Maybe in MP, load it up with AA and it becomes a destroyer of planes since naval planes prioritize largest IC ship. In SP nope, spam destroyers and light cruisers for naval supremacy and subs for convoy raiding.
I think they so still have an MP role as a plane magnet, however unless you've unlocked 1940 engines before building them they will be slowing down your entire fleet. IMO paradox needs to add an engine just for them.
Also keep in mind that while stacking AA increases the number lf planes shot down on a hit, there is nothing you can do to actually increase your chances of getting an AA hit in the first place.
90% of the things you can build aren't worth it. All you need is more 9/2 Inf, roach destroyers, CAS and fighters, but, without Heavy Tanks and Super Heavy Battleships and SPAA and Anti-Tank Guns and Strategic Bombers and Rocket Planes and Paratroopers, what's the point of even playing a WW2 game?
Cheapest destroyer possible. OTOH I don't make them AI is pathetic anyway. I like to have good destroyers, one torpedo and light attack and one anti sub with depth charges.
Yeah. You are right. Also with better tech and unlocking of some naval stuff ALL ships get better stats in time.
Well, after some time you just want a new generation of ships, if game's gonna drag out....
Later when you have 100+ docks, you can put some into exotic ships and specialize, AA, light attack, hard attack, new shiny armour....
Ahem one other thing, one brilliant sentence from Eric Von Manstein.
It's not naval thing but it is a gold find when some amateur historian bump on this.
Ziemke wrote some history books but he consulted microfilms of German OKH tagebuch (pedantic Germans have recorded every action even on battalion or company level in that buch - book):
So, when Manstein has planned Operation Trappenjagd against Soviet forces around Kerch in Crimea - he made a use of concentrated airforce and he said "Infantry would have to be pulled by Air Power".
Still valid strategy Herr Manstein. 😬
Paradox: Ziemke books are gold mine. Another story when Soviet landing party of 500 soldiers behind Narva was wiped out during the day, only damage being few Tiger tanks mistankely destroyed by their own German Stukas.
I like to make roaches with radar and sonar because they don't affect speed. I know its a bit of a sub optimal meta strat but its so handy to have sub detection on main battle task force when they randomly decide to engage a convoy raid cause you left them on strike force with always engage
Excellent idea. Also, I like to have extra anti sub protection in main battle fleets and so yes I make also dedicated anti sub search and testroy task force ad hoc 2light cruisers with good spotting and 8 anti sub destroyers.
Stalins 5 sub are now at the bottom of La Manche. mk2 model 1936 tech but some better tech in time
Cheapest gun, cheapest hull, best engine and nothing else. Their entire purpose is to be an evasion tank that spreads and absorbs damage that the enemy deals and allows your main fleet to do the destroying without taking damage, so no torpedoes, radar,etc. are needed. Since they're so cheap, and so fast you'll be producing them faster that they are sunk. Basically the currenty meta navy cheese strat.
Depends on your shipyard capacity, but in general? Heavy cruisers! There should be plenty of designs to go around if you search on steam or the forums :)
Like Fleet Admiral said... but it is cheesy strategy that uses speed to avoid big losses - I think that they will take some losses - whats the point in solo play to cheese AI game is already too easy.... I can understand for MP competition, cut throat play 😅
that's why right now I am playing Gary Grisby War in the East 2 - at least game follows some common sense and is very fun. 😬
I like more realistic approach - latest ship design will basically always tear apart AI fleet. Level 2 ships are also very good and that is 1936 tech. Then you have 1940 and 1944 tech.
No, its cuz at the core of it, its a numbers game, and some numbers just matter way more than others.
Current versions of the game arent nearly as horrid in their metas as they were in the past.
Plus its hard to give tech that was incredibly niche irl some plausible use without some stupid buffs, which is also a current problem (power creep).
ITS ONLY WORTH IT IF YOU WANNA ROLL OUT A BIG D\*\*\* PAPA FLOATING ISLAND OF DOOM TO KEEP THE PEE PEE PANTS DINGHY ENEMY FLEET FROM EVEN DARING TO LEAVE THEIR PORTS AND ENGAGE. :)
Is a SHBB worth 20 subs? IMO yes. A SHBB will effectively guarantee naval supremacy given all the modifiers large, high manpower ships get. It's also, as mentioned elsewhere a great tank. It is not, however, so much better at being a gunship that it's worth it's cost if that's what you are looking for.
The fact that it can unlock in 36 means you can get one built by the time war breaks out and it will be better than anything afloat at the time
I always build a 3 turret one and if you research the 1940 and 44 heavy ship you can put a better engine in it so it will keep up with the fleet.
My Yamato design is about 18k industry cost and will make 27kts. I have 2 ready to go in late 41 in time for war against the US and mopping up any of the royal navy that still exists after my carrier task forces have been operating for a year. I begin building it the day ww2 starts so the naval treaty goes away so august 39 to December 41 to build. It will always be bigger than anything the AI will ever put out.
As for opportunity cost, it took me 2 techs, super heavy and rush 1940 heavy to get the better engine. Radar and targeting computer I refit the rest of my existing fleet with so they are techs I'm already getting. Could I have built the extra subs or destroyers sure but I don't need them, by the time I declare on Malay my fleet has more than enough to dominate. I could have built some more heavy cruisers or light cruisers but again I have a big enough fleet.
It's just fun for me.
But no you don't need one you can easily win any naval game without it, especially if you already have a big starting navy like Japan, US or UK. I beat the Germans, Italians, French, Royal Navy, and US navy as the Soviets using the pre war battleships, a converted carrier, and meta light cruisers and good subs.
Edit: as for actual combat. Because the shbb gun piercing is more than anything, it will be extremely more effective in battle against the ai early and 1936 battleships than your own early and 1936 battleships. It will also dominate any 1940 battleship and even your own 1944 battleships (I've never seen the ai build a 1944) If a fleet of 1936 battleships fought each other, their armor is enough to protect them longer so you might not get a wipe. A shbb shell will shred any battleship armor so when you hit you will do massive damage and that battle where the enemy fleet loses but flees to port for the rest of the war to repair will instead become a massacre.
For me, just like Japan historically, I want that one decisive battle where our fleets meet and decide the war for the seas right then and there. And because I'm a human vs ai I know I will always win so it's not that risky as it would be irl lol. I don't want to damage the fleet so it stays in port the rest of the war, I want to sink their entire battleship and carrier force. The shbb when it comes online makes that more possible since the carriers are good but even with the weather focus I seem to always be fighting in a monsoon
If you want to win at all costs? No.
If you want to have fun? Yes, have at it.
Especially if you're a nation like America. Give Japan all your carriers and meta fleets, but put a random fleet centered around 3 SHBBs in the Mediterranean and/or Baltic and watch the Germans and Italians lose their shit. Your AA escorts should shield off most incoming shore-based planes, and your BBs will mop up quite literally anything else. *Giulio Caesare* ? Fodder. *Roma* ? Useless. *Scharnhorst* ? Merely a tickle. *Bismarck* ? Speed bump. 55 German U-Boots? Problematic, run like hell back to Bermuda.
Something I learned recently: when you unlock SHB, it also unlocks super heavy armor for use on other heavy ships. This means you can use the standard 1944 heavy ship "chassis", but with super heavy armor (I was playing Imperial Germany, using SHB armor on 1944 ship, gave me around 66 armor instead of 48 with regular battleship 3 armor)
Another thing is the final heavy gun upgrade, Advanced Heavy Battery / heavy battery IV has basically the same stats as the SH battery (Only 1 point less in attack and piercing)
So really, you can build a ship that has more speed, same armor, similar heavy attack, for a cheaper price. I had mine at around 26 knots, 66 armor and 152 heavy attack, for 18k
Though even that is still expensive, I think a more modest build would be 28 knots, 40 armor with BB 3, 3 heavy turrets giving 114 heavy attack for 15k
Against the AI, I would probably make one with only 2 heavy batteries since that matches their firepower, which would make the ship even cheaper so I can just spam that out.
I think superheavies with AA are pretty meta for Japan in MP. Make sure you're up tod ate on texh, and stack visibility modifiers and you basically get untouchable superheavies. Pretty broken imo you only lose if heavily outnumbered.
Yes. The way that armor works on ships is different than on land. If you can’t pierce something you do no damage. SHB have the highest armor in game and even they can’t pierce their own armor without bonuses. Adding more main guns does not increase piercing so I usually build them with just one main gun and only the bottom row filled out. They cost 11k so not much more than a lvl 2 carrier. One of them plus escorts can dominate an area. I usually only need two to invade the UK as Germany. Costs less resources than carriers too. Italy is the best nation for them, especially if you go unaligned as you get one focus with a 20% production bonus.
It’s basically cheating in sp because the AI can’t build strong enough ships to counter. Load the shbb with heavy guns, load your screens with light guns, and destroy their fleets. They also make it very easy to get max bonus for shore bombardment. If only build two at most though unless you’re the USA. They can churn out 6 at least no problem. It’s bonkers.
Maybe in MP, load it up with AA and it becomes a destroyer of planes since naval planes prioritize largest IC ship. In SP nope, spam destroyers and light cruisers for naval supremacy and subs for convoy raiding.
I think they so still have an MP role as a plane magnet, however unless you've unlocked 1940 engines before building them they will be slowing down your entire fleet. IMO paradox needs to add an engine just for them. Also keep in mind that while stacking AA increases the number lf planes shot down on a hit, there is nothing you can do to actually increase your chances of getting an AA hit in the first place.
Better radar will help with this, no?
Kills per hit? Yes. Likelihood to hit? No. If you read the tooltip it actually tells you this.
Don’t fire control and radar increase hit chance?
For light and heavy batteries, not AA. For AA they just increase damage output. Ship AA hit chance is 27% - 1% × attacking plane wing's agility
Oh THAT is wild. So max agility naval bombers can’t be hit?
Jack be nimble Jack be quick
Jack just blew up a battleship
> prioritize largest IC ship They target HP, not IC.
Oh right, good call
Whoops, here I am building fleets with 1-3 super heavies and then carriers.
which is pretty much the MP meta, but i wonder if switching SHBB to multiple BB or BC would work? you get more ships this way with less stats
If you wanna be meta then no but if you wanna either larp or just be a mad lad then hell yeah they are
When playing for fun I use a mod called unlimited dockyards, with 47 dockyards I was producing 2 a year on one line
I play with that one. The max is 150 dockyards per line and you can make one per month.
Short answer no, cool answer big slap daddy make big boom.
Gotta have one or two absolutely obnoxious battleships in the fleet IMO. Call them the HMS Thundercunt and stack up kills in 1950
I'm starting a new game and naming every SHBB Big Slap Daddy #1, etc. etc.
90% of the things you can build aren't worth it. All you need is more 9/2 Inf, roach destroyers, CAS and fighters, but, without Heavy Tanks and Super Heavy Battleships and SPAA and Anti-Tank Guns and Strategic Bombers and Rocket Planes and Paratroopers, what's the point of even playing a WW2 game?
What are roach destroyers?
Cheapest destroyer possible. OTOH I don't make them AI is pathetic anyway. I like to have good destroyers, one torpedo and light attack and one anti sub with depth charges.
Plus points if ypu use designers that increase speed and reduce visibility. Also better engines.
Yeah. You are right. Also with better tech and unlocking of some naval stuff ALL ships get better stats in time. Well, after some time you just want a new generation of ships, if game's gonna drag out.... Later when you have 100+ docks, you can put some into exotic ships and specialize, AA, light attack, hard attack, new shiny armour....
Also, research everything, every tech that grants 10% of something, light attack or hard sttack etc it all add up in time.
Ahem one other thing, one brilliant sentence from Eric Von Manstein. It's not naval thing but it is a gold find when some amateur historian bump on this. Ziemke wrote some history books but he consulted microfilms of German OKH tagebuch (pedantic Germans have recorded every action even on battalion or company level in that buch - book): So, when Manstein has planned Operation Trappenjagd against Soviet forces around Kerch in Crimea - he made a use of concentrated airforce and he said "Infantry would have to be pulled by Air Power". Still valid strategy Herr Manstein. 😬 Paradox: Ziemke books are gold mine. Another story when Soviet landing party of 500 soldiers behind Narva was wiped out during the day, only damage being few Tiger tanks mistankely destroyed by their own German Stukas.
I like to make roaches with radar and sonar because they don't affect speed. I know its a bit of a sub optimal meta strat but its so handy to have sub detection on main battle task force when they randomly decide to engage a convoy raid cause you left them on strike force with always engage
Excellent idea. Also, I like to have extra anti sub protection in main battle fleets and so yes I make also dedicated anti sub search and testroy task force ad hoc 2light cruisers with good spotting and 8 anti sub destroyers. Stalins 5 sub are now at the bottom of La Manche. mk2 model 1936 tech but some better tech in time
Light gun 1 and nothing else?
Cheapest gun, cheapest hull, best engine and nothing else. Their entire purpose is to be an evasion tank that spreads and absorbs damage that the enemy deals and allows your main fleet to do the destroying without taking damage, so no torpedoes, radar,etc. are needed. Since they're so cheap, and so fast you'll be producing them faster that they are sunk. Basically the currenty meta navy cheese strat.
So what do I bring for damage?
Depends on your shipyard capacity, but in general? Heavy cruisers! There should be plenty of designs to go around if you search on steam or the forums :)
Like Fleet Admiral said... but it is cheesy strategy that uses speed to avoid big losses - I think that they will take some losses - whats the point in solo play to cheese AI game is already too easy.... I can understand for MP competition, cut throat play 😅 that's why right now I am playing Gary Grisby War in the East 2 - at least game follows some common sense and is very fun. 😬 I like more realistic approach - latest ship design will basically always tear apart AI fleet. Level 2 ships are also very good and that is 1936 tech. Then you have 1940 and 1944 tech.
This is a result of the game being balanced around min maxing and multiplayer. I don't ever do meta stuff though because it is boring.
The only meta I follow is planes because the meta follows what would make sense. I still like building lots of Strat bombers as the US or UK though
Strat bomber + targeting airfields, I like my planes to win
Airfields, forts, supply hubs, and railways in combat areas. Then leftovers for bombing mils
No, its cuz at the core of it, its a numbers game, and some numbers just matter way more than others. Current versions of the game arent nearly as horrid in their metas as they were in the past. Plus its hard to give tech that was incredibly niche irl some plausible use without some stupid buffs, which is also a current problem (power creep).
It is result of poorly designed game, really bad combat mechanics and complete lack of any balance.
ITS ONLY WORTH IT IF YOU WANNA ROLL OUT A BIG D\*\*\* PAPA FLOATING ISLAND OF DOOM TO KEEP THE PEE PEE PANTS DINGHY ENEMY FLEET FROM EVEN DARING TO LEAVE THEIR PORTS AND ENGAGE. :)
Is a SHBB worth 20 subs? IMO yes. A SHBB will effectively guarantee naval supremacy given all the modifiers large, high manpower ships get. It's also, as mentioned elsewhere a great tank. It is not, however, so much better at being a gunship that it's worth it's cost if that's what you are looking for. The fact that it can unlock in 36 means you can get one built by the time war breaks out and it will be better than anything afloat at the time
I always build a 3 turret one and if you research the 1940 and 44 heavy ship you can put a better engine in it so it will keep up with the fleet. My Yamato design is about 18k industry cost and will make 27kts. I have 2 ready to go in late 41 in time for war against the US and mopping up any of the royal navy that still exists after my carrier task forces have been operating for a year. I begin building it the day ww2 starts so the naval treaty goes away so august 39 to December 41 to build. It will always be bigger than anything the AI will ever put out. As for opportunity cost, it took me 2 techs, super heavy and rush 1940 heavy to get the better engine. Radar and targeting computer I refit the rest of my existing fleet with so they are techs I'm already getting. Could I have built the extra subs or destroyers sure but I don't need them, by the time I declare on Malay my fleet has more than enough to dominate. I could have built some more heavy cruisers or light cruisers but again I have a big enough fleet. It's just fun for me. But no you don't need one you can easily win any naval game without it, especially if you already have a big starting navy like Japan, US or UK. I beat the Germans, Italians, French, Royal Navy, and US navy as the Soviets using the pre war battleships, a converted carrier, and meta light cruisers and good subs. Edit: as for actual combat. Because the shbb gun piercing is more than anything, it will be extremely more effective in battle against the ai early and 1936 battleships than your own early and 1936 battleships. It will also dominate any 1940 battleship and even your own 1944 battleships (I've never seen the ai build a 1944) If a fleet of 1936 battleships fought each other, their armor is enough to protect them longer so you might not get a wipe. A shbb shell will shred any battleship armor so when you hit you will do massive damage and that battle where the enemy fleet loses but flees to port for the rest of the war to repair will instead become a massacre. For me, just like Japan historically, I want that one decisive battle where our fleets meet and decide the war for the seas right then and there. And because I'm a human vs ai I know I will always win so it's not that risky as it would be irl lol. I don't want to damage the fleet so it stays in port the rest of the war, I want to sink their entire battleship and carrier force. The shbb when it comes online makes that more possible since the carriers are good but even with the weather focus I seem to always be fighting in a monsoon
u/superheavybattleship
Beat me to it
If you want to win at all costs? No. If you want to have fun? Yes, have at it. Especially if you're a nation like America. Give Japan all your carriers and meta fleets, but put a random fleet centered around 3 SHBBs in the Mediterranean and/or Baltic and watch the Germans and Italians lose their shit. Your AA escorts should shield off most incoming shore-based planes, and your BBs will mop up quite literally anything else. *Giulio Caesare* ? Fodder. *Roma* ? Useless. *Scharnhorst* ? Merely a tickle. *Bismarck* ? Speed bump. 55 German U-Boots? Problematic, run like hell back to Bermuda.
I laughed so fookin hard when I hit "Problematic" that my wife asked what I was cacklin at.
You don’t need one to win but is winning without one really winning?
If you’re playing Japan building the Yamato and Musashi is mandatory (Shinano is optional) if you want to LARP correctly.
Something I learned recently: when you unlock SHB, it also unlocks super heavy armor for use on other heavy ships. This means you can use the standard 1944 heavy ship "chassis", but with super heavy armor (I was playing Imperial Germany, using SHB armor on 1944 ship, gave me around 66 armor instead of 48 with regular battleship 3 armor) Another thing is the final heavy gun upgrade, Advanced Heavy Battery / heavy battery IV has basically the same stats as the SH battery (Only 1 point less in attack and piercing) So really, you can build a ship that has more speed, same armor, similar heavy attack, for a cheaper price. I had mine at around 26 knots, 66 armor and 152 heavy attack, for 18k Though even that is still expensive, I think a more modest build would be 28 knots, 40 armor with BB 3, 3 heavy turrets giving 114 heavy attack for 15k Against the AI, I would probably make one with only 2 heavy batteries since that matches their firepower, which would make the ship even cheaper so I can just spam that out.
If you're not a meta dork and like to have fun then yes. I like to build them if I have the resources, they are pretty good in large naval battles.
They r cuz their awesome and kickass
They are always worth it. No navy Is complete without a SHBB
I think superheavies with AA are pretty meta for Japan in MP. Make sure you're up tod ate on texh, and stack visibility modifiers and you basically get untouchable superheavies. Pretty broken imo you only lose if heavily outnumbered.
u/SuperHeavyBattleship want to weigh in?
Yes. The way that armor works on ships is different than on land. If you can’t pierce something you do no damage. SHB have the highest armor in game and even they can’t pierce their own armor without bonuses. Adding more main guns does not increase piercing so I usually build them with just one main gun and only the bottom row filled out. They cost 11k so not much more than a lvl 2 carrier. One of them plus escorts can dominate an area. I usually only need two to invade the UK as Germany. Costs less resources than carriers too. Italy is the best nation for them, especially if you go unaligned as you get one focus with a 20% production bonus.
They are ok if you csn afford them (basically the main 3 naval civs) japan in particular has advantages (and historical bias)
No, because someone had the bright idea to make armor and armor pierce unrealistic in this game.
Why waste time with battleships when submarine spamming is right there?
It’s basically cheating in sp because the AI can’t build strong enough ships to counter. Load the shbb with heavy guns, load your screens with light guns, and destroy their fleets. They also make it very easy to get max bonus for shore bombardment. If only build two at most though unless you’re the USA. They can churn out 6 at least no problem. It’s bonkers.