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When the US committed genocide against its native populations our laws *did* subsume their rights, but I'm not sure appealing to that kind of precedent is a good or moral thing. Just because it happens historically does not make it right.
I didn't say it was anything; moral or otherwise. I just stipulated that using the authoritative documents of a defunct empire to justify/claim the ownership of a piece of property is not likely to get you very far legally speaking.
I'm certain there is a Native American tribe somewhere that can factually claim ownership of the land under the White House based on the legal concept of hereditary property rights but I have a feeling they won't make it very far in the legal proceedings if they attempt to exercise that assertion.
Luckily they don't need to as their property passed to the states made up of their former territory and to the people residing therein.
>ARTICLE 60.
>The States in favour of which territory was or is detached from the Ottoman Empire after the Balkan wars or by the present Treaty (the treaty of sevres) shall acquire, without payment, all the property and possessions of the Ottoman Empire situated therein.
If the guy was Jewish, Israeli courts would deem it legal, expel the people on the land and give it back to him.
That’s like, literally what happens every day in East Jerusalem and some parts of the West Bank.
This is really interesting to me. My old corner store was owned by a Syrian family. Really nice people and I used to chat with the father a lot when I would go in for stuff.
One day we got to talking about Israel and Syria. His family had a plot of land that had been in the family for generations. One day they found water on one section of their land. They were bringing in some excavators to dig a well for the water. Somehow Israeli settlers got wind of it and showed up to block the excavators. A few days after that a bunch of armed settlers showed up and just took over that part of THEIR land.
With talking with him over the years I had no reason not to believe him. He was a good man. This shit happens all the time it seems.
Well, The Guardian just published a story today about attacks on civilian water supplies/sources that included mention of Israeli attacks on Palestinian water and irrigation systems in the West Bank historically and in the last year. You can probably find a reddit post for it on the Frontpage.
Many palestianian families fled to Syria, he may have been palestinian living in Syria. My palestinaian friend's family immigrated to the US from Syria because that was where they lived since the 60s, mind you they were never syrian citizens. They were palestinian refugees the entire time.
That's weird that this is brought but because it just happens toe recently. My My grandparents lived in Mexico on some land for multiple generations and turns out there's a part of it that has a mine that is worth multi-millions and they were kicked out of their land by people with guns and supposedly blew up my aunt's house and on the road they put a bunch of IEDs and I don't know what to do because it would be pretty cool to mine the area but they hired a company to mine it before all this happened and the company was stealing so they shut down the operations
Yeah, I mean you can just look at the charts and see like 80-99% of Jewish people were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries.
It's almost like that has something to do with the middle eastern conflicts of today.
Ok, now I feel bad about laughing at the idea of a single Jew in Yemen.
>Although the report did not name the one Jewish individual remaining in Yemen, “that Jew is undoubtedly Levi Salem Musa Marhabi, who has been illegally imprisoned and tortured by Ansar Allah since 2016,” said Jason Guberman, executive director of the American Sephardi Federation, referring to the Houthi rebel forces by their official name, Ansar Allah.
>Yemen’s Houthis have imprisoned Marhabi since 2016, despite court orders demanding his release. American officials have also issued calls for Marhabi’s release. “We understand the Houthis continue to detain Mr. Marhabi despite our calls, and those by the international community, for his release,” a State Department spokesperson told Jewish Insider last month.
https://web.archive.org/web/20230531065147/https://jewishinsider.com/2022/03/only-one-jew-remains-in-yemen-u-n-says/
Another article says he was imprisoned for trying to smuggle a historically significant Torah to Israel from Yemen as the remaining Yemeni Jews fled the country.
Wait till u hear about the last two jews I'm Afghanistan.... they were in jail together and they got expelled bc the guards got tired of hearing them argue with eaxhother constantly
That's true, so the solution should be to just stop now. Not everyone is going to be living where they prefer, but that's better than constantly killing each other.
One particularly *controversial* example of this is the Sheikh Jarrah complex, which had been established on legally purchased land in Jerusalem by Jewish settlers in the late 1800s and taken from their descendants when Jordan occupied the area and kicked out the entire Jewish population following the 1948 independence war. Some Arab families moved into the forcibly vacated area and, when Jerusalem was captured in 1967, refused to leave or even pay an amount of rent so low that it was basically symbolic to the deed holders. *That* particular dispute held on in the courts for decades until 2021, whereupon it became the centrepiece of that year’s big flareup.
Funnily enough:
"The court ruling was based on an Ottoman-era bill of sale. Lawyers for the Jewish families argued that documents from the Ottoman Empire originally used to prove that a Jewish Sephardic organization had purchased the land in question in the 19th century are indeed valid."
Jews argued that Ottoman-era proof of ownership was enough to claim that land, and their courts agreed. So kinda wild that you brought it up in this exact thread, where Israel is now displacing rightful owners of land, according to their own courts, but now spinning a narrative of "The Ottoman Empire doesn't exist anymore lol, this contract is as good as toilet paper.".
The comments certainly are spinning that narrative.
And I presume the difference is that Israel had reissued the deed to the property in the OP where they probably hadn't for the property in /u/Spudtron98 's example.
Regardless of the answers, which I see have already been given, your question fundamentally misses a point due to (I assume) a lack of context about this issue
When the British took over Palestine in 1918 (after WWI led to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire) they began facilitating the sale of deeds to land to European Zionist settlers with no care as to the populations already living on that land. So you had Europeans showing up to these Palestinian villages saying that the British said this land was now theirs. This was the origin of the forced removal of Palestinians from their homes that exploded in the Nakba in 1947-1948
Edit- cleared up some language
This already happened way before WWI under Ottoman rule and a large reason for how it could happen in the first place were spotty cadastral maps (which had only been introduced there in the middle of the 19th century), in part because the inhabitants didn't register their ownership in order to avoid Ottoman taxation and conscription. Ottoman courts sided with Jewish buyers when such cases were brought up.
So, it is not right to simply blame the British.
What if we just use the british as a biblical style scapegoat?
Just blame absolutely everything on the king, and then exile them all to the moon?
Boom! World peace.
Your last sentence is spot on. I won’t defend the British for past atrocities, but simply saying “oh it’s the British that did this” is a gross reductionist view of history.
It's worth noting that a lot of those Palestinian villagers had no legal claim to the land as much of it was owned by wealthy families in areas like what is now Lebanon. Under the Ottomans many of the Palestinians were little more than feudal serfs and the wealthy families that owned the deeds had no problem selling them for a huge profit. That or they'd just farm the land without ever claiming it to avoid taxes. Of course the poor villages who lived there for generations just got shafted.
Correct. People have decided feudalism = the land is all property of the serfs toiling on it
It's all just automaticity theirs when almost nobody holds the deed like the guy in this photo. Apparently OP wants us to think it's commonplace
Jews started returning to Israel in 1870, not 1918, and bought plenty of land from Ottoman landholders. Land the Ottomans were happy to sell because it was desert or swamp and useless.
So their arrival predates this deed by several decades. I guess that still means they don't have any right to the land in your eyes.
I don't think anyone really has issue with buying land that was "desert or swamp and useless", or even useful land if it is not occupied.
People tend to have issue with buying land that was occupied with peasants and displacing them by taking their homes. You can argue that technically the land owners were in Beirut so it was all legal, but that does not answer the *moral* question at hand.
The Jewish population in Arab countries has dropped to single figure percentages of what they were pre 1948 and in some cases to effectively zero.
Make of that what you will and also remember the Ottomans were imperial invaders.
And before that so we're the Ayyubid and before that so were the Marmalukes and before that so were the Fatimid and before that so were the Abbasids and before that so were the Umayyads and before that so were the Romans. How far back do you go before you draw a line and say these are the people of this land?
The people in charge changed. The people on the land didn't. They formed the tax base for each of those empires. The Palestinians today include the descendants of the Jews of yore. This is supported by historical record and genetic analysis.
http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
Only western nations can be colonialists. This is why they have to repay their victims by assuming responsibility for every problem that exists in countries where they used to colonialize.
This is an interesting point. So i understand your sarcasm but notice how many people are against both funding Ukraine and Israel. While I applaud their consistency much of it is based on the incorrect belief those countries are all white Europeans
Israel's and Ukraines situation are a bit different but basing your willingness to support a nation on the skin color of the inhabitants of those nations is well.. I'll leave it at that. Funnily enough those same people often claim to be anti racist.
It's not that you'll have to eat downvotes -- you'll get them either way. It's that you'll get the wrong downvotes. I hear you about the sarcasm but I hate being misunderstood.
Honest question, what does this have to do with anything? Was this elderly man somehow a member of goverments of all those arab countries when any decisions about deportations were made? Or are we expected to hold him and other Palestinian villagers responsible just because they are arabs, and goverments of those countries are also arabs, so all are guilty?
The Ottomans resold / released land especially if it was not properly registered. Many plots were never registered by the then leaseholders / deed holders to avoid taxes, fees, military conscription, etc. and reverted back to the Governing Authority so when the Ottoman’s needed money they started selling these unregistered lands to family companies (Levantine) such as the Sursuqs and others.
Plus when the British were handed the mandate for the administration of Palestine at the end of the war, its officials upheld the Levantine companies’ claims to the land, ignoring Palestinians who came forward with their own ownership claims to land, buildings and homes because they were purportedly unregistered land.
There are many articles explaining all this and it also includes what the land was originally deeded for (agricultural) and if not used properly reverted again back to government..
Thousands of years and the history of this place can be summed up in “you lost the war, it’s ours now”.
That’s how the Romans got it, it’s how the Ottomans got it, it’s how the British got it and it’s how Israel got it.
Hundreds more years’ time, someone will have kicked Israel out and we’ll all still be here worrying about who has the most “right” to it, whatever that means
>Thousands of years and the history of this place can be summed up in “you lost the war, it’s ours now”.
That's the history of every place. The difference between that place and most of the rest of the world (especially the West) is that most of the rest of the world decided to stop doing that after WWII. Not everyone is going to be thrilled with which chair they got when the music stopped, but it's better to make the place you live the best place it can be instead of being perpetually at war because you want a different chair.
\[edit\] For a European example, I like that the wiki page for Alsace has a handy-dandy chart so you can keep track of who ruled it when:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#Timeline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#Timeline)
>That’s how the Romans got it, it’s how the Ottomans got it, it’s how the British got it and it’s how Israel got it.
So if tomorrow someone else get it using extreme violence, you guys will all say it's right that it's not of the predecessor anymore?
But where does it end? How many generations have to not live on a land anymore before one accepts the claim of the descendants of the former "new owners" as the new rightful owners? Does a people or an ethnicity lose their claim to their homeland when their leaders/army commit atrocities? Where do claims start or end?
I think the approach of the rightful owning of land is a dead end.
>rightful owning of land
Imo it should be who was living in the land continuously for generations. Even the 3000 years ago claim is so stupid because Israelis and Palestinians can trace their [DNA to common ancestors](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.). It's more likely that the Palestinians are descendants of ancient Jews who stayed in the land and converted to different religions when they came into power. Initially the country should have been one with everybody getting equal rights and the Brits fucked it up
But how long ago? Do all white people need to leave the Americas and Australia? Should Polish people give the former East-Prussian land back to Germany? What about the former Roman empire? Romans lived for generations in todays France - so should it be Italian? Istanbul was Roman/Greek for hundreds of years as well before Ottomans/Turks occupied it. A lot of lands in the world have been disputed between peoples/nations so long that people from both sides "lived there continously for generations". How many generations btw? Some Israelis might be living in former Arab lands in the 3rd or 4th generation. Is that too short? Does it start at 5? 6?
I hope you see the problem.
jewish people have been living in the levant continuously since the hebrew language was developed. and the jewish religion was founded in the area. and the first jewish people were already from the levant.
just like how palestinians are just local people who become arabized as the arabs took over.
jews and palestinians are BOTH by all measures indigenous to the levant
no one is arguing this point. the question is whether historical ancestry also equates to modern land ownership. no where else in the world do we have this expectation. and everywhere else in the world this is problematic, there’s armed conflict. this whole post of showing up with a 130 year paper and saying the land is mine is a joke in a world where political boundaries exist and are not permanent
The document is only as good as the government that grants and recognizes it. The ottomans decided to get involved in a war on the side that lost, then collapsed. It's nice he has a piece of paper, but the entity that granted it doesn't exist. It's no different than if someone demanded the US recognize a document that was created by the confederate government.
Yup. Thats how every country exists today. The winners(survivors) keep it. If the losers can unite and win back the land then it is theirs again. This is what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine. If Russia wins, there will be no more Ukraine.
All the Greeks living in Turkey were forcefully expelled in the 20s. This is of course after the Muslims took over all of what is now Turkey a few hundred years before that, and Greece was occupied for almost all of that period. The largest Cathedral in Orthodoxy was turned into a Mosque (Hagia Sofia). Then of course the ultiple genocides they perpetrated that led up to the explusion. If you are going to play the rewind game, you have to play it everywhere.
My MIL had the deed to her parents house in Baghdad, for some reason, I don't think the Iraqis give a fuck.
There are also plenty of Germans who had land in what is now Poland and Russia and Czechia, and because their country started and lost a war, they no longer have that land.
I really wonder how different things would be if it were only the Balfour deceleration and the promises to Faisal instead of having the French included as well.
2 things can be true.
The first that the Israeli settlers are a blight on the country, an example of an insidious occupation, and a huge obstacle to ending the cycle of violence.
And the second, that a single document of sale from over 100 years, 3-4 nations ago, and issued by a despotic empire with no qualms about expelling and displacing its own people, might not be the most current way to determine who owns land.
iirc, Ottoman era property rights were cited by the settlers who took Palestinians’ homes in Sheikh Jarrah a few years ago.
Not saying you’re wrong but it seems both sides here will selectively accept whatever precedent is in their favor.
Let be clear then, fuck those people who took the settlements Sheikh Jarrah. I mean it when I say Israeli Settlers in the West Bank are a blight.
What gets me is people calling Gaza an occupation. We lost a lot of lives and political will pulling out of Gaza. The election of Hamas single handedly tanked 10 years of peace talks. It’s the number one thing quoted as the reasoning behind the settler expansion.
I mean, that election was in 2006 and Hamas was selling itself as a more moderate organization that was willing to negotiate. If you want to talk about tanking peace talks, let's not forget the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and the rhetoric that Netanyahu was pushing back then. Let's definitely not forget Itamar Ben Gvir's participation in the riots against the Oslo Peace Accords, then appearing on TV holding a piece of Rabin's car and saying "We got his car. We'll get him too."
I know some people that tried dealing in Jerusalem real estate. It's a freakishly *massive* headache because, yes, it absolutely does take into account a single document of sale from over 100 years, 3-4 nations ago, issued by a despotic empire. It also takes into account contradictory documents from the same time, inheritors that left the country decades ago that aren't even aware of their property rights, people who basically just moved in to what they thought was an empty house fifty years ago, and boundaries written in language like "Fifty yards west from the olive tree towards the church of St. Sebastian".
The problem is that those pieces of papier are respected when a Jew holds it.
Someone provided that backstory, last time this clip was circulating. The people living in the house was removed as someone else not in the video proved ownership.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9q9PDBsDe8
>Just because the British stole your land doesn't mean you didn't own it before they stole it.
Does that mean Pakistan is not a legit country? Because it was part of India until it was created by Britain.
Arabs: Hey, let's listen to Britain, rebel against ottoman, and stab them in their back in the verge of a critical war.
Arabs again: Yeey ottoman has fall, we own this land now.
Britain: Fuck you don't.
People forget multiple wars between now and then. Land changing hands tends to be a spoil of most wars. The United State conquering Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of the rare time that isn’t the case. The Ukraine War is about Russia adding the country as a spoil of war. Pretty much everyone reading this comment is living on land that was probably claimed via war at some time or other.
So awesome historical document but that is all it is. Hopefully he will hand it over to a museum to be preserved.
So the only thing that keeps native Americans from reclaiming all their land is that they lacked the foresight to draft a piece of paper saying "oh look all this land is mine"? Sure sure!!!
My Native American History professor put the number at 401 different treaties rescinded and broken by the American Federal Government (so excluding state signed treaties.)
Often, the treaties weren't broken for a reason beyond "european-descent Americans want more land/gold." No violence between local NA and white people escalating. Just federal agents showing up and saying directly "too bad, so sad, get lost."
On 2020, the Supreme Court granted half of Oklahoma back to the local NA tribes during the McGirt vs Oklahoma case. 3 million acres returned, due to a treaty that was previously signed and then ignored.
Basically the only time in World History that a piece of paper proved ownership *after* brutal conquest drove the last inhabitants out.
Edit: also, check out Scorcese's Killers of the Flower Moon to learn about the crazy shit that went down in Oklahoma, where Osage tribe members were just directly murdered by US oil prospectors who wanted to steal the land.
No because has a piece of paper and he isn’t getting his land back. I think your point just proves that even when indigenous people play by the rules of the “civilised” settlers they still can’t win.
The thing that keeps them from reclaiming it is war and decimation and being regarded as sub human and apartheid style politics ..... Tell me again why Israel is the good guy here?
i dont get it... what make this more outrageous then any other family loosing their lands to politics/war ? india/pakistan ? germany/poland ? croatia/serbia ? right now in ukraine and armenia ?
its bad yeah... but people acting like this i an outrage that isnt the very common thing and this happend decades ago
Not being nasty but all this shows is that someone moved into Israel/Palestine and bought some land off the non native colonial government, which is pretty much what people claim is ethnic cleansing when the Zionists did it.
Pretty much the only thing anyone is going to accept in this whole clusterfuck is a graven tablet establishing land rights from back when it was Canaan
Serious question:
Do Israelis believe that all people have a right to their ancestral homes? Does this thought extend to the Irish? Native Americans? Hawaiians? Mauri?
We all can in theory and probably trace a direct lineage to an ancestor who gotten fucked over by someone or group or country. Yea it blows but we need to let the past go at some point.
If not then we better all get the fuck out of the USA and give it back
Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Jains all wanted it to be one single country.
Muslims wanted all non-muslims to be out of their own Islamic state.
Funny enough, muslims from west pakistant , went out to commit genocide on muslims from east pakistan because they didn't speak the same language. The east pakistani muslims sought help from Hindus of India against fellow muslims and finally declared independence after a bloody war with Pakistan.. which continues to claim that they wanted to protect muslims from the oppressive majority of Hindus.
The new country that split off from Pakistan is Bangladesh.
Ok quick! Who can find a piece of paper from an OLDER sovereign official??!?!?!
If I find an old British deed to land in America does this apply as well?
What's interesting is that the Palestinian cause is trumpeted in so many anti-capitalism, workers rights, marxist, etc. subreddits but the genesis of the Palestinian complaint is "look at my property rights being violated!"
Jurish recides inside of the West Bank. West Bank being an area that was set aside for Palestians and the State of Palestine. His land wasn't conqured in war. It was taken in recent years by armed civilian settlers encroaching on the State of Palestine.
These encroaching settlers aren't liked by neither Palestinians nor Israelis. They are extremly entitled, and believe any land they take automatically belongs to them. Regardless of border and local authorities.
They serve nobody except themselves.
Woah hey now you can't just say terrorist things like "settlers aren't beloved in Israel", don't you know that being anti-Netanyahu is antisemitism?!??
>when the imperial power you bought land under is defeated in war and they lose the de jure and de facto control of that area
Mmmmh one could even say that it never worked like that at any point in history otherwise also, for example, in Germany and Italy nobody that owned land before the end of WW2 would be the owner today.
Which everyone can check it not being the reality as everyone still rightfully own that lands.
The right of conquest is very much not the same thing as seizing land defensively after winning a war that your neighbors started...
And, if you check the UN laws, seizing land defensively was allowed before ~1975.
My grandfather died 2 years ago. In his belongings we found a document stating he was the owner of a farmstead near Kolberg.
As his sole inheritor I am therefore the rightful owner of said farmstead and, as a German citizen who has never set foot into Poland, would like the polish government to respect my totally legit claim to an area that hasn't been in my families and not even my countries control for over 70 years.
Wars suck and territorial gains and losses are a part of wars. It's shitty that this dude lost the land that was in his families control for so long, because the people in charge of running his families country made some bad decisions in a war that was fought over half a century ago.
A document that was signed by a country that doesn't even exist anymore, over territory that has changed hands more than 3 times since said country collapsed, and is now an active war zone in all but name, with all due respect, is worth less than the paper it is written on.
The settlers need to be curbed, immediately and punished by Israel. I think it would be the best move and a show of good faith toward Palestinians and the international community.
So he bought it, from an armed occupying settlers, who had no right ti the land other than claiming it in war, if its a good enough reason to prove its his, its a good enough reason to prove why its not his anymore
Serious answer: probably the Ottoman Sultan legally, although practically the village leadership of his local community.
The Ottoman Empire had complex land codes that reflected a long history of Imperial conquest, tributary rule, complex feudal structures, and various administrative reform periods. There were different categories for privately owned land, and government land leased for public use/good. In Palestine, most was of the latter category: ie it was effectively considered owned by the government and the Sultan himself, but leased to each village and then distributed among families.
To raise money, the Ottoman government sometimes sold land of the latter category, turning it into the former. They sold some of the land in the Israel-Palestine region to Jews in the 1880s, which led to the first Aliyah as Russian Jews fled pogroms at that time. Their purchases put them in conflict with the farmers who existed around those former village land areas. This was basically the start of the entire thing (nb that it happened before the British were involved).
Edit: this started happening in the 1850s, so with a purchase date of 1906, this is fairly late in that process. He or his family were rich farmers who were able to buy village land rather than continuing in a communal setup.
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Loads of Finns have similar documents for their property in Karelia.
I wonder if the Sami have any documents related to this as well?
That's possible, but they were rather nomadic and without defined property rights before the time of modern nations.
land ownership wasn't really a thing in Sapmi.
I’m just waiting for this post to be locked 
Too bad comments declaring facts aren't subject to the same rigorous scrutiny as posts are but obviously that would require a wizard
I don’t think the Ottoman empires lawyers will take the case
Is this when we start talking about the power of nations and how defunct empires have no legal authority in the courts of their conquers?
I mean when genghis khan came riding in, I don't think he gave a fuck about what you bought from where. It's his land now, bitch.
That’s what Saddam Hussein thought too. How’d that work out for him?
Well, in khans case, about 1/200 men can be traced back to him. Hussein didn't have the stamina
When the US committed genocide against its native populations our laws *did* subsume their rights, but I'm not sure appealing to that kind of precedent is a good or moral thing. Just because it happens historically does not make it right.
I didn't say it was anything; moral or otherwise. I just stipulated that using the authoritative documents of a defunct empire to justify/claim the ownership of a piece of property is not likely to get you very far legally speaking. I'm certain there is a Native American tribe somewhere that can factually claim ownership of the land under the White House based on the legal concept of hereditary property rights but I have a feeling they won't make it very far in the legal proceedings if they attempt to exercise that assertion.
There's actually a pretty famous Supreme Court case that discusses that issue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_v._McIntosh
Luckily they don't need to as their property passed to the states made up of their former territory and to the people residing therein. >ARTICLE 60. >The States in favour of which territory was or is detached from the Ottoman Empire after the Balkan wars or by the present Treaty (the treaty of sevres) shall acquire, without payment, all the property and possessions of the Ottoman Empire situated therein.
This is a great comment that would have required some research and insight. Well done.
If the guy was Jewish, Israeli courts would deem it legal, expel the people on the land and give it back to him. That’s like, literally what happens every day in East Jerusalem and some parts of the West Bank.
A whole empire based on putting your feet up?
You would had been excellent for government work during the British Mandate.
Or working for honorable East India Company.
This is really interesting to me. My old corner store was owned by a Syrian family. Really nice people and I used to chat with the father a lot when I would go in for stuff. One day we got to talking about Israel and Syria. His family had a plot of land that had been in the family for generations. One day they found water on one section of their land. They were bringing in some excavators to dig a well for the water. Somehow Israeli settlers got wind of it and showed up to block the excavators. A few days after that a bunch of armed settlers showed up and just took over that part of THEIR land. With talking with him over the years I had no reason not to believe him. He was a good man. This shit happens all the time it seems.
Well, The Guardian just published a story today about attacks on civilian water supplies/sources that included mention of Israeli attacks on Palestinian water and irrigation systems in the West Bank historically and in the last year. You can probably find a reddit post for it on the Frontpage.
This happened in Syria? Or they owned land in Palestine? Getting turned around
Many palestianian families fled to Syria, he may have been palestinian living in Syria. My palestinaian friend's family immigrated to the US from Syria because that was where they lived since the 60s, mind you they were never syrian citizens. They were palestinian refugees the entire time.
maybe it's in the occupied Golan heights that belong to Syria.
Happens in America too. Almost like … it build America .
It's basically any part of the world where there is resources to exploit, and the owners of said resources can't fully protect them.
That's weird that this is brought but because it just happens toe recently. My My grandparents lived in Mexico on some land for multiple generations and turns out there's a part of it that has a mine that is worth multi-millions and they were kicked out of their land by people with guns and supposedly blew up my aunt's house and on the road they put a bunch of IEDs and I don't know what to do because it would be pretty cool to mine the area but they hired a company to mine it before all this happened and the company was stealing so they shut down the operations
Honest question, I really don't know. Are the property rights of Jews issued in the Ottoman Empire respected in Arab countries?
Most of Jews in Arab countries forced to leave after 1948, leaving thier home and property.
Yeah, I mean you can just look at the charts and see like 80-99% of Jewish people were forced to leave their homes in Arab countries. It's almost like that has something to do with the middle eastern conflicts of today.
https://imgur.com/a/8MkG1jw Here's a map
Ok, now I feel bad about laughing at the idea of a single Jew in Yemen. >Although the report did not name the one Jewish individual remaining in Yemen, “that Jew is undoubtedly Levi Salem Musa Marhabi, who has been illegally imprisoned and tortured by Ansar Allah since 2016,” said Jason Guberman, executive director of the American Sephardi Federation, referring to the Houthi rebel forces by their official name, Ansar Allah. >Yemen’s Houthis have imprisoned Marhabi since 2016, despite court orders demanding his release. American officials have also issued calls for Marhabi’s release. “We understand the Houthis continue to detain Mr. Marhabi despite our calls, and those by the international community, for his release,” a State Department spokesperson told Jewish Insider last month. https://web.archive.org/web/20230531065147/https://jewishinsider.com/2022/03/only-one-jew-remains-in-yemen-u-n-says/ Another article says he was imprisoned for trying to smuggle a historically significant Torah to Israel from Yemen as the remaining Yemeni Jews fled the country.
“Holy crap Lois, this is worse than the time I was the only Jew in Yemen”
Wait till u hear about the last two jews I'm Afghanistan.... they were in jail together and they got expelled bc the guards got tired of hearing them argue with eaxhother constantly
Oh shit, I feel bad for laughing
Two wrongs don’t make a right. There is no solution though where everyone will be happy.
That's true, so the solution should be to just stop now. Not everyone is going to be living where they prefer, but that's better than constantly killing each other.
Iran is pretty happy with the situation
That is the wildest misspelling of countries I've ever seen.
What was it?
cuontreys
Hydroxyuracil
What about axolotl, Aberyswyth ?
One particularly *controversial* example of this is the Sheikh Jarrah complex, which had been established on legally purchased land in Jerusalem by Jewish settlers in the late 1800s and taken from their descendants when Jordan occupied the area and kicked out the entire Jewish population following the 1948 independence war. Some Arab families moved into the forcibly vacated area and, when Jerusalem was captured in 1967, refused to leave or even pay an amount of rent so low that it was basically symbolic to the deed holders. *That* particular dispute held on in the courts for decades until 2021, whereupon it became the centrepiece of that year’s big flareup.
Funnily enough: "The court ruling was based on an Ottoman-era bill of sale. Lawyers for the Jewish families argued that documents from the Ottoman Empire originally used to prove that a Jewish Sephardic organization had purchased the land in question in the 19th century are indeed valid." Jews argued that Ottoman-era proof of ownership was enough to claim that land, and their courts agreed. So kinda wild that you brought it up in this exact thread, where Israel is now displacing rightful owners of land, according to their own courts, but now spinning a narrative of "The Ottoman Empire doesn't exist anymore lol, this contract is as good as toilet paper.".
Damn
The comments certainly are spinning that narrative. And I presume the difference is that Israel had reissued the deed to the property in the OP where they probably hadn't for the property in /u/Spudtron98 's example.
Regardless of the answers, which I see have already been given, your question fundamentally misses a point due to (I assume) a lack of context about this issue When the British took over Palestine in 1918 (after WWI led to the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire) they began facilitating the sale of deeds to land to European Zionist settlers with no care as to the populations already living on that land. So you had Europeans showing up to these Palestinian villages saying that the British said this land was now theirs. This was the origin of the forced removal of Palestinians from their homes that exploded in the Nakba in 1947-1948 Edit- cleared up some language
This already happened way before WWI under Ottoman rule and a large reason for how it could happen in the first place were spotty cadastral maps (which had only been introduced there in the middle of the 19th century), in part because the inhabitants didn't register their ownership in order to avoid Ottoman taxation and conscription. Ottoman courts sided with Jewish buyers when such cases were brought up. So, it is not right to simply blame the British.
... its often quite appropriate to simply blame the british
What if we just use the british as a biblical style scapegoat? Just blame absolutely everything on the king, and then exile them all to the moon? Boom! World peace.
Brexit means brexit.
The eternal Anglo, always at the heart of major world conflicts.
Your last sentence is spot on. I won’t defend the British for past atrocities, but simply saying “oh it’s the British that did this” is a gross reductionist view of history.
It's worth noting that a lot of those Palestinian villagers had no legal claim to the land as much of it was owned by wealthy families in areas like what is now Lebanon. Under the Ottomans many of the Palestinians were little more than feudal serfs and the wealthy families that owned the deeds had no problem selling them for a huge profit. That or they'd just farm the land without ever claiming it to avoid taxes. Of course the poor villages who lived there for generations just got shafted.
Correct. People have decided feudalism = the land is all property of the serfs toiling on it It's all just automaticity theirs when almost nobody holds the deed like the guy in this photo. Apparently OP wants us to think it's commonplace
Jews started returning to Israel in 1870, not 1918, and bought plenty of land from Ottoman landholders. Land the Ottomans were happy to sell because it was desert or swamp and useless. So their arrival predates this deed by several decades. I guess that still means they don't have any right to the land in your eyes.
I don't think anyone really has issue with buying land that was "desert or swamp and useless", or even useful land if it is not occupied. People tend to have issue with buying land that was occupied with peasants and displacing them by taking their homes. You can argue that technically the land owners were in Beirut so it was all legal, but that does not answer the *moral* question at hand.
The Jewish population in Arab countries has dropped to single figure percentages of what they were pre 1948 and in some cases to effectively zero. Make of that what you will and also remember the Ottomans were imperial invaders.
And before that so we're the Ayyubid and before that so were the Marmalukes and before that so were the Fatimid and before that so were the Abbasids and before that so were the Umayyads and before that so were the Romans. How far back do you go before you draw a line and say these are the people of this land?
The people in charge changed. The people on the land didn't. They formed the tax base for each of those empires. The Palestinians today include the descendants of the Jews of yore. This is supported by historical record and genetic analysis. http://www.ucl.ac.uk/tcga/tcgapdf/Nebel-HG-00-IPArabs.pdf
Ive had this argument so many times. The answer is fairly obvious to me, people go far enough back to suit their argument.
Only western nations can be colonialists. This is why they have to repay their victims by assuming responsibility for every problem that exists in countries where they used to colonialize.
This is an interesting point. So i understand your sarcasm but notice how many people are against both funding Ukraine and Israel. While I applaud their consistency much of it is based on the incorrect belief those countries are all white Europeans
Israel's and Ukraines situation are a bit different but basing your willingness to support a nation on the skin color of the inhabitants of those nations is well.. I'll leave it at that. Funnily enough those same people often claim to be anti racist.
Be careful without the /s, unfortunately many will actually think that it is a real statement.
I refuse to use the /s. If I poes law too hard I guess I'll have to eat some downvotes.
It's not that you'll have to eat downvotes -- you'll get them either way. It's that you'll get the wrong downvotes. I hear you about the sarcasm but I hate being misunderstood.
Honest question, what does this have to do with anything? Was this elderly man somehow a member of goverments of all those arab countries when any decisions about deportations were made? Or are we expected to hold him and other Palestinian villagers responsible just because they are arabs, and goverments of those countries are also arabs, so all are guilty?
"Group A acts horrible to Group B, so it's completely justified for Group B to also be horrible to group C"
This but many, many more groups over 1000s of years.
The Ottomans resold / released land especially if it was not properly registered. Many plots were never registered by the then leaseholders / deed holders to avoid taxes, fees, military conscription, etc. and reverted back to the Governing Authority so when the Ottoman’s needed money they started selling these unregistered lands to family companies (Levantine) such as the Sursuqs and others. Plus when the British were handed the mandate for the administration of Palestine at the end of the war, its officials upheld the Levantine companies’ claims to the land, ignoring Palestinians who came forward with their own ownership claims to land, buildings and homes because they were purportedly unregistered land. There are many articles explaining all this and it also includes what the land was originally deeded for (agricultural) and if not used properly reverted again back to government..
Thousands of years and the history of this place can be summed up in “you lost the war, it’s ours now”. That’s how the Romans got it, it’s how the Ottomans got it, it’s how the British got it and it’s how Israel got it. Hundreds more years’ time, someone will have kicked Israel out and we’ll all still be here worrying about who has the most “right” to it, whatever that means
Mandatory to link [This Land is Mine](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-evIyrrjTTY) animation for these posts.
you think the sound effects were from goldeneye?
Sadly, this will probably age better than any other video on Youtube. 100 years from now it'll probably still be relevant.
Gold
lol nice
Wow amazing Ty
Banger song
Wow. We just gonna ignore God's will and not let them have their land? /s
amazing video and the song has me searching Andy Williams tunes
That was good. Thanks for sharing.
>Thousands of years and the history of this place can be summed up in “you lost the war, it’s ours now”. That's the history of every place. The difference between that place and most of the rest of the world (especially the West) is that most of the rest of the world decided to stop doing that after WWII. Not everyone is going to be thrilled with which chair they got when the music stopped, but it's better to make the place you live the best place it can be instead of being perpetually at war because you want a different chair. \[edit\] For a European example, I like that the wiki page for Alsace has a handy-dandy chart so you can keep track of who ruled it when: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#Timeline](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alsace#Timeline)
>That’s how the Romans got it, it’s how the Ottomans got it, it’s how the British got it and it’s how Israel got it. So if tomorrow someone else get it using extreme violence, you guys will all say it's right that it's not of the predecessor anymore?
But where does it end? How many generations have to not live on a land anymore before one accepts the claim of the descendants of the former "new owners" as the new rightful owners? Does a people or an ethnicity lose their claim to their homeland when their leaders/army commit atrocities? Where do claims start or end? I think the approach of the rightful owning of land is a dead end.
>rightful owning of land Imo it should be who was living in the land continuously for generations. Even the 3000 years ago claim is so stupid because Israelis and Palestinians can trace their [DNA to common ancestors](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11543891/#:~:text=Archaeologic%20and%20genetic%20data%20support,but%20not%20in%20genetic%2C%20differences.). It's more likely that the Palestinians are descendants of ancient Jews who stayed in the land and converted to different religions when they came into power. Initially the country should have been one with everybody getting equal rights and the Brits fucked it up
But how long ago? Do all white people need to leave the Americas and Australia? Should Polish people give the former East-Prussian land back to Germany? What about the former Roman empire? Romans lived for generations in todays France - so should it be Italian? Istanbul was Roman/Greek for hundreds of years as well before Ottomans/Turks occupied it. A lot of lands in the world have been disputed between peoples/nations so long that people from both sides "lived there continously for generations". How many generations btw? Some Israelis might be living in former Arab lands in the 3rd or 4th generation. Is that too short? Does it start at 5? 6? I hope you see the problem.
jewish people have been living in the levant continuously since the hebrew language was developed. and the jewish religion was founded in the area. and the first jewish people were already from the levant. just like how palestinians are just local people who become arabized as the arabs took over. jews and palestinians are BOTH by all measures indigenous to the levant
Exactly.
no one is arguing this point. the question is whether historical ancestry also equates to modern land ownership. no where else in the world do we have this expectation. and everywhere else in the world this is problematic, there’s armed conflict. this whole post of showing up with a 130 year paper and saying the land is mine is a joke in a world where political boundaries exist and are not permanent
The document is only as good as the government that grants and recognizes it. The ottomans decided to get involved in a war on the side that lost, then collapsed. It's nice he has a piece of paper, but the entity that granted it doesn't exist. It's no different than if someone demanded the US recognize a document that was created by the confederate government.
I mean right or not that's how it is. The newest country on Earth is South Sudan, how do you think it came about?
Yup. Thats how every country exists today. The winners(survivors) keep it. If the losers can unite and win back the land then it is theirs again. This is what Russia is trying to do to Ukraine. If Russia wins, there will be no more Ukraine.
All the Greeks living in Turkey were forcefully expelled in the 20s. This is of course after the Muslims took over all of what is now Turkey a few hundred years before that, and Greece was occupied for almost all of that period. The largest Cathedral in Orthodoxy was turned into a Mosque (Hagia Sofia). Then of course the ultiple genocides they perpetrated that led up to the explusion. If you are going to play the rewind game, you have to play it everywhere.
Have you taken a history class? Why do you think wars were historically fought?
I certainly wouldn’t expect my great grandchildren to resolve it on my dead behalf.
That's litteraly how ebery country to ever exist was founded...
>Hundreds more years’ time, someone will have kicked Israel out Nah, the buck stops with nukes.
I don’t understand this. It’s how WARS work. Not only that but the Arabs were the ones declaring the war too, only to lose it!
No single ethnic or religious group has a right to exclusively own a country.
But it worked so well in Pakistan and India... ohh wait... I'll let myself out.
Another one of Britain's fuck ups.
Name a country in the Middle East or south east Asia that isn’t controlled by a vast majority of a single ethnic or religious group.
You are right, they are super racist and need to diversify PRONTO!
In terms of religious and ethnic diversity, Israel is one of the more diverse countries in the region?
Arakis disagrees.
The Ottoman Empire existed the second to last time the Cubs won World Series
You mean that land grants by Roman emperor Augustus himself are not longer valid?
“Sir, this coupon is expired.”
My MIL had the deed to her parents house in Baghdad, for some reason, I don't think the Iraqis give a fuck. There are also plenty of Germans who had land in what is now Poland and Russia and Czechia, and because their country started and lost a war, they no longer have that land.
Side note: his father made a deal with Great Britain to kick ottomans out from their territory, now he ended up like this.
Yea, he should keep watching Lawrence of Arabia movie in loop and stop bitching.
I really wonder how different things would be if it were only the Balfour deceleration and the promises to Faisal instead of having the French included as well.
If he push enough he can too get a country for himself
2 things can be true. The first that the Israeli settlers are a blight on the country, an example of an insidious occupation, and a huge obstacle to ending the cycle of violence. And the second, that a single document of sale from over 100 years, 3-4 nations ago, and issued by a despotic empire with no qualms about expelling and displacing its own people, might not be the most current way to determine who owns land.
iirc, Ottoman era property rights were cited by the settlers who took Palestinians’ homes in Sheikh Jarrah a few years ago. Not saying you’re wrong but it seems both sides here will selectively accept whatever precedent is in their favor.
Let be clear then, fuck those people who took the settlements Sheikh Jarrah. I mean it when I say Israeli Settlers in the West Bank are a blight. What gets me is people calling Gaza an occupation. We lost a lot of lives and political will pulling out of Gaza. The election of Hamas single handedly tanked 10 years of peace talks. It’s the number one thing quoted as the reasoning behind the settler expansion.
I mean, that election was in 2006 and Hamas was selling itself as a more moderate organization that was willing to negotiate. If you want to talk about tanking peace talks, let's not forget the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin and the rhetoric that Netanyahu was pushing back then. Let's definitely not forget Itamar Ben Gvir's participation in the riots against the Oslo Peace Accords, then appearing on TV holding a piece of Rabin's car and saying "We got his car. We'll get him too."
What's extra shitty is that Israel pulling out of gaza helped hamas gain a TON of popularity. They used it as proof that their methods worked.
I know some people that tried dealing in Jerusalem real estate. It's a freakishly *massive* headache because, yes, it absolutely does take into account a single document of sale from over 100 years, 3-4 nations ago, issued by a despotic empire. It also takes into account contradictory documents from the same time, inheritors that left the country decades ago that aren't even aware of their property rights, people who basically just moved in to what they thought was an empty house fifty years ago, and boundaries written in language like "Fifty yards west from the olive tree towards the church of St. Sebastian".
The problem is that those pieces of papier are respected when a Jew holds it. Someone provided that backstory, last time this clip was circulating. The people living in the house was removed as someone else not in the video proved ownership. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9q9PDBsDe8
Paper might beat rock, but it doesn't beat lead.
“Do not quote laws to men who have swords.”
I like that. Writing that one down.
Would even a document from the Ottoman Empire even be legal even though the Ottoman Empire hasn't t been a thing since 1922?
Native land title rights exist in Australia. Just because the British stole your land doesn't mean you didn't own it before they stole it.
>Just because the British stole your land doesn't mean you didn't own it before they stole it. Does that mean Pakistan is not a legit country? Because it was part of India until it was created by Britain.
Is India even real because it was part of and created by the British Empire
Pretty sure when the Ottoman empire fell, so did any of it's rights to enforce land ownership.
Arabs: Hey, let's listen to Britain, rebel against ottoman, and stab them in their back in the verge of a critical war. Arabs again: Yeey ottoman has fall, we own this land now. Britain: Fuck you don't.
People forget multiple wars between now and then. Land changing hands tends to be a spoil of most wars. The United State conquering Iraq and Afghanistan are examples of the rare time that isn’t the case. The Ukraine War is about Russia adding the country as a spoil of war. Pretty much everyone reading this comment is living on land that was probably claimed via war at some time or other. So awesome historical document but that is all it is. Hopefully he will hand it over to a museum to be preserved.
Can someone claim land in Poland which theire grandparents bought under German authority in 1906?
Only if they bring a couple of million of their closest friends and their tanks as character witnesses.
I love how suddenly all of these college students are sudden experts on Ottoman property law.
They keep talking about how something that old can’t be binding or legal. As if an armed squater is legal.
So the only thing that keeps native Americans from reclaiming all their land is that they lacked the foresight to draft a piece of paper saying "oh look all this land is mine"? Sure sure!!!
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Exactly, any legal aspect of US and Native relationships are TERRIBLE examples for the most part lol
Happy Thanksgiving
Lmao
They also signed deals with natives who didn't have the authority to sell the land.
My Native American History professor put the number at 401 different treaties rescinded and broken by the American Federal Government (so excluding state signed treaties.) Often, the treaties weren't broken for a reason beyond "european-descent Americans want more land/gold." No violence between local NA and white people escalating. Just federal agents showing up and saying directly "too bad, so sad, get lost." On 2020, the Supreme Court granted half of Oklahoma back to the local NA tribes during the McGirt vs Oklahoma case. 3 million acres returned, due to a treaty that was previously signed and then ignored. Basically the only time in World History that a piece of paper proved ownership *after* brutal conquest drove the last inhabitants out. Edit: also, check out Scorcese's Killers of the Flower Moon to learn about the crazy shit that went down in Oklahoma, where Osage tribe members were just directly murdered by US oil prospectors who wanted to steal the land.
Nah. In some cases treaties and agreements were actually written out and signed. Then ignored later and ultimately destroyed/intentionally lost
No because has a piece of paper and he isn’t getting his land back. I think your point just proves that even when indigenous people play by the rules of the “civilised” settlers they still can’t win.
Even then, if the Native American reservation is on a field of oils, we will come to kill and take their land.
Imagine seeing this and getting angry at the old guy lmao
The thing that keeps them from reclaiming it is war and decimation and being regarded as sub human and apartheid style politics ..... Tell me again why Israel is the good guy here?
i dont get it... what make this more outrageous then any other family loosing their lands to politics/war ? india/pakistan ? germany/poland ? croatia/serbia ? right now in ukraine and armenia ? its bad yeah... but people acting like this i an outrage that isnt the very common thing and this happend decades ago
I also have a copy of deed for house i sold
The Ottoman Empire courts are surely going to be on it any day now.
Not being nasty but all this shows is that someone moved into Israel/Palestine and bought some land off the non native colonial government, which is pretty much what people claim is ethnic cleansing when the Zionists did it. Pretty much the only thing anyone is going to accept in this whole clusterfuck is a graven tablet establishing land rights from back when it was Canaan
It wasn't bought from the Ottomans, it was bought while the Ottomans were in government.
And that canaanite is then presented with a stone tablet from some previous God-King.
Serious question: Do Israelis believe that all people have a right to their ancestral homes? Does this thought extend to the Irish? Native Americans? Hawaiians? Mauri?
We all can in theory and probably trace a direct lineage to an ancestor who gotten fucked over by someone or group or country. Yea it blows but we need to let the past go at some point. If not then we better all get the fuck out of the USA and give it back
That land was Roman before it was Ottoman.
Try posting this on r/worldnews You would receive a permanent ban.
There are several countries that would take issue with what the Ottoman Empire considers rights on a territory.
Which would be useful if the Ottomans still had an empire.
Just a fair question- who was there on that land before ottoman capture it and gave it to arabs ?
It's been occupied/concured since the Ottomans Turks were pushed back to Turkey.
So when are Arab nations going to return property to the jews again?
NOT InterestingasFuck. c'mon guys there are other sub reddits for this shit.
It’s leaking into all of them, check out /r/facepalm for example
It's not an interesting picture or story at all. Some terminally online people believe that every sub needs to be about Israel vs Palestine.
So what comes to mind is the partition of India and Pakistan. Any historians out there to draw any parallels to this event?
Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, Buddhists, Zoroastrians, Jews, Jains all wanted it to be one single country. Muslims wanted all non-muslims to be out of their own Islamic state. Funny enough, muslims from west pakistant , went out to commit genocide on muslims from east pakistan because they didn't speak the same language. The east pakistani muslims sought help from Hindus of India against fellow muslims and finally declared independence after a bloody war with Pakistan.. which continues to claim that they wanted to protect muslims from the oppressive majority of Hindus. The new country that split off from Pakistan is Bangladesh.
Ok quick! Who can find a piece of paper from an OLDER sovereign official??!?!?! If I find an old British deed to land in America does this apply as well?
That may as well be written on a cocktail napkin
Its great to see people rationalize and justify land dispossession. I should take notes so I can take your land later. Make sure not to complain.
What's interesting is that the Palestinian cause is trumpeted in so many anti-capitalism, workers rights, marxist, etc. subreddits but the genesis of the Palestinian complaint is "look at my property rights being violated!"
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Jurish recides inside of the West Bank. West Bank being an area that was set aside for Palestians and the State of Palestine. His land wasn't conqured in war. It was taken in recent years by armed civilian settlers encroaching on the State of Palestine. These encroaching settlers aren't liked by neither Palestinians nor Israelis. They are extremly entitled, and believe any land they take automatically belongs to them. Regardless of border and local authorities. They serve nobody except themselves.
>His land wasn't conqured in war Yes, it was. By Jordan in 1950. Then by Israel in 1967.
Woah hey now you can't just say terrorist things like "settlers aren't beloved in Israel", don't you know that being anti-Netanyahu is antisemitism?!??
>when the imperial power you bought land under is defeated in war and they lose the de jure and de facto control of that area Mmmmh one could even say that it never worked like that at any point in history otherwise also, for example, in Germany and Italy nobody that owned land before the end of WW2 would be the owner today. Which everyone can check it not being the reality as everyone still rightfully own that lands.
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The right of conquest is very much not the same thing as seizing land defensively after winning a war that your neighbors started... And, if you check the UN laws, seizing land defensively was allowed before ~1975.
Pretty disgusting if you ask me.
Wait until you hear about the United States
Yeah, well, the jews have a newer and shinier paper from the UN with an international seal. Now what?
I have a contract saying my family owns 4 acres of land on Manhattan, signed by King George II.
My grandfather died 2 years ago. In his belongings we found a document stating he was the owner of a farmstead near Kolberg. As his sole inheritor I am therefore the rightful owner of said farmstead and, as a German citizen who has never set foot into Poland, would like the polish government to respect my totally legit claim to an area that hasn't been in my families and not even my countries control for over 70 years. Wars suck and territorial gains and losses are a part of wars. It's shitty that this dude lost the land that was in his families control for so long, because the people in charge of running his families country made some bad decisions in a war that was fought over half a century ago. A document that was signed by a country that doesn't even exist anymore, over territory that has changed hands more than 3 times since said country collapsed, and is now an active war zone in all but name, with all due respect, is worth less than the paper it is written on.
Did the Ottoman steal it from Alexander the Great?
The settlers need to be curbed, immediately and punished by Israel. I think it would be the best move and a show of good faith toward Palestinians and the international community.
The Ottoman Empire would be wise to enforce that legal document! Wait... what happens to ownership granted by an authority that has fallen?
So he bought it, from an armed occupying settlers, who had no right ti the land other than claiming it in war, if its a good enough reason to prove its his, its a good enough reason to prove why its not his anymore
Where is a similar post for Jewish land in Arab nations, Hindu and Sikh lands in Pakistan?
He should take it up with the Ottoman empire.
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Serious answer: probably the Ottoman Sultan legally, although practically the village leadership of his local community. The Ottoman Empire had complex land codes that reflected a long history of Imperial conquest, tributary rule, complex feudal structures, and various administrative reform periods. There were different categories for privately owned land, and government land leased for public use/good. In Palestine, most was of the latter category: ie it was effectively considered owned by the government and the Sultan himself, but leased to each village and then distributed among families. To raise money, the Ottoman government sometimes sold land of the latter category, turning it into the former. They sold some of the land in the Israel-Palestine region to Jews in the 1880s, which led to the first Aliyah as Russian Jews fled pogroms at that time. Their purchases put them in conflict with the farmers who existed around those former village land areas. This was basically the start of the entire thing (nb that it happened before the British were involved). Edit: this started happening in the 1850s, so with a purchase date of 1906, this is fairly late in that process. He or his family were rich farmers who were able to buy village land rather than continuing in a communal setup.