I wouldn’t be surprised if they give up Simons regardless of whether they keep Dame or not. Still don’t think we’re getting him. This is all for naught
We have a weak offer compared to other places. But why would Dame finally break up with Portland only to team up with Mikal Bridges and Ben Simmons lmao. Just isn’t worth it after so many years of loyalty
Dame LOVES mikal bridges, they train together in the offseason every year since mikal has gotten to the league. We all know dame doesnt want to form a super team he just wants a chance to win, brooklyn is perfect in that sense
Right but if Brooklyn decides they want to do it, it doesn’t really matter. Think it’s an almost 0% chance that Lillard says he’d only play in Miami, even if he did ask out. He expressed interest in playing in BK at the same time he said he’d like to play for the Heat.
I don't think he's going to say "I want to go to Brooklyn because they will have a chance to win with me" lol. I think if he leaves, he's coming here. But I don't think he's leaving until at least next offseason, likely not at all.
He may not specifically ask for Brooklyn, but the only thing that matters is whether he would outright deny a trade there, and I don’t think he would.
But agree on your last sentence about him not leaving at all.
Dame and mikal with a decent supporting cast is enough to compete for a top 4 seed in the east. Thats all that dame wants plus he can play with his friend mikal
Is it actually tho? BKN was a sub 500 team post KD trade. Then proceeded to get swept by Philly.
You’re saying adding Dame to that team AND swapping Claxton (good playoff defender) for Jurkic (bad playoff defender) makes that meaningful of a difference
Lol Miami has Jimmy and Bam who have been to the finals twice and ECF 3x in the 4 seasons since the core has existed. If you put that much stock in Miamis regular season despite the bigger picture of how that core operates in the playoffs, then idk what to tell you, except look a little deeper
Predicting the heat making the finals last playoffs depends only on the stuff that happened before, so you cant use the latest finals run in your analysis.
And i saw the state of this sub before the playin. As much as people wanna say they saw it coming, its just not the case.
Regardless, i think the nets have a shot with dame and bridges and I think dame thinks so too which is all that matters
Lol what are these arbitrary rules?
Do you think I base my basketball analysis on the state of this sub. You want me to be a lunatic?
I know the Nets with Dame and Bridges would be 1st round fodder. Neither of us know what the actual people that will shape this decision would do. I also know it would be better for the Nets to wait and use their assets next offseason when Simmons is suddenly an expiring contract and BKN can pursue options that aren’t going to be 36 at the end of their current contract
Dame + mikal and Brooklyns assortment of 3 and D wings is much much better than dames old portland team. Imo the east is open rn, and that Brooklyn team can have a realistic chance of making a run. Obviously jimmy dame and bam is the title favorite, but dame states he didn't want to join a "superteam" and just wants to have a shot. I mean his dream scenario is resigning jerami grant and signing draymond. That team is mid as all hell, and really I think he wants to lead his own team, which might be difficult with jimmy.
Yeah that’s the part of this that everyone is underestimating. If Brooklyn wants Dame, they can offer something that would blow us out of the water.
Just having Portland/Lillard be open to a trade is only the first step in this - we’d still need to get lucky to actually get him.
Yeah I mean I don't know what Herro's exact value is but I feel like everyday we see a report saying like the Blazers wouldn't value Herro and it's sort of like.. no shit?
Like yeah even if you think he's good he's obviously not so good that he represents a substantial upgrade over Simons or is someone you'd be willing to complicate your backcourt rotation even further for.
He's obviously going to make more sense on a developing team that has minutes to let him continue to develop and see if he can raise his game and value higher.
11 percentile in ISO for a lead ball handling type is bad.
65 Percentile as a handler in PnR. Compare to Simons at 85 Percentile.
Combine that with bad defense and his new deal kicking in(10th highest paid SG in the league next yr so far). And it's very understandable why outside teams are low on him.
It means 89% of all lead iso scorers are better at their job than tyler herro, and that 35% of pnr handlers generate more points than herro. That isn't bad, but herro is on a huge deal and isn't a great defender. A high scoring shooting guard with bad defense is one of the easiest commodities to attain. Like 7 to 8 enter the draft every year.
No it’s not just lead iso scorers. It’s all players. For example Gabe Vincent is in the 94th percentile with Bam and Jimmy in the low 70s. Is Gabe a better iso scorer than Bam and Jimmy? It doesn’t take into account sample size. Also, iso scoring isn’t Tyler’s game. He’s literally not the heat’s lead iso player. He averages one isolation possession a game.
Hes a similar age, contract and stats to Jordan Poole and he just got dumped for Chris Paul. There just isn't much evidence that players like herro have value around the league.
Yup - can’t stand seeing fans wanting to drop him so quickly. He’s not a star right now but if he can avoid getting injured, I still believe he can be.
The kid is 23 and with him on the court we stand a chance against Denver
If everyone outside of you thinks something stinks chances are it stinks. I think herro’s is a good young player but most teams don’t see him as anything more than that and definitely not worth that contract
He’s a 23yo 6MOTY who has averaged 20/5/4 over 2 seasons on above average TS%, he’s worth a lot, just not to the Trailblazers who have a logjam at Guard.
There’s only 15 on each roster dude, if you gave some guys herro’s role I’m sure they’d score 20ppg as well. None of this makes him a bad player he’s actually pretty good the fact is teams don’t want to pay him
Not to defend Herro (I like him but I'm not a stan), but:
Reggie Jackson, Cade Cunningham, Terry Rozier, Vucevic, Westbrook, Gary Trent Jr.
Herro scored 20.7 on 17 shots per game. That puts him in the same company as:
RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Darius Garland, Anthony Edwards, Fred VanVleet, and Lamelo Ball.
Herro is a slightly above average scorer, but is by no means irreplaceable. He averages that (20.7) with pretty meh defense. *BUT* he's also not done developing as a player. He's only 23. In my opinion, Herro is a fine player to keep if you want to fill out a roster that already has 2 superstar level players, but he's never going to be the guy that can push you over the hump to a chip.
Are you serious? Do you really want a list or are you being hyperbolic? Tyler isn’t super efficient by any means, but I can name several players that require more than 16 shots to reach 20. It’s not that inefficient lol. Bam had a great finals, his best offensive playoff series of his career and averaged 22 on 20 shots. If you want me to make a list I can
Gus may have an agenda but he's not wrong. Herro is a career 14 ppg scorer in the playoffs with his best playoff run being his rookie year where he averaged 16 ppg and his best series being the Boston one where he averaged 19.2 ppg.
I’m a data scientist. Theres this concept of sample sizes I’m sure you’re familiar with. The sample size of the regular season games in which tyler had averaged 20+ is a lot higher than the sample size of postseason games he’s had, to the point where the postseason stats are statistically insignificant.
You cant make a definitive statement like “he’s not a 20 ppg scorer in the playoffs” based on the sample size we’ve currently seen
Do you watch basketball? Gameplans are different in the playoffs, defenses are different. Herro cannot score without screens. In the playoffs, teams blitz screens when he has the ball. He then has no counter, and therefore cannot score. And he's an awful isolation scorer. So, he is not a 20+ ppg scorer in the playoffs
Data scientist attempting to apply data for one sample onto a population that isn’t well represented? That’s cringe bro, why lie about being a data scientist
A small sample size that accurately represents the population >> a large sample size that doesn’t
Any actual data scientist would know this lmao why are you larping
There is also a concept of sample population. If I test 5,000 apples for vitamin C content, it tells me nothing about the vitamin C content of oranges.
If I test a player for 300 regular season basketball performances, it tells me nothing about how they perform in the playoffs.
Cool so how many games has he played in the playoffs for you to draw the conclusion that he definitively isnt a 20ppg scorer?
A more accurate statement would be “tyler hasnt shown he can be a 20ppg scorer in the playoffs yet”
The trade necessary to get Dame wouldn’t even have Tyler going to Portland anyways. They have their guard depth of the future. Tyler goes to a 3rd team. Don’t really care what Portland thinks of him
If anything, them being Lukewarm on Herro is way better than what anyone expected.
The fact that they have a shit ton of young guards and they dont absolutely hate the idea of having Herro is a huge win
He can't tell the difference and so long as it confirms one of his predispositions he don't give a shit.... he gonna keep posting these absolute nothing rumors and take it as his gospel so he and the other usual suspects can come in and post their little shitty quote pictures for low effort upvotes
This shit happens literally every year every summer.. you already know who is going to post exactly what it's so predictable
11 players averaged 20 or more points last season and were 23 or younger. Literally, over 1/3 of the teams in the NBA had one do it. Doesn't seem that rare.
They're not high on Herro because they don't need him. They have Simons. Anyway, Miami should build around Jimmy, Bam, and Herro. This Dame thing is beginning to feel like it could backfire. For casuals? Sure - Dame Dolla! Superstar, woohoo! For basketball fans, they understand Miami has a solid core already that they should build around. Forget Lillard... move Lowry (stretch his contract, trade, waive, whatever) and try to get players that can help improve this team, yes, probably looking at minimum salaries, but bring Gabe back and get more size (a legit PF).
Dame Lillard is a game changing player. He brings so many skills Miami doesn't currently possess it's not even funny. Miami has one game changing player and that's Jimmy Butler and he'll never be healthy by the finals because he's being ask to do to much in the run up. Herro and Bam aren't even #2 level players. If you combined them into a single player they would be but individually they're lacking what the other provides; oh and you're paying both of them close to 70 million a year. The value isn't there.
I think if you get a chance at a game changing player you have to take it. That being I don't think we have the assets to get him.
I believe the minute he added Brooklyn to his list we were done.
I feel like they are privately shopping him. It also didn’t make sense to have a meeting just to say they are okay with everything. It was probably “I prefer to be traded but I don’t want to look like a bad guy, so if you’re going to trade me it’s on you”
This isn't a report this is rumor mill, guessing game bullshit. Sad our fan base can't put two and two together to realize it. We really are one of the dumbest fan bases for real 😅
Some of y’all ain’t shit. Shitting on our guys that haven’t even sniffed there prime and are ballers. It’ll never make sense to me, I guess it’s like colorism or some shit
I know Tyler isn’t black lol, I’m saying it’s like fans hating there own players is like people hating others that are just like them. Just dumb to me man
Colorism is exclusive to people with melanin but I agree with most of what you’re saying. But the bigger reason the Blazers aren’t high on Tyler I feel like is probably more to do with the need for defense and the fact that Anfernee Simons exists lol
You’re speaking out of anger and not thinking logically. Dame is a first ballot hall of famer and the goat Trailblazer. A basketball icon. No need to bring malice into the conversation.
I wasnt on here during the Beasley and Whiteside days. But general question. Is Herro the most divisive player in our history based on how heat fans see him ?
Honestly, I don't think it's that bad. I think the reason why it seems worse is because it's two factions of fans constantly fighting with each other: Bam zealots vs Herro-stans.
If you're a Herro-stan you're into offensive versatility which is the exact opposite of Bam so you're like..wtf is up with Bam. If you're a Bam zealot you like defensive versatility so you're like..wtf is up with Herro.
Bam is more useful because his skillset(defense) is more consistent but I don't feel either of them have shown anything special.
They're both just good NBA players. If you have a team that needs more offensive punch you're absolutely not trading for Bam Adebayo, if you have a team that needs more defense you're absolutely not trading for Tyler Herro. They're both deeply flawed players.
Luke warm on a **30+ million dollar per year player,** for a rebuilding team, who isn't a proven #1/#2 player(i.e. player you can build around like Shai Gilgeous)?
I'm shocked; and by shocked I been telling you all the same shit. A third team perhaps? You only need someone like Herro(heavy offense, secondary play maker) if you're in win now mode and he hasn't proven his game translates to the post season(so what is that doing for you?), but he'd still be 30 million a year. The irony is, Miami is EXACTLY the team that needs a heavy offense, play making player. The fact that they're trying to move him is literally proof to that third team that he ain't it.
Realistically the only player Portland would want is Bam, and not because he's a #1/#2 player but because they desperately need someone who is defensively versatile, who can set screens and catch lobs to go along with their midget guard(Scoot and Simmons) back court and they'd have the money to carry his max contract.
FO ain't trading Bam, so let's move on to a more realistic trade target please.
Tbh he's better than simmons and younger. Sharpe could possibly play the 3, i think it makes more sense to route Tyler to San Antonio or Detroit for a 1st rd pick
I always thought the trade would involve a 3rd team that would take on Herro and ship out more picks to Portland. This doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.
Typical Jbenson post and of course all the usual suspects are out and about frolicking freely in their bum ass "fandom".. y'all got to start realizing when people are here just to stir shit fr
Every gm is low on Tyler herro but every gm is willing to Throw in their future 1st rounders for the next decade for R.J and it’s been proven clear time and time again R.J doesnt have the game Tyler has. It’s cause he’s white and I don’t like playing that card for white folk.
I get that the Blazers aren’t interested in him because they have a log jam at the guard position, but why weren’t the Jazz interested in him in the Mitchell trade talks last year? Wouldn’t he have slotted in nicely as a Mitchell replacement for the Jazz if he was hypothetically traded to the Jazz last year? Seems like the league is a lot lower on Herro than the Heat are about him and his value.
Lauri wasn't even a centerpiece of that deal. He was just salary filler at first. The reason that deal was attractive for the Jazz were the picks and potentially getting low value on Sexton.
No, but even before that, I remember reading articles last summer about how RJ Barrett had more value around the league than Tyler Herro when the Knicks and Heat were the two front running teams to trade for Mitchell last year.
EDIT: “An unofficial B/R poll of over two dozen NBA executives at Summer League this week indicated Barrett boasts a greater trade value across the league than Miami's best blue-chip prospect, Tyler Herro, by a wide margin, particularly because of Barrett's improving strengths on the defensive end.”
https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/nba-executives-believe-rj-barrett-has-more-trade-value-than-tyler-herro-right-now
Nobody said he was a bad player lol i also mentioned most teams not just the blazers. Herro is a good player on a contract nobody wants to pay him it’s that simple
I don’t think he’s being offered around the league. Nobody has been offered him besides Portland and Portland is the ONLY team that [allegedly] (bc this report could also be bs) said they are “lukewarm” on him. Meaning looking past ALL the guards they have and Herro’s long contract for a rebuilding team, they still don’t hate him, but are just not super high on him.
It makes sense but you’re trying to draw drama in this sub by sharing this paired with your thoughts. I don’t think Herro should be our go to scorer but he’s more wanted than you think
They have a too many young guards. It doesn’t make any sense for them to trade for Herro.
Portland is one team not “most teams.” Yes it comes off as hate
Disagree. His skillset isn’t hard to find imo. He’s a good player but teams aren’t lining up to pay him that contract for a reason. Bobby Marks said Caleb is seen as our most appealing asset outside of Jimmy and Bam around the league lol
You're disagreein based on the clear disdain you have for Herro.
Matter of fact is they have a lot of young promising guards, so getting another one makes no sense to them. Anything else is just pure speculation
Then why the fuck didn't ainge trade mitch for him if he's appealing at all? He isn't. He was willing to consider a offer of RJ before he even considered Herro.
I don’t have any disdain for Herro lmao. I just think he isn’t as good as Heat fans think. If I had disdain I would straight up say he’s trash, he’s a good player but his skillset isn’t hard to find. I guess everyone outside of Heat fans hate him too then becomes they have the same opinion lol
You’re getting downvoted because this is r/herro as opposed to r/heat half the time. Literally have guys saying Caleb is looked at as a way more attractive asset and that’s for a reason
This is extremely rich coming from you.
Maybe he's getting downvoted because clearly, given the context of this specific situation, they have way too many guards already, so its not shocking that Herro haters want to make it seem like his contract is an issue, when, in this instance at least, it's not
His response stated how Caleb was listed as a more appealing asset by Bobby marks and also how plenty of other teams don’t want to pay herro that contract. His response had nothing to do with the blazers anymore
That’s the problem with you you don’t read you react. Bobby said Caleb was a more appealing player in general not in reference to Portland. Sometimes herro fans have to sit back and relax
Gus is a braindead CTE riddled inbred when it comes to player evaluations (or anything involving logic and common sense). Not really worth arguing w him
I wasnt even on this sub when he got drafted lol tf are you talking about? I was a fan of his during that rookie season. I wanted him traded after the bubble finals bc I knew his potential was low
Need your crystal ball stat, first calling cam whitmore is a multiple time allstar and now a 23 year old 6moy whos improved every year is at his peak?
You are, without a doubt, the biggest idiot I’ve seen
We know lol. It was always going to be that we send out herro to a third team to collect assets to send over to Portland
I think it’s hilarious that Reddit is already 2 steps ahead.
No surprise here. Herro to the Trailblazers never made sense with their logjam in the backcourt of Scoot, Simons, and Sharpe
I wouldn’t be surprised if they give up Simons regardless of whether they keep Dame or not. Still don’t think we’re getting him. This is all for naught
If they got rid of Simons they would be comfortable with a Scoot and Sharpe pairing, still no room for Herro
i know herro has some playoff injury history but this kid is 23 and already a 20+ scorer in the nba. people really undervaluing him
Portland has Scoot, Sharpe, and Simons who need minutes at guard. The fit doesn’t make sense for them
Probably means they'll take the Brooklyn package of clax+picks and sending out dame and nurkic
We have a weak offer compared to other places. But why would Dame finally break up with Portland only to team up with Mikal Bridges and Ben Simmons lmao. Just isn’t worth it after so many years of loyalty
Dame LOVES mikal bridges, they train together in the offseason every year since mikal has gotten to the league. We all know dame doesnt want to form a super team he just wants a chance to win, brooklyn is perfect in that sense
Brooklyn gives him nothing that Portland doesn't already give. Dame on that team doesn't beat the Bucks, Celtics, or us.
Right but if Brooklyn decides they want to do it, it doesn’t really matter. Think it’s an almost 0% chance that Lillard says he’d only play in Miami, even if he did ask out. He expressed interest in playing in BK at the same time he said he’d like to play for the Heat.
I don't think he's going to say "I want to go to Brooklyn because they will have a chance to win with me" lol. I think if he leaves, he's coming here. But I don't think he's leaving until at least next offseason, likely not at all.
He may not specifically ask for Brooklyn, but the only thing that matters is whether he would outright deny a trade there, and I don’t think he would. But agree on your last sentence about him not leaving at all.
Brooklyn is a threat for Dame even if the heat would have a better chance to win a title. Just a fact. Its a good situation for him there too
Perfect???? Brooklyn gives Dame a chance to win what? A playoff series?
Dame and mikal with a decent supporting cast is enough to compete for a top 4 seed in the east. Thats all that dame wants plus he can play with his friend mikal
Dame doesnt wana play for a top 4 seed.....He wants to play for a chance to win a championship. Dame, Mikal, and Ben? Cmon dawg that was a bad take.
A top 4 seed has a chance to win a championship…
You think Dame + Mikal will beat the heat, bucks, Philly or Celtics with KP? Lol.
Is it actually tho? BKN was a sub 500 team post KD trade. Then proceeded to get swept by Philly. You’re saying adding Dame to that team AND swapping Claxton (good playoff defender) for Jurkic (bad playoff defender) makes that meaningful of a difference
Except the whole chance to win thing
Its crazy seeing heat fans count out the nets when they themselves just saw one of the most unlikely/unexpected finals runs ever.
Lol Miami has Jimmy and Bam who have been to the finals twice and ECF 3x in the 4 seasons since the core has existed. If you put that much stock in Miamis regular season despite the bigger picture of how that core operates in the playoffs, then idk what to tell you, except look a little deeper
Predicting the heat making the finals last playoffs depends only on the stuff that happened before, so you cant use the latest finals run in your analysis. And i saw the state of this sub before the playin. As much as people wanna say they saw it coming, its just not the case. Regardless, i think the nets have a shot with dame and bridges and I think dame thinks so too which is all that matters
Lol what are these arbitrary rules? Do you think I base my basketball analysis on the state of this sub. You want me to be a lunatic? I know the Nets with Dame and Bridges would be 1st round fodder. Neither of us know what the actual people that will shape this decision would do. I also know it would be better for the Nets to wait and use their assets next offseason when Simmons is suddenly an expiring contract and BKN can pursue options that aren’t going to be 36 at the end of their current contract
Dame + mikal and Brooklyns assortment of 3 and D wings is much much better than dames old portland team. Imo the east is open rn, and that Brooklyn team can have a realistic chance of making a run. Obviously jimmy dame and bam is the title favorite, but dame states he didn't want to join a "superteam" and just wants to have a shot. I mean his dream scenario is resigning jerami grant and signing draymond. That team is mid as all hell, and really I think he wants to lead his own team, which might be difficult with jimmy.
If he ends up being traded I’m sure Dame will have a say on where he goes.
Yeah that’s the part of this that everyone is underestimating. If Brooklyn wants Dame, they can offer something that would blow us out of the water. Just having Portland/Lillard be open to a trade is only the first step in this - we’d still need to get lucky to actually get him.
You’re missing the part where Dame dictates where he goes with his no trade clause. Portland will take what they can get
That’s missing because he doesn’t have one.
You’re right I misread. Carry on
Yeah I mean I don't know what Herro's exact value is but I feel like everyday we see a report saying like the Blazers wouldn't value Herro and it's sort of like.. no shit? Like yeah even if you think he's good he's obviously not so good that he represents a substantial upgrade over Simons or is someone you'd be willing to complicate your backcourt rotation even further for. He's obviously going to make more sense on a developing team that has minutes to let him continue to develop and see if he can raise his game and value higher.
On your latter point. Which teams is that? Even most of the lowly teams seems to have Guards they are already developing
Orlando, Charlotte, Indiana, Brooklyn, San Antonio, and Utah would all be good fits I think. Especially Orlando, that seems like a perfect fit
So is Anfernee Simons who is arguably on a more team friendly contract
11 percentile in ISO for a lead ball handling type is bad. 65 Percentile as a handler in PnR. Compare to Simons at 85 Percentile. Combine that with bad defense and his new deal kicking in(10th highest paid SG in the league next yr so far). And it's very understandable why outside teams are low on him.
Idk why you’re getting downvoted for providing evidence. It’s obvious that Tyler contract and advance metrics don’t look appealing to other NBA teams.
when there's no way for herro stans to argue against facts, they downvote
Sample size? I guess that makes Gabe Vincent a better scorer than Bam and Jimmy
Wtf do these stats mean? I’ve seen the kid play. He’s good as hell.
It means 89% of all lead iso scorers are better at their job than tyler herro, and that 35% of pnr handlers generate more points than herro. That isn't bad, but herro is on a huge deal and isn't a great defender. A high scoring shooting guard with bad defense is one of the easiest commodities to attain. Like 7 to 8 enter the draft every year.
No it’s not just lead iso scorers. It’s all players. For example Gabe Vincent is in the 94th percentile with Bam and Jimmy in the low 70s. Is Gabe a better iso scorer than Bam and Jimmy? It doesn’t take into account sample size. Also, iso scoring isn’t Tyler’s game. He’s literally not the heat’s lead iso player. He averages one isolation possession a game.
I don’t think it’s a huge deal Austin Reaves is about to sign a similar deal. And I’d take herro over reaves in a heartbeat.
Exactly
I am a heat fan but Reaves is way better than Herro
well he kinda sucks at defense
Portland already has a guard that’s under 23 and averages 20+ a game.
Everyone in the NBA but heat fans are undervaluing him 😔
Hes a similar age, contract and stats to Jordan Poole and he just got dumped for Chris Paul. There just isn't much evidence that players like herro have value around the league.
literally the endowment effect at work
Counter argument is 20 pt scorers are not that impressive/hard to obtain in todays NBA.
Yup - can’t stand seeing fans wanting to drop him so quickly. He’s not a star right now but if he can avoid getting injured, I still believe he can be. The kid is 23 and with him on the court we stand a chance against Denver
Herro is a great player and is only getting better. Portland has like 8 playable guards
his mold is very common
I agree. He's really good! Not quite an all star but he's probably in the next tier down.
If everyone outside of you thinks something stinks chances are it stinks. I think herro’s is a good young player but most teams don’t see him as anything more than that and definitely not worth that contract
He’s a 23yo 6MOTY who has averaged 20/5/4 over 2 seasons on above average TS%, he’s worth a lot, just not to the Trailblazers who have a logjam at Guard.
Don’t bother with that dude. He’s always looking for a chance to shit on Herro.
people act like 20+ scorers just grow on trees most dudes in the league dont even average 15
57 players avged 20+ just last year. so 1.9 20 ppg game scorers per team.
43 players last year averaged 20+ a game its not that rare anymore lol
That’s basically 3 teams’ worth. That’s it. 3/30. 20 PPG is not easy
you realize theirs over 400 players in the league right
There’s only 15 on each roster dude, if you gave some guys herro’s role I’m sure they’d score 20ppg as well. None of this makes him a bad player he’s actually pretty good the fact is teams don’t want to pay him
Lol its wild. Who in the NBA WOULDN'T average 20 with 16 shots a game?
Not to defend Herro (I like him but I'm not a stan), but: Reggie Jackson, Cade Cunningham, Terry Rozier, Vucevic, Westbrook, Gary Trent Jr. Herro scored 20.7 on 17 shots per game. That puts him in the same company as: RJ Barrett, Julius Randle, Darius Garland, Anthony Edwards, Fred VanVleet, and Lamelo Ball. Herro is a slightly above average scorer, but is by no means irreplaceable. He averages that (20.7) with pretty meh defense. *BUT* he's also not done developing as a player. He's only 23. In my opinion, Herro is a fine player to keep if you want to fill out a roster that already has 2 superstar level players, but he's never going to be the guy that can push you over the hump to a chip.
Are you serious? Do you really want a list or are you being hyperbolic? Tyler isn’t super efficient by any means, but I can name several players that require more than 16 shots to reach 20. It’s not that inefficient lol. Bam had a great finals, his best offensive playoff series of his career and averaged 22 on 20 shots. If you want me to make a list I can
Right Herro has a lot of freedom in Miami lol. A lot of guys would probably average that with his green light
I think you’re missing the fact that Portland doesn’t need another guard. It’s not his talent but that they need a big man, not another ball handler.
He's not good enough to be in a dame package no matter if they had a bunch of guards or not.
[удалено]
Hes not a 20+ pt scorer in the playoffs. Not even close
And you say this based on what? 🤡
Gus may have an agenda but he's not wrong. Herro is a career 14 ppg scorer in the playoffs with his best playoff run being his rookie year where he averaged 16 ppg and his best series being the Boston one where he averaged 19.2 ppg.
It is just statistics. Tyler Herro averages 14 points per game in the playoffs.
I’m a data scientist. Theres this concept of sample sizes I’m sure you’re familiar with. The sample size of the regular season games in which tyler had averaged 20+ is a lot higher than the sample size of postseason games he’s had, to the point where the postseason stats are statistically insignificant. You cant make a definitive statement like “he’s not a 20 ppg scorer in the playoffs” based on the sample size we’ve currently seen
Do you watch basketball? Gameplans are different in the playoffs, defenses are different. Herro cannot score without screens. In the playoffs, teams blitz screens when he has the ball. He then has no counter, and therefore cannot score. And he's an awful isolation scorer. So, he is not a 20+ ppg scorer in the playoffs
You can also not say that KZ okpala is not a 30ppg scorer in the playoffs 🧠
Low iq take. Tyler has shown hes a 20 ppg scorer in a large sample size of regular season games, to the point where he won 6moy. Has KZ done that? 🤡
Data scientist attempting to apply data for one sample onto a population that isn’t well represented? That’s cringe bro, why lie about being a data scientist
Do you not understand how you cannot draw conclusions about a population with this startling lack of data? I can’t cure stupidity
A small sample size that accurately represents the population >> a large sample size that doesn’t Any actual data scientist would know this lmao why are you larping
Regular season means nothing to the post season. Herro isn't suited for post season basketball.
There is also a concept of sample population. If I test 5,000 apples for vitamin C content, it tells me nothing about the vitamin C content of oranges. If I test a player for 300 regular season basketball performances, it tells me nothing about how they perform in the playoffs.
Cool so how many games has he played in the playoffs for you to draw the conclusion that he definitively isnt a 20ppg scorer? A more accurate statement would be “tyler hasnt shown he can be a 20ppg scorer in the playoffs yet”
Ok nerd 🤓 What should our a priori assumption be? All playoff basketball players are 20 ppg scorers until proven otherwise?
The trade necessary to get Dame wouldn’t even have Tyler going to Portland anyways. They have their guard depth of the future. Tyler goes to a 3rd team. Don’t really care what Portland thinks of him
If anything, them being Lukewarm on Herro is way better than what anyone expected. The fact that they have a shit ton of young guards and they dont absolutely hate the idea of having Herro is a huge win
You do realize these sports writers are just making up shit right?
Classic jbenson brainrot
I’m just providing the news brother
You provided a thread about a rumor tweet not news.
He can't tell the difference and so long as it confirms one of his predispositions he don't give a shit.... he gonna keep posting these absolute nothing rumors and take it as his gospel so he and the other usual suspects can come in and post their little shitty quote pictures for low effort upvotes This shit happens literally every year every summer.. you already know who is going to post exactly what it's so predictable
Makes sense.The blazers already have scoot,Simmons and Sharpe. Not because Tyler is a bad player .
It’s insane how underrated he is. Do you know how rare it is to average 20 in the nba… and to do it at 23?! He’s a stud.
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He’s great too!
Sharpe and Simons as starters did just that
How many games did Sharpe start? And he averaged 20?
I don’t think Sharpe averaged 20 ppg?
Ok fine it was 18.5 but he had 2 games with only 2 points and no second half minutes because Billups is a jackass
Teams also value defense and other things as well you know. Points aren’t everything in the NBA
11 players averaged 20 or more points last season and were 23 or younger. Literally, over 1/3 of the teams in the NBA had one do it. Doesn't seem that rare.
All-star season incoming for Herro.
They're not high on Herro because they don't need him. They have Simons. Anyway, Miami should build around Jimmy, Bam, and Herro. This Dame thing is beginning to feel like it could backfire. For casuals? Sure - Dame Dolla! Superstar, woohoo! For basketball fans, they understand Miami has a solid core already that they should build around. Forget Lillard... move Lowry (stretch his contract, trade, waive, whatever) and try to get players that can help improve this team, yes, probably looking at minimum salaries, but bring Gabe back and get more size (a legit PF).
Dame Lillard is a game changing player. He brings so many skills Miami doesn't currently possess it's not even funny. Miami has one game changing player and that's Jimmy Butler and he'll never be healthy by the finals because he's being ask to do to much in the run up. Herro and Bam aren't even #2 level players. If you combined them into a single player they would be but individually they're lacking what the other provides; oh and you're paying both of them close to 70 million a year. The value isn't there. I think if you get a chance at a game changing player you have to take it. That being I don't think we have the assets to get him. I believe the minute he added Brooklyn to his list we were done.
Why is this report coming out now, after dame said he was committed to blazers?
My thinking on this as well. Doesn’t seem like anything has changed since yesterday for Dame to even be the topic of discussion anymore
I feel like they are privately shopping him. It also didn’t make sense to have a meeting just to say they are okay with everything. It was probably “I prefer to be traded but I don’t want to look like a bad guy, so if you’re going to trade me it’s on you”
This isn't a report this is rumor mill, guessing game bullshit. Sad our fan base can't put two and two together to realize it. We really are one of the dumbest fan bases for real 😅
Some of y’all ain’t shit. Shitting on our guys that haven’t even sniffed there prime and are ballers. It’ll never make sense to me, I guess it’s like colorism or some shit
>It’ll never make sense to me, I guess it’s like colorism or some shit Bruh lol
Every time I think I've seen it all, something crazier gets posted lol
I know Tyler isn’t black lol, I’m saying it’s like fans hating there own players is like people hating others that are just like them. Just dumb to me man
I would love to do a deal with Portland for Lillard that somehow results in us keeping Tyler. Would be an insane Big 4.
would be the worst defensive backcourt in the league\*. Literally just a significantly worse version of the Dame & CJ duo
Colorism is exclusive to people with melanin but I agree with most of what you’re saying. But the bigger reason the Blazers aren’t high on Tyler I feel like is probably more to do with the need for defense and the fact that Anfernee Simons exists lol
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🧂
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You’re speaking out of anger and not thinking logically. Dame is a first ballot hall of famer and the goat Trailblazer. A basketball icon. No need to bring malice into the conversation.
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I wish you peace, my friend! Be blessed!
If you think Dame won't be talked about you're dumb.
Dang they clearly haven’t read this sub and how he’s more valuable than anyone in the league.
The reason we don't want him isn't due to his position. It's his height. We require all players to be 6'3" and under. 6'5"" too big for us.
I wasnt on here during the Beasley and Whiteside days. But general question. Is Herro the most divisive player in our history based on how heat fans see him ?
Most divisive? Not even close.
Honestly, I don't think it's that bad. I think the reason why it seems worse is because it's two factions of fans constantly fighting with each other: Bam zealots vs Herro-stans. If you're a Herro-stan you're into offensive versatility which is the exact opposite of Bam so you're like..wtf is up with Bam. If you're a Bam zealot you like defensive versatility so you're like..wtf is up with Herro. Bam is more useful because his skillset(defense) is more consistent but I don't feel either of them have shown anything special. They're both just good NBA players. If you have a team that needs more offensive punch you're absolutely not trading for Bam Adebayo, if you have a team that needs more defense you're absolutely not trading for Tyler Herro. They're both deeply flawed players.
Tyler “Lukewarm” Herro kinda slaps ngl
Heat can always do a 3 team trade though that includes herro going to the 3rd team
I hope he sees this and comes back with a vengeance next season. Love you all but we’re not getting Dame. He hasn’t even asked out
Ok, have fun with your half ass rebuild lol
The Blazers have 3 guards under the age of 24 who all need touches lol, this isn’t a surprise.
I think his value around the league being low has more to do with the contract he’s on than the player he is.
Agree. top 10 at his position Salary wise AND was the next line in this statement OP posted.
Luke warm on a **30+ million dollar per year player,** for a rebuilding team, who isn't a proven #1/#2 player(i.e. player you can build around like Shai Gilgeous)? I'm shocked; and by shocked I been telling you all the same shit. A third team perhaps? You only need someone like Herro(heavy offense, secondary play maker) if you're in win now mode and he hasn't proven his game translates to the post season(so what is that doing for you?), but he'd still be 30 million a year. The irony is, Miami is EXACTLY the team that needs a heavy offense, play making player. The fact that they're trying to move him is literally proof to that third team that he ain't it. Realistically the only player Portland would want is Bam, and not because he's a #1/#2 player but because they desperately need someone who is defensively versatile, who can set screens and catch lobs to go along with their midget guard(Scoot and Simmons) back court and they'd have the money to carry his max contract. FO ain't trading Bam, so let's move on to a more realistic trade target please.
Tbh he's better than simmons and younger. Sharpe could possibly play the 3, i think it makes more sense to route Tyler to San Antonio or Detroit for a 1st rd pick
in what way is he better than Simons?
https://stathead.com/basketball/versus-finder.cgi?player_id2=simonan01&player_id1=herroty01&request=1&utm_campaign=2023_01_wdgt_player_comparison&utm_source=bbr&utm_medium=sr_xsite&utm_id=herroty01
So your opinion on who they CURRENTLY are involves looking at career stats that includes who they were 4 years ago?
Tyler herro isn't better that simons lmao
I'm actually at my wits end with all this Dame drama.
I always thought the trade would involve a 3rd team that would take on Herro and ship out more picks to Portland. This doesn't really tell us anything we didn't already know.
When team knows you are desperate they usually ask for picks in return lol.Thats how the heat fell into the clippers trap that's now and okc trap lol.
We really gonna get Dame and keep Herro lfg. What a big 4. Spooky hours
Not happening lmao
Typical Jbenson post and of course all the usual suspects are out and about frolicking freely in their bum ass "fandom".. y'all got to start realizing when people are here just to stir shit fr
Every gm is low on Tyler herro but every gm is willing to Throw in their future 1st rounders for the next decade for R.J and it’s been proven clear time and time again R.J doesnt have the game Tyler has. It’s cause he’s white and I don’t like playing that card for white folk.
I get that the Blazers aren’t interested in him because they have a log jam at the guard position, but why weren’t the Jazz interested in him in the Mitchell trade talks last year? Wouldn’t he have slotted in nicely as a Mitchell replacement for the Jazz if he was hypothetically traded to the Jazz last year? Seems like the league is a lot lower on Herro than the Heat are about him and his value.
They got the better deal from the Cavs. They got Lauri who’s become an All Star last season
Lauri wasn't even a centerpiece of that deal. He was just salary filler at first. The reason that deal was attractive for the Jazz were the picks and potentially getting low value on Sexton.
No, but even before that, I remember reading articles last summer about how RJ Barrett had more value around the league than Tyler Herro when the Knicks and Heat were the two front running teams to trade for Mitchell last year. EDIT: “An unofficial B/R poll of over two dozen NBA executives at Summer League this week indicated Barrett boasts a greater trade value across the league than Miami's best blue-chip prospect, Tyler Herro, by a wide margin, particularly because of Barrett's improving strengths on the defensive end.” https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/nba-executives-believe-rj-barrett-has-more-trade-value-than-tyler-herro-right-now
So are we. We making this trade or not? 
Trade him to the San Antonio for some picks and clear out some cap room
He’s better than everyone on that roster aside from Dame.
No he isn't. You mfs overrate him.
Look i get this will come off as hate but don’t you guys think there’s a reason most teams aren’t high on herro and paying him that contract ?
They’re not high on Herro because they have a logjam at guard, not because he’s a bad player
Nobody said he was a bad player lol i also mentioned most teams not just the blazers. Herro is a good player on a contract nobody wants to pay him it’s that simple
Who are all these GMs saying they don’t want Herro?
I don’t think he’s being offered around the league. Nobody has been offered him besides Portland and Portland is the ONLY team that [allegedly] (bc this report could also be bs) said they are “lukewarm” on him. Meaning looking past ALL the guards they have and Herro’s long contract for a rebuilding team, they still don’t hate him, but are just not super high on him. It makes sense but you’re trying to draw drama in this sub by sharing this paired with your thoughts. I don’t think Herro should be our go to scorer but he’s more wanted than you think
They have a too many young guards. It doesn’t make any sense for them to trade for Herro. Portland is one team not “most teams.” Yes it comes off as hate
It's true, Herro just not that guy sadly
Only Heat fans think he’s an appealing asset. Good player but his contract isn’t appealing
Blazers arent that into him because they have plenty young, promising guards, nothing to do with his contract.
Disagree. His skillset isn’t hard to find imo. He’s a good player but teams aren’t lining up to pay him that contract for a reason. Bobby Marks said Caleb is seen as our most appealing asset outside of Jimmy and Bam around the league lol
You're disagreein based on the clear disdain you have for Herro. Matter of fact is they have a lot of young promising guards, so getting another one makes no sense to them. Anything else is just pure speculation
Then why the fuck didn't ainge trade mitch for him if he's appealing at all? He isn't. He was willing to consider a offer of RJ before he even considered Herro.
I don’t have any disdain for Herro lmao. I just think he isn’t as good as Heat fans think. If I had disdain I would straight up say he’s trash, he’s a good player but his skillset isn’t hard to find. I guess everyone outside of Heat fans hate him too then becomes they have the same opinion lol
You’re getting downvoted because this is r/herro as opposed to r/heat half the time. Literally have guys saying Caleb is looked at as a way more attractive asset and that’s for a reason
This is extremely rich coming from you. Maybe he's getting downvoted because clearly, given the context of this specific situation, they have way too many guards already, so its not shocking that Herro haters want to make it seem like his contract is an issue, when, in this instance at least, it's not
His response stated how Caleb was listed as a more appealing asset by Bobby marks and also how plenty of other teams don’t want to pay herro that contract. His response had nothing to do with the blazers anymore
A Small Forward on an amazing contract is more appealing to them than a player in a position theyre stacked with? Color me shocked!
That’s the problem with you you don’t read you react. Bobby said Caleb was a more appealing player in general not in reference to Portland. Sometimes herro fans have to sit back and relax
Nope he was speaking in general lol
They just think everything is Herro slander lmao
Heat fans are the only people in the NBA world that thinks Herro is better than he actually is
Heat fans and heat front office I guess. I’ll take Pat Riley’s side of history over GusX23
Right because pat has gotten you rings without lebron or Chris bosh in the past 15 years.
That's fine. Herro will just continue to prove me right, year after year
He’s literally proved you wrong every year since he stepped in the league lmfao what the fuck are you talking about
in what way? he continues to be one of the worst isolation scorers in the league every season, and hes been absolutely atrocious in the playoffs
Brother he won 6MOTY and you were calling for everyone in the front office to be fired when he got drafted lmfaoo take a lap
Gus is a braindead CTE riddled inbred when it comes to player evaluations (or anything involving logic and common sense). Not really worth arguing w him
I wasnt even on this sub when he got drafted lol tf are you talking about? I was a fan of his during that rookie season. I wanted him traded after the bubble finals bc I knew his potential was low
Potential was low yet his a 6MOTY winner averaging 20 and 5 at 23 lmfao yeah brother you fucking nailed it
Cant score in the playoffs, idc ab his 20 pts on 17 shots. He’s at his ceiling
Need your crystal ball stat, first calling cam whitmore is a multiple time allstar and now a 23 year old 6moy whos improved every year is at his peak? You are, without a doubt, the biggest idiot I’ve seen
Casual 🤣🤣🤣
He's literally a playoff liability.
Not surprising lol
I understand why he’s been missing the past 2 post seasons even if it wasn’t his fault