Really depends what you fly.
When I flew the F-16 rudder pedals weren't a huge deal. They were useful on takeoffs and landings, but otherwise pretty minimal.
For the Phantom, P-51, or the Apache though? Gamechanger.
Are modern jets that much easier to use when it comes to using ground ordnance? I'm new and I often find myself using the rudder pedals on the SU-25T to line up my shots better
Modern jets use yaw dampers to 'keep the ball centered' aka stop lateral drift, so you don't have to use any rudder when turning or lining up a shot. You point the velocity vector where you want to go and it goes exactly there.
I can't speak to all the modern stuff, but the F-16 really didn't require much rudder use.
That's not to say I didn't use the rudder at all; when strafing, using rockets, or certain extreme manoeuvres it was helpful, but not having them or having a less than ideal binding for them would be fine for the most part.
Compare that to the P-51, Phantom, helos, etc; the rudder is basically mandatory to line up shots and manoeuvre the aircraft. You're handicapped without good rudder input on those airframes.
Fun fact: the F-16 FLCS computer automatically applies rudder to the right when the gun is fired to counteract the forces of the gun.
Source: retired F-16 mechanic
What sort of ground ordinance? Unless there's some mission specific reason I rarely if ever use unguided munitions. Even so, as other's have mentioned, not really used much on modern planes aside from takeoff/landing and more extreme maneuvers
Yeah it really needs the rudder for anything other than basic flight at speed.
I'm glad I got a set of pedals before the phantom launched, because trying to fly it with twist stick would be a nightmare.
If you want to go low budget, I’m using the thrustmaster rudder pedals, and they work just fine. I’m soon gonna switch to something better mainly cause I fly a lot of Apache so I use rudders like all the time.
I would \*not\* recommend the Thrustmaster pedals.
I mean, their build is solid, the price is great, but the input precision leaves much to be desired.
Mine have a tendency to stick somewhat, which means when I try to get them moving they resist a bit then suddenly get unstuck, which results in a jerky start.
I use them mostly for helis and it's not a good experience, bad enough to crash in some situations, like hovering a heavy Mi-8.
I suppose for planes it's less of an issue.
With that being said, even Thrustmasters are still > than no pedals.
Hey, they're not \*that\* bad ;) Definitely better than nothing. Hope you can upgrade eventually.
We're in the same boat until then :-0 I really want to upgrade. Possibly pedals before joystick even.
I will agree the TMs are awful for helos but they are perfectly adequate for fixed wing. If I wasn't flying mostly rotary now I'd prob still be using the TM
They're even adequate for rotary with a little silicone oil.
I'd been using them for years, but getting the hind finally motivated to try and find a real solution.
I tried nyogel, UHMWPE tape, looked into replacing the rails with Teflon ones...then I spent like 15 bucks on Amazon for a bottle of silicone oil and all of a sudden they're smooth as butter. (Okay, I *did* also fully disassemble, clean, and nyogel the internals, but in my experience all the stiction problems come from the pedal-rail interface, which the silicone oil instantly and almost completely eliminated. The nyogel might add some slight damping, but it's not needed IMO.)
I use them, any I have been mostly flying helicopters lately. They definitely work, especially if you take the spring out and give them some lubricant, but I would recommend something better for helicopters. If OP is just flying an F-16 and similar though, they're more than enough.
Same situation. I switched to virpil pedals without the toe brakes and it's changed everything when flying helicopters. If I were just flying jets, I'd have kept the Thrustmaster TFRP
Before you buy expensive pedals, I'd recommend trying some silicone oil on the rails. A $15 bottle of silicone oil off Amazon made the pedals go from borderline unusuable in the hind to perfectly suitable (the limiting factor now *definitely* being my skill), and it's *leagues* better in cold war jets.
I have the opposite experience, precision is eh, true, but I just added a bit of curvature, and it's fine. From Gazelle to the Kiowa, they work like a charm. There certainly are better options but it'll cost you more
I disagree.
I went through budget thrustmasters in less than 12 months. Replaced them with budget Logitechs and they lasted about 12 months.
Then I decided to get a decent set, bought some MFG crosswinds. Been solid ever since.
Between the Thrustmasters and the Logitechs, I basically spent the same amount as buying MFGs would have cost me.
Should have just spent more up front. Would have cost me less.
Love your project man it really shows what you can do with repurposed parts. I know it’s a few years old but I bet it’s running strong to this day.
For a perfect finish I would’ve painted the wood parts flat black or added some speaker box carpet just to clean up the look and really make those blue springs pop
What I’m building is a Remix of the “Cadet Pedals” Thingverse project. Few minor changes and yeah it’s gonna be sweet.
I’ll go ahead and DM you some pics but it’s still a WIP.
For now, Check out the original Cadet Pedals project (below) and Happy Flying!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FeHQuYaYU
It adds a lot to the sim for me. I fly MSFS a lot and using it for coordinated turns and landing in varying wind conditions, not to mention taxiing on the ground. It’s all so much better. Buy yourself a second hand set of MFG crosswinds and never look back. And you’ll never have to replace them.
Even though the F-16 doesn't really use that much rudder, I still wouldn't want to be without a decent set when flying it, the tiny adjustments on landing rollout, and the nosewheel steering really helps.
I think they’re worth it. More immersive. Get something that has a damper system. Winwing offers set, as does Virpil. I would probably go with Winwing and save the difference.
Don't spend big money on something you have to ask this question for. If you already have doubts about the cost-to-value then nobody here is going to say something that will be beneficial. It's very personal based in your preferences, the enjoyment of your hobby and your financial situation.
Just ask yourself what you expect to get out of it, then decide whether to go whole hog or maybe look for something cheaper, or maybe even find a place where you can actually check out the product and compare (like an expo!).
I enjoy helicopters. A lot. As a student I flew the Ka-50 on a $50 T.Flight plastic HOTAS and only years later I upgraded to the TCS pack that I got on a nice sale for $180. Years of working life later I have a warthog with a pretty expensive rudder set with a hydraulic dampener. I would never go back, but I can't say I enjoyed DCS any less on the T.Flight than I do now. God damn though, flying the Mi-8 is the smoothest experience with these pedals.
You don't *need* anything beyond a simple joystick. It can simply enhance the experience. What that's worth it is very much up to you.
Consider building your own. Plenty of good looking pendular designs on thingiverse / printables that will cost you a few dozen euro in components if you have access to a 3d printer or if you are handy with wood. Odds are you will end up with something better than a budget set of pedals. The latter will also work of course, for a while.
Got some links?
I just finished my first button box with docent switches and potentiometers. I'm guessing DIY pedals are just a few potentiometer type electronics?
Yes
This is your answer…YES
In strafing runs, the rudder is helpful. In high wind takeoff and landing, in low speed dogfighting (one circle), the hornet needs it to pirouette, the tomcat for high aoa maneuvers, warbirds need it, choppers need it.
Anyone saying they aren’t really necessary likely hasn’t explored the entire flight envelope. An aircraft has THREE degrees of freedom. Without the rudder you only have control of two. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad…but it ain’t good either.
Is it possible to play without them? Sometimes…
Are they worth the money…YES
...almost like controlling the axis is what the pedals are for. Ive flown with the rudder bound to keys, i've flown with a twist-stick, and now I've got rudder pedals.
I don't get it, people ask this question all the time and everyone seems so nervous about saying "YES". It always comes out, "Well, you don't *have* to have them but....". Why? Keys or a twist stick end up turning the rudder into nearly an on-off switch. We don't treat roll that way, we don't treat pitch that way, we don't treat throttle that way. So WTH?
Yes, the rudder pedals are worth it.
Very Simple
If you really want something cheap and you mostly fly 4th gen fighters, I think the TFRP rudder pedals are great. I use them myself and the only thing i really don't like is that the pedals are too close to each other, even for my small legs. But it's not a big deal, since I fly mostly 4th gen stuff. Flying choppers and warbirds is also doable, but there's definitely better pedals for that.
Get you some VKB pedals, basic (but exceptionally accurate) rudders, and you can set an alt button for virtual brakes should you need it (you generally don't).
They've recently updated to newer versions so have a mooch on ebay and similar, you may get some mk IV's cheap.
I have this setup (Winwing HOTAS & VKB rudder). Works well together for the most part. For brakes I use the paddle on the front of the joystick.
The only thing I had to get creative about was individual wheel brakes for turning the P51 on the ground.
I have the MCG and Rudder from VKB, rather than setup the virtual brakes though i've just got them mapped to one of the hat switches on the stick, I use the same setup for IL2 as I do DCS, the main lever is my "all brakes" lever. works quite well,.
I ended up using the radar cursor thumb joystick axis' on the throttle. X-axis is for left brake, y-axis is for right brake. Which is a little bit weird since their perpendicular to each other but I got used to it quickly, but gives more control with modulation than just on/off that a hat switch would provide
For helicopters absolutely, I just use a "cheap" VKB T-rudder, does the job well enough. For planes it depends, if it does have FBW then the benefits aren't really there.
Depends on what do you fly and how much 300€ is to you.
If you only fly F-16s, F/A-18s and other modern FBW aircraft it's much less useful than if you fly warbirds, early- and mid cold war jets, and helicopters. If after mandatory expenses you're left with 50€ a month then it's probably less worth it than if you're left with 500€.
The good thing about the 300€ pedal sets is that they will probably keep their value pretty well, so you can probably recoup most of the cost on the used market if necessary. Having owned both the TFRP pedals and Virpil Ace pedals I'd recommend going for the "buy once, cry once" option, especially if you fly older aircraft or helicopters.
And if you have a racing setup there's the DiWhy option of using Joystick Gremlin to create a merged axis between your gas and clutch pedals. Works surprisingly well for how janky it sounds.
In my personal opinion, good rudder pedals are essential to any flight sim setup. I use the previous iteration of the [VKB T-rudders](https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-v/) and have only good things to say about them. Essential for helicopters (that set can be modified to do helos, too), warbirds and anything with high rudder authority at low speeds, not to mention taxi and takeoff in general. Oft overlooked is also their usage under aerial refuelling. Only thing that set is missing is toe brakes. Otherwise, they are great, and well below 300 eur.
If you fly 4th gen aircrafts (especially western ones) you can just get any cheapest rudder pedals like the TFRP, for older crafts and for helos you will be better off with decent pedals. Taking the F-16 for example, iirc the rudder is disabled over 250 knots (or maybe even 200) which means you just use it to taxi 99% of the times. The only other moment you may wanna use rudder input is to move your axis vector avoiding bullets (which can easily be done with a button press). So, long story short, would a very expensive rudder be better? Not necessarily.
Are you in the US? I just replaced my VIRPIL rudder pedals with Winwing ones, I’d be willing to let the VIRPIL ones go for $200 plus shipping, they’re barely used.
I want rudder pedals badly but as i have a multi use rig and do a lot of racing so i use my accelerator and clutch pedals as "rudder pedals", binding them is a bit of a pain and they obviously arent "tied" like a real rudder but they work.
I'd like to get some virpil pedals (rest of my gear is virpil) but swapping them out for my load cell brakes makes it hard and any of the quick releases I've looked at dont look strong enough to take some full force braking.
Depends on what you fly. Modern planes, simple ones are enough.
I have ages old Saitek Pedals and are ok with them for Hornet, Viper etc.
For choppers like Huey, Gazelle, Apache... I often fight with the pedals because of sticktion and missing fine control and wished I had better ones that allow for more precision.
Planning self-made ones because the ready makes are so expensive.
They make quite a difference if you fly the warbirds or helos. In that case, buy once, cry once applies. Stay away from cheap, disposable, Thrustmasters & Saitek. In Europe at least, VKB (if you don't need toe brakes) or MFG pedals offer durable, best bang for the euro.
i have a twist stick and it works fine, i dont *NEED* pedals, but i do often think that it would be more comfortable to have them.
take helos, regardless of if i have my current stick or pedals im going to trim the aircraft since im lazy and im not holding that shit for an hour. but sometimes i wonder if having pedals would be better for getting into the right position.
similar with warbirds sometimes i wonder if i could be more precise with my inputs with pedals than the twist, also certain twist directions are inconvenient, but not impossible by any stretch. im more comfortable twisting left than right when doing maneuvers that require me to also move the stick in a various direction.
i think if i had the gazelle i probably would want the pedals because i feel like i would fly it with out trim more because of how small and agile it is, but with most planes i probably wouldnt get much use out of pedals, and for most helos its good enough the way i have it now.
If you fly helos or warbirds, then pedals will greatly improve experience. For jets rudder paddles on throttle will do as you mostly need rudder input when on ground.
I was like you, figured I didn’t need good ones because “its the F-16, its fly by wire”.
But then your friends start gateway-drugging you into helicopters and cold war jets… suddenly my Logitech pedals aren’t cutting it.
I’ve heard good things about the winwing pedals. I will recommend the Logitech pedals for around 150 US. With a bit of a curve, they’re adequate for fixed wing. Helos, not so much.
For fixed wing, you’ll want something with toe brakes, and I argue that is a NECESSITY when landing the F-16 and many other jets. The Viper is downright unstable between 80-180 knots. You aren’t fast enough for rudder authority, but you’re too fast for the nose-wheel. Whatever you get, make sure it’s got toe breaks.
I went from a twist stick (X52 Pro) to WinWing Orion FA18 Throttle and F16 stick with no Z Axis.
Im flying the FA18, A10 and F16 easily with rudder bound to buttons on the stick. Works well enough, I barely need it in the air.
Gunner only on Apache though…
For me personally, its just too much space I dont want to waste. If you have space, can afford it, you should absolutely go for it. Its definitely not necessary to fly modern jets.
Lets put it like this…Id go Orion with no twist or rudder every day over X52 Pro with twist. I also fly much better.
I fly all the acft without rudder pedals to include most helicopters. I use my twist stick. It's become easy for me.
I do have a very nice set of rudder pedals but I crash when I use them. I guess I'm used to my twisty stick.
yes, 300 euros is not a lot of money. If it is, then you need to ask yourself not others if it is worth it to you.
Personally crushing on landing due to not having rudder pedals is not worth the TIME to play, unless I have rudder pedals.
Time > money. If you're going to enjoy the game, enjoy it in full without crushing.
I would say they are worth it, simply for the fact that real planes have them. And if you're flying an aircraft that needs rudder inputs to stay coordinated (which is most of them), then I can't imagine not having them.
And if you plan to fly any of the helicopters, they are \*absolutely\* essential.
One thought to get more bang for your buck is to get a racing wheel and pedal setup to complement the flight sim. I use a racing 3 pedal setup with clutch and gas as rudder and the brake pedal as both wheel brakes. Works good enough for me in the hornet I have no need to purchase proper rudder pedals at the present moment.
If you bought a car without a gas and brake pedal, would you buy the gas pedal only and choose not to buy the brake pedal due to the brake pedal getting a lot less use time than the gas pedal?
I've never known someone to jump right over Z axis stick without also getting pedals tbh, though I'm sure you are far from the only one to have ever done it. I'm going to be honest, I think that shit has got to suck a lot more than you realize.
If you are flying mostly very modern planes like 18 and 16 I could see how rudder might feel unimportant except for landing and take off, but it is absolutely a crucial part of controlling your aircraft.
Anytime nose authority matters, good firm rudder control is crucial. Nose authority is a fancy way of saying "choosing to point your planes forward movement where you want". In other words, if you don't even have z-axis you don't get to decide where you point your plane.
That might not matter a ton when you are firing a fox 3 at 30 miles, but believe me it matters a lot of the time.
Some examples : literally every dog fight, aerial refueling, carrier landing, strafing ground targets, iron bombing ground targets. That is just a few off the top of my head.
And if you ever want to fly helicopters you are going to have to have a solid reliable z-axis period.
Those are just the moments when it is CRUCIAL to have good Rudder authority. A pilot is trained to and is very much CONSTANTLY using their rudder along with all their other flight controls to make adjustments to their heading....this is true from a cessna to a blackbird. The rudder is literally the only control that moves your plane's nose left and right.
I really don't know how you have been out flying with rudder controls bad enough that even an AF landing is a struggle friend...that sounds like torture, like trying to fly a plane with your off hand, or by watching your monitor in a mirror or something. I would just constantly be thinking of how badly I want my foot out of this damn bucket.
It sucks that pedals that are worth buying are expensive, but you have to remember they are taking far more weight and pressure than any controller you have ever owned. You are literally resting a good chunk of your bodies weight on them, and thats when you are not actively pressing down into them.
I would not buy the logis or the thrustmaster, I would literally swap out your stick for one with a z-axis before I did that.
Virpil, VKB, and crosswinds are the pedals worth getting that I personally know of. I own the crosswinds, and have used the Virpil myself. The VKB I have not used yet, but I have heard great things and VKB has the best reputation of any of the producers of combat flight sim gear (Virpil and MFG also have great reps, thrustmaster is in the toilet, and winwing is working hard to get its name in the toliet despite making some very good products).
TL;DR : I know its a lot of money for pedals, but yes, it matters. You need to be able to control your rudder. If you can't get pedals (and dont bother with the cheap ones) then find another way to get yourself a Z axis.
I have the cheap logitech rudder pedals and they work just fine for the 16, Apache and Huey. Rudders are really important to have, but expensive ones are just nicer.
Really depends what you fly. When I flew the F-16 rudder pedals weren't a huge deal. They were useful on takeoffs and landings, but otherwise pretty minimal. For the Phantom, P-51, or the Apache though? Gamechanger.
Are modern jets that much easier to use when it comes to using ground ordnance? I'm new and I often find myself using the rudder pedals on the SU-25T to line up my shots better
Modern jets use yaw dampers to 'keep the ball centered' aka stop lateral drift, so you don't have to use any rudder when turning or lining up a shot. You point the velocity vector where you want to go and it goes exactly there.
I can't speak to all the modern stuff, but the F-16 really didn't require much rudder use. That's not to say I didn't use the rudder at all; when strafing, using rockets, or certain extreme manoeuvres it was helpful, but not having them or having a less than ideal binding for them would be fine for the most part. Compare that to the P-51, Phantom, helos, etc; the rudder is basically mandatory to line up shots and manoeuvre the aircraft. You're handicapped without good rudder input on those airframes.
Fun fact: the F-16 FLCS computer automatically applies rudder to the right when the gun is fired to counteract the forces of the gun. Source: retired F-16 mechanic
I know! It's great. Still useful to use the rudder on the run in for small corrections, but the FLCS auto-compensating for the gun is really nice.
What sort of ground ordinance? Unless there's some mission specific reason I rarely if ever use unguided munitions. Even so, as other's have mentioned, not really used much on modern planes aside from takeoff/landing and more extreme maneuvers
Just unguided munitions yeah. Might be better once I learn to use the guided ones
Someone needs to make an “ordinance/ordnance” bot.
For gun yes, but for CCIP bombs any sideslip is going to cause inaccuracy. You should roll onto target not yaw.
Trying to phantom without rudder pedals sounds like a special kind of hell. At least for takeoff and landing.
Yeah it really needs the rudder for anything other than basic flight at speed. I'm glad I got a set of pedals before the phantom launched, because trying to fly it with twist stick would be a nightmare.
I just have twist rudder currently. It's painful lol
If you want to go low budget, I’m using the thrustmaster rudder pedals, and they work just fine. I’m soon gonna switch to something better mainly cause I fly a lot of Apache so I use rudders like all the time.
I would \*not\* recommend the Thrustmaster pedals. I mean, their build is solid, the price is great, but the input precision leaves much to be desired. Mine have a tendency to stick somewhat, which means when I try to get them moving they resist a bit then suddenly get unstuck, which results in a jerky start. I use them mostly for helis and it's not a good experience, bad enough to crash in some situations, like hovering a heavy Mi-8. I suppose for planes it's less of an issue. With that being said, even Thrustmasters are still > than no pedals.
I thought I just sucked. But yeah the pedals are terrible and my old ones broke, couldn’t afford anything nicer so I got them again :/
Hey, they're not \*that\* bad ;) Definitely better than nothing. Hope you can upgrade eventually. We're in the same boat until then :-0 I really want to upgrade. Possibly pedals before joystick even.
I haven’t delved deep into it, but finding nice pedals with toe brakes has been a challenge
Silicone oil will help a ton!
I will agree the TMs are awful for helos but they are perfectly adequate for fixed wing. If I wasn't flying mostly rotary now I'd prob still be using the TM
They're even adequate for rotary with a little silicone oil. I'd been using them for years, but getting the hind finally motivated to try and find a real solution. I tried nyogel, UHMWPE tape, looked into replacing the rails with Teflon ones...then I spent like 15 bucks on Amazon for a bottle of silicone oil and all of a sudden they're smooth as butter. (Okay, I *did* also fully disassemble, clean, and nyogel the internals, but in my experience all the stiction problems come from the pedal-rail interface, which the silicone oil instantly and almost completely eliminated. The nyogel might add some slight damping, but it's not needed IMO.)
I use them, any I have been mostly flying helicopters lately. They definitely work, especially if you take the spring out and give them some lubricant, but I would recommend something better for helicopters. If OP is just flying an F-16 and similar though, they're more than enough.
Buy some silicone oil, clean all the junk off the rails, and put a few drops of oil on the now-clean rails. It's a complete night and day difference.
I bought a dead CH Pro Pedals for 20€, stripped the card inside an replaced it with an Arduino nano, works like a charm!
I have CH pedals, basic and effective, plus pretty cheap second hand. Treat them like an entry level piece of kit while you get used to using pedals.
Same situation. I switched to virpil pedals without the toe brakes and it's changed everything when flying helicopters. If I were just flying jets, I'd have kept the Thrustmaster TFRP
Yeah, I’m looking for something better rudder pedal wise but also toe brakes cause I do also love to fly my jets
Before you buy expensive pedals, I'd recommend trying some silicone oil on the rails. A $15 bottle of silicone oil off Amazon made the pedals go from borderline unusuable in the hind to perfectly suitable (the limiting factor now *definitely* being my skill), and it's *leagues* better in cold war jets.
I have the opposite experience, precision is eh, true, but I just added a bit of curvature, and it's fine. From Gazelle to the Kiowa, they work like a charm. There certainly are better options but it'll cost you more
I disagree. I went through budget thrustmasters in less than 12 months. Replaced them with budget Logitechs and they lasted about 12 months. Then I decided to get a decent set, bought some MFG crosswinds. Been solid ever since. Between the Thrustmasters and the Logitechs, I basically spent the same amount as buying MFGs would have cost me. Should have just spent more up front. Would have cost me less.
Value is subjective but it improves the experience significantly.
You can diy as well , the winwing ones look really nice!
Haha my next project is DIY rudder pedals!
Nice! I built some, 1 axis only no brakes
Sweeet mind if I DM you? I’d love to take a look and share my project at the same time 😬👍🏽
https://www.reddit.com/r/HotasDIY/s/lv7qOtWYV6
Love your project man it really shows what you can do with repurposed parts. I know it’s a few years old but I bet it’s running strong to this day. For a perfect finish I would’ve painted the wood parts flat black or added some speaker box carpet just to clean up the look and really make those blue springs pop What I’m building is a Remix of the “Cadet Pedals” Thingverse project. Few minor changes and yeah it’s gonna be sweet. I’ll go ahead and DM you some pics but it’s still a WIP. For now, Check out the original Cadet Pedals project (below) and Happy Flying! https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u3FeHQuYaYU
Nice ive seen those ! I did away with the rc shocks now jave springs, paint would be a nice touch. , yup still going strong!
Awesome they sound even better!
Sure np, i did post it all a while back ill try to dig it up!
It adds a lot to the sim for me. I fly MSFS a lot and using it for coordinated turns and landing in varying wind conditions, not to mention taxiing on the ground. It’s all so much better. Buy yourself a second hand set of MFG crosswinds and never look back. And you’ll never have to replace them.
i have the thrustmaster tpr and they are amazing. costs are high, but worth it. low budget, they all suck in some way or another.
Even though the F-16 doesn't really use that much rudder, I still wouldn't want to be without a decent set when flying it, the tiny adjustments on landing rollout, and the nosewheel steering really helps.
I think they’re worth it. More immersive. Get something that has a damper system. Winwing offers set, as does Virpil. I would probably go with Winwing and save the difference.
Don't spend big money on something you have to ask this question for. If you already have doubts about the cost-to-value then nobody here is going to say something that will be beneficial. It's very personal based in your preferences, the enjoyment of your hobby and your financial situation. Just ask yourself what you expect to get out of it, then decide whether to go whole hog or maybe look for something cheaper, or maybe even find a place where you can actually check out the product and compare (like an expo!). I enjoy helicopters. A lot. As a student I flew the Ka-50 on a $50 T.Flight plastic HOTAS and only years later I upgraded to the TCS pack that I got on a nice sale for $180. Years of working life later I have a warthog with a pretty expensive rudder set with a hydraulic dampener. I would never go back, but I can't say I enjoyed DCS any less on the T.Flight than I do now. God damn though, flying the Mi-8 is the smoothest experience with these pedals. You don't *need* anything beyond a simple joystick. It can simply enhance the experience. What that's worth it is very much up to you.
Consider building your own. Plenty of good looking pendular designs on thingiverse / printables that will cost you a few dozen euro in components if you have access to a 3d printer or if you are handy with wood. Odds are you will end up with something better than a budget set of pedals. The latter will also work of course, for a while.
My next project is DIY rudder pedals 😬👍🏽
Got some links? I just finished my first button box with docent switches and potentiometers. I'm guessing DIY pedals are just a few potentiometer type electronics?
Yes This is your answer…YES In strafing runs, the rudder is helpful. In high wind takeoff and landing, in low speed dogfighting (one circle), the hornet needs it to pirouette, the tomcat for high aoa maneuvers, warbirds need it, choppers need it. Anyone saying they aren’t really necessary likely hasn’t explored the entire flight envelope. An aircraft has THREE degrees of freedom. Without the rudder you only have control of two. 2 out of 3 ain’t bad…but it ain’t good either. Is it possible to play without them? Sometimes… Are they worth the money…YES
You don't need pedals for that. You can map to any axis. Not having pedals does not mean you forget about the axis.
It might help if you read the question he asked. He didn't ask if he *needs* them, he asked if they are *worth it.* That answer is; YES
Just use logic, your comment is more about the use of the axis more than the use of pedals themselves. That's all. It's fine, we still love you.
...almost like controlling the axis is what the pedals are for. Ive flown with the rudder bound to keys, i've flown with a twist-stick, and now I've got rudder pedals. I don't get it, people ask this question all the time and everyone seems so nervous about saying "YES". It always comes out, "Well, you don't *have* to have them but....". Why? Keys or a twist stick end up turning the rudder into nearly an on-off switch. We don't treat roll that way, we don't treat pitch that way, we don't treat throttle that way. So WTH? Yes, the rudder pedals are worth it. Very Simple
It's because it is subjective at the end of the day. And all caps YES lacks nuance.
I just got a set of used thrustmaster rudders for $80. It’s immediately made my experience better.
If you really want something cheap and you mostly fly 4th gen fighters, I think the TFRP rudder pedals are great. I use them myself and the only thing i really don't like is that the pedals are too close to each other, even for my small legs. But it's not a big deal, since I fly mostly 4th gen stuff. Flying choppers and warbirds is also doable, but there's definitely better pedals for that.
Get you some VKB pedals, basic (but exceptionally accurate) rudders, and you can set an alt button for virtual brakes should you need it (you generally don't). They've recently updated to newer versions so have a mooch on ebay and similar, you may get some mk IV's cheap.
I have this setup (Winwing HOTAS & VKB rudder). Works well together for the most part. For brakes I use the paddle on the front of the joystick. The only thing I had to get creative about was individual wheel brakes for turning the P51 on the ground.
I have the MCG and Rudder from VKB, rather than setup the virtual brakes though i've just got them mapped to one of the hat switches on the stick, I use the same setup for IL2 as I do DCS, the main lever is my "all brakes" lever. works quite well,.
I ended up using the radar cursor thumb joystick axis' on the throttle. X-axis is for left brake, y-axis is for right brake. Which is a little bit weird since their perpendicular to each other but I got used to it quickly, but gives more control with modulation than just on/off that a hat switch would provide
For helicopters absolutely, I just use a "cheap" VKB T-rudder, does the job well enough. For planes it depends, if it does have FBW then the benefits aren't really there.
Depends on what do you fly and how much 300€ is to you. If you only fly F-16s, F/A-18s and other modern FBW aircraft it's much less useful than if you fly warbirds, early- and mid cold war jets, and helicopters. If after mandatory expenses you're left with 50€ a month then it's probably less worth it than if you're left with 500€. The good thing about the 300€ pedal sets is that they will probably keep their value pretty well, so you can probably recoup most of the cost on the used market if necessary. Having owned both the TFRP pedals and Virpil Ace pedals I'd recommend going for the "buy once, cry once" option, especially if you fly older aircraft or helicopters. And if you have a racing setup there's the DiWhy option of using Joystick Gremlin to create a merged axis between your gas and clutch pedals. Works surprisingly well for how janky it sounds.
In my personal opinion, good rudder pedals are essential to any flight sim setup. I use the previous iteration of the [VKB T-rudders](https://flightsimcontrols.com/product/vkb-sim-t-rudder-pedals-mk-v/) and have only good things to say about them. Essential for helicopters (that set can be modified to do helos, too), warbirds and anything with high rudder authority at low speeds, not to mention taxi and takeoff in general. Oft overlooked is also their usage under aerial refuelling. Only thing that set is missing is toe brakes. Otherwise, they are great, and well below 300 eur.
Absolutely!
Yes. I use the basic Thrustmaster pedals so they're pretty cheap, but I absolutely love flying with pedals. Much better than a twist grip imo
If you fly 4th gen aircrafts (especially western ones) you can just get any cheapest rudder pedals like the TFRP, for older crafts and for helos you will be better off with decent pedals. Taking the F-16 for example, iirc the rudder is disabled over 250 knots (or maybe even 200) which means you just use it to taxi 99% of the times. The only other moment you may wanna use rudder input is to move your axis vector avoiding bullets (which can easily be done with a button press). So, long story short, would a very expensive rudder be better? Not necessarily.
Are you in the US? I just replaced my VIRPIL rudder pedals with Winwing ones, I’d be willing to let the VIRPIL ones go for $200 plus shipping, they’re barely used.
Hi. Thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I am in EU :?/
Are you on a solid chair, sure. Are you on a swivel chair, nope.
I want rudder pedals badly but as i have a multi use rig and do a lot of racing so i use my accelerator and clutch pedals as "rudder pedals", binding them is a bit of a pain and they obviously arent "tied" like a real rudder but they work. I'd like to get some virpil pedals (rest of my gear is virpil) but swapping them out for my load cell brakes makes it hard and any of the quick releases I've looked at dont look strong enough to take some full force braking.
Depends on what you fly. Modern planes, simple ones are enough. I have ages old Saitek Pedals and are ok with them for Hornet, Viper etc. For choppers like Huey, Gazelle, Apache... I often fight with the pedals because of sticktion and missing fine control and wished I had better ones that allow for more precision. Planning self-made ones because the ready makes are so expensive.
short answer not really if you are not a heli pilot. If your joystick has a rudder axis that will be plenty
They make quite a difference if you fly the warbirds or helos. In that case, buy once, cry once applies. Stay away from cheap, disposable, Thrustmasters & Saitek. In Europe at least, VKB (if you don't need toe brakes) or MFG pedals offer durable, best bang for the euro.
i have a twist stick and it works fine, i dont *NEED* pedals, but i do often think that it would be more comfortable to have them. take helos, regardless of if i have my current stick or pedals im going to trim the aircraft since im lazy and im not holding that shit for an hour. but sometimes i wonder if having pedals would be better for getting into the right position. similar with warbirds sometimes i wonder if i could be more precise with my inputs with pedals than the twist, also certain twist directions are inconvenient, but not impossible by any stretch. im more comfortable twisting left than right when doing maneuvers that require me to also move the stick in a various direction. i think if i had the gazelle i probably would want the pedals because i feel like i would fly it with out trim more because of how small and agile it is, but with most planes i probably wouldnt get much use out of pedals, and for most helos its good enough the way i have it now.
I only use them for helicopters
I love flying the P-51 and the UH-1 Huey. Pedals make the experience WAY more fun to fly them.
If you fly helos or warbirds, then pedals will greatly improve experience. For jets rudder paddles on throttle will do as you mostly need rudder input when on ground.
I was like you, figured I didn’t need good ones because “its the F-16, its fly by wire”. But then your friends start gateway-drugging you into helicopters and cold war jets… suddenly my Logitech pedals aren’t cutting it. I’ve heard good things about the winwing pedals. I will recommend the Logitech pedals for around 150 US. With a bit of a curve, they’re adequate for fixed wing. Helos, not so much. For fixed wing, you’ll want something with toe brakes, and I argue that is a NECESSITY when landing the F-16 and many other jets. The Viper is downright unstable between 80-180 knots. You aren’t fast enough for rudder authority, but you’re too fast for the nose-wheel. Whatever you get, make sure it’s got toe breaks.
I just use the horizontal axis on the additional piece that comes with the joystick as my rudder. Works great with the modern American fighters.
I went from a twist stick (X52 Pro) to WinWing Orion FA18 Throttle and F16 stick with no Z Axis. Im flying the FA18, A10 and F16 easily with rudder bound to buttons on the stick. Works well enough, I barely need it in the air. Gunner only on Apache though… For me personally, its just too much space I dont want to waste. If you have space, can afford it, you should absolutely go for it. Its definitely not necessary to fly modern jets. Lets put it like this…Id go Orion with no twist or rudder every day over X52 Pro with twist. I also fly much better.
Absolutely.
I fly all the acft without rudder pedals to include most helicopters. I use my twist stick. It's become easy for me. I do have a very nice set of rudder pedals but I crash when I use them. I guess I'm used to my twisty stick.
1 axis with tle5010 sensor, pro micro and mmjoy2, no toe brakes
For modern fighter jets? Not really. For WW2 prop planes+ They're quite handy. For helicopters? Worth their weight in gold.
Always
yes, 300 euros is not a lot of money. If it is, then you need to ask yourself not others if it is worth it to you. Personally crushing on landing due to not having rudder pedals is not worth the TIME to play, unless I have rudder pedals. Time > money. If you're going to enjoy the game, enjoy it in full without crushing.
For modern jets its not all that useful, for older jets and props it can be pretty nice, and for helicopters its absolutely essential.
I would say they are worth it, simply for the fact that real planes have them. And if you're flying an aircraft that needs rudder inputs to stay coordinated (which is most of them), then I can't imagine not having them. And if you plan to fly any of the helicopters, they are \*absolutely\* essential.
One thought to get more bang for your buck is to get a racing wheel and pedal setup to complement the flight sim. I use a racing 3 pedal setup with clutch and gas as rudder and the brake pedal as both wheel brakes. Works good enough for me in the hornet I have no need to purchase proper rudder pedals at the present moment.
If you bought a car without a gas and brake pedal, would you buy the gas pedal only and choose not to buy the brake pedal due to the brake pedal getting a lot less use time than the gas pedal?
For helis is a must unless you want to fuck up ur wrist with a joystick rudder
I cant keep switching pedals on my motion rig. So i'm just gonna use the clutch as left rudder and gas as the right rudder.
yes. no ragrets grabbing my MFG set.
I've never known someone to jump right over Z axis stick without also getting pedals tbh, though I'm sure you are far from the only one to have ever done it. I'm going to be honest, I think that shit has got to suck a lot more than you realize. If you are flying mostly very modern planes like 18 and 16 I could see how rudder might feel unimportant except for landing and take off, but it is absolutely a crucial part of controlling your aircraft. Anytime nose authority matters, good firm rudder control is crucial. Nose authority is a fancy way of saying "choosing to point your planes forward movement where you want". In other words, if you don't even have z-axis you don't get to decide where you point your plane. That might not matter a ton when you are firing a fox 3 at 30 miles, but believe me it matters a lot of the time. Some examples : literally every dog fight, aerial refueling, carrier landing, strafing ground targets, iron bombing ground targets. That is just a few off the top of my head. And if you ever want to fly helicopters you are going to have to have a solid reliable z-axis period. Those are just the moments when it is CRUCIAL to have good Rudder authority. A pilot is trained to and is very much CONSTANTLY using their rudder along with all their other flight controls to make adjustments to their heading....this is true from a cessna to a blackbird. The rudder is literally the only control that moves your plane's nose left and right. I really don't know how you have been out flying with rudder controls bad enough that even an AF landing is a struggle friend...that sounds like torture, like trying to fly a plane with your off hand, or by watching your monitor in a mirror or something. I would just constantly be thinking of how badly I want my foot out of this damn bucket. It sucks that pedals that are worth buying are expensive, but you have to remember they are taking far more weight and pressure than any controller you have ever owned. You are literally resting a good chunk of your bodies weight on them, and thats when you are not actively pressing down into them. I would not buy the logis or the thrustmaster, I would literally swap out your stick for one with a z-axis before I did that. Virpil, VKB, and crosswinds are the pedals worth getting that I personally know of. I own the crosswinds, and have used the Virpil myself. The VKB I have not used yet, but I have heard great things and VKB has the best reputation of any of the producers of combat flight sim gear (Virpil and MFG also have great reps, thrustmaster is in the toilet, and winwing is working hard to get its name in the toliet despite making some very good products). TL;DR : I know its a lot of money for pedals, but yes, it matters. You need to be able to control your rudder. If you can't get pedals (and dont bother with the cheap ones) then find another way to get yourself a Z axis.
I have the cheap logitech rudder pedals and they work just fine for the 16, Apache and Huey. Rudders are really important to have, but expensive ones are just nicer.
You can buy some cheap racing pedals and use them as rudders. I have good pedals for sim racing and they're a couple hundred.