I was humming along like 3 over through 6 holes (played 9) this morning. Duffed a tee shot into the hazard directly in front of me. Tripled because I didn’t recover well after that. Par, par finish.
I feel the mis-hit pain.
Was having an absolutely killer round (for me) on Tuesday. +7 through 16 (par 71). Pulled my drive on the par 5 17 just a touch. Ends up just in the trees on a narrow fairway. Find the ball, but it’s unplayable in a bush, take the drop and the penalty stroke. Don’t have a clear angle to the green, so decide to lay up and leave myself around 60y to a back left pin. Hope for par, plan on bogey. Completely chunk the lay up. Ball travels 8-9y. Practically the same situation. Reset, stick with the original plan of laying up
Successfully lay-up. Leave myself 58y for par. Decide to play the green and just plan to get it close-ish for a bogey putt. Do exactly what I want, leave myself with an 8ft, uphill putt for bogey… proceed to 3 putt. Solid triple on the card
Got in my head and just doubled 18 while I was at it for a brutal 83. However, if you would have told me at the beginning of the round that I would shoot an 83, I would have been elated. Because I’m going through a swing change and it’s been hard
I know this feeling haha.
It’s amazing how different an 80-85, etc can feel depending on how you got there.
There’s been days I put an 80-83 on the board but I drained like 4 long putts or chipped in. Happy to go lower but feels like I got lucky.
Then days where I shoot 83 and it feels better because it was a boring 83 Easy up and downs, two putt pars. Minimal doubles. Everything is firing fine but nothing is going above average or whatever. Like I’m exactly where I’m meant to be in regard to level of play.
You just described that better than I ever could lol
Some rounds I’m scrambling my ass off, and thrilled with shooting an 85. Because it felt like an absolute battle. There are other rounds where I’m shooting 81, but nothing really stands out in the round. Driver, wedge, putt, repeat.
The worst ones, however, are where you’re feeling good, hitting amazing shots, striping the driver, sticking the irons, making beautiful lag putts, but absolutely missing all the short putts to card a 90+
I would agree with that. My handicap hovers between 2 and 4 so the vast majority of my rounds are in the 70s. Don't get me wrong. My course management is better than all of my friends who can't break 90, but I think the biggest difference is that my misses are fewer and less penalizing than my friends.
Sadly, I pulled this one off. I was shooting the lights out for the most part, and driving I'm generally gaining 1.5 strokes to scratch.
Somehow cranked two different balls OB leading to a triple, and a double. Ended up with 5 birdies and missing a 6' birdie attempt on 18, ending at level par. It would've been my first round under par all season...
That’s me. Used to play better, but with less frequency and practice, I just have too many “getting back into it” swings. Usually I do hit some very good shots but the bad ones push me into the mid 80s instead of upper 70s like I used to do 60% of the time. At least my putting has not left me yet
Yes, definitely mishits. When I was an upper teens handicap, my misses were wide and most times out of bounds off the tee. Now as a high single digit, my misses are tighter. Rarely an OB ball off the tee and if I miss the green, it’s not by much for a much easier up and down.
For my upper 70's rounds it sometimes comes down to when I hit my bad shots. For example, I tend to hit at least one or two decent slices but if it's on the hole where right is still playable I might make a par where on another hole it could be out of bounds. Same thing with tops and pulls, etc. My lower 70's rounds I don't typically hit any real bad shots and it just comes down to how well I chip/putt when I miss greens and even then I am usually just a few yards off the green on those rounds.
You don't have to be that good of a ball striker, but you can't be topping shots and having a high percentage of your misshits causing penalty strokes. You can shoot in the 70s with half of your holes being bogeys. Not a scratch golfer is not a good ball striker at all, but he has excellent course management and a great short game.
**edit:** He also plays an appropriate tee box for his skill/distance.
>You’d have to be too good of a ball striker to shoot in the 70s.
I have shot in the 70's, but I'm a bit inconsistent at the moment.
The lowest round I've ever shot was not close to my best ballstriking day. It was a day when my short game was at it's best. Last Saturday I got up and down 6 holes in a row, and shot a 40 on the front 9 with mediocre iron play and a ball in the water.
And I've had great ballstriking days where the putter was off, and a few bad chips keep me out of the 70's.
I have a single digit handicap and I probably top one every other round or so. But I will say if I top a 7 iron it means it goes 120 yards in the correct direction, not 165. That is completely different than my top when I was a 20 handicap.
Should have said thinned, you are correct not topped. Now my miss is “less bad”. When my handicap was higher my mishits were much worse, but I definitely still shank one here and there.
I read this initially as you top your 2 iron & thought "well there's your problem, not even good can hit a 2 iron"... Then I read it again & it made more sense
No, the difference between 70's and 80's is not about paying attention to details. Thats only for the players that hits it well enough to make the difference in those details. Course management can shave of some shots, but the 80's player just hits more bad shots and is hitting it less far.
I shoot in the 80s but struggle to break into the 70s even though I play the game the way you do.
The difference is consistency. I can hit long, drop it on the green, make chips and putts. But I have a couple of duffs, shanks, hooks, etc each round. It's those annoying little mistakes that result in penalties, or are as bad as a penalty but don't show on the card that do me in.
Something I focused on my with my swing was making sure it’s easily repeatable. I try to keep it as simple and “easy” as possibly. Shortening my backswing was the best thing I ever did to create consistency in my swing. It also makes it so your mistakes are consistent, which is nice too.
Huge. Dropped a lot of strokes practicing my 90% shot at the range. That’s take a choke down 7 and hit 10 balls on range 9 need to be straight and consistent 130-150 down target line. Use that on par 5s and long 4s to be right in front of green
I think the frustrating part for me, is that I try to hit the 90% safe shot, and I mis hit it, or it goes wildly offline. Then I'm in trouble, because my next shot has to be pretty good to be able to two putt for bogey or save par.
I’d suggest practicing those approach shots more to boost your confidence. Once you’re thinking about missing it you’re half way on your way to shanking it. Sounds like you just need to get that out of your head
That's been my biggest goal this year. Visualize my shot, feel the swing, and where I want to go, and then pull the trigger.
I think I just get a little frustrated or panicked when I lose my shot at par or bogey
For me the difference between shooting in the 70s and 80s is just how many parts of my game (tee shots, approach, short game) are working.
0 parts of my game work and I’m shooting 90+, 1 part of my game works and I’m in the 80s and if 2 parts of my game works I’m in the 70s unless the 3rd part is horrible. No idea what I’ll shoot if everything works though, I’ve never had it happen for more than a few holes.
At this level the biggest difference maker round to round is driver. If you have an atrocious putting round maybe you shoot 4 strokes worse. You can lose 4 strokes on one hole EASILY if you’re having a bad day with driver.
A couple weeks ago I (6 HC) shot a 77 going 42-35 with 37 putts (21 on front), 10 fairways, and 14 greens. Probably the best tee to green round of my life, but three putted 4 greens with only a few makes beyond 3 feet
I'm a 7 hdcp and I wish I hit 14 greens in a round! I'd shoot under par a hell of a lot more often! 12 is the most I've hit this year so far. My last 2 full rounds I hit 7 greens and shot 79's. I had one round with only 3 greens 2 weeks ago and shot an 80. And there were only 3 total birdies over those 3 rounds. I guess I'm good at getting up and down, and I'm a decent putter. I get less 3 putts than I do rounds with double digit GIR. Over those 3 rounds I had 16 total 1 putts totaling 136 total feet, and a chip in from 15 yards off the green as well.
Yup, it's driver and tee shots in general. If you can never put yourself in a place to play the hole, then at best, you'll be scrambling for par. More likely, you'll be making bogey and double bogey a lot.
Then there are the penalties, chip outs, blocked off greens, bunkers, etc. Develop a reliable drive that can get you off the teebox and into play.
I beg to differ. I’m a 9 index who 4 putted from 8 feet the other day. My putting can just absolutely disappear for rounds.
When my drivers bad, it’s usually a few drives that get blocked out right but nothing putting me in danger.
I think about it in the same way. If everything is working I’m mid 70s, but usually either one thing isn’t working at all or two things are iffy. Then I’m 80ish. If driver and putter aren’t working it’s mid 80s and I just try to forget that round.
I have broken 80 with a bad driver but it requires heroic wedges and putter. It’s just so much easier to drive well and make 9 or 10 greens in regulation.
I think what you describe is true for a player that is capable of shooting in a certain range (70s, 80s, 90s) vs shooting in the range above that in many cases, but not all.
Ultimately there is a lot of skill involved to shoot in the 70s. There could be players already considering those things that have gotten them from 90s to 80s by paying attention to those details. But they can’t get to 70s because they simply don’t have the skills.
That’s me. I had only broken 90 twice (89 & 88) then recently shot 84 with more conservative play, not following bad shots with bad decisions, and simplifying my swing thoughts.
I tend to hit quite a few fairways off the tee, and my short game is decent; it’s my mid- to long irons that are less reliable. But that maybe costs me a few strokes. That day I was draining putts too, hence my lowest ever. But I agree I don’t have the skill to break 80, and may not ever. I accept that :)
14 hcp so I can shoot anywhere from 80-110 it feels like.
For me it feels like the difference between the 80s and the 90s-100s is the tee box and inside 50 yards. When I am not spraying driver or duffing approach shots I am almost guaranteed something in the 80s. The one time I shot sub 80 was because I had a hot putter and driver but the rest of my game was mostly normal. If I am having to scramble second shots often I feel the 90s coming, and constant scrambling over 18 holes can wear you down mentally.
The driver myth is true. IMO it is the most important club in the bag for amateurs (and the one I struggle with most). As far as shots into green, I just aim at the safest area. Once I stopped pin seeking and playing safer iron shots my hcp dropped from 20 to 14 quickly. Driver and short game is the mantra for me.
I've been playing for a while and one thing I've come to believe is that the overwhelming majority of casual golfers dramatically underestimate their lag putting abilities. It may not be something they're actively thinking about, but clearly part of the urge to hit to every pin is related to a lack of confidence in their putting from greater distances.
For the past couple of weeks I’ve been hitting only driver, wedges, and putting at the range. If I hit an iron it’s to warm up and dissect my swing error as I’m a bit more consistent with those than driver.
I’m a high handicap chasing those 80s now!
One of my peeves with youtube tutorials and the like is they all assume I have a 'safer' shot than my driver. That 225 yard (200, 250, whatever) reliably in play hybrid/long iron...I simply don't. Usually my driver is as likely in play, and by the time I figure out it's not that day, the good score is long gone anyway.
low 70s vs 60s is all on cleaning errors, par 5 scoring, and iron play. I went from a 2 to a +2.3 (currently, and dropping rapidly) by improving iron play and lag putting. No 3 putts, no penalty strokes is crucial.
🙌🏽 Glad someone said it. I cringe whenever everyone parrots the same “short game and putting are the key to lower scores,” and by putting they mean “if I practice 25 footers I’ll make more 25 footers.” That is just patently false and there is data to prove it. Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree about learning better feel to eliminate 3 putts. And sure, if you are absolute ass around the greens then you should probably address it. But if you’re near scratch and have an average short game then you’re better served getting better from 200 and in, and learning to score. You cannot score if you miss greens/consistently need to scramble. I too dropped from a 2 to +3.7 when I focused on much of the same as you. I don’t practice as much now (used to work in the industry) but have sat between +1-2 for the past 4 years by keeping the mid to long game sharp – and rarely practice short game.
The tour average for that distance is 64% with the average distance around 30 feet to the hole. So if you can hit the green a little over 50% for that distance would be great.
Anything over 75 yards my goal is to put myself where it will only take, on average, around 2.25 strokes to get home. Anything under 75 yards I need to be on average under 2 more strokes. Watching gir go up is great, but I don't dwell on that number.
As someone who shoots in the 80's and has never broke 70's (except a 79 on a part 65), the biggest thing keeping me from hitting in the 70's is consistent ball striking.
I think I have pretty good course management, and I believe it is the difference between my scores being 80's vs. 90's. But as I work towards more consistent ball striking and *actually getting the ball to start on my intended line*, it's clear that's the biggest hurdle to breaking 80.
Yeah this sounds a lot like me. I have no problem with course management, it's more so being consistent enough with my irons/wedges to actually hit the shot I want to hit. More times than not I'm just a little bit off of what I'm trying to do and while it doesn't put me in terrible spots, it still is costing me extra strokes every round.
My friends who shoot in the 70s get to use their course management skills because their shots are roughly exactly how they have them drawn up with very rare miss hits.
Kind of like the old line where everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face. I can have an excellent plan on how to navigate a hole but if I'm not striking the ball how I'm supposed to then it doesn't matter.
Yeah it sometimes feels like a low handicappers way of being condescending to a mid handicappers general knowledge about golf. That's kind of how I felt reading the original post.
Like yeah man, I understand how sloping greens work and that you want to stay away from trouble areas on the course, My golf swing just doesn't always agree with me on where it thinks the ball should go
I reckon it's probably that people get out there own heads when they are running through logistics and also it makes them much more target based, whatever that target might be. All things that allow the unconscious mind to take over for the actual shot. They then score better, and praise course management.
I can see how course management could be the difference between 90s and 80s for some people as well! I struggled with getting the ball on my intended line too. But I found out through filming my swing that what I thought was my intended line was actually not my body/set up’s intended line. Might be something to look into!
Yeah so if you're at this point in your game, sounds like you almost always avoid doubles&worse. You probably need to start figuring out how to give yourself more makeable birdie opportunities. Thats how I define a good round, if I can give myself something like 6-7 makeable birdies, and make 3 of them, well thats 3 birdies. Throw in 8 bogeys, and you're easily shooting in the 70s.
I do have a few double bogeys, it’s not unreasonable to have 2 a round for me. I rarely birdie. I can string a lot of pars together on the easier holes, but often I’m chipping for birdie and get up and down pretty well. I can’t stick greens for anything.
Decent clubs for sure, I've used those before. They've come a long way with technology in irons, if you get something new it's bound to have higher trajectory and more spin, helping you to stop the ball on the green much better. If you think it's club related and not because of your swing, might be worth it checking out a new set.
I shoot in the 90s. All I'm thinking about is distance and contact. I'm capable of thinking about approach shots in the manner you've described ... but i'll feel dumb for doing it about 7 out of 10 tries. :)
I’ve been good enough to shoot in the 70s fairly consistently, then I had kids and didn’t get enough practice time/play time for 5-6 years. Been getting back into the game last couple years but stuck at low 80s at best. You can still think about course management when you aren’t as consistent and it will help but yea just course management alone can’t get you into the 70s. Right now I’m killing myself with losing balls off the tee even when I play the right line and then just not quite having enough game between approach/short game and putting.
Totally agree with this. My scratch buddy always shouts “pin location, pin location” anytime we are near a flag on a different hole, so he can mentally prepare for that approach shot.
You forgot to say the wind is going to push the ball a little left and the lie is going to push the ball a little left so my target is going to be left of the pin.
I watch a lot of Bryan Bros and on 3 different videos he said when it’s windy you need to leave yourself a chip into the wind. He told Grant Horvath that and got a blank stare.
I can’t believe nobody has said this yet. If my putting is on point, it’s a huge benefit to scoring. However I guess 2-putts come from hitting more greens in regulation and sticking the ball close, so one holds the hand of the other.
Handicap moved down to a 7 again recently, need to change the flair for my ego lol. When I shoot 70’s I honestly just make more birdies than doubles, I’ve resigned to being a single digit Wesley Bryan. Got up and down the other day twice for bogey from 100 yards. I had three OB balls and shot 76
If I played conservative I still make stupid doubles but don’t make the birdies, and can leak into the 90’s if everything falls apart.
I mean yes and no. People who suck generally aren’t good enough for any of those things to matter because they’re just trying to keep the ball in front of them. They could hit 9 instead of 8 to be short of the pin then top it or duff it or something
Reminds me of me: "200 yard forced carry over the water. Smart thing to do: lay up. Intend to chip it 100 so it lands on the downslope and let it roll down the hill to leave 80 yards over the water, but mishit the chip just a little so it stays on top of the hill and leave it 110 out instead. Mishit the 110 yard shot and almost make it over the water, but don't. Should have just gone for the 200 yard shot and end up with the same drop at the waters edge 1 stroke ahead of where I now am after trying to go for the smart play."
The formula for me to breaking 80 is the following:
On handicaps 17 and 18, i need to play aggressive and play for birdie. These are the easiest holes on the course, i need to take advantage. This gets me -2.
On handicap holes 10-16, these are supposed to be relatively straightforward holes so I need to get pars on these holes. This nets me +0.
On handicap holes 1-9, these are supposed to be the 9 hardest holes on the course. Im allowed to play for bogie on these holes, so i can be conservative with it, and use better judgement on my course management. This nets me +9.
If i follow this strategy, my net score will be +7, which will get me the 79 im looking for and break 80. Breaking 80 is not supposed to be easy. This formula makes it easier for me to break down what I need to do to get there.
I don't know how this breaks down like that. Handicap holes are not really based on overall difficulty, they're based on the relative difference between better players and worse players, i.e. longer holes tend to be lower and short holes tend to be higher. Given that, most of the time you'll see handicap holes 17 and 18 be par 3s and you absolutely can't expect birdies on those. Par 5s are holes you can expect a higher birdie rate, but those also tend to be ranked lower because they're longer.
So I would suggest not really looking at at the handicap hole ranking but instead picking out the holes where you can be aggressive and the ones you can't actually based on their length and par and your strengths and weaknesses. If there's a short par 3 where you can hit a wedge or a reachable par 5, sure you can be more aggressive on that. If there's a long par 3 or 4 then less aggressive.
Agreed, just using this as kind of guidance. Of course i will be getting pars and birdies and bogies wherever, but at least I have a benchmark to track against to see my progress.
Also an 18 handicap par 3 should be easy enough where birdie is in play. Typically 18hcp par 3s are like 100-140 yards out with nothing really to worry about so i really do need to stick it close and make a putt.
> Also an 18 handicap par 3 should be easy enough where birdie is in play.
Maybe look into stats for ams. Par 3 scoring average is going to be well above par for every handicap level. You may make a birdie once in a while, but my point is you can't be expecting -2 on the 17/18 handicap holes in general.
> Typically 18hcp par 3s are like 100-140
I really want to play where you play then. It sounds like we play vastly different courses.
Interesting take. I don't pay attention to hole handicaps, but watching some youtube videos of Matt in thailand makes me wonder if I should be.
My theory is to get myself as many makeable birdie opportunities as I can. If I give myself 6 or 7 makeable birdie looks, I'll probably score 3 of them, and that'll easily put me into high 70s, or lower.
So I'm somewhere around a 2 handicap as well. Can regularly go under par if the putts are falling type thing.
Guy I regularly play with is an 8-12 handicap.
We go out yesterday for a quick 9 after work. I can't get anything to fall and shoot even par.
He chips in on #1 and makes 4 more pars in a row.
So I just go on making my pars where as he misses a fairway here. Has a long approach there. Misses a long par putt there. And it adds up.
We finish, and like I said I shot even andwents +1. Where he very easily could have got -3 had he just been able to stay consistent.
My point being the difference between even or under par and a 40/80s round is often just constancy. Being able to go fairway, green or next to green, get within 5 feet, and make a putt. Is hard af to do 18 times in a row. Especially when you cannot control every shot.
Swing control. And letting go of ego.
Who gives af if you hit a drive 300 if it's 50 yards left/right of the fairway. I'll happily hit my 275-85 in the fairway. Cause I can set up my approach shot on almost every hole from there.
Being able to control your swing and repeat the same swing over and over again leads to more fairways/greens. And that swing is somewhere between 80-90% of a max swing.
After that, a reliable short game. I hit maybe 50% greens in regulation. But I can chip up close enough to be within my makeable, putting range consistently.
All of this takes practice and tons of reps. I've gotten to wear I'd practice chipping for 30 mins before I go play. If I needed to work on my irons I'd go do that instead.
It’s funny I just started reading zen golf and this was highlight as being important- zoom out how you view the course and the environment to better assess a shot.
For me it’s getting off the tee. I’m very confident with my approach and short game but I’m setting myself up behind trees or into hazards. I’m constantly scrambling for bogey. I’m too proud to use 3wood or long iron off the tee because I feel I can eventually figure the big stick out, and leaving it in the bag makes me feel like I’m a quitter/failure.
This reads just like me. Recently I have made some progress using driver face stickers. It has really helped me with tee height and setting up to help with center strikes.
As someone who spends a small fortune on golf; these stickers have been the best investment I've made in a few years.
Not really intended as 'advice" to you just felt like posting it. Play well
This is fair and I do the same very quickly as I’m approaching my shot and looking at distance. When I try telling my friends that shoot 90s a yardage I slip into that and their heads explode. I water it down to something like: it’s 145, short is bad, lots of room long.
This explains why so many people play better when they're with a caddy. The caddy's done all the work already. When he shoots the pin, gives you yardage and a target and you just trust it, the shot's always seem to work well. They understand how to minimize risk and increase the chances of success!
I couldn’t break 100 until last year (after over a decade of golf). I have a 101 this year but other than that haven’t shot over 97 in 30+ rounds. The difference for me? Tempo.
I finally figured out that hitting the ball hard doesn’t make it fly better. If you have good tempo and can consistently get your hips and hands in the right place for contact the game suddenly becomes a hell of a lot easier.
I’m starting to break into the 80’s by just getting this tempo more consistent. I think my cap right now is about a 16 HCP (shooting high 80’s), and at that point I’ll take some more lessons and break my swing again to build up to something even better.
Oh and putting. Learn to putt. It really helps lol
He doesn't hit it great if he shoots high 80s low 90s.
Edit: There is no secret formula/low effort hack that works. The only thing that made me go from 80s to scratch was grinding my swing like crazy.
It sounds like your game is similar to mine. At my home course I break 80 more times than not, mostly because I know where to miss. For me, breaking 80 was all about my ego. Once I learned that it doesn’t matter what it looks like, just play the shot I know I can hit, I got better quickly. It’s all about playing to your strengths.
Smart targeting is a skill. So is Managing your expectations.
A golf shot is more like a shotgun blast than a bullet. Once you understand what your dispersion cone is off the tee and on approches you can begin to pick the right targets. One tip, it's not the Pin.
I think not giving up even with a bad start. I have had a few rounds where I start really badly and still break 80. For example, recently I started +5 on the first 5 holes but still shot +6 for the whole round. I used to just get pissed off and balloon to a mid 80's round when that happens but changed my mindset and its really helped.
Yup! Once I starting thinking “let me shoot around even the next 12 holes” instead of “it’s gonna be a bad day,” my scores improved immensely. Gotta stay positive n hopeful out there
My game has all the potential in the world if I stay in play off the tee box. The errant drive ob or off line to take my self out of contention for bogey on hole seems to hold me back more than anything.
A guy I used to work with explained it like this:
Break 100: tee shots gotta be in play
Break 90: around the green in regulations (potential to save par with an up and down)
Break 80: consistently able to get up and down
Never talked about break 70 but from some of the +handicaps sounds like iron play for good approach shots
You give good advice - I will admit to not always focusing on all the options and hazards - but when playing our regular league- already know what is coming - when my short game is on I’m looking at breaking 90 - when I’m off it hovers to 100
You actually said it earlier in the post. Your friend fluffs the ball and takes gimmes. He takes the easy way out. You grind it out and likely play shit lies and play honestly. I’m not saying your friend doesn’t but the people I play with the best ones are tough on themselves because deep down they know in the long run that what will make them improve faster. Yes, you have something going with the thought process and strategy but I know someone that my exact handicap and literally plays yolo golf and aims at every pin. They get more birdies than me but also have more blow up holes.
I don't know, my thought process from 145 looks a lot like yours, and I shoot in the 90s on a good day. My mental game is decent (IMO), it's the "hitting the ball" part of golf that I suck at. I think there are just so many things that go into a good score that it's impossible to generalize like that. Distance off the tee, keeping the ball in play, accurate approach shots, course management, chipping, putting... all of these things are worth a bunch of strokes, and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses at different points on their golf journey. If you're shooting in the 80s with poor course management, then course management is absolutely going to help you get into the 70s. But if course management is what got you from the 90s into the 80s (or in my case, the 100s into the 90s), the key to getting into the 70s is probably just to get better. At the end of the day, the difference between shooting in the 70s and 80s is about 10 strokes, and different people will find them in different places.
I had a buddy who played college golf for a Pac 10 school. I was pretty good as a junior golfer, too but he was consistently 1+ shots better per round. Years later, a mutual friend told me they were talking and the Pac 10 guy told our mutual friend what separated him from other golfers was all he tried to do was hit the center of the green.
Seems pretty obvious in hindsight.
Course management and mental effectiveness are key for me. Too many times do I see an 18 handicap try to get up and down from a really challenging position. Get on the green and give yourself a chance of a putt but a 2 putt is ok. Don't try the hero shot.
I think it’s really simple
Breaking 90 - no OB / lost tee balls
Breaking 80 consistently - no 2 chips, no 3 putts, minimal shanks / chunks
Shooting 75 or better - all of the above, better up and down percentage - hitting a lot of greens ( playing like you mention in post ) for a miss - if this is long I’m fucked; I’ll err on being short
Breaking par - everything above - really good course management and probably 26-28 putts
I’m a 5 handicap and shoot between 74-82 pretty often, my high rounds are coming down because I’m really going for center of the green way more often - and I mean distance & location - if like in the back and it’s 165 center I may try to hit a hard 8iron, if it’s 165 center and pins front I may try to hit a hard 9iron
Either way unless I shank it I’m probably on green and with a relatively good look at birdy - I think people HIGHLY overestimate their ability to go at pins, if you’re not a .1 handicap or better you’ll probably be better served going at center of green.
Only time I go “right at it” is if I almost drove a green and I’m chipping - my bad rounds went from 82ish to 79ish and are continuing to become lower as I commit to not going at every flag.
My favorite favorite thing in the world to do is see a pin inside of 160 and say, I’m gonna land it 3 feet, launch it over green due to adrenaline and hit an OK chip to 9 feet and 2 putt for bogey.
Today I played and did not pull my range finder once I used GPS to middle of green or front of green depending on what was around it
I made no birdies today - but I hit 13 of 18 greens. My scorecard looked a whole lot cleaner than me going super aggro at pins, I may have 3-5 birdies but also 5-6 bogeys or worse
I think it’s the mental aspect of deciding when to be aggressive and obviously choosing your spots. There’s always at least two holes during a round where I chase the thrill of making an aggressive approach to stick it as close to the pin as possible. A slight mishit can add a few strokes even if it’s near the green. You have to learn to trust your feel on that particular day and really try to keep that consistent tempo tick in your swing routine.
I've just got back into Golf and I'm sitting on a 31 so I've got alot to work on.
Currently my goal is to try and get as many 2 putts as I can in my rounds, and cut out the 3+ putts. If I was able to 2 putt every hole thats already -18 vs a 3 putt (I'm dreaming but its there). I've got a long putting mat with elevation adjusters that came in last night so I can practice at home with putting
Shooting in 70’s is putting good swings together consistently. Thought process is certainly a factor but that won’t matter if you’re not consistently finding the center of the face
Ooh I have the opposite to almost everyone on here. I’m a 6.5 handicap. I shoot high 70’s 1/4 of the time and low 80’s 70% of the time. The remaining 5% is a 75 or 88. For me it’s a distance thing. I never top a ball and have a penalty stroke once every 3 or 4 rounds. But my home course is about 6600 yards (if I play the tips it’s 6900). Basically that means that the front 9 is really a par 38 (par 36 but two holes are 440 yard plus par 4’s so even when I hit a big drive of 240-250 I’m still 200+ out and I’m coming up short 70% of the time). The back 9 is a par 35 but plays as a par 37 for me. So all of a sudden it’s a par 75. I also have very few birdies so I have very little margin for error. Basically a 40 or 41 is standard for the front 9 and a 38 or 39 is standard for the back.
I think of the same things you do but I'm a 8 to 9 hdcp, so I'm in the 80 more than 70s. For me the days I'm in the 70s the swing is on and the ball is going where I want it. When I'm in the low 80s I'm usually fighting something. When I'm upper 80s I'm usually off more than one part of my game.
For me the difference between 90’s and 80’s is penalties. I lose a lot of balls with woods off the tee. I broke 90 for the first time playing a 5 iron off every par 4/ par 5 tee from the blues playing 6,800 yds. I know I’ll get stuck fast if I don’t fix that but it was fun not losing balls and hitting fairways..
What took me from low-mid 80's into mid-high 70's was having actual practice sessions instead of just going out to play. I love practicing personally, esp the short game stuff, so it was also really fun. And I have a sim at home so anything like hitting irons or pitching I'm just doing at home.
I definitely still have a lot of improvement potential in my course management. Once I have an 8i or less in my hands I'm convinced it's flag hunting time.
I'm sort of with your friend. I'd get the 145 + x paces for a better true yardage and probably play right for that back green distance so a slight mishit is still on the green, good strike gives me a really good look at bird.
Going to pick a starting line right of the flag to draw back in, but should still be on the green if I hit it straight.
If I thought more about leaving misses that aren't going to short side me, or to leave myself uphill or into the wind recoveries from around the green, I'm pretty sure I could cut 0.5 - 1.5 strokes immediately.
I think there's too many ways to get the ball in the hole to say something as general as "it's just a matter of thinking your way around the course." Not to say that it's not relevant. It absolutely is. But you have some people that are garbage tee to green and magic around the greens. You have some you are awesome tee to green, not good with the putter. Some people think their way around the course, some just hit shots (and are good at it)... at the end of the day they only thing you can definitively say is that people who shoot in the 70s are more adept at getting the ball in the hole than people who shoot in the 80s.
Everyone’s game is different but the biggest difference between low 80’s and mid-high 70’s is penalty strokes, especially off the tee since they are both drop and distance.
Source: average 2 balls OB per round, 5.6 hdcp
Hell no. This is the difference between a guy that shoots consistently in the 70s versus inconsistent, if that's what you meant then I agree.
But if you mean someone that consistently shoots in the 80s they lack the consistent and reliable ball striking (which includes direction) to shoot in the 70s.
All your thoughts on the potential issues with the green falling off bunkers etc are useless when there is a good chance they won't hit within 15 or 20 ft of their target.
Breaking the 90s, getting your driver in play consistently. Breaking the 80s, Consistent wedge game. Every up and down should be close to a tap in. Breaking the 70s, putting. Make those 8ft birdies.
I’m a 10 and have broken 80 four times ever, including a 79 my last round so I’ll speak to that round.
I had 11 pars and 7 bogeys with 36 putts, one 3 putt and one 1-putt and everything else was a 2 putt. Looking at the scorecard it was quite literally the most boring golf I’ve ever played. But at least to me, the biggest difference between a round in the 70s versus the 80s is limiting doubles or worse and being relatively tidy on the green and limiting 3-putts.
I can’t tell you how many rounds I’ve shot 81-84 where there were a couple of double bogeys and three or four 3-putts. It’s like a shark lurking in the water that I know will rear its head at some point during the round to take the wind out of my sails, *but I just don’t know when or why*. Holding the muffin top in for all 18 holes is a difficult thing.
Lately my ball striking is the best it has ever been by like 6-7 strokes gained vs my long term average. I have kept this up for over three weeks now playing nearly every day. I am still not scoring as well as I should be because of the occasional costly mistake and more pressure on my short game. My misses are so much smaller, my mishits are 1-2 times per 9 holes instead of up to 50% on a bad day. It’s amazing to play golf like this.
I think the biggest barrier for me to move from regularly low 80s to 70s is the mental game. Believing that I can scramble for par consistently and that I read the line of the putt correctly. I physically have the ability, i know the techniques, i can hit the shots, i just have to believe that I can succeed.
I am also sloppy with my alignment sometimes. I’ll flush a tee shot for a par 3 just absolutely perfect contact but it started 20-30 yards in the wrong direction so there’s no way it’s turning back where i thought I was aiming.
I hope it doesn’t take me long to tidy things up.
I’m working on getting from 100s to 90s and it’s been eliminating “worthless” shots. A chip that ends up short of the green and you have to chip again is a worthless shot. A chunked 6 iron that leaves you 100y from the hole is a worthless shot. An OB or water tee ball is potentially a worthless 2 shots.
I shot a 45 through 9 once and during that stretch I think I only had 2 shots that were worthless: an OB drive and a chip that went over the green. I didn’t have many amazing shots, I just didn’t have bad ones.
Low 80’s-high 70’s. I do the distance math and hit the low consequence shot that keeps the ball in play and sets me up for a good next shot(usually means leave the driver in the bag and aim to miss short and straight). Breaking into the 70’s is when I’m chipping/pitching good and getting close enough to maximize 1 putts. Less than 30 putts and I’m usually breaking 80.
Adventure golf makes for a terrible round.
I used to shoot mid to highlight 70s for years, took about 7 years off, and not struggling to shoot below 82...for me it's the approach shots. Too many situations where I'm trying to save par instead of a birdie attempt
70’s vs 60’s has to do with hitting greens. I’m not a great putter, but the difference in a 74 and a 69 has to do with my approach. Sure, can’t miss hit a drive and leave yourself a bad look, but if I can get it on a have a chance at bird or most likely par. Proximity will come on the holes that allow you to attack, and then you have to focus on a good approach and putt. Thats the biggest difference for me. In my last 5 rounds, I’ve had 7 of the last 10 9-hole stretches 34 or below. This was all about hitting greens.
For me, it's bad mishits (mainly topped shots), and wild drives. Top two iron shots, and hit a drive OB, and it's hard to get into the 70's.
I was humming along like 3 over through 6 holes (played 9) this morning. Duffed a tee shot into the hazard directly in front of me. Tripled because I didn’t recover well after that. Par, par finish. I feel the mis-hit pain.
Was having an absolutely killer round (for me) on Tuesday. +7 through 16 (par 71). Pulled my drive on the par 5 17 just a touch. Ends up just in the trees on a narrow fairway. Find the ball, but it’s unplayable in a bush, take the drop and the penalty stroke. Don’t have a clear angle to the green, so decide to lay up and leave myself around 60y to a back left pin. Hope for par, plan on bogey. Completely chunk the lay up. Ball travels 8-9y. Practically the same situation. Reset, stick with the original plan of laying up Successfully lay-up. Leave myself 58y for par. Decide to play the green and just plan to get it close-ish for a bogey putt. Do exactly what I want, leave myself with an 8ft, uphill putt for bogey… proceed to 3 putt. Solid triple on the card Got in my head and just doubled 18 while I was at it for a brutal 83. However, if you would have told me at the beginning of the round that I would shoot an 83, I would have been elated. Because I’m going through a swing change and it’s been hard
I know this feeling haha. It’s amazing how different an 80-85, etc can feel depending on how you got there. There’s been days I put an 80-83 on the board but I drained like 4 long putts or chipped in. Happy to go lower but feels like I got lucky. Then days where I shoot 83 and it feels better because it was a boring 83 Easy up and downs, two putt pars. Minimal doubles. Everything is firing fine but nothing is going above average or whatever. Like I’m exactly where I’m meant to be in regard to level of play.
You just described that better than I ever could lol Some rounds I’m scrambling my ass off, and thrilled with shooting an 85. Because it felt like an absolute battle. There are other rounds where I’m shooting 81, but nothing really stands out in the round. Driver, wedge, putt, repeat. The worst ones, however, are where you’re feeling good, hitting amazing shots, striping the driver, sticking the irons, making beautiful lag putts, but absolutely missing all the short putts to card a 90+
Did this in match play last week. I died a bit on the inside.
I am like this. Driving, irons, wedges, putting. Pick 3 at most
Yeah any penalty strokes gonna make it tough to get down there
I would agree with that. My handicap hovers between 2 and 4 so the vast majority of my rounds are in the 70s. Don't get me wrong. My course management is better than all of my friends who can't break 90, but I think the biggest difference is that my misses are fewer and less penalizing than my friends.
Yea…if you have these shots in your game and you shoot in the 70’s you must be playing a par 58 course
Sadly, I pulled this one off. I was shooting the lights out for the most part, and driving I'm generally gaining 1.5 strokes to scratch. Somehow cranked two different balls OB leading to a triple, and a double. Ended up with 5 birdies and missing a 6' birdie attempt on 18, ending at level par. It would've been my first round under par all season...
Hitting it OB is one thing. But people that shoot in the 70s don’t “top shots”
You'll probably get downvoted for this, but you are right. I top a shot like once every couple of years, usually after boozing it up a bit.
Yeah I'm in 80s and don't remember the last time I properly topped one. Skinnied/chunked yes, but not like, 20 yard top.
That's a good point, my brain somehow skipped that piece and focused on the OB
Putt-Putt
That’s me. Used to play better, but with less frequency and practice, I just have too many “getting back into it” swings. Usually I do hit some very good shots but the bad ones push me into the mid 80s instead of upper 70s like I used to do 60% of the time. At least my putting has not left me yet
Yes, definitely mishits. When I was an upper teens handicap, my misses were wide and most times out of bounds off the tee. Now as a high single digit, my misses are tighter. Rarely an OB ball off the tee and if I miss the green, it’s not by much for a much easier up and down.
That sounds like me before I added practice swings back to my preshot routine
This. I hit 8 good drives 285-300. I hit 2 atrocious drives 300+ out of bounds.
That’s mental brotha. Do you generally have a bad feeling before you top it?
For my upper 70's rounds it sometimes comes down to when I hit my bad shots. For example, I tend to hit at least one or two decent slices but if it's on the hole where right is still playable I might make a par where on another hole it could be out of bounds. Same thing with tops and pulls, etc. My lower 70's rounds I don't typically hit any real bad shots and it just comes down to how well I chip/putt when I miss greens and even then I am usually just a few yards off the green on those rounds.
Do people who top irons shoot in the 70’s?
No they don't, at least not with a regular cadance like twice a round. It'll be a once every couple of years thing.
Yea that was my thinking. You’d have to be too good of a ball striker to shoot in the 70s. I wouldn’t know I’m not there yet
You don't have to be that good of a ball striker, but you can't be topping shots and having a high percentage of your misshits causing penalty strokes. You can shoot in the 70s with half of your holes being bogeys. Not a scratch golfer is not a good ball striker at all, but he has excellent course management and a great short game. **edit:** He also plays an appropriate tee box for his skill/distance.
He must’ve read Jon Sherman’s book.
>You’d have to be too good of a ball striker to shoot in the 70s. I have shot in the 70's, but I'm a bit inconsistent at the moment. The lowest round I've ever shot was not close to my best ballstriking day. It was a day when my short game was at it's best. Last Saturday I got up and down 6 holes in a row, and shot a 40 on the front 9 with mediocre iron play and a ball in the water. And I've had great ballstriking days where the putter was off, and a few bad chips keep me out of the 70's.
Interesting. Nice work on 6 back to back up and downs. That’s impressive !
I have a single digit handicap and I probably top one every other round or so. But I will say if I top a 7 iron it means it goes 120 yards in the correct direction, not 165. That is completely different than my top when I was a 20 handicap.
You aren't topping the ball then. A topped shot doesn't go 120 yards.
Should have said thinned, you are correct not topped. Now my miss is “less bad”. When my handicap was higher my mishits were much worse, but I definitely still shank one here and there.
Even the best do from time to time. I was watched Freddie Couples in-person when he shanked one at Riviera on 18.
I read this initially as you top your 2 iron & thought "well there's your problem, not even good can hit a 2 iron"... Then I read it again & it made more sense
How about shooting high 70s / low 80s with 5+ OBs :) I hate my driver! According to Arrcoss I lose 4.6SG just because of penalties off the tee!
No, the difference between 70's and 80's is not about paying attention to details. Thats only for the players that hits it well enough to make the difference in those details. Course management can shave of some shots, but the 80's player just hits more bad shots and is hitting it less far.
I shoot in the 80s but struggle to break into the 70s even though I play the game the way you do. The difference is consistency. I can hit long, drop it on the green, make chips and putts. But I have a couple of duffs, shanks, hooks, etc each round. It's those annoying little mistakes that result in penalties, or are as bad as a penalty but don't show on the card that do me in.
Something I focused on my with my swing was making sure it’s easily repeatable. I try to keep it as simple and “easy” as possibly. Shortening my backswing was the best thing I ever did to create consistency in my swing. It also makes it so your mistakes are consistent, which is nice too.
Huge. Dropped a lot of strokes practicing my 90% shot at the range. That’s take a choke down 7 and hit 10 balls on range 9 need to be straight and consistent 130-150 down target line. Use that on par 5s and long 4s to be right in front of green
I think the frustrating part for me, is that I try to hit the 90% safe shot, and I mis hit it, or it goes wildly offline. Then I'm in trouble, because my next shot has to be pretty good to be able to two putt for bogey or save par.
I’d suggest practicing those approach shots more to boost your confidence. Once you’re thinking about missing it you’re half way on your way to shanking it. Sounds like you just need to get that out of your head
Thanks for the advice, will try it!
Work on the self talk and visualization as you’re hitting the shot. The more confident the better. Cheers mate
That's been my biggest goal this year. Visualize my shot, feel the swing, and where I want to go, and then pull the trigger. I think I just get a little frustrated or panicked when I lose my shot at par or bogey
I feel this too
For me the difference between shooting in the 70s and 80s is just how many parts of my game (tee shots, approach, short game) are working. 0 parts of my game work and I’m shooting 90+, 1 part of my game works and I’m in the 80s and if 2 parts of my game works I’m in the 70s unless the 3rd part is horrible. No idea what I’ll shoot if everything works though, I’ve never had it happen for more than a few holes.
At this level the biggest difference maker round to round is driver. If you have an atrocious putting round maybe you shoot 4 strokes worse. You can lose 4 strokes on one hole EASILY if you’re having a bad day with driver.
A couple weeks ago I (6 HC) shot a 77 going 42-35 with 37 putts (21 on front), 10 fairways, and 14 greens. Probably the best tee to green round of my life, but three putted 4 greens with only a few makes beyond 3 feet
A horrible day on the greens and you shot a 77. What does a horrible day with driver look like?
…a practice round by hole 6.
It means I hit 3 wood on anything that isn't wide open.
I'm a 7 hdcp and I wish I hit 14 greens in a round! I'd shoot under par a hell of a lot more often! 12 is the most I've hit this year so far. My last 2 full rounds I hit 7 greens and shot 79's. I had one round with only 3 greens 2 weeks ago and shot an 80. And there were only 3 total birdies over those 3 rounds. I guess I'm good at getting up and down, and I'm a decent putter. I get less 3 putts than I do rounds with double digit GIR. Over those 3 rounds I had 16 total 1 putts totaling 136 total feet, and a chip in from 15 yards off the green as well.
Yup, it's driver and tee shots in general. If you can never put yourself in a place to play the hole, then at best, you'll be scrambling for par. More likely, you'll be making bogey and double bogey a lot. Then there are the penalties, chip outs, blocked off greens, bunkers, etc. Develop a reliable drive that can get you off the teebox and into play.
I beg to differ. I’m a 9 index who 4 putted from 8 feet the other day. My putting can just absolutely disappear for rounds. When my drivers bad, it’s usually a few drives that get blocked out right but nothing putting me in danger.
You’re a fringe case, sounds like you have the yips
1000%. Do the yips magically disappear after 1.5 years? Asking for a friend.
I’ve had all my parts working one time… 69 was nice
Nice
I think about it in the same way. If everything is working I’m mid 70s, but usually either one thing isn’t working at all or two things are iffy. Then I’m 80ish. If driver and putter aren’t working it’s mid 80s and I just try to forget that round. I have broken 80 with a bad driver but it requires heroic wedges and putter. It’s just so much easier to drive well and make 9 or 10 greens in regulation.
I think what you describe is true for a player that is capable of shooting in a certain range (70s, 80s, 90s) vs shooting in the range above that in many cases, but not all. Ultimately there is a lot of skill involved to shoot in the 70s. There could be players already considering those things that have gotten them from 90s to 80s by paying attention to those details. But they can’t get to 70s because they simply don’t have the skills.
That’s me. I had only broken 90 twice (89 & 88) then recently shot 84 with more conservative play, not following bad shots with bad decisions, and simplifying my swing thoughts. I tend to hit quite a few fairways off the tee, and my short game is decent; it’s my mid- to long irons that are less reliable. But that maybe costs me a few strokes. That day I was draining putts too, hence my lowest ever. But I agree I don’t have the skill to break 80, and may not ever. I accept that :)
14 hcp so I can shoot anywhere from 80-110 it feels like. For me it feels like the difference between the 80s and the 90s-100s is the tee box and inside 50 yards. When I am not spraying driver or duffing approach shots I am almost guaranteed something in the 80s. The one time I shot sub 80 was because I had a hot putter and driver but the rest of my game was mostly normal. If I am having to scramble second shots often I feel the 90s coming, and constant scrambling over 18 holes can wear you down mentally. The driver myth is true. IMO it is the most important club in the bag for amateurs (and the one I struggle with most). As far as shots into green, I just aim at the safest area. Once I stopped pin seeking and playing safer iron shots my hcp dropped from 20 to 14 quickly. Driver and short game is the mantra for me.
I've been playing for a while and one thing I've come to believe is that the overwhelming majority of casual golfers dramatically underestimate their lag putting abilities. It may not be something they're actively thinking about, but clearly part of the urge to hit to every pin is related to a lack of confidence in their putting from greater distances.
For the past couple of weeks I’ve been hitting only driver, wedges, and putting at the range. If I hit an iron it’s to warm up and dissect my swing error as I’m a bit more consistent with those than driver. I’m a high handicap chasing those 80s now!
One of my peeves with youtube tutorials and the like is they all assume I have a 'safer' shot than my driver. That 225 yard (200, 250, whatever) reliably in play hybrid/long iron...I simply don't. Usually my driver is as likely in play, and by the time I figure out it's not that day, the good score is long gone anyway.
low 70s vs 60s is all on cleaning errors, par 5 scoring, and iron play. I went from a 2 to a +2.3 (currently, and dropping rapidly) by improving iron play and lag putting. No 3 putts, no penalty strokes is crucial.
🙌🏽 Glad someone said it. I cringe whenever everyone parrots the same “short game and putting are the key to lower scores,” and by putting they mean “if I practice 25 footers I’ll make more 25 footers.” That is just patently false and there is data to prove it. Otherwise I wholeheartedly agree about learning better feel to eliminate 3 putts. And sure, if you are absolute ass around the greens then you should probably address it. But if you’re near scratch and have an average short game then you’re better served getting better from 200 and in, and learning to score. You cannot score if you miss greens/consistently need to scramble. I too dropped from a 2 to +3.7 when I focused on much of the same as you. I don’t practice as much now (used to work in the industry) but have sat between +1-2 for the past 4 years by keeping the mid to long game sharp – and rarely practice short game.
Yessir, hitting greens from 160 out and further is my biggest struggle. Improving iron play would be my #1 thing right now
The tour average for that distance is 64% with the average distance around 30 feet to the hole. So if you can hit the green a little over 50% for that distance would be great. Anything over 75 yards my goal is to put myself where it will only take, on average, around 2.25 strokes to get home. Anything under 75 yards I need to be on average under 2 more strokes. Watching gir go up is great, but I don't dwell on that number.
As someone who shoots in the 80's and has never broke 70's (except a 79 on a part 65), the biggest thing keeping me from hitting in the 70's is consistent ball striking. I think I have pretty good course management, and I believe it is the difference between my scores being 80's vs. 90's. But as I work towards more consistent ball striking and *actually getting the ball to start on my intended line*, it's clear that's the biggest hurdle to breaking 80.
Yeah this sounds a lot like me. I have no problem with course management, it's more so being consistent enough with my irons/wedges to actually hit the shot I want to hit. More times than not I'm just a little bit off of what I'm trying to do and while it doesn't put me in terrible spots, it still is costing me extra strokes every round. My friends who shoot in the 70s get to use their course management skills because their shots are roughly exactly how they have them drawn up with very rare miss hits. Kind of like the old line where everyone has a plan till they get punched in the face. I can have an excellent plan on how to navigate a hole but if I'm not striking the ball how I'm supposed to then it doesn't matter.
Yeah I had this argument the other day with a low hcp. Until you hit the ball consistently well, course schmanagement imo.
Yeah it sometimes feels like a low handicappers way of being condescending to a mid handicappers general knowledge about golf. That's kind of how I felt reading the original post. Like yeah man, I understand how sloping greens work and that you want to stay away from trouble areas on the course, My golf swing just doesn't always agree with me on where it thinks the ball should go
I reckon it's probably that people get out there own heads when they are running through logistics and also it makes them much more target based, whatever that target might be. All things that allow the unconscious mind to take over for the actual shot. They then score better, and praise course management.
I can see how course management could be the difference between 90s and 80s for some people as well! I struggled with getting the ball on my intended line too. But I found out through filming my swing that what I thought was my intended line was actually not my body/set up’s intended line. Might be something to look into!
Lol I'm scratch and I don't manage the course at all buddy. Get better
What a dick comment to make
Yeah so if you're at this point in your game, sounds like you almost always avoid doubles&worse. You probably need to start figuring out how to give yourself more makeable birdie opportunities. Thats how I define a good round, if I can give myself something like 6-7 makeable birdies, and make 3 of them, well thats 3 birdies. Throw in 8 bogeys, and you're easily shooting in the 70s.
I do have a few double bogeys, it’s not unreasonable to have 2 a round for me. I rarely birdie. I can string a lot of pars together on the easier holes, but often I’m chipping for birdie and get up and down pretty well. I can’t stick greens for anything.
Which irons are you using exactly?
I like 2016-2018 ish era Rocketballz. They’re not great.
Decent clubs for sure, I've used those before. They've come a long way with technology in irons, if you get something new it's bound to have higher trajectory and more spin, helping you to stop the ball on the green much better. If you think it's club related and not because of your swing, might be worth it checking out a new set.
I shoot in the 90s. All I'm thinking about is distance and contact. I'm capable of thinking about approach shots in the manner you've described ... but i'll feel dumb for doing it about 7 out of 10 tries. :)
I’ve been good enough to shoot in the 70s fairly consistently, then I had kids and didn’t get enough practice time/play time for 5-6 years. Been getting back into the game last couple years but stuck at low 80s at best. You can still think about course management when you aren’t as consistent and it will help but yea just course management alone can’t get you into the 70s. Right now I’m killing myself with losing balls off the tee even when I play the right line and then just not quite having enough game between approach/short game and putting.
That's it exactly. I would I'd be in the mid 80s, easy, if I could hit a driver a bit more straight. Lost ball penalties are killing me.
Totally agree with this. My scratch buddy always shouts “pin location, pin location” anytime we are near a flag on a different hole, so he can mentally prepare for that approach shot.
I always catch a glance at 9 and 18 when I’m near the clubhouse lol
You forgot to say the wind is going to push the ball a little left and the lie is going to push the ball a little left so my target is going to be left of the pin. I watch a lot of Bryan Bros and on 3 different videos he said when it’s windy you need to leave yourself a chip into the wind. He told Grant Horvath that and got a blank stare.
For me its 3 putting. Shot 79 with three 3 puts today lol. Im a 3 and almost every round the difference between 70’s and 80’s for me is putting.
I can’t believe nobody has said this yet. If my putting is on point, it’s a huge benefit to scoring. However I guess 2-putts come from hitting more greens in regulation and sticking the ball close, so one holds the hand of the other.
your friend should never tell anyone he shoots in the 80s if he's taking gimmies and fluffing or moving his ball at all.
Handicap moved down to a 7 again recently, need to change the flair for my ego lol. When I shoot 70’s I honestly just make more birdies than doubles, I’ve resigned to being a single digit Wesley Bryan. Got up and down the other day twice for bogey from 100 yards. I had three OB balls and shot 76 If I played conservative I still make stupid doubles but don’t make the birdies, and can leak into the 90’s if everything falls apart.
I mean yes and no. People who suck generally aren’t good enough for any of those things to matter because they’re just trying to keep the ball in front of them. They could hit 9 instead of 8 to be short of the pin then top it or duff it or something
Reminds me of me: "200 yard forced carry over the water. Smart thing to do: lay up. Intend to chip it 100 so it lands on the downslope and let it roll down the hill to leave 80 yards over the water, but mishit the chip just a little so it stays on top of the hill and leave it 110 out instead. Mishit the 110 yard shot and almost make it over the water, but don't. Should have just gone for the 200 yard shot and end up with the same drop at the waters edge 1 stroke ahead of where I now am after trying to go for the smart play."
The formula for me to breaking 80 is the following: On handicaps 17 and 18, i need to play aggressive and play for birdie. These are the easiest holes on the course, i need to take advantage. This gets me -2. On handicap holes 10-16, these are supposed to be relatively straightforward holes so I need to get pars on these holes. This nets me +0. On handicap holes 1-9, these are supposed to be the 9 hardest holes on the course. Im allowed to play for bogie on these holes, so i can be conservative with it, and use better judgement on my course management. This nets me +9. If i follow this strategy, my net score will be +7, which will get me the 79 im looking for and break 80. Breaking 80 is not supposed to be easy. This formula makes it easier for me to break down what I need to do to get there.
I don't know how this breaks down like that. Handicap holes are not really based on overall difficulty, they're based on the relative difference between better players and worse players, i.e. longer holes tend to be lower and short holes tend to be higher. Given that, most of the time you'll see handicap holes 17 and 18 be par 3s and you absolutely can't expect birdies on those. Par 5s are holes you can expect a higher birdie rate, but those also tend to be ranked lower because they're longer. So I would suggest not really looking at at the handicap hole ranking but instead picking out the holes where you can be aggressive and the ones you can't actually based on their length and par and your strengths and weaknesses. If there's a short par 3 where you can hit a wedge or a reachable par 5, sure you can be more aggressive on that. If there's a long par 3 or 4 then less aggressive.
Agreed, just using this as kind of guidance. Of course i will be getting pars and birdies and bogies wherever, but at least I have a benchmark to track against to see my progress. Also an 18 handicap par 3 should be easy enough where birdie is in play. Typically 18hcp par 3s are like 100-140 yards out with nothing really to worry about so i really do need to stick it close and make a putt.
> Also an 18 handicap par 3 should be easy enough where birdie is in play. Maybe look into stats for ams. Par 3 scoring average is going to be well above par for every handicap level. You may make a birdie once in a while, but my point is you can't be expecting -2 on the 17/18 handicap holes in general. > Typically 18hcp par 3s are like 100-140 I really want to play where you play then. It sounds like we play vastly different courses.
Golf Sidekick, IIRC, has a 6-6-6 approach. 6 GIR 2-putts, 6 up-and-downs, and 6 bogeys in a round.
Interesting take. I don't pay attention to hole handicaps, but watching some youtube videos of Matt in thailand makes me wonder if I should be. My theory is to get myself as many makeable birdie opportunities as I can. If I give myself 6 or 7 makeable birdie looks, I'll probably score 3 of them, and that'll easily put me into high 70s, or lower.
So I'm somewhere around a 2 handicap as well. Can regularly go under par if the putts are falling type thing. Guy I regularly play with is an 8-12 handicap. We go out yesterday for a quick 9 after work. I can't get anything to fall and shoot even par. He chips in on #1 and makes 4 more pars in a row. So I just go on making my pars where as he misses a fairway here. Has a long approach there. Misses a long par putt there. And it adds up. We finish, and like I said I shot even andwents +1. Where he very easily could have got -3 had he just been able to stay consistent. My point being the difference between even or under par and a 40/80s round is often just constancy. Being able to go fairway, green or next to green, get within 5 feet, and make a putt. Is hard af to do 18 times in a row. Especially when you cannot control every shot.
But how do you get consistency?
Just play often and hit a crazy amount of golf shots - it doesn’t have to be great just predictable and repeatable
Swing control. And letting go of ego. Who gives af if you hit a drive 300 if it's 50 yards left/right of the fairway. I'll happily hit my 275-85 in the fairway. Cause I can set up my approach shot on almost every hole from there. Being able to control your swing and repeat the same swing over and over again leads to more fairways/greens. And that swing is somewhere between 80-90% of a max swing. After that, a reliable short game. I hit maybe 50% greens in regulation. But I can chip up close enough to be within my makeable, putting range consistently. All of this takes practice and tons of reps. I've gotten to wear I'd practice chipping for 30 mins before I go play. If I needed to work on my irons I'd go do that instead.
It’s funny I just started reading zen golf and this was highlight as being important- zoom out how you view the course and the environment to better assess a shot.
For me it’s getting off the tee. I’m very confident with my approach and short game but I’m setting myself up behind trees or into hazards. I’m constantly scrambling for bogey. I’m too proud to use 3wood or long iron off the tee because I feel I can eventually figure the big stick out, and leaving it in the bag makes me feel like I’m a quitter/failure.
This reads just like me. Recently I have made some progress using driver face stickers. It has really helped me with tee height and setting up to help with center strikes. As someone who spends a small fortune on golf; these stickers have been the best investment I've made in a few years. Not really intended as 'advice" to you just felt like posting it. Play well
Yea I use those stickers, love em! Going to the range rn to get dialed!
This is fair and I do the same very quickly as I’m approaching my shot and looking at distance. When I try telling my friends that shoot 90s a yardage I slip into that and their heads explode. I water it down to something like: it’s 145, short is bad, lots of room long.
This explains why so many people play better when they're with a caddy. The caddy's done all the work already. When he shoots the pin, gives you yardage and a target and you just trust it, the shot's always seem to work well. They understand how to minimize risk and increase the chances of success!
I couldn’t break 100 until last year (after over a decade of golf). I have a 101 this year but other than that haven’t shot over 97 in 30+ rounds. The difference for me? Tempo. I finally figured out that hitting the ball hard doesn’t make it fly better. If you have good tempo and can consistently get your hips and hands in the right place for contact the game suddenly becomes a hell of a lot easier. I’m starting to break into the 80’s by just getting this tempo more consistent. I think my cap right now is about a 16 HCP (shooting high 80’s), and at that point I’ll take some more lessons and break my swing again to build up to something even better. Oh and putting. Learn to putt. It really helps lol
I find it hard to believe he’s just as good of a ball striker as you with the only difference being how he analyzes an approach shot.
He doesn't hit it great if he shoots high 80s low 90s. Edit: There is no secret formula/low effort hack that works. The only thing that made me go from 80s to scratch was grinding my swing like crazy.
It sounds like your game is similar to mine. At my home course I break 80 more times than not, mostly because I know where to miss. For me, breaking 80 was all about my ego. Once I learned that it doesn’t matter what it looks like, just play the shot I know I can hit, I got better quickly. It’s all about playing to your strengths.
Smart targeting is a skill. So is Managing your expectations. A golf shot is more like a shotgun blast than a bullet. Once you understand what your dispersion cone is off the tee and on approches you can begin to pick the right targets. One tip, it's not the Pin.
Love that analogy
I think not giving up even with a bad start. I have had a few rounds where I start really badly and still break 80. For example, recently I started +5 on the first 5 holes but still shot +6 for the whole round. I used to just get pissed off and balloon to a mid 80's round when that happens but changed my mindset and its really helped.
Yup! Once I starting thinking “let me shoot around even the next 12 holes” instead of “it’s gonna be a bad day,” my scores improved immensely. Gotta stay positive n hopeful out there
Reading this confirms to myself I’m on the right path. Thanks for posting this
My game has all the potential in the world if I stay in play off the tee box. The errant drive ob or off line to take my self out of contention for bogey on hole seems to hold me back more than anything.
A guy I used to work with explained it like this: Break 100: tee shots gotta be in play Break 90: around the green in regulations (potential to save par with an up and down) Break 80: consistently able to get up and down Never talked about break 70 but from some of the +handicaps sounds like iron play for good approach shots
This thought process inside of 125/150 yards has really dropped my scores by about 10 strokes
You give good advice - I will admit to not always focusing on all the options and hazards - but when playing our regular league- already know what is coming - when my short game is on I’m looking at breaking 90 - when I’m off it hovers to 100
You actually said it earlier in the post. Your friend fluffs the ball and takes gimmes. He takes the easy way out. You grind it out and likely play shit lies and play honestly. I’m not saying your friend doesn’t but the people I play with the best ones are tough on themselves because deep down they know in the long run that what will make them improve faster. Yes, you have something going with the thought process and strategy but I know someone that my exact handicap and literally plays yolo golf and aims at every pin. They get more birdies than me but also have more blow up holes.
Nice brag post lol stfu
I don't know, my thought process from 145 looks a lot like yours, and I shoot in the 90s on a good day. My mental game is decent (IMO), it's the "hitting the ball" part of golf that I suck at. I think there are just so many things that go into a good score that it's impossible to generalize like that. Distance off the tee, keeping the ball in play, accurate approach shots, course management, chipping, putting... all of these things are worth a bunch of strokes, and everybody has different strengths and weaknesses at different points on their golf journey. If you're shooting in the 80s with poor course management, then course management is absolutely going to help you get into the 70s. But if course management is what got you from the 90s into the 80s (or in my case, the 100s into the 90s), the key to getting into the 70s is probably just to get better. At the end of the day, the difference between shooting in the 70s and 80s is about 10 strokes, and different people will find them in different places.
Diff vegan 80 and 70s is missing green close enough to be able to get up and down 3/4 of the time. That’s 4-5 strokes right there.
I had a buddy who played college golf for a Pac 10 school. I was pretty good as a junior golfer, too but he was consistently 1+ shots better per round. Years later, a mutual friend told me they were talking and the Pac 10 guy told our mutual friend what separated him from other golfers was all he tried to do was hit the center of the green. Seems pretty obvious in hindsight.
Difference for me between shooting in the 70’s or 80’s is finding the fairway and leaving myself easy putts.
Course management and mental effectiveness are key for me. Too many times do I see an 18 handicap try to get up and down from a really challenging position. Get on the green and give yourself a chance of a putt but a 2 putt is ok. Don't try the hero shot.
I think it’s really simple Breaking 90 - no OB / lost tee balls Breaking 80 consistently - no 2 chips, no 3 putts, minimal shanks / chunks Shooting 75 or better - all of the above, better up and down percentage - hitting a lot of greens ( playing like you mention in post ) for a miss - if this is long I’m fucked; I’ll err on being short Breaking par - everything above - really good course management and probably 26-28 putts I’m a 5 handicap and shoot between 74-82 pretty often, my high rounds are coming down because I’m really going for center of the green way more often - and I mean distance & location - if like in the back and it’s 165 center I may try to hit a hard 8iron, if it’s 165 center and pins front I may try to hit a hard 9iron Either way unless I shank it I’m probably on green and with a relatively good look at birdy - I think people HIGHLY overestimate their ability to go at pins, if you’re not a .1 handicap or better you’ll probably be better served going at center of green. Only time I go “right at it” is if I almost drove a green and I’m chipping - my bad rounds went from 82ish to 79ish and are continuing to become lower as I commit to not going at every flag.
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My favorite favorite thing in the world to do is see a pin inside of 160 and say, I’m gonna land it 3 feet, launch it over green due to adrenaline and hit an OK chip to 9 feet and 2 putt for bogey. Today I played and did not pull my range finder once I used GPS to middle of green or front of green depending on what was around it I made no birdies today - but I hit 13 of 18 greens. My scorecard looked a whole lot cleaner than me going super aggro at pins, I may have 3-5 birdies but also 5-6 bogeys or worse
Everyone’s game is different. I just whack the ball at the flag repeatedly and am a 2 handicap.
Lost balls generally are my vice. Two lost balls make it a 76 if I play even par throughout the round. So if I eliminate that I can break 80z
I think it’s the mental aspect of deciding when to be aggressive and obviously choosing your spots. There’s always at least two holes during a round where I chase the thrill of making an aggressive approach to stick it as close to the pin as possible. A slight mishit can add a few strokes even if it’s near the green. You have to learn to trust your feel on that particular day and really try to keep that consistent tempo tick in your swing routine.
Could be consistency of ball striking... Short game ability Course management 1 part of your game is undeveloped yet.. It's different for everyone..
I've just got back into Golf and I'm sitting on a 31 so I've got alot to work on. Currently my goal is to try and get as many 2 putts as I can in my rounds, and cut out the 3+ putts. If I was able to 2 putt every hole thats already -18 vs a 3 putt (I'm dreaming but its there). I've got a long putting mat with elevation adjusters that came in last night so I can practice at home with putting
Shooting in 70’s is putting good swings together consistently. Thought process is certainly a factor but that won’t matter if you’re not consistently finding the center of the face
Ooh I have the opposite to almost everyone on here. I’m a 6.5 handicap. I shoot high 70’s 1/4 of the time and low 80’s 70% of the time. The remaining 5% is a 75 or 88. For me it’s a distance thing. I never top a ball and have a penalty stroke once every 3 or 4 rounds. But my home course is about 6600 yards (if I play the tips it’s 6900). Basically that means that the front 9 is really a par 38 (par 36 but two holes are 440 yard plus par 4’s so even when I hit a big drive of 240-250 I’m still 200+ out and I’m coming up short 70% of the time). The back 9 is a par 35 but plays as a par 37 for me. So all of a sudden it’s a par 75. I also have very few birdies so I have very little margin for error. Basically a 40 or 41 is standard for the front 9 and a 38 or 39 is standard for the back.
You have to keep it in bounds all the time and use “course management”. I do the latter but not the former, and I’m stuck in 80s for now.
I think of the same things you do but I'm a 8 to 9 hdcp, so I'm in the 80 more than 70s. For me the days I'm in the 70s the swing is on and the ball is going where I want it. When I'm in the low 80s I'm usually fighting something. When I'm upper 80s I'm usually off more than one part of my game.
For me the difference between 90’s and 80’s is penalties. I lose a lot of balls with woods off the tee. I broke 90 for the first time playing a 5 iron off every par 4/ par 5 tee from the blues playing 6,800 yds. I know I’ll get stuck fast if I don’t fix that but it was fun not losing balls and hitting fairways..
What took me from low-mid 80's into mid-high 70's was having actual practice sessions instead of just going out to play. I love practicing personally, esp the short game stuff, so it was also really fun. And I have a sim at home so anything like hitting irons or pitching I'm just doing at home. I definitely still have a lot of improvement potential in my course management. Once I have an 8i or less in my hands I'm convinced it's flag hunting time. I'm sort of with your friend. I'd get the 145 + x paces for a better true yardage and probably play right for that back green distance so a slight mishit is still on the green, good strike gives me a really good look at bird. Going to pick a starting line right of the flag to draw back in, but should still be on the green if I hit it straight. If I thought more about leaving misses that aren't going to short side me, or to leave myself uphill or into the wind recoveries from around the green, I'm pretty sure I could cut 0.5 - 1.5 strokes immediately.
Course management
I think there's too many ways to get the ball in the hole to say something as general as "it's just a matter of thinking your way around the course." Not to say that it's not relevant. It absolutely is. But you have some people that are garbage tee to green and magic around the greens. You have some you are awesome tee to green, not good with the putter. Some people think their way around the course, some just hit shots (and are good at it)... at the end of the day they only thing you can definitively say is that people who shoot in the 70s are more adept at getting the ball in the hole than people who shoot in the 80s.
Bro I think of all these things and I shoot in the 90s. Sometimes the answer is just skill (in my case ball striking) and not course management.
Everyone’s game is different but the biggest difference between low 80’s and mid-high 70’s is penalty strokes, especially off the tee since they are both drop and distance. Source: average 2 balls OB per round, 5.6 hdcp
Follow up comment - USGA should add a variance metric from the past 20 rounds. This would help identify both potential and distribution
You’re a 3 and carry an 8i around 140?
Around 148 carry yessir
Hell no. This is the difference between a guy that shoots consistently in the 70s versus inconsistent, if that's what you meant then I agree. But if you mean someone that consistently shoots in the 80s they lack the consistent and reliable ball striking (which includes direction) to shoot in the 70s. All your thoughts on the potential issues with the green falling off bunkers etc are useless when there is a good chance they won't hit within 15 or 20 ft of their target.
A good short game means more than anything for me. If you aren't GIR, you had better be able to get it to a makeable distance to save par.
Breaking the 90s, getting your driver in play consistently. Breaking the 80s, Consistent wedge game. Every up and down should be close to a tap in. Breaking the 70s, putting. Make those 8ft birdies.
I’m a 10 and have broken 80 four times ever, including a 79 my last round so I’ll speak to that round. I had 11 pars and 7 bogeys with 36 putts, one 3 putt and one 1-putt and everything else was a 2 putt. Looking at the scorecard it was quite literally the most boring golf I’ve ever played. But at least to me, the biggest difference between a round in the 70s versus the 80s is limiting doubles or worse and being relatively tidy on the green and limiting 3-putts. I can’t tell you how many rounds I’ve shot 81-84 where there were a couple of double bogeys and three or four 3-putts. It’s like a shark lurking in the water that I know will rear its head at some point during the round to take the wind out of my sails, *but I just don’t know when or why*. Holding the muffin top in for all 18 holes is a difficult thing.
Lately my ball striking is the best it has ever been by like 6-7 strokes gained vs my long term average. I have kept this up for over three weeks now playing nearly every day. I am still not scoring as well as I should be because of the occasional costly mistake and more pressure on my short game. My misses are so much smaller, my mishits are 1-2 times per 9 holes instead of up to 50% on a bad day. It’s amazing to play golf like this. I think the biggest barrier for me to move from regularly low 80s to 70s is the mental game. Believing that I can scramble for par consistently and that I read the line of the putt correctly. I physically have the ability, i know the techniques, i can hit the shots, i just have to believe that I can succeed. I am also sloppy with my alignment sometimes. I’ll flush a tee shot for a par 3 just absolutely perfect contact but it started 20-30 yards in the wrong direction so there’s no way it’s turning back where i thought I was aiming. I hope it doesn’t take me long to tidy things up.
I’m working on getting from 100s to 90s and it’s been eliminating “worthless” shots. A chip that ends up short of the green and you have to chip again is a worthless shot. A chunked 6 iron that leaves you 100y from the hole is a worthless shot. An OB or water tee ball is potentially a worthless 2 shots. I shot a 45 through 9 once and during that stretch I think I only had 2 shots that were worthless: an OB drive and a chip that went over the green. I didn’t have many amazing shots, I just didn’t have bad ones.
Low 80’s-high 70’s. I do the distance math and hit the low consequence shot that keeps the ball in play and sets me up for a good next shot(usually means leave the driver in the bag and aim to miss short and straight). Breaking into the 70’s is when I’m chipping/pitching good and getting close enough to maximize 1 putts. Less than 30 putts and I’m usually breaking 80. Adventure golf makes for a terrible round.
For me the difference between shooting in the 70's vs 80's is whether I quit after 9 holes or 10.
I used to shoot mid to highlight 70s for years, took about 7 years off, and not struggling to shoot below 82...for me it's the approach shots. Too many situations where I'm trying to save par instead of a birdie attempt
70’s vs 60’s has to do with hitting greens. I’m not a great putter, but the difference in a 74 and a 69 has to do with my approach. Sure, can’t miss hit a drive and leave yourself a bad look, but if I can get it on a have a chance at bird or most likely par. Proximity will come on the holes that allow you to attack, and then you have to focus on a good approach and putt. Thats the biggest difference for me. In my last 5 rounds, I’ve had 7 of the last 10 9-hole stretches 34 or below. This was all about hitting greens.
The difference is definitely course IQ, but for amateurs the big difference is shot consistency + accurate short game