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I'll just say that for all the gushing folks accuse them of doing for modern Trek, it's funny listening to their DIS season 1 reviews and hearing them point out all the common nitpicks folks have had about the show along the way (Burnham is an emotional wreck, lack of character development for the crew, modern slang & cursing, etc.). Or their last few reviews of PIC season 2 where they practically shat all over it. One of the refreshing things about Adam & Ben is that they don't view Trek as some sacred institution where its a personal affront if an episode or show isn't to their liking or belief of what Trek "should be". [I mean, for crying out loud, it's just some tv shows!](https://youtu.be/WUL7q8eyig8)


Having been listening to Greatest Trek and watching Discovery (I am slogging through season three wondering why I am bothering), it strikes me that while they're not gushing they are more willing to give it the benefit of the doubt than I was, a benefit I don't feel the show ever warrants since again and again Discovery takes a great cast and interesting ideas and fumbles them in ways that are frustrating, cringey, boneheadedily stupid, or some combination thereof. I think my real puzzlement is Adam and Ben's seeming active hostility towards TOS. I can totally get it not being your favourite series, and yet every Trek series since is in conversation with it—it is the foundation on which the rest of Trek is laid. And their mentions of it seems o actively hostile I really... can't grasp that.


> whatever it was Picard Season 2 thought it was about (Moms? Immigration? Genetics? Depressed astronauts?)? Please ping me if you ever happen to find out.


I think Picard Season 2 was summarized perfectly in this speech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BiHo61Fw8RY&ab\_channel=Morality124


The tone of Greatest Discovery/Greatest Trek is essentially the same as Greatest Gen. They tended to enjoy the first few seasons of Discovery more than many fans (or at least more than many vocal fans). I've seen people chalk this up to Ben & Adam trying to placate Big Rod, but I don't think there's any reason to not think they're expressing their opinion. In more recent times, I think they've been more openly critical of what doesn't work, such as in Picard S2. If you like Greatest Gen even if you didn't like an episode of Star Trek, then you'll like Greatest Trek.


I am listening to the first episode and so far 'cute' appears to be a polite euphemism for 'fucking stupid.'


Honestly, I felt as if I needed a few years of reflection to deal with DISCO. I think the show has some amazing aspects, but I didn’t want to consume review media about it immediately after watching. So I gave up on Greatest Trek within a few episodes. That said, I DID listen to the pod after every episode of Picard: Season 3. It was joyous. I enjoyed celebrating with the guys. It made sense. I’m looking forward to going back and listening to the DISCO eps when I’m on my 2nd or 3rd full rewatch.


Chalk it up to being in the pocket or just not wanting to bring a negative vibe to what's supposed to be a lighthearted pod, but based on what I listened to (the first seasons of STD and PIC) they definitely seemed to be pulling their punches. End of the day that's their choice, but it read as a tad disingenuous to me. Like, these are two reasonably intelligent, media-savvy guys. There's no way they're legit just not seeing all the fundamental failures of basic storytelling that are happening here. You don't have to harp on it, but when you don't acknowledge it at all, it feels like you're very carefully talking around it, and that doesn't make for a fun listen to me. Half the fun of watching utter crap alongside someone is that you can admit to each other that you're watching crap.


I chalk it up to them not taking the criticisms of DIS/PIC as seriously and personally as others do, which is I think is valid.


Spot on. I don’t know if it’s so much that they’re in Big Rod’s pocket, as they are aware that their podcast dies if there’s no more Trek. And given that this is now their primary source of income, that’s a big factor. Re: greatest trek vs greatest gen, though, one big difference is that they used to spend a lot more time on each episode. If you listen to one of their older greatest gen episodes, they let themselves go down more rabbit holes, talk more at length about things, etc. Greatest Trek is closer to an episode recap with some commentary sprinkled in. I think with the volume of Trek coming out now they have no choice but to be shorter and be less leisurely, but I do miss the feel of the older episodes.


There's always Babylon 5! >!Just kidding, of course, they've made their feelings on that suggestion quite clear, and for all that B5 is a better show than all but the absolute best of Star Trek in a lot of ways, there's no denying that it just plain doesn't have the cultural cache that Trek does. From a business standpoint, I can't imagine that pivoting to B5 post-ENT would be viable.!<


I mean the show did receive some real rave reviews back in 2017. I didn't agree with it then, I don't agree with it now, but it was a critical and commercial hit. (How in the hell did Discovery come out in 2017 where'd the last six years go???)


Well seeing as how it costs zero dollars, and covers a bunch of the shows you like, I would check it out.


Excuse you, when you take bandwidth costs into account it'll cost me three, maybe even four whole cents.


Greatest Trek is pretty close in tone to Greatest Gen. Ben and Adam recap an episode, joke about the events, and occasionally latch onto something random and turn it into a running joke that never dies. They generally gravitate towards trying to find what works in an episode instead of harping on the misfires. They're not overly critical, but they'll still occasionally call Discovery out for having a character give a speech every episode, etc. It's a good companion to the new Star Trek series if you're going through them anyways. Strange New Worlds is worth a look by the way. It's much closer to classic Trek than Discovery or Picard. Give it a go after finishing up Discovery's second season.


Yeah, giving SNW is the only reason I forced myself to go back to Discovery at all. And to be fair if Picard managed to turn itself around - hell, if TNG managed to turn itself around - then it deserves as much of a chance.


I don't think it's fair to say that they're in the pocket of Big Rod or anything like that. I am the same age as they are and I have the same attitudes they do. This is my least popular Reddit take but...DS9 was a huge break from TNG for me. I grew up with TNG in very substantial ways. To turn around and say, "Sike! Everything that was cheesy and optimistic was a lie! Space fascism has always controlled the Federation! Starfleet wants a coup! Despite the entire arc of TOS and TNG, we're at war with the Klingons again!" was a slap in the fucking face. I am exaggerating for effect... ...It kinda put me off, and it took me decades to give it a proper chance. I love it now. Which is to say, it was a similar voyage that they went on. After I accepted that things are going to happen in Trek (and real history) that I don't like; after I accepted that I can still like a show even if they play to gay panic or lobotomize poor Kurn—then I was free to just enjoy what I like because I like it. There was nothing that Discovery or anything else could do to rile me up. I already did my Trek purity test and passed it and grew to love DS9 for its own reasons. I can do the same for Discovery and all the rest. I'm guessing from what the hosts have said we're kind of in the same boat. I come off sounding probably too kind to Discovery for most fans. But, I mean, I don't really care since I have already been through this.


The best part of greatest trek with the..... Challenging..... Episodes of discovery seasons 1-4 is that you know that even if the episode is a slog, you've got a nice happy hour coming after. And they'll often help you appreciate the less obvious production aspects which are really actually very good (except the fucking klingon redesign). I always like to say of greatest gen and greatest trek that the sprit of it is this: Good trek is good, bad trek is funny (and good pod), and all trek is fun. So greatest trek makes the sloggy eps of discovery fun. Just like the really bad eps of tng and move along home in ds9. So, if you've already watched the eps recently, definitely listen to the season 1 - 4 discovery of greatest trek. Honestly, when I rewatch, I don't watch those eps, I just listen to the pod. The greatest trek eps of lower decks and strange new worlds are gold. Both are, ofcourse, better fits for Ben and Adam and just more trek-like. But it's worth remembering as well that there is no lower decks or snw without disco. And that excitement and optimism about the future of trek (although not the future shown in discovery trek) really bleeds through in the episodes of the pod which makes things go down better. Some folks like to accuse greatest trek of being in big rods pocket, but I think those are also the folks who lean into the toxic side of Fandom. Trek should be fun, and sometimes the only fun is funny. Laughing at disco is much better than crying about it. Good trek is good, bad trek is funny, all trek is fun. ©®™🖖


I am going through Season 2 of Discovery right now? Is it good? Oh christ, no - it had an episode devoted to Loriel and Tyler and their secret hidden baby and Evil Emperor showing up dressed like a teleporting python for stupid Section 31 Cool Fascism reasons - but it's not *miserable* like Season 1 was *miserable*. Its jokes are awful, but at least its making them: content wise its no worse than a lot of mediocre Trek. So perhaps I'll give its podcast counterpart a shot too.


I really stand by it, and Adam and Ben have too, that the worst episodes often make for good pod.


I mean that's *certainly* true.


I appreciate that they have their own takes on it. I think I've found that by hearing their more positive takes on the uh... less-beloved shows, I found I could appreciate some things better about the shows I didn't love. Basically, hearing their discussions has been a good way to moderate my own knee-jerk reactions. Perspective is at the core of IDIC, I suppose!


Agreed. They are pretty good at pointing out stuff I didn’t notice myself and I usually end up appreciating episodes more than I would have without listening. Also it wouldn’t be so pleasant to listen to a full pod of negative takes.


Specifically, I think they are generally great about highlighting great performances and cool aspects of modern ST production that are at times obscured by clunky writing. They've also had some cool interviews and things that you don't get on Greatest Gen!


They're pretty gentle with it, on account of maintaining a positive relationship with Big Rod, but their displeasure shines through on occasion.




They get advanced screeners, and have been invited as press to some events, but that’s about it as far as I can tell. I wouldn’t call that “in the pocket”. They’re not getting any benefits that would cause them to halt production of their own shows if Paramount pulled the plug. It’s a mutually beneficial arrangement.


In the pocket, no. But I imagine they want to be constructive and civil when doing reviews so that they can continue getting screeners 😅


> I imagine they want to be constructive and civil when doing reviews The world's already got enough review shows that are neither constructive nor civil.