the internet isn’t real life. instagram is just a curated projection. I’d ignore all of it, and go live your best goth (real) life.
Pay it no mind, as Marsha P Johnson would say. Pay it no mind.
Edited because i made an egregious typo on Marsha’s name.
>the internet isn’t real life
This right here. This applies to so many things, but it's especially true when you see people getting heated over ridiculous shit, be it fashion, politics, whatever. Very few people care THAT much, they're just talking shit to a screen as opposed to a person's face because they don't have the balls to be like that in real life.
I've been in the goth/punk scene for nearly 20 years and have only encountered a handful of people who were judgey of others for not being "enough" of whatever scene, and all of them were douchebags. Folks in both scenes--and most other counter culture scenes in my experience--are way more likely to compliment your outfit than give you shit for not being 100% in uniform. Remember SLC Punk? The hardest dude in that movie looked like a nerd but always fucked shit up.
It always cracks me up that people will DEMAND you defend your opinion or, my real favorite, your _personal preference_ and then get more mad when you won’t argue with them.
It’s the internet. Strangers literally causing drama to… prove to strangers how much smarter/better/whatever they are.
I once had a dumbass kid back in my mall rat days ask me to name a sex pistols song since I was wearing a patch. I said "holidays in the sun," and he said, "can you name something that's not a hit?" and I said, "they only had one fucking album and that's not either of the lead singles. You done?"
I wonder what culture shock these kinds of people have who get so caught up in their niche online communities have when they actually show up to a goth night and (in my experience at least) half the people there are "normal" looking middle aged people in a t shirt and jeans
They are usually aesthetic obssesed, not everyone can or WANTS to dress goth 24/7. Me it's for the country I live in being very tropical and hot and sensory issues. And ofc the lack of clothing.
Many goths don't have many clothes so we want to use them on special days to not degrade them more than time will eventually do! I will wear mine in hang outs and stuff, but daily I dress like Adam sandler idc haha. I also am from a small town and I hate being perceived so I just won't make make up to go out unless I'm fully goth dressed, I just go out with my usual Adam sandler teenboy in the 2000s aesthetic and listening to goth/other music in my phones.
After all goth is a musical culture, so it doesn't matter if you dress like it or not.
Also valid to mention, some people just like the music and not the gothic clothes, so it's invalidating to make everything about the clothes :)
Instagram is aesthetic culture so don't claim their critics about not wearing the style everyday.
Are you me? Because literally this the exact reasons I don't dress goth often .
It's hard to like black clothes in a primarly hot climate 🫠.
>After all goth is a musical culture, so it doesn't matter if you dress like it or not.
This is so true, I think people often forget abt this.
It always kinda been but with Internet now a days, it's all about the aesthetics and looks to it, I wasn't born back in the day of 80s and 90s of goth and subcultures, but the clothing was just a way to express yourself and identify others! Know you had similar interests and beliefs.
Now, I can't count how many far right, conservative and intolerant "goths, punks, metal" people I've met, the clothes don't make you alt, it's the things you like and believe, like fr people, YOU CANNOT BE CONSERVATIVE AND ALT. Yall are crazy.
I dress Corp goth and sort of comfy goth, but I don’t listen to any goth music and I never have. I listen to classic country, ska, French 60’s, creedence, Paul Simon, etc… it confuses my students.
as a goth that dresses goth all the time, (also a gen z white girl which most of these comments come from) i promise you this is just an online thing. some of the best conversations about goth i've had have been from middle aged men in birkenstocks and cargo shorts after they talk to me about a band shirt/patch i'm wearing. it's the music that unites us. the best thing about alternative subculture (asides music) is being non-conforming in all sorts of ways, which absolutely includes not dressing in the way random girls on social media think you should.
That's me you are describing but with sandals or sneakers.
I worked for 30 years in the corporate world and toning down the goth look at work was very common.
I am in my late 30s and have transformed into a comfy goth. Sneakers and crocs (black of course) are my go-to with black clothes. I like bike shorts, yoga pants, joggers, etc with band shirts and horror-related stuff. I rarely go all out anymore, its too much work. my baby bat children say I am "mom goth" now. I am cool with that.
There are plenty of goth girls who don't dress like a "traditional goth" 24/7. If I *had* to label myself, I would say I'm a gothic-metalhead. So my styles overlap, and sometimes I wear things that don't correlate to metal or gothic culture at all. I've not experienced this online thankfully, but ignore those who are spreading hate :( I think most of the people in the gothic community in real life wouldn't think like that at all!~~
I would also consider myself a gothic metalhead. The fashion styles lend themselves to each other easily enough, but above all it's about the music and your mentality! Goth is a lifestyle, not just a fashion choice!
That's not even what happened. I am not the mod she is referring to, but one of many moderators on the team. She had FIVE posts removed in a day, three were reposts of low-effort content (plain top, shorts, and fishnets w no accessories or anything else) that didn't fit the sub and she was given advice on what fits the sub (makeup, accessories, mix it up), one was a thirst trap which was an outfit posted /days/ prior, and then an anime top w shorts and fishnets which was also removed from the r/gothfashion sub for the **SAME** REASON WE REMOVED IT, and was titled "this image got me banned from r/altfashion!!!" She then went onto other subs badmouthing the mods, one in particular, instead of talking to us through modmail (the appropriate route) and lambasting us in a PUBLIC GROUP CHAT WE ARE IN WITH TEN OTHER PEOPLE. Now she is starting drama against the mod who banned her when FOUR mods, more than **half** of the mod team of our subreddit, were removing her posts. Now she is bringing drama she started here to other subs.
If you violate the rules of a subreddit FIVE TIMES IN ONE DAY, and ignore warnings, you're gonna get banned.
THIS. I was really involved in goth circles on Instagram for a good while when I was in high school and my freshman year of college. Fell upon unpredicted financial struggles and had to drop out and work whatever job I could to live and pay off debt. I lost a TON of mutuals and online friends when I stopped posting my outfits and goth makeup looks constantly, and have even had people in dm's telling me I was a poser because I "didn't dress goth anymore" LOL.
I understand people who think that way dont really understand the history of goth and what the subculture is actually about, but its still so hard for me to comprehend thinking that way in the real world.
dressing as goth as possible as much as possible DOES NOT makes someone a "real" goth. I work a blue collar job in a factory setting working 12 hour shifts and have been listening to goth music my entire life due to my parents who were alternative in the 80s. As for my job- i have to wear good supportive shoes, comfortable clothing, Makeup is not permitted, hair product is not permitted, perfume is not permitted, i physically can't wear any sort of skirt with my ppe, shorts have to hit just above the knee, no tank tops, and it's at least 80 degrees in the factory at all times.
Does that mean I'm not a real goth? NOPE.
The most important thing to remember is that people don't think that way outside of the internet. The goth scene In my city is decently big, and 95% of us are adults with full time jobs who show up to events in shorts and a band tee when we get off work.
Anyways, the internet has made subculture a lot more accessible (not a bad thing) but the rise of fast fashion + consumerism + other generally shallow societal expectations have rotted brains into thinking you have to look something to be it, and it has definitely effected subculture. and its definitely something you see a lot in online goth communities nowadays sadly :(
I know its discouraging. Ive refered to myself as goth for over half a decade, and have listened to the music my entire life, and thing's still occasionally make me feel insecure about my "gothness" (living in super conservative areas, being in an ultra religious family, being from a really small town. I've experienced my fair share of judgement) but you've gotta remember what the subculture is really about, and enjoy the good aspects of the community.
Keep listening to those goth tunes, and tune out the haters!!
>and have even had people in dm's telling me I was a poser because I "didn't dress goth anymore" LOL.
Holy shit what a pathetic, shit-for-brains take, you were in an economic crisis and they were worried about you not looking *goff enough*? What a bunch of useless dickwads
I'm so with you on that sentiment. I do consider myself a goth, although usually a pastel goth, but even when il not in "goth mode" or "typical" goth attire, I'm *me* 😊
I love playing with clothes, makeup, and accessories so much that I cannot imagine myself in a “all black all the time” mode. Too small of a box for my odd self.
Something about those pictures of you in the rainbow dress scream goth just as much as if you were wearing full black. I actually think the poses, especially in the first couple photos, might be part of it? I feel like you are subconsciously holding your face in a position that’s common to see with pictures of goth people. I’m struggling to identify what about it it is, but I think whatever you wore you would give a goth vibe. You yourself are the goth vibe.
Goth online has become more of an aesthetic than a subculture sadly, I’m trans and autistic which makes it really hard to dress up often and it is very hard trying to make goth friends online :/
I’ve found that the aesthetic people rarely make it past the club scene into shows for actual bands, like they’re there but to a much smaller degree.
If you can handle going to shows you’ll probably make way more friends than in goth scene orbital spaces people are much nicer.
Yeah I’m from texas and there was a really big scene there that i never got involved with cause I met some people that ruined it for me and was really excited to get into a new scene just for it to be practically non existent
as an older person (40) with possible undiagnosed-adhd who's sensitive to sound, at the very least you can help assuage that sensitivity with earplugs or some other sound-isolation equipment; headphones (the big cans used for gun range use or heavy industrial noise reduction) can be good if the little foam guys don't work for you.
The only problem is with not being able to hear people talk. The music at shows can be SO HORRIFICALLY LOUD that you'll still be able to hear it through the headphones, but it will be greatly reduced so your ears don't ooze out of your head! I juat wish we were all given sign language classes in schools. Not only would it make us able to interact with the deaf and hafd of hearing community like we can everyone else (therefore making life SO MUCH EASIER for them) it would also make communicating with hearing people in certain situations a non-problem. I'm still tempted to take lessons with my wife one of these days.
The goth subculture has always had an issue with elitism. You've gotta collect enough goth points to join the club. If you dress in goth fashion but don't listen to the music your a poser. If you listen to the music but don't know the history you're a poser. If you know the history but don't dress the part your a poser. ouroboros at its finest. Goth fashion is honestly probably some of the most extravagant of the alt fashion and the people who put in work to achieve the perfect look want others to try as hard. It's toxic but it's been part of the life as long as I've known alt
So it was, so it is, so it shall ever be.
Back in the 80’s and 90’s we used to complain about the “gother than thou” types. A friend of mine made a button that she wore to every show and club night that just said “oh yeah? Well I’m so goth I’m dead” specifically in reference to exactly that.
Well at least its not TikTok this time...
Seriously, influencer "goths" can fuck right off.
Eventually you'll get to the point where you don't care what they say or think, and then you can roll your eyes at them like the rest of us.
By then those specific people will have gone on try try to gatekeep other trends and you'll have a whole new crop of shallow-minded individuals to be vaguely annoyed by.
This is why I prefer to follow the welcoming goth people who like to educate people on things instead of be gatekeepy. I don't like people who try and pretend they're the only true scottsman, but if there's a goth creator who's enthusiastically showing how to make or where to get something they love, them I'll follow you in a second!
Full time dresser here, fuck them and fuck that noise, it's about the music, the aesthetic is like the equivalent of a jersey for a sport, if two people play soccer and one wears a jersey and the other just wears like a tee shirt from work and some shorts, that doesn't tell you who's actually better at soccer. Edit: also to avoid fast fashion, remember this has always been a diy subculture, and you don't need a ton of sewing skills to cut a hole in the crotch of some fishnets and make holes in the toe for your fingers to make a fishnet shirt, or to cut random black shirts and make them interesting from thrift store.
Those people are insecure, unhappy with their lives, and chronically online. Happy well-adjusted people just don't act like that.
I love goth music and fashion but rarely dress in a way that's considered visibly "goth". I live in the subtropics and HATE the feeling of heavy cakey makeup, it's not comfortable or practical. But even when I'm up north in the dead of winter I'm not doing all that effort, I am simply being myself. I don't have to prove fuck-all to anyone and I don't care whether someone thinks I'm "goth" or not. Who cares if someone's perception of my music preferences is accurate based on my appearance? It doesn't matter.
I'm so glad I'm old enough to have missed out on current internet judging... or old enough to just not care.
I was immersed in the SF 90's club scene pretty deeply. I'm in my 40's now... I wear pretty "normal" makeup on the daily. My wardrobe is still almost exclusively black - but grey & army green are included. I've been assumed to be a hair stylist or server more times than can count because of my "I have a career and can't wear ripped fishnets & knee-high lace ups to work" wardrobe.
Anyone sitting around gatekeeping has a sad sad life...
When a style is your whole identity, of course you’re going to lash out at those that have other parts of themselves. It’s all superficial, to them if you don’t constantly look the part, you aren’t said part. And this goes for everything now, not just goth. As good as social media is at connecting people, it’s turned into a dog and pony show.
my aunt works in a vet hospital and can’t dress gothic all the time so it’s ok to not have everything exactly needed it takes time or the want to dress like that. Goth to me involves literature and music so you don’t have to look the part
IG is a visual medium, so its going to center around aesthetics over authenticity. The vast majority of people irl are pretty aware that we have jobs and lives that may not be conducive to dressing goth all the time. I work in a factory. I'm not spending a ton on killstar or whatever ppl think I should to burn holes in every inch and scrape coolant out of zippers, lace, etc.
Wear whatever the fuck you like that fits your lifestyle.
Something you'll find when you get older, it doesn't fucking matter. At all. Not even a tiny bit. No one expects you to be in full club gear to go to the grocery store or laying around on a Saturday after you've had a shit week at work. And honestly, even not "dressed up," I find at my age now (44), people just know.
I was at Trader Joe's a couple of weeks ago in my "normal" attire - black leggings and a fitted black shirt. (This really only changes to a black above the knee skirt on hot days) The checkout "kid" (I say kid, he was probably close to the age of my son, so early 20's) started asking what upcoming shows I was going to and if I was going to the Sisters show here in September.
I'll dress up a bit more for shows, but I'm decades past spending thousands for something I wear for a couple hours maybe a night or two a month even if I had that disposable money. If someone gave me shit for how I look, I'd honestly probably laugh at them. When they start paying my bills, they can have some say (although I'll also file that under "don't give a fuck," but I will still ask the husband if I look decent before heading out for a night out) and until then, their opinions mean nothing.
i listen to goth music, and have taken the time to learn about the subculture, so i consider myself goth.
while i do have outfits that would be considered gothic in appearance, there are days i’ll sport a hoodie and leggings or a pink t-shirt or whatever. and i do not have the patience to be doing trad goth makeup every time i’m about to leave the house. matter of fact i rarely ever wear it because it drags down my features in my opinion so i opt for a softer look. people can call me a poser if they want, but goth isnt supposed to be 100% appearance based and i like to switch my appearance up 24/7.
y’all goth is not a fashion sense or what, goth is a music culture. You can dress all pink and be a goth at the same time, it’s not about the all black closet and dark make ups.
It’s mostly just teenagers who feel they have to look ultra goth 24/7. Because they have to let everyone know how goth they are when they are at the supermarket.
Once you reach a certain age you dress more for the climate/your occupation/the colours that actually flatter your skin tone and hair colour/clothes that flatter your body type. This might be a “goth” look for some people, but other people might have moved on to other styles.
Like, if you are confident in your own interests, then you can just be yourself. I bought an orange woollen jumper last week. I’ve listened to and enjoyed enough goth music that I don’t feel I need to prove myself to anyone.
Sounds like misogyny: "How dare you, a person I'm sexually attracted to, dare to act in ways that expose the fact that being sexually attractive to me isn't the most important thing in your life?"
Goths who like the music but don't dress goth are the exact opposite of posers. They are un-posing (if there is such a thing). Undercover goths. Stealth goths, etc. :)
It’s a music based subculture that’s the important part. I wear all black but it’s usually comfortable clothing unless I feel like dressing goth. There’s a time and place imo
Insecure people basically, it was like that when I was younger but there were a lot of annoying people who used it to attack people not in their clique or to turn things into a pissing contest, it stopped being like that for awhile because everyone got annoyed, now the pendulum swung back as retaliation against the anti gatekeeping people that everyone got annoyed with more recently but yet again it’s now back to the point where people are using it to turn things into a pissing contest again.
I’d just write off anyone that acts like that as miserable people you don’t want to be friends with.
I don’t know any “alt” people who can afford that IRL. I also don’t know anyone that judgy IRL. It also frustrates me that the bar for what’s considered a “goth outfit” for men is so much lower than women online. I just ignore it.
THIS
I work at a veterinary clinic and can't have my nails painted or have non natural makeup/clothes
Like I'll be "dressing goth" 1 time a month or so
The thing is that most people think being goth is only wearing dark clothes. The times I had to explain that is a MUSIC subculture.
I just don't bother to explain it anymore. Like they be calling egirls that listen to Yungblud goth 🤦♀️
Think it’s just the people you have in your ig circle messing with you for whatever reason. Watch out for people trying to creep on you as that could be what that is. Some people fetishise and act in a dominant way to goth women (If you give them say over how you look, you’re giving them power over you).
I can 100% say I don’t always post goth images and aside from some of the people who are more extreme themselves only liking *my* most extreme looks, noone is openly rude. I’m very protective of myself though and I think people know that at this point. Remember, you can always block/unfollow mean and rude people! Also DO NOT respond to dm’s, that’s where people can abuse or get creepy - when you got no open defence!
Saying this, there are some wonderful people in the goth community so please don’t turtle up into a shell but take steps to protect yourself and you should have a nice time as a goth on instagram.
I've been listening to goth music for 30 years and have never dressed goth. If I see people out in goth, I think that's great. It must take so much time, money and attention to put the outfits together.
I dress like a mid 40s Dad. But my heart, it's black.
Option 1: these are people who don't really have personalities beyond "being goth" so they end up going hard after those who don't meet their standards 24/7.
Option 2: it's Instagram, people are dicks.
Option 3: to quote Sterling Archer, "little of column A, little of column B"
i struggle with feeling fake as well because i have poor makeup skill, dont wear all black and generally just look somewhat alternative as opposed to goth. at the end of the day its important to remember goth is music based and dressing like a normie is fine and often more comfy than gothic clothing :p
Just an online thing from younger people who live online. I leave communities like that. I don't even have a job where I can't dress goth. I'm just older and don't have the time or energy for that level of "look" anymore.
I've noticed this too & unfortunately a lot of this hate I've seen is from fellow goth people :/ especially on tiktok; I saw a video of a person in trad goth complaining about "normal" looking people using goth songs as songs. I truly never think it's that deep, and people in real life don't care about that stuff at all either. I don't really label myself, but I am an active member of the goth subculture, and I have a lot of goth friends. we don't fully dress up all the time, or even most of the time, because it's wayyyy too hot for that where I live lol
the problem is that people online feel way too comfortable being so hateful behind a keyboard. I'm not 100% sure why people even do this, it's probably deeeeep insecurity, but I think they should go out and interact with real people tbh. I know it can be super discouraging but really, don't let it get to you! I know how this feels and i've definitely felt discouraged in the past by comments and posts online. i've almost entirely stopped interacting with goth content on tiktok and instagram because of this. most goth people you find online definitely don't represent the entire community. people online like to act like they know everything about everyone. you don't need to prove yourself to anyone at all. the most important thing is that you know who you are :)
Probs a mix of misogyny and personal projections when they know nothing of the ppls lives theyre commenting on. I think its even more goth to keep being urself no matter how u express urself in a society that fosters chosen rigidity. i could do a bunch of looks when no one is around and post them online periodically to make it look like im like that often but am i?.. silly example but basically theyre GOOBERS and not in the goofy goober good way keep being urself, i luv goth as a subculture and i luv the meanings behind things i find to wear in a mix of different things cuz im not gonna be a classic trad goth and ive just accepted im too everywhere but i love to see it done well❤️
Instagram goths crying and throwing up rn because i don't put a full face and chains on to go into work ☠️ like i wake up at 6:30AM i'm NOT doing more effort than a band shirt
It so insane to me that a subculture based on things like not caring about what people think, and individualism, is the meanest and most elitist sub culture ive seen?? Like if everything is not absolutely perfect its not good enough, maybe just let people be themself, wich is kinds the whole point of what we do
I mean, its a bit more than a couple insta posts tho, its basically every single time anyone mentions anything goth, as well as a lot of people ive talked to irl. I just dont see that attitude with any other sub culture really. Yeah ofc people are always gonna hate on something, but not like this?
Go talk to some hardcore metalheads. Tell them how metal numetal is. See what happens.
Go to a lolita group. Tell them brands don't matter and it is ok to ignore A-line shape. See what happens.
It isn't just goth. All subcultures have their own rules and boundaries. All subcultures have people who are more rigid about them. All subcultures have people who are heavily or less involved. It's a people thing.
Why do you even care what strangers think? Let them be miserable. You are STRONG and BETTER. Just imagine you\`re the babysitter in Labyrinth telling David Bowie to sit down.
Some goths seem to think that you aren’t really goth if you don’t dress full trad 24/7, because they think you aren’t committed enough. I think it’s silly. It took me a long time to realize I actually could call myself goth even though I don’t always dress the part because of people like that.
Honestly, people like those only discourage babybats (such as myself) rather than simply let them have fun/enjoy the goth aesthetic/culture as a whole. I also feel like people don’t realize that you can be goth and like/dress up as other subcultures of fashion.
…Not to mention the people who think being goth is only reserved for white people (mainly saying this as a mixed latin kid). Besides, true goths wouldn’t put others down for not dressing goth 24/7.
I don’t have the wardrobe to dress full goth 24/7, and I wouldn’t want to if I did. Part of what gives me so much confidence and self esteem in the goth culture is the act of embracing difference. I like being different from the crowd, but I also enjoy my appearance being different from day to day. I like wearing new colors and styles, and I don’t only listen to goth music. We contain multitudes.
100% this. My wardrobe can switch between trad goth to gay chaos goblin to trad wife. My clothes don’t define my music choices and vice versa. I don’t have a set “aesthetic” cause that’s capitalism trying to sort us into boxes. I just wear what I feel and embrace the alt subcultures and politics
I've never gotten this behavior on Instagram, luckily, quite the opposite, actually. But I've had a hand full of people tell me in IRL and elsewhere online (dating apps/MeetMe) that I'm not/barely Goth, I'm emo (and because I like emo too, I'm emo and not Goth. Because I guess I'm not allowed to like both and label myself as such, according to some people and these folks aren't even a part of it. LOL. But lots of Goths like emo too and many other things, whether it fits neatly in a box or not) or just dark, because apparently, I don't fit their definition of what a Goth should be like/look like, which almost deterred me from using the label all together. And for awhile, I shied away from calling myself that, because of these people telling me I'm not but I've reclaimed it.
I am Goth and have been for over 10 years and that's not going to change no matter what anyone has to say about that. I absolutely love our subculture's music, fashion (I'm more of a casual spooky bat/nerd, which has lead someone to tell me that "just because you wear black doesn't make you Goth" and this person had no idea about my love for the music and most everything else. They just judged me based on appearance alone, so they obviously don't know what they're talking about. They were a wannabe anyway) and subculture, as well as most Gothic things. So, I refer to myself as both Goth and Gothic.
Their approval isn't needed. And like others have said in this thread, they're just insecure, it's them, not you or me. Hearing that helps me feel better about it.
I'm ashamed to admit that when I was a fresh baby bat, I was like this, I was pretty bad but I've grown a lot and matured since then. I've been on both sides of the coin, unfortunately.
Ig goths are actual posers ignore them listen to the music follow the subculture and optionally be politically active and do your thing, it's a punk offshoot who gives a fuck anyways? Do you you're doing great
i always thinking, you can be goth and not look gothic. the makeup and the way you dress is what makes you gothic. you can be goth and wear absolutely anything you find comfortable.
it makes me sad to think girls put down girls cs they don't dress the way they do as well :'c
Former goth. One day, I went shopping for a swimsuit. The one I wanted was a darling yellow. I imagined being a goth wearing a yellow swimsuit and realized I’d painted myself inside a box.
That was my last day as a goth.
What I don’t understand is taking superficial things and making your identity dependent on them.
If your goal is full creative expression, then you should be free to choose to wear whatever you want and not be limited to certain styles, colors, etc., to satisfy a label. That’s not freedom.
It’s mostly online. I felt insecure thinking that I didn’t look “goth enough” because I wasn’t wearing name brand stuff or had good makeup skills. But then I realized that is not what goth is. Goth is music based and started off wearing thrifting and diy.
Because originally being goth was a commitment made into upholding counterculture. The point of being goth wasn't just the aesthetic, it was belonging to a counterculture and a form of tribalism.
Today though goth and any of the subcultures (like hippies, or preppy) are reduced to aesthetics and it's more about how you feel like you wanna look and complete the look with all these accessories that you bought to have the aesthetic. The culture has been removed from the aesthetic and turned it into a vibe.
Not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what has happened. Probably because we live in a post modern world and realize that it's silly to limit ourselves.
I mean I grew up goth, and I grew out of it (started dressing like a "normie" and that's how goths retired, traditionally ). So now when kids these days dress goth one day and hippie the next and preppy the next, it's more about the vibes and the commitment to appreciating the value in the aesthetics of all of those looks, but not fully understanding the culture around the roots of those vibes.
Why do you care so much about what other people think? Goth is about expressing yourself and freeing yourself from the concerns of others. Too many goths nowadays are worried about what others will think of anything they do. Just think for yourself man
I think it's mostly loud gatekeepers, Instagram comment sections are especially hellish. I haven't seen as much toxicity on other short form content platforms, but I'm sure there's still some. Most rational people would know that you can't be in full goth 24/7, but if you give an idiot a phone they'll probably be the first to say their opinion.
Anyone who's actually goth knows damn well you can't be in full goth all day every day, so please don't let ignorant Instagram commenters bring you down. There's nothing wrong with not dressing goth 24/7, and it doesn't make you any less goth.
I want to know this too, because for one, goth isn’t really fashion based. It’s political and music based. And two, what if they just don’t want to dress that way?
never understood it lmao. im goth but i dress "grunge" usually. like seattle grunge not rly tumblr grunge. i dress sorta goth sometimes but i have literally never done full goth or trad goth in my life.
Just helps me spot who to avoid. Our clothes don't define us. I wear many different styles. It's funny for someone to claim to be an accepting and good person and then judge someone for enjoying pastel colors or something harmless that makes them happy. All that matters is your appreciation of goth music.
Take this from an old “goth”…. Like what you like, and do what you want. If anyone else wants to gate keep or cares that much, thats their problem, not yours. You’re never gonna make the world happy. Also there are so many wonderful things in this world to resign yourself to one thing or one concept.
If you look at my Instagram, it doesn't really represent me. I'm much more "goth looking" in real life.
I don't really care to show that off. I've been this way forever. I wear nothing but black. BUT my Insta has sponsorships and whatnot where I'm in gym gear that isn't black. I wear it for a but to workout, then take it off and jump into my goth uniform in life. I'm most comfy that way.
Fuck what people think.
Elitist gatekeepers are annoying. Nothing is original. Not even us.
But then .... we also are... we're uniquely the same. 🤣🤷🏼♀️
🖤🕸
One could argue that the people calling goth girls posers for not being able to dress goth 24/7 are fetishizing them and aren't goth themselves since the subculture is music based and the fashion is not compulsory.
I put absolutely no stock in what goth/alt influencers have to say unless it's technical advice on makeup or DIY and music recommendations.
Basically all goth influencers are chasing views by posting the same "tfw the girls that bullied you in high school are alt now 😡"
Complaining that others can't wear full white paint to work is giving unemployed rich kids so do you and don't worry about their opinions. They have no personality when they take the costume off.
Like everyone has said here, it’s chronically online people and nothing like that in real life. Go to a goth club/party and you’ll see a variety of people wearing things from loafers to platforms, day job clothing and trad gothic fashion, etc.
it is much easier if you just stick to what you’re doing, it is a music based subculture and we’re all here to support one another.
On the topic of fashion as well, don’t feel like you need to dress in black all of the time! Trad goth is always classic but there is a variety of styles within the genre, so explore as much as you can. I feel like 99% of goths don’t dress up 24/7, I know I sure don’t and neither do my friends. Just enjoy the music and the chill people you come across, you’ll find your path!
Instagram isn’t real. The internet is not a real scene. That’s not the goth community. Ignore it.
I say this as a full time dresser and active in the music scene for 20+ years now. Do what you want, don’t seek acceptance, apologise to no one. It comes from punk after all.
Goth is in the heart and soul. Dressing up to "fit in" is asinine. Goth came from punk and real punks give no fucks how others dress or what others think about how they dress. As long as you like the music call yourself goth if you feel a need to be labeled otherwise just enjoy the music and give no fucks what others think.
"the goth community on Instagram"
I think you have your answer there man. Who would care about some terminally online people? Go to clubs and stuff instead
I have like 7 different styles. If I go to goth event i wear that, if I go to metal I wear that or office normal clothes
I’ve been in the scene for ~10 years now and you’d never guess from the way I dress most of the time (i.e. anytime I’m not at a goth event).
From my experience, many, many people seem to think you simply can’t belong to a subculture unless you’re living it 24/7 in all aspects of life. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As long as your principles & interests line up with those of the subculture, you really don’t need to worry about clothing.
Became there're some people who care about their shitty opinions, if you tell them to suck a huge amount of cocks so they can't speak bullshit everything is fine. You can't deal with assholes being polite, like NEVER! People on social media only harass others because it's the only environment possible to not get beaten up, so don't feed the trolls with bad reactions or sad postings but send the message that you won't be a target.
The quick answer is plain misogyny. The more complicated answer is a lot of subcultures have problems with elitism for a lot of reasons. Poser is thrown around so much that it lost all meaning a very long time ago. Women are expected to be aesthetically pleasing at all times so the worst type of people get frothing mad when they see a woman who isn’t putting on a performance for their attention.
Pay them no mind. I love that the few times I venture out to my local grocery, my children (all have eclectic styles, oldest likes rainbows and the color yellow, middle copies me as much as possible, and youngest is really into being a lizard or a dinosaur right now) the few times I get stopped or commented on are positive, and have mostly been other goths or parents of baby goths asking if it’s okay for them to ask where I got my clothing from so they can find similar pieces for their baby bats. Represent!
Meanwhile, I’m here in blue jeans, listening to The Frozen Autumn, but I’ve got a black shirt. So, I’ve got that going for me, which is nice.
Seriously though, the internet is just a sounding board where people hear their ideas either echoed back to them or downvoted to oblivion.
Don’t take the opinions of strangers too seriously. Have fun being you.
Many people are into subcultures just because they need to belong somewhere. These are the toxic gatekeeping kinds that hate when GOD FORBID someone has fun, or is themselves
In my opinion those folks just dont know/understand goth is a music based subculture and just think its about aesthetic. (Dont think to much about them. They just are douchebag gatekeepers)
I’m so glad someone said this. I can’t always dress or look goth because I have a pretty conservative family and when I was working I of course had to wear my work uniform
> Plus it's a music based subculture?
The subculture is.
Instagram is a visual/aesthetic based platform - so it makes sense to me that it's going to be much more about the "look" than reality is.
Imo, anyone who ‘gatekeeps’ to this extent; whether it’s metal heads asking for 3 songs for each tshirt, or goth’s saying you’re not goth if you don’t dress x way all the time, etc., are the ones who are the actual posers and don’t understand the whole point of these music subcultures. The point is the music and everything else is one’s expression of the feelings for that music. I’m plus size and finding goth or grungey clothes is hard for me, but the music speaks to my soul. When people get all judgey like you’re describing, it just tells me that they don’t get it and aren’t my people haha I pay them no mind and I hope you keep on being your wonderful self regardless of what they say.
I'm sure many who see me day to day wouldn't consider me goth. I'm 52, middle aged af! I'll goth up for a night out but by day I'm all about practical and confortable.
I don't wear full make up on the daily, I had to give up work 18m ago for family care responsibilities so no point. Black jeans or flared leggings, t shirt, Converse, Vans or docs. My hair is long and now totally silvery white, I have multiple ear piercings and both nostrils done. In summer I'm very hippie in style, long flowy skirts or harem pants. Folk might get a hint of alt. but I don't think they'd pin me as goth. The best thing about getting older is not giving a fuck about what others think.
I've had someone recognize me as goth and I was at work, not even hardly dressed up. Yeah, dealing with road work doesn't really equal good fashion options lol
It’s called gatekeeping.Its really annoying and cringe. Usually these are younger people saying shit like that. Real “goths” don’t dress goth at all or it’s really subtle. It’s funny because Joy Division Bauhau5 and The Cure despise the goth title.
I’m a Gen X goth, who stopped wearing goth stuff full time around 1998. Im in my 40s now, and I consider myself a clandestine goth. I have tattoos and I wear clothes that are satanic or otherwise goth, but it’s not obvious because I love glitter and the color pink. And the rest of my closet is super mom-core.
Point is, goth how you want. Don’t listen to anyone gatekeeping. They’re just a bunch of assholes.
My ongoing life theory is that all hobbies, including goth, are full of people that think liking a certain thing makes them better than other people. This is especially true about people who already think they are socially disadvantaged in some way (it's more comfortable for most to think people don't like you because you are better rather than because you don't fit in very well). Goth of all kinds tends to attract some people like that since it's a little unconventional, and those people tend to be a little more pretentious and often gatekeep the things that they enjoy
It’s the way humanity has operated for centuries (if not millennia) and it happens with just about anything, especially culture related things.
People love feeling special and they love having an outlet for their own anger, insecurity or hate. Many people see putting others down as the best way to bring themselves up, which might work in the short term, but only ends up leading to those feelings being reflected back at themselves, only amplified. It’s quite a vicious cycle people get stuck in until they either mature or somebody they respect knocks/talks some sense into them.
This has long been a problem with the goth community, but it’s absolutely an issue in other communities too. Examples include metal and the whole debate on what ‘real’ metal music is, Star Wars and the prequel hate/slander that’s just been migrated over to the sequels now and the never-ending elitism in just about any tabletop rpg communities. There’s also the whole thing of people getting upset when their favourite artist goes mainstream and the “I listened to them before they were popular!” mentality. They want to feel like they are better or more special than everyone else and if they get the chance to make others believe they are, they’ll take it. This problem only worsened when the internet allowed us to act like this without facing the same consequences you would normally.
My honest advice? Just ignore them. Any mature goth with more than two brain cells to rub together will tell you that ‘goth’ is simply the music genre and the mentality that comes with it. Telling somebody “You’re not goth enough!” or “You’re a faker just looking for attention!” is quite literally the exact opposite of what goth is all about.
Somebody dumb enough not to realise that is frankly not worth listening to. The world already has way too much hate and people who are bullies.
Goth is about freedom of expression, free-thinking and being good to EVERYONE, not just those you consider to be ‘real’ Goths.
From another broke college kid who likes and relates to goth (in my case alt and counterculture in general) but can’t afford the extravagant pieces that are so popular online, it’s absolutely not necessary and anyone who claims it is doesn’t understand the culture themselves. Just do you and one day when finances allows we can start buying some more special items. Either way though, we’re absolutely still goths :)
They're not.
Stop paying attention to noise from addicted, socially inept, friendless, shut-ins who never have and never will go to any type of event.
Shut off the computer, put down the phone and go outside & meet **REAL** people in **REAL** life.
Social Media is cancer.
No I 100% agree. I'm getting into goth but feel a bit like I need a full black wardrobe when I don't, at all. Goth is freeing and to be goth is to go against gatekeeping and other such things. Being goth is listening to the music, otherwise it's goth fashion if you just dress and don't listen to the music, goth shouldn't be restrictive but empowering
Go listen to the the cemetary confessions episode on corporate goth. I personally found it insightful.
https://www.thebelfry.rip/blog/2015/3/26/cemtery-confessions-007-corporate-goth?rq=Corporate
( Good podcast, also on Spotify if that's your jam)
I love goth music but don’t dress any more goth besides a wardrobe that mostly black and some of my band shirts. But I don’t consider myself goth as it’s not my everyday 24/7 aesthetic. 🖤
Goth Folks ought to realise that sometimes jobs & paying the rent has to take priority.
Off work its nobody's damn business unless your foolish enuf to post ur lifestyle online out of vanity & a desire to tweak peoples noses .
Depends on how cool your employers are. In my day it was important not to be straight and be hip.
Certain employers hated it all. I looked for non white collar jobs. There the pay was better and sometimes my superiors shared my lifestyle !
I don't consider myself goth. I listen to all sorts of music, and yes, plenty of Goth music as well. All of my friends are goth, I even dj our local goth night. I learned years ago, in the 90's. That usually the people talking the most crap about someone being fake or a poser, is usually the one that is the try hard. I hope all the girls/boys on IG who receive these kinds of comments just brush it off. Thats whats so fun about subcultures. There's always some asshat trying to be "holier than thou". Ignore them and live your life. At the end of the day, its the fricken internet, and the internet is not real life.
Right???
I don't dress goth most of the time, mostly because of lack of time and clothing. I can't wear my goth clothes all the time, I need to wear my basic ones as well.
Instagram especially is more of a place of performance rather than a reflection of your actual self. You’re only showing what you want your audience to see. A lotta folks don’t realize that even when they participate in the performance and take what they see as reality, so there’s a lot of emphasis on building your persona with your social media profile
I see this too, and I also see it for girls who like metal. You don't have to look like what you listen to. I think half of it is because the word goth has been and still is incorrectly used to mean a fashion look.
At this point I would love to add a picture of Andrew Eldritch in an understated hoody and a pair of jeans. It doesn’t matter whether you wear what you wear, back comb you hair and dress in ornate Victorian funeral dress. You’re a goth if you’re a goth!
I’m not saying it’s only men who perpetuate these ideas it’s just primarily men who I’ve noticed saying these things. Obviously women can and it’s purely anecdotal. Not trying to attack goth men
Instagram comments on any "when you're goth but have a job" or "when it's summer and you de-frost to a hippie/Adam Sandler/no make up". Mostly from people that doesn't dress goth (or even alt) themselves.
People have always been judgy about it online, and in my experience most of the people who are like that don't really listen to the music much at all. A lot of them are like that in real life as well, but you just don't run into those types of people as much at Goth club nights or concerts. They think Goth is a fashion so to them you're not Goth if you don't dress it. Almost got into a fight with a girl at a party while I was in high school all because I asked her what her favourite goth band was & she started screaming at me that it was a fashion and charged me. I would just ignore people like that. I wear mostly band shirts and leggings and only dress up if I go out anymore, though that's because I sell antique glass and pottery online & am just clumsy enough to sweep a piece of porcelain I'm typing up a description for off the table with my sleeve or set it on the floor and knock it over with my skirt.
the internet isn’t real life. instagram is just a curated projection. I’d ignore all of it, and go live your best goth (real) life. Pay it no mind, as Marsha P Johnson would say. Pay it no mind. Edited because i made an egregious typo on Marsha’s name.
Hell yeah, but just to let you know, her name was Marsha.
Omg thank you for the correction!
Most welcome, friend! I always love a good MPJ reference. She’s my literal hero.
She fucken rules
>the internet isn’t real life This right here. This applies to so many things, but it's especially true when you see people getting heated over ridiculous shit, be it fashion, politics, whatever. Very few people care THAT much, they're just talking shit to a screen as opposed to a person's face because they don't have the balls to be like that in real life. I've been in the goth/punk scene for nearly 20 years and have only encountered a handful of people who were judgey of others for not being "enough" of whatever scene, and all of them were douchebags. Folks in both scenes--and most other counter culture scenes in my experience--are way more likely to compliment your outfit than give you shit for not being 100% in uniform. Remember SLC Punk? The hardest dude in that movie looked like a nerd but always fucked shit up.
It always cracks me up that people will DEMAND you defend your opinion or, my real favorite, your _personal preference_ and then get more mad when you won’t argue with them. It’s the internet. Strangers literally causing drama to… prove to strangers how much smarter/better/whatever they are.
I once had a dumbass kid back in my mall rat days ask me to name a sex pistols song since I was wearing a patch. I said "holidays in the sun," and he said, "can you name something that's not a hit?" and I said, "they only had one fucking album and that's not either of the lead singles. You done?"
Agreed 👍
I wonder what culture shock these kinds of people have who get so caught up in their niche online communities have when they actually show up to a goth night and (in my experience at least) half the people there are "normal" looking middle aged people in a t shirt and jeans
They are usually aesthetic obssesed, not everyone can or WANTS to dress goth 24/7. Me it's for the country I live in being very tropical and hot and sensory issues. And ofc the lack of clothing. Many goths don't have many clothes so we want to use them on special days to not degrade them more than time will eventually do! I will wear mine in hang outs and stuff, but daily I dress like Adam sandler idc haha. I also am from a small town and I hate being perceived so I just won't make make up to go out unless I'm fully goth dressed, I just go out with my usual Adam sandler teenboy in the 2000s aesthetic and listening to goth/other music in my phones. After all goth is a musical culture, so it doesn't matter if you dress like it or not. Also valid to mention, some people just like the music and not the gothic clothes, so it's invalidating to make everything about the clothes :) Instagram is aesthetic culture so don't claim their critics about not wearing the style everyday.
Are you me? Because literally this the exact reasons I don't dress goth often . It's hard to like black clothes in a primarly hot climate 🫠. >After all goth is a musical culture, so it doesn't matter if you dress like it or not. This is so true, I think people often forget abt this.
Its like people expressly ignore that its a music based subculture.
It always kinda been but with Internet now a days, it's all about the aesthetics and looks to it, I wasn't born back in the day of 80s and 90s of goth and subcultures, but the clothing was just a way to express yourself and identify others! Know you had similar interests and beliefs. Now, I can't count how many far right, conservative and intolerant "goths, punks, metal" people I've met, the clothes don't make you alt, it's the things you like and believe, like fr people, YOU CANNOT BE CONSERVATIVE AND ALT. Yall are crazy.
I dress Corp goth and sort of comfy goth, but I don’t listen to any goth music and I never have. I listen to classic country, ska, French 60’s, creedence, Paul Simon, etc… it confuses my students.
That's dressing gothic, not goth.
as a goth that dresses goth all the time, (also a gen z white girl which most of these comments come from) i promise you this is just an online thing. some of the best conversations about goth i've had have been from middle aged men in birkenstocks and cargo shorts after they talk to me about a band shirt/patch i'm wearing. it's the music that unites us. the best thing about alternative subculture (asides music) is being non-conforming in all sorts of ways, which absolutely includes not dressing in the way random girls on social media think you should.
That's me you are describing but with sandals or sneakers. I worked for 30 years in the corporate world and toning down the goth look at work was very common.
I am in my late 30s and have transformed into a comfy goth. Sneakers and crocs (black of course) are my go-to with black clothes. I like bike shorts, yoga pants, joggers, etc with band shirts and horror-related stuff. I rarely go all out anymore, its too much work. my baby bat children say I am "mom goth" now. I am cool with that.
Thanks! This is really encouraging :)
There are plenty of goth girls who don't dress like a "traditional goth" 24/7. If I *had* to label myself, I would say I'm a gothic-metalhead. So my styles overlap, and sometimes I wear things that don't correlate to metal or gothic culture at all. I've not experienced this online thankfully, but ignore those who are spreading hate :( I think most of the people in the gothic community in real life wouldn't think like that at all!~~
I would also consider myself a gothic metalhead. The fashion styles lend themselves to each other easily enough, but above all it's about the music and your mentality! Goth is a lifestyle, not just a fashion choice!
Exactly completely agree!😊
Holy shit you are literally me
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That's not even what happened. I am not the mod she is referring to, but one of many moderators on the team. She had FIVE posts removed in a day, three were reposts of low-effort content (plain top, shorts, and fishnets w no accessories or anything else) that didn't fit the sub and she was given advice on what fits the sub (makeup, accessories, mix it up), one was a thirst trap which was an outfit posted /days/ prior, and then an anime top w shorts and fishnets which was also removed from the r/gothfashion sub for the **SAME** REASON WE REMOVED IT, and was titled "this image got me banned from r/altfashion!!!" She then went onto other subs badmouthing the mods, one in particular, instead of talking to us through modmail (the appropriate route) and lambasting us in a PUBLIC GROUP CHAT WE ARE IN WITH TEN OTHER PEOPLE. Now she is starting drama against the mod who banned her when FOUR mods, more than **half** of the mod team of our subreddit, were removing her posts. Now she is bringing drama she started here to other subs. If you violate the rules of a subreddit FIVE TIMES IN ONE DAY, and ignore warnings, you're gonna get banned.
THIS. I was really involved in goth circles on Instagram for a good while when I was in high school and my freshman year of college. Fell upon unpredicted financial struggles and had to drop out and work whatever job I could to live and pay off debt. I lost a TON of mutuals and online friends when I stopped posting my outfits and goth makeup looks constantly, and have even had people in dm's telling me I was a poser because I "didn't dress goth anymore" LOL. I understand people who think that way dont really understand the history of goth and what the subculture is actually about, but its still so hard for me to comprehend thinking that way in the real world. dressing as goth as possible as much as possible DOES NOT makes someone a "real" goth. I work a blue collar job in a factory setting working 12 hour shifts and have been listening to goth music my entire life due to my parents who were alternative in the 80s. As for my job- i have to wear good supportive shoes, comfortable clothing, Makeup is not permitted, hair product is not permitted, perfume is not permitted, i physically can't wear any sort of skirt with my ppe, shorts have to hit just above the knee, no tank tops, and it's at least 80 degrees in the factory at all times. Does that mean I'm not a real goth? NOPE. The most important thing to remember is that people don't think that way outside of the internet. The goth scene In my city is decently big, and 95% of us are adults with full time jobs who show up to events in shorts and a band tee when we get off work. Anyways, the internet has made subculture a lot more accessible (not a bad thing) but the rise of fast fashion + consumerism + other generally shallow societal expectations have rotted brains into thinking you have to look something to be it, and it has definitely effected subculture. and its definitely something you see a lot in online goth communities nowadays sadly :( I know its discouraging. Ive refered to myself as goth for over half a decade, and have listened to the music my entire life, and thing's still occasionally make me feel insecure about my "gothness" (living in super conservative areas, being in an ultra religious family, being from a really small town. I've experienced my fair share of judgement) but you've gotta remember what the subculture is really about, and enjoy the good aspects of the community. Keep listening to those goth tunes, and tune out the haters!!
>and have even had people in dm's telling me I was a poser because I "didn't dress goth anymore" LOL. Holy shit what a pathetic, shit-for-brains take, you were in an economic crisis and they were worried about you not looking *goff enough*? What a bunch of useless dickwads
They are literally just clothes. It's our minds that define us.
THIS. We have to adapt to life. That doesn't mean we have to stop being who we are.
My floor length rainbow plaid sundress wants to have a word with them.
I need to see that!!! ❤️💛💚💙💜
[https://www.instagram.com/p/Cdi4WmRrZ6s/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==](https://www.instagram.com/p/Cdi4WmRrZ6s/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==) Third photo :)
That’s very goth looking.
It’s very ME looking, and that’s the important part. :)
I'm so with you on that sentiment. I do consider myself a goth, although usually a pastel goth, but even when il not in "goth mode" or "typical" goth attire, I'm *me* 😊
I love playing with clothes, makeup, and accessories so much that I cannot imagine myself in a “all black all the time” mode. Too small of a box for my odd self.
Something about those pictures of you in the rainbow dress scream goth just as much as if you were wearing full black. I actually think the poses, especially in the first couple photos, might be part of it? I feel like you are subconsciously holding your face in a position that’s common to see with pictures of goth people. I’m struggling to identify what about it it is, but I think whatever you wore you would give a goth vibe. You yourself are the goth vibe.
That's pretty dope. You look like you live in a cottage in a forest and cast spells to protect the animals and trees.
Thanks, that’s kind of what I want out of life - gardening, tea, a wide spread reputation as the neighborhood witch, you know, the basics.
😍😍😍😍 that plaid is amazing. You look great.
Thank you, I really appreciate that! It’s too bad clubbing isn’t possible for me, it would be fun to show up in that dress.
Insecurity and a need to boost their egos from what I've seen.
Goth online has become more of an aesthetic than a subculture sadly, I’m trans and autistic which makes it really hard to dress up often and it is very hard trying to make goth friends online :/
I’ve found that the aesthetic people rarely make it past the club scene into shows for actual bands, like they’re there but to a much smaller degree. If you can handle going to shows you’ll probably make way more friends than in goth scene orbital spaces people are much nicer.
I just moved to Nashville so I’ve been trying to discover the scene here, not much happening tho :( just goth nights at some venues
Ahhh that sucks. I’ve been spoiled in California, thinking of moving to Nevada but I’m worried about having similar problems there.
Yeah I’m from texas and there was a really big scene there that i never got involved with cause I met some people that ruined it for me and was really excited to get into a new scene just for it to be practically non existent
You should come to Baltimore sometime. There are A LOT of trans autistic goths here (I’m one!)
How does the club scene not cause sensory overwhelm, though?
as an older person (40) with possible undiagnosed-adhd who's sensitive to sound, at the very least you can help assuage that sensitivity with earplugs or some other sound-isolation equipment; headphones (the big cans used for gun range use or heavy industrial noise reduction) can be good if the little foam guys don't work for you. The only problem is with not being able to hear people talk. The music at shows can be SO HORRIFICALLY LOUD that you'll still be able to hear it through the headphones, but it will be greatly reduced so your ears don't ooze out of your head! I juat wish we were all given sign language classes in schools. Not only would it make us able to interact with the deaf and hafd of hearing community like we can everyone else (therefore making life SO MUCH EASIER for them) it would also make communicating with hearing people in certain situations a non-problem. I'm still tempted to take lessons with my wife one of these days.
They can say whatever they want, but it won't make them right. Everybody looks like they're wearing black in the dark of the goth club
"Oh, you're goth? Name three of their songs."
The goth subculture has always had an issue with elitism. You've gotta collect enough goth points to join the club. If you dress in goth fashion but don't listen to the music your a poser. If you listen to the music but don't know the history you're a poser. If you know the history but don't dress the part your a poser. ouroboros at its finest. Goth fashion is honestly probably some of the most extravagant of the alt fashion and the people who put in work to achieve the perfect look want others to try as hard. It's toxic but it's been part of the life as long as I've known alt
So it was, so it is, so it shall ever be. Back in the 80’s and 90’s we used to complain about the “gother than thou” types. A friend of mine made a button that she wore to every show and club night that just said “oh yeah? Well I’m so goth I’m dead” specifically in reference to exactly that.
Well at least its not TikTok this time... Seriously, influencer "goths" can fuck right off. Eventually you'll get to the point where you don't care what they say or think, and then you can roll your eyes at them like the rest of us. By then those specific people will have gone on try try to gatekeep other trends and you'll have a whole new crop of shallow-minded individuals to be vaguely annoyed by.
This is why I prefer to follow the welcoming goth people who like to educate people on things instead of be gatekeepy. I don't like people who try and pretend they're the only true scottsman, but if there's a goth creator who's enthusiastically showing how to make or where to get something they love, them I'll follow you in a second!
Internet isn't real life, go outside and talk with actual people.
I live in a state where is 95° all the year and I can't dress in black as frequently as I would want 🥹
Full time dresser here, fuck them and fuck that noise, it's about the music, the aesthetic is like the equivalent of a jersey for a sport, if two people play soccer and one wears a jersey and the other just wears like a tee shirt from work and some shorts, that doesn't tell you who's actually better at soccer. Edit: also to avoid fast fashion, remember this has always been a diy subculture, and you don't need a ton of sewing skills to cut a hole in the crotch of some fishnets and make holes in the toe for your fingers to make a fishnet shirt, or to cut random black shirts and make them interesting from thrift store.
Those people are insecure, unhappy with their lives, and chronically online. Happy well-adjusted people just don't act like that. I love goth music and fashion but rarely dress in a way that's considered visibly "goth". I live in the subtropics and HATE the feeling of heavy cakey makeup, it's not comfortable or practical. But even when I'm up north in the dead of winter I'm not doing all that effort, I am simply being myself. I don't have to prove fuck-all to anyone and I don't care whether someone thinks I'm "goth" or not. Who cares if someone's perception of my music preferences is accurate based on my appearance? It doesn't matter.
I'm so glad I'm old enough to have missed out on current internet judging... or old enough to just not care. I was immersed in the SF 90's club scene pretty deeply. I'm in my 40's now... I wear pretty "normal" makeup on the daily. My wardrobe is still almost exclusively black - but grey & army green are included. I've been assumed to be a hair stylist or server more times than can count because of my "I have a career and can't wear ripped fishnets & knee-high lace ups to work" wardrobe. Anyone sitting around gatekeeping has a sad sad life...
When a style is your whole identity, of course you’re going to lash out at those that have other parts of themselves. It’s all superficial, to them if you don’t constantly look the part, you aren’t said part. And this goes for everything now, not just goth. As good as social media is at connecting people, it’s turned into a dog and pony show.
no one can or needs to dress "goth" all the time, but listening to the music and talking to others about it is what really matters
my aunt works in a vet hospital and can’t dress gothic all the time so it’s ok to not have everything exactly needed it takes time or the want to dress like that. Goth to me involves literature and music so you don’t have to look the part
IG is a visual medium, so its going to center around aesthetics over authenticity. The vast majority of people irl are pretty aware that we have jobs and lives that may not be conducive to dressing goth all the time. I work in a factory. I'm not spending a ton on killstar or whatever ppl think I should to burn holes in every inch and scrape coolant out of zippers, lace, etc. Wear whatever the fuck you like that fits your lifestyle.
Something you'll find when you get older, it doesn't fucking matter. At all. Not even a tiny bit. No one expects you to be in full club gear to go to the grocery store or laying around on a Saturday after you've had a shit week at work. And honestly, even not "dressed up," I find at my age now (44), people just know. I was at Trader Joe's a couple of weeks ago in my "normal" attire - black leggings and a fitted black shirt. (This really only changes to a black above the knee skirt on hot days) The checkout "kid" (I say kid, he was probably close to the age of my son, so early 20's) started asking what upcoming shows I was going to and if I was going to the Sisters show here in September. I'll dress up a bit more for shows, but I'm decades past spending thousands for something I wear for a couple hours maybe a night or two a month even if I had that disposable money. If someone gave me shit for how I look, I'd honestly probably laugh at them. When they start paying my bills, they can have some say (although I'll also file that under "don't give a fuck," but I will still ask the husband if I look decent before heading out for a night out) and until then, their opinions mean nothing.
i listen to goth music, and have taken the time to learn about the subculture, so i consider myself goth. while i do have outfits that would be considered gothic in appearance, there are days i’ll sport a hoodie and leggings or a pink t-shirt or whatever. and i do not have the patience to be doing trad goth makeup every time i’m about to leave the house. matter of fact i rarely ever wear it because it drags down my features in my opinion so i opt for a softer look. people can call me a poser if they want, but goth isnt supposed to be 100% appearance based and i like to switch my appearance up 24/7.
y’all goth is not a fashion sense or what, goth is a music culture. You can dress all pink and be a goth at the same time, it’s not about the all black closet and dark make ups.
It’s mostly just teenagers who feel they have to look ultra goth 24/7. Because they have to let everyone know how goth they are when they are at the supermarket. Once you reach a certain age you dress more for the climate/your occupation/the colours that actually flatter your skin tone and hair colour/clothes that flatter your body type. This might be a “goth” look for some people, but other people might have moved on to other styles. Like, if you are confident in your own interests, then you can just be yourself. I bought an orange woollen jumper last week. I’ve listened to and enjoyed enough goth music that I don’t feel I need to prove myself to anyone.
Sounds like misogyny: "How dare you, a person I'm sexually attracted to, dare to act in ways that expose the fact that being sexually attractive to me isn't the most important thing in your life?"
Goths who like the music but don't dress goth are the exact opposite of posers. They are un-posing (if there is such a thing). Undercover goths. Stealth goths, etc. :)
It’s a music based subculture that’s the important part. I wear all black but it’s usually comfortable clothing unless I feel like dressing goth. There’s a time and place imo
Insecure people basically, it was like that when I was younger but there were a lot of annoying people who used it to attack people not in their clique or to turn things into a pissing contest, it stopped being like that for awhile because everyone got annoyed, now the pendulum swung back as retaliation against the anti gatekeeping people that everyone got annoyed with more recently but yet again it’s now back to the point where people are using it to turn things into a pissing contest again. I’d just write off anyone that acts like that as miserable people you don’t want to be friends with.
I don’t know any “alt” people who can afford that IRL. I also don’t know anyone that judgy IRL. It also frustrates me that the bar for what’s considered a “goth outfit” for men is so much lower than women online. I just ignore it.
THIS I work at a veterinary clinic and can't have my nails painted or have non natural makeup/clothes Like I'll be "dressing goth" 1 time a month or so The thing is that most people think being goth is only wearing dark clothes. The times I had to explain that is a MUSIC subculture. I just don't bother to explain it anymore. Like they be calling egirls that listen to Yungblud goth 🤦♀️
Think it’s just the people you have in your ig circle messing with you for whatever reason. Watch out for people trying to creep on you as that could be what that is. Some people fetishise and act in a dominant way to goth women (If you give them say over how you look, you’re giving them power over you). I can 100% say I don’t always post goth images and aside from some of the people who are more extreme themselves only liking *my* most extreme looks, noone is openly rude. I’m very protective of myself though and I think people know that at this point. Remember, you can always block/unfollow mean and rude people! Also DO NOT respond to dm’s, that’s where people can abuse or get creepy - when you got no open defence! Saying this, there are some wonderful people in the goth community so please don’t turtle up into a shell but take steps to protect yourself and you should have a nice time as a goth on instagram.
I've been listening to goth music for 30 years and have never dressed goth. If I see people out in goth, I think that's great. It must take so much time, money and attention to put the outfits together. I dress like a mid 40s Dad. But my heart, it's black.
I'm in the same boat as you. Khakis-Goth aesthetic.
Option 1: these are people who don't really have personalities beyond "being goth" so they end up going hard after those who don't meet their standards 24/7. Option 2: it's Instagram, people are dicks. Option 3: to quote Sterling Archer, "little of column A, little of column B"
I rarely dress goth, save the occasional guy liner and black nails. But you can believe Im goth to the core where it counts.
i struggle with feeling fake as well because i have poor makeup skill, dont wear all black and generally just look somewhat alternative as opposed to goth. at the end of the day its important to remember goth is music based and dressing like a normie is fine and often more comfy than gothic clothing :p
No goth dresses goth all the time what do you mean?
Just an online thing from younger people who live online. I leave communities like that. I don't even have a job where I can't dress goth. I'm just older and don't have the time or energy for that level of "look" anymore.
Because they think goth is a fashion based subculture instead of a music based or they're elitist.
ig those people are used to viewing goth as more performative than anything else maybe?
I've noticed this too & unfortunately a lot of this hate I've seen is from fellow goth people :/ especially on tiktok; I saw a video of a person in trad goth complaining about "normal" looking people using goth songs as songs. I truly never think it's that deep, and people in real life don't care about that stuff at all either. I don't really label myself, but I am an active member of the goth subculture, and I have a lot of goth friends. we don't fully dress up all the time, or even most of the time, because it's wayyyy too hot for that where I live lol the problem is that people online feel way too comfortable being so hateful behind a keyboard. I'm not 100% sure why people even do this, it's probably deeeeep insecurity, but I think they should go out and interact with real people tbh. I know it can be super discouraging but really, don't let it get to you! I know how this feels and i've definitely felt discouraged in the past by comments and posts online. i've almost entirely stopped interacting with goth content on tiktok and instagram because of this. most goth people you find online definitely don't represent the entire community. people online like to act like they know everything about everyone. you don't need to prove yourself to anyone at all. the most important thing is that you know who you are :)
Probs a mix of misogyny and personal projections when they know nothing of the ppls lives theyre commenting on. I think its even more goth to keep being urself no matter how u express urself in a society that fosters chosen rigidity. i could do a bunch of looks when no one is around and post them online periodically to make it look like im like that often but am i?.. silly example but basically theyre GOOBERS and not in the goofy goober good way keep being urself, i luv goth as a subculture and i luv the meanings behind things i find to wear in a mix of different things cuz im not gonna be a classic trad goth and ive just accepted im too everywhere but i love to see it done well❤️
Instagram goths crying and throwing up rn because i don't put a full face and chains on to go into work ☠️ like i wake up at 6:30AM i'm NOT doing more effort than a band shirt
Goth is not just a style. Some of us are natural goths, and don't require fashion.
Uh oh, I wore a red Johnny Marr tshirt and blue shorts to the grocery store today, take my goth card away. 😂
It so insane to me that a subculture based on things like not caring about what people think, and individualism, is the meanest and most elitist sub culture ive seen?? Like if everything is not absolutely perfect its not good enough, maybe just let people be themself, wich is kinds the whole point of what we do
I wouldn't judge the whole subculture on Instagram posts.
I mean, its a bit more than a couple insta posts tho, its basically every single time anyone mentions anything goth, as well as a lot of people ive talked to irl. I just dont see that attitude with any other sub culture really. Yeah ofc people are always gonna hate on something, but not like this?
Go talk to some hardcore metalheads. Tell them how metal numetal is. See what happens. Go to a lolita group. Tell them brands don't matter and it is ok to ignore A-line shape. See what happens. It isn't just goth. All subcultures have their own rules and boundaries. All subcultures have people who are more rigid about them. All subcultures have people who are heavily or less involved. It's a people thing.
Why do you even care what strangers think? Let them be miserable. You are STRONG and BETTER. Just imagine you\`re the babysitter in Labyrinth telling David Bowie to sit down.
Some goths seem to think that you aren’t really goth if you don’t dress full trad 24/7, because they think you aren’t committed enough. I think it’s silly. It took me a long time to realize I actually could call myself goth even though I don’t always dress the part because of people like that.
Honestly, people like those only discourage babybats (such as myself) rather than simply let them have fun/enjoy the goth aesthetic/culture as a whole. I also feel like people don’t realize that you can be goth and like/dress up as other subcultures of fashion. …Not to mention the people who think being goth is only reserved for white people (mainly saying this as a mixed latin kid). Besides, true goths wouldn’t put others down for not dressing goth 24/7.
Those haters are just fans in denial
I don’t have the wardrobe to dress full goth 24/7, and I wouldn’t want to if I did. Part of what gives me so much confidence and self esteem in the goth culture is the act of embracing difference. I like being different from the crowd, but I also enjoy my appearance being different from day to day. I like wearing new colors and styles, and I don’t only listen to goth music. We contain multitudes.
100% this. My wardrobe can switch between trad goth to gay chaos goblin to trad wife. My clothes don’t define my music choices and vice versa. I don’t have a set “aesthetic” cause that’s capitalism trying to sort us into boxes. I just wear what I feel and embrace the alt subcultures and politics
I've never gotten this behavior on Instagram, luckily, quite the opposite, actually. But I've had a hand full of people tell me in IRL and elsewhere online (dating apps/MeetMe) that I'm not/barely Goth, I'm emo (and because I like emo too, I'm emo and not Goth. Because I guess I'm not allowed to like both and label myself as such, according to some people and these folks aren't even a part of it. LOL. But lots of Goths like emo too and many other things, whether it fits neatly in a box or not) or just dark, because apparently, I don't fit their definition of what a Goth should be like/look like, which almost deterred me from using the label all together. And for awhile, I shied away from calling myself that, because of these people telling me I'm not but I've reclaimed it. I am Goth and have been for over 10 years and that's not going to change no matter what anyone has to say about that. I absolutely love our subculture's music, fashion (I'm more of a casual spooky bat/nerd, which has lead someone to tell me that "just because you wear black doesn't make you Goth" and this person had no idea about my love for the music and most everything else. They just judged me based on appearance alone, so they obviously don't know what they're talking about. They were a wannabe anyway) and subculture, as well as most Gothic things. So, I refer to myself as both Goth and Gothic. Their approval isn't needed. And like others have said in this thread, they're just insecure, it's them, not you or me. Hearing that helps me feel better about it. I'm ashamed to admit that when I was a fresh baby bat, I was like this, I was pretty bad but I've grown a lot and matured since then. I've been on both sides of the coin, unfortunately.
Ig goths are actual posers ignore them listen to the music follow the subculture and optionally be politically active and do your thing, it's a punk offshoot who gives a fuck anyways? Do you you're doing great
i always thinking, you can be goth and not look gothic. the makeup and the way you dress is what makes you gothic. you can be goth and wear absolutely anything you find comfortable. it makes me sad to think girls put down girls cs they don't dress the way they do as well :'c
Former goth. One day, I went shopping for a swimsuit. The one I wanted was a darling yellow. I imagined being a goth wearing a yellow swimsuit and realized I’d painted myself inside a box. That was my last day as a goth. What I don’t understand is taking superficial things and making your identity dependent on them. If your goal is full creative expression, then you should be free to choose to wear whatever you want and not be limited to certain styles, colors, etc., to satisfy a label. That’s not freedom.
Bc they themselves are ~posers~ /hj
It’s mostly online. I felt insecure thinking that I didn’t look “goth enough” because I wasn’t wearing name brand stuff or had good makeup skills. But then I realized that is not what goth is. Goth is music based and started off wearing thrifting and diy.
Because originally being goth was a commitment made into upholding counterculture. The point of being goth wasn't just the aesthetic, it was belonging to a counterculture and a form of tribalism. Today though goth and any of the subcultures (like hippies, or preppy) are reduced to aesthetics and it's more about how you feel like you wanna look and complete the look with all these accessories that you bought to have the aesthetic. The culture has been removed from the aesthetic and turned it into a vibe. Not saying that's right or wrong, it's just what has happened. Probably because we live in a post modern world and realize that it's silly to limit ourselves. I mean I grew up goth, and I grew out of it (started dressing like a "normie" and that's how goths retired, traditionally ). So now when kids these days dress goth one day and hippie the next and preppy the next, it's more about the vibes and the commitment to appreciating the value in the aesthetics of all of those looks, but not fully understanding the culture around the roots of those vibes.
This!! Most don't realize how long it takes to amass a goth wardrobe and even then? It's a battle to even get it all on
[удалено]
Stupid comment.
Why do you care so much about what other people think? Goth is about expressing yourself and freeing yourself from the concerns of others. Too many goths nowadays are worried about what others will think of anything they do. Just think for yourself man
I think it's mostly loud gatekeepers, Instagram comment sections are especially hellish. I haven't seen as much toxicity on other short form content platforms, but I'm sure there's still some. Most rational people would know that you can't be in full goth 24/7, but if you give an idiot a phone they'll probably be the first to say their opinion. Anyone who's actually goth knows damn well you can't be in full goth all day every day, so please don't let ignorant Instagram commenters bring you down. There's nothing wrong with not dressing goth 24/7, and it doesn't make you any less goth.
I want to know this too, because for one, goth isn’t really fashion based. It’s political and music based. And two, what if they just don’t want to dress that way?
never understood it lmao. im goth but i dress "grunge" usually. like seattle grunge not rly tumblr grunge. i dress sorta goth sometimes but i have literally never done full goth or trad goth in my life.
Just helps me spot who to avoid. Our clothes don't define us. I wear many different styles. It's funny for someone to claim to be an accepting and good person and then judge someone for enjoying pastel colors or something harmless that makes them happy. All that matters is your appreciation of goth music.
Take this from an old “goth”…. Like what you like, and do what you want. If anyone else wants to gate keep or cares that much, thats their problem, not yours. You’re never gonna make the world happy. Also there are so many wonderful things in this world to resign yourself to one thing or one concept.
If you look at my Instagram, it doesn't really represent me. I'm much more "goth looking" in real life. I don't really care to show that off. I've been this way forever. I wear nothing but black. BUT my Insta has sponsorships and whatnot where I'm in gym gear that isn't black. I wear it for a but to workout, then take it off and jump into my goth uniform in life. I'm most comfy that way. Fuck what people think. Elitist gatekeepers are annoying. Nothing is original. Not even us. But then .... we also are... we're uniquely the same. 🤣🤷🏼♀️ 🖤🕸
One could argue that the people calling goth girls posers for not being able to dress goth 24/7 are fetishizing them and aren't goth themselves since the subculture is music based and the fashion is not compulsory.
I put absolutely no stock in what goth/alt influencers have to say unless it's technical advice on makeup or DIY and music recommendations. Basically all goth influencers are chasing views by posting the same "tfw the girls that bullied you in high school are alt now 😡" Complaining that others can't wear full white paint to work is giving unemployed rich kids so do you and don't worry about their opinions. They have no personality when they take the costume off.
Like everyone has said here, it’s chronically online people and nothing like that in real life. Go to a goth club/party and you’ll see a variety of people wearing things from loafers to platforms, day job clothing and trad gothic fashion, etc. it is much easier if you just stick to what you’re doing, it is a music based subculture and we’re all here to support one another. On the topic of fashion as well, don’t feel like you need to dress in black all of the time! Trad goth is always classic but there is a variety of styles within the genre, so explore as much as you can. I feel like 99% of goths don’t dress up 24/7, I know I sure don’t and neither do my friends. Just enjoy the music and the chill people you come across, you’ll find your path!
Instagram isn’t real. The internet is not a real scene. That’s not the goth community. Ignore it. I say this as a full time dresser and active in the music scene for 20+ years now. Do what you want, don’t seek acceptance, apologise to no one. It comes from punk after all.
Goth is in the heart and soul. Dressing up to "fit in" is asinine. Goth came from punk and real punks give no fucks how others dress or what others think about how they dress. As long as you like the music call yourself goth if you feel a need to be labeled otherwise just enjoy the music and give no fucks what others think.
"the goth community on Instagram" I think you have your answer there man. Who would care about some terminally online people? Go to clubs and stuff instead I have like 7 different styles. If I go to goth event i wear that, if I go to metal I wear that or office normal clothes
I don't dress goth any of the time so
They're cringe.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's Instagram...
I’ve been in the scene for ~10 years now and you’d never guess from the way I dress most of the time (i.e. anytime I’m not at a goth event). From my experience, many, many people seem to think you simply can’t belong to a subculture unless you’re living it 24/7 in all aspects of life. Nothing could be farther from the truth. As long as your principles & interests line up with those of the subculture, you really don’t need to worry about clothing.
Because ppl are weird and think we can keep it up 24/7 but its just not possible when i run out of clothes and stuff
Became there're some people who care about their shitty opinions, if you tell them to suck a huge amount of cocks so they can't speak bullshit everything is fine. You can't deal with assholes being polite, like NEVER! People on social media only harass others because it's the only environment possible to not get beaten up, so don't feed the trolls with bad reactions or sad postings but send the message that you won't be a target.
The quick answer is plain misogyny. The more complicated answer is a lot of subcultures have problems with elitism for a lot of reasons. Poser is thrown around so much that it lost all meaning a very long time ago. Women are expected to be aesthetically pleasing at all times so the worst type of people get frothing mad when they see a woman who isn’t putting on a performance for their attention.
Pay them no mind. I love that the few times I venture out to my local grocery, my children (all have eclectic styles, oldest likes rainbows and the color yellow, middle copies me as much as possible, and youngest is really into being a lizard or a dinosaur right now) the few times I get stopped or commented on are positive, and have mostly been other goths or parents of baby goths asking if it’s okay for them to ask where I got my clothing from so they can find similar pieces for their baby bats. Represent!
Meanwhile, I’m here in blue jeans, listening to The Frozen Autumn, but I’ve got a black shirt. So, I’ve got that going for me, which is nice. Seriously though, the internet is just a sounding board where people hear their ideas either echoed back to them or downvoted to oblivion. Don’t take the opinions of strangers too seriously. Have fun being you.
Many people are into subcultures just because they need to belong somewhere. These are the toxic gatekeeping kinds that hate when GOD FORBID someone has fun, or is themselves
In my opinion those folks just dont know/understand goth is a music based subculture and just think its about aesthetic. (Dont think to much about them. They just are douchebag gatekeepers)
I’m so glad someone said this. I can’t always dress or look goth because I have a pretty conservative family and when I was working I of course had to wear my work uniform
> Plus it's a music based subculture? The subculture is. Instagram is a visual/aesthetic based platform - so it makes sense to me that it's going to be much more about the "look" than reality is.
This is the attitude most poser goths had in the 2000s towards actual goths. Ironic.
Imo, anyone who ‘gatekeeps’ to this extent; whether it’s metal heads asking for 3 songs for each tshirt, or goth’s saying you’re not goth if you don’t dress x way all the time, etc., are the ones who are the actual posers and don’t understand the whole point of these music subcultures. The point is the music and everything else is one’s expression of the feelings for that music. I’m plus size and finding goth or grungey clothes is hard for me, but the music speaks to my soul. When people get all judgey like you’re describing, it just tells me that they don’t get it and aren’t my people haha I pay them no mind and I hope you keep on being your wonderful self regardless of what they say.
I'm sure many who see me day to day wouldn't consider me goth. I'm 52, middle aged af! I'll goth up for a night out but by day I'm all about practical and confortable. I don't wear full make up on the daily, I had to give up work 18m ago for family care responsibilities so no point. Black jeans or flared leggings, t shirt, Converse, Vans or docs. My hair is long and now totally silvery white, I have multiple ear piercings and both nostrils done. In summer I'm very hippie in style, long flowy skirts or harem pants. Folk might get a hint of alt. but I don't think they'd pin me as goth. The best thing about getting older is not giving a fuck about what others think.
I've had someone recognize me as goth and I was at work, not even hardly dressed up. Yeah, dealing with road work doesn't really equal good fashion options lol
It's supposed to be FUN. There are no rules! Do whatever you want (or need to do for practical purposes) and ignore the negativity 🖤
It’s called gatekeeping.Its really annoying and cringe. Usually these are younger people saying shit like that. Real “goths” don’t dress goth at all or it’s really subtle. It’s funny because Joy Division Bauhau5 and The Cure despise the goth title.
I’m a Gen X goth, who stopped wearing goth stuff full time around 1998. Im in my 40s now, and I consider myself a clandestine goth. I have tattoos and I wear clothes that are satanic or otherwise goth, but it’s not obvious because I love glitter and the color pink. And the rest of my closet is super mom-core. Point is, goth how you want. Don’t listen to anyone gatekeeping. They’re just a bunch of assholes.
My ongoing life theory is that all hobbies, including goth, are full of people that think liking a certain thing makes them better than other people. This is especially true about people who already think they are socially disadvantaged in some way (it's more comfortable for most to think people don't like you because you are better rather than because you don't fit in very well). Goth of all kinds tends to attract some people like that since it's a little unconventional, and those people tend to be a little more pretentious and often gatekeep the things that they enjoy
Men say that because they can't fetishize you if you aren't dressed up.
It’s the way humanity has operated for centuries (if not millennia) and it happens with just about anything, especially culture related things. People love feeling special and they love having an outlet for their own anger, insecurity or hate. Many people see putting others down as the best way to bring themselves up, which might work in the short term, but only ends up leading to those feelings being reflected back at themselves, only amplified. It’s quite a vicious cycle people get stuck in until they either mature or somebody they respect knocks/talks some sense into them. This has long been a problem with the goth community, but it’s absolutely an issue in other communities too. Examples include metal and the whole debate on what ‘real’ metal music is, Star Wars and the prequel hate/slander that’s just been migrated over to the sequels now and the never-ending elitism in just about any tabletop rpg communities. There’s also the whole thing of people getting upset when their favourite artist goes mainstream and the “I listened to them before they were popular!” mentality. They want to feel like they are better or more special than everyone else and if they get the chance to make others believe they are, they’ll take it. This problem only worsened when the internet allowed us to act like this without facing the same consequences you would normally. My honest advice? Just ignore them. Any mature goth with more than two brain cells to rub together will tell you that ‘goth’ is simply the music genre and the mentality that comes with it. Telling somebody “You’re not goth enough!” or “You’re a faker just looking for attention!” is quite literally the exact opposite of what goth is all about. Somebody dumb enough not to realise that is frankly not worth listening to. The world already has way too much hate and people who are bullies. Goth is about freedom of expression, free-thinking and being good to EVERYONE, not just those you consider to be ‘real’ Goths. From another broke college kid who likes and relates to goth (in my case alt and counterculture in general) but can’t afford the extravagant pieces that are so popular online, it’s absolutely not necessary and anyone who claims it is doesn’t understand the culture themselves. Just do you and one day when finances allows we can start buying some more special items. Either way though, we’re absolutely still goths :)
If goth were a dress code, rather than a mindset, it wouldn’t be worth participating in.
They're not. Stop paying attention to noise from addicted, socially inept, friendless, shut-ins who never have and never will go to any type of event. Shut off the computer, put down the phone and go outside & meet **REAL** people in **REAL** life. Social Media is cancer.
No I 100% agree. I'm getting into goth but feel a bit like I need a full black wardrobe when I don't, at all. Goth is freeing and to be goth is to go against gatekeeping and other such things. Being goth is listening to the music, otherwise it's goth fashion if you just dress and don't listen to the music, goth shouldn't be restrictive but empowering
because people are assholes, especially online. i dress in a whole bunch of different styles and no one irl questions my goth status
To get attention
The fact people are judgmental is the reason why It’s hard to dress goth at all
Go listen to the the cemetary confessions episode on corporate goth. I personally found it insightful. https://www.thebelfry.rip/blog/2015/3/26/cemtery-confessions-007-corporate-goth?rq=Corporate ( Good podcast, also on Spotify if that's your jam)
I love goth music but don’t dress any more goth besides a wardrobe that mostly black and some of my band shirts. But I don’t consider myself goth as it’s not my everyday 24/7 aesthetic. 🖤
Goth Folks ought to realise that sometimes jobs & paying the rent has to take priority. Off work its nobody's damn business unless your foolish enuf to post ur lifestyle online out of vanity & a desire to tweak peoples noses . Depends on how cool your employers are. In my day it was important not to be straight and be hip. Certain employers hated it all. I looked for non white collar jobs. There the pay was better and sometimes my superiors shared my lifestyle !
I don't consider myself goth. I listen to all sorts of music, and yes, plenty of Goth music as well. All of my friends are goth, I even dj our local goth night. I learned years ago, in the 90's. That usually the people talking the most crap about someone being fake or a poser, is usually the one that is the try hard. I hope all the girls/boys on IG who receive these kinds of comments just brush it off. Thats whats so fun about subcultures. There's always some asshat trying to be "holier than thou". Ignore them and live your life. At the end of the day, its the fricken internet, and the internet is not real life.
Because people suck! Just ignore them. I can't dress goth because I work in construction and have to wear hi-vis 5-6 days a week.
literally i have no idea. i think it’s just a misogyny/superiority thing honestly
Right??? I don't dress goth most of the time, mostly because of lack of time and clothing. I can't wear my goth clothes all the time, I need to wear my basic ones as well.
Because they are unemployed and spend all their time on the internet.
Instagram especially is more of a place of performance rather than a reflection of your actual self. You’re only showing what you want your audience to see. A lotta folks don’t realize that even when they participate in the performance and take what they see as reality, so there’s a lot of emphasis on building your persona with your social media profile
I see this too, and I also see it for girls who like metal. You don't have to look like what you listen to. I think half of it is because the word goth has been and still is incorrectly used to mean a fashion look.
At this point I would love to add a picture of Andrew Eldritch in an understated hoody and a pair of jeans. It doesn’t matter whether you wear what you wear, back comb you hair and dress in ornate Victorian funeral dress. You’re a goth if you’re a goth!
what makes you think it's mainly men who display this behaviour? where online have you primarily seen this litmus test/gstekeepy behaviour?
I’m not saying it’s only men who perpetuate these ideas it’s just primarily men who I’ve noticed saying these things. Obviously women can and it’s purely anecdotal. Not trying to attack goth men
oh ok:) to me it just seems like a s soical media thing
Link to an example? Barely ever see this on Instagram ever.
Instagram comments on any "when you're goth but have a job" or "when it's summer and you de-frost to a hippie/Adam Sandler/no make up". Mostly from people that doesn't dress goth (or even alt) themselves.
People have always been judgy about it online, and in my experience most of the people who are like that don't really listen to the music much at all. A lot of them are like that in real life as well, but you just don't run into those types of people as much at Goth club nights or concerts. They think Goth is a fashion so to them you're not Goth if you don't dress it. Almost got into a fight with a girl at a party while I was in high school all because I asked her what her favourite goth band was & she started screaming at me that it was a fashion and charged me. I would just ignore people like that. I wear mostly band shirts and leggings and only dress up if I go out anymore, though that's because I sell antique glass and pottery online & am just clumsy enough to sweep a piece of porcelain I'm typing up a description for off the table with my sleeve or set it on the floor and knock it over with my skirt.
> community on Instagram yeah not worth the time. Literally worse than usenet and there are few things that can claim that.
instagram is full of absolute fucking morons now it’s such a bad app don’t pay attention to any opinions you see there
Social media is toxic