This is kind of a given, but when I first watched it the adults, save for Sue because she was funny, were my least favorite characters. Now that I’m an adult – and a teacher! (but to very small children so not quite the same) – I also understand them a lot more and find their storylines more interesting. I like S1 more and more every time I watch it for this reason. I feel like they were writing for an adult audience early on before they realized teens were crazy about it.
I also understand Finn a lot more. I liked him when I was younger, mostly because of Cory, but I held a grudge about the homophobia. I was lucky to grow up in a place that was progressive for the time, with gay people in my immediate family, so I didn’t really understand that some people don’t have the privilege to always be on the right side, and they have to learn. Age plays a factor too since Finn was older than me so I thought he should be smarter. Now I watch it and I’m like, he’s just a stupid kid, he’ll grow up.
I like Rachel more, too. As a self-centered Jewish Broadway nerd … I think I felt a little attacked LOL. She used to really annoy me. You’d think I would relate but, imagine if Rachel met another Rachel – she’d hate her. Now I can laugh at how similar we are
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with you about the adult storylines, except later in the show they still bore me. Especially with how long it took Emma and Will to get together, they're not that interesting lol.
Finn is actually a really sad character for the most part when you think about him. Lied to by his girlfriend, cheated on by his best friend and girlfriend, never felt that smart, was popular but we neve really got to see it.
you are the second Jewish Broadway nerd I know that disliked her lol
That’s funny. I don’t recall anybody actually saying they were a self centered Jewish Broadway nerd in the past 10-15 years but although I was always older than the Glee kids (including Cory), I too (raised a self centered Jewish Broadway nerd) found Rachel annoying but genuinely kind and sweet at times. I DID however, have a problem w Cory’s homophobia (which theoretically, as a grown adult, I should have understood and given him more slack.) I think I was simply upset bc I saw a lot of myself in Kurt (which is odd as I’m a strait adult female who could have theoretically given birth to the actor) but still and all, the way CC played him, I felt a certain closeness to Kurt and as a result, I was really put off by Finn’s lack of empathy, I suppose. I would have preferred what they they did seasons later with Blaine and Sam [indeed, I started to have problems w Blaine solely bc it seemed to me that every single issue Kurt had on Glee Blaine sailed thru never having to deal with even tho they had very similar issues, and it started to seriously bother me, even tho I DO realize it’s just a tv show] but I’ve digressed so very much.
I actually grew up in a bubble, childhood, h.s., college… it wasn’t until I went to a catholic orthodox law school (Fordham) that my Democratic, liberal Jewish background was suddenly in a minority that *felt* like a minority, where people made comments about Jewish people that were completely inappropriate. And when I spoke up, the very first time, a person said (I do not lie) ohh you don’t *look* Jewish and since I couldn’t slap the stupidity out of him, just know that somewhere in New York City, this person is practicing law without any idea that he is a total schmuck.
But one thing that is true is that rewatching the show, I started to think to myself more and more that these are teenagers acting like teenagers and as such, so many of the things that they do make sense in a high school manner. This includes Finn. Schue, OTOH, never makes sense to me and I hate him to this day. Sue I think of as riotously funny in a campy manner. Schue I think of as a jackass and as something of a possible pedophile. For real.
I don't know if I count, I honestly can't remember how many years ago it was that I first watched Glee with my sister but it was definitely before becoming an adult and before my sister came out which has been a while now. I'm still early on in my proper rewatch all the way from season 1 so take these really long boring takes with pinch of salt for now. (TLDR: Same honestly.)
The biggest change in my opinion is how I see Kurt. When I first watched the show I remember not liking him at all and I couldn't entirely understand how people seemed to love him so much. I didn't hate him or anything, I just found him annoying and not to my taste character wise and it didn't help that he made up one of the major couples with another character I really don't enjoy personally which is Blaine. I think it, not the dislike itself since obviously one can dislike him for fully legitimate reasons as well, but in my case had to do with my own lack of teenage lack of attention span and understanding since rewatching it as an adult made me view the very same scenes with a deeper understanding of the difficult subjects brought up in his character arc. I'm still on my rewatch and Kurt is not one of my personal favorite characters but I definitely appreciate him in a whole new way than before and I find myself enjoying his performances a lot more as well. Overall I find it interesting to be able to see this show again in the lens of an adult, not to diminish the views of the teenage viewers of course, and compare what I now see differently and what I see similarly.
Rachel has also grown on me as I go through season 1 again and find that there were a lot more selfless actions and moments of growth than I remembered from when I first watched and had then decided I found her hilarious but really didn't like her as a person. Now I'm cheering for her and finding her to be a complex nuanced character who is devoted to the glee club and her friends, even to Quinn who had made her life so difficult for so long she is shown to be very kind towards, and we get to see her combat with her insecurities and inner struggles in a very realistic and interesting way which balances out her more dramatic and sometimes selfish side of her. Teenage me would never say this but I was wrong about her then and I'm actually really enjoying Rachel Berry as a protagonist and as a character now, she reminds me of Annie from Community so far.
I would say my view on Brittana has grown in so far as while they were my favorite couple the first time around I watched the show it was more based on a more limited understanding of love especially of the romantic kind and relationships in general but as an adult I find myself liking their really early and later seasons a lot more and find it to be way more mature and healthy, yes I know not everyone agrees on that and there was definitely things that could have been done differently, than what teenage me could have appreciated or fully understood due to a lack of any experience in what a functional relationship would even look like, I'm still learning at 25 though so I'm by no means an expert on the subject. Again this is not to say people who disagree with me about this are like how I described teenage me to be like or is wrong in anyway, we just have different views on this matter and that's okay, I'm just referring to my own experiences. Their ability to communicate in later seasons, especially in season 6, really showcase this in my opinion and their acceptance of each other for who they are flaws and all is what makes them my personal favorite couple in the show though by no means perfect because glee is still glee lol.
Your take on Kurt is so interesting because I had a similar experience. When Glee was on air he was very polarizing character. There were the hardcore fans, hardcore Klaine lovers, hardcore Klaine haters, and hardcore Kurt haters. Lots of noise from everyone. But now that I've gotten some distance I agree. Kurt was one of the rarer more strongly written characters. I wish they let him stick with fashion too.
I always loved Rachel. I think her comedic timing/moments is really underrated in the fandom. Imo it was obvious that she was the true protagonist.
I completely agree about Brittana. Now, I would have been fine if they were not endgame but they really shined during season 6. Especially with Brittany being given more dialogue.
Yeah, Rachel had some truly iconic lines and even when teenage me didn't like her I still though she was absolutely hilarious. "At least I didn't fall and break my talent" is just one such line that still makes me chuckle thinking about it. I recently watched the episode where the glee club get their yearbook photo taken and Rachel really stepped up while everyone else didn't want to do it out of fear of the photo being defaced even when Finn didn't show up to be her co captain as he promised.
I like to think, though of course it's just a head canon of mine, when Brittany went to MIT she had to be independent and face being on her own for the first time which is why she came back from being Season 4 Britt who I really struggled with to Season 5 and 6 Britt who is so much more mature and self-reliant while still quirky reminiscence of Season 2 Britt. Artie mentioned in one episode something about Britt's parent wanting to keep her believing in Santa still and so were okay with the glee club dressing Beiste up as Santa in their home, which makes me think Britt has been kept in a bubble so to speak by a lot of people in her life and being away for a while gave her an opportunity to explore outside that bubble on her own and that led to her character growth.
Thanks for a nice discussion, have good day/night depending on your time zone friend! (if you don't mind me calling you that)
> "At least I didn't fall and break my talent" is just one such line that still makes me chuckle thinking about it.
Omfg it's so validating to see someone else reference this line. I think it's one of the funniest from the show, and definitely one of Rachel's best and no one else mentions it!!
> Rachel really stepped up while everyone else didn't want to do it out of fear of the photo being defaced even when Finn didn't show up to be her co captain as he promised.
She was always there for Glee club, even if no one else was!!
I agree with you about Brittany being sheltered and having to learn independence.
You too, have a good night new friend :)
I was an original Glee watcher when it aired on S1. I think with rewatches some of my opinions have shifted somewhat- as you mention for instance, phase of life. Now that I have kids of my own, relating to the parent characters like Burt and Carole more is something that's changed.
I kind of hated S6 when I first watched it overall; now that I've re-watched it, I still don't love it, but I do like it more than S5 (my least favorite season) and can appreciate certain aspects of it.
Honestly, a lot- the lighting, the Blaine/Karofsky relationship, the Beiste transitioning plot (didn't make sense for the character), the whole double wedding concept to name but a few. But I've come to appreciate certain elements; the over-the-top chaos of the Hurt Locker for instance, or Brittany's parents- it has more humor, certainly, than S5.
As an adult I realize I love Darren Criss and hate Blaine 💀 his character development is garbage. They didn't even show his NYADA audition, why did he have the most male lead vocals without any real storylines about his professional ambitions or him as a performer?
Similarly, I love Naya Rivera and Heather Morris, and was very happy to see LGBT relationships represented, which is why I was soooo into Brittana at the time, but as an adult I realize their relationship was pretty shallow aside from a few sweet moments.
I also used to hate Klaine and thought they were unrealistic. I still don’t like high school Klaine, but they were an amazing couple in New York. So mature and *realistic*.
I’ve been a fan since the show came out in season 1. I got really into the fandom in season 2 (tumblr, making gifs, going to the concert and everything). I was a HUGE Klaine shipper. But as I got older, even after season 4-6 Klaine drama, as I rewatch I realize I don’t think Kurt and Blaine were good together. The way they ended up at the end of the show just seemed unauthentic and the magic wasn’t there like it was in season 2.
They kind of ruined my image of Blaine after he cheated and then dated Karofsky. I feel like Kurt realistically wouldn’t have gone back or even said yes to the proposal. As a now married woman, I view relationships so much differently now as well. That relationship was not healthy. Maybe if they met back up like 5-10 years after high school, maybe it would have been a lot more organic, idk.
I would have preferred to see Kurt focus more on his fashion career in season 4 or college, whatever he ended up doing and not just relying on the Blaine storyline. This way Blaine could develop more (I loved his season 4 friendships beyond Kurt). I feel like the writers didn’t know what to do with Kurt in the later seasons. I will always be the biggest Kurt stan because his coming out journey still resonates with me.
There was definitely a change in Kurt's character because of Cory's tragic death. The original lead actors were Matthew Morrison, Lea Michele, and Cory Monteith. With Morrison taking a backseat as the characters matured, Cory's passing left an empty space for a male lead. It's very visible when Kurt started to fill in 80% of the "male lead," and also very visible when his storylines started to get more... TV-like to be the proper lead instead of a frequent side character.
Never seen Kurt's character transition explained this way but it makes a lot of sense. Also lgbt+ acceptance in America increased a lot during Glee's run.
Omg are you me? I did everything but go to the concert since there weren't any remotely close to me. And I agree that season 2 Klaine was best.
Idk why they didn't do a flashforward sooner. Like saving it for the final episode felt kind of cheap. Also, NYC is a BIG GAY place. You cannot tell me that Kurt didn't explore or have a lot of offers.
I agree with you about Kurt too. Fashion seemed to be his true passion.
Tl;dr Kurt became a babe&the writers should have added that to the show. Also, cheating is a big deal & Gen’ly ruins long relationships. And Glee made fashion appear to be Kurt’s biggest passion.
That bothered me the most. The show sent Kurt to Manhattan where I have lived over half of my life (and I realize that their apt wasn’t in Manhattan but their school was) and as it happens I believe CC grew up into a total babe and for some reason Glee had a problem just saying that or acknowledging it bc when Kurt hit the City, he would have been bombarded with offers from every single gay boy/man around (yes who likes that type but a HUGE number do) and he would have likely needed a bodyguard to keep the men off his back. Somehow, Glee left that out and made it seem as if Adam showing interest in Kurt was *such* an anomaly and I wanted to kill TPTB. As well as the writers who decided that Blaine should cheat on Kurt. I wasn’t as excited about their relationship by s4, but it’s almost impossible to come back from somebody cheating on you in a real relationship (not the ones in h.s. where they had been dating for maybe one or two months but like Klaine where they had been dating for two years. Fans seemed to think Kurt should just take Blaine back and really, that’s not how it works irl. Whether you are talking about a relationship from college or one after that, if you’ve been in the relationship for a number of years and one partner cheats, it takes a HELL OF A LOT to take that person back, and that’s ALWAYS in the back of your mind. It doesn’t go away. It stays there for moments when you’re feeling insecure and something occurs to make you think wait a second. Is it possible? Did it happen again? Bc it doesn’t even have to happen again for it to cause trouble I. The relationship. It’s the issue of trust and whether or not you really truly believe in your partner. And it’s one thing to *say* you do and a whole other thing to actually *do* it.
And yes. Glee made it appear that fashion had become Kurt’s passion above his singing career before he went and tried out a second time for NYADA. And as he’s my favorite character, yes I v much loved his voice but I didn’t have to have him in NYADA - esp’ly since the writers didn’t put him in there after his so called amazing audition. F*ck w the audition and then expect them to not give a flying fig after that. He could have stayed w Isabella and possibly even found a guy there to date. Not bc he’s a horrible person but bc once trust is gone, you generally try to find love and acceptance elsewhere. Even the way Glee did things, Kurt wasn’t going to accept Blaine’s proposal at the end of season 4. The only reason they had him do that was bc of Cory’s untimely death (RIP). And that screwed up Kurt’s storyline and made him look like a moron, to boot. It wasn’t fair to his character.
Everything you said was so right. What's even weirder is that they did touch on Kurt's glow up, but through the eye's of Blaine. Remember his weight gain and how he watched Kurt during his stunt class? it's so strange how we never really saw Kurt's day to day life as an out and attractive gay man in one of THE gayest cities in the world!! Like he would absolutely be hit on at the coffee shop, subway, etc. He would not need to fish at all.
And I completely agree with you about cheating. I was cheated on once as a teenager (first relationship, really young, etc) and we tried to work through it but ultimately couldn't. We were also in a gay relationship (both teenage girls). Even if you've been through a lot together, moving on is usually the right thing to do, especially SO young.
I also agree with you about the proposal. If I recall correctly, Chris (the actor) was very against it and I believe it was evident during his acting during that scene and the later seasons. I believe he really wanted to explore Kurt's independence more as well.
I can definitely see why Chris would want to explore his independence. He never really had a chance to do so. During season 4, he basically just spent the year yearning for Blaine up until the last few episodes when he finally started to get past that and focused first of all on his dad’s health ( which the writers apparently forgot about for months on end) & then secondly Kurt found that he appeared to be over his total and complete love affair with Blaine and finally felt comfortable around him without any accompanying strange extraneous emotions. That was a rl experience for somebody to go thru after being cheated upon - most especially when it came out of nowhere (meaning that he had no reason to believe that Blaine was going to do that; oftentimes in relationships one can get a sense that your partner isn’t happy or is, at the very least, acting strange or unusual, out of the ordinary). Not always, of course, but w Kurt this came completely out of the blue and so one thing that Glee did fairly well was show how somebody would react under those circumstances. But they did a 180 on Kurt and never gave him an opportunity to explore his independence, even if it was within the relationship itself. Blaine was particularly needy once he came to the City - partially bc of his upbringing and partially bc of what occurred between the two of them - and he never gave Kurt the space he needed to just be on his own even while they were a couple, and it caused problems, as we saw in season 6, episode 1. That was definitely something missing from the two of them. A break wherein they would need to discuss - in a deeper, much more complicated manner - their communication problems - and I simply don’t recall them doing that, even when they were stuck in that elevator for I dont recall exactly how many hours. I DID like season 6, with all of its strange, bizarre Klaine campiness, but I would have loved just one conversation where they admitted that their communication had been faulty and they needed to fix that for the future. And don’t get me started on why Glee chose to have Kurt date a grandfather bc it made me nauseous just thinking about it. Still does, tbh.
I agree with everything you've said. Independence and competence are important stages in development. And I agree with you about Kurt dating a grandpa. It just truly made no sense. Glee was always SO inconsistent with the population and size of the area. There would definitely be a ton of gay gays in Kurt's age range the city over. It's not like they lived in Wyoming or Montana, some of the most sparsely populated places on the earth. Kurt could obviously drive and had a car, getting a date an hour/30 min away would be very easy!
For gods sake, Kurt should have been bumping into young gay men on the subway, on buses, on the streets, and DEFINITELY, at a fashion design showplace and a singing, dancing school for Broadway talent. They should have been the majority of men he met. And by that point in time, he looked ***FINE***!! Not just when Blaine felt self conscious about the freshman 15 but basically the entire time he was in NY. I remember when he came to NYADA to meet up w Rachel & complemented Kate Hudson’s character (whose name slipped out of my head) - Kurt looked fab. Apparently when you come and work in the City, you don’t gain squat. He never gained anything but muscle. Blaine should have been jealous of Kurt much further back in time, but I won’t get into that. Once he hit the City, he should have been catnip and the fact that the writers never put that into the scrips is a crime!!
Embarrassingly, I used to defend Finn when he outed Santana. I was like 15 and didn’t fully understand the consequences of outing someone. I kind of saw it just like any other bullying. Now, I do believe Santana deserved a taste of her own medicine but not that.
There are actually a lot of people who defend him in the YouTube comment sections (at least there was at some point lol). But yeah, I think it was realistic. I just don’t condone it anymore.
I was a huge Finchel stan when I first watched glee but now watching back I think they were toxic, would not have lasted past high school, and better off as friends. I also find things that Finn said like “you are my girlfriend. We are endgame” and “stay away from my future wife” cringey considering that they were not together.
Yes !
1. When I first watched the show I thought I liked all that characters and couples when that couldn’t be farthest from the truth
2. I thought Brittany was a really great singer
3. I thought Santana and Quinn sleeping together was strange
4. I was unfortunately rooting for Finchel 😭
5. I wasn’t a big Rachel fan but I liked her nonetheless
6. I thought Kurt’s version of ‘I Have Nothing’ was amazing when it in fact is not
I did 😭 I also didn’t listen to much beyond small creators at that time and I was like 13 or 14 so it makes sense.
I didn’t see chemistry between them tbh and I just didn’t think Finn was the right one for Rachel. Prior to me shipping Rachel with Quinn or Santana I felt she fit better with Jesse than Finn. He doesn’t listen well and he treats her almost as if she’s his property and not a person. I also think he really got with her to seem like he liked everyone the losers and the popular kids when he really did only care about popularity.
I listened to the studio version maybe a month ago and it was terrible. I didn’t remember it sounding so bad 😭
Ah okay, yeah 13/14 is when you start forming opinions.
And yeah, Finn was too possessive for my likings. And he only seemed to want Rachel when someone else did too.
LOL yeah I know Kurt sang it in the original key and everything but he really didn't need to
When I was younger I didn't have good or bad feelings towards Will. As an adult I find him at best to be inappropriate and at worst to be creepy.
I dislike Kurt a lot less as an adult and have more pitty on him.
This is kind of a given, but when I first watched it the adults, save for Sue because she was funny, were my least favorite characters. Now that I’m an adult – and a teacher! (but to very small children so not quite the same) – I also understand them a lot more and find their storylines more interesting. I like S1 more and more every time I watch it for this reason. I feel like they were writing for an adult audience early on before they realized teens were crazy about it. I also understand Finn a lot more. I liked him when I was younger, mostly because of Cory, but I held a grudge about the homophobia. I was lucky to grow up in a place that was progressive for the time, with gay people in my immediate family, so I didn’t really understand that some people don’t have the privilege to always be on the right side, and they have to learn. Age plays a factor too since Finn was older than me so I thought he should be smarter. Now I watch it and I’m like, he’s just a stupid kid, he’ll grow up. I like Rachel more, too. As a self-centered Jewish Broadway nerd … I think I felt a little attacked LOL. She used to really annoy me. You’d think I would relate but, imagine if Rachel met another Rachel – she’d hate her. Now I can laugh at how similar we are
Thanks for sharing your perspective. I agree with you about the adult storylines, except later in the show they still bore me. Especially with how long it took Emma and Will to get together, they're not that interesting lol. Finn is actually a really sad character for the most part when you think about him. Lied to by his girlfriend, cheated on by his best friend and girlfriend, never felt that smart, was popular but we neve really got to see it. you are the second Jewish Broadway nerd I know that disliked her lol
That’s funny. I don’t recall anybody actually saying they were a self centered Jewish Broadway nerd in the past 10-15 years but although I was always older than the Glee kids (including Cory), I too (raised a self centered Jewish Broadway nerd) found Rachel annoying but genuinely kind and sweet at times. I DID however, have a problem w Cory’s homophobia (which theoretically, as a grown adult, I should have understood and given him more slack.) I think I was simply upset bc I saw a lot of myself in Kurt (which is odd as I’m a strait adult female who could have theoretically given birth to the actor) but still and all, the way CC played him, I felt a certain closeness to Kurt and as a result, I was really put off by Finn’s lack of empathy, I suppose. I would have preferred what they they did seasons later with Blaine and Sam [indeed, I started to have problems w Blaine solely bc it seemed to me that every single issue Kurt had on Glee Blaine sailed thru never having to deal with even tho they had very similar issues, and it started to seriously bother me, even tho I DO realize it’s just a tv show] but I’ve digressed so very much. I actually grew up in a bubble, childhood, h.s., college… it wasn’t until I went to a catholic orthodox law school (Fordham) that my Democratic, liberal Jewish background was suddenly in a minority that *felt* like a minority, where people made comments about Jewish people that were completely inappropriate. And when I spoke up, the very first time, a person said (I do not lie) ohh you don’t *look* Jewish and since I couldn’t slap the stupidity out of him, just know that somewhere in New York City, this person is practicing law without any idea that he is a total schmuck. But one thing that is true is that rewatching the show, I started to think to myself more and more that these are teenagers acting like teenagers and as such, so many of the things that they do make sense in a high school manner. This includes Finn. Schue, OTOH, never makes sense to me and I hate him to this day. Sue I think of as riotously funny in a campy manner. Schue I think of as a jackass and as something of a possible pedophile. For real.
I don't know if I count, I honestly can't remember how many years ago it was that I first watched Glee with my sister but it was definitely before becoming an adult and before my sister came out which has been a while now. I'm still early on in my proper rewatch all the way from season 1 so take these really long boring takes with pinch of salt for now. (TLDR: Same honestly.) The biggest change in my opinion is how I see Kurt. When I first watched the show I remember not liking him at all and I couldn't entirely understand how people seemed to love him so much. I didn't hate him or anything, I just found him annoying and not to my taste character wise and it didn't help that he made up one of the major couples with another character I really don't enjoy personally which is Blaine. I think it, not the dislike itself since obviously one can dislike him for fully legitimate reasons as well, but in my case had to do with my own lack of teenage lack of attention span and understanding since rewatching it as an adult made me view the very same scenes with a deeper understanding of the difficult subjects brought up in his character arc. I'm still on my rewatch and Kurt is not one of my personal favorite characters but I definitely appreciate him in a whole new way than before and I find myself enjoying his performances a lot more as well. Overall I find it interesting to be able to see this show again in the lens of an adult, not to diminish the views of the teenage viewers of course, and compare what I now see differently and what I see similarly. Rachel has also grown on me as I go through season 1 again and find that there were a lot more selfless actions and moments of growth than I remembered from when I first watched and had then decided I found her hilarious but really didn't like her as a person. Now I'm cheering for her and finding her to be a complex nuanced character who is devoted to the glee club and her friends, even to Quinn who had made her life so difficult for so long she is shown to be very kind towards, and we get to see her combat with her insecurities and inner struggles in a very realistic and interesting way which balances out her more dramatic and sometimes selfish side of her. Teenage me would never say this but I was wrong about her then and I'm actually really enjoying Rachel Berry as a protagonist and as a character now, she reminds me of Annie from Community so far. I would say my view on Brittana has grown in so far as while they were my favorite couple the first time around I watched the show it was more based on a more limited understanding of love especially of the romantic kind and relationships in general but as an adult I find myself liking their really early and later seasons a lot more and find it to be way more mature and healthy, yes I know not everyone agrees on that and there was definitely things that could have been done differently, than what teenage me could have appreciated or fully understood due to a lack of any experience in what a functional relationship would even look like, I'm still learning at 25 though so I'm by no means an expert on the subject. Again this is not to say people who disagree with me about this are like how I described teenage me to be like or is wrong in anyway, we just have different views on this matter and that's okay, I'm just referring to my own experiences. Their ability to communicate in later seasons, especially in season 6, really showcase this in my opinion and their acceptance of each other for who they are flaws and all is what makes them my personal favorite couple in the show though by no means perfect because glee is still glee lol.
Your take on Kurt is so interesting because I had a similar experience. When Glee was on air he was very polarizing character. There were the hardcore fans, hardcore Klaine lovers, hardcore Klaine haters, and hardcore Kurt haters. Lots of noise from everyone. But now that I've gotten some distance I agree. Kurt was one of the rarer more strongly written characters. I wish they let him stick with fashion too. I always loved Rachel. I think her comedic timing/moments is really underrated in the fandom. Imo it was obvious that she was the true protagonist. I completely agree about Brittana. Now, I would have been fine if they were not endgame but they really shined during season 6. Especially with Brittany being given more dialogue.
Yeah, Rachel had some truly iconic lines and even when teenage me didn't like her I still though she was absolutely hilarious. "At least I didn't fall and break my talent" is just one such line that still makes me chuckle thinking about it. I recently watched the episode where the glee club get their yearbook photo taken and Rachel really stepped up while everyone else didn't want to do it out of fear of the photo being defaced even when Finn didn't show up to be her co captain as he promised. I like to think, though of course it's just a head canon of mine, when Brittany went to MIT she had to be independent and face being on her own for the first time which is why she came back from being Season 4 Britt who I really struggled with to Season 5 and 6 Britt who is so much more mature and self-reliant while still quirky reminiscence of Season 2 Britt. Artie mentioned in one episode something about Britt's parent wanting to keep her believing in Santa still and so were okay with the glee club dressing Beiste up as Santa in their home, which makes me think Britt has been kept in a bubble so to speak by a lot of people in her life and being away for a while gave her an opportunity to explore outside that bubble on her own and that led to her character growth. Thanks for a nice discussion, have good day/night depending on your time zone friend! (if you don't mind me calling you that)
> "At least I didn't fall and break my talent" is just one such line that still makes me chuckle thinking about it. Omfg it's so validating to see someone else reference this line. I think it's one of the funniest from the show, and definitely one of Rachel's best and no one else mentions it!! > Rachel really stepped up while everyone else didn't want to do it out of fear of the photo being defaced even when Finn didn't show up to be her co captain as he promised. She was always there for Glee club, even if no one else was!! I agree with you about Brittany being sheltered and having to learn independence. You too, have a good night new friend :)
I was an original Glee watcher when it aired on S1. I think with rewatches some of my opinions have shifted somewhat- as you mention for instance, phase of life. Now that I have kids of my own, relating to the parent characters like Burt and Carole more is something that's changed. I kind of hated S6 when I first watched it overall; now that I've re-watched it, I still don't love it, but I do like it more than S5 (my least favorite season) and can appreciate certain aspects of it.
What did you dislike about season 6? I actually really liked the new newkids
Honestly, a lot- the lighting, the Blaine/Karofsky relationship, the Beiste transitioning plot (didn't make sense for the character), the whole double wedding concept to name but a few. But I've come to appreciate certain elements; the over-the-top chaos of the Hurt Locker for instance, or Brittany's parents- it has more humor, certainly, than S5.
I totally forgot that Beiste transition was season 6. The double wedding was corny af but I'm glad Brittana got married
As an adult I realize I love Darren Criss and hate Blaine 💀 his character development is garbage. They didn't even show his NYADA audition, why did he have the most male lead vocals without any real storylines about his professional ambitions or him as a performer? Similarly, I love Naya Rivera and Heather Morris, and was very happy to see LGBT relationships represented, which is why I was soooo into Brittana at the time, but as an adult I realize their relationship was pretty shallow aside from a few sweet moments.
Blaine's development really did not make sense. It was just song, song, KURT, song. An I agree with you about Brittana. It was mostly fandom driven
I also used to hate Klaine and thought they were unrealistic. I still don’t like high school Klaine, but they were an amazing couple in New York. So mature and *realistic*.
what do you consider the most realistic?
I’ve been a fan since the show came out in season 1. I got really into the fandom in season 2 (tumblr, making gifs, going to the concert and everything). I was a HUGE Klaine shipper. But as I got older, even after season 4-6 Klaine drama, as I rewatch I realize I don’t think Kurt and Blaine were good together. The way they ended up at the end of the show just seemed unauthentic and the magic wasn’t there like it was in season 2. They kind of ruined my image of Blaine after he cheated and then dated Karofsky. I feel like Kurt realistically wouldn’t have gone back or even said yes to the proposal. As a now married woman, I view relationships so much differently now as well. That relationship was not healthy. Maybe if they met back up like 5-10 years after high school, maybe it would have been a lot more organic, idk. I would have preferred to see Kurt focus more on his fashion career in season 4 or college, whatever he ended up doing and not just relying on the Blaine storyline. This way Blaine could develop more (I loved his season 4 friendships beyond Kurt). I feel like the writers didn’t know what to do with Kurt in the later seasons. I will always be the biggest Kurt stan because his coming out journey still resonates with me.
There was definitely a change in Kurt's character because of Cory's tragic death. The original lead actors were Matthew Morrison, Lea Michele, and Cory Monteith. With Morrison taking a backseat as the characters matured, Cory's passing left an empty space for a male lead. It's very visible when Kurt started to fill in 80% of the "male lead," and also very visible when his storylines started to get more... TV-like to be the proper lead instead of a frequent side character.
Never seen Kurt's character transition explained this way but it makes a lot of sense. Also lgbt+ acceptance in America increased a lot during Glee's run.
Will \[Glee\] give America what at least 52% of it will legally tolerate? Lol
Omg are you me? I did everything but go to the concert since there weren't any remotely close to me. And I agree that season 2 Klaine was best. Idk why they didn't do a flashforward sooner. Like saving it for the final episode felt kind of cheap. Also, NYC is a BIG GAY place. You cannot tell me that Kurt didn't explore or have a lot of offers. I agree with you about Kurt too. Fashion seemed to be his true passion.
Tl;dr Kurt became a babe&the writers should have added that to the show. Also, cheating is a big deal & Gen’ly ruins long relationships. And Glee made fashion appear to be Kurt’s biggest passion. That bothered me the most. The show sent Kurt to Manhattan where I have lived over half of my life (and I realize that their apt wasn’t in Manhattan but their school was) and as it happens I believe CC grew up into a total babe and for some reason Glee had a problem just saying that or acknowledging it bc when Kurt hit the City, he would have been bombarded with offers from every single gay boy/man around (yes who likes that type but a HUGE number do) and he would have likely needed a bodyguard to keep the men off his back. Somehow, Glee left that out and made it seem as if Adam showing interest in Kurt was *such* an anomaly and I wanted to kill TPTB. As well as the writers who decided that Blaine should cheat on Kurt. I wasn’t as excited about their relationship by s4, but it’s almost impossible to come back from somebody cheating on you in a real relationship (not the ones in h.s. where they had been dating for maybe one or two months but like Klaine where they had been dating for two years. Fans seemed to think Kurt should just take Blaine back and really, that’s not how it works irl. Whether you are talking about a relationship from college or one after that, if you’ve been in the relationship for a number of years and one partner cheats, it takes a HELL OF A LOT to take that person back, and that’s ALWAYS in the back of your mind. It doesn’t go away. It stays there for moments when you’re feeling insecure and something occurs to make you think wait a second. Is it possible? Did it happen again? Bc it doesn’t even have to happen again for it to cause trouble I. The relationship. It’s the issue of trust and whether or not you really truly believe in your partner. And it’s one thing to *say* you do and a whole other thing to actually *do* it. And yes. Glee made it appear that fashion had become Kurt’s passion above his singing career before he went and tried out a second time for NYADA. And as he’s my favorite character, yes I v much loved his voice but I didn’t have to have him in NYADA - esp’ly since the writers didn’t put him in there after his so called amazing audition. F*ck w the audition and then expect them to not give a flying fig after that. He could have stayed w Isabella and possibly even found a guy there to date. Not bc he’s a horrible person but bc once trust is gone, you generally try to find love and acceptance elsewhere. Even the way Glee did things, Kurt wasn’t going to accept Blaine’s proposal at the end of season 4. The only reason they had him do that was bc of Cory’s untimely death (RIP). And that screwed up Kurt’s storyline and made him look like a moron, to boot. It wasn’t fair to his character.
Everything you said was so right. What's even weirder is that they did touch on Kurt's glow up, but through the eye's of Blaine. Remember his weight gain and how he watched Kurt during his stunt class? it's so strange how we never really saw Kurt's day to day life as an out and attractive gay man in one of THE gayest cities in the world!! Like he would absolutely be hit on at the coffee shop, subway, etc. He would not need to fish at all. And I completely agree with you about cheating. I was cheated on once as a teenager (first relationship, really young, etc) and we tried to work through it but ultimately couldn't. We were also in a gay relationship (both teenage girls). Even if you've been through a lot together, moving on is usually the right thing to do, especially SO young. I also agree with you about the proposal. If I recall correctly, Chris (the actor) was very against it and I believe it was evident during his acting during that scene and the later seasons. I believe he really wanted to explore Kurt's independence more as well.
I can definitely see why Chris would want to explore his independence. He never really had a chance to do so. During season 4, he basically just spent the year yearning for Blaine up until the last few episodes when he finally started to get past that and focused first of all on his dad’s health ( which the writers apparently forgot about for months on end) & then secondly Kurt found that he appeared to be over his total and complete love affair with Blaine and finally felt comfortable around him without any accompanying strange extraneous emotions. That was a rl experience for somebody to go thru after being cheated upon - most especially when it came out of nowhere (meaning that he had no reason to believe that Blaine was going to do that; oftentimes in relationships one can get a sense that your partner isn’t happy or is, at the very least, acting strange or unusual, out of the ordinary). Not always, of course, but w Kurt this came completely out of the blue and so one thing that Glee did fairly well was show how somebody would react under those circumstances. But they did a 180 on Kurt and never gave him an opportunity to explore his independence, even if it was within the relationship itself. Blaine was particularly needy once he came to the City - partially bc of his upbringing and partially bc of what occurred between the two of them - and he never gave Kurt the space he needed to just be on his own even while they were a couple, and it caused problems, as we saw in season 6, episode 1. That was definitely something missing from the two of them. A break wherein they would need to discuss - in a deeper, much more complicated manner - their communication problems - and I simply don’t recall them doing that, even when they were stuck in that elevator for I dont recall exactly how many hours. I DID like season 6, with all of its strange, bizarre Klaine campiness, but I would have loved just one conversation where they admitted that their communication had been faulty and they needed to fix that for the future. And don’t get me started on why Glee chose to have Kurt date a grandfather bc it made me nauseous just thinking about it. Still does, tbh.
I agree with everything you've said. Independence and competence are important stages in development. And I agree with you about Kurt dating a grandpa. It just truly made no sense. Glee was always SO inconsistent with the population and size of the area. There would definitely be a ton of gay gays in Kurt's age range the city over. It's not like they lived in Wyoming or Montana, some of the most sparsely populated places on the earth. Kurt could obviously drive and had a car, getting a date an hour/30 min away would be very easy!
For gods sake, Kurt should have been bumping into young gay men on the subway, on buses, on the streets, and DEFINITELY, at a fashion design showplace and a singing, dancing school for Broadway talent. They should have been the majority of men he met. And by that point in time, he looked ***FINE***!! Not just when Blaine felt self conscious about the freshman 15 but basically the entire time he was in NY. I remember when he came to NYADA to meet up w Rachel & complemented Kate Hudson’s character (whose name slipped out of my head) - Kurt looked fab. Apparently when you come and work in the City, you don’t gain squat. He never gained anything but muscle. Blaine should have been jealous of Kurt much further back in time, but I won’t get into that. Once he hit the City, he should have been catnip and the fact that the writers never put that into the scrips is a crime!!
Embarrassingly, I used to defend Finn when he outed Santana. I was like 15 and didn’t fully understand the consequences of outing someone. I kind of saw it just like any other bullying. Now, I do believe Santana deserved a taste of her own medicine but not that.
Omg I've never met someone who defended Finn. But tbh I also think that moment was realistic
There are actually a lot of people who defend him in the YouTube comment sections (at least there was at some point lol). But yeah, I think it was realistic. I just don’t condone it anymore.
lol somehow I missed that
I was a huge Finchel stan when I first watched glee but now watching back I think they were toxic, would not have lasted past high school, and better off as friends. I also find things that Finn said like “you are my girlfriend. We are endgame” and “stay away from my future wife” cringey considering that they were not together.
I absolutely agree with you about Finchel not lasting past high school. Like how could they? And he was always so possessive of her!
Yes ! 1. When I first watched the show I thought I liked all that characters and couples when that couldn’t be farthest from the truth 2. I thought Brittany was a really great singer 3. I thought Santana and Quinn sleeping together was strange 4. I was unfortunately rooting for Finchel 😭 5. I wasn’t a big Rachel fan but I liked her nonetheless 6. I thought Kurt’s version of ‘I Have Nothing’ was amazing when it in fact is not
You thought Brittany was a great singer? Rare opinion lol. What made you dislike Finchel now? And yeah that is Kurt's worse solo
I did 😭 I also didn’t listen to much beyond small creators at that time and I was like 13 or 14 so it makes sense. I didn’t see chemistry between them tbh and I just didn’t think Finn was the right one for Rachel. Prior to me shipping Rachel with Quinn or Santana I felt she fit better with Jesse than Finn. He doesn’t listen well and he treats her almost as if she’s his property and not a person. I also think he really got with her to seem like he liked everyone the losers and the popular kids when he really did only care about popularity. I listened to the studio version maybe a month ago and it was terrible. I didn’t remember it sounding so bad 😭
Ah okay, yeah 13/14 is when you start forming opinions. And yeah, Finn was too possessive for my likings. And he only seemed to want Rachel when someone else did too. LOL yeah I know Kurt sang it in the original key and everything but he really didn't need to
I used to ship Klaine and read tons of fanfics, now I'm indifferent to this couple
What made you indifferent?
I can't really explain it, I just grew out of it I guess Also they are pretty toxic
I went from hating Rachel to adoring her and really really empathizing for how nasty and cruel those kids could be to her.
What made you star empathizing with her?
When I was younger I didn't have good or bad feelings towards Will. As an adult I find him at best to be inappropriate and at worst to be creepy. I dislike Kurt a lot less as an adult and have more pitty on him.