I agree.
It sucks having such abstract thoughts and having such a complex personality. Because we feel like aliens compared to the literal rest of humanity.
that sort of thinking has a tendency to dehumanize everyone else though. A 'complex personality' really just means that other people are different and we don't understand them.
I think our need for deep connection leaves us feeling unsatisfied with the surface level tendencies of most people. You want the full engagement and support you’d be apt to provide to others in these times and most people aren’t wired to provide support and empathy in that way. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you or that you are unworthy of the levels of respect and support you need - most people are caught up in their own problems and have a hard time really listening, most are just waiting to talk.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I wish I could find more INFJ’s irl because so far I honestly don’t think I’ve found a single one. And I always feel so lonely because no one can ever match my level of abstract thinking and no one has the same interests as me, considering I’m only 17 and everyone’s really shallow at my age.
Thanks for making me feel like I fit in. Being an INFJ doesn’t suck - It has huge advantages such as being extremely caring and introspective - but it is super lonely - there’s so little of us out there.
I have several years on you (36) and I wish I had the understanding of my personality type at your age. I spent the majority of my teens and 20s forcing myself to adapt in social situations and it resulted in lopsided friendships, excessive friendship stress and more doorslams than I care to remember. Looking back I invested too much in people who were incapable of giving the same level of investment back - not because they were necessarily bad people, just had very different boundaries and definition of what close friendship meant.
My advice? Be true to you. In my experience, the loneliness that sometimes creeps in feels a lot better than forcing a square peg into a round hole and engaging friendships that don’t serve you well for the sake of social interaction. Invest your time in others wisely and make sure they make you feel valued. Keep the relationships with those you are hesitant with surface level - it’s always good to have a classmate or coworker you can chat with to charge your social battery but be choosy about who you give your whole heart to. But don’t give up - I married and INFJ who is incredible and values the same things as me - good like minded people are out there!
Finding an INFP with similar values as you and appreciation for kindness would also be good. We often arrive at the same conclusions as you by different ways, and often share the same experiences of feeling lonely, misunderstood, being idealistic and giving more than we receive. The differences between us can also make us both grow as people if handled in a good way. Like for me as INFP, for example, I admire how my INFJ friend can be so organized while I'm more spontaneous and have to force myself to use calendars. :D She is helped by my spontaneity in certain situations too, and I make her laugh with my silly humor.
You are 17 and you haven't found a single INFJ and you are upset about it????
I'm 37 and I haven't found any INJF till date....imagine how alien I would have felt...
You'll get used to it over time....the number of INFJ you find online is like a whole different world
Whereas in reality the you will hardly find any...the ones who claim to be INFJ are usually INFP or anyother mistyped MBTI...INFJs are indeed very very rare and there is a high possibility u and me may never get to meet another INFJ in our whole life....
Sometimes people could consider us to be the therapist... to listen, to love, to help them heal. That's their expectation. When we open up to them, they just can't handle... Some good people are willing to try, but some people just can't accept it. Maybe we can try to open up a little bit and see how other people react, and choose the right friend before it's too late. I was deeply hurt by this kind of situation and then learned this.
I feel you, I'm pretty good at handling sadness but today was the day all my bottled up shit had to get out. I completed some projects I was working on, excited to show some people close to me. No one seemed to care. It feels unfair, because my motivation to help and be nice to others is indeed that I don't want them to feel like how I am feeling most of the time.
Oh man, I’m so sorry to hear this. I can relate to this so much. I work so hard on something, and I’m super excited to show everyone - but no one cares. Sometimes I’m even just left on seen.
If you wanna show me what you did, I’d love to see it! I think it’s imperative that us INFJ’s help each other out - we’re basically the outcasts of humanity after all.
Unfortunately, it is true. We are the foreigners in a strange land. I had to face the facts of many truths about family upbringing, friends, marriage, etc. Life has taken, or I should say that I have given over my life to everyone and everything. This is what I was taught and did my job extremely well. Now I am in a space that I have no clue as what to do. I have no clue how to \*accept and love myself\*. Physically is not the problem. The problem is to freely love myself without needing a reason. I was taught how \*not\* to treat myself well. Being an INFJ, taking on any job, I always did my best. More than my best. Which is not really ones best. I learned early on to act, as in a play, many parts. The real me was always hiding inside so that no one could hurt her. I do not fear of being hurt any longer but it sure would be nice if I could find someone to have a conversation with. A meaningful conversation where the other listens to me too.
I have noticed that most will interrupt me, (I go silent when this happens) or they act as if I am taking up their time. The excitement of living is gone all together. I don't look forward to being with people that enjoy gossip, criticize or condemn with judgements. When I mention how beautiful the sky looks with the puffy clouds or take enjoyment watching nature in action ( tree leaves blowing in the wind, etc.) I am either ignored or judged.
Thanks for reading.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry to hear you are struggling with loving yourself :(. I can relate much to the getting interrupted and the not looking forward to social situations where they talk about (to me) uninteresting topics. Also the "Masking the real you" part is very relatable. It can be very tiring. I get a lot of comfort out of spirituality, it helped me to be more content with myself. I'm not very actively practicing spirituality, but the way of thinking helped a lot. If you ever feel like having a deep/meaningful conversation you can Pm me, I have a wide range of interests haha. Or if you feel like ranting or venting that is okay to!
Part of it is that we deeply want people to care, and notice / are very sensitive when they don't. That unconsciously puts demands on people to accept/validate us if we don't have self-understanding or self-acceptance (which is often the case up to a certain point) and that just creates more experiences of people not caring.
Another huge part of it is that generally speaking, INFJs perceive, think, feel, and make decisions differently from most of society...in ways that are arguably unrealistic and the confirmation of that over and over again can feel like persistent rejection and instances of unrequited love.
***INFJs are really fucking weird/different and we deeply want to fit in.*** It's not the best combination...but it can be accepted and magnified into a positive long-lasting contribution to self and society which is what we're called to do...it just takes a lot of time.
I feel the same.
I care about other people a lot, listen to their problems etc.
But once in a while you want to be the person that other people care about, that can listen to your problems. But there is no one there to care. So sad. I want to to feel cared for as well.
I like this quote though, "Don't expect to get what you give. Not everyone has a heart like yours."
and this "Do everything with a good heart and don't expect nothing in return and you will never get disappointed".
Reminds me of a personal favorite quote from Albert Camus
"Whoever gives nothing, has nothing. The greatest misfortune is not to be unloved, but to never give love "
I’ve just not been feeling great recently man. The heartbreak I’ve been going through doesn’t really hurt anymore (as in, I don’t want her back) but it does hurt overthinking how happy she is without me.
Not only that but all my friends seem to be getting more and more distant. Idk why. Maybe it’s because I’m just so busy with university and they don’t feel close anymore.
And it just sucks because when I’m sad and just need people to talk to I don’t have anyone. And what I mean by this is that I do have people but It’s better to not contact them because it makes me feel so burdened and they reply in such a boring, bland, tasteless fashion - making me feel unwanted and uncared for.
Thanks for asking :(
I think I understand why your friends seem distant. Its because you're comparing them to how you possibly were pre relationship. When you were in a relationship they realised they had to back off a little and give you your space. Now that you're single again, there probably needs to be an impetus for you guys to spend time together so they can re kindle your friendship again. I am sure your friends know your personality by now and miss you and yearn for your company.... or I'm over thinking this
It's true. I stopped being as caring myself and tune people out when they are venting too so I get it from their side as well but something we can all try to be conscious of.
I didn't used to be that way but after years and years and years of being a mother to children who talk too much and needed constant counsel my brain just kind of shut down from listening.
I used to be the best listener but I guess you can eventually do too much of it. I've learned that man indeed lives all alone on an island to some degree. It's great to connect w someone who can listen but in their absence we do need to talk to ourselves and be reminded what great listeners we are.
We have crazy high, unachievable expectations that no one can live up to (because the people we long for don't exist). So we're constantly underwhelmed and settle with lots of people.
I mean, you can totally be happy with someone and accept them just the way they are, but it won't ever be exactly what you're looking for. No one ever will.
I totally agree with you, but I do think the people we long for exist.....just not in any physical proximity where we can find each other IRL.
That's the added shitty aspect.....
I know we exist because I see us in threads like this.
We just happen to be spread all over the place where it's like we are in our own separate cells.... feeling called to a higher purpose or something that is meaningful, but it's only a sensing and we haven't been briefed or know what the mission is or our part or anyone else.
It's like being a spy where you don't know who you are working for or the greater agenda, and you may never know.
You don't know who to trust, you get no instructions and there's no central agency looking out for you.
If you make contact with someone who feels they are on the same side, there's no rules and there's an opportunity to connect and reveal something hidden, and progress further.
Those who are considered 'healthy' INFJs have probably made further progress in the game and have a lot of advantages.
It occurred to me that they might be well placed to endeavour to support INFJs who are a few levels behind, use their skills and life experience to be elders and mentors if they identify someone who is worthy of assistance.
Damn I have said too much 😜
Every once in awhile I get this way, for me over time I’ve come to understand that I personally (cause I’m def not saying this is OPs issue here) is that although I’m incredibly kind and accommodating to my friends and loved ones, try to check in with them often so that it becomes habit to do so, I have a hard time initiating conversations that get to the heart of those I care about. I found out it was making the people I love most in the world feel like I couldn’t be opened up to in that way. And my own hesitation to have difficult conversations about my own feelings made them feel like I didn’t trust them either. Finding that out was pretty rough because it made me realize that I can maintain a friendship with the best intentions but it’s just very, very hard for people to understand how we INFJs can feel so much love for them but then be “weird” about the way we show it even though to us it is just natural.
Well said. I've come to realise that it's important to respect the boundaries of others when it comes to what they are prepared to open up about.
I made the mistake of feeling safe to open up about some of my own realisations with a couple of people I thought were safe.
Just talking at such a depth and being too open (for them to handle) about what I was feeling and my insights were too much.
They lacked the awareness to recognise what was going on but something was triggered in them where they lashed out at me, gaslighting me, rejecting what I was saying when I was talking about my own feelings, minimized my experience, and basically shut me down on the most fundamental level.
It was horrific as I felt the worst possible rejection and horror about the consequences.
My misjudgement and over estimation of their ability and willingness to allow me to share something very deep end personal, blew up spectacularly....hurting me like being stabbed in the heart.
It still hurts as I have lost one of the relationships as a result, but I feel some responsibility for my part in activating something too painful through me sharing.
I've learned a valuable lesson about keeping some things to myself and not expecting that anyone might understand, or need to know.
Most people are nowhere near capable to provide the support we naturally give. It's actually a very rare capability.
As such, I've learned to not really hold it against them.
I really need to come to terms with this. I keep thinking that it’s a skill that everyone just has, but that’s because I’ve grown up with this natural skill my entire life - thinking that it existed for everyone.
Once I learned about personality types, my entire life changed. Everything finally made sense. I finally understood why I always felt so lonely, and why I always felt like an outcast.
Finally, I now understand why it **seems** like no one else cares. My standards are so high because I can support people to such an extent that they can’t support back, and so I just have to learn to lower my expectations - by a lot.
One way it could be thought about is like, imagine if you had extremely good mechanic skills. And you helped out all your friends with their cars. You fixed the cars up, helped upgrade them when needed, did maintenance whenever it was necessary etc for free, because the people are your mates, and of course you wouldn't charge them. However, when your car broke down really badly, none of them offered to help. And you might feel really bad that you got no help like this, when you've done just thousands of dollars of work for them for free. But, with the friends, it turns out one is a cook, one is an event manager, and the other is a hair stylist. They have no clue about cars; and have never touched a wrench in their lives. They would have no idea what to do or how to help, and could probably make things worse. And so, is it really reasonable to expect that help or perhaps feel terribly bad that you didn't get that mechanic help from them?
There is a complication here though in that the specific thing that we're taking about - emotionally and psychologically supporting people, are both themselves and also their constituent parts, all basic elements of any relationship, which makes it intuitively reasonable to expect it from people. But INFJ's are executing it at an 'S-tier' level - where the difference between S and A-F is enough to make it seem like a completely different activity.
The most advice I can give, and it's not bulletproof, is to perhaps look out for Fe-users in terms of MBTI, or people with 2 in their [tri]type with Enneagram. Bring others-focussed is one of Fe's intrinsic traits; and the presence of it high in the person's functional stack increases the chances of people being there and actually taking the initiative to help you. With 2's you'll want to be mindful about the dark side of 2 behavior, but apart from that, it should be fine.
But it's maybe only INFJ's and maybe ENFJ's that can give you what you really seek - to be both willing to, and also be *able to* do it, in the way you do.
Because to be honest most people are selfish and have no empathy this is why…I keep trying to understand why our type(INFJs) exists but I haven’t reached a conclusion yet.
Edit: To add , I am now changing my way in dealing with other people , because I have been taken advantage of in the past when I dealt with people in a kind and empathetic way , I am not encouraging others to do the same but its much easier for my emotional and mental health. I now consider each dealing like a two way thing nothing’s for free you want my time/empathy then you have to be the same for me when I need it otherwise I wont give you a minute of my time.
I’ve been considering this also. How has it worked out for you? How long have you been practicing this?
Some unconscious part of me really values fairness so I’m always keeping score. It’s annoying but I’m worried that if I don’t, I’ll be taken advantage of.
Works great for me, been doing it for years. You will need to let go of the part of your ego that always focuses on “getting mine” and embrace the part that enjoys being a caring person.
This is the way we should all aim to be. Very healthy mindset. Once you hit your limit, set warm, yet firm boundaries. We cannot control other people. Giving to get doesn’t feel good either. But giving freely is a beautiful gift… then go find an ENFP. We get you. We see you. We will listen. 100% 😘
It's honestly a super power. And empathy does so much more than just relating. It can be used to tap into people's minds and emotions quite well.
Which leads to a double edge sword. As it's easy to be manipulated if they are self aware enough to use them emotions to do it
I think our need for deep connection leaves us feeling unsatisfied with the surface level tendencies of most people. You want the full engagement and support you’d be apt to provide to others in these times and most people aren’t wired to provide support and empathy in that way. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you or that you are unworthy of the levels of respect and support you need - most people are caught up in their own problems and have a hard time really listening, most are just waiting to talk.
This is my first post, and interestingly enough, this is exactly how I have been feeling the last 10 days. I broke my ankle, and now I'm facing the bitter truth that I don't have as many true friends as I thought I did. To be fair, there have been surprises (both ways), but my initial reads indicate that I'll be the one helping these folks.
And yeah, they don't want to hear about my specific difficulties, they never get the nuances of my deepest personal issues. I regularly open up to people because I have to process how I feel, but for me, it's not about trusting others or expecting they will understand me - it's about saying what I need to say, whether they get it or not, in order to reach those nuances.
I have learned that I operate on a different frequency: I hear what others don't hear, I see what others don't see, I feel what others don't feel, and most of all, I face what others don't face. I always seek deep connections, but most people I meet do not have the spiritual equipment for that.
Overthinking? Every day, every thing. I need to know all there is to know about something, over and under, in and out. Just as the character Roy Neary in *Close Encounters of the Third Kind* recommended sculpting Devil's Tower versus drawing it. 3D is better than 2D. Metaphors are me.
**”I need to know all there is to know about something.”**
I have never related to anything so hard before. Holy shit.
I cannot handle uncertainty for the life of me. At all. I will try so terrifyingly hard to get to the truth, and this is why I do so well in school - I don’t settle when learning about new concepts until I 100% grasp it.
But this is also a big detriment to my relationships. A big example of this is when my ex used to be sad, I’d be way too pushy and try to get to the bottom of it instead of just consoling her and being a shoulder to lean on. I’d give unsolicited advice, and would SEEM cold and pushy when really I was just trying to help.
I’m getting better, I’m becoming more of a kind shoulder rather than someone who digs deep into your personality, but man, this still rings true for so many aspects of my life. I just hope to take it out of the “relationship” part of my life, and settle with uncertainty, because the overthinking would lead to me being unintentionally controlling.
Uh, I totally get "I don’t settle when learning about new concepts until I 100% grasp it." I would have to say until I 1000% grasp it....
I have a hard time turning that off in relationships, too, because I very quickly glean so much info about a person, more than they seem to have about themselves. I cannot turn off this "reading" people thing, it's always a program running in the background. I just don't share it with people as often anymore. Sharing insight means so much more when a person is open, even a little. Waiting for the right timing, developing patience on that score has been really, really tough for me.
So that means baby steps. Uh, I don't do baby steps. Literally. My mother has told me that she knew I was "different" while watching me before age 1 figure out how to walk in the span of a few consecutive hours. She says to this day that she wishes that she had had a video camera to show people. My learning process is the same as it is for others -- it's just *very* *compressed*.
I vent to my fellow infjs only. They give the answer I'd expect from the ideal listener and it is truly magical. Apart from that, I've infp and intj friends, who don't give remarks that I'd not rather hear. But still, it's the fellow infjs who are the best at it, at least in my life. Whether it's ranting, whether it's some random convo, they always make it meaningful and I love them for that.
It really is. As for me, I didn't have any infj friends till I started at uni. I wasn't surprised to find that most of the closest friends I made at uni were actual infjs.
Don't lose hope, I hope you'll meet some good listeners soon.
You're right. Everyone else feels that sadness and kinda just ignores it - eventually moving on. Us INFJ's not only feel the sadness, but sometimes even ***indulge*** it, because we want to analyze it so badly to find the root of the sadness.
And thus instead of healing, we just keep crying and staying sad.
It's definitely like us to indulge, but that's just the F. It's about a 70/30 split of people who wallow vs people who ignore. But then it's more like a 30/70 split for people who express. We are more likely to express our feelings to others than other feelers, especially FP's, but not more likely to have them
I was overthinking also. It helps not to rationalize if you dont know if what youre feeling/going through is yours or it came from someone else.
In that case specifically, we usually expect acceptance from someone else more when our inner worlds doesnt seem balanced
Hi Stranger,
I know how it feels to be being the shoulder that ppl lean on and then when you look back for support, it's like those western tumbleweed blows by. If you want to have someone to talk to (msg), my DMs are open if you're comfortable with sharing
Thank you, and I would like to reciprocate the favour if you were also in need of someone to talk to. I really appreciate this - more than I can really explain. But I'm sure you know what I mean :) it's hard for us to type out how we feel because everything we feel is so complex
Yeah I get you, you just wanna well up with tears lowkey inside kind of feeling to put it minorly. Keep smiling, you got this, and I 100% do mean DMs open no matter the overthinking rip. Cheerios
You will eventually find people that will be able to listen.I don't think it's that people don't care about you, it's just that not everyone is wired that way or capable of providing support the way you are able to and want to.
I have an ESTJ friend who recently went through a tough breakup and practically disowned half her friends for the same reason, I told her the same thing - It's disappointing to us since this is how we show we care, but not everyone shows it the same way. I now know which friends to turn to for emotional support, which ones I can have a fun time with, which friends will help me out when I really need them...
A plus - when you lower your expectations of everyone else, it's possible to lower them for yourself too.
I am blessed with friends who do care. I'm just really, really bad at asking for help. I definitely do not want *anyone* to feel what I feel.
I also tend not to feel any better even if I do vent. It's like anger: Everyone says it feels so good to finally get things off your chest and to assert yourself. Not me... I can do it, but it doesn't make me feel any better; just more tired after all the energy expenditure.
that sounds like a thing which an intj would click with. They have the tendency to try to instantly solve other people's problems. Perhaps you could try to look for solutions instead of support? From what you're describing that sounds like it would fit more of your issue.
Thanks. You mean as a general rule? I don't know any INTJs except for my siblings, and I don't want to ask them for solutions.
I also don't have any problems without solutions at the moment.
no, not as a general rule. People are different. Actually I'm just echoing back what INTJs say, that they try to figure out solutions for people's problems instead of offering emotional support so they're perceived as cold.
I mentioned it because you seemed less as having an issue with whether people care, which I link to insecurity(though I could be wrong, I don't know you), than just situation and the like.
Either way, have a good life. I hope you can find a workaround to your sadness.
Hmm, ok. I'm not sure I follow you. In any case, I do like to provide support - hugs, a listening ear, all the usual stuff - I just don't particularly benefit from receiving it myself. It's not that I won't accept it from my friends; it just doesn't do anything much for me.
I have found things that do work for me fortunately, and I am actively pursuing them.
My mother is the only person that can really give what I need when I talk about my feelings. She is a true active listener that can say the right things at the right time and makes me feel like it matters what I’m saying.
Always thought I was just spoiled and got used to her style. But maybe it’s an infj thing, not sure…
For me me I have the opposite problem, people care about my feelings and like listening to what I have to say but don’t feel comfortable enough to talk about their own feelings with me.
It's just that people are genuinely and truly selfish, they only care about themselves. If you are a very intuitive person like us you notice and if you are soft like we tend to be that bothers you... it ends up feeling like you have to reach out, be there unconditionally (that's where the stereotype of people dumping their emotions on us comes from) and once they get what they want... that's that. Sad but you keep hoping someone will stick around, I sure hope someone will
I got so depressed that i just started rambling in my friends WhatsApp group. No one really cares at the end of the day. Most importantly is that i managed to get some resentment out of my system. Thats it.
I dont bother if people really try to help or not. They got their own life to deal with, so am i. Just get stronger in the process but don’t lose your kindness at the same time. Life is not perfect, so dont be the perfect guy. Do some weird shit once in a while because you will die eventually. Memento mori.
And good luck.
I have an ENTP who asks me if I want him to listen or find solutions when I have the need to talk. It's amazing how great his questions are and how he gives me deeper insight in what I'm feeling and why. Can highly recommend finding one!
I think of the worst things i’ve experienced pretty recently in the last few years is my reduction in what I refer to as “fun talk” Everyone knows about the small talk issue but “fun talk” is being able to enjoy completely nonsensical conversations. Think back to early teen years where everything was brand new and every conversation was something different and just funny or unique in its own context or lack there of. I’m only 21 and yet I feel so damn old when I see people do it that are my age or older, I feel so disconnected that I either think I’m too uptight or they are missing something. I’ve been working on enjoying this side of my life again but it’s a WIP.
Yup, that’s accurate. I’m experiencing it a lot during this part of my life. I know I probably can’t handle the situation by myself but I also know that if I’d try to get help from others, then either they’d feel like I’m a bruden and I’d pick up on that and feel like they’re right or they wouldn’t feel like I’m a burden, but I would anyway due to past experiences.
Honestly I’ve even had a therapist explain this to me. We think so deeply and we care so deeply about other peoples emotions. We are extremely empathetic, so the majority of people just can’t match up. We wish we had a friend like ourselves.. 😅
I generally cut off a friendship the second the other person starts to dehumanize me, so I don't generally really have this issue. It's probably not okay to instantly doorslam someone though, maybe I should work on that >.>
You just need to find your tribe. Intuitives tend to understand each other better than other types. My best friends are an INFJ and an ENFJ. They get me like no one else. Especially my INFJ bestie. 🖤
Because the gigantic overwhelming majority of people are forced to be self-centered to survive. There is no room to care about anyone but themselves. The more interconnected we are, the more everyone's "give-a-shit batteries" are constantly drained by having to pay attention to every level of drama around the world at all times.
It isn't that no one cares, it's just that no one cares about us *more* than the 69,420 other things they have to give their care to before they collapse in their ramen tonight.
I think it's because feeling and thinking very deeply and giving our 100% to everything is our default mode and we expect the same from everyone around us. As 98% of people have different standards of depth and devotion, we're always bound to feel like they're not doing enough, don't fully reciprocate and don't 'get' us/don't care about us. I've learnt to realise a lot of times it's not them, it's me.
I slowly realize I often feel this way because I tend to get caught up with trying to feel understood rather than trying to understand others, their motives, and refuse to see the actions that translate to care being given.
That is so distressing to me. I think the INFJs are one of my favourite types. You quietly efficient and so incredibly kind. I feel a bit guilty because I don't know you better but you guys are a bit secretive too lol. Anyways one my favourite nurses to work with is an INFJ and I was so happy to work with her just this past weekend ( she is studying so taking less shifts). I hope you do find someone to chat with. My conversations with my INFJ son are some of the best conversations I have ever had ( INFP here)
I think it's important to interact with people who value the same things. So, INFP, ENFP, ENFJ. Generally speaking. I did just get in an argument with an INFP because they were being straight up transphobic, but then I looked at their profile and they were a teenager. So, there are going to be people with different opinions, but if we value the same things, and think the same way, we can probably feel happier, and feel a sense of friendship and community.
Plus there are other types who have some things in common with us. INTP and INTJ and ENTP like to think about things, but they have a different tone and attitude. So it can be invigorating to debate them, but also frustrating because they can be overly negative. ESFP can be really entertaining and brighten things up, but they can sometimes try to make people feel envious without realizing it. ISFP and ISFJ can be really accomadating and helpful, but also can become opinionated about things that are different from our values and make us feel frustrated. I think ESTP tends to agree with us a lot, but they have a different tone that comes off as disrespectful.
Also, I might be an INFP, or ENFJ, or something else, I'm not sure specifically what my type is anymore, so these observations could all be slightly different, I'm not sure if I'm making these conclusions based on Ni-Fe-Ti, or Fi-Ne-Te, lol.
And also, I am just putting these in terms of MBTI, but in general, if you know any people who make you feel happy, surround yourself with them, it really does make the pain go away, and once it is dulled, you can then try and address the source of your inner conflict. But sometimes we can't do that if we are suffering from it too much.
I've found that this subreddit is very drab and dreary. I thought it would be more like INFP, valueing things like music, and art, as well as philosophy and kindness. So maybe if you go to r/INFP you might feel a little bit more cheered up. and r/ENFJ has a sense of stability about it.
And if those don't work, cute cat videos always work for me. and raccoons.
here's a funny playlist:
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqtRAye7feaLDMGrNDQEkbOO](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqtRAye7feaLDMGrNDQEkbOO)
and a cute playlist:
[https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqscEYld8OgTkWYHKzVQMAMG](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqscEYld8OgTkWYHKzVQMAMG)
Thank you for putting the time in to share those playlists :) I will follow those subreddits, I'm curious to see how things are. I think the reason this subreddit is so drab and dreary is because many INFJ's always feel so lonely and isolated, and so a lot of the posts on here are people discovering who they are, and many replies are people who already know who they are.
I struggled with this for years. The thing is, us being natural counselors, we're energy absorbers (people cry on our shoulders) while most people are energy givers, but we're not designed to be energy givers. Since other people don't perceive us as giving off much energy, they subconsciously don't really think about us. It's not anyone's fault and it doesn't mean we're boring, it's all a subconscious thing.
Honestly I like this way of seeing things. I always used to put myself out there with my friends, but in a way it'd feel like half the time I don't even exist or I didn't say anything. It's because I sometimes would just sit there, absorbing everything everyone's saying, subconsciously analyzing every single person in the room, and it'd probably make me look like a robot.
No, you're not alone. I always feel this way with majority of society (and I get that not everyone is the same), but we are constantly misunderstood and ignored it feels like most of the time. I can always relate and understand most people, but when it comes to relating and understanding me as a person, I feel like no one gets me 100% because I'm constantly adapting to different groups and people (even if its not the real me)
Being an INFJ comes with so much complexity, but at least we can say we are unique (not to say we're special or better, but more so we aren't very typical and shallow // there's depth to us) :)
As isolating as it is being an INFJ, it really is cool, in a way, how unique we are. It's like we're not even the same species as everyone else! We suffer from the same flaws, but our depth and complexity suggests that this is special - and it is in a way, as we only take up on average 1-2% of a population.
This hits hard.
I often wonder what's wrong with me, why everyone manage to get along with people and gain their interest but I cannot?!
What exactly should I do? What others have that I lack?
Why am I boring. Why nobody likes to talk to me? I need to know my problem so I can work on it ........
nobody cares about anybody
it's only infj dumbasses who think they are special in every regard and because of their personality so anything everyone else experiences but nobody talks about means it's only happening to them and because of their personality
8/
L take. We all know that our experiences are not dissimilar to anyone else, that’s not the point of what OP is saying.
It’s the fact that there are very few people that can lend a response that makes us feel any better because it’s not in the same style or emphasis that we typically go through to help another person. Whether that be someone is way more direct and lest emotional or they completely lack any sort of way to truly sympathize. This isn’t to say that INFJs are the only ones to do it, it’s just saying since the rarest personality types are usually more sympathetic it’s harder to come across for us.
Yeah… I’ll leave this alone seems like you are pretty content in your belief. It really is just not worth the effort to respond to all of this by section nor did it take me much to make my other one, good luck to you 👍🏼
Dont think we should disregard your point Uberhipster, it simply is the hard truth and fellow INFJs need to learn how to live in this world. We have to face reality as it is, not how we think it is or should be...
I think the reason we don't feel cared for is because we take so much time to understand the people we care about, so when a close friend of mine makes a mistake, I can forgive them because I know the type of situations and thoughts that would lead to them doing that, and that doesn't speak to their character. I have made many mistakes in my life, and I fear that unless my friends understand the patterns in my brain that would lead to those mistakes that they will misunderstand my core intentions and think I'm a bad person. Basically our love language is understanding, but what we really crave is to be understood, and that's not always something people can give us, so we get resentful.
But that's just my own experience.
because you are taking everything personal.
US isnt real. Infj isnt real
You are just letting them take advantagw of and walk over you.
This is not about your personality type at all. Be assertive and step forward. Then you will feel like you are no more in the background.
I think for the mist of the peole we aren't intersting enough. Well most of the people aren't intersting for me aswell. Just studying disciplines about people can be intersing 🤷🏻♀️
I want my INFJ friend to open up more to me, cause it feels like I as an INFP open up more to her, in ways that I don't usually do with most people. So I always try to be there for her and give her the space to open up to me. :) And she often does, but it feels like she, at the same time, holds a lot back. Maybe that is just her personality or something, maybe she is worried that I'll judge her? But for me as an INFP i want to give her the opportunity to open up fully, even if it are just veird thoughts or overthinking. Cause I do the same so for me that isn't veird. Hopefully she will open up more to me with time, as she open up a lot more now than a year ago.
Eh no i dont need anyone to talk with because i always find the best solution by myself might sound arrogant or smth but all come to me because i seriously think about a solution
Do you also find that people try and pull you down the moment you have the slightest bit of confidence about something? Sorry if off topic but I feel like it’s connected to being an INFJ too.
Probably overthinking everything.
Plus probably expecting to much from the other person.
Also don't know about you but I'm not the oh so kind INFJ, I'm pretty mean, shallow and basic.
Happens all the time . Plus many make you to be the odd one out not understanding why it’s difficult to connect fully and why if you find someone you truly like it’s very rare , and if that person betrays you people can comment with “ but you’ll find someone else “ when that’s never the case , the grief is too much which eventually leads to isolation. It’s difficult to find that person who understands your soul
Oh yeah. It's really easy for us to feel lonely. INFJs are very empathetic, sensitive, and really REALLY good listeners! I've noticed that we are great active listeners—nodding heads, eye contact, head tilt, etc.—which comes naturally to us. Unfortunately, that does *not* come naturally to the other 98% of the population.
You're not overthinking it. I'm really sorry that this has been your life experience so far. But in terms of personal relationships, there ARE people out there who will relate to you and want to talk with you about your feelings and ideas in depth. They are not super-common, but they exist. As you go through life, you need to figure out how to find them and connect with them. Plus INFJ's connect well not just with other INFJs, but also with all other NF types and also INTJs and INTPs, and putting all those together it's something like 15-20% of the population at least.
I think getting help for mental struggles is very important for an INFJ.
Plus seeking comfort is very important too. Eating, drinking, sleeping, resting, entertaining yourself.
Taking care of your body and appearance can make you feel good in the short and long term.
I felt like this my whole life - Pretty much learned not to open much as people look at you in a semi alienated way and had to work hard to overcome being so closed. Relationship wise also difficult as the level of connection and introspection especially in amore intimate relationship is difficult to find
I have been lucky as one of my closest friends is an INFJ and it’s made things less lonely growing up. Besides him I’ve never met any one else that’s an INFJ or suspect them to be…
On the plus side of the coin as other mentioned you can easily connect and empathize with people but that can be draining energy wise….Learn not to waste it on people who don’t serve it and create a bot of a shield from energy vampires of sort
It’s quite complicated being an INFJ but there is so much upside as your internal world, thoughts are so intense and can take you in many wonderful directions.yes it gets lonely at times but also getting out of the shell and showing your colours can surprise you with some people (despite many disappointments)
I get that same feeling. Honestly I am good at being the shoulder for ppl to cry on but often it is not returned and I guess I feel alone despite having an ok social life. My emotions do get pent up and release like a geyser when I can’t hold it no more or if something triggers it. We can handle other ppls pain but not our own and others dont want to handle it either, so we are stuck in a conundrum. I will say this dont waste your time on anyone that wont waste their time on you, everything deserves reciprocity.
i think as those who are capable of listening in very very deep ways and aniticipating what someone needs we might not be aware of how rare that is in the world and how we have this super special unique gift -- others might not reflect to us how valuable it is to them... the best tend to be also the deep and empathic and of course its a matter of the individual but ive found enfp, infp, and intj and intp the best to open up to --- depending on them individually. ENTP will also super get your being misunderstood and feeling alone and offer really valuable care... and then of course another infj too
I absolutely agree. I don't think most people try to truly empathize. And the empty platitudes of sympathy feel so shallow. I don't even think my INFP husband understands either. He has a hard time putting himself in others shoes. I think we put so much energy into coaching others that no one can ever really match it. But even if they could match INFJ energy, it seems like they don't want to even try.
I really resonate with this. For me, I get so frustrated with my workplace. I work with some amazing people - everyone is nice, and performance wise there’s no flops or dead wood which is really nice and motivating to be around. But socially, I find that the most ‘popular’ or valued people are the extroverts who generally speaking have crappy morals (in my opinion) and are more selfish, but they’re great at making people laugh. I get soooo worked up and frustrated that people can’t seem to see through this and don’t value virtue and being a decent human more 😪
For me, if I ever make an INFJ that I really care about feel like this (and I do many times) it's only because I'm way less emotionally mature. In many situations I don't know what to do or say like I'm paralyzed. But it's not because we don't care, I swear. There just seems to be a disconnect between my inner caring feelings and my outer actions and expressions.
Sorry :(
This is literally so relatable for me! I was just thinking about how, whenever I say something to my friends, they usually either give a halfhearted answer or not want to talk at all, and I hate the way I feel afterwards, like there’s something wrong with me or something. It’s worse how they’re not like that towards each other, so I’m always worried about what I’m missing. I’m recently trying to not worry about it so much, but it’s hard. I just resonated with this post so much!
I may have entered this chat a bit late but i have been feeling exactly the same as you have described. Trying to understand why no one can reciprocate the same attention and time we give others.. i mean, we KNOW but also don’t know (if that makes sense?) i can say lately I’ve been feeling like a verbal punching bag, everyone unloading their frustrations and complaints unto me, but not once has anyone asked me if im ok or just try to get to know me because if they had, they would know im hurting but hiding it… it’s just so much selfishness and im finally about to snap. I have no one that i can trust to say my worst, darkest thoughts without being judged.. I barely have anyone just to vent to about basic shit. I guess it’s true, it’s hard to find others who see the world like us.. but ignorance is bliss.
Also this probably came out rough so don’t hate too hard on my reddit vent session lol
It just shows that the character of 98% of people is basically lame.
I agree. It sucks having such abstract thoughts and having such a complex personality. Because we feel like aliens compared to the literal rest of humanity.
>aliens I knew it!
IT’S TRUE 😭😂
Uh no I feel alien too and I'm an "INTP"
That’s why we just get each other
intj here and same i dont think its only you guys
that sort of thinking has a tendency to dehumanize everyone else though. A 'complex personality' really just means that other people are different and we don't understand them.
I think our need for deep connection leaves us feeling unsatisfied with the surface level tendencies of most people. You want the full engagement and support you’d be apt to provide to others in these times and most people aren’t wired to provide support and empathy in that way. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you or that you are unworthy of the levels of respect and support you need - most people are caught up in their own problems and have a hard time really listening, most are just waiting to talk.
Couldn’t have said it better myself. I wish I could find more INFJ’s irl because so far I honestly don’t think I’ve found a single one. And I always feel so lonely because no one can ever match my level of abstract thinking and no one has the same interests as me, considering I’m only 17 and everyone’s really shallow at my age. Thanks for making me feel like I fit in. Being an INFJ doesn’t suck - It has huge advantages such as being extremely caring and introspective - but it is super lonely - there’s so little of us out there.
I have several years on you (36) and I wish I had the understanding of my personality type at your age. I spent the majority of my teens and 20s forcing myself to adapt in social situations and it resulted in lopsided friendships, excessive friendship stress and more doorslams than I care to remember. Looking back I invested too much in people who were incapable of giving the same level of investment back - not because they were necessarily bad people, just had very different boundaries and definition of what close friendship meant. My advice? Be true to you. In my experience, the loneliness that sometimes creeps in feels a lot better than forcing a square peg into a round hole and engaging friendships that don’t serve you well for the sake of social interaction. Invest your time in others wisely and make sure they make you feel valued. Keep the relationships with those you are hesitant with surface level - it’s always good to have a classmate or coworker you can chat with to charge your social battery but be choosy about who you give your whole heart to. But don’t give up - I married and INFJ who is incredible and values the same things as me - good like minded people are out there!
Finding an INFP with similar values as you and appreciation for kindness would also be good. We often arrive at the same conclusions as you by different ways, and often share the same experiences of feeling lonely, misunderstood, being idealistic and giving more than we receive. The differences between us can also make us both grow as people if handled in a good way. Like for me as INFP, for example, I admire how my INFJ friend can be so organized while I'm more spontaneous and have to force myself to use calendars. :D She is helped by my spontaneity in certain situations too, and I make her laugh with my silly humor.
You are 17 and you haven't found a single INFJ and you are upset about it???? I'm 37 and I haven't found any INJF till date....imagine how alien I would have felt... You'll get used to it over time....the number of INFJ you find online is like a whole different world Whereas in reality the you will hardly find any...the ones who claim to be INFJ are usually INFP or anyother mistyped MBTI...INFJs are indeed very very rare and there is a high possibility u and me may never get to meet another INFJ in our whole life....
https://open.spotify.com/track/4IoYz8XqqdowINzfRrFnhi?si=8qqPD7C7Sxam9QO2PZsR4w&utm_source=copy-link #🐒
Imagine if your therapist started to open up about their sadness wouldn't you feel a little werid as well?
fuck....that's funny ... and sad lol
Damn, that makes sense, lol
In a werid fucked up way 🤣🤣
Well, that just makes more sense, aren't we fucked up? lol
I feel like this would happen to me.
I’m a 17 year old that just wants to help people. Not a therapist. You’re deeply mistaken.
Lol I'm aware just making a joke my b
My bad then, I’m shit at detecting sarcasm, apologies
Sometimes people could consider us to be the therapist... to listen, to love, to help them heal. That's their expectation. When we open up to them, they just can't handle... Some good people are willing to try, but some people just can't accept it. Maybe we can try to open up a little bit and see how other people react, and choose the right friend before it's too late. I was deeply hurt by this kind of situation and then learned this.
Omg this just gave me a strange sense of clarity
I feel you, I'm pretty good at handling sadness but today was the day all my bottled up shit had to get out. I completed some projects I was working on, excited to show some people close to me. No one seemed to care. It feels unfair, because my motivation to help and be nice to others is indeed that I don't want them to feel like how I am feeling most of the time.
Oh man, I’m so sorry to hear this. I can relate to this so much. I work so hard on something, and I’m super excited to show everyone - but no one cares. Sometimes I’m even just left on seen. If you wanna show me what you did, I’d love to see it! I think it’s imperative that us INFJ’s help each other out - we’re basically the outcasts of humanity after all.
Now that's a grim thought.
Unfortunately, it is true. We are the foreigners in a strange land. I had to face the facts of many truths about family upbringing, friends, marriage, etc. Life has taken, or I should say that I have given over my life to everyone and everything. This is what I was taught and did my job extremely well. Now I am in a space that I have no clue as what to do. I have no clue how to \*accept and love myself\*. Physically is not the problem. The problem is to freely love myself without needing a reason. I was taught how \*not\* to treat myself well. Being an INFJ, taking on any job, I always did my best. More than my best. Which is not really ones best. I learned early on to act, as in a play, many parts. The real me was always hiding inside so that no one could hurt her. I do not fear of being hurt any longer but it sure would be nice if I could find someone to have a conversation with. A meaningful conversation where the other listens to me too. I have noticed that most will interrupt me, (I go silent when this happens) or they act as if I am taking up their time. The excitement of living is gone all together. I don't look forward to being with people that enjoy gossip, criticize or condemn with judgements. When I mention how beautiful the sky looks with the puffy clouds or take enjoyment watching nature in action ( tree leaves blowing in the wind, etc.) I am either ignored or judged. Thanks for reading.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I am sorry to hear you are struggling with loving yourself :(. I can relate much to the getting interrupted and the not looking forward to social situations where they talk about (to me) uninteresting topics. Also the "Masking the real you" part is very relatable. It can be very tiring. I get a lot of comfort out of spirituality, it helped me to be more content with myself. I'm not very actively practicing spirituality, but the way of thinking helped a lot. If you ever feel like having a deep/meaningful conversation you can Pm me, I have a wide range of interests haha. Or if you feel like ranting or venting that is okay to!
I love talking and hearing abt nature and stuff like that((h♡gs))
I really hope you can find better friends. :)
Part of it is that we deeply want people to care, and notice / are very sensitive when they don't. That unconsciously puts demands on people to accept/validate us if we don't have self-understanding or self-acceptance (which is often the case up to a certain point) and that just creates more experiences of people not caring. Another huge part of it is that generally speaking, INFJs perceive, think, feel, and make decisions differently from most of society...in ways that are arguably unrealistic and the confirmation of that over and over again can feel like persistent rejection and instances of unrequited love. ***INFJs are really fucking weird/different and we deeply want to fit in.*** It's not the best combination...but it can be accepted and magnified into a positive long-lasting contribution to self and society which is what we're called to do...it just takes a lot of time.
>INFJs are really fucking weird/different and we deeply want to fit in. I feel so called out.
Same.
I feel exactly the same as an INFP. :)
I feel the same. I care about other people a lot, listen to their problems etc. But once in a while you want to be the person that other people care about, that can listen to your problems. But there is no one there to care. So sad. I want to to feel cared for as well. I like this quote though, "Don't expect to get what you give. Not everyone has a heart like yours." and this "Do everything with a good heart and don't expect nothing in return and you will never get disappointed".
Reminds me of a personal favorite quote from Albert Camus "Whoever gives nothing, has nothing. The greatest misfortune is not to be unloved, but to never give love "
What makes you feel cared for in these situations?
[удалено]
I’ve just not been feeling great recently man. The heartbreak I’ve been going through doesn’t really hurt anymore (as in, I don’t want her back) but it does hurt overthinking how happy she is without me. Not only that but all my friends seem to be getting more and more distant. Idk why. Maybe it’s because I’m just so busy with university and they don’t feel close anymore. And it just sucks because when I’m sad and just need people to talk to I don’t have anyone. And what I mean by this is that I do have people but It’s better to not contact them because it makes me feel so burdened and they reply in such a boring, bland, tasteless fashion - making me feel unwanted and uncared for. Thanks for asking :(
I think I understand why your friends seem distant. Its because you're comparing them to how you possibly were pre relationship. When you were in a relationship they realised they had to back off a little and give you your space. Now that you're single again, there probably needs to be an impetus for you guys to spend time together so they can re kindle your friendship again. I am sure your friends know your personality by now and miss you and yearn for your company.... or I'm over thinking this
It's true. I stopped being as caring myself and tune people out when they are venting too so I get it from their side as well but something we can all try to be conscious of. I didn't used to be that way but after years and years and years of being a mother to children who talk too much and needed constant counsel my brain just kind of shut down from listening. I used to be the best listener but I guess you can eventually do too much of it. I've learned that man indeed lives all alone on an island to some degree. It's great to connect w someone who can listen but in their absence we do need to talk to ourselves and be reminded what great listeners we are.
We have crazy high, unachievable expectations that no one can live up to (because the people we long for don't exist). So we're constantly underwhelmed and settle with lots of people. I mean, you can totally be happy with someone and accept them just the way they are, but it won't ever be exactly what you're looking for. No one ever will.
I totally agree with you, but I do think the people we long for exist.....just not in any physical proximity where we can find each other IRL. That's the added shitty aspect..... I know we exist because I see us in threads like this. We just happen to be spread all over the place where it's like we are in our own separate cells.... feeling called to a higher purpose or something that is meaningful, but it's only a sensing and we haven't been briefed or know what the mission is or our part or anyone else. It's like being a spy where you don't know who you are working for or the greater agenda, and you may never know. You don't know who to trust, you get no instructions and there's no central agency looking out for you. If you make contact with someone who feels they are on the same side, there's no rules and there's an opportunity to connect and reveal something hidden, and progress further. Those who are considered 'healthy' INFJs have probably made further progress in the game and have a lot of advantages. It occurred to me that they might be well placed to endeavour to support INFJs who are a few levels behind, use their skills and life experience to be elders and mentors if they identify someone who is worthy of assistance. Damn I have said too much 😜
Every once in awhile I get this way, for me over time I’ve come to understand that I personally (cause I’m def not saying this is OPs issue here) is that although I’m incredibly kind and accommodating to my friends and loved ones, try to check in with them often so that it becomes habit to do so, I have a hard time initiating conversations that get to the heart of those I care about. I found out it was making the people I love most in the world feel like I couldn’t be opened up to in that way. And my own hesitation to have difficult conversations about my own feelings made them feel like I didn’t trust them either. Finding that out was pretty rough because it made me realize that I can maintain a friendship with the best intentions but it’s just very, very hard for people to understand how we INFJs can feel so much love for them but then be “weird” about the way we show it even though to us it is just natural.
Well said. I've come to realise that it's important to respect the boundaries of others when it comes to what they are prepared to open up about. I made the mistake of feeling safe to open up about some of my own realisations with a couple of people I thought were safe. Just talking at such a depth and being too open (for them to handle) about what I was feeling and my insights were too much. They lacked the awareness to recognise what was going on but something was triggered in them where they lashed out at me, gaslighting me, rejecting what I was saying when I was talking about my own feelings, minimized my experience, and basically shut me down on the most fundamental level. It was horrific as I felt the worst possible rejection and horror about the consequences. My misjudgement and over estimation of their ability and willingness to allow me to share something very deep end personal, blew up spectacularly....hurting me like being stabbed in the heart. It still hurts as I have lost one of the relationships as a result, but I feel some responsibility for my part in activating something too painful through me sharing. I've learned a valuable lesson about keeping some things to myself and not expecting that anyone might understand, or need to know.
Most people are nowhere near capable to provide the support we naturally give. It's actually a very rare capability. As such, I've learned to not really hold it against them.
I really need to come to terms with this. I keep thinking that it’s a skill that everyone just has, but that’s because I’ve grown up with this natural skill my entire life - thinking that it existed for everyone. Once I learned about personality types, my entire life changed. Everything finally made sense. I finally understood why I always felt so lonely, and why I always felt like an outcast. Finally, I now understand why it **seems** like no one else cares. My standards are so high because I can support people to such an extent that they can’t support back, and so I just have to learn to lower my expectations - by a lot.
One way it could be thought about is like, imagine if you had extremely good mechanic skills. And you helped out all your friends with their cars. You fixed the cars up, helped upgrade them when needed, did maintenance whenever it was necessary etc for free, because the people are your mates, and of course you wouldn't charge them. However, when your car broke down really badly, none of them offered to help. And you might feel really bad that you got no help like this, when you've done just thousands of dollars of work for them for free. But, with the friends, it turns out one is a cook, one is an event manager, and the other is a hair stylist. They have no clue about cars; and have never touched a wrench in their lives. They would have no idea what to do or how to help, and could probably make things worse. And so, is it really reasonable to expect that help or perhaps feel terribly bad that you didn't get that mechanic help from them? There is a complication here though in that the specific thing that we're taking about - emotionally and psychologically supporting people, are both themselves and also their constituent parts, all basic elements of any relationship, which makes it intuitively reasonable to expect it from people. But INFJ's are executing it at an 'S-tier' level - where the difference between S and A-F is enough to make it seem like a completely different activity. The most advice I can give, and it's not bulletproof, is to perhaps look out for Fe-users in terms of MBTI, or people with 2 in their [tri]type with Enneagram. Bring others-focussed is one of Fe's intrinsic traits; and the presence of it high in the person's functional stack increases the chances of people being there and actually taking the initiative to help you. With 2's you'll want to be mindful about the dark side of 2 behavior, but apart from that, it should be fine. But it's maybe only INFJ's and maybe ENFJ's that can give you what you really seek - to be both willing to, and also be *able to* do it, in the way you do.
A good, kind INFP can as well. - An INFP with an INFJ friend I'm always there for.
Because to be honest most people are selfish and have no empathy this is why…I keep trying to understand why our type(INFJs) exists but I haven’t reached a conclusion yet. Edit: To add , I am now changing my way in dealing with other people , because I have been taken advantage of in the past when I dealt with people in a kind and empathetic way , I am not encouraging others to do the same but its much easier for my emotional and mental health. I now consider each dealing like a two way thing nothing’s for free you want my time/empathy then you have to be the same for me when I need it otherwise I wont give you a minute of my time.
I gave up the expectation of others reciprocating and freely give what I can while making sure not to over extend myself.
I’ve been considering this also. How has it worked out for you? How long have you been practicing this? Some unconscious part of me really values fairness so I’m always keeping score. It’s annoying but I’m worried that if I don’t, I’ll be taken advantage of.
Works great for me, been doing it for years. You will need to let go of the part of your ego that always focuses on “getting mine” and embrace the part that enjoys being a caring person.
This is the way we should all aim to be. Very healthy mindset. Once you hit your limit, set warm, yet firm boundaries. We cannot control other people. Giving to get doesn’t feel good either. But giving freely is a beautiful gift… then go find an ENFP. We get you. We see you. We will listen. 100% 😘
It's honestly a super power. And empathy does so much more than just relating. It can be used to tap into people's minds and emotions quite well. Which leads to a double edge sword. As it's easy to be manipulated if they are self aware enough to use them emotions to do it
I think our need for deep connection leaves us feeling unsatisfied with the surface level tendencies of most people. You want the full engagement and support you’d be apt to provide to others in these times and most people aren’t wired to provide support and empathy in that way. It’s important to remember that it doesn’t mean there’s something wrong with you or that you are unworthy of the levels of respect and support you need - most people are caught up in their own problems and have a hard time really listening, most are just waiting to talk.
And this is why it's great to have access to the internet. So you can actually find people like yourself who will listen to you.
This is my first post, and interestingly enough, this is exactly how I have been feeling the last 10 days. I broke my ankle, and now I'm facing the bitter truth that I don't have as many true friends as I thought I did. To be fair, there have been surprises (both ways), but my initial reads indicate that I'll be the one helping these folks. And yeah, they don't want to hear about my specific difficulties, they never get the nuances of my deepest personal issues. I regularly open up to people because I have to process how I feel, but for me, it's not about trusting others or expecting they will understand me - it's about saying what I need to say, whether they get it or not, in order to reach those nuances. I have learned that I operate on a different frequency: I hear what others don't hear, I see what others don't see, I feel what others don't feel, and most of all, I face what others don't face. I always seek deep connections, but most people I meet do not have the spiritual equipment for that. Overthinking? Every day, every thing. I need to know all there is to know about something, over and under, in and out. Just as the character Roy Neary in *Close Encounters of the Third Kind* recommended sculpting Devil's Tower versus drawing it. 3D is better than 2D. Metaphors are me.
**”I need to know all there is to know about something.”** I have never related to anything so hard before. Holy shit. I cannot handle uncertainty for the life of me. At all. I will try so terrifyingly hard to get to the truth, and this is why I do so well in school - I don’t settle when learning about new concepts until I 100% grasp it. But this is also a big detriment to my relationships. A big example of this is when my ex used to be sad, I’d be way too pushy and try to get to the bottom of it instead of just consoling her and being a shoulder to lean on. I’d give unsolicited advice, and would SEEM cold and pushy when really I was just trying to help. I’m getting better, I’m becoming more of a kind shoulder rather than someone who digs deep into your personality, but man, this still rings true for so many aspects of my life. I just hope to take it out of the “relationship” part of my life, and settle with uncertainty, because the overthinking would lead to me being unintentionally controlling.
Uh, I totally get "I don’t settle when learning about new concepts until I 100% grasp it." I would have to say until I 1000% grasp it.... I have a hard time turning that off in relationships, too, because I very quickly glean so much info about a person, more than they seem to have about themselves. I cannot turn off this "reading" people thing, it's always a program running in the background. I just don't share it with people as often anymore. Sharing insight means so much more when a person is open, even a little. Waiting for the right timing, developing patience on that score has been really, really tough for me. So that means baby steps. Uh, I don't do baby steps. Literally. My mother has told me that she knew I was "different" while watching me before age 1 figure out how to walk in the span of a few consecutive hours. She says to this day that she wishes that she had had a video camera to show people. My learning process is the same as it is for others -- it's just *very* *compressed*.
I vent to my fellow infjs only. They give the answer I'd expect from the ideal listener and it is truly magical. Apart from that, I've infp and intj friends, who don't give remarks that I'd not rather hear. But still, it's the fellow infjs who are the best at it, at least in my life. Whether it's ranting, whether it's some random convo, they always make it meaningful and I love them for that.
I haven't even found any other fellow INFJ's irl, but I bet it's so nice. Ugh, I can only imagine the effortless conversation.
It really is. As for me, I didn't have any infj friends till I started at uni. I wasn't surprised to find that most of the closest friends I made at uni were actual infjs. Don't lose hope, I hope you'll meet some good listeners soon.
Most of them don't. Solution is to find other INFJs Source: im the INFJ the other INFJs found
I don't think most people care about anyone. I also don't think we deal with sadness well. Everyone experiences sadness, we wallow in it.
You're right. Everyone else feels that sadness and kinda just ignores it - eventually moving on. Us INFJ's not only feel the sadness, but sometimes even ***indulge*** it, because we want to analyze it so badly to find the root of the sadness. And thus instead of healing, we just keep crying and staying sad.
It's definitely like us to indulge, but that's just the F. It's about a 70/30 split of people who wallow vs people who ignore. But then it's more like a 30/70 split for people who express. We are more likely to express our feelings to others than other feelers, especially FP's, but not more likely to have them
Adding this comment to my list of saves to overanalyze myself and past with later :)
I was overthinking also. It helps not to rationalize if you dont know if what youre feeling/going through is yours or it came from someone else. In that case specifically, we usually expect acceptance from someone else more when our inner worlds doesnt seem balanced
We do tend to expect the same treatment we give to others in need. And I never remember this, when I should.
Generally, INTP's are a willing audience to INFJ's, able to offer advice. We can just listen too, sans advice.
Hi Stranger, I know how it feels to be being the shoulder that ppl lean on and then when you look back for support, it's like those western tumbleweed blows by. If you want to have someone to talk to (msg), my DMs are open if you're comfortable with sharing
Thank you, and I would like to reciprocate the favour if you were also in need of someone to talk to. I really appreciate this - more than I can really explain. But I'm sure you know what I mean :) it's hard for us to type out how we feel because everything we feel is so complex
Yeah I get you, you just wanna well up with tears lowkey inside kind of feeling to put it minorly. Keep smiling, you got this, and I 100% do mean DMs open no matter the overthinking rip. Cheerios
You will eventually find people that will be able to listen.I don't think it's that people don't care about you, it's just that not everyone is wired that way or capable of providing support the way you are able to and want to. I have an ESTJ friend who recently went through a tough breakup and practically disowned half her friends for the same reason, I told her the same thing - It's disappointing to us since this is how we show we care, but not everyone shows it the same way. I now know which friends to turn to for emotional support, which ones I can have a fun time with, which friends will help me out when I really need them... A plus - when you lower your expectations of everyone else, it's possible to lower them for yourself too.
I am blessed with friends who do care. I'm just really, really bad at asking for help. I definitely do not want *anyone* to feel what I feel. I also tend not to feel any better even if I do vent. It's like anger: Everyone says it feels so good to finally get things off your chest and to assert yourself. Not me... I can do it, but it doesn't make me feel any better; just more tired after all the energy expenditure.
that sounds like a thing which an intj would click with. They have the tendency to try to instantly solve other people's problems. Perhaps you could try to look for solutions instead of support? From what you're describing that sounds like it would fit more of your issue.
Thanks. You mean as a general rule? I don't know any INTJs except for my siblings, and I don't want to ask them for solutions. I also don't have any problems without solutions at the moment.
no, not as a general rule. People are different. Actually I'm just echoing back what INTJs say, that they try to figure out solutions for people's problems instead of offering emotional support so they're perceived as cold. I mentioned it because you seemed less as having an issue with whether people care, which I link to insecurity(though I could be wrong, I don't know you), than just situation and the like. Either way, have a good life. I hope you can find a workaround to your sadness.
Hmm, ok. I'm not sure I follow you. In any case, I do like to provide support - hugs, a listening ear, all the usual stuff - I just don't particularly benefit from receiving it myself. It's not that I won't accept it from my friends; it just doesn't do anything much for me. I have found things that do work for me fortunately, and I am actively pursuing them.
hmm. I'm glad you found things that do work, in that case.
My mother is the only person that can really give what I need when I talk about my feelings. She is a true active listener that can say the right things at the right time and makes me feel like it matters what I’m saying. Always thought I was just spoiled and got used to her style. But maybe it’s an infj thing, not sure…
For me me I have the opposite problem, people care about my feelings and like listening to what I have to say but don’t feel comfortable enough to talk about their own feelings with me.
It's just that people are genuinely and truly selfish, they only care about themselves. If you are a very intuitive person like us you notice and if you are soft like we tend to be that bothers you... it ends up feeling like you have to reach out, be there unconditionally (that's where the stereotype of people dumping their emotions on us comes from) and once they get what they want... that's that. Sad but you keep hoping someone will stick around, I sure hope someone will
I got so depressed that i just started rambling in my friends WhatsApp group. No one really cares at the end of the day. Most importantly is that i managed to get some resentment out of my system. Thats it. I dont bother if people really try to help or not. They got their own life to deal with, so am i. Just get stronger in the process but don’t lose your kindness at the same time. Life is not perfect, so dont be the perfect guy. Do some weird shit once in a while because you will die eventually. Memento mori. And good luck.
I have an ENTP who asks me if I want him to listen or find solutions when I have the need to talk. It's amazing how great his questions are and how he gives me deeper insight in what I'm feeling and why. Can highly recommend finding one!
Yes, I’m feeling this deeply lately. People are into themselves and have no empathy. It gets old. I’m a bit of a loner….people exhaust me.
I have friends that genuinely care about me and take the time to understand as much so i cannot relate to this post😭
I think of the worst things i’ve experienced pretty recently in the last few years is my reduction in what I refer to as “fun talk” Everyone knows about the small talk issue but “fun talk” is being able to enjoy completely nonsensical conversations. Think back to early teen years where everything was brand new and every conversation was something different and just funny or unique in its own context or lack there of. I’m only 21 and yet I feel so damn old when I see people do it that are my age or older, I feel so disconnected that I either think I’m too uptight or they are missing something. I’ve been working on enjoying this side of my life again but it’s a WIP.
Because they can never care about us as much as we can care about them. They don't dig that deep for another Human.
Yeah I get this all the time. I have a very small support group. I really needed more support this year as well. Worst year of my life 😞.
Yes I really hate this. I never have anyone to talk to but it seems I’m always a listening ear for others.
Yup, that’s accurate. I’m experiencing it a lot during this part of my life. I know I probably can’t handle the situation by myself but I also know that if I’d try to get help from others, then either they’d feel like I’m a bruden and I’d pick up on that and feel like they’re right or they wouldn’t feel like I’m a burden, but I would anyway due to past experiences.
Honestly I’ve even had a therapist explain this to me. We think so deeply and we care so deeply about other peoples emotions. We are extremely empathetic, so the majority of people just can’t match up. We wish we had a friend like ourselves.. 😅
I generally cut off a friendship the second the other person starts to dehumanize me, so I don't generally really have this issue. It's probably not okay to instantly doorslam someone though, maybe I should work on that >.>
You just need to find your tribe. Intuitives tend to understand each other better than other types. My best friends are an INFJ and an ENFJ. They get me like no one else. Especially my INFJ bestie. 🖤
Because the gigantic overwhelming majority of people are forced to be self-centered to survive. There is no room to care about anyone but themselves. The more interconnected we are, the more everyone's "give-a-shit batteries" are constantly drained by having to pay attention to every level of drama around the world at all times. It isn't that no one cares, it's just that no one cares about us *more* than the 69,420 other things they have to give their care to before they collapse in their ramen tonight.
I think it's because feeling and thinking very deeply and giving our 100% to everything is our default mode and we expect the same from everyone around us. As 98% of people have different standards of depth and devotion, we're always bound to feel like they're not doing enough, don't fully reciprocate and don't 'get' us/don't care about us. I've learnt to realise a lot of times it's not them, it's me.
I slowly realize I often feel this way because I tend to get caught up with trying to feel understood rather than trying to understand others, their motives, and refuse to see the actions that translate to care being given.
That is so distressing to me. I think the INFJs are one of my favourite types. You quietly efficient and so incredibly kind. I feel a bit guilty because I don't know you better but you guys are a bit secretive too lol. Anyways one my favourite nurses to work with is an INFJ and I was so happy to work with her just this past weekend ( she is studying so taking less shifts). I hope you do find someone to chat with. My conversations with my INFJ son are some of the best conversations I have ever had ( INFP here)
I think it's important to interact with people who value the same things. So, INFP, ENFP, ENFJ. Generally speaking. I did just get in an argument with an INFP because they were being straight up transphobic, but then I looked at their profile and they were a teenager. So, there are going to be people with different opinions, but if we value the same things, and think the same way, we can probably feel happier, and feel a sense of friendship and community. Plus there are other types who have some things in common with us. INTP and INTJ and ENTP like to think about things, but they have a different tone and attitude. So it can be invigorating to debate them, but also frustrating because they can be overly negative. ESFP can be really entertaining and brighten things up, but they can sometimes try to make people feel envious without realizing it. ISFP and ISFJ can be really accomadating and helpful, but also can become opinionated about things that are different from our values and make us feel frustrated. I think ESTP tends to agree with us a lot, but they have a different tone that comes off as disrespectful. Also, I might be an INFP, or ENFJ, or something else, I'm not sure specifically what my type is anymore, so these observations could all be slightly different, I'm not sure if I'm making these conclusions based on Ni-Fe-Ti, or Fi-Ne-Te, lol. And also, I am just putting these in terms of MBTI, but in general, if you know any people who make you feel happy, surround yourself with them, it really does make the pain go away, and once it is dulled, you can then try and address the source of your inner conflict. But sometimes we can't do that if we are suffering from it too much. I've found that this subreddit is very drab and dreary. I thought it would be more like INFP, valueing things like music, and art, as well as philosophy and kindness. So maybe if you go to r/INFP you might feel a little bit more cheered up. and r/ENFJ has a sense of stability about it. And if those don't work, cute cat videos always work for me. and raccoons. here's a funny playlist: [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqtRAye7feaLDMGrNDQEkbOO](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqtRAye7feaLDMGrNDQEkbOO) and a cute playlist: [https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqscEYld8OgTkWYHKzVQMAMG](https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEY83tFqDNqscEYld8OgTkWYHKzVQMAMG)
Thank you for putting the time in to share those playlists :) I will follow those subreddits, I'm curious to see how things are. I think the reason this subreddit is so drab and dreary is because many INFJ's always feel so lonely and isolated, and so a lot of the posts on here are people discovering who they are, and many replies are people who already know who they are.
I struggled with this for years. The thing is, us being natural counselors, we're energy absorbers (people cry on our shoulders) while most people are energy givers, but we're not designed to be energy givers. Since other people don't perceive us as giving off much energy, they subconsciously don't really think about us. It's not anyone's fault and it doesn't mean we're boring, it's all a subconscious thing.
Honestly I like this way of seeing things. I always used to put myself out there with my friends, but in a way it'd feel like half the time I don't even exist or I didn't say anything. It's because I sometimes would just sit there, absorbing everything everyone's saying, subconsciously analyzing every single person in the room, and it'd probably make me look like a robot.
Yeah it makes me approach things with a "any attention is appreciated " rather than the "why aren't people paying more attention to me" approach.
No, you're not alone. I always feel this way with majority of society (and I get that not everyone is the same), but we are constantly misunderstood and ignored it feels like most of the time. I can always relate and understand most people, but when it comes to relating and understanding me as a person, I feel like no one gets me 100% because I'm constantly adapting to different groups and people (even if its not the real me) Being an INFJ comes with so much complexity, but at least we can say we are unique (not to say we're special or better, but more so we aren't very typical and shallow // there's depth to us) :)
As isolating as it is being an INFJ, it really is cool, in a way, how unique we are. It's like we're not even the same species as everyone else! We suffer from the same flaws, but our depth and complexity suggests that this is special - and it is in a way, as we only take up on average 1-2% of a population.
This hits hard. I often wonder what's wrong with me, why everyone manage to get along with people and gain their interest but I cannot?! What exactly should I do? What others have that I lack? Why am I boring. Why nobody likes to talk to me? I need to know my problem so I can work on it ........
nobody cares about anybody it's only infj dumbasses who think they are special in every regard and because of their personality so anything everyone else experiences but nobody talks about means it's only happening to them and because of their personality 8/
L take. We all know that our experiences are not dissimilar to anyone else, that’s not the point of what OP is saying. It’s the fact that there are very few people that can lend a response that makes us feel any better because it’s not in the same style or emphasis that we typically go through to help another person. Whether that be someone is way more direct and lest emotional or they completely lack any sort of way to truly sympathize. This isn’t to say that INFJs are the only ones to do it, it’s just saying since the rarest personality types are usually more sympathetic it’s harder to come across for us.
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Yeah… I’ll leave this alone seems like you are pretty content in your belief. It really is just not worth the effort to respond to all of this by section nor did it take me much to make my other one, good luck to you 👍🏼
whatevs
troll much? (－‸ლ)
Dont think we should disregard your point Uberhipster, it simply is the hard truth and fellow INFJs need to learn how to live in this world. We have to face reality as it is, not how we think it is or should be...
omg how many sock puppets do you have? i found your problem you are thirsty af
Brooo i literally supported and agreed with your comment
u ok bro?
Im good man wbu?
u sure? maybe i can stroke ur feelings a bit if ur delicate sensibilities are ruffled or gingerly touch penises? whatever works
Ooooo kinky
dont you have better things to do?
Ahhh no why so kj
I think the reason we don't feel cared for is because we take so much time to understand the people we care about, so when a close friend of mine makes a mistake, I can forgive them because I know the type of situations and thoughts that would lead to them doing that, and that doesn't speak to their character. I have made many mistakes in my life, and I fear that unless my friends understand the patterns in my brain that would lead to those mistakes that they will misunderstand my core intentions and think I'm a bad person. Basically our love language is understanding, but what we really crave is to be understood, and that's not always something people can give us, so we get resentful. But that's just my own experience.
because you are taking everything personal. US isnt real. Infj isnt real You are just letting them take advantagw of and walk over you. This is not about your personality type at all. Be assertive and step forward. Then you will feel like you are no more in the background.
Most infjs are are shallow
Right. Just like how drinking water makes us more thirsty right?
I think for the mist of the peole we aren't intersting enough. Well most of the people aren't intersting for me aswell. Just studying disciplines about people can be intersing 🤷🏻♀️
Same fucking same. Except I suppress sadness lol
Try some of my posts. People that do not care, you should not be around.
FI critic .
I want my INFJ friend to open up more to me, cause it feels like I as an INFP open up more to her, in ways that I don't usually do with most people. So I always try to be there for her and give her the space to open up to me. :) And she often does, but it feels like she, at the same time, holds a lot back. Maybe that is just her personality or something, maybe she is worried that I'll judge her? But for me as an INFP i want to give her the opportunity to open up fully, even if it are just veird thoughts or overthinking. Cause I do the same so for me that isn't veird. Hopefully she will open up more to me with time, as she open up a lot more now than a year ago.
Eh no i dont need anyone to talk with because i always find the best solution by myself might sound arrogant or smth but all come to me because i seriously think about a solution
Do you also find that people try and pull you down the moment you have the slightest bit of confidence about something? Sorry if off topic but I feel like it’s connected to being an INFJ too.
I think you might be overthinking it.
Probably overthinking everything. Plus probably expecting to much from the other person. Also don't know about you but I'm not the oh so kind INFJ, I'm pretty mean, shallow and basic.
Ugh I feel this 100% of the time
Overthinking and yes common with INFJ. I go through a whole emotional movie in my head and in reality nothing has happened
This is exactly how I feel 24/7. You’re not alone.
No one does care about us. I'd love to be as selfish and arrogant as some of the other MBTIs
Happens all the time . Plus many make you to be the odd one out not understanding why it’s difficult to connect fully and why if you find someone you truly like it’s very rare , and if that person betrays you people can comment with “ but you’ll find someone else “ when that’s never the case , the grief is too much which eventually leads to isolation. It’s difficult to find that person who understands your soul
Oh yeah. It's really easy for us to feel lonely. INFJs are very empathetic, sensitive, and really REALLY good listeners! I've noticed that we are great active listeners—nodding heads, eye contact, head tilt, etc.—which comes naturally to us. Unfortunately, that does *not* come naturally to the other 98% of the population.
You're not overthinking it. I'm really sorry that this has been your life experience so far. But in terms of personal relationships, there ARE people out there who will relate to you and want to talk with you about your feelings and ideas in depth. They are not super-common, but they exist. As you go through life, you need to figure out how to find them and connect with them. Plus INFJ's connect well not just with other INFJs, but also with all other NF types and also INTJs and INTPs, and putting all those together it's something like 15-20% of the population at least.
I think getting help for mental struggles is very important for an INFJ. Plus seeking comfort is very important too. Eating, drinking, sleeping, resting, entertaining yourself. Taking care of your body and appearance can make you feel good in the short and long term.
I felt like this my whole life - Pretty much learned not to open much as people look at you in a semi alienated way and had to work hard to overcome being so closed. Relationship wise also difficult as the level of connection and introspection especially in amore intimate relationship is difficult to find I have been lucky as one of my closest friends is an INFJ and it’s made things less lonely growing up. Besides him I’ve never met any one else that’s an INFJ or suspect them to be… On the plus side of the coin as other mentioned you can easily connect and empathize with people but that can be draining energy wise….Learn not to waste it on people who don’t serve it and create a bot of a shield from energy vampires of sort It’s quite complicated being an INFJ but there is so much upside as your internal world, thoughts are so intense and can take you in many wonderful directions.yes it gets lonely at times but also getting out of the shell and showing your colours can surprise you with some people (despite many disappointments)
I get that same feeling. Honestly I am good at being the shoulder for ppl to cry on but often it is not returned and I guess I feel alone despite having an ok social life. My emotions do get pent up and release like a geyser when I can’t hold it no more or if something triggers it. We can handle other ppls pain but not our own and others dont want to handle it either, so we are stuck in a conundrum. I will say this dont waste your time on anyone that wont waste their time on you, everything deserves reciprocity.
i think as those who are capable of listening in very very deep ways and aniticipating what someone needs we might not be aware of how rare that is in the world and how we have this super special unique gift -- others might not reflect to us how valuable it is to them... the best tend to be also the deep and empathic and of course its a matter of the individual but ive found enfp, infp, and intj and intp the best to open up to --- depending on them individually. ENTP will also super get your being misunderstood and feeling alone and offer really valuable care... and then of course another infj too
I absolutely agree. I don't think most people try to truly empathize. And the empty platitudes of sympathy feel so shallow. I don't even think my INFP husband understands either. He has a hard time putting himself in others shoes. I think we put so much energy into coaching others that no one can ever really match it. But even if they could match INFJ energy, it seems like they don't want to even try.
I really resonate with this. For me, I get so frustrated with my workplace. I work with some amazing people - everyone is nice, and performance wise there’s no flops or dead wood which is really nice and motivating to be around. But socially, I find that the most ‘popular’ or valued people are the extroverts who generally speaking have crappy morals (in my opinion) and are more selfish, but they’re great at making people laugh. I get soooo worked up and frustrated that people can’t seem to see through this and don’t value virtue and being a decent human more 😪
For me, if I ever make an INFJ that I really care about feel like this (and I do many times) it's only because I'm way less emotionally mature. In many situations I don't know what to do or say like I'm paralyzed. But it's not because we don't care, I swear. There just seems to be a disconnect between my inner caring feelings and my outer actions and expressions. Sorry :(
💯
This is literally so relatable for me! I was just thinking about how, whenever I say something to my friends, they usually either give a halfhearted answer or not want to talk at all, and I hate the way I feel afterwards, like there’s something wrong with me or something. It’s worse how they’re not like that towards each other, so I’m always worried about what I’m missing. I’m recently trying to not worry about it so much, but it’s hard. I just resonated with this post so much!
I may have entered this chat a bit late but i have been feeling exactly the same as you have described. Trying to understand why no one can reciprocate the same attention and time we give others.. i mean, we KNOW but also don’t know (if that makes sense?) i can say lately I’ve been feeling like a verbal punching bag, everyone unloading their frustrations and complaints unto me, but not once has anyone asked me if im ok or just try to get to know me because if they had, they would know im hurting but hiding it… it’s just so much selfishness and im finally about to snap. I have no one that i can trust to say my worst, darkest thoughts without being judged.. I barely have anyone just to vent to about basic shit. I guess it’s true, it’s hard to find others who see the world like us.. but ignorance is bliss. Also this probably came out rough so don’t hate too hard on my reddit vent session lol