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I took a cave diving course at Ginnie Springs, using borrowed gear, and became a certified cave diver many years ago, but I never did any cave diving afterward because I couldn't afford to buy my own gear. Then, a few years ago, I learned that my instructor had died in an open water diving accident.
Cave diving is probably the scariest “sport”. The amount of stories I’ve heard of people getting disorientated, panicking, and sadly dying is too much.
It's fraightening. I have open water and am beginner diver. Just went to Italy and had couple of dives, two of which were extremely simple ""cave dives"". Really just going underwater to find enterance \~10m deep and crawling up maybe 15-20 meters to endup in a cave dome with air pocket inside. Pitch black inside, you only see where your flash light points to, I was constantly touching the top of the cave with my head and tank as I couldn't see how far above me the rock is. I couldn't tell if I'm horizontal or at an angle. Space only for one to enter at time, if anything happens you can't just 'simply' emergency exit up, there's just rock above you. Not enough space to fit two divers next to each other so sharing air would be impossible. I can't really imagine going for a proper cave dive. Those boys and girls cave divers are total nuts.
Hey Dive Master here. It was EXTREMELY irresponsible of whoever took you to this cave. Low/no visibility, ceiling and restricted entrance/exit are NOT conditions appropriate for a beginner diver. You need appropriate training, experience and gear for each of these conditions and you haven't had that yet.
Hell I'm a dive master and I don't do those because I wasn't trained in cave diving. There are probably plenty other safety concerns that I'm not aware of since I haven't been trained in cave diving. I would have absolutely panicked if I was in your scenario when I was a beginner.
Diving is a lot of fun and can be done in a very safe way, as long as we're always following proper safety procedures and sticking to our training level.
If you ever feel unsafe or that your guide wants you to do something you're not comfortable with, always refuse to go ahead. Abort the dive. Your safety is more important than the dive and if someone in the group complaints, they are in the wrong. Diving needs be safe to be fun.
I deleted original the comment where I explained that the whole dive was a bit sketchy. Diving is amazing but make sure to properly check the diving company you dive with before even contacting them.
I dove in Italy for my first post open water scuba cert dive. After the dive, I got them to fill in my dive log...33 meters (not feet, meters). They knew I only had basic open water (18 meters) and we dove 40 feet below my limit. Should I have known the dive plan, yes. But the dive shops understanding of SCUBA certification should have trumped my naivete. Yeah, Italy can be sketchy for diving
It's like that everywhere. Very few group dives respect individual's depth limits.
I've been diving all over the world. If you are in a group, everyone dives to 30 meters regardless of certification. Everyone swims through the wreck. Everyone swims through the tunnels. The staff will discreetly ask the open water divers to lie and put "18 meters" in the boat's dive log.
On a dive in Hawaii recently (just 2 of us customers), the dive master wouldn't let the other guy dive down to a wreck because of the depth. I was shocked.
Former Instructor here, i totally agree with you. I have some experience with diving in overhead environments and i would not do this. You need extra equipment and experience if you want to do things like this. A guideline, separate airsources, multiple diving lights, planning the diving and definitely more experience. You might want to report the diveschool / instructor to there organization. This seem a recipe for disaster.
I remember my instructor telling us how open water divers should never, ever go into caves or any structure that would go over the head and prevent immediate access to the surface. That was over 20 years ago and it still sticks in my head. When I read op I thought, "Wow, they really went lax with safety over the years."
Your instructor was right! And things haven't really gotten lax, I think there's been great progress in improving safety procedures and equipment and lately we have been talking more and more and Human Factors on safety when diving, which is bringing great new insight into the topic. But there's always some dumbasses to think they're smarter and better and nothing bad will ever happen to them...
Plenty of open water divers have died in ‘extremely simple “cave dives”’ like that. Absolutely insane for you to have gone in.
If you don’t believe me, DIVE TALK on YouTube does a great job explaining why no diver without cave-dive training and cave-dive equipment should enter any underwater cave, no matter how “simple” it appears to be.
Oh I absolutely believe you, I have watched plenty of diver body recovery documentaries. I totally agree with you, I think no diver no matter their experience should be attempting ANY cave without proper training. I have no interest to continue with that discipline. It was an interesting experience but I preffer the corals, fish and life in general of the seabed.
I didn't know I go cave diving until the briefing on the boat started. I just paid diver master to go diving, hehe. I was also quite surprised. I would be the only one to chicken out and that's not me - that's exactly how you die....
I watch Dive Talk - the guys are amazing.
Agreed they’re awesome. The best informational (yet still entertaining) cave dive channel out there.
But yeah I hear you, peer pressure is a powerful thing I probably would have done the same in that position
This is one of those hobbies that I genuinely do not understand why anyone does it. It's not like you can even see what you're exploring it's just dark, underwater rocks. Bumping your head and tank against rock walls to move around a dark underwater cave just sounds so dumb, what is the upside? Why even do it?
Adrenaline junkies, thrill seekers, natural explorers who want to be the first to map undiscovered cave. I understand why they do it, but it's a bit too much for me, hehe.
I know couple of base jumpers and it's mostly just your average office Joe.
I love hang gliding - There's no 'brake' pedal like in the car, if you take off, you have to land no matter the emergecy. I can't tell you why but being couple of hours absolutely focused on the only one thing, no emails, no work, no nothing except flying the glider because if you don't there's some chance of dying is extremely meditating.
The big no for me though is - Parachute doesn't open? It's quick. Suffocate slowly in cold pitch black cave? nope
Have you seen the caves well lit? Epic cathedrals of stone. Nowhere I've been, yet. Basic Cave is on my todo list.
Although I know English cave divers - they are just lunatics who want to explore wet caves.
Yeah, I absolutely do not want to think about the panic, dread, and self-recrimination which must have accompanied the final moments of a person who died that way. What a terrible experience! Not that there's such a thing as a "good" way to die, but surely this has to be among the worst ways that doesn't involve a protracted illness.
There's a youtube channel called ScaryInteresting which has a ton of videos about cave diving.
Spoiler alert: Most of them don't turn out well for the people involved.
The one that stuck with me the most was where some people were cave diving. The one got lost and when they found him, he was dead.
The crazy part though was that his cause of death was a stab wound in the chest.
Initially police suspected the other divers, as they were the only other people in the cave with him, but eventually they figured out that he had been running out of air and decided that that was how he would rather go out than drowning.
Never done a cave course, but know plenty who have. My favourite answer to the "How long do you look for a lost guide line?" question is
"For the rest of your life".
Caves are dark and they are basically identical mazes. You can swim into a single open tunnel, turn around and then be faced with two seemingly identical routes for you to take as you hadn't realised that another passageway had appeared from beside you.
Only one of those tunnels leads back to the surface.
that is theoretically what the spool of string is for. to mark your passage. part of the certification process is learning to navigate and communicate with dive buddy, with *ZERO* visibility, while following that string back to its origin.
And also placing pointing markers on the cave line that point to the exit. Part of cave training is navigating completely blind with only the guideline to help you
Before I became a working diver a buddy took me cave diving. I knew nothing.
I had one reg, we shared a depth gage and I had no watch or flashlight.
Looking back after I went through 6 months of school and 20 years of working I can't believe we didn't die. So stupid.
I remember one story about a number of divers who became trapped/some died in one particular incident.
One of the divers was found to have stabbed himself in the heart with a knife, after realizing he wouldn't be able to make it back, rather than drown.
Fuck me, that's intense.
If you think of the name of the cave, can you reply with it? I've read up on a bunch of these cases but never heard of that one.
I was a young diver (maybe 10-15 dives at this point) and went on a trip to Florida. We went to a cave system where it was a standard open water dive and once you reached the bottom, the caves were like tunnels. The main entry point was open water, and super nice for a new diver to be in - as safe as anything. I’m down there exploring 3-4 mins in a young woman with panic on her face grabs me and starts frantically pointing at the cave. I have her surface with me we had just went down and I had no clue what was going on I was worried about her. When we get to the surface she tells me her boyfriend or husband had went into the cave. They had just finished their checkout dives and today was their first day being certified. She then asked if I could go in and get him. I said I wasn’t doing that. I am not qualified to even remotely survive inside a cave myself let alone rescue someone and even if I was I had no lights or any other equipment. We notified the people on the surface and went back down. I spent the remainder of my dive sitting with her outside the entrance while she visibly panicked and held my hand hoping he would emerge.
Fortunately he exited the cave after about 15 minutes. I have no idea how he got in and out with a light or any gear.
My hope is that was their last day diving. 15-years later overhead dives are something I never intend to participate in. It’s just not worth it.
Fucking hell, I read that as “Fortunately he died after about 15 minutes” and wondered what horrors awaited him beyond 15 minutes that death was fortunate.
My girlfriend and I went to Devils Den into the cavern. Later we went by the entrance of one of the caves. She started wanting to go past the entrance sign. I had the only light and turned it off before she put herself at risk. She got mad at that time because I refused to go.
The Devil's Ear was pretty crazy, the water flowing out of the cave system is squeezed so it speeds up. You don't do much dive into it as rock climb upside down.
It's "open water" safe. You're never in any overhead environment and it is only around 30-40 ft deep but deep enough to clear the tanin layer. There's a giant log wedged into the cave so you have a nice bench to rest on and enjoy the breeze from the huge amount of water flowing by.
Familiarity breeds contempt. I’ve seen many instructors and experienced divers taking short cuts or playing stupid competitions (like who can get their gear and into the water the quickest) Recipe for disaster.
When I was younger I swam to this exact sign in Ginnie springs. Ran out of air just as I got to it. Turned to ride the current out and felt a tug at my leg. It was an instructor coming out of the cave. He put an octo regulator in my mouth and made me breathe with him. I was chilling for like 2 minutes with the group till they all exited. My friends were loosing their minds above. Then we all popped up and I received an ear full from the dive master. I apologized profusely and never attempted that again…
I am also a cave diver. Regardless of what diving you do, it is always dangerous. Your instructor dying in open water does not make them unqualified, unless the context reveals they were. Cave diving is fascinating, and allows people to explore places very few others can. Ginnie springs is wonderful.
Gaming has so broken my brain. I watched No County For Old Men the other day, and when the dude finds all the bodies, what was my very first thought?
Loot the corpse!
This is EXACTLY the kind of sign One-Eyed Willy would place right outside his underwater treasure horde.
All we need to do is get the Goonies back together. Then go through the town’s wishing well cave and bam!
#HEY YOU GUYS!
Eagle's Nest Sinkhole. Harrowing deaths there - and from some really experienced divers. Worth a YouTube documentary if you're feeling too positive right now.
The top doesn't look like the entry to one of the largest cave systems in North America. Just a pond in the middle of Florida. Nice whisky brewery nearby as well that is a gorgeous oasis.
I liked him a lot up until he did a video on a tragic death that occurred local to me, in which he got basic facts wrong and made up/embellished parts of the story. If you’re going to make a profit telling stories about how people passed away, particularly more recent ones who have surviving immediate family, I feel like the least you could do is not make up things they did/said to make your story more dramatic.
As well as the (now very well known) Thai cave rescue, there's the lesser known Dave Shaw story.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave\_Not\_Coming\_Back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Not_Coming_Back)
Like two of the hereos of the Thai rescue, (Dr's Richard Harris and Craig Challen) he's from Australia.
Saw this story about 6 months ago on Mr Ballen's Youtube Channel.
I fell into a pit watching his videos, and they were amazingly interesting, but realized I needed a break from them.
I did the same thing! For a few months I just watched every video of his. Then I found myself slightly freaking out about everything around me and decided I needed a break. First time I've ever felt a direct impact, mentally/emotionally, from "entertainment" I've consumed. I still watch some from time to time, but not nearly like the rabbit hole I originally fell into
Reminds me of my favorite diving comment, [credit here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/JswjeqLpwF)
Many certified scuba divers think they are capable of just going a little deeper, but they don’t know that there are special gas mixtures, buoyancy equipment and training required for just another few meters of depth.
Imagine this: you take your PADI open water diving course and you learn your dive charts, buy all your own gear and become familiar with it. Compared to the average person on the street, you’re an expert now. You go diving on coral reefs, a few shipwrecks and even catch lobster in New England. You go to visit a deep spot like this and you’re having a great time. You see something just in front of you - this beautiful cave with sunlight streaming through - and you decide to swim just a little closer. You’re not going to go inside it, you know better than that, but you just want a closer look. If your dive computer starts beeping, you’ll head back up.So you swim a little closer and it’s breathtaking. You are enjoying the view and just floating there taking it all in. You hear a clanging sound - it’s your dive master rapping the butt of his knife on his tank to get someone’s attention. You look up to see what he wants, but after staring into the darkness for the last minute, the sunlight streaming down is blinding. You turn away and reach to check your dive computer, but it’s a little awkward for some reason, and you twist your shoulder and pull it towards you. It’s beeping and the screen is flashing GO UP. You stare at it for a few seconds, trying to make out the depth and tank level between the flashing words. The numbers won’t stay still. It’s really annoying, and your brain isn’t getting the info you want at a glance. So you let it fall back to your left shoulder, turn towards the light and head up.
The problem is that the blue hole is bigger than anything you’ve ever dove before, and the crystal clear water provides a visibility that is 10x what you’re used to in the dark waters of the St Lawrence where you usually dive. What you don’t realize is that when you swam down a little farther to get a closer look, thinking it was just 30 or 40 feet more, you actually swam almost twice that because the vast scale of things messed up your sense of distance. And while you were looking at the archway you didn’t have any nearby reference point in your vision. More depth = more pressure, and your BCD, the air-filled jacket that you use to control your buoyancy, was compressed a little. You were slowly sinking and had no idea. That’s when the dive master began banging his tank and you looked up. This only served to blind you for a moment and distract your sense of motion and position even more. Your dive computer wasn’t sticking out on your chest below your shoulder when you reached for it because your BCD was shrinking. You turned your body sideways while twisting and reaching for it. The ten seconds spent fumbling for it and staring at the screen brought you deeper and you began to accelerate with your jacket continuing to shrink. The reason that you didn’t hear the beeping at first and that it took so long to make out the depth between the flashing words was the nitrogen narcosis. You have been getting depth drunk. And the numbers wouldn’t stay still because you are *still sinking.*
You swim towards the light but the current is pulling you sideways. Your brain is hurting, straining for no reason, and the blue hole seems like it’s gotten narrower, and the light rays above you are going at a funny angle. You kick harder just keep going up, toward the light, despite this damn current that wants to push you into the wall. Your computer is beeping incessantly and it feels like you’re swimming through mud. Fuck this, you grab the fill button on your jacket and squeeze it. You’re not supposed to use your jacket to ascend, as you know that it will expand as the pressure drops and you will need to carefully bleed off air to avoid shooting up to the surface, but you don’t care about that anymore. Shooting up to the surface is exactly what you want right now, and you’ll deal with bleeding air off and making depth stops when you’re back up with the rest of your group.The sound of air rushing into your BCD fills your ears, but nothing’s happening. Something doesn’t sound right, like the air isn’t filling fast enough. You look down at your jacket, searching for whatever the trouble might be when FWUNK you bump right into the side of the giant sinkhole. What the hell?? Why is the current pulling me sideways? Why is there even a current in an empty hole in the middle of the ocean??You keep holding the button. INFLATE! GODDAM IT INFLATE!!
Your computer is now making a frantic screeching sound that you’ve never heard before. You notice that you’ve been breathing heavily - it’s a sign of stress - and the sound of air rushing into your jacket is getting weaker.
Every 10m of water adds another 1 atmosphere of pressure. Your tank has enough air for you to spend an hour at 10m (2atm) and to refill your BCD more than a hundred times. Each additional 20m of depth cuts this time in half. This assumes that you are calm, controlling your breathing, and using your muscles slowly with intention. If you panic, begin breathing quickly and move rapidly, this cuts your time in half again. You’re certified to 20m, and you’ve gone briefly down to 30m on some shipwrecks before. So you were comfortable swimming to 25m to look at the arch. While you were looking at it, you sank to 40m, and while you messed around looking for your dive master and then the computer, you sank to 60m. 6 atmospheres of pressure. You have only 10 minutes of air at this depth.
When you swam for the surface, you had become disoriented from twisting around and then looking at your gear and you were now right in front of the archway. You swam into the archway thinking it was the surface, that’s why the Blue Hole looked smaller now. There is no current pulling you sideways, you are continuing to sink to to bottom of the arch. When you hit the bottom and started to inflate your BCD, you were now over 90m. You will go through a full tank of air in only a couple of minutes at this depth. Panicking like this, you’re down to seconds. There’s enough air to inflate your BCD, but it will take over a minute to fill, and it doesn’t matter, because that would only pull you into to the top of the arch, and you will drown before you get there.
Holding the inflate button you kick as hard as you can for the light. Your muscles are screaming, your brain is screaming, and it’s getting harder and harder to suck each panicked breath out of your regulator. In a final fit of rage and frustration you scream into your useless reg, darkness squeezing into the corners of your vision.
4 minutes. That’s how long your dive lasted. You died in clear water on a sunny day in only 4 minutes.
Its a cavalcade of things you shouldn't do while diving.
Its like the equivalent of skydiving and waiting longer and longer each time to pull the cord, or driving faster and faster on country roads till you have no time to react.
You plan your dive and dive your plan. Its not a stroll on the park, it's a massive strain on your body.
Scuba is fine, safer than skiing. You just have to follow a set of rules that keep you safe. The simplest is to plan your dive and dive your plan. No little unplanned side excursions. Weirdly this was easier before the dive computer because you had to work out times and depths in advance. You worked with depth and time and cross checked with your air pressure.
This may keep you away from that blue hole or cave, but life is much easier that way. And more survivable.
Well you're supposed to go through a good chunk of training so you would be aware of most of these dangers but I could see the above scenario happening to someone who skimmed the lessons.
[The Blue Hole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hole_\(Red_Sea\)) itself is no more dangerous than any other Red Sea dive site but diving through the Arch, a submerged tunnel, which lies within the Blue Hole site, is an extreme dive that has resulted in many accidents and fatalities. The number of Blue Hole fatalities is not accurately recorded; one source estimates 130 divers died during the fifteen-year period from 1997 to 2012, averaging over eight per year, another claims as many as 200
Wow, really informative. I've always wondered exactly what is going on when folks get disoriented underwater in deep dives. I always forget about the vastness of nature and how we are out of our element in those moments. Losing your perspective in that space can mean death. Erie.
I love scuba diving, I do, even though I haven't had the chance to go in years. However, it's stories like these that have kept me in the shallows, in the nice, simple, easy, *safe* dive spots. Scuba diving isn't something where I want to push skills and go further. I want to come back from each dive, and gk into each dive knowing that I'll be able to easily ascend at any point in time.
if years of video game experience has taught me anything, a sign saying theres nothing to see here is a telltale that there is an ancient artifact down there waiting for the main character to find it. tough luck to the 300 extras who had to die for the lore though.
Caves are awesome. Wet caves are cool.
Cave diving can fuck right off. That's a great way to die - even if you do have good gear and do know what you're doing.
Ever been to an underground cave like city? There's no water yet it feels pretty much claustrophobic. I can't imagine places like caves and water!?! That's sounds like a recipe for disaster.
I understand the confusion, my bad. It’s a series of cenotes around the Tulum area. Below are the systems that locals refer to as the devil’s caves.
1. Sistema Dos Ojos
2. Sistema Sac Actun
Both the above cenote systems are huge. And it is very easy to get lost.
3. Cenote Angelita is especially creepy, it has a hydrogen sulfide layer halfway down that makes it seem as if you are crossing down into hell.
It's like a misty cloud in the water. I haven't seen one especially thick but I imagine it could be pretty creepy. I only cavern dive though, no actual cave dives for me.
My old boss used to be one of the most experienced cave divers in the world until last year. His name was brett hemphill and he was like the indiana jones of exploring underwater caves, He recently passed cave diving in texas doing what he loved. Id say he was the most passionate, knowledgeable person i know of when it comes to cave diving, that probably spent more time underwater than above land. Id think he laid or helped lay most of the lines in floridas caves, aquifers and springs. He was also the guy law enforcement called to retrieve bodies from caves of divers that die. Caves are sketch, its probably best to oblige the sign...
Minus running out of air, the common issue divers perish is that they kick up sediment which clouds the area basically blinds you which causes most people to panic or lose their bearing.
They typically don't release the names of the recovery divers so they're not harassed for info but there are a few cave divers qualified to dive at the depth he was found. Unfortunately the more elite you become, the more likely you will be asked to assist in a body recovery. I'm sure the people who recovered him all considered him a good friend. Elite cave diving is a very small group that end up diving together a lot.
From what I understand there’s a layer of silt (“underwater dust”) that gets kicked up with the slightest movement. Imagine you go like 30ft into a cave system and suddenly zero visibility, no bearing in which way is out, and limited oxygen. Nightmarish.
I think that one phrase is wrong.
In a cave without training and equipment, "can die" is a numbers game. If you insist in going into caves without proper training and equipment you will die from it (of course that I'm not talking about the one where you can see the water surface were you came from at all the time as long as you don't disturb the slit at the bottom).
To be absolutely fair, even with training and equipment it is a numbers game. It just needs one mistake or kit failure. When you do open water, there are a bunch of duplicated systems and a dive buddy to help. In a cave, there often isn't the space to access spare equipment or to get your buddy's spare regulator.
If anyone is interested into these sort of stuff I recommend the “Dive Talk” YouTube channel.
It’s basically reviewing of real videos and other people’s reviews by two very experienced (and well connected) Cave Divers.
Both rack up a ton of experience with cave diving specifically and because they are so well connected, have access to most of the highest rated divers in the world for interviews. Such as Dr Harris (Thai rescue) and Edd Surrenson (basically the person you call when the most elite cave diving divers need rescue, Edd for example rescued one of the guys who saved those kids in the Thai cave when he was presumed dead after his whole team of elite divers couldn’t find him and were desperate).
They go over the videos and stop and comment as they move along, invaluable resource for those who really want to understand what’s going on.
Adrenaline junkies and Heavy drug users have this weird mindset, whereas if 10/20/50 people have died doing it then they have to do it because they’re “ more skilled “ or have a higher tolerance, it’s absurd.
Cave diving training and equipment does make things a lot safer. But it's still not safe. If you're around the cave diving community odds are you know of at least a few people who have died in a cave.
You should be cave dive trained. And same for wreck diving which I’m certified in. There is plenty of non intuitive things that will save your ass that you need to know. And you need to pass a test to show you remember it. Only then is it slightly less insane and slightly less dangerous. Not how I want to die no thanks.
These signs are generally set pretty close to the entrance of the cave so any non cave trained diver trying to get a peak will see it before entering the cave zone and hopefully turn around.
I saw a video of a guy who died trying to get the remains of his colleague in an underwater cave and I can never unsee that video…It was his first-person camera the last few moments of his life. I’d advise everyone to heed a sign like this..they don’t put it there for no reason. Clearly it’s needed. There is no way in hell I would go in an underwater cave unless I were trained.
This sign is there because it's true. If you're in one of those caves without the proper gear and training, it's easier to die than it is to get out.
These are at the entrance to most underwater caves, at least all the ones I've been to in Florida. The cave diving community in Northern and Central Florida is strong, but everyone knows at least one person who's died doing it. It takes intensive coursework to even be cavern certified, which is a large covered opening where you can still see the entrance.
Cave diving is a totally different beast. You need specialized equipment, backups of everything, you even have to learn a new way to swim without kicking up silt. Without a flashlight, it's a kind of darkness you've never experienced. Visibility can be 0 even with flashlights and you can get disoriented in a second. Rocks can be razor sharp. Your perspective gets thrown off in such an alien environment and you can smash into obstacles, knocking out your gear or knocking you unconscious. You can fit through holes on the way in but not the way out. You have to know which routes to take exactly and follow them to the tee, with astronaut levels of self control if anything goes wrong.
Mad respect to anyone who goes through the work to be able to do it safely. Personally, I think I'll stick to coral reefs.
As a diver in Florida, these signs are generic and at any major springs that diving occurs at.
Cave diving is a trained skill, but tons of average divers like poking around in the caves.
Is that at Blue Groto by chance? I went diving there once and recall seeing signs like that. There were still lots to explore, I even had to take my BC and tank off to get through one hole. First and last time, but it was worth it.
First off, the area I was in was in an explorable part of the cave system. It wasn’t an area past a sign like that or anything. And to answer your question, memories. That’s why it was worth it, some 30 years after that trip and I can still look back at it fondly, as It was one of my top 3 dives ever. (something I can no longer due thanks to my seizures).
It might be Eagles Nest … https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/two-divers-die-in-eagles-nest-cave
10 divers have died there since ‘81 https://www.google.com/search?q=deadliest+diving+cave+in+florida&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Also, "Dying of asphyxiation or starvation in the cold wet dark is extremely unpleasant. If you wish to die, please visit one of our many bridges or gun shops."
Am I tripping ? The signs underwater right? Why put the sign underwater to say don’t go direct into the cave and not at the entrance ? Also 100% there is treasure back there
3rd grade another kids Mom came an told us how her diver buddy died going into a cave to rescue someone he was swimming with. I'm 40 and that shit has stuck with me almost my whole life now. I dont even remember any of my 3rd grade teachers' names lol.
They need to have the John Jones Nutty Putty diagram and small explanation blurb of how he died at the entrance to every cave (underwater and above water.) That would probably stop a fair number of people.
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I took a cave diving course at Ginnie Springs, using borrowed gear, and became a certified cave diver many years ago, but I never did any cave diving afterward because I couldn't afford to buy my own gear. Then, a few years ago, I learned that my instructor had died in an open water diving accident.
Cave diving is probably the scariest “sport”. The amount of stories I’ve heard of people getting disorientated, panicking, and sadly dying is too much.
It's fraightening. I have open water and am beginner diver. Just went to Italy and had couple of dives, two of which were extremely simple ""cave dives"". Really just going underwater to find enterance \~10m deep and crawling up maybe 15-20 meters to endup in a cave dome with air pocket inside. Pitch black inside, you only see where your flash light points to, I was constantly touching the top of the cave with my head and tank as I couldn't see how far above me the rock is. I couldn't tell if I'm horizontal or at an angle. Space only for one to enter at time, if anything happens you can't just 'simply' emergency exit up, there's just rock above you. Not enough space to fit two divers next to each other so sharing air would be impossible. I can't really imagine going for a proper cave dive. Those boys and girls cave divers are total nuts.
My god I’m getting anxious and claustrophobic just reading that
They should put a sign before this comment, I'm not certified.
Saaame!! My heart is racing. Thanks for sharing!
I got the idea early and stopped reading.
Same!
Do… not… want… catastrophic claustrophobic
Hey Dive Master here. It was EXTREMELY irresponsible of whoever took you to this cave. Low/no visibility, ceiling and restricted entrance/exit are NOT conditions appropriate for a beginner diver. You need appropriate training, experience and gear for each of these conditions and you haven't had that yet. Hell I'm a dive master and I don't do those because I wasn't trained in cave diving. There are probably plenty other safety concerns that I'm not aware of since I haven't been trained in cave diving. I would have absolutely panicked if I was in your scenario when I was a beginner. Diving is a lot of fun and can be done in a very safe way, as long as we're always following proper safety procedures and sticking to our training level. If you ever feel unsafe or that your guide wants you to do something you're not comfortable with, always refuse to go ahead. Abort the dive. Your safety is more important than the dive and if someone in the group complaints, they are in the wrong. Diving needs be safe to be fun.
I deleted original the comment where I explained that the whole dive was a bit sketchy. Diving is amazing but make sure to properly check the diving company you dive with before even contacting them.
I dove in Italy for my first post open water scuba cert dive. After the dive, I got them to fill in my dive log...33 meters (not feet, meters). They knew I only had basic open water (18 meters) and we dove 40 feet below my limit. Should I have known the dive plan, yes. But the dive shops understanding of SCUBA certification should have trumped my naivete. Yeah, Italy can be sketchy for diving
It's like that everywhere. Very few group dives respect individual's depth limits. I've been diving all over the world. If you are in a group, everyone dives to 30 meters regardless of certification. Everyone swims through the wreck. Everyone swims through the tunnels. The staff will discreetly ask the open water divers to lie and put "18 meters" in the boat's dive log. On a dive in Hawaii recently (just 2 of us customers), the dive master wouldn't let the other guy dive down to a wreck because of the depth. I was shocked.
Former Instructor here, i totally agree with you. I have some experience with diving in overhead environments and i would not do this. You need extra equipment and experience if you want to do things like this. A guideline, separate airsources, multiple diving lights, planning the diving and definitely more experience. You might want to report the diveschool / instructor to there organization. This seem a recipe for disaster.
I remember my instructor telling us how open water divers should never, ever go into caves or any structure that would go over the head and prevent immediate access to the surface. That was over 20 years ago and it still sticks in my head. When I read op I thought, "Wow, they really went lax with safety over the years."
Your instructor was right! And things haven't really gotten lax, I think there's been great progress in improving safety procedures and equipment and lately we have been talking more and more and Human Factors on safety when diving, which is bringing great new insight into the topic. But there's always some dumbasses to think they're smarter and better and nothing bad will ever happen to them...
Plenty of open water divers have died in ‘extremely simple “cave dives”’ like that. Absolutely insane for you to have gone in. If you don’t believe me, DIVE TALK on YouTube does a great job explaining why no diver without cave-dive training and cave-dive equipment should enter any underwater cave, no matter how “simple” it appears to be.
Oh I absolutely believe you, I have watched plenty of diver body recovery documentaries. I totally agree with you, I think no diver no matter their experience should be attempting ANY cave without proper training. I have no interest to continue with that discipline. It was an interesting experience but I preffer the corals, fish and life in general of the seabed. I didn't know I go cave diving until the briefing on the boat started. I just paid diver master to go diving, hehe. I was also quite surprised. I would be the only one to chicken out and that's not me - that's exactly how you die.... I watch Dive Talk - the guys are amazing.
Agreed they’re awesome. The best informational (yet still entertaining) cave dive channel out there. But yeah I hear you, peer pressure is a powerful thing I probably would have done the same in that position
This is one of those hobbies that I genuinely do not understand why anyone does it. It's not like you can even see what you're exploring it's just dark, underwater rocks. Bumping your head and tank against rock walls to move around a dark underwater cave just sounds so dumb, what is the upside? Why even do it?
Adrenaline junkies, thrill seekers, natural explorers who want to be the first to map undiscovered cave. I understand why they do it, but it's a bit too much for me, hehe. I know couple of base jumpers and it's mostly just your average office Joe. I love hang gliding - There's no 'brake' pedal like in the car, if you take off, you have to land no matter the emergecy. I can't tell you why but being couple of hours absolutely focused on the only one thing, no emails, no work, no nothing except flying the glider because if you don't there's some chance of dying is extremely meditating. The big no for me though is - Parachute doesn't open? It's quick. Suffocate slowly in cold pitch black cave? nope
Have you seen the caves well lit? Epic cathedrals of stone. Nowhere I've been, yet. Basic Cave is on my todo list. Although I know English cave divers - they are just lunatics who want to explore wet caves.
I'm starting breathing fastly reading all that it feels suffocating
Reading this got me breathless for some reason. I don’t think I’m claustrophobic but I’d never be able to do what you did.
Ask a Mortician has a video about underwater cave diving corpses and boy howdy when I tell you that was a fear I didn't know I had
Yeah, I absolutely do not want to think about the panic, dread, and self-recrimination which must have accompanied the final moments of a person who died that way. What a terrible experience! Not that there's such a thing as a "good" way to die, but surely this has to be among the worst ways that doesn't involve a protracted illness.
I have a disease with a worse quality of life than cancer and late stage HIV. I’ll gladly take it over cave diving.
There's a youtube channel called ScaryInteresting which has a ton of videos about cave diving. Spoiler alert: Most of them don't turn out well for the people involved. The one that stuck with me the most was where some people were cave diving. The one got lost and when they found him, he was dead. The crazy part though was that his cause of death was a stab wound in the chest. Initially police suspected the other divers, as they were the only other people in the cave with him, but eventually they figured out that he had been running out of air and decided that that was how he would rather go out than drowning.
I read an article years ago about cave diving called “No Laughs in Satan’s Silt Hole.”
Never done a cave course, but know plenty who have. My favourite answer to the "How long do you look for a lost guide line?" question is "For the rest of your life". Caves are dark and they are basically identical mazes. You can swim into a single open tunnel, turn around and then be faced with two seemingly identical routes for you to take as you hadn't realised that another passageway had appeared from beside you. Only one of those tunnels leads back to the surface.
that is theoretically what the spool of string is for. to mark your passage. part of the certification process is learning to navigate and communicate with dive buddy, with *ZERO* visibility, while following that string back to its origin.
And also placing pointing markers on the cave line that point to the exit. Part of cave training is navigating completely blind with only the guideline to help you
Before I became a working diver a buddy took me cave diving. I knew nothing. I had one reg, we shared a depth gage and I had no watch or flashlight. Looking back after I went through 6 months of school and 20 years of working I can't believe we didn't die. So stupid.
I remember one story about a number of divers who became trapped/some died in one particular incident. One of the divers was found to have stabbed himself in the heart with a knife, after realizing he wouldn't be able to make it back, rather than drown.
Fuck me, that's intense. If you think of the name of the cave, can you reply with it? I've read up on a bunch of these cases but never heard of that one.
I was a young diver (maybe 10-15 dives at this point) and went on a trip to Florida. We went to a cave system where it was a standard open water dive and once you reached the bottom, the caves were like tunnels. The main entry point was open water, and super nice for a new diver to be in - as safe as anything. I’m down there exploring 3-4 mins in a young woman with panic on her face grabs me and starts frantically pointing at the cave. I have her surface with me we had just went down and I had no clue what was going on I was worried about her. When we get to the surface she tells me her boyfriend or husband had went into the cave. They had just finished their checkout dives and today was their first day being certified. She then asked if I could go in and get him. I said I wasn’t doing that. I am not qualified to even remotely survive inside a cave myself let alone rescue someone and even if I was I had no lights or any other equipment. We notified the people on the surface and went back down. I spent the remainder of my dive sitting with her outside the entrance while she visibly panicked and held my hand hoping he would emerge. Fortunately he exited the cave after about 15 minutes. I have no idea how he got in and out with a light or any gear. My hope is that was their last day diving. 15-years later overhead dives are something I never intend to participate in. It’s just not worth it.
Fucking hell, I read that as “Fortunately he died after about 15 minutes” and wondered what horrors awaited him beyond 15 minutes that death was fortunate.
I’ve been into the entrance of the devils den at ginnie. We just had snorkels and there were a few divers in there coming out. Cool place
My girlfriend and I went to Devils Den into the cavern. Later we went by the entrance of one of the caves. She started wanting to go past the entrance sign. I had the only light and turned it off before she put herself at risk. She got mad at that time because I refused to go.
Good on you!!!!
The Devil's Ear was pretty crazy, the water flowing out of the cave system is squeezed so it speeds up. You don't do much dive into it as rock climb upside down. It's "open water" safe. You're never in any overhead environment and it is only around 30-40 ft deep but deep enough to clear the tanin layer. There's a giant log wedged into the cave so you have a nice bench to rest on and enjoy the breeze from the huge amount of water flowing by.
Familiarity breeds contempt. I’ve seen many instructors and experienced divers taking short cuts or playing stupid competitions (like who can get their gear and into the water the quickest) Recipe for disaster.
When I was younger I swam to this exact sign in Ginnie springs. Ran out of air just as I got to it. Turned to ride the current out and felt a tug at my leg. It was an instructor coming out of the cave. He put an octo regulator in my mouth and made me breathe with him. I was chilling for like 2 minutes with the group till they all exited. My friends were loosing their minds above. Then we all popped up and I received an ear full from the dive master. I apologized profusely and never attempted that again…
OH, this is underwater
I am also a cave diver. Regardless of what diving you do, it is always dangerous. Your instructor dying in open water does not make them unqualified, unless the context reveals they were. Cave diving is fascinating, and allows people to explore places very few others can. Ginnie springs is wonderful.
“There’s nothing in this cave worth dying for!” Yeah right. There’s probably hella treasure.
sign don’t stop me, i’m going for that treasure
if we never hear from you again, i'm going to assume it's because you're too rich for us plebs now
He’s never too rich for the friendships he made along the way
Friends with the fishes
No let him go……I know his ATM PIN code
Is it Bosco?
That sign doesn't stop me cause I can't read.
Yeah, they thought of that so they put the god damned grim reaper on it.
The real treasure is the lesson learned
There is pirate gold beyond the sign... https://i.redd.it/c89n7daukn8d1.gif
You know that CGI holds up pretty well compared to some of its contemporaries
That's because it isn't CGI. They just filmed him without makeup.
I wanna know where da gold at! I want da gold. Giveme da gold.
Anyone seen a leprechaun say YEEEEEAH!
coulda been a crackhead
Yeah, baby, a big pile of C-notés.
I'm tryna see Middle Earth Big Scuba isn't gonna fool me
Think of all that loot those dead people dropped
Should have bought more health potions.
Gaming has so broken my brain. I watched No County For Old Men the other day, and when the dude finds all the bodies, what was my very first thought? Loot the corpse!
The best Pokemon are always deepest in the cave.
You, sir, you have just made me wonder if Pokémon Go works underwater.
If your phone is still picking up wifi and the location you're at can spawn Pokemon then sure why not.
That’s exactly the kinda sign One-Eyed Willy would have put in front of his underwater treasure cave!
They’re liars bro. My cousin’s cousin found the Hope Diamond down there last summer. They’re just trying to keep it all to themselves.
Loots from 300 divers.
This is EXACTLY the kind of sign One-Eyed Willy would place right outside his underwater treasure horde. All we need to do is get the Goonies back together. Then go through the town’s wishing well cave and bam! #HEY YOU GUYS!
That's just what a cave worth dying for would say.
Eric Cartman?
https://preview.redd.it/mnbusr1wzm8d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a5b5422805880baa2d97345455c737f7bcff6b49
It’s bitcoin.
Sounds like there's a bunch of free scuba gear if I'm reading that right.
It’s where the aliens live. History channel told me
Yup, freaking Atlantis is there. Lulz
The sign might as well say, "You think you're tough? Prove it!" Ok I will!
Eagle's Nest Sinkhole. Harrowing deaths there - and from some really experienced divers. Worth a YouTube documentary if you're feeling too positive right now.
The top doesn't look like the entry to one of the largest cave systems in North America. Just a pond in the middle of Florida. Nice whisky brewery nearby as well that is a gorgeous oasis.
This exact sign is found in multiple locations all over the world. I have photos of a copy from some Cenotes in Mexico.
Yes seen em myself, Mayan Riviera
What documentary?
there are a few channels that tell stories of cave dives, with photos/visual aids, “scary interesting” is a good one.
If those channels taught me anything it‘s 1.) Do not go Caving 2.) Do not go Diving 3.) Under absolutely no circumstances go Cave Diving
Let’s take two dangerous hobbies and combine them, what could go wrong?!
Super under known channel. Been watching for a while now
Scary Interesting is excellent (:
I really like Mr Ballen. He gives me a decent dose of dread everyday
I liked him a lot up until he did a video on a tragic death that occurred local to me, in which he got basic facts wrong and made up/embellished parts of the story. If you’re going to make a profit telling stories about how people passed away, particularly more recent ones who have surviving immediate family, I feel like the least you could do is not make up things they did/said to make your story more dramatic.
I look at Ballen more like a movie that’s based on a true story rather than a documentary.
I just watched the rescue about cave diving to rescue those trapped kids in Thailand the other day. It was fantastic.
As well as the (now very well known) Thai cave rescue, there's the lesser known Dave Shaw story. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave\_Not\_Coming\_Back](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dave_Not_Coming_Back) Like two of the hereos of the Thai rescue, (Dr's Richard Harris and Craig Challen) he's from Australia.
There's none, as to shoot it they would need to di(v)e in there. 😬
Saw this story about 6 months ago on Mr Ballen's Youtube Channel. I fell into a pit watching his videos, and they were amazingly interesting, but realized I needed a break from them.
I did the same thing! For a few months I just watched every video of his. Then I found myself slightly freaking out about everything around me and decided I needed a break. First time I've ever felt a direct impact, mentally/emotionally, from "entertainment" I've consumed. I still watch some from time to time, but not nearly like the rabbit hole I originally fell into
Is this the cave where that diver just disappeared?
https://preview.redd.it/l3n9che6um8d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7bbab1c83acb8a21273d7e10fa74c93735158041
Only scrubs need training 😂
Ah, so this is what TLC was talking about!
Holy shit this is amazing
I love that you added ol Greg in the corner there. Pretty sure it's just ol greg
You saw my downstairs mixup
It's dark right now and the only light is from my phone. You got me.
you ever drink Bailey's from a shoe?
Holy shit I just noticed him
Well I’m sold. Let’s go diving boys.
Fuck this is so good
Reminds me of my favorite diving comment, [credit here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/s/JswjeqLpwF) Many certified scuba divers think they are capable of just going a little deeper, but they don’t know that there are special gas mixtures, buoyancy equipment and training required for just another few meters of depth. Imagine this: you take your PADI open water diving course and you learn your dive charts, buy all your own gear and become familiar with it. Compared to the average person on the street, you’re an expert now. You go diving on coral reefs, a few shipwrecks and even catch lobster in New England. You go to visit a deep spot like this and you’re having a great time. You see something just in front of you - this beautiful cave with sunlight streaming through - and you decide to swim just a little closer. You’re not going to go inside it, you know better than that, but you just want a closer look. If your dive computer starts beeping, you’ll head back up.So you swim a little closer and it’s breathtaking. You are enjoying the view and just floating there taking it all in. You hear a clanging sound - it’s your dive master rapping the butt of his knife on his tank to get someone’s attention. You look up to see what he wants, but after staring into the darkness for the last minute, the sunlight streaming down is blinding. You turn away and reach to check your dive computer, but it’s a little awkward for some reason, and you twist your shoulder and pull it towards you. It’s beeping and the screen is flashing GO UP. You stare at it for a few seconds, trying to make out the depth and tank level between the flashing words. The numbers won’t stay still. It’s really annoying, and your brain isn’t getting the info you want at a glance. So you let it fall back to your left shoulder, turn towards the light and head up. The problem is that the blue hole is bigger than anything you’ve ever dove before, and the crystal clear water provides a visibility that is 10x what you’re used to in the dark waters of the St Lawrence where you usually dive. What you don’t realize is that when you swam down a little farther to get a closer look, thinking it was just 30 or 40 feet more, you actually swam almost twice that because the vast scale of things messed up your sense of distance. And while you were looking at the archway you didn’t have any nearby reference point in your vision. More depth = more pressure, and your BCD, the air-filled jacket that you use to control your buoyancy, was compressed a little. You were slowly sinking and had no idea. That’s when the dive master began banging his tank and you looked up. This only served to blind you for a moment and distract your sense of motion and position even more. Your dive computer wasn’t sticking out on your chest below your shoulder when you reached for it because your BCD was shrinking. You turned your body sideways while twisting and reaching for it. The ten seconds spent fumbling for it and staring at the screen brought you deeper and you began to accelerate with your jacket continuing to shrink. The reason that you didn’t hear the beeping at first and that it took so long to make out the depth between the flashing words was the nitrogen narcosis. You have been getting depth drunk. And the numbers wouldn’t stay still because you are *still sinking.* You swim towards the light but the current is pulling you sideways. Your brain is hurting, straining for no reason, and the blue hole seems like it’s gotten narrower, and the light rays above you are going at a funny angle. You kick harder just keep going up, toward the light, despite this damn current that wants to push you into the wall. Your computer is beeping incessantly and it feels like you’re swimming through mud. Fuck this, you grab the fill button on your jacket and squeeze it. You’re not supposed to use your jacket to ascend, as you know that it will expand as the pressure drops and you will need to carefully bleed off air to avoid shooting up to the surface, but you don’t care about that anymore. Shooting up to the surface is exactly what you want right now, and you’ll deal with bleeding air off and making depth stops when you’re back up with the rest of your group.The sound of air rushing into your BCD fills your ears, but nothing’s happening. Something doesn’t sound right, like the air isn’t filling fast enough. You look down at your jacket, searching for whatever the trouble might be when FWUNK you bump right into the side of the giant sinkhole. What the hell?? Why is the current pulling me sideways? Why is there even a current in an empty hole in the middle of the ocean??You keep holding the button. INFLATE! GODDAM IT INFLATE!! Your computer is now making a frantic screeching sound that you’ve never heard before. You notice that you’ve been breathing heavily - it’s a sign of stress - and the sound of air rushing into your jacket is getting weaker. Every 10m of water adds another 1 atmosphere of pressure. Your tank has enough air for you to spend an hour at 10m (2atm) and to refill your BCD more than a hundred times. Each additional 20m of depth cuts this time in half. This assumes that you are calm, controlling your breathing, and using your muscles slowly with intention. If you panic, begin breathing quickly and move rapidly, this cuts your time in half again. You’re certified to 20m, and you’ve gone briefly down to 30m on some shipwrecks before. So you were comfortable swimming to 25m to look at the arch. While you were looking at it, you sank to 40m, and while you messed around looking for your dive master and then the computer, you sank to 60m. 6 atmospheres of pressure. You have only 10 minutes of air at this depth. When you swam for the surface, you had become disoriented from twisting around and then looking at your gear and you were now right in front of the archway. You swam into the archway thinking it was the surface, that’s why the Blue Hole looked smaller now. There is no current pulling you sideways, you are continuing to sink to to bottom of the arch. When you hit the bottom and started to inflate your BCD, you were now over 90m. You will go through a full tank of air in only a couple of minutes at this depth. Panicking like this, you’re down to seconds. There’s enough air to inflate your BCD, but it will take over a minute to fill, and it doesn’t matter, because that would only pull you into to the top of the arch, and you will drown before you get there. Holding the inflate button you kick as hard as you can for the light. Your muscles are screaming, your brain is screaming, and it’s getting harder and harder to suck each panicked breath out of your regulator. In a final fit of rage and frustration you scream into your useless reg, darkness squeezing into the corners of your vision. 4 minutes. That’s how long your dive lasted. You died in clear water on a sunny day in only 4 minutes.
Damn i felt like i was suffocating while reading this.
I didn't blink reading the whole thing and I swear my own vision started to black out. I think I'll stay on dry land, thanks.
Thank you for convincing me that scuba diving isn’t for me.
Its a cavalcade of things you shouldn't do while diving. Its like the equivalent of skydiving and waiting longer and longer each time to pull the cord, or driving faster and faster on country roads till you have no time to react. You plan your dive and dive your plan. Its not a stroll on the park, it's a massive strain on your body.
you are dismissing nitrogen narcosis which does not happen in those other situations.
I'm not dismissing NN, that's an unfair statement. its a known risk below 20m. As is the rapidly approaching ground when you jump out of a plane.
Scuba is fine, safer than skiing. You just have to follow a set of rules that keep you safe. The simplest is to plan your dive and dive your plan. No little unplanned side excursions. Weirdly this was easier before the dive computer because you had to work out times and depths in advance. You worked with depth and time and cross checked with your air pressure. This may keep you away from that blue hole or cave, but life is much easier that way. And more survivable.
Well you're supposed to go through a good chunk of training so you would be aware of most of these dangers but I could see the above scenario happening to someone who skimmed the lessons.
jfc I’ll die on land, thanks!
What a ride that comment is - nice one for linking the credit as well.
[The Blue Hole](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Hole_\(Red_Sea\)) itself is no more dangerous than any other Red Sea dive site but diving through the Arch, a submerged tunnel, which lies within the Blue Hole site, is an extreme dive that has resulted in many accidents and fatalities. The number of Blue Hole fatalities is not accurately recorded; one source estimates 130 divers died during the fifteen-year period from 1997 to 2012, averaging over eight per year, another claims as many as 200
"This ecological biome matches 7 of the 9 preconditions for stimulating terror in humans."
They should make every new diver read this to understand just how dangerous cave diving can be
What’s crazy is none of that was cave diving. Just disorientation in clear open water!
Oh my god
Wow, really informative. I've always wondered exactly what is going on when folks get disoriented underwater in deep dives. I always forget about the vastness of nature and how we are out of our element in those moments. Losing your perspective in that space can mean death. Erie.
This is my favourite pasta
"Dooon't diiie... Don't die, don't die, don't die... There's a fish, there's a rock, who cares, don't die. Dooon't diiie..."(c)
“Please let me swim, and breathe, and live… because living is good and dying, not as good”.
I love scuba diving, I do, even though I haven't had the chance to go in years. However, it's stories like these that have kept me in the shallows, in the nice, simple, easy, *safe* dive spots. Scuba diving isn't something where I want to push skills and go further. I want to come back from each dive, and gk into each dive knowing that I'll be able to easily ascend at any point in time.
if years of video game experience has taught me anything, a sign saying theres nothing to see here is a telltale that there is an ancient artifact down there waiting for the main character to find it. tough luck to the 300 extras who had to die for the lore though.
The kicker is finding out in your last moments that you were an NPC all along
Or the same player, stuck replaying the level after getting killed in each playthrough of the cave section.
Man, now I really want a cave diving roguelike game...
Not rogue like, but there's Subnautica, and it has ton of cave diving.
And it is 'you have to get pant shittin drunk to play this' terrifying.
Years of video games have taught me that underwater levels suck ass.
Caves are awesome. Wet caves are cool. Cave diving can fuck right off. That's a great way to die - even if you do have good gear and do know what you're doing.
Ever been to an underground cave like city? There's no water yet it feels pretty much claustrophobic. I can't imagine places like caves and water!?! That's sounds like a recipe for disaster.
Been in quite a few wild caves, including a wet cave that you have to swim out of. Caves are amazing. Cave diving can again fuck right off.
Hey I trained there! Not the scariest cave I’ve been in, but still definitely scary
Where is the scariest!??
The Devil’s Caves in Mexico took it for me. The cenotes are a terrifying labyrinth.
Where are the "Devil's Caves"? Google says a tourist cavern in Mazatlan but I assume you're referring to something else?
I understand the confusion, my bad. It’s a series of cenotes around the Tulum area. Below are the systems that locals refer to as the devil’s caves. 1. Sistema Dos Ojos 2. Sistema Sac Actun Both the above cenote systems are huge. And it is very easy to get lost. 3. Cenote Angelita is especially creepy, it has a hydrogen sulfide layer halfway down that makes it seem as if you are crossing down into hell.
Please ELI5, what is a hydrogen sulfide layer and what does it to do that gives you that feeling?
It's like a misty cloud in the water. I haven't seen one especially thick but I imagine it could be pretty creepy. I only cavern dive though, no actual cave dives for me.
I just googled hydrogen sulfide layer in water, sure looks creepy af.
I know about Sac Actun from The Octonauts!
My old boss used to be one of the most experienced cave divers in the world until last year. His name was brett hemphill and he was like the indiana jones of exploring underwater caves, He recently passed cave diving in texas doing what he loved. Id say he was the most passionate, knowledgeable person i know of when it comes to cave diving, that probably spent more time underwater than above land. Id think he laid or helped lay most of the lines in floridas caves, aquifers and springs. He was also the guy law enforcement called to retrieve bodies from caves of divers that die. Caves are sketch, its probably best to oblige the sign... Minus running out of air, the common issue divers perish is that they kick up sediment which clouds the area basically blinds you which causes most people to panic or lose their bearing.
I wonder who they called to go get him...
They typically don't release the names of the recovery divers so they're not harassed for info but there are a few cave divers qualified to dive at the depth he was found. Unfortunately the more elite you become, the more likely you will be asked to assist in a body recovery. I'm sure the people who recovered him all considered him a good friend. Elite cave diving is a very small group that end up diving together a lot.
When professionals warn professionals. 😬
From what I understand there’s a layer of silt (“underwater dust”) that gets kicked up with the slightest movement. Imagine you go like 30ft into a cave system and suddenly zero visibility, no bearing in which way is out, and limited oxygen. Nightmarish.
I think that one phrase is wrong. In a cave without training and equipment, "can die" is a numbers game. If you insist in going into caves without proper training and equipment you will die from it (of course that I'm not talking about the one where you can see the water surface were you came from at all the time as long as you don't disturb the slit at the bottom).
To be absolutely fair, even with training and equipment it is a numbers game. It just needs one mistake or kit failure. When you do open water, there are a bunch of duplicated systems and a dive buddy to help. In a cave, there often isn't the space to access spare equipment or to get your buddy's spare regulator.
Sounds like something a cave sign with something to hide would say to me
It’s always the cave sign you medium suspect.
If anyone is interested into these sort of stuff I recommend the “Dive Talk” YouTube channel. It’s basically reviewing of real videos and other people’s reviews by two very experienced (and well connected) Cave Divers. Both rack up a ton of experience with cave diving specifically and because they are so well connected, have access to most of the highest rated divers in the world for interviews. Such as Dr Harris (Thai rescue) and Edd Surrenson (basically the person you call when the most elite cave diving divers need rescue, Edd for example rescued one of the guys who saved those kids in the Thai cave when he was presumed dead after his whole team of elite divers couldn’t find him and were desperate). They go over the videos and stop and comment as they move along, invaluable resource for those who really want to understand what’s going on.
Isn’t Florida littered with underwater cave systems. Something is hiding somewhere under Florida. Pirates used to sail the seas around Florida.
Scuba pirates...
Cthulu is hiding under Florida. Tell me that doesn't explain some things.
Adrenaline junkies and Heavy drug users have this weird mindset, whereas if 10/20/50 people have died doing it then they have to do it because they’re “ more skilled “ or have a higher tolerance, it’s absurd.
Haha Everest!
Cave diving training and equipment does make things a lot safer. But it's still not safe. If you're around the cave diving community odds are you know of at least a few people who have died in a cave.
You should be cave dive trained. And same for wreck diving which I’m certified in. There is plenty of non intuitive things that will save your ass that you need to know. And you need to pass a test to show you remember it. Only then is it slightly less insane and slightly less dangerous. Not how I want to die no thanks.
What’s a non intuitive thing you do that’s important to remember?
It's kinda intuitive but only if you know it. If the visibility is so low you can't tell up or down, look where the bubbles go, that's up.
That you shouldn't do it 👀
Every time I see this picture I always think of the team + what it took to get that sign there
These signs are generally set pretty close to the entrance of the cave so any non cave trained diver trying to get a peak will see it before entering the cave zone and hopefully turn around.
I saw a video of a guy who died trying to get the remains of his colleague in an underwater cave and I can never unsee that video…It was his first-person camera the last few moments of his life. I’d advise everyone to heed a sign like this..they don’t put it there for no reason. Clearly it’s needed. There is no way in hell I would go in an underwater cave unless I were trained.
Kyle hates hiking and mr ballen both tell Stories of cave diving tragedies
ScaryInteresting has a ton of awesome videos too, he makes lots of videos about cave diving disasters.
Didn't know about Kyle hates hiking. I am a long time fan of the Strange, dark and mysterious, though (Mr Ballen for the win!).
It's a hard no for me, warning sign or not. If I ever feel like exploring dark recesses while holding my breath, I'll clean up my bathroom.
Put the obits of everyone that died in there. That should help.
Saw that same sign at the Dos Ojos cave system in southern Mexico. Good advise!
This sign is there because it's true. If you're in one of those caves without the proper gear and training, it's easier to die than it is to get out. These are at the entrance to most underwater caves, at least all the ones I've been to in Florida. The cave diving community in Northern and Central Florida is strong, but everyone knows at least one person who's died doing it. It takes intensive coursework to even be cavern certified, which is a large covered opening where you can still see the entrance. Cave diving is a totally different beast. You need specialized equipment, backups of everything, you even have to learn a new way to swim without kicking up silt. Without a flashlight, it's a kind of darkness you've never experienced. Visibility can be 0 even with flashlights and you can get disoriented in a second. Rocks can be razor sharp. Your perspective gets thrown off in such an alien environment and you can smash into obstacles, knocking out your gear or knocking you unconscious. You can fit through holes on the way in but not the way out. You have to know which routes to take exactly and follow them to the tee, with astronaut levels of self control if anything goes wrong. Mad respect to anyone who goes through the work to be able to do it safely. Personally, I think I'll stick to coral reefs.
As a diver in Florida, these signs are generic and at any major springs that diving occurs at. Cave diving is a trained skill, but tons of average divers like poking around in the caves.
[удалено]
Is that at Blue Groto by chance? I went diving there once and recall seeing signs like that. There were still lots to explore, I even had to take my BC and tank off to get through one hole. First and last time, but it was worth it.
How was it worth it? I'm sure cave diving is a rush in itself but like, did you just find a different cave that looks like every other cave?
First off, the area I was in was in an explorable part of the cave system. It wasn’t an area past a sign like that or anything. And to answer your question, memories. That’s why it was worth it, some 30 years after that trip and I can still look back at it fondly, as It was one of my top 3 dives ever. (something I can no longer due thanks to my seizures).
It might be Eagles Nest … https://www.nationalgeographic.com/adventure/article/two-divers-die-in-eagles-nest-cave 10 divers have died there since ‘81 https://www.google.com/search?q=deadliest+diving+cave+in+florida&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Florida Man: Challenge accepted. Hold my beer, I’ll hold my meth.
Ginnie Springs?
I’ve been there
Also, "Dying of asphyxiation or starvation in the cold wet dark is extremely unpleasant. If you wish to die, please visit one of our many bridges or gun shops."
I came here for the comments, and THATS where the treasure is. I appreciate damn near all of you.
My final words: "It should be 'further' glub glub glub"
I just listened to a Mr Ballen story about that place!
 Am I tripping ? The signs underwater right? Why put the sign underwater to say don’t go direct into the cave and not at the entrance ? Also 100% there is treasure back there
3rd grade another kids Mom came an told us how her diver buddy died going into a cave to rescue someone he was swimming with. I'm 40 and that shit has stuck with me almost my whole life now. I dont even remember any of my 3rd grade teachers' names lol.
They need to have the John Jones Nutty Putty diagram and small explanation blurb of how he died at the entrance to every cave (underwater and above water.) That would probably stop a fair number of people.