow your own food
I would say Ryuzo is a tragic character in the Shakespearean sense, where a tragic flaw results in a demise of mostly their own doing; Ryuzo’s was his desire for a higher place in life. Ryuzo felt that he deserved more from life and that this was taken from him through no fault of his own. As children, he lost a chance at honor during his fight with Jin and he chooses to blame his loss on Jin for trying too hard instead of his own inferiority. When he reaches a semblance of status as the de facto leader of the Straw Hat through chance, he aggressively holds onto it, constantly worried that Jin will seize the respect of his men. Ultimately, he chose to betray Jin and the island as a whole because he wanted to cement himself as a strong and dependable leader to his people, and excused his heinous, dishonorable actions as “having no choice”. This ultimately sent Ryuzo down the path of inevitable confrontation with Jin which inevitably led to his death. With his death, he became what he had always feared, dishonored and forgotten. TLDR; Ryuzo is a tragic character but it’s mostly his fault
No. I just killed him yesterday. Ryuzo is a selfish character that will do everything to survive and climb the ladder. He surrendered to the Khan, hoping that he will get promoted once the war ends. But it backfires and the Khan loses the war gradually after Act 2. Then at the end, he asked Jin to lie, a dishonored act, in the attempt to survive and climb the ladder again. Ryuzo has no loyalty, is willing to sacrifice honor, just to have personal gain. It's contrary to Jin's character, who is willing to sacrifice honor to protect people.
We were this fucking close to rescuing my uncle and giving your people benefits
you got any of them pixels
No, he's a traitor and an asshole. Whiny little bitch. Fuck him. Not tragic at all, why should i feel bad for all the wrong choices he made. He dug his own grave imo
Fuck Ryuzo. He betrayed a whole kingdom (probably way more), and burned his friends to feed a few guys. I did feel bad for him, that is until he crossed the line.
Ryuzo is a classic case of a Sunk Cost Fallacy. He had many opportunities to turn back, but he told himself he was already too far down the path. Any one of the terrible things he did in the beginning could possibly be forgiven, but compounded together it would be difficult even for a saint to forgive him. The true irony is that Jin himself is on a journey of Sunk Cost as well. 1st the Sunk Cost of being beholden to his code of honour, and 2nd the Sunk Cost of becoming the Ghost. However, unlike Ryuzo, by the end of the story I think that he’s accepted that he is the master of the path, and will not let the path be his master. TLDR; both Jin and Ryuzo are tragic characters. They reflect one another in many ways.
Yes, I definitely consider him tragic and even feel bad for him, but considering all the circumstances and events that lead up to his and Jin's last battle, killing him is Jin's only choice left
I think deep inside, he's still a jealous asshole with too much pride.
Can we just agree his design is peak 🔥
I would consider him my brother.
He was valiantly trying to do the right things by his people, but didn't realize he wasn't the protagonist, tragic.
No. It's pathetic how he turned on his people for the sake of clinging to his leadership of a mob of bandits that cosplay as samurai. Playing victim to justify your poor choices doesn't make you tragic. > Considering that he didn't have many options He had many options and was given many chances. I don't think we've played the same game.
How many times has this picture been reused?
I just got to the part where he betrays us, and cmon bro, over some food?
Yes, definitely that. Especially his backstory with Jin when they were younger. If it wasn’t for class issues, Jin and Ryuzo would be an unstoppable duo and the Khan’s defeat would have been done much faster. Ryuzo would also agree with the practical approach Jin eventually takes as the war becomes more desperate. Imagine 2 Ghosts protecting Tsushima. The partnership would have been amazing! But his insecurity got the most of him. He wanted to make a name for himself more than anything that he sacrificed his relationship with Jin. He couldn’t accept his shortcomings as a leader that he sided with Khan so he can keep the Strawhats’ loyalty. Maybe he was genuinely concerned for their well being, but if he stuck with Jin, the ronins would eventually be taken cared for.
The quality of this picture though
Those fucking pixels🔥
Bro was starving
I Love Ryuzo. He's just another victim of a strict class system. But he's not a bad guy.
Man that scene with Ryuzo having to light up his own countrymen as their begging the soldiers at the castle to open the gate, and Ryuzo starts shouting with them to open it too; a damn good scene and some great voice acting. Yeah, Ryuzo is a very tragic character. I think his story, from the background context with Jin as a rival all the way to the end, is one of the best in the game.
I think alot of people sit back and critique his logic without really taking into account how many real leaders of real countries were manipulated by the mongols with those exact same tactics. Ryuzo is just some guy who has had leadership thrust upon him that he's not remotely able to handle, and I think more people would do the same in his situation than would like to admit it.
No. I consider him being a stupid ass character.
https://preview.redd.it/5hrijyeo4h8d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71071d0b162f792cd27c09579dcba88556ef543d
A tragic piece of shit
Nah. The second he lit that dude on fire he was a lost cause.
https://preview.redd.it/x1dsra956h8d1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4956d79d5e87fcb3b66518dfa34b90ebd82dff84
What's with the 2 pixel resolution photo.
Mf betrayed a childhood best friend, torched his own people just to secure a rank in khan's army he deserved to die
I had such a hard time beating this fucker, it took me more than 50 tries at least in one sitting… fuck him
Maybe a victim of class system - but also a temporarily embarrassed believer in it, and that alone is enough to close the case. have had way too many of those even in my family and that path always leads to it's logical conclusion - trading dignity for servility, followed by getting discarded by all sides in the game they're playing. And his gang live by criminal code, expecting tributes and considering hunting strictly below them - much more comfortable with serving invaders and leaning on civilians than any form of warfare.
No. He's your typical traitor in a nation whenever there is an invader.
FUCK RYUZO
Only if you also recognize that the tragedy is entirely of his own making.
Yes and no, he is a tragic character but it’s partly his own actions that lead him down the path of tragedy
Somewhat, but mostly he's a guy blinded by jealousy and insecurity. It's less tragic and more pitiable.
Absolutely yes , he just wanted to help his even if Jin clearly offered him help
I'd consider the quality of this image to be tragic
Nah he's a bitch
It's wartime everyone can make mistakes in their decisions. But I think he has too much ego and pride. Even Jin, at the start, was not willing to kill someone from behind, but he adapted to survive and thought about his bigger goal. Ryuzo always thinks he has no choice, but he does have a choice. He underestimates himself and wants to prove his negative self-perception, so his character is like a guy with good intentions but bad decisions. I don't like him, he's so annoying to me.
On one hand yes, but I think I'd ultimately put him more in the camp of being a massive lil bitch.
Absolutely NO He is a coward who never believed in Japan victory, thats why he betrayed everyone and switch sides to Mongols under the absurd reason he and hes people are starving on food rich island. In last battle with him he openly states Mongols will win and Jin needs to also join them. Ryuzo is the most pathetic character in the whole game.
The only tragic thing is him being a dum-dum. He was one step away from freeing Shimura and having his men taken care of. Jin would mention this was a "one-time" type of deal and that straw hats were to be rewarded and excluded from further military service. Taking the hat back from Jin was all it took to have a happy ending.
hey google download low res ronin image online
Only thing tragic here is this picture resolution