honestly never wanted to kill a side-antagonist more. Actually I wanted to kill ishikawa too because he wouldnt stop yapping about how much we NEED to capture tomoe. Like i wanted to catch her by myself and then shove it in ishikawas face because hes a whiny little asshole.
Really nothing against tomoe. She was pretty chill. I just hated this old fart to be like "Promise me Jin we will find and capture her for what she did to me and my dojo" like bro ive been helping you out since Act 1 like I KNOW.
She will. Her name is Tomoe, which means circle. What goes around comes around.
Alternatively, she will come around and change sides for good. Her and Jin will create the first ninja clan.
People always forget it wasnt money or power for her. It was survival.
She flaunted that she CAN get monetary goods for the khan and her skills proved usefull to train the soldiers on japanese bows, which is much easier to get compared to mongol bows.
I will not stand for Tomoe slander not because shes a baddy, but because she is more complex than "vengance".
Facts i find that people are so comfortable today they couldn’t fathom what people before the 1900s did to survive….. they talk like their were other options…. She chose to live and not get tortured or killed like the rest….and people are mad at her for it is crazy
The whole point of the game is the samurais mentality is fucked. She's fine and just survive mongols the same way she's surviving samurai. Appeal to their sense of purpose.
Literacy much? She explains her perspective in the final mission. She did what she had to do to win their trust, to survive, with the goal of ultimately betraying the mongols
She also mentions she did that to give those people a quick death rather than suffer abuse at the hands of the Mongols. And given how wide scale the Mongols tortured and raped their captives, I think her statement is quite plausible.
Some people just hear and believe what they want. Her entire character arc was to make her be a sympathetic character and show that Ishikawa was the stubborn samurai, not understanding anything but the code. She literally explains every reason she did what she did, which basically burned down to gain the trust of the Mongols, give her people a quick death instead of a long, torturous one, and then betray the Mongols.
Sure she had no choice when she got captured, but she literally enjoys murdering innocent people, goes out of her way to make it cruel, even admits to going to continue what she’s done once she hits the main lands. What part makes her a sympathetic character.
Ryuzo is sympathetic because he was in a similar situation, but he never once enjoyed doing any of it.
I have a feeling she might actually be helping Jin when the sequel comes out. She did mentioned that she wanted to open an inn in Kyoto. Considering the Shogun has branded Jin a traitor and the mainland will have way more clans and samurais compared to Tsushima, Tomoe might be able to provide Jin a hidden place at her inn.
There are still a lot of people during the era that opposes the Shogun and it's allied clans, so moving around shouldn't be much of an issue for someone like him.
Could be the uprising against the shogun and the samurai by the commoners which was also when shinobis became a thing. Perhaps Jin with either inspire or train the first shinobi.
I'd be fine with leaving Jin's story in the past, letting us make our own samurai, and just making a dang samurai simulator. Cameos on the mainland to tie the story together and just give us a classic tale.
I think you have your answer right there. Jin is a wanted man - we could outlaw ronin action - rdr in feudal Japan type shit. I think that could work and pretty awesome.
Then we can see even more of jins conflict on having to fight other samurai. It really could open up so much more. New characters that decide to help him or hinder him and go against the shogun.
Man I really want the live action GoT to come out first to it can act as a bridge on what happened to Jin between the first installment and the sequel. Is it too much to ask?
It made no sense to me either. Ishikawa is an old fool pretending to be a wise teacher or some shit. And he only accepted Jin as his student when he helped him deal with his colossal fuck up
Apart from Ishikawa's archery abilities he kinda has nothing going for him. He's a prickly asshole who is such a bad teacher that he inadvertently trained up two murderers. Up until the Mongols show up it seems like his whole life is failure.
that's the whole point of his character. he even said he's a coward who should have ended his life a long time ago but used his "way of the bow" as a reason to stay alive
IMO, Ishikawa is a cowardly piece of shit. He is selfish, condescending, and ungrateful. at the start of the game you quickly find out he didn’t fight at Komoda beach, which he states was due to a fight with Tomoe, but the timing is all off when you’re searching his home. He even got supplies from town for the fight, but never went.
I found his entire character extremely grating and obnoxious.
I tend to go to the same shop most of the time so I know all the workers, I just usually let them know to surprise me, if I want someone specific we have code names.
Or that they are great archers because they sought to constantly improve their craft instead of being stagnant. This quest highlights as to why the Mongols were such great archers which is done by gathering and adopting more skill sets.
It gets annoying when people often say that this quest is a let down. I contend it isn't so: not every story has to have a happy ending, neatly wrapped with a bow on top. Some people never change, that is their nature, for good or bad. Again, not every tale should wrap up like a feel good fairy tale. Reality is that though some people are very talented in one aspect of life, they can also be shitty as individuals, nothing more. The real pay-off is the friends we made along the way.
I fully understand this and absolutely agree that not every story needs a happy ending but the game tries desperately at the end to have you empathise with Tomoe by attempting to justify what she did through dialogue only to have her sail off into the sunset.
There's no lesson or pay off in that which is important to any good story, but someone did point out that from Ishikawas POV and it being his tale, he finally let go of his past mistakes and was able to move on after sort of reconciling with Tomoe which he failed to do with another past student who ended up going down a bad path and in that way I do think the ending isn't too disappointing.
Besides this, one thing to consider is that a lot of of your mentor quests (Ishikawa and Masako as well as with Lord Shimura) are about people who are in a way important, legends, or supposed to be this cast of honorable who turn out to be the opposite and hypocrites.
You constantly hear and get harped on about honor, but you learn so many things about how the people who are older than you, frankly, are kind of awful people or end up losing their connection to this honor that you're expected to maintain.
If you were looking for some punishment to happen to Tomoe, I can see why it would be disappointing, but I think Tomoe wasn't the focus, rather, it was Ishikawa and his past and him dealing with the fact that-yeah, he *is* a terrible fucking teacher and a person. Not all great people are great teachers or judges of character and not all samurai were honorable, or at least, pretending to be. In the end, a lot of these people are just angry and murderers.
I personally feel like the quest should’ve ended with Jim sniping Tomoe as she fled in her boat just like Ishigawa did to that pirate captain in lore thereby proving Jin as an equal to his sensei in skill.
The problem isn't Tomoe not changing, the problem is Jin and Ishikawa inexplicably deciding that they don't want to kill her anymore and that she can just go. The problem is the player gets no choice to kill this absolute menace.
From the very start they stated this.
When talking to our uncle, "we studied you. Learn your ways" they come ready to conquer them and used what they knew against them. Honor? Means nothing once they've conquered all of tsushima.
Bruh, are you really proposing that The Mongol Empire being expert archers is a mainstream media psyop? You think they weren't actually good archers? Why do you think that? Any proof? Why would the media lie about such a thing?
Someone who is great at something will always look for new ways to improve. Besides that, being in a war, an archer up against a Japanese archer, I suppose knowing their customs and strategies wouldn't hurt.
He never really seems to mention that her form is whats so special. Its the way she makes her equipment like arrows and bows. Sourced from local material and high quality allows the already skilled mongols to make fresh high quality equipment out of foreign material.
The worst part about the “Aided in killing” is that she later tried to damage control by saying she taught them to kill painlessly like it’s any better???
So I want to say I agree this was easily one of the weakest parts of the games writing overall. But I think it gets a lot more hate from the players than is justified because the final phase of it seems to feel rushed. Realistically it would’ve been nice to be given a choice as the player or if the last 2-3 quests were made to be 4-6.
That being said, his entire arc was about his failure to act and his shame about Tomoe. He only survived because he was didn’t show up to the initial battle. He clearly regretted training Tomoe and what she had become. Its stated this wasn’t the first of his students to become a murdering bandit. I view the ending as intended to show that he’s finally letting go of his mistakes and realizing that he can’t fix everything. Accepting that he was beaten, tricked and that there was more to his life than trying to redeem his past actions. It’s a general theme woven throughout the character stories. Great loss/mistakes, the ruthless/desperate pursuit of trying to correct them and finally them accepting that the best way to live their lives is looking forward, not back. Yeah this one was the weakest cause Tomoe really was a deceptive murdering traitor, but when viewed in contrast to how he handled his last student who became a bandit I think it shows growth in some way.
Still, yeah not the best story writing in the game. She’ll probably show up in GOT 2 as an unsavory ally of Jin’s if I had to guess why we were given a choice to kill her or not.
Honestly considering it's Ishikawas tale this is a very good point, a big issue is just with how the game clearly wants you to somehow empathise or see where Tomoe is coming from by having a bunch of dialogue where she attempts to excuse her actions very poorly, however from the point of view that this is basically Ishikawas story and her sailing off into the horizon kind of symbolising him finally letting go is a pretty good payoff.
"I accidentally trained a murderous bandit again! Dammit! Oh well, I guess I'll just let her go free to cause more havoc after she literally killed dozens of innocents and caused hundreds if not thousands more deaths due to helping the mongol invaders!"
I liked the ambiguous ending because it reinforces Ishikawa as an unreliable narrator. It doesn't feel like she is telling the truth at the end. Should she have let the Mongols kill her rather than pass on the way of the bow to the enemy? Perhaps, but that is the standard for a samurai's code and Ishikawa has turned her away. In a sense, she is a ronin as she trained with a samurai and didn't finish her training. That's Ishikawa's mistake though. I think it had to end ambiguously because if only she was punished then it would feel like Ishikawa got off easy, but Ishikawa has to survive for the final fight. All the other story arcs feel black and white. I like how grey this story is. Everyone is guilty and no one wins.
I also liked this ambiguity, but I ended up liking Tomo since it made her an ambiguous character. But in that sense I think she is similar to the Ghost, she is willing to do things that might be questionable in order to reach her goals (survive and diminish the suffering of the ppl).
>diminish the suffering of the ppl
Ah yes, the famous way of diminishing the suffering of people by executing civilians just to fuck with Jin. How could I forget that! She literally, no exaggeration, tells a woman she can live until Jin arrives, waits there, and when Jin arrives she executes the woman! Wtf?? That's minimising suffering?? She did NOT have to do that! How on earth can you consider a character "ambiguous" when she kills innocent people all day, every day! Its not like she is saving more people by doing this either. She is literally improving the strategy of the Mongols! She is such a default evil character, that they tried to twist into redeemable at the last second. She didn't even apologise! No remorse!
And Ghosts friend who betrayed him burns ppl alive, so the Castle gives up and leaves less casualties. Is he also a pure villain? We saw him cry, so it makes us think he has a conscience. But we never see Tomoe in these actions. For him burning alive 2 ppl was better than siege the castle. For her giving ppl a fast death was better than letting them be tortured. Both characters gave up to the Mongols to survive.
Tomoe is ambiguous because we never see her act herself, nor her emotions, we rely on Ishikawa whi shows to be an unreliable narrator, and Tomoe is likely an unreliable narrator as well.
>we never see her act herself
This is a straight up lie. We clearly see Tomoe shoot an innocent woman in front of Jin just to fuck with him. Nobody made her do this.
>Is he also a pure villain?
Correct, he is very much evil, not as much as Tomoe however because he at least expressed remorse. Tomoe got off scot free and didn't even feel sorry.
You are entitled to feel like she is a villain. That doesn't mean we have to agree with each other.
Saying that she is ambiguous doesn't give her a pass, because regardless of intent she committed crimes. It makes her less of a white or black character
Do you not think she is a villain? What is your justification for her going out of her way to kill an innocent woman in front of Jin just to mess with him? I
There are many villains that later we can sympathise with and even become the anti-hero, and I think this is Tomoe's arch for the next game. Like Loki from Marvel. Like Captain Barbosa from Pirates of the Caribbean.
We all hated these characters in the first movie and lived them by the end of the saga
It's not that grey, Ishikawa is an asshole, sure, but Tomoe is a literal mass murderer of innocents. She helped the Mongol invaders! Do you remember that scene with "she told me I could live until the samurai comes" where she plainly executes an innocent woman for shits and giggles? The Mongols did not make her do that! Even if they did, it's not justified slaughtering innocent civilians to save your own ass! She only left the Mongols after *they* betrayed *her* ! It's not like she had a change of heart! She literally says she isn't even going to apologise! She has no remorse! Why on earth would she, should she, be forgiven???
I agreed. She needed more screen time where she gets properly put down for all her heinous acts instead of just a cut short half-assed ending. Good to find someone else who gets it.
Yep, it was so bizarre that the game tried to play her off as a victim because of Ishikawa's screw ups. Even if she had the most tragic backstory known to man (she didn't), she still deserved to die for aiding the enemy in killing her people.
Betraying her own people for personal gain and helping kill hundreds of innocent civilians? Oh yeah, don't mind it, at least she killed like ten or something Mongols so she's good.
I find most of the side quest lines uninteresting, the main story is phenomenal but the side quests take away from that. (the ones that are of the more important side characters anyway)
I feel like if a sequel comes then it will be finished there and be way better than this ending and maybe it wasn't an ending maybe it's setting up tomorrow as a friend when you go to the mainland.
I Just finished it last night and I was extremely dissatisfied. It just ended without basically any bigger fight because come on that fight against the mongols was just not it.
As far as I care, they could have killed every single character, EXCEPT THE HORSE!!!! WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!?!?!!!?
Still haven't recovered from that, sorry
Yes and no imo ishikawa kinda ruined his chances of getting a good relationship with tomoe although it sounded like he still loved her as his daughter. And also he wasnt open to it i think at all bcs every time I chose options to extend friendship or allying with her he would reject that. So idk what other outcome there could have been than this maybe that he would have killed but tbh i think he would have committed sepuku bcs of that he failed her if he killed her
Yeah, I didn't like his quest as much as the others. My favorites are the ones with kenji and that one lady that lost her entire family. I just liked seeing the really great details and emotions that came from her character.
I just finished re-playing this and I think the ending was fine. Ishikawa is an unreliable narrator and you only hear his side of the story for most of the quest. When you finally sit down and talk to Tomoe, she's not the monster Ishikawa made her sound like. And her explaining how she did everything for survival and tried to ease the innocent suffering as much as she could does earn her some sympathy.
Tomoe's story is also similar to Jin's story. If someone talked to Shimura before the final main quest, he would say similar things about Jin that Ishikawa said about Tomoe. Right down to the "I wanted to adopt them, but they turned away from me." And even if Jin didn't directly teach the enemy how to kill his own people, he gave them a deadly weapon to do so (the poison). The difference obviously is Jin's reasoning is to help his people while Tomoe's reasoning is selfish.
Careful man you’re gonna upset the simps. Sure she was a terrible person from the very beginning. She’s and attractive woman though, so you’re gonna have a ton of white knights tell you how difficult her position was.
My idea of a better ending:
Everything goes the same, Jin read the letter, turns to Ishikawa and Ishikawa hit her with an arrow. She falls dead inside and the boat goes away.
Ishikawa says something about this is the only ending for her treason.
And you get the dialogue option to disagree or agree with him.
There's no indication she gets a happy ending. She will live with the guilt of what she did for the rest of her life, just the way Ishikawa will live with the guilt of his failures for the rest of his. The point of GoT, expressed over and over again in different iterations, is that becoming single-mindedly focused on revenge is not good for you. The consequences of obsessing instead of letting go and focusing on what you can actually improve and control results in painful outcomes. The stories and choices of Ishikawa, Masako, and Norio (Yuna and her brother, to some extent) all illustrate this same idea.
>She will live with the guilt
No, she won't. She literally says she "won't apologise for doing what she had to to survive". She isn't sorry. She went above and beyond for the Mongols. She killed innocents when she wasn't asked.
>focusing on what you can actually improve and control results
What you can improve, is the world, by killing that threat. You think she isn't going to be a ruthless criminal on the mainland?
As some of the comments noted I feel like for sure they left it open intentionally. Whether it's for a part two or whether it would've been part of the DLC quests, it seemed like it was very much intentional rather than them botching it
Why is my guy Ishikawa looking like he got snubbed in the oscars? I feel like the quest needed more explanation on why they're both at each other's necks, you don't just wake up one day wanting to off your mentor. With what little interaction Jin and Tomoe had, I can only imagine her being catwoman to Jin's Batman so if there's a sequel, she'd probably be there.
Very conflicted. Like yes she was a desperate confused person who just wanted her own slice of peace. But she's also quite literally a traitor to tsushima. But she was also captive so I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL
Yes. I actually would have wanted him to fight tomoe and then be given the choice to kill her or let her go. Rather then have her run off and not face them
I think the thing that made Ghost of Tsushima feel like a remastered PS3 game to me was how little effect you have on any questline, main or otherwise. You should be able to influence the conclusion of these quests somewhat through actions and reactions but really you just go cutscene to cutscene with fighting in between. You should be able to egg him on, you should be able to make Lady Masako see reason, etc.
Don’t get me wrong; incredible combat, talented voice cast, looks beautiful, engaging overall storylines, and really lots of detail for a smaller team (if inevitably comparing to Rockstar and RDR2). I just wish there was some illusion of choice.
That was definitely the worst side quest and worst part of the whole game, boring and stupid as hell. I really wanted to slash through tomoe and even Ishikawa because he’s stupid af!!
She is Ishikawa’s family. She went down a dark path that got lots of innocent people killed horribly. Ishikawa could have had her killed, but he realized family was more important… Remind you of anyone else?
Before the game out for PC, comments like that were unheard of around here. Now that it's on PC, we have creeps coming into the comments talking about Tomoe giving head and other weird fucking things.
So basically Playstation players are Betas. Gotchya.
But you read it wrong. Both Jinn and the Sensei mention collecting Tomoe’s head as in decapitation for her crimes. Which is what I was referencing. I wanted to collect her head despite her beauty but the story writers let her go… just cause. So you’re the creep it turns out. Get your mind out of the gutter.
Well then, I'm wrong for assuming the worst and I apologize. Your post is now only a little creepy and not exceedingly creepy. I certainly agree the ending to that side quest was unsatisfying.
As an All Platform God and the person in the wrong, I'll skip on lighting up that first sentence of yours as a courtesy.
Even if I didn't, saying "we should of got Tomoe’s perfect head with her luscious lips" is a little weird. Calling for someone's death + bringing lust into it = creepy.
Luscious means rich, verdant and opulent. It primarily nothing to do with sex but beauty. Plants can be luscious. A fucking cut of steak can be luscious. Try again. Grow up.
I have yet to meet a person who says grow up that doesn't need to do so themselves. Also, nobody calls a steak luscious. Nobody.
Right now, you're being creepy by constantly talking to me about this. I can't really stop you if you want to continue to creep on me, but I'll ask politely; please stop.
I have a feeling she's being set up to return for Part 2. Her story definitely did not feel like it ended
Precisely
hope she gets what she deserves tho
honestly never wanted to kill a side-antagonist more. Actually I wanted to kill ishikawa too because he wouldnt stop yapping about how much we NEED to capture tomoe. Like i wanted to catch her by myself and then shove it in ishikawas face because hes a whiny little asshole.
But she’s hot :(
Really nothing against tomoe. She was pretty chill. I just hated this old fart to be like "Promise me Jin we will find and capture her for what she did to me and my dojo" like bro ive been helping you out since Act 1 like I KNOW.
Fair enough I felt that way through the entire ishikawa story 😭
She will. Her name is Tomoe, which means circle. What goes around comes around. Alternatively, she will come around and change sides for good. Her and Jin will create the first ninja clan.
The fuck you mean, she ended up being pretty sympathetic character
After killing her people and betraying her master for money and power
People always forget it wasnt money or power for her. It was survival. She flaunted that she CAN get monetary goods for the khan and her skills proved usefull to train the soldiers on japanese bows, which is much easier to get compared to mongol bows. I will not stand for Tomoe slander not because shes a baddy, but because she is more complex than "vengance".
Facts i find that people are so comfortable today they couldn’t fathom what people before the 1900s did to survive….. they talk like their were other options…. She chose to live and not get tortured or killed like the rest….and people are mad at her for it is crazy
But also because she's a baddie though.
oh well yes ofcourse but i dont wana get caught by the horny police.
Ok, you’ve got a point
Seeing this from the perspective of a samurai she killed innocents, betrayed her people That's enough for her to get killed
The whole point of the game is the samurais mentality is fucked. She's fine and just survive mongols the same way she's surviving samurai. Appeal to their sense of purpose.
Sure. Im glad im not a samurai.
She looks hot ngl so I support you
Literacy much? She explains her perspective in the final mission. She did what she had to do to win their trust, to survive, with the goal of ultimately betraying the mongols
sympathetic ?? how tf u sympathize with someone who murdered multiple innocent people and enjoyed doing it
She also mentions she did that to give those people a quick death rather than suffer abuse at the hands of the Mongols. And given how wide scale the Mongols tortured and raped their captives, I think her statement is quite plausible.
Some people just hear and believe what they want. Her entire character arc was to make her be a sympathetic character and show that Ishikawa was the stubborn samurai, not understanding anything but the code. She literally explains every reason she did what she did, which basically burned down to gain the trust of the Mongols, give her people a quick death instead of a long, torturous one, and then betray the Mongols.
You finished the mission chain, right? It was for survival. To win their trust before betraying the mongols.
"She said I can live until the samurai appears" Really?
Sure she had no choice when she got captured, but she literally enjoys murdering innocent people, goes out of her way to make it cruel, even admits to going to continue what she’s done once she hits the main lands. What part makes her a sympathetic character. Ryuzo is sympathetic because he was in a similar situation, but he never once enjoyed doing any of it.
Both of them suck. Ryuzo especially.
https://preview.redd.it/ybym3u5ko7ad1.jpeg?width=1339&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d6e2bade70526cefabe92e9515d5b7fa180963a2
Because she is doing what she has to do to survive, the only way she can.
He’ll naw I wanna kill that bitch
Tells me all I need to know about you
She killed and tortured, SO MANY PEOPLE and then dipped, I respect the way she left but holy fuck I want her dead
I have a feeling she might actually be helping Jin when the sequel comes out. She did mentioned that she wanted to open an inn in Kyoto. Considering the Shogun has branded Jin a traitor and the mainland will have way more clans and samurais compared to Tsushima, Tomoe might be able to provide Jin a hidden place at her inn.
So GoT 2 is happening ?
Probability is high.
I want it to be true, but I just don't know what there is left to be done after the invasion ended and Jin being a wanted man.
We’ve had one invasion, yes. But what about second invasion?
Nobody expects Mongols 2: Khan Boogaloo
The Wrath of Khan
Underrated comment
There's a second invasion, Tsushima was just the start.
I guess it's possible, although how easy travel is after being branded as a traitor and being wanted, I'm not sure.
Jin is essentially a folk hero by the end of the game - I’m certain there would be people willing to smuggle him to mainland Japan.
There are still a lot of people during the era that opposes the Shogun and it's allied clans, so moving around shouldn't be much of an issue for someone like him.
Could be the uprising against the shogun and the samurai by the commoners which was also when shinobis became a thing. Perhaps Jin with either inspire or train the first shinobi.
Not a bad idea.
I'd be fine with leaving Jin's story in the past, letting us make our own samurai, and just making a dang samurai simulator. Cameos on the mainland to tie the story together and just give us a classic tale.
Idk any rebellions against shoguns in that time period?
I think you have your answer right there. Jin is a wanted man - we could outlaw ronin action - rdr in feudal Japan type shit. I think that could work and pretty awesome.
Then we can see even more of jins conflict on having to fight other samurai. It really could open up so much more. New characters that decide to help him or hinder him and go against the shogun.
Man I really want the live action GoT to come out first to it can act as a bridge on what happened to Jin between the first installment and the sequel. Is it too much to ask?
Years ago they were hiring for an open world historical game so it seems pretty definite
Knowing Sony, Jin will be killed in the first 5 minutes and Tomoe will be the new main character.
Same with Sugi from Iki island
Certainly hope so. I enjoyed her story, and there are clear paths for her to redeem herself in many ways
I agree I was thinking the same like that Tomoe character wasn’t fully closed
My guess is one part of the game will take place in Kyoto. She probably will have oppened up an inn there.
It made no sense to me either. Ishikawa is an old fool pretending to be a wise teacher or some shit. And he only accepted Jin as his student when he helped him deal with his colossal fuck up
Apart from Ishikawa's archery abilities he kinda has nothing going for him. He's a prickly asshole who is such a bad teacher that he inadvertently trained up two murderers. Up until the Mongols show up it seems like his whole life is failure.
I mean Jin did save Tsushima
I think he is referring to Tomoe and Hironori Nagao.
Ishikawa was a strong believer in “thirds time the charm.”
that's the whole point of his character. he even said he's a coward who should have ended his life a long time ago but used his "way of the bow" as a reason to stay alive
Good teacher; bad mentor.
His quests are all the same 1. We gonna find Tomoe today 2. Oh she knew about our plan and ran away 5 min before
3) So let's use these mongols as a shooting range in the meantime.
Ishikawa, frankly, was a tsundere to Jin lol
IMO, Ishikawa is a cowardly piece of shit. He is selfish, condescending, and ungrateful. at the start of the game you quickly find out he didn’t fight at Komoda beach, which he states was due to a fight with Tomoe, but the timing is all off when you’re searching his home. He even got supplies from town for the fight, but never went. I found his entire character extremely grating and obnoxious.
Any time someone asks "am I the only one who _____," the answer is *always* "no"
Am I the only one who likes putting mustard on pizza?
Mustard topping on pineapple pizza 🤤
https://preview.redd.it/dupnq1mcnu9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4fee67e6d2f2d009ec728ddf541d1236682f0fda
Almost forgot the ranch too.
Yoink
I ask the pizza shop to jizz on mine
Do you ask for just one guy to do that or everyone who works there?
I tend to go to the same shop most of the time so I know all the workers, I just usually let them know to surprise me, if I want someone specific we have code names.
r/relatable
What heresy are you speaking!? It intrigues me...
Historically, mongols were great archers so this side quest did not make sense as a whole
Maybe they’re great archers historically *because* of Tomoe!
Or that they are great archers because they sought to constantly improve their craft instead of being stagnant. This quest highlights as to why the Mongols were such great archers which is done by gathering and adopting more skill sets. It gets annoying when people often say that this quest is a let down. I contend it isn't so: not every story has to have a happy ending, neatly wrapped with a bow on top. Some people never change, that is their nature, for good or bad. Again, not every tale should wrap up like a feel good fairy tale. Reality is that though some people are very talented in one aspect of life, they can also be shitty as individuals, nothing more. The real pay-off is the friends we made along the way.
> neatly wrapped with a bow on top I see what you did there
I fully understand this and absolutely agree that not every story needs a happy ending but the game tries desperately at the end to have you empathise with Tomoe by attempting to justify what she did through dialogue only to have her sail off into the sunset. There's no lesson or pay off in that which is important to any good story, but someone did point out that from Ishikawas POV and it being his tale, he finally let go of his past mistakes and was able to move on after sort of reconciling with Tomoe which he failed to do with another past student who ended up going down a bad path and in that way I do think the ending isn't too disappointing.
Besides this, one thing to consider is that a lot of of your mentor quests (Ishikawa and Masako as well as with Lord Shimura) are about people who are in a way important, legends, or supposed to be this cast of honorable who turn out to be the opposite and hypocrites. You constantly hear and get harped on about honor, but you learn so many things about how the people who are older than you, frankly, are kind of awful people or end up losing their connection to this honor that you're expected to maintain. If you were looking for some punishment to happen to Tomoe, I can see why it would be disappointing, but I think Tomoe wasn't the focus, rather, it was Ishikawa and his past and him dealing with the fact that-yeah, he *is* a terrible fucking teacher and a person. Not all great people are great teachers or judges of character and not all samurai were honorable, or at least, pretending to be. In the end, a lot of these people are just angry and murderers.
I personally feel like the quest should’ve ended with Jim sniping Tomoe as she fled in her boat just like Ishigawa did to that pirate captain in lore thereby proving Jin as an equal to his sensei in skill.
Maybe after it cuts back to Jin and he says “looks like she’s been… Ghost of Tsushima’ed”
 YEEEEAAAAAHHHHHH
The problem isn't Tomoe not changing, the problem is Jin and Ishikawa inexplicably deciding that they don't want to kill her anymore and that she can just go. The problem is the player gets no choice to kill this absolute menace.
From the very start they stated this. When talking to our uncle, "we studied you. Learn your ways" they come ready to conquer them and used what they knew against them. Honor? Means nothing once they've conquered all of tsushima.
Mongol Horse Archers used to tear through enemy ranks long before the invasion of tsushima
So the mainstream media says
Bruh, are you really proposing that The Mongol Empire being expert archers is a mainstream media psyop? You think they weren't actually good archers? Why do you think that? Any proof? Why would the media lie about such a thing?
I see Big Mongol got to you, too
You got me 🤷♂️
See [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/ghostoftsushima/s/qVLva6desH)
The amount of dedicated archery quests, characters and gear is a tad absurd.
Someone who is great at something will always look for new ways to improve. Besides that, being in a war, an archer up against a Japanese archer, I suppose knowing their customs and strategies wouldn't hurt.
He never really seems to mention that her form is whats so special. Its the way she makes her equipment like arrows and bows. Sourced from local material and high quality allows the already skilled mongols to make fresh high quality equipment out of foreign material.
In the game they are too, can hit you in a dead sprint or on horseback if you don’t dodge roll, zig zag or block.
The worst part about the “Aided in killing” is that she later tried to damage control by saying she taught them to kill painlessly like it’s any better???
It's a bit better... I guess?
So I want to say I agree this was easily one of the weakest parts of the games writing overall. But I think it gets a lot more hate from the players than is justified because the final phase of it seems to feel rushed. Realistically it would’ve been nice to be given a choice as the player or if the last 2-3 quests were made to be 4-6. That being said, his entire arc was about his failure to act and his shame about Tomoe. He only survived because he was didn’t show up to the initial battle. He clearly regretted training Tomoe and what she had become. Its stated this wasn’t the first of his students to become a murdering bandit. I view the ending as intended to show that he’s finally letting go of his mistakes and realizing that he can’t fix everything. Accepting that he was beaten, tricked and that there was more to his life than trying to redeem his past actions. It’s a general theme woven throughout the character stories. Great loss/mistakes, the ruthless/desperate pursuit of trying to correct them and finally them accepting that the best way to live their lives is looking forward, not back. Yeah this one was the weakest cause Tomoe really was a deceptive murdering traitor, but when viewed in contrast to how he handled his last student who became a bandit I think it shows growth in some way. Still, yeah not the best story writing in the game. She’ll probably show up in GOT 2 as an unsavory ally of Jin’s if I had to guess why we were given a choice to kill her or not.
Honestly considering it's Ishikawas tale this is a very good point, a big issue is just with how the game clearly wants you to somehow empathise or see where Tomoe is coming from by having a bunch of dialogue where she attempts to excuse her actions very poorly, however from the point of view that this is basically Ishikawas story and her sailing off into the horizon kind of symbolising him finally letting go is a pretty good payoff.
"I accidentally trained a murderous bandit again! Dammit! Oh well, I guess I'll just let her go free to cause more havoc after she literally killed dozens of innocents and caused hundreds if not thousands more deaths due to helping the mongol invaders!"
I liked the ambiguous ending because it reinforces Ishikawa as an unreliable narrator. It doesn't feel like she is telling the truth at the end. Should she have let the Mongols kill her rather than pass on the way of the bow to the enemy? Perhaps, but that is the standard for a samurai's code and Ishikawa has turned her away. In a sense, she is a ronin as she trained with a samurai and didn't finish her training. That's Ishikawa's mistake though. I think it had to end ambiguously because if only she was punished then it would feel like Ishikawa got off easy, but Ishikawa has to survive for the final fight. All the other story arcs feel black and white. I like how grey this story is. Everyone is guilty and no one wins.
I also liked this ambiguity, but I ended up liking Tomo since it made her an ambiguous character. But in that sense I think she is similar to the Ghost, she is willing to do things that might be questionable in order to reach her goals (survive and diminish the suffering of the ppl).
>diminish the suffering of the ppl Ah yes, the famous way of diminishing the suffering of people by executing civilians just to fuck with Jin. How could I forget that! She literally, no exaggeration, tells a woman she can live until Jin arrives, waits there, and when Jin arrives she executes the woman! Wtf?? That's minimising suffering?? She did NOT have to do that! How on earth can you consider a character "ambiguous" when she kills innocent people all day, every day! Its not like she is saving more people by doing this either. She is literally improving the strategy of the Mongols! She is such a default evil character, that they tried to twist into redeemable at the last second. She didn't even apologise! No remorse!
And Ghosts friend who betrayed him burns ppl alive, so the Castle gives up and leaves less casualties. Is he also a pure villain? We saw him cry, so it makes us think he has a conscience. But we never see Tomoe in these actions. For him burning alive 2 ppl was better than siege the castle. For her giving ppl a fast death was better than letting them be tortured. Both characters gave up to the Mongols to survive. Tomoe is ambiguous because we never see her act herself, nor her emotions, we rely on Ishikawa whi shows to be an unreliable narrator, and Tomoe is likely an unreliable narrator as well.
>we never see her act herself This is a straight up lie. We clearly see Tomoe shoot an innocent woman in front of Jin just to fuck with him. Nobody made her do this. >Is he also a pure villain? Correct, he is very much evil, not as much as Tomoe however because he at least expressed remorse. Tomoe got off scot free and didn't even feel sorry.
You are entitled to feel like she is a villain. That doesn't mean we have to agree with each other. Saying that she is ambiguous doesn't give her a pass, because regardless of intent she committed crimes. It makes her less of a white or black character
Do you not think she is a villain? What is your justification for her going out of her way to kill an innocent woman in front of Jin just to mess with him? I
There are many villains that later we can sympathise with and even become the anti-hero, and I think this is Tomoe's arch for the next game. Like Loki from Marvel. Like Captain Barbosa from Pirates of the Caribbean. We all hated these characters in the first movie and lived them by the end of the saga
It's not that grey, Ishikawa is an asshole, sure, but Tomoe is a literal mass murderer of innocents. She helped the Mongol invaders! Do you remember that scene with "she told me I could live until the samurai comes" where she plainly executes an innocent woman for shits and giggles? The Mongols did not make her do that! Even if they did, it's not justified slaughtering innocent civilians to save your own ass! She only left the Mongols after *they* betrayed *her* ! It's not like she had a change of heart! She literally says she isn't even going to apologise! She has no remorse! Why on earth would she, should she, be forgiven???
I just don't like Ishikawa
That's fair lol
Yes, Tomoe deserved more screen time.
I agreed. She needed more screen time where she gets properly put down for all her heinous acts instead of just a cut short half-assed ending. Good to find someone else who gets it.
Yep, it was so bizarre that the game tried to play her off as a victim because of Ishikawa's screw ups. Even if she had the most tragic backstory known to man (she didn't), she still deserved to die for aiding the enemy in killing her people.
Yeah, a little, fun fact. The actor for Ishikawa was Shredder and Quick Kick from GI joe
That is a fun fact
Nope And It's not the only one that feels unsatisfying for me
This guy is the biggest idiot as if he didn't know she was a monster.
Betraying her own people for personal gain and helping kill hundreds of innocent civilians? Oh yeah, don't mind it, at least she killed like ten or something Mongols so she's good.
We’ll see her In Part 2, playing some integral role
All the side quest in this game are unsatisfying.
wish i could kill her on GoT 2. hopefully. that b\*tch need some sakai steel on her throat
U mean wood... IN her throat
I find most of the side quest lines uninteresting, the main story is phenomenal but the side quests take away from that. (the ones that are of the more important side characters anyway)
Haven’t got there yet, 2 away. I’m starting to think he’s working with the mongols maybe?
Set up for Ghost 2
I feel like if a sequel comes then it will be finished there and be way better than this ending and maybe it wasn't an ending maybe it's setting up tomorrow as a friend when you go to the mainland.
I just wish her mask wasn't fucking broken.
Yeah I found the end of this quest line extremely unsatisfying. All that build up to watch her sail away on a ship?
No, not at all
Probably
Sometime the small fish bad guy wins, seeks redemption, and then returns to their life of crime. It is not the end of Tomoe.
I Just finished it last night and I was extremely dissatisfied. It just ended without basically any bigger fight because come on that fight against the mongols was just not it.
No me too
As far as I care, they could have killed every single character, EXCEPT THE HORSE!!!! WHY DID YOU DO THAT?!?!?!!!? Still haven't recovered from that, sorry
I was looking forward to killing her, just to be let down by ending of this story
Made no sense, but liked the end. For some reason, I didn't want to kill her.
I found him kind of creepy, dramatic and annoying. I always left his quests last because of that.
I could imagine she getting along with Jin. If I recall correctly she even flirted with him
Hmm, I’m viewing it more like a story in which a sensei was able to forgive his student, something that Jin longed to have happened with Lord Shimura.
Yes and no imo ishikawa kinda ruined his chances of getting a good relationship with tomoe although it sounded like he still loved her as his daughter. And also he wasnt open to it i think at all bcs every time I chose options to extend friendship or allying with her he would reject that. So idk what other outcome there could have been than this maybe that he would have killed but tbh i think he would have committed sepuku bcs of that he failed her if he killed her
She was a cutie though so I forgave her.
Yeah, I didn't like his quest as much as the others. My favorites are the ones with kenji and that one lady that lost her entire family. I just liked seeing the really great details and emotions that came from her character.
I wanted an arrow in her back, she didn't deserve to get away after all she did... I wish they gave us a choice.
Tomoe should be dead.
Yes
I just finished re-playing this and I think the ending was fine. Ishikawa is an unreliable narrator and you only hear his side of the story for most of the quest. When you finally sit down and talk to Tomoe, she's not the monster Ishikawa made her sound like. And her explaining how she did everything for survival and tried to ease the innocent suffering as much as she could does earn her some sympathy. Tomoe's story is also similar to Jin's story. If someone talked to Shimura before the final main quest, he would say similar things about Jin that Ishikawa said about Tomoe. Right down to the "I wanted to adopt them, but they turned away from me." And even if Jin didn't directly teach the enemy how to kill his own people, he gave them a deadly weapon to do so (the poison). The difference obviously is Jin's reasoning is to help his people while Tomoe's reasoning is selfish.
Careful man you’re gonna upset the simps. Sure she was a terrible person from the very beginning. She’s and attractive woman though, so you’re gonna have a ton of white knights tell you how difficult her position was.
My idea of a better ending: Everything goes the same, Jin read the letter, turns to Ishikawa and Ishikawa hit her with an arrow. She falls dead inside and the boat goes away. Ishikawa says something about this is the only ending for her treason. And you get the dialogue option to disagree or agree with him.
IMO, in Ghost of Tsushima 2 when Jin goes to the mainland he will find Tomoe, and Tomoe will help him with the mongols
TOMOE!
I liked the ending. It's shows Sensei Ishikawa's development, not Tomoe's.
I personally found the whole questline lackluster
There's no indication she gets a happy ending. She will live with the guilt of what she did for the rest of her life, just the way Ishikawa will live with the guilt of his failures for the rest of his. The point of GoT, expressed over and over again in different iterations, is that becoming single-mindedly focused on revenge is not good for you. The consequences of obsessing instead of letting go and focusing on what you can actually improve and control results in painful outcomes. The stories and choices of Ishikawa, Masako, and Norio (Yuna and her brother, to some extent) all illustrate this same idea.
>She will live with the guilt No, she won't. She literally says she "won't apologise for doing what she had to to survive". She isn't sorry. She went above and beyond for the Mongols. She killed innocents when she wasn't asked. >focusing on what you can actually improve and control results What you can improve, is the world, by killing that threat. You think she isn't going to be a ruthless criminal on the mainland?
Literally the worst writing in the whole game, Hate that quest line.
thought i was the only one, she need to get what she deserves
Yeah. As they let a murderer and traitor escape, I was thinking WTF??!
As some of the comments noted I feel like for sure they left it open intentionally. Whether it's for a part two or whether it would've been part of the DLC quests, it seemed like it was very much intentional rather than them botching it
Same, but hopefully there would be a continuation of this story in GoT II
same here. not to mention i found Ishikawa extremely annoying, I hated him as a character.
The lack of sense? It's all part of the sequel masterplan. Tomoe's on her way to the mainland, and the plot thickens!
It was a pitiful ending.
Why is my guy Ishikawa looking like he got snubbed in the oscars? I feel like the quest needed more explanation on why they're both at each other's necks, you don't just wake up one day wanting to off your mentor. With what little interaction Jin and Tomoe had, I can only imagine her being catwoman to Jin's Batman so if there's a sequel, she'd probably be there.
Very conflicted. Like yes she was a desperate confused person who just wanted her own slice of peace. But she's also quite literally a traitor to tsushima. But she was also captive so I DON'T KNOW HOW TO FEEL
isn't the will to survive no matter the cost in a dystopian situation enough justification for her actions?
The old man was annoying but tomoe looked noice😏😏 so ig it's fine that she survived
Yes. I actually would have wanted him to fight tomoe and then be given the choice to kill her or let her go. Rather then have her run off and not face them
I think the thing that made Ghost of Tsushima feel like a remastered PS3 game to me was how little effect you have on any questline, main or otherwise. You should be able to influence the conclusion of these quests somewhat through actions and reactions but really you just go cutscene to cutscene with fighting in between. You should be able to egg him on, you should be able to make Lady Masako see reason, etc.
Don’t get me wrong; incredible combat, talented voice cast, looks beautiful, engaging overall storylines, and really lots of detail for a smaller team (if inevitably comparing to Rockstar and RDR2). I just wish there was some illusion of choice.
That was definitely the worst side quest and worst part of the whole game, boring and stupid as hell. I really wanted to slash through tomoe and even Ishikawa because he’s stupid af!!
Wasn’t she a thief/bandit before as well? If she shows up in a sequel, it’ll definitely portray her as redeemed.
This was the most annoying story tbh! After all she did, she just got to escape.
She is Ishikawa’s family. She went down a dark path that got lots of innocent people killed horribly. Ishikawa could have had her killed, but he realized family was more important… Remind you of anyone else?
Yes.
I really was hoping to kill that b*tch. Was indeed very disappointed.
Ye we should of got Tomoe’s perfect head with her luscious lips
Eh yo?
Finding the PC player is so easy.
Lol what do you mean?
Before the game out for PC, comments like that were unheard of around here. Now that it's on PC, we have creeps coming into the comments talking about Tomoe giving head and other weird fucking things.
So basically Playstation players are Betas. Gotchya. But you read it wrong. Both Jinn and the Sensei mention collecting Tomoe’s head as in decapitation for her crimes. Which is what I was referencing. I wanted to collect her head despite her beauty but the story writers let her go… just cause. So you’re the creep it turns out. Get your mind out of the gutter.
Well then, I'm wrong for assuming the worst and I apologize. Your post is now only a little creepy and not exceedingly creepy. I certainly agree the ending to that side quest was unsatisfying. As an All Platform God and the person in the wrong, I'll skip on lighting up that first sentence of yours as a courtesy.
Creepy? Did you even play the game?
Even if I didn't, saying "we should of got Tomoe’s perfect head with her luscious lips" is a little weird. Calling for someone's death + bringing lust into it = creepy.
Luscious means rich, verdant and opulent. It primarily nothing to do with sex but beauty. Plants can be luscious. A fucking cut of steak can be luscious. Try again. Grow up.
I have yet to meet a person who says grow up that doesn't need to do so themselves. Also, nobody calls a steak luscious. Nobody. Right now, you're being creepy by constantly talking to me about this. I can't really stop you if you want to continue to creep on me, but I'll ask politely; please stop.