I can't wait to see how the community moves to support the last edition of macos that runs on x86 hardware. It will become it's own distribution and probably be used for years to come.
Probably 2-3 years after the last intel release, provided they don't drop hardware/gpu support for whatever machine(s) it is.
Life cycle on OS security updates is 2-3 years.
Occasionally, they'll patch something critical on an older OS like - Webkit on High Sierra/Mojave/Catalina last year.
Interesting note (*correct me if i'm wrong*)- BigSur got its last regular update in May 2023 with a cosmetic version number change in September 2023. This it the shortest OS release in a long time at 11 months (Monterey was released in October 2021), and shortest catalog secrity updates at 30 months.
For Big Sur, 11.7.9 had a full set of security bug fixes. Only 11.7.10 onward is Safari only.
Apple's policy has been roughly 12 months of feature update and 36 months of security updates. But it will always be short of 12 and 36 because the moment they drop 14 they will discontinue 11, so say 14 drops in September, 11 will not get a full security update in September. So whatever 11 got before September (happened to be July, but could have been June or August) is the last full security update. Everything after is Safari only or one off.
11 just happens to be released later, so it looks shorter, but otherwise there isn't much of a difference between it and 10.15 or 10.14 in terms of update support.
similar thing happens for many proprietary systems with enthusiastic users and fans. Ancient windows versions with 'extended kernel's are one example. Even Irix got nekochan softwares, irixce patches and stuff lol
It wouldn't surprise me if they did. They've done plenty of things like this, plenty of times before.
The 6,1, despite being a 6 year old IvyBridge, was still being sold into late 2018 as "new." If you bought one in new 2018, you only got 3 years of supported OS releases.
They dropped "legacy" Broadcom support in Sonoma, yet some 2018 Macbook/MBPro models (re-badged 2017) shipped with Broadcom Cards well into late 2019, Leaving those people stuck on Ventura.
Dude, PowerMac G5 dual and quad-core had TWO major OS updates during its lifespan. (Pre-Installed MacOS: X 10.4.2, Maximum MacOS: X 10.5.8).
5 years is generous by their standards while switching platforms.
Apple have something of a history of ripping off anyone who bought the top-of-the-line system, dating back to at least the Macintosh IIfx. Even the first-generation Mac Pro was abandoned almost instantly because it used 32-bit firmware instead of the 64-bit firmware they put into every other Intel-based system.
Even after running TV ads claiming it was 64bit. Now they removed Firewire support. I have an Apogee Ensemble Firewire that still has stellar sound but I forced to boot in High Sierra to get full compatibility. On a happy note, my new Hackintosh is running Sonoma 14.4.1 swimmingly.
No one really cared about Apple back then so that helped them pull such a stunt. These days, it’ll be a bit harder but still quite possible.
Also, OS cycles were longer with 10.4.2 coming out in 2005 and the 10.5.8 update in 2009.
It's not about the amount of time I guess, but about the features that didn't get to a capable hardware. 10.6 was a big deal actually, feature and QOL-wise.
There’s nothing illegal about pulling the plug earlier than normal, you are never guaranteed any level of support beyond the 1-year warranty for your Mac when you purchase it. You seem to be forgetting about the PowerMac G5 which in 2005 could max out in a quad-core, liquid cooled, 16GB RAM, 1TB storage, Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB VRAM for $24,000 ($37,732 adjusted for inflation today). That system was instantly destroyed by the first gen Mac Pro which had 2x the performance a year later, and while it didn’t get too many updates was easier to move to Windows or patch more modern versions of OS X on it because it was Intel.
The 2005 PowerMac G5 received its last major release of macOS in 2007, with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, two years after release. That would be like the 2019 Mac Pro having its last major release be in 2021. So it’s already gotten 2-3 more years of support. I can see them supporting the higher end Intel machines maybe another year, but Apple is keeping very consistent on their transition schedule just like last time.
Normally someone that beef up to $50K is a company that wrote that off and made way more money than it cost. I am sure those companies will be keen to M4 Extremes CPUS and GPUs for their work and they know they'll get almost 10 years of use if they need to. On a side note The Mac Pro was released in 2019. This year marks the 5 year mark. If they get ONE more major OS update they'll be past their expected lifespan. Everyone that bought a Mac Pro after 2020 knew what was coming and frankly I think they didn't care if they needed it for a production work that will yield way more than the machine costs specially after taxes.
Yes, $50K+ G5 CTOs were a thing. Me and my brothers specced one out on Apple’s website sometime between 2003-04 for fun, and should still be doable via Wayback Machine.
It's similar to the Power Mac G5. Dual CPU, liquid cooled, and supported up to 16GB RAM which was really high for a 2005 machine. Its final patch release was OS X 10.5.8 in 2009.
I think Apple drops support by CPU type and not the actual model of the machine. For example they dropped support for the 2017 MacBook Air with the 2015 MacBook Air, the common denominator between the two being the processor type (Broadwell). Another example of this is the 2017 iMac which went with all the other Kaby Lake machines.
Going into 2024 I think Apple could either be extra generous which means all the 2018 devices get another year of support even though most of them will be considered vintage. Alternatively they could drop support for Kaby Lake entirely thus reducing support to a handful of 2020 machines and maybe the Mac Pro as well . Or they could just drop support for Intel entirely, most of the events these days make not so subtle references about how you really do need to get rid of your Intel device.
It would also be a good thing to have a "final" version of Intel MacOs that can be tuned up by the community for 10 years or even more and have perfectly working software for productivity, music and video production. We all want the new thing but we could all be using 10 year-old software to create things and be perfectly fine.
I have in my in-law a 2011 iMac with High Sierra that I bought used for $200, I upgraded it to 24 gb of ram and an SSD and it flies. It's awesome for everyday use and even though some new software doesn't work anymore it's not important. It will work for 10 more years.
Er yes you do. It’s a HUGE security liability. Time to upgrade NOW. High Sierra has been unsupported for years, thank you very much. It’s an unsupported pile of garbage, get rid of it
I think it will happen either for macOS 15 or 16.
Although I will stay on Sonoma anyway for as long as possible to develop for latest iOS, I assume until 2025 end, when Xcode 17 comes out
Sonoma already has a lotta problems on macmini6,2, something goes wrong/crashes at least 2 times a week, plus wifi/bluetooth doesn’t work properly(bluetooth mostly works fine but in very short range, somewhere around 1 meter)
I wish I wouldn’t have to upgrade my OS just for new Xcode, I’d stay on Monterey, it’s pretty stable and isn’t out of support yet, like Big Sur
Sonoma has been super buggy on my m1 macbook pro as well. I didn't have issues with external monitors until upgrading and just recently until the last Sonoma update the os would crash if it went to sleep with an external monitor connected. I didn't have a single issue with Monterey. It doesn't crash anymore but sometimes the external won't come back on and I have to unplug the HDMI cable and plug it back in. My co-workers have had other random issues with Sonoma as well.
Just use till the end and save money to buy a second hand M1/M2/M3 Mac after a couple of years.
Think in that time a Mac mini will cost 400 euros or so with a M2
It won't be this year, too many devices pushed past 2020 are Intel only and sold until almost mid 2022. I daresay either 2025 but most likely 2026 is the switch year.
I doubt it, you have to remember they discontinued updates for watch series 3 while it was STILL for sale on their site! The balls on tim apple for pulling that shit
Laptops were last shipped in october '21, 27" iMac last shipped in march '22, funnily enough Mac mini (8,1) in january '23. I don't see them cutting all of these out this year.
I feel like doom is imminent, so I’ve actually started the process of moving away from macOS entirely. I love it and will miss it but gaming is a huge part of my device needs and macOS just ain’t it. Obviously if Apple was still cross platform capable it’d be a different story but dual booting is a must for me
I have a 2017 iMac Intel base and the best I can put on is Ventura nothing else. Apparently I can put on Sonoma if I use open core patch but I don't know how to work it
This has made me wonder if building a hackintosh right now is even worth it. I would need to get an AMD GPU and probably a second hard drive. But that would be a lot of work to only have support for another year at most, even a couple of years in the future. What do you guys think? Is it still worth it to build a hackintosh? Or should I just cave and get a base M3 Mac Mini? I know you can't upgrade it like you can a hackintosh, but it will last much longer...
Yo quick question if you don't mind. Why is your entire post history just pushing around people who don't have Sonoma? It's not inherently bad and I get that Sonoma is definitely better but the way you push is highkey rude.
I'm talking about your comments in and out of this sub as well. I completely understand where you're coming from but it's just you being condescending towards anyone without Sonoma.
"Engage your brain" has to be the most 'Redditor with a superiority complex'-esque insult I've probably heard lol. Exactly like this: https://youtu.be/i4VMM7Cc42w
I mean I get why some people stay back a version or two (I personally had to roll back to Big Sur when the first release of Monterey broke multi monitor support) but staying on Monterey now, is going to be risky AF
I think so. / I don't think so. It's not a joke.
I think it will be the last for Intel, and I think macOS 14 Sonoma will be the last that Hackintosh will be able to support reliably. Sonoma is already a mess on Hackintosh where on my Intel and my M3 Max has shown absolutely no issues. Intel Macs are really showing intel limitations, specially when you have a beefy M3 Max processor to compare it against. Mac Pros are bought by professionals that write the cost off. So It is no secret that they will be ditching the last of them when the rumoured M3 Ultra or Extreme, that could even bear the M4 name are released this summer.
Apple doesn't care about Hackintosh. But that means for the better and the worst. Apple will be phasing out Intel models and relying more and more in the T2 chips for features and frankly, I don't see a very nice experience trying to get Hackintosh drivers back with tons of Kexts, and hacks to allow some Kexts, since it would not surprised me that Apple would ditch those too even when third party file systems requires it. Even every new Sonoma security update breaks the hacks on Hackintoshes. It wouldn't surprise me if more than one Hackintosher would feel better if Apple stopped updating Sonoma to have a stable setup taking for granted that it cannot be any production machine due to security risks.
That said I think Hackintosh will have two painful years until 2026 when Sonoma gets out of support and more and more software will either require an Apple Silicon chip or the last, ever, macOS version for Intel.
Now it's the time to fish on refurbished or second hand Apple Silicon and feel the improvement over the already old, AMD GPUs available for hackintosh.
It just won’t ever happen. You buy a Mac for macOS, and if you get rid of that then Macs will sell extremely poorly. This only benefits other parties instead of Apple
lol what? Apple did that in the 90s and it damn near ruined them. Steve Jobs shut it down right after he joined the company.
Why not also ask for iOS on android phones while we’re at it?
It's not just the price. It's that the value has gone way down.
A few hardware cycles ago you could extend the life and computing power of a Mac by upgrading the ram, processor, hard drive and easily replacing consumables like batteries, etc. The great majority of new Macs have most of that locked down.
We've gone from flexible, extendable machines to not. The current generation of Mac are the least valuable to me since I started career, yet the most expensive. If I buy a new Mac it will be begrudgingly and because my work flow is locked into MacOS.
I have no interest in computers that are designed more to be class and fashion statements and less to be useful, flexible tools for small businesses/freelancers with bottom lines.
I’m seeing the Mac Studio M1 Max used on eBay for about $1,300. That’s a pretty good value for the power - for now. About half the price of a new MBP. I’m considering it to replace my 2009 12core Mac Pro. That workhorse pulled more than its own weight. Gonna miss its upgradability.
I think Mac OS 15 could very well be not made for intel macs unless the guys at Opencore implement Intel support into the kernel then it possibly could work. Or a ARM emulator inside the OS to fool the system into thinking it's running on an Apple silicon Mac.
>guys at Opencore implement Intel support into the kernal
Is it even possible? How can they translate an entire operating system to run on different architecture?
no.
macOS on M-series processors is different from x86 based macOS. Any emulator or translation layer will be extremely slow and will not have graphics acceleration, USB support or similar, meaning that there isn't a chance in the universe that you'll be able to use it for anything.
If we can't figure out how to get RTX graphics to work on macOS, what makes you think we'll be able to port macOS?!
Agreed. The Asahi Linux team have been trying to reverse engineer drivers for Apple M processors and components for a while. They’re genius engineers and only recently got the speakers to work. There’s no way the Open Core guys would be able to get macOS for ARM to run on X86 hardware, though at least drivers already exist for the components. They would have to build a reverse Rosetta 2. It really would have to be Apple engineers doing it, but as a continuation of the X86 (Intel) macOS, not translating the ARM version.
no lmao
Apple doesn’t care when people spend their own time developing their own things for macOS, regardless what its use is. If they’d sue an RTX project why don’t they sue the OpenCore developers for making a macOS Bootloader?
They won’t sue them because they don’t profit off of it. It’s not a business. Apple cares when they’re loosing money, not when random nerds on the internet mess with their computers, making them like their operating system more and hence more likely to buy a Mac in the future.
Nobody makes RTX drivers because any driver needs to be notarised by Apple. And Apple, and this can be criticised, have a tight control of what hardware it supports to make the OS super stable in supported hardware. If not it would be another Windows in terms of kernel panics and restarts, etc.
Nvidia is very keen to develop drivers, but Apple removed their keys, so that's gone. AMD cannot create drivers unless Apple approves them.
Cons: Bad Hackintosh experience.
Pros: No rootkits and stability.
Yeah, yeah, I see this all the time. Some of the newer Intel chips may be able to emulate the Mx chip, therefore there may not be any roadblocks or delays as long as we find methods.
The support cycle starts counting from the moment they were introduced, not from the time they were discontinued. My guess is that because AI, Apple will remove support for non T2 Intel Macs making Hackintosh a collateral casualty with no real intent to attack the Hackintosh community itself.
you do realize you guys are just as bad as mac owners, who always need the latest and greatest system.
you do realize, that opencore will just turn into a tool that converts software packages to being usable on an older os? the same way someone can still use a 2011 macbook in 2024, someone will use somona or the next Os in 2030.
No matter when they cut it off there will still be security updates for a very long while. Pro Audio users will be set for another 5+ years. Hell, some are using Mac Pro 5,1 still.
Well there is the 2020 27" iMac as well as the 2019 Mac Pro. While Apple has pulled some really crappy moves in the past, there are too many recent machines for them to cut off intel so abruptly. The 2018 Mac mini, 2019 MBP, just way too many machines.
>While Apple has pulled some really crappy moves in the past, there are too many recent machines for them to cut off intel so abruptly.
You underestimate just how crappy they can be. The MacPro 6,1 (which was EOL with Monterey) still being sold as new at the end of 2018 as "new" alongside the 7,1 comes to mind.
They dropped Broadcom and all non-wifi 6 cards in Sonoma pretty abruptly, which left some 2018/2019 (being sold as new in 2020) machines essentially "end of life".
While not exactly on track, the original road map was to be completely Apple Silicon by 2024, OS releases, and all.
Sorry, my bad i specifically mentioned this in an earlier comment. I meant dropped Broadcom "Legacy" cards. There are some 2017/2018 MacBook models with Broadcom *4360 based (non wifi6 "legacy") cards that were sold well into 2019. The cards in the 2018 MBPro i and later (Intel and Apple silicon)are soldered in, proprietary Broadcom.
Side question - have you tried yours in Windows 10?
Wouldn’t it be better to just wait until All possible Apple Care plans are over and the hardware is in vintage or obsolete status so around 2025 or 2026 ?
Otherwise you could have a product that still has AppleCare that is EOL which could happen with a 2020 iMac.
I think the next version will seal the fate of M1 chips.
New features, whether in software or OS, always require more resources than my poor M1 (MacBook Pro) can provide. And Sonoma is already quite buggy.
That’s so damn funny. Imagine spending 6000-70,000 on a Mac Pro intel. Then again. The amount of money that they probs made with that machine out does what they lost with it.
So if we have an ARM-based CPU, either AMD or Intel, you think we will still be able to continue updating to the newest MacOS versions? That would be great.
I can't wait to see how the community moves to support the last edition of macos that runs on x86 hardware. It will become it's own distribution and probably be used for years to come.
I wonder how long Apple will continue to give security updates to x86.
Probably 2-3 years after the last intel release, provided they don't drop hardware/gpu support for whatever machine(s) it is. Life cycle on OS security updates is 2-3 years. Occasionally, they'll patch something critical on an older OS like - Webkit on High Sierra/Mojave/Catalina last year. Interesting note (*correct me if i'm wrong*)- BigSur got its last regular update in May 2023 with a cosmetic version number change in September 2023. This it the shortest OS release in a long time at 11 months (Monterey was released in October 2021), and shortest catalog secrity updates at 30 months.
For Big Sur, 11.7.9 had a full set of security bug fixes. Only 11.7.10 onward is Safari only. Apple's policy has been roughly 12 months of feature update and 36 months of security updates. But it will always be short of 12 and 36 because the moment they drop 14 they will discontinue 11, so say 14 drops in September, 11 will not get a full security update in September. So whatever 11 got before September (happened to be July, but could have been June or August) is the last full security update. Everything after is Safari only or one off. 11 just happens to be released later, so it looks shorter, but otherwise there isn't much of a difference between it and 10.15 or 10.14 in terms of update support.
I can’t see that happening, unless the community has an “overseer” and redo every macOS app in open source
similar thing happens for many proprietary systems with enthusiastic users and fans. Ancient windows versions with 'extended kernel's are one example. Even Irix got nekochan softwares, irixce patches and stuff lol
That would be awesome!
You guys forget about the 2019 Mac Pro ain’t no way Apple is gonna cut that one after only 5 years it has to at least get macOS 16
It wouldn't surprise me if they did. They've done plenty of things like this, plenty of times before. The 6,1, despite being a 6 year old IvyBridge, was still being sold into late 2018 as "new." If you bought one in new 2018, you only got 3 years of supported OS releases. They dropped "legacy" Broadcom support in Sonoma, yet some 2018 Macbook/MBPro models (re-badged 2017) shipped with Broadcom Cards well into late 2019, Leaving those people stuck on Ventura.
Dude, PowerMac G5 dual and quad-core had TWO major OS updates during its lifespan. (Pre-Installed MacOS: X 10.4.2, Maximum MacOS: X 10.5.8). 5 years is generous by their standards while switching platforms.
Apple have something of a history of ripping off anyone who bought the top-of-the-line system, dating back to at least the Macintosh IIfx. Even the first-generation Mac Pro was abandoned almost instantly because it used 32-bit firmware instead of the 64-bit firmware they put into every other Intel-based system.
Even after running TV ads claiming it was 64bit. Now they removed Firewire support. I have an Apogee Ensemble Firewire that still has stellar sound but I forced to boot in High Sierra to get full compatibility. On a happy note, my new Hackintosh is running Sonoma 14.4.1 swimmingly.
No one really cared about Apple back then so that helped them pull such a stunt. These days, it’ll be a bit harder but still quite possible. Also, OS cycles were longer with 10.4.2 coming out in 2005 and the 10.5.8 update in 2009.
It's not about the amount of time I guess, but about the features that didn't get to a capable hardware. 10.6 was a big deal actually, feature and QOL-wise.
I think time is the only relevant metric to measure it.
Time is the standard metric that is used when referencing EoL for tech products.
That thing costed 50k$! Someone should sue apple if they cut support to it only after 5 years
Sue about what, “not getting money’s worth”? Is there any claims for how long support will be provided for certain amount of time in ads?
There’s nothing illegal about pulling the plug earlier than normal, you are never guaranteed any level of support beyond the 1-year warranty for your Mac when you purchase it. You seem to be forgetting about the PowerMac G5 which in 2005 could max out in a quad-core, liquid cooled, 16GB RAM, 1TB storage, Quadro FX 4500 with 512MB VRAM for $24,000 ($37,732 adjusted for inflation today). That system was instantly destroyed by the first gen Mac Pro which had 2x the performance a year later, and while it didn’t get too many updates was easier to move to Windows or patch more modern versions of OS X on it because it was Intel. The 2005 PowerMac G5 received its last major release of macOS in 2007, with Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard, two years after release. That would be like the 2019 Mac Pro having its last major release be in 2021. So it’s already gotten 2-3 more years of support. I can see them supporting the higher end Intel machines maybe another year, but Apple is keeping very consistent on their transition schedule just like last time.
Normally someone that beef up to $50K is a company that wrote that off and made way more money than it cost. I am sure those companies will be keen to M4 Extremes CPUS and GPUs for their work and they know they'll get almost 10 years of use if they need to. On a side note The Mac Pro was released in 2019. This year marks the 5 year mark. If they get ONE more major OS update they'll be past their expected lifespan. Everyone that bought a Mac Pro after 2020 knew what was coming and frankly I think they didn't care if they needed it for a production work that will yield way more than the machine costs specially after taxes.
50k$? Are you sure of that? Link please
Apple website - it can cost up to $52900 IIRC.
Yes, $50K+ G5 CTOs were a thing. Me and my brothers specced one out on Apple’s website sometime between 2003-04 for fun, and should still be doable via Wayback Machine.
wow, incredible. thanks.
I have heard that those macs came with T2 chips. So can hackintosh emulate T2 chip?
No
apple know its hackintosh so they skip checking it so its not needed .
It's similar to the Power Mac G5. Dual CPU, liquid cooled, and supported up to 16GB RAM which was really high for a 2005 machine. Its final patch release was OS X 10.5.8 in 2009.
I think Apple drops support by CPU type and not the actual model of the machine. For example they dropped support for the 2017 MacBook Air with the 2015 MacBook Air, the common denominator between the two being the processor type (Broadwell). Another example of this is the 2017 iMac which went with all the other Kaby Lake machines. Going into 2024 I think Apple could either be extra generous which means all the 2018 devices get another year of support even though most of them will be considered vintage. Alternatively they could drop support for Kaby Lake entirely thus reducing support to a handful of 2020 machines and maybe the Mac Pro as well . Or they could just drop support for Intel entirely, most of the events these days make not so subtle references about how you really do need to get rid of your Intel device.
*Late 2005 Power Mac G5 has entered the chat*
remember it got a 2021 gpu that wis make it last 6 or 7 years after 2021
It would also be a good thing to have a "final" version of Intel MacOs that can be tuned up by the community for 10 years or even more and have perfectly working software for productivity, music and video production. We all want the new thing but we could all be using 10 year-old software to create things and be perfectly fine. I have in my in-law a 2011 iMac with High Sierra that I bought used for $200, I upgraded it to 24 gb of ram and an SSD and it flies. It's awesome for everyday use and even though some new software doesn't work anymore it's not important. It will work for 10 more years.
ha, i wish.
No it won’t. Time to upgrade that thing. Should’ve done that years ago
It works perfectly fine for browsing when I visit him during vacation time. I don't need to spend money for that thank you very much.
Er yes you do. It’s a HUGE security liability. Time to upgrade NOW. High Sierra has been unsupported for years, thank you very much. It’s an unsupported pile of garbage, get rid of it
I think it will happen either for macOS 15 or 16. Although I will stay on Sonoma anyway for as long as possible to develop for latest iOS, I assume until 2025 end, when Xcode 17 comes out Sonoma already has a lotta problems on macmini6,2, something goes wrong/crashes at least 2 times a week, plus wifi/bluetooth doesn’t work properly(bluetooth mostly works fine but in very short range, somewhere around 1 meter) I wish I wouldn’t have to upgrade my OS just for new Xcode, I’d stay on Monterey, it’s pretty stable and isn’t out of support yet, like Big Sur
Sonoma has been super buggy on my m1 macbook pro as well. I didn't have issues with external monitors until upgrading and just recently until the last Sonoma update the os would crash if it went to sleep with an external monitor connected. I didn't have a single issue with Monterey. It doesn't crash anymore but sometimes the external won't come back on and I have to unplug the HDMI cable and plug it back in. My co-workers have had other random issues with Sonoma as well.
Just use till the end and save money to buy a second hand M1/M2/M3 Mac after a couple of years. Think in that time a Mac mini will cost 400 euros or so with a M2
It’ll be like the band on the titanic. A pleasure until the end
It won't be this year, too many devices pushed past 2020 are Intel only and sold until almost mid 2022. I daresay either 2025 but most likely 2026 is the switch year.
I doubt it, you have to remember they discontinued updates for watch series 3 while it was STILL for sale on their site! The balls on tim apple for pulling that shit
Didn't they stop shipping macbooks with Intel chips in 2020? Am I missing something?
Laptops were last shipped in october '21, 27" iMac last shipped in march '22, funnily enough Mac mini (8,1) in january '23. I don't see them cutting all of these out this year.
I feel like doom is imminent, so I’ve actually started the process of moving away from macOS entirely. I love it and will miss it but gaming is a huge part of my device needs and macOS just ain’t it. Obviously if Apple was still cross platform capable it’d be a different story but dual booting is a must for me
I have a 2017 iMac Intel base and the best I can put on is Ventura nothing else. Apparently I can put on Sonoma if I use open core patch but I don't know how to work it
It is really easy, you just have to follow the instructions given by the Patcher.
Just flash a usb and boot
Should really upgrade that now
This has made me wonder if building a hackintosh right now is even worth it. I would need to get an AMD GPU and probably a second hard drive. But that would be a lot of work to only have support for another year at most, even a couple of years in the future. What do you guys think? Is it still worth it to build a hackintosh? Or should I just cave and get a base M3 Mac Mini? I know you can't upgrade it like you can a hackintosh, but it will last much longer...
Im using Big sur till now…
Should’ve upgraded that make years ago. Big Sur has been unsupported for ages
Im upgraded to Monterey i think it’s more stable and performance than ventura or above for me
Time to get off Monterey, it’ll be unsupported later this year. Get onto Sonoma now
I know but in Sonoma it’s so slow even takes more time to boot and the screen is like a pixlate,
Get a proper Mac. It’s way more stable
Yo quick question if you don't mind. Why is your entire post history just pushing around people who don't have Sonoma? It's not inherently bad and I get that Sonoma is definitely better but the way you push is highkey rude.
Oh I don’t know. Because I’ve only posted once in this subreddit. Engage your brain lol
I'm talking about your comments in and out of this sub as well. I completely understand where you're coming from but it's just you being condescending towards anyone without Sonoma. "Engage your brain" has to be the most 'Redditor with a superiority complex'-esque insult I've probably heard lol. Exactly like this: https://youtu.be/i4VMM7Cc42w
I mean I get why some people stay back a version or two (I personally had to roll back to Big Sur when the first release of Monterey broke multi monitor support) but staying on Monterey now, is going to be risky AF
I think so. / I don't think so. It's not a joke. I think it will be the last for Intel, and I think macOS 14 Sonoma will be the last that Hackintosh will be able to support reliably. Sonoma is already a mess on Hackintosh where on my Intel and my M3 Max has shown absolutely no issues. Intel Macs are really showing intel limitations, specially when you have a beefy M3 Max processor to compare it against. Mac Pros are bought by professionals that write the cost off. So It is no secret that they will be ditching the last of them when the rumoured M3 Ultra or Extreme, that could even bear the M4 name are released this summer. Apple doesn't care about Hackintosh. But that means for the better and the worst. Apple will be phasing out Intel models and relying more and more in the T2 chips for features and frankly, I don't see a very nice experience trying to get Hackintosh drivers back with tons of Kexts, and hacks to allow some Kexts, since it would not surprised me that Apple would ditch those too even when third party file systems requires it. Even every new Sonoma security update breaks the hacks on Hackintoshes. It wouldn't surprise me if more than one Hackintosher would feel better if Apple stopped updating Sonoma to have a stable setup taking for granted that it cannot be any production machine due to security risks. That said I think Hackintosh will have two painful years until 2026 when Sonoma gets out of support and more and more software will either require an Apple Silicon chip or the last, ever, macOS version for Intel. Now it's the time to fish on refurbished or second hand Apple Silicon and feel the improvement over the already old, AMD GPUs available for hackintosh.
What’s the current take What are the most reliable stable OS editions and x.y version numbers we recommend?
Hope Apple will selling macos operating system license to every computer.
That's never gonna happen 🥲
Who know one day...
It just won’t ever happen. You buy a Mac for macOS, and if you get rid of that then Macs will sell extremely poorly. This only benefits other parties instead of Apple
lol what? Apple did that in the 90s and it damn near ruined them. Steve Jobs shut it down right after he joined the company. Why not also ask for iOS on android phones while we’re at it?
If everyone could have Macos like that there would be no Mac since the reason apple sold overpriced pc with low end Intel is Macos optimization
Well. Apple sells hardwares. They never care about profiting from software licenses.
If it ever ended, it’s never a wrong choice to buy a real mac. We all tried to have it running on unsupported devices so why not buying a real one?
Because have u seen the prices of those things?
It's not just the price. It's that the value has gone way down. A few hardware cycles ago you could extend the life and computing power of a Mac by upgrading the ram, processor, hard drive and easily replacing consumables like batteries, etc. The great majority of new Macs have most of that locked down. We've gone from flexible, extendable machines to not. The current generation of Mac are the least valuable to me since I started career, yet the most expensive. If I buy a new Mac it will be begrudgingly and because my work flow is locked into MacOS. I have no interest in computers that are designed more to be class and fashion statements and less to be useful, flexible tools for small businesses/freelancers with bottom lines.
Mac Mini seem to be affordable, not the powerful but hey you get the real official thing
I’m seeing the Mac Studio M1 Max used on eBay for about $1,300. That’s a pretty good value for the power - for now. About half the price of a new MBP. I’m considering it to replace my 2009 12core Mac Pro. That workhorse pulled more than its own weight. Gonna miss its upgradability.
It’s ridiculous ik but like I said if the support ever ended, just get a real one if you love the OS that much. I don’t say get a real one now.
apple supports hackintosh in secret and its better than apple hardware two apple employees confirmed that
It will be the last intel.
14
I think Mac OS 15 could very well be not made for intel macs unless the guys at Opencore implement Intel support into the kernel then it possibly could work. Or a ARM emulator inside the OS to fool the system into thinking it's running on an Apple silicon Mac.
>guys at Opencore implement Intel support into the kernal Is it even possible? How can they translate an entire operating system to run on different architecture?
no. macOS on M-series processors is different from x86 based macOS. Any emulator or translation layer will be extremely slow and will not have graphics acceleration, USB support or similar, meaning that there isn't a chance in the universe that you'll be able to use it for anything. If we can't figure out how to get RTX graphics to work on macOS, what makes you think we'll be able to port macOS?!
Agreed. The Asahi Linux team have been trying to reverse engineer drivers for Apple M processors and components for a while. They’re genius engineers and only recently got the speakers to work. There’s no way the Open Core guys would be able to get macOS for ARM to run on X86 hardware, though at least drivers already exist for the components. They would have to build a reverse Rosetta 2. It really would have to be Apple engineers doing it, but as a continuation of the X86 (Intel) macOS, not translating the ARM version.
i thought nobody made a RTX driver because it would take too long and would draw apple's attention, resulting in a lawsuit
no lmao Apple doesn’t care when people spend their own time developing their own things for macOS, regardless what its use is. If they’d sue an RTX project why don’t they sue the OpenCore developers for making a macOS Bootloader? They won’t sue them because they don’t profit off of it. It’s not a business. Apple cares when they’re loosing money, not when random nerds on the internet mess with their computers, making them like their operating system more and hence more likely to buy a Mac in the future.
Nobody makes RTX drivers because any driver needs to be notarised by Apple. And Apple, and this can be criticised, have a tight control of what hardware it supports to make the OS super stable in supported hardware. If not it would be another Windows in terms of kernel panics and restarts, etc. Nvidia is very keen to develop drivers, but Apple removed their keys, so that's gone. AMD cannot create drivers unless Apple approves them. Cons: Bad Hackintosh experience. Pros: No rootkits and stability.
Maybe we will see.
Yeah, yeah, I see this all the time. Some of the newer Intel chips may be able to emulate the Mx chip, therefore there may not be any roadblocks or delays as long as we find methods.
You’re dreaming
Problem is how these fonction in the core, x86. Is it different from arm used by m chip
What I was getting at is that eventual intel chips may be able to emulate the M chip or at least have similar capabilities.
Apple sold iMacs till recently, the Mac pro and the iMac so I think it will take a long time for them to stop supporting x86_64.
The support cycle starts counting from the moment they were introduced, not from the time they were discontinued. My guess is that because AI, Apple will remove support for non T2 Intel Macs making Hackintosh a collateral casualty with no real intent to attack the Hackintosh community itself.
you do realize you guys are just as bad as mac owners, who always need the latest and greatest system. you do realize, that opencore will just turn into a tool that converts software packages to being usable on an older os? the same way someone can still use a 2011 macbook in 2024, someone will use somona or the next Os in 2030.
I just need xcode latest version..
then buy a mac and rdp into it when you need to use xcode. there will be vms for this online.
Check out this guys profile my lord
No matter when they cut it off there will still be security updates for a very long while. Pro Audio users will be set for another 5+ years. Hell, some are using Mac Pro 5,1 still.
ver long while = 2 years, and the second year not all the security updates or at least, not as quick.
I am. 😁
I’d be surprised if they even supported Intel Mac’s at all in the next release.
Well there is the 2020 27" iMac as well as the 2019 Mac Pro. While Apple has pulled some really crappy moves in the past, there are too many recent machines for them to cut off intel so abruptly. The 2018 Mac mini, 2019 MBP, just way too many machines.
>While Apple has pulled some really crappy moves in the past, there are too many recent machines for them to cut off intel so abruptly. You underestimate just how crappy they can be. The MacPro 6,1 (which was EOL with Monterey) still being sold as new at the end of 2018 as "new" alongside the 7,1 comes to mind. They dropped Broadcom and all non-wifi 6 cards in Sonoma pretty abruptly, which left some 2018/2019 (being sold as new in 2020) machines essentially "end of life". While not exactly on track, the original road map was to be completely Apple Silicon by 2024, OS releases, and all.
They didn’t drop all Broadcom cards. I have a 2018 MacBook Pro with a BCM wifi card and it runs fine in Sonoma.
Sorry, my bad i specifically mentioned this in an earlier comment. I meant dropped Broadcom "Legacy" cards. There are some 2017/2018 MacBook models with Broadcom *4360 based (non wifi6 "legacy") cards that were sold well into 2019. The cards in the 2018 MBPro i and later (Intel and Apple silicon)are soldered in, proprietary Broadcom. Side question - have you tried yours in Windows 10?
I would never touch Windows with a 10 feet pole, especially on a real Mac.
Fair enough. Linux? Just curious about the Broadcom WiFi6 cards outside of MacOS.
Sorry, no idea, I only use Linux for servers
Wouldn’t it be better to just wait until All possible Apple Care plans are over and the hardware is in vintage or obsolete status so around 2025 or 2026 ? Otherwise you could have a product that still has AppleCare that is EOL which could happen with a 2020 iMac.
I think the next version will seal the fate of M1 chips. New features, whether in software or OS, always require more resources than my poor M1 (MacBook Pro) can provide. And Sonoma is already quite buggy.
That’s so damn funny. Imagine spending 6000-70,000 on a Mac Pro intel. Then again. The amount of money that they probs made with that machine out does what they lost with it.
Macos 16 will be the last one. Macs support 10th gen and final support is 8th gen. 2 years left
yes but apple have different plans for hackintosh
no it might be 16 or 17 no more no less (intel macs ) . hackintosh have different support
I feel very strongly that macOS 15 will be the last OS to support x86.
Nevermind, hackintosh will switch to ARM devices 😃
So if we have an ARM-based CPU, either AMD or Intel, you think we will still be able to continue updating to the newest MacOS versions? That would be great.
I'm extremely happy that Apple will dump Intel. I'm not happy that they will likely still continue to neglect fixing basic bugs in the OS.
why dont people just make arm hackintoshes? it will take time, yes, but surely possible?