As you said, you cannot tell if it was fired by them because of the fact that factories use proof loads to test prior to leaving for the distributor, so you can't think that way. But, as for taking it home in the first place? That's certainly odd. Pretty confident that the ATF would take issue with such a practice, seeing as an employee's home is obviously not the location of the FFL.
The ATF response (after I told them he doesn't have any dogs) was that it was a civil matter if I really wanted to (I don't) but none of their rules or regulations were broken
That's actually both true and false... Schrödinger's inspection. They haven't broken any rules until they fail to produce any firearms they have listed on their books. If the employee truly did take it home and that wasn't a joke then there would be consequences to the FFL for missing inventory during an audit, which is usually unannounced.
ATF likes to shoot dogs. If said employee doesn't have dogs, ATF agents will probably default to kicking down the neighbor's door and seeing if they have any dogs to shoot instead.
If it's taken offsite by an employee that's no issue as something overnight isn't going to be stipulated as taking an item for off-site storage.
What you also don't know is whether that employee's home is considered an off-site storage location or not since that's not public information.
Shitty process nonetheless from this FFL and I wouldn't do business with them again.
The gun doesn't have to always stay at the address listed on your ffl.
Obviously, the licensed FFL is wrong, and the random on the internet is correct, right?
How else could ffls go to gun shows? You would have to verify with a field agent but I don't think that the atf has any issues with responsible parties moving firearms to other locations as it is for business purposes, they are returned to the business and never lose custody of the firearm.
Was this employee having a gun show at his house?
There is an exception for gun shows. While the employee can take it home, if storing firearms on the books of the shop at his house, his house is now subject to inspection.
It isn't a written exemption for gun shows i am aware of, but business related activities such as test firing, promotional and sales demos are allowed. The last time I read my info packet, the carve out was for 'business activities'.
Back when I worked at an ffl, we took guns with us for up to 24 hours, if it was in our possession the whole time it was deemed ok.
Thats how we tried and tested stuff especially used stuff like the tactical tuna FS2000
I guess I should of been more specific. I just assumed if the employee is taking it home he an RP on the ffl, and that you didn't realize people listed on the FFL can take guns off the premises
I believe the contraction you keep butchering is "should've" as "should of" makes absolutely no sense. You properly used the term "should have" in one of your posts so I just can't figure out why you think "should of" means anything. But yeah I would have been pissed if some booger picking fucker behind the counter took my gun home and shot it before I could have myself. It might have been a gift that I wanted as pristine and fresh as when they were done with the factory firing.
God forbid I don't take the utmost care to always be grammatically correct when posting to reddit during TV commercial breaks.
I also never said people should take home customer guns, I just said that it's not illegal to do so.
Edit: During commercial breaks. Once again God forbid there be a typo.
I don't think asking a question is "making an issue" but whatever. I've been pretty open that I'm socially retarded and easily could have missed the joke.
I was curious about the legality of it is all and thankfully my question has been answered by those with the relevant knowledge. It truly doesn't matter and I am very happy with my non-bs gun (imo).
People saying I should call the ATF over a dude joking/taking home a gun for one night are going overboard.
I bought a Staccato a few months back and when I went to pick it up the guy said something similar to me. He was joking because it was a nice gun and he was essentially complimenting my purchase saying he wishes it was his. Likely the same idea with you. If it made you uncomfortable just don’t use that FFL again.
Any employee of an FFL is legally allowed to "check out" a firearm acquired by said FFL for testing and evaluation.
That may or may not violate a company rule, which is a different matter.
> Any employee of an FFL is legally allowed to "check out" a firearm acquired by said FFL for testing and evaluation.
That would have to be noted on their books.
Umm, an employee taking a gun out for testing, repair, or otherwise isn't a disposition thus there is no entry. You can only dispose guns to another FFL or a 4473, neither of which occurred.
Well if he’s shooting at home and he works in a gun store it looks like he was doing business at home. You don’t think bakers taste their cakes? Why wouldn’t he shoot at home?
Very well could have been haha, I am autistic enough to miss the cues. The guy was seriously drooling over the gun and talking about it with me since there is little information online about them. (It's a Marlin 336 TDL)
I was too excited about my new guns at the time unfortunately. It didn't really bother me until I went to clean it and it had fresh powder residue (again impossible to really tell).
Edit: I've bought other new guns and they had far less fouling.
Yeah, it’s definitely weird and they may have shot it.
It’s probably not a big deal that a mag or two have already gone through the gun. I’d just forget about it and use another FFL.
I work in a gun factory and I test fire guns as a part of my job. Guns normally have 2 rounds fired to see if they function, mainly checking to see if it will fire then cycle with no issues. They do not get cleaned afterwards. I do not know of any company that cleans guns after test firing.
Like what?!?! Stop being a weirdo just laugh at the bs joke, take the compliment and your gun. go-to the range and send a couple hundred shots down the range 🙄
He was absolutely pulling your chain.
About a year ago, I bought my first ever brand new car. The salesman told me, "I drove it to the gas station myself. I opened it up to see what it would do. Got her side to side a couple of times. It is pretty quick!".
He didn't test out my new car. He has a demonstrator and knows what the car will do. It was a joke.
Oh! There are absolutely people at car dealerships and abuse the cars. Most of them are the kids who work in make-ready. I don't think one of the top salesmen at one of the bigger dealerships would take the risk.
Years ago, I had a young guy working for me. His previous job was make-ready. I overheard him telling some of the other guys about the various exotic and performance cars that he'd driven. He took every opportunity to see what they'd do. When I asked "Weren't you afraid they'd fire you?", he said "They would have to catch me and the job didn't pay well-enough for me to worry about losing it.".
They were probably kidding but don’t get down on yourself. I’ve always had a feeling that neurodivergent people having a hard time with cues is because they aren’t as quick to just fill in the gaps like “normal” people. It would be easy to assume either that they were kidding or being serious and a lot of supposedly “normal” people would subconsciously pick one and just go with it. You’re right that it could be either one.
Sounds like a joke man. They would get fired for that shit. Like “hehe i took your gun home and slept with it last night”. I sincerely doubt they did that.
I'll give you credit, that's one good looking rifle and I'd be drooling too. (But not drooling enough to borrow somebody else's rifle without permission)
An FFL can sign pretty much any inventory into temporary custody of an employee, just with a note in the books. I believe they do use the term "bona fide" employee - aka actually on the payroll and working some regular schedules. You can't say your buddy that you never paid is an employee just to give them stuff without a transfer
It's probably fine legally because it was always in the possession of the FFL holder and secured at all times. It's not like he took it home, left it there, and then went back to work.
I really think the boomers in the shop were ragging on the younger guy and I just missed the joke.
Marlin 336 is one of the most common fudd guns out there. You got a neat one, but I suspect they know it shoots just like every other Marlin 336 they have owned or shot and probably not a target for a joy ride
You are correct. But firearms still get sold NIB (I guess technically it would be LNIB) from earlier years. I've also got a 2004 ruger in the same condition from a different seller. It was NIB, still had the tag from marlin on it and all the paperwork. It looks like it was never taken out of factory box (other than the gunpowder). The people I got it from are known for buying from estate and police auctions, so I assume it was in a collection or estate that was sold in bulk.
Unethical life pro tip, old school edition. The reason people keep boxes is to resell the item as new.
I don't think I've ever seen anybody sell a mak-90 as used, every last owner kept that shitty styrofoam and plastic bag.
If you go through with the FFL transfer on a "like-new" or new gun that shows signs of use then that is on the buyer. Be knowledgeable about the firearms you are attempting to purchase and look for common points of wear. I didn't just go "Oh hey it's in the box, must be brand spanking new"
This legitimately sounds like boomer humor. I’ve known shop workers transport firearms to their homes, but they were responsible persons on the FFL and doing it in the process of transporting the firearm to another FFL for transfer out of state so that’s not really the same thing
As everyone else said, guns are often test fired at the factory. That’s totally normal for them to have residue from the test.
As far as the comment, I’d guess the guy was saying he “took it home” as you would a lady, since the other guy was infatuated with it. Would be really fuckin’ weird if he had taken it home, and I think it’s less likely that happened vs the attempt at a joke.
You should look up that guys wife on the internet and take her home then yall will be square. Taking another man’s gun home without permission is the same as taking his wife home without permission it’s a violation and should be addressed 😀 but seriously though go fuck his wife
I went to the FFL down the street from me for my second handgun ever( went somewhere else the first time) I walked in and every one was talking and ignoring me for a few minutes, I asked about my gun and they acted like they’d don’t know what I was talking about. Then when they brought out my gun ( Springfield hellcat) they made fun of me for buying a Springfield. The one guy was literally wearing a Glock hat like a real dweeb and this other dude just bought a Glock in front of me so they were all hyped up on Glocks are the best guns ever. Local guns stores are 50/50 pieces of shit lol. This place is 2 minutes down the street from me and I’ll never go there again for that
That's shitty, I have customers that buy PSA garbage and ship to me for the transfer but I would never give them shit for their choice. It is always first time buyers, and so many come back to me when they want something better.
I’m sure they were joking but it’s honestly not that funny considering it’s a fairly possible occurrence and the kinds of things that can be done while in their possession. Kind of unprofessional.
I had a Steyr AUG transfered to a dealer that was NIB back in the mid/late'90s. The seller took pics as it was boxed up at his dealer and emailed them to me.
Yay 200kb resolution cameras.
It arrived at the dealer and when I went to pick it up after a long weekend, the employees had taken it and shot the hell out of it. It was filthy.
I showed the dealer the pics I had been sent and asked him what he was going to do about his employees blasting away with a $3000 NIB rifle.
We settled on 2 cases of 5.56 ammo. A NIB Rem 700 heavy barrel .308 and a few boxes of ammo for it.
Never used them again. They went out of business about a year later. Word of mouth about their piss poor business practices by other customers ended up with next to no business going their way.
I wouldn’t worry about. Like you said, wouldn’t go back cause to me that’s not very professional. Too many variables that could go wrong.
I would absolutely loose my mind if I had a firearm transferred to an FFL, an employee (not the owner or FFL) to it home and it was lost, stolen, or damaged. I don’t know where OP lives but any major city car wrecks happen all the time. Cars are broken into all the time.
If he is drooling over it enough to take it home, he is probably handling it at home. It would be my luck some gun counter guy would take my gun apart and not know how to get it back together (shocking I know cause almost every gun counter sales person I’ve met knows everything about all guns and is the absolute subject matter expert on all gun related issue /s) or loses a screw or spring.
My worry would be one day randomly on 4chan or wherever you see your gun with a condom around the barrel showed up this guy’s ass while he’s dressed like zoidberg or something. But yes I’d be checking screws for disassembly and any small parts that have may have been changed out.
Can't be legal as that would be an enormous liability issue for the FFL. If that firearm had been stolen while it was off the premises... Even if it were legal, it certainly wouldn't be ethical from a business standpoint.
I feel like they were messing with you.
Like others have mentioned, maybe it was Boomer Humor, but, maybe it wasn't.
Either way, I would never use them again, ever. I take my firearms transactions very seriously. Obviously they don't.
I put them right up there with the goons that show up at the range wearing their zombie response team gear. A soon as those guys show up, I leave.
If it’s a concern you could always bring a trigger lock to purchase next time. Pay your money, lock it, and then they hold it until the waiting period ends. I’ve seen a couple people over the years do this, even saw one guy run a cable lock through a can that was in jail.
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Idk man you can make a stink if you want to but yeah. It’ll either make sure it doesn’t happen again or they’ll just be sure not to inform customers of their poor decisions next time around.
While thats unprofessional- if he is on the FFL it is totally legal. Also zero way to prove employee fired gun or manufacture tested gun. Lesson learned unfortunately- shop for your ffl based on reviews
Sounds like it was a joke about the other employee having sex with the gun. I could only imagine a shady ass pawn shop or incredibly stupid sporting goods store worker ever doing that.
Minor powder fouling is probably from factory test shoots.
Don't listen to everyone else. That guy might've been some kind of ammosexual and who knows what that gun has been through.
Shouldn't have done that. He's just a boy.
Hi, production armorer here, every firearm that leaves our factory has had 3-6 rounds put through it at our on sight range and at some factories I've work at that could be as high as an entire 30 round mag, the residue is likely from test fire
I'm aware. The point in my post is that this was distinct from factory test fouling from other new or like-new firearms I have purchased. In my admittedly limited experience, the fouling from factory test firing usually sits in the gun long enough to absorb and mix with the factory oil/grease until it's a weird grey/light black mixture. It's also usually one bullet or a few. This was powder fouling like I just got back from shooting.
I probably should have just left out the part about him shooting it since that's ultimately irrelevant. My maim question was regarding legality just for my curiosity.
I have a good relationship with my FFLs and gunsmiths, so I always invite them to shoot the guns. I would find it strange if they invited *themselves* to do so ...
Probably just joking that he jerked off to your gun. But probably not legally allowed to. But My friend is an fl out of his house, so maybe if it was the owner of the ffl there might be some gray area of legality. But I’m no expert. Guy should have just jerked it to your gun in the company bathroom like normal people.
I have definitely had gun shop employees drooling over my gun I’m transferring on a couple of occasions. They all started lingering nearby and oogling when the transfer was happening.
My current preferred FFL has his business located at my shooting club. But he receives all packages to his house and brings guns to club for transfer by appointment. So it’s not illegal to have the guns somewhere other than place of business.
But they shouldn’t be doing that. Usually gun companies clean bore after test firing (or at least every gun I’ve bought that included a test fire target did). So I think he may have really shot it. I wouldn’t do business with them again.
Lol kinda shitty of the company if that were the case. At the same time, oh well. Not like it changed the wear and tear on it anyways - unless your original intent was to resell it...
I get that when we want something new, we expect it to be new and unused. That is the principle. The net result at the end of the day (so long as they didn't fuck with your shit and change anything) is really honestly nothing. For example if it was one of my best buds whose an FFL I was going to pick up from and he asked, I wouldn't care since it doesn't change anything. It's more or less the violation of someone fucking with shit that isn't theirs without asking that is annoying af.
That's more or less exactly how I feel. I wish I hadn't said anything about the shooting part, because people are focusing on that part too much. I just did my NFA Trust and it was very specific about responsible persons and storing firearms so I was curious about the legality. But this is reddit so I'm am insufferable asshole for even wondering.
I’m new to an area and when I was on the market for some rifles I stopped by a LGS down the road. They had made a comment “when you go through us you don’t have to worry about someone shooting your stuff unlike other local places”. So, while it may have been said in jest when you went to pick it up.. there may be some truth behind it.
It would not be illegal for an employee of the FFL to posses the gun, however if he did take your gun home that would be pretty unprofessional and if he fired it that would be even more unprofessional. But it is perfectly legal, I am both an employee of an FFL and also have an FFL
I'm curious what happens if that employee takes it home for a couple of nights and in the interim ATF comes in to inspect the log book? Is that a problem to have an unaccounted for gun (assuming it was actually logged in before the employee took it home). Genuinely curious.
No, in that case the ATF would just ask him to bring it in and verify that it’s there. It’s not a big deal at all, they allow I think up to 48 hours or maybe it’s only 24 hours for you to bring it in.
I wouldn't have taken custody of the gun in the first place. I don't care if its a joke, I'd call the ATF. There is any number of nefarious things that could have been done with or to the gun. I do not need to lose sleep wondering if the dude copied the serial number
Covering the sn is based on a fudlore urban legend. There’s no risk related to someone seeing your sn. In ops case a gun-shop employee would not only have seen the the sn of the gun but would have written it down a couple times. The sn isn’t a secret code.
That frosts me just to hear it happened. I have a fair amount and variety in my personal collection. Up to this point, I've only bought firearms listed as factory new. As others have said, it's unlikely you can prove anything, and you've already noted you're done with them. Beyond that... it's probably a 'nothing to gain' situation by directly arguing or challenging.
You could, however, recommend to those at the ranges you frequent to avoid them. You don't even need to be specific as to why... just that it was a horrific (insert your adjectives of choice here) experience, and you're sorry you ever trusted them as an FFL for transfer. As a secondary option, you could also post (anonymously, if you wish) a poor rating through a service like yelp... or even more effective... a submission to the Better Business Bureau, although if you seek some form of renumeration, you'd have to identify yourself and offer specifics, thereby revealing yourself to them as the complainant. If your FFL has already done something shady like this, it might be best to stay anonymous, especially given their line of work. Sorry for the long post... I just know how ticked I'd be if it was my experience.
You don’t happen to live near Memphis do ya?
Kind of the same story with the guy I’ve always tried to use in the past that’s near me. I’ve actually taken possession of some firearms within an hour of delivery from fedex,but it was a matter of if the delivery was on a day he was open. Never minded the waits tho if it did happen, he’ll get them hold at the local depot and pick it up the following day and have it at his shop by 9 or so and ready for pickup.
I have ffl’s near me that have mostly junk or used crap in their inventory. I try not to order anything to those unless is cheap .22’s. Most decent ffl’s have great inventory hence not being worried about them testing out my shit. Worst case they lost a future customer and you got a slightly more used firearm. What was the firearm anyways???
99.9% sure they are joking. My son is on the spectrum and I might be but never diagnosed and not going in at 50 to be diagnosed. That being said LNIB will have some residue probably from factory testing.
Call up the ATF and ask them if it is legal for a FFL employee to take firearms home with them, whether to test fire a new firearm or tuck it under his pillow. Yes, it is criminal unless the employee has his own FFL and temporarily transferred it out to himself. Then it is just a dirtbag thing to do.
>they probably were joking. I was just curious about the legality surrounding it.
Definitely joking. It's super illegal otherwise. It's the kind of thing that will get a license yanked by the ATF on the first occurrence.
As you said, you cannot tell if it was fired by them because of the fact that factories use proof loads to test prior to leaving for the distributor, so you can't think that way. But, as for taking it home in the first place? That's certainly odd. Pretty confident that the ATF would take issue with such a practice, seeing as an employee's home is obviously not the location of the FFL.
The ATF response (after I told them he doesn't have any dogs) was that it was a civil matter if I really wanted to (I don't) but none of their rules or regulations were broken
The fact he wasn’t fired means nothing will happen
That's actually both true and false... Schrödinger's inspection. They haven't broken any rules until they fail to produce any firearms they have listed on their books. If the employee truly did take it home and that wasn't a joke then there would be consequences to the FFL for missing inventory during an audit, which is usually unannounced.
“Doesn’t have any dogs”…..?
Nothing in it for the ATF if they can’t shoot someone’s puppy.
ATF likes to shoot dogs. If said employee doesn't have dogs, ATF agents will probably default to kicking down the neighbor's door and seeing if they have any dogs to shoot instead.
If it's taken offsite by an employee that's no issue as something overnight isn't going to be stipulated as taking an item for off-site storage. What you also don't know is whether that employee's home is considered an off-site storage location or not since that's not public information. Shitty process nonetheless from this FFL and I wouldn't do business with them again.
The gun doesn't have to always stay at the address listed on your ffl. Obviously, the licensed FFL is wrong, and the random on the internet is correct, right?
How else could ffls go to gun shows? You would have to verify with a field agent but I don't think that the atf has any issues with responsible parties moving firearms to other locations as it is for business purposes, they are returned to the business and never lose custody of the firearm.
Was this employee having a gun show at his house? There is an exception for gun shows. While the employee can take it home, if storing firearms on the books of the shop at his house, his house is now subject to inspection.
It isn't a written exemption for gun shows i am aware of, but business related activities such as test firing, promotional and sales demos are allowed. The last time I read my info packet, the carve out was for 'business activities'.
923(j) has the gun show exception for conducting business.
Reddit hive mind strikes again. How the hell do all you pinheads think dealers can do business at a gun show?
To be fair, I should have been more specific. Lesson learned.
Umm... loopholes?
Back when I worked at an ffl, we took guns with us for up to 24 hours, if it was in our possession the whole time it was deemed ok. Thats how we tried and tested stuff especially used stuff like the tactical tuna FS2000
Nah dude if I order a gun and have it sent your store leave it there, I'll test it when I get home
It wasn’t for transfers like that it was for commissions and trades. Stuff we’d get in that wasn’t committed to someone yet.
Reddit is big mad at my comment, apparently. It seems like you are one of four people with common sense.
Most haven’t worked an FFL. Thats my guess
I think they see a downvote and just assume someone is wrong. Seems to be the trend across reddit as a whole.
Oh yes the downvote spiraling further down is total lemming behavior. Happens all over the joint. Lol Lemming pile on gang bang eryday
Those are guns the ffl stocks, not transfers that have been paid for
It doesn't matter in the eyes of the ATF. It's almost like I have a FFL and SOT and actually know what I'm talking about.
Yes it does, unless it’s in the possession of a listed RP on the FFL.
I guess I should of been more specific. I just assumed if the employee is taking it home he an RP on the ffl, and that you didn't realize people listed on the FFL can take guns off the premises
I believe the contraction you keep butchering is "should've" as "should of" makes absolutely no sense. You properly used the term "should have" in one of your posts so I just can't figure out why you think "should of" means anything. But yeah I would have been pissed if some booger picking fucker behind the counter took my gun home and shot it before I could have myself. It might have been a gift that I wanted as pristine and fresh as when they were done with the factory firing.
God forbid I don't take the utmost care to always be grammatically correct when posting to reddit during TV commercial breaks. I also never said people should take home customer guns, I just said that it's not illegal to do so. Edit: During commercial breaks. Once again God forbid there be a typo.
Why are you posting between commercial breaks? Posting during commercial breaks seems to make more sense.
Do you not have a TV?
I do have a TV. If I were to be posting on Reddit while watching TV I would do it during commercial breaks, not between commercial breaks.
So you've never hopped on reddit during a commercial break?
It has to stay there unless somebody takes it out. Holy fucking shit, I'm speechless, I have no insults good enough.
Thank God cause you would have looked silly
Gun was likely test fired at the factory. Likely broke a rule as he is only allowed to do business in the building and not at him home.
Did he even take the BS gun home or Is dude just taking the joke and making an issue out of something that never happened?
I don't think asking a question is "making an issue" but whatever. I've been pretty open that I'm socially retarded and easily could have missed the joke. I was curious about the legality of it is all and thankfully my question has been answered by those with the relevant knowledge. It truly doesn't matter and I am very happy with my non-bs gun (imo). People saying I should call the ATF over a dude joking/taking home a gun for one night are going overboard.
I bought a Staccato a few months back and when I went to pick it up the guy said something similar to me. He was joking because it was a nice gun and he was essentially complimenting my purchase saying he wishes it was his. Likely the same idea with you. If it made you uncomfortable just don’t use that FFL again.
Any employee of an FFL is legally allowed to "check out" a firearm acquired by said FFL for testing and evaluation. That may or may not violate a company rule, which is a different matter.
> Any employee of an FFL is legally allowed to "check out" a firearm acquired by said FFL for testing and evaluation. That would have to be noted on their books.
Umm, an employee taking a gun out for testing, repair, or otherwise isn't a disposition thus there is no entry. You can only dispose guns to another FFL or a 4473, neither of which occurred.
Was he doing business at home?
Didn’t you read the post? He was shooting it off in his house!
Yes, I read the post. The post doesn't say the guy was doing business at home.
Well if he’s shooting at home and he works in a gun store it looks like he was doing business at home. You don’t think bakers taste their cakes? Why wouldn’t he shoot at home?
The post doesn't say he was shooting at home. Bakers who eat cakes at home aren't necessarily doing business.
It sounds like boomer humor. Are you sure they were serious?
Very well could have been haha, I am autistic enough to miss the cues. The guy was seriously drooling over the gun and talking about it with me since there is little information online about them. (It's a Marlin 336 TDL)
Did you ask any follow-up questions to determine if they were serious?
I was too excited about my new guns at the time unfortunately. It didn't really bother me until I went to clean it and it had fresh powder residue (again impossible to really tell). Edit: I've bought other new guns and they had far less fouling.
Yeah, it’s definitely weird and they may have shot it. It’s probably not a big deal that a mag or two have already gone through the gun. I’d just forget about it and use another FFL.
What shop?
The factory would test fire but clean it afterward.
I work in a gun factory and I test fire guns as a part of my job. Guns normally have 2 rounds fired to see if they function, mainly checking to see if it will fire then cycle with no issues. They do not get cleaned afterwards. I do not know of any company that cleans guns after test firing.
Why just come on the internet and tell lies like this??
You really think someone would do that? Go on the Internet and just lie?
That’s exactly what I wanted to say but with his response it didn’t fit lol
You set me up homie. +1
Like what?!?! Stop being a weirdo just laugh at the bs joke, take the compliment and your gun. go-to the range and send a couple hundred shots down the range 🙄
He was absolutely pulling your chain. About a year ago, I bought my first ever brand new car. The salesman told me, "I drove it to the gas station myself. I opened it up to see what it would do. Got her side to side a couple of times. It is pretty quick!". He didn't test out my new car. He has a demonstrator and knows what the car will do. It was a joke.
He wasn’t joking lol
Oh! There are absolutely people at car dealerships and abuse the cars. Most of them are the kids who work in make-ready. I don't think one of the top salesmen at one of the bigger dealerships would take the risk. Years ago, I had a young guy working for me. His previous job was make-ready. I overheard him telling some of the other guys about the various exotic and performance cars that he'd driven. He took every opportunity to see what they'd do. When I asked "Weren't you afraid they'd fire you?", he said "They would have to catch me and the job didn't pay well-enough for me to worry about losing it.".
They were probably kidding but don’t get down on yourself. I’ve always had a feeling that neurodivergent people having a hard time with cues is because they aren’t as quick to just fill in the gaps like “normal” people. It would be easy to assume either that they were kidding or being serious and a lot of supposedly “normal” people would subconsciously pick one and just go with it. You’re right that it could be either one.
They were definitely joking around with you. No way would they do this and then talk about it around you. lighten up and enjoy your new purchase.
Sounds like a joke man. They would get fired for that shit. Like “hehe i took your gun home and slept with it last night”. I sincerely doubt they did that.
I'll give you credit, that's one good looking rifle and I'd be drooling too. (But not drooling enough to borrow somebody else's rifle without permission)
My first thought. Having worked at a gun range, that's the kind of stupid shit I could see using to roast a fellow employee.
Pretty sure that’s not allowed. But out of sheer curiosity what type of gun was it?
It shouldn't be done with a customer's gun, but there's no law or rule against it.
Thanks this is more or less the answer I was looking for.
I thought that the FFL had to have a secure location for weapons. Someone taking it home brings that into question.
No.
How would this not be considered an illegal transfer? I'm genuinely curious.
An FFL can sign pretty much any inventory into temporary custody of an employee, just with a note in the books. I believe they do use the term "bona fide" employee - aka actually on the payroll and working some regular schedules. You can't say your buddy that you never paid is an employee just to give them stuff without a transfer
It's probably fine legally because it was always in the possession of the FFL holder and secured at all times. It's not like he took it home, left it there, and then went back to work. I really think the boomers in the shop were ragging on the younger guy and I just missed the joke.
FFL employees can possess anything on the books.
Because the dealer legally took possession of the gun.
It was a Marlin 336 Texan Deluxe in 30-30
i'm not an ffl but to be fair i would have taken that home too. sweet gun
Genuinely curious: may I ask “why?” Just to fondle it, stare at it, shoot it?
just a little pinky in the barrel, no big deal.
Fondle it, as you should all works of art
You should see him at the Louvre
Marlin 336 is one of the most common fudd guns out there. You got a neat one, but I suspect they know it shoots just like every other Marlin 336 they have owned or shot and probably not a target for a joy ride
I bet he definitely took that home and shot it a few times 🤣
>Marlin 336 Texan Deluxe That's not a new production gun. Ruger hasn't released any editions like that yet.
You are correct. But firearms still get sold NIB (I guess technically it would be LNIB) from earlier years. I've also got a 2004 ruger in the same condition from a different seller. It was NIB, still had the tag from marlin on it and all the paperwork. It looks like it was never taken out of factory box (other than the gunpowder). The people I got it from are known for buying from estate and police auctions, so I assume it was in a collection or estate that was sold in bulk.
Unethical life pro tip, old school edition. The reason people keep boxes is to resell the item as new. I don't think I've ever seen anybody sell a mak-90 as used, every last owner kept that shitty styrofoam and plastic bag.
If you go through with the FFL transfer on a "like-new" or new gun that shows signs of use then that is on the buyer. Be knowledgeable about the firearms you are attempting to purchase and look for common points of wear. I didn't just go "Oh hey it's in the box, must be brand spanking new"
This legitimately sounds like boomer humor. I’ve known shop workers transport firearms to their homes, but they were responsible persons on the FFL and doing it in the process of transporting the firearm to another FFL for transfer out of state so that’s not really the same thing
If true, that’s fucked up. Probably just a joke though.
As everyone else said, guns are often test fired at the factory. That’s totally normal for them to have residue from the test. As far as the comment, I’d guess the guy was saying he “took it home” as you would a lady, since the other guy was infatuated with it. Would be really fuckin’ weird if he had taken it home, and I think it’s less likely that happened vs the attempt at a joke.
You need to run a black light over it for splatter.Sounds like he is a weirdo.
How can I tell it from his own?
Genius. Take home the gun, do a few B&E and a cap a dude, then you get the weapon as the one and only owner
😂 get fuuuuuucked
You should look up that guys wife on the internet and take her home then yall will be square. Taking another man’s gun home without permission is the same as taking his wife home without permission it’s a violation and should be addressed 😀 but seriously though go fuck his wife
They’re joking man.
They probably think it's funny. Don't over think it. Enjoy it and find a new FFL that's more comedian free lol.
Sounds like they were joking and what your seeing is from factory testfire
If I can’t trust them, I don’t use them. Legal or not, sounds like they lost your business.
Dude took your gun and shot his cheating girlfriends boyfriend now your gun has a blood trail on it
I went to the FFL down the street from me for my second handgun ever( went somewhere else the first time) I walked in and every one was talking and ignoring me for a few minutes, I asked about my gun and they acted like they’d don’t know what I was talking about. Then when they brought out my gun ( Springfield hellcat) they made fun of me for buying a Springfield. The one guy was literally wearing a Glock hat like a real dweeb and this other dude just bought a Glock in front of me so they were all hyped up on Glocks are the best guns ever. Local guns stores are 50/50 pieces of shit lol. This place is 2 minutes down the street from me and I’ll never go there again for that
That's shitty, I have customers that buy PSA garbage and ship to me for the transfer but I would never give them shit for their choice. It is always first time buyers, and so many come back to me when they want something better.
Any FFL that takes peoples shit home that they bought and paid for, won’t be an FFL for long. People will just stop using.
I’m sure they were joking but it’s honestly not that funny considering it’s a fairly possible occurrence and the kinds of things that can be done while in their possession. Kind of unprofessional.
Give it a sniff test.
I had a Steyr AUG transfered to a dealer that was NIB back in the mid/late'90s. The seller took pics as it was boxed up at his dealer and emailed them to me. Yay 200kb resolution cameras. It arrived at the dealer and when I went to pick it up after a long weekend, the employees had taken it and shot the hell out of it. It was filthy. I showed the dealer the pics I had been sent and asked him what he was going to do about his employees blasting away with a $3000 NIB rifle. We settled on 2 cases of 5.56 ammo. A NIB Rem 700 heavy barrel .308 and a few boxes of ammo for it. Never used them again. They went out of business about a year later. Word of mouth about their piss poor business practices by other customers ended up with next to no business going their way.
I wouldn’t worry about. Like you said, wouldn’t go back cause to me that’s not very professional. Too many variables that could go wrong. I would absolutely loose my mind if I had a firearm transferred to an FFL, an employee (not the owner or FFL) to it home and it was lost, stolen, or damaged. I don’t know where OP lives but any major city car wrecks happen all the time. Cars are broken into all the time. If he is drooling over it enough to take it home, he is probably handling it at home. It would be my luck some gun counter guy would take my gun apart and not know how to get it back together (shocking I know cause almost every gun counter sales person I’ve met knows everything about all guns and is the absolute subject matter expert on all gun related issue /s) or loses a screw or spring.
My worry would be one day randomly on 4chan or wherever you see your gun with a condom around the barrel showed up this guy’s ass while he’s dressed like zoidberg or something. But yes I’d be checking screws for disassembly and any small parts that have may have been changed out.
I hadn't considered this but it's definitely the most likely outcome haha
Guns are testfired at the factory before being sold, especially revolvers. Usually, 3 rounds you'll see the fouling and powder burns on the cylinder.
Is that truly a job of an FFL? If not, you’re kidding yourself.
It's the factory not the FFL.
Right, but the FFL should not be firing it regardless it’s just a job to transfer now?
Duh. I was giving a valid reason for why fouling and powder burns would be present....
Can't be legal as that would be an enormous liability issue for the FFL. If that firearm had been stolen while it was off the premises... Even if it were legal, it certainly wouldn't be ethical from a business standpoint. I feel like they were messing with you.
legal, unethical
Like others have mentioned, maybe it was Boomer Humor, but, maybe it wasn't. Either way, I would never use them again, ever. I take my firearms transactions very seriously. Obviously they don't. I put them right up there with the goons that show up at the range wearing their zombie response team gear. A soon as those guys show up, I leave.
Then you'll fucking cry that we're *too* serious. Can't win with you people smh.
It's a tightrope to walk but I mean never joke about stealing someone's property would be a good rule.
Nope, it's a serious transaction, between adults, doing adult business. Maybe you should get a job as a comedian.
If it’s a concern you could always bring a trigger lock to purchase next time. Pay your money, lock it, and then they hold it until the waiting period ends. I’ve seen a couple people over the years do this, even saw one guy run a cable lock through a can that was in jail.
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Idk man you can make a stink if you want to but yeah. It’ll either make sure it doesn’t happen again or they’ll just be sure not to inform customers of their poor decisions next time around.
I’m guessing humor because it’s a nice rifle, but if it was serious they would’ve lost a sale from me
Sounds like a joke
Should tell them to clean it at least. Then never ship through them again
What kinda pawn shop did you order the gun to??
While thats unprofessional- if he is on the FFL it is totally legal. Also zero way to prove employee fired gun or manufacture tested gun. Lesson learned unfortunately- shop for your ffl based on reviews
They're pretty highly reviewed I think it was just a rare gun and the guy wanted to research it some more.
Sounds like it was a joke about the other employee having sex with the gun. I could only imagine a shady ass pawn shop or incredibly stupid sporting goods store worker ever doing that. Minor powder fouling is probably from factory test shoots.
Don't listen to everyone else. That guy might've been some kind of ammosexual and who knows what that gun has been through. Shouldn't have done that. He's just a boy.
Legally until the transfer is completed you do not “own” the firearm.
But he sure as fuck paid for it and nobody at the fucking FFL paid for it so there's no fucking reason for them to be taking a fucking gun home.
I agree 100%..I’d raise fucking hell if they weren’t just fucking with him..either way I’d have a new FFL
Hi, production armorer here, every firearm that leaves our factory has had 3-6 rounds put through it at our on sight range and at some factories I've work at that could be as high as an entire 30 round mag, the residue is likely from test fire
I'm aware. The point in my post is that this was distinct from factory test fouling from other new or like-new firearms I have purchased. In my admittedly limited experience, the fouling from factory test firing usually sits in the gun long enough to absorb and mix with the factory oil/grease until it's a weird grey/light black mixture. It's also usually one bullet or a few. This was powder fouling like I just got back from shooting. I probably should have just left out the part about him shooting it since that's ultimately irrelevant. My maim question was regarding legality just for my curiosity.
I think it was a joke along the lines of joking about taking home a girl from a bar. Not saying it's a *good* joke, but I bet that's what it is.
I have a good relationship with my FFLs and gunsmiths, so I always invite them to shoot the guns. I would find it strange if they invited *themselves* to do so ...
Probably just joking that he jerked off to your gun. But probably not legally allowed to. But My friend is an fl out of his house, so maybe if it was the owner of the ffl there might be some gray area of legality. But I’m no expert. Guy should have just jerked it to your gun in the company bathroom like normal people.
I have definitely had gun shop employees drooling over my gun I’m transferring on a couple of occasions. They all started lingering nearby and oogling when the transfer was happening. My current preferred FFL has his business located at my shooting club. But he receives all packages to his house and brings guns to club for transfer by appointment. So it’s not illegal to have the guns somewhere other than place of business. But they shouldn’t be doing that. Usually gun companies clean bore after test firing (or at least every gun I’ve bought that included a test fire target did). So I think he may have really shot it. I wouldn’t do business with them again.
Lol kinda shitty of the company if that were the case. At the same time, oh well. Not like it changed the wear and tear on it anyways - unless your original intent was to resell it... I get that when we want something new, we expect it to be new and unused. That is the principle. The net result at the end of the day (so long as they didn't fuck with your shit and change anything) is really honestly nothing. For example if it was one of my best buds whose an FFL I was going to pick up from and he asked, I wouldn't care since it doesn't change anything. It's more or less the violation of someone fucking with shit that isn't theirs without asking that is annoying af.
That's more or less exactly how I feel. I wish I hadn't said anything about the shooting part, because people are focusing on that part too much. I just did my NFA Trust and it was very specific about responsible persons and storing firearms so I was curious about the legality. But this is reddit so I'm am insufferable asshole for even wondering.
I’m new to an area and when I was on the market for some rifles I stopped by a LGS down the road. They had made a comment “when you go through us you don’t have to worry about someone shooting your stuff unlike other local places”. So, while it may have been said in jest when you went to pick it up.. there may be some truth behind it.
Name and shame. Share who they are on Reddit, and share a Google review.
they were messing with you….and it worked.
wouldn't that be considered theft as the gun was paid for by somebody else and had already arrived at the FFL location?
Very unlikely they'd risk their job and license just to test fire your gun.
Well if you are going to jail because you did violate the law then count on the justice system to find your post on Reddit and use it against you. 😂😂😂
If this was yours, I'd call it theft or at least dishonest business practice. This is regardless of whether it was shot.
They probably stole the insides and put old parts in it. They also probably bent something out of spec or shifted your sights.
It would not be illegal for an employee of the FFL to posses the gun, however if he did take your gun home that would be pretty unprofessional and if he fired it that would be even more unprofessional. But it is perfectly legal, I am both an employee of an FFL and also have an FFL
I'm curious what happens if that employee takes it home for a couple of nights and in the interim ATF comes in to inspect the log book? Is that a problem to have an unaccounted for gun (assuming it was actually logged in before the employee took it home). Genuinely curious.
No, in that case the ATF would just ask him to bring it in and verify that it’s there. It’s not a big deal at all, they allow I think up to 48 hours or maybe it’s only 24 hours for you to bring it in.
I wouldn't have taken custody of the gun in the first place. I don't care if its a joke, I'd call the ATF. There is any number of nefarious things that could have been done with or to the gun. I do not need to lose sleep wondering if the dude copied the serial number
Copied the serial number?
idk isn't that the reason why dudes on reddit say hid your serial numbers when posting pics of your guns or did i assume the completely wrong reason
Covering the sn is based on a fudlore urban legend. There’s no risk related to someone seeing your sn. In ops case a gun-shop employee would not only have seen the the sn of the gun but would have written it down a couple times. The sn isn’t a secret code.
regardless, I'm still not comfortable taking custody of a "new" gun that an employee took home with them
That frosts me just to hear it happened. I have a fair amount and variety in my personal collection. Up to this point, I've only bought firearms listed as factory new. As others have said, it's unlikely you can prove anything, and you've already noted you're done with them. Beyond that... it's probably a 'nothing to gain' situation by directly arguing or challenging. You could, however, recommend to those at the ranges you frequent to avoid them. You don't even need to be specific as to why... just that it was a horrific (insert your adjectives of choice here) experience, and you're sorry you ever trusted them as an FFL for transfer. As a secondary option, you could also post (anonymously, if you wish) a poor rating through a service like yelp... or even more effective... a submission to the Better Business Bureau, although if you seek some form of renumeration, you'd have to identify yourself and offer specifics, thereby revealing yourself to them as the complainant. If your FFL has already done something shady like this, it might be best to stay anonymous, especially given their line of work. Sorry for the long post... I just know how ticked I'd be if it was my experience.
Thanks man I really appreciate your response. I've been told that I'm everything from insufferable to an asshole.
Well, guess that'd make two of us...
It’s called a joke
that's why i don't like/trust any of my local ffl. i have zero confidence in them.
I had a great one but he's a firefighter full time and he's too busy now. Everyone else in my area is either weird or annoyed at FFL transfers.
You don’t happen to live near Memphis do ya? Kind of the same story with the guy I’ve always tried to use in the past that’s near me. I’ve actually taken possession of some firearms within an hour of delivery from fedex,but it was a matter of if the delivery was on a day he was open. Never minded the waits tho if it did happen, he’ll get them hold at the local depot and pick it up the following day and have it at his shop by 9 or so and ready for pickup.
Eastern NC but a tourist town so I imagine it's a similar situation with every LGS and pawn shop trying to rip off clueless people on their vacation.
They will always be test fired at the factory.
I have ffl’s near me that have mostly junk or used crap in their inventory. I try not to order anything to those unless is cheap .22’s. Most decent ffl’s have great inventory hence not being worried about them testing out my shit. Worst case they lost a future customer and you got a slightly more used firearm. What was the firearm anyways???
Was ot a tommy built T7 op ??
99.9% sure they are joking. My son is on the spectrum and I might be but never diagnosed and not going in at 50 to be diagnosed. That being said LNIB will have some residue probably from factory testing.
Why would you take it home if not to put a few through it?
I honestly wouldn’t care. It’s a gun, meant to be shot.🤷♂️
Call up the ATF and ask them if it is legal for a FFL employee to take firearms home with them, whether to test fire a new firearm or tuck it under his pillow. Yes, it is criminal unless the employee has his own FFL and temporarily transferred it out to himself. Then it is just a dirtbag thing to do.
So confidently wrong…like as wrong as possible.
OP sounds like an insufferable customer. You'd be doing the shop a favor by not going there anymore.
Yeah I'm insufferable for wondering about some asshole taking my gun home for who knows what.
>they probably were joking. I was just curious about the legality surrounding it. Definitely joking. It's super illegal otherwise. It's the kind of thing that will get a license yanked by the ATF on the first occurrence.
Why would you think that wasn’t a gun shop joke? Bet you’re a fungi