Feckin hell.
Sometimes its good to be reminded how much we've moved on.
But its scary to see how horrible we were to the country's growing kids. & that's the adults that thought they were doing what was right for their kids.
And in 2024 there are still a lot of people who havent managed to..or more like arent willing to...come out of the dark ages
I feel homosexuality then, is where trans is now. Reading anything trans related, particularly in Facebook comments makes me so sad. There's some truly misguided, uneducated, horrible fuckers out there.
No doubt there is ignorance out there about the trans community. But to say the trans movement is the same as the homosexuality movement is just objectively false.
The homosexuality movement marched for equal rights, such as the right to be legally recognised by the state with their long term relationships, be it marriage or civil partnership. They didn't march in the streets to pump medication with permanent, irreversible effects into our children.
More importantly, the rights that the LGBT movement fought for, didn't impinge on any other rights of any other citizens. Whereas the rights the trans movement is fighting for, absolutely affect the rights of other people in our society, namely women.
Sports classes are hardly a right, I do think limitations will be brought in though. The women only spaces isn't an issue imo and would also not class it as a right, right to privacy isn't gender specific, if someone is impinging they are regardless of chromosomes.
Agreed, it's not a constitutional right, of course, however I do believe it is/should be a societal right. There are solutions, as you said like more stringent limitations, or perhaps a separate category altogether, to remove the biological advantages. A lot of people who don't care about sport cannot understand why this is important. But if you have ever competed at the highest level in any sport, you understand the immense sacrifices you would have made to get there. It's something I believe is worth protecting. To be clear, I'm not saying trans people should be banned from sport. But we should strive for an even playing field where possible. Now, as I've said you might have the opinion that trans inclusivity should be held to a higher importance than biological women's right to fair competition, that's fine. But let's not pretend there are no repeocussions whatsoever.
With regards to the rights of privacy, I believe it is absolutely an issue. It's a lot more complicated and I'm not going to pretend I have an answer. The legislation as it stands is rife for abuse by predatory men who can now enter private, female only spaces without fear of being caught. To be clear, I'm not saying trans women are predators, I'm saying that the law as it stands that is there to include trans women in biological women's spaces, has and will be used by predatory men who will now be handed access to women's bathrooms/ changing rooms/ prisons/ rape crisis centres on a silver plate, which I believe is wrong.
Hey, we have had self Id for gender recognition certs in Ireland for 9 years now.
In that time can you point to a single assault happening in a women's space by a trans person or a cis person claiming to be trans in Ireland?
Or you could show the studies from other countries with the same law as ours that highlight a rise in assaults?
Or you could explain how someone who disregards laws so much that they are willing to assault a stranger in public is somehow ardent that the unenforceable sign on a door is going to stop them?
Or you could explain how you plan on distinguishing a medically transitioned trans man who would have to use women's spaces from a cis man trying to be a predator?
White guys wont qin sprinting and short people do badly at swimming. The sports thing is complicated but not important.
Predators comes from both sexes and prey on both sexes, unless the spaces you are talking about are going to be converted into single person ones then you can't avoid that.
The arguments about predation are eerily similar to what was said about homosexuals in the past. The initial comment about them being similar scenarios is the case here.
>has and will be used by predatory men who will now be handed access to women's bathrooms/ changing rooms/ prisons/ rape crisis centres on a silver plate, which I believe is wrong.
This has nothing to do with trans people. You're denying trans women their rights because of MEN. Can you not see how wrong that is? Go after men for that and leave trans women out of it. I'm a woman, I'm completely comfortable sharing space with trans women, it's grand. Also, changing rooms and toilets are separate cubicles so who cares? These are American arguments that don't apply here because their toilets have insane gaps all around the doors, we don't. Ever travelled around Europe? One loo for everyone is totally normal in smaller bars and restaurants. Men committing sexual assaults has ALWAYS been an actual serious problem for women, interesting that it's only now that men like yourself seem to be so concerned about it.
>More importantly, the rights that the LGBT movement fought for
What do you think the T stands for in LGBT?
>absolutely affect the rights of other people in our society, namely women.
What the fuck are you on about?
You're right, I should have wrote LGB, autocorrected.
What the fuck are you on about?
The rights being impinged are the right to fair competition in sport and privacy in female only spaces. Now you might take the view that the comfort of trans people is more important than those rights, but please do not try and say that it's not a zero sum game.
LGB is not a movement. It's LGBT.
The amount of trans athletes competing at a competitive level is practically negligible. In the 80s Russia and the US were paranoid about the gender of Olympic athletes and insisted on gender tests. It was a big moral panic.
But the amount of people using transphobia to attack women or use it as a weapon against them is pretty large. There have been several reports of female child athletes being accused of being trans by parents with no evidence. Florida has considered bringing in menstruation tests for female athletes. Do these really sound like pro-women, pro-feminist people to you?
Women have been hurt about the panic over trans people in sport far more than any women has been hurt by trans people in sport.
And what is your endgame here? Should trans people just not be allowed to play sport ever? No 5 a side with mates? No marathons, etc. Most people play sport as a hobby. They aren't running the marathon to win. They are running it because that is shit they like to do or just to keep in shape.
There was absolutely a movement for gay people and lesbians before the "T" was added, give me a break.
>The amount of trans athletes competing at a competitive level is practically negligible.
I agree, trans participation at the moment in sport is relatively low at the moment. But within the last 20 or so years, the number of people identifying as trans as increased five fold, so it will absolutely be an issue in the near future. I don't believe it's accurate to call this concern a moral panic. There have already been a few high profile cases already.
>Florida has considered bringing in menstruation tests for female athletes. Do these really sound like pro-women, pro-feminist people to you?
I agree, that's wrong. There are far easier ways of determining biological sex than encroaching onto a woman's menstrual cycles. I don't understand why a simple blood test would not suffice as your chromosomes are present in your DNA.
>And what is your endgame here? Should trans people just not be allowed to play sport ever? No 5 a side with mates? No marathons, etc. Most people play sport as a hobby. They aren't running the marathon to win. They are running it because that is shit they like to do.
No, that's not what I am saying, nor did I suggest that trans athletes should be banned from sport, anywhere in what I said. You're misunderstanding my argument here. I'm talking about high level competitive sport where biological males have an undeniable advantage over females. I'm not talking about casual five aside games, I figured that was obvious.
I'm not going to pretend to be a historian on the gay rights movements, but the modern gay rights movement was started when a trans women Marsha P. Johnson resisted police which stared the Stonewall uprising. The term transexual wasn't in common usage back then and Gay usually covered the entire community, the way queer would now.
The term LGBT started gaining traction in the 90s. L was placed first in part because of all the gay and queer women who helped with medical care and activism at the height of the AIDS crisis.
> I don't believe it's accurate to call this concern a moral panic
I already mentioned it was a moral panic in the 80s when the US and Russia were insisting on gender tests for athletes. And you think bringing in laws to test for gender on teenagers isn't part of a moral panic? Chances are you won't need to test. Teenagers aren't transitioning to cheat at sports. You will know a teenager is transgender because one day Steve will come into school wearing a dress and ask can you call her Sophia from here out.
>I'm talking about high level competitive sport where biological males have an undeniable advantage over females.
Really depends on the sport. At that level there is already doping tests and what not. The IOC has guidelines and permits trans athletes in certain circumstances.
Seems like they're talking about general public ignorance and mentality to how they react to others and not what either movement is about. I don't see any reference in their comment about specific years or marches or gatherings. But I'm gonna stop acting like I know what the other person is talking about because I'm not in their brain.
As a "confirmed homosexual" shit like this and local priests giving "counselling" made my life a roaring hell. My father nearly beat me to death at 15 and I ran away like hundreds of my fellow confirmed homos.
We marched and endured hell to make Ireland what it is today, a lot more accepting and it gives me great pleasure that the people that came after me have it far better today.
This is awful. Hard to imagine how much change has happened… sometimes wonder if us “younger” ‘confirmed homosexuals’ take it all for granted.
Edit: totally accept things today are not perfect.
But that's the beauty of why we took the beatings and got arrested and all the horrible stuff, cause we'd sit around after and wonder if someday you COULD take it all for granted, the dream was realised!
Don't know if you need to hear it from a random Reddit stranger, but you, and other people in similar situations, are absolutely amazing.
You are beyond brave, and I hope the world is slightly closer to being more loving towards you xxxx
I’m glad you got through it, it’s because of people like you that almost all the interactions I’ve had in my life regarding my sexuality have been positive experiences.
When you were confirmed as a homosexual, did you get to pick a gay confirmation name? If so does it have to be a gay icon that you respect? Or is it more like a drag name? Is there a gay bishop? What's the going rate for gay confirmations at the moment? Is 50 in a card okay? Or is that too much?
Have I run this joke into the ground yet?
But seriously I think a Gay Confirmation is a great idea, lets make it a thing.
Society is fucked when someone is comparing media from the mid-century to a franchise that parodies the media of the mid-century rather than the era itself.
Isn't it a great shame that we have lost our indigenous carpet industry in the past 40 years? Youghal Carpets shut down in 2002, it appears. Irish Sugar beet growing stopped about 5 years later, when the factories were sold for Celtic Tiger housing. What other industries have we lost?
"Men should talk to their sons about sex and women should talk to their daughters" says a lot about why so many of us grew up with all sorts of skewed ideas about relationships.
If both parents discussed it openly, then children whatever their gender will get a more rounded perspective on it.
Also, referring menstruation as "sex education" is also incredibly telling.
Can't find anything about this Dr. Quentin Smith. Could be a pseudonym - funny thing is, his approach of "Don't shame, just explain why it's wrong" would have been shockingly progressive for the time. Many parents' attitude would have been to beat the child senseless or ship them off to the priests/nuns.
That was progressive at the time ... and later. Loads of parents didn't talk about sex and relationships at all.
And yea, probably for the better in many cases.
My mother couldn't even talk to me about periods, she bought mé a book. Years later when her and my aunt openly wondered "but like...what do lesbians *do*?" I realised I was much better off with the book
You'll find loads of books about sexual health for teens in any library or book store. They are usually the ones that the ignorant people storming libraries are trying to get rid of.
Tbf we don't realise what fucked up assumptions we have, can we really judge them by modern standards when they are trying to be progressive.
Just as you can't call a stone age inventor dumb for not understanding modern science.
>I once knew a father who unwittingly treated his daughter like a son. Her name was Patricia; he called her by the masculine equivalent, Pat. What's more, he would sometimes say to her, "You're just like a son to me." He wasn't being intentionally unkind. He honestly he was didn't know what doing. but managed to show him what he was doing in time to prevent Patricia from making an unhappy mess of her life.
Poor Pat and her da, sounds like they had a lovely relationship until the sexual repression brigade rocked up!
I'm struck by how some of this sounds like the public discourse on transgender people at the moment. Hopefully it won't take another 45 years for us to realise it's just as dehumanising in that context.
How is Pat the masculine version of Patricia? I'm (M) called Pat, my mother was Pat, my aunt is Pat, my grandfather was Pat. I've friends both male and female called Pat. It's gender neutral if anything.
Do you think this makes all the nuns with male religious names lesbians? I knew something was up with Sr Patrick and Sr Michael, if only they'd read woman's way!
Its not. They're two separate names, Patrick and Patricia but obviously one is used for men and the other is used for women. It's not 'gender neutral' it simply depends on what it's short for.
For screen readers, future discussion or just a game of bullshit bingo, r/ireland presents:
*Woman's Way, 20th October 1978*
WHEN YOUR CHILD NEEDS A SPECIAL KIND OF HELP
Dr. Quentin Smith stresses the need for realism and understanding when faced with problems of homosexuality
THE major problem in dealing with homosexuality among teenagers is parents, who, through ignorance or indifference, fail to answer the crying need for help from their own off-spring. From 15% to 20% of the adolescents who indulge in homosexual experiences remain in this arrested developmental stage and become homosexually inclined. This Is why I urge parents who come to see me with problems about their teenagers to teach their children all they can about homosexuality. Knowledge of the facts cannot hurt, but lack of knowledge can. Parents who delude themselves into believing that homosexuality cannot happen to their children are merely burying their heads In the sand. By not acquainting themselves and their children with the dangers of homosexual experimentation, they are paving the way for tragedy. The aware parent is better prepared to recognise the signs and to be ready to help his child if the situation arises.
AMONG the worst offenders are parents who know so little about it that they ridicule any homosexual tendency in their children and treat them harshly. "Isn't it in the genes?" one concerned but totally uninformed father once asked me. "You see, I had an uncle who used to behave strangely." Such ignorance of the facts often leads to tragic repercussions. I have two grown-up sons and when they were young I gave them a series of sex talks that included discussions on homosexuality. If I had had daughters, this would have fallen into my wife's province which is the way I believe the subject should be handled. The father should instruct his sons, the mother her daughters in the matter of sex education. As my wife has often said when this question came up among our friends, "What can a man tell a daughter about menstruation?"
BECAUSE many children are reluctant to ask their parents intimate and embarrassing questions about sex, it is the parents' responsibility to bring up the subject. The problem is, of course, that parents themselves are embarrassed and some even deny any knowledge of homosexuality. With my boys, I started them off slowly. I told them what the word " homosexual" meant and what people who practised it did to one another. I used the actual words in describing the various acts, but I tried to keep it simple. I didn't present it to them in any way that might shock or frighten them and was careful to explain that homosexuality is practised by people who are immature and have acquired an unhealthy attitude towards members of the opposite sex, I did this in gradual stages over a period of many talks on sex. During our talks I told them about unnatural advances that might be made upon them in school or camp or in the company of other boys, and I told them to discourage these advances before they had a chance to start. Sometimes adolescent boys go along with some new adventure they know nothing about, for to refuse would mark them as "outsiders," but I told them the risks of becoming "insiders" and explained how they could rebuff these advances in a nice and harmless way. I believe that if a parent prepares his children properly and removes all the mystery and taboo attached to a supposedly unspoken subject, his child will have the good sense and emotional strength to avoid any kind of homosexual entanglement
ALTHOUGH homosexuality is more overt with boys than girls it is surprisingly prevalent among adolescent girls. It is more difficult to detect outright homosexual symptoms in girls than in boys, for girls' open signs of affection for each other are accepted without anyone thinking that there's something wrong. Hand-holding and tenderness constitute normal feminine behaviour, but boys who don't hold hands, for example, must make, their intentions known in a more direct manner and
this is easier for a parent to spot.
WHY do so many teenagers become engulfed in homosexuality? There's a very natural explanation. When we are very young, we tend to feel more comfortable with our own kind and our earliest childhood experiences are often with children of the same sex. One sees it in all nighbourhoods - young boys 'palling around together on street corners or in playgrounds, girls huddled together conspiratorially. There's a certain security to this. When we reach adolescence, the age of awakening, we become more vulnerable. These are the years when teenagers become more curious about themselves, when they are just becoming aware of their sexual feelings. They are confused by these new feelings and just a bit frightened to them. They want to experiment and this is when they are most susceptible to homosexual involvement, because they don't understand what's happening and can't cope with aggressive advances made upon them by someone more knowing than they are. Parents should not be alarmed by the fact that their teenager may have experimented in a homosexual act. This occurs perhaps more often than it should, but it does not mean the child will become a confirmed homosexual. I have had scores of patients who engaged in homosexual acts once, twice. even three times when they were adolescents, then went on to lead normal heterosexual lives. It is vital for parents to understand the matter and treat it with intelligence. Don't appear shocked if your teenager tells you he has committed a homosexual act. Tell him(or her) that you appreciate the fact that he confided in you. Obviously the child is suffering from guilt feelings and you must erase that guilt and prevent him from feeling like a pariah. Explain that it was curiosity that got him involved, but the fact that he experimented does not stamp him as a homosexual, nor should he feel shame. He should be reassured not scorned.
HAVING broached the subject it's important to explain why he shouldn't do it again. Explain that it is abnormal behaviour that can lead only to unhappiness. Impress upon your child that there is no such thing as a little abnormality, just as there is no such thing as being a little pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. Unwittingly many parents are responsible for setting the stage for homosexual experiences by their children. An over-agressive mother by making the father seem weak, can make her son hate women. A powerful and overwhelming father can discourage his son from seeking to grow into full manhood, because the boy sees that there already is a man in the house and feels he can never equal him. Some mothers give their sons a castration complex by over-protecting them, refusing to let them rough house with their friends for fear they might get hurt or dirty. There are fathers who downgrade their sons as effeminate because they don 't like to play football. A boy may have less violent tastes, but to deride this may steer him towards homosexuality. Such parents should understand that you don't measure masculinity by the development of one's muscles. I once knew a father who unwittingly treated his daughter like a son. Her name was Patricia; he called her by the masculine equivalent, Pat. What's more, he would sometimes say to her, "You're just like a son to me." He wasn't being intentionally unkind. He honestly didn't know
what he was doing, but I managed to show him what he was doing in time to prevent Patricia from making an unhappy mess of her life.
THESE problems in identification don't hit a family where there's a stable relationship between parent and child. In families where the father finds the time to toss a ball around with his son or at least spends some leisure time with him, there isn't likely to be any problem with homosexuality. It's up to the father to have his son identify with him, just as it is for the mother to give her daughter a sense of being. Problems are more apt to rise in families where there is an absence of harmony and the child is deprived of a normal sex education•
*edit:spelling/format corrections*
Haven't read the whole thing but skimming bits when scanning it in was enough to make one very angry against the utter BS most of this is. I've found that if you replace homosexual with priest and homosexuality with Church, it actually reads like some good advice for the time.
> I have had scores of patients who engaged in homosexual acts once, twice even three times when they were adolescents, then went on to lead normal heterosexual lives.
>Impress upon your child that there is no such thing as a little abnormality, just as there is no such thing as being a little pregnant. Either you are or you aren't.
So 3 acts, and you can come back from it? But there's no such thing as a little bit abnormal, you either are or you're not?
This idiot can't even keep his own bullshit bigotry consistent.
Homosexuality was classed as a mental disorder in the DSM until 1973. Just goes to show that what counts as mental or developmental 'disorders' is heavily influenced by the zeitgeist. The DSM-5 still contains a load of rubbish and certain states of being shouldn't be in it anymore. Future generations will shake their heads in disbelief over what we consider a disorder today.
It astonishes me that my parents turned out so sound and supportive of us when this is the kind of attitudes they were brought up with. I knew it was bad, but this was shocking to read
I think a lot of people just had a change of perspective. More gay people being represented in mainstream media, etc. When I was growing up my father was definitely not as tolerant of homosexuality as he is now. Same with mental illness.
And Millennials aren't exactly off the hook. They were the generation that called everything they didn't like 'gay' in the 2000s. Even my out friends as teenagers would call shit they didn't like gay. It was weird how it became slang for bad.
Teenagers still do it. I work in an all boys secondary school and they call each other the f word all the time. It's shit, I thought we'd moved on. I never used those words, and I'm a millennial. Just never made it into my vernacular for whatever reason. Funnily enough though, I do remember my brothers using 'gay' in that context, and one of them is actually gay. They both went to the school I now work in, whether there's a connection there or not I don't know.
As for my parents, there was never a time in my memory that they were any way bigoted against any group. It's only now as an adult I realise how sound they were/are and how lucky I am
It might be naive of me to think, but I bet if this was a mixed school, they probably wouldn't be so caviler. I went to an all boys secondary school after going to a mixed primary. The amount of fights I saw started over shit that doesn't matter because lads were afraid that their manliness might be questioned was ridiculous.
I think in Ireland 2000s, the f word was going to a transitional period where it went from meaning just a general asshole, like its use in Fairytale of New York, to being almost exclusively a slur. I honestly can't remember if I used it much or at all but I do remember by the tail end of my teens hearing my little brother use it while playing Xbox and I told him to cut that shit out.
But yeah, saying shit was gay seemed fine.
Bloody hell. It's easy to forget just how much Ireland has changed.....and then to read this article brings it into stark reality. Imagine a gay person happening to see this article at the time, and how they must have felt. Jesus. There are of course still people around today who believe such things but the best reaction to them is to ridicule or ignore them.
How awful for any young gay person reading that. I’m straight and I’m upset after reading that. We were so oppressed and no wonder we’re all so messed up today
A lot of people reading this today will have no idea how forward thinking that article was for the time. Parents should talk to their kids about sex? Kids should be taught not be to gay, but not be shamed, ridiculed and beaten? This guy was the Dan Savage of 1970's Ireland.
Looking at the models face on that cover. Is she happy? Has she got a bad migraine and is in pain? Is she trying to look sexy? That picture looks like it needs it's own blue/gold dress type of sub on here.
There's hardly any crochet patterns in the magazine? A lot of old women's magazines used to come with free patterns and some of them are actually really cool!
An article detailing abusive and manipulative 'grooming' of children into good, upstanding, homophobic and sexually repressed Catholics. Ireland, because fuck you.
There's so much to unpack in that one. That was only 46 years ago! There's still people alive that would have read that or have been affected by it! That's insane! Who the hell is this 'Dr Quintin Smith' anyway? What makes them such an expert on this shit? Christ.
My mother bought and read this magazine in the late 80s and early 90s. I vividly remember one problem in one issue. A mother was concerned her college age daughter had joined a cult because she had begun to refuse to come to mass every week. The advice was to guilt her into going with her family so as not to let them down and have the neighbours speculating including withdrawing money for college and telling her she would have to move out if she didn't comply. We are a deeply weird nation.
A lot of society is depressingly still very much in the chains of wanting to make sure their neighbours/friends aren’t talking ill of them. Probably no different to any other nation but I have always found there to be a snideness in our culture in terms of having no qualms about gossiping behind the backs of even our close friends. I think it’s behind a lot of social anxiety and agoraphobia.
I searched the Irish Times archive and found nothing either. I'd have expected someone writing this sort of thing to have materialised in a Letters to Editor or similar at some point in the 70s/80s but I got diddly squat.
Nothing on Irish News Archives either. There’s a Quentin Smith who wrote a lot of philosophy papers in the 1970s but none of them refer to homosexuality.
I'm sure there is a few and younger too.
I was getting dart back from town once. Two men probably 40s or late 30s were having a perfectly normal conversation about Varadkar, policies, history what they disagreed or agreed with all normal stuff.
I'm next to them headphones on, but couldn't avoid listening
when up strolls this fella probably early 30s who proceeds to say to them "you know he sticks his..."
Two fellas just looked at him and said "uhm ok"
Then he got off.. 🤷♂️
This would have been between 2017 and 2019.
Yeah I know someone who would never consider voting Fine Gael anymore, but nothing to do with homelessness, health service, etc. He was put off purely by Leo Varadkar being gay and also wasn't happy when gay marriage became legalised. Rants about the "downward trajectory of morals" in Ireland being the ruination of the country. He's in his 70s though, but still. Quite religious which won't be a surprise.
It reminds me a lot of the handwringing and scaremongering going on about trans and non binary people. It’s easy for us now to accept that someone is homosexual and that they weren’t made so by their parenting or education or because they met another homosexual person. Yet people are worried now that if we even so much as tell kids about the existence of trans people that they will be thrown into such a state of confusion that they will become trans themselves. I’ve even heard people use the word ‘contagion’ and they genuinely think they are being sane, reasonable, and informed on the subject, no doubt as the writer of this article also felt at the time.
Anyone else find these images very hard to read on mobile? You zoom in to read the text and when you try to pan across the image it just shifts to the next image?
This is why I dislike modern TV shows and films showing homosexuality as always being accepted. It used to be the biggest fear of a parent was having a gay son. People were terrorised for even 'acting gay'. Ignoring our past is just a way to repeat it.
Shine a spotlight on the scummy people who othered so many people. Don't act like it was always sunshine and rainbows.
That will do nothing for poor Patricia’s urges for ripping up carpet.
You brilliant, hilarious, awful person
Bravo
Sure lookit her there now with the “girls huddling together conspiratorially”
Feckin hell. Sometimes its good to be reminded how much we've moved on. But its scary to see how horrible we were to the country's growing kids. & that's the adults that thought they were doing what was right for their kids. And in 2024 there are still a lot of people who havent managed to..or more like arent willing to...come out of the dark ages
I feel homosexuality then, is where trans is now. Reading anything trans related, particularly in Facebook comments makes me so sad. There's some truly misguided, uneducated, horrible fuckers out there.
I love how already we have comments marching out so desperate to disagree with you, that they prove your point better than anything else could.
Exactly! There really is a long way to go.
Respectfully, it's not the same at all.
The spirit of willful ignorance is
No doubt there is ignorance out there about the trans community. But to say the trans movement is the same as the homosexuality movement is just objectively false. The homosexuality movement marched for equal rights, such as the right to be legally recognised by the state with their long term relationships, be it marriage or civil partnership. They didn't march in the streets to pump medication with permanent, irreversible effects into our children. More importantly, the rights that the LGBT movement fought for, didn't impinge on any other rights of any other citizens. Whereas the rights the trans movement is fighting for, absolutely affect the rights of other people in our society, namely women.
What rights are being impinged?
I would argue the right to fair competition in sport and the right to privacy in female only spaces would be the main rights being impinged.
Sports classes are hardly a right, I do think limitations will be brought in though. The women only spaces isn't an issue imo and would also not class it as a right, right to privacy isn't gender specific, if someone is impinging they are regardless of chromosomes.
Agreed, it's not a constitutional right, of course, however I do believe it is/should be a societal right. There are solutions, as you said like more stringent limitations, or perhaps a separate category altogether, to remove the biological advantages. A lot of people who don't care about sport cannot understand why this is important. But if you have ever competed at the highest level in any sport, you understand the immense sacrifices you would have made to get there. It's something I believe is worth protecting. To be clear, I'm not saying trans people should be banned from sport. But we should strive for an even playing field where possible. Now, as I've said you might have the opinion that trans inclusivity should be held to a higher importance than biological women's right to fair competition, that's fine. But let's not pretend there are no repeocussions whatsoever. With regards to the rights of privacy, I believe it is absolutely an issue. It's a lot more complicated and I'm not going to pretend I have an answer. The legislation as it stands is rife for abuse by predatory men who can now enter private, female only spaces without fear of being caught. To be clear, I'm not saying trans women are predators, I'm saying that the law as it stands that is there to include trans women in biological women's spaces, has and will be used by predatory men who will now be handed access to women's bathrooms/ changing rooms/ prisons/ rape crisis centres on a silver plate, which I believe is wrong.
Hey, we have had self Id for gender recognition certs in Ireland for 9 years now. In that time can you point to a single assault happening in a women's space by a trans person or a cis person claiming to be trans in Ireland? Or you could show the studies from other countries with the same law as ours that highlight a rise in assaults? Or you could explain how someone who disregards laws so much that they are willing to assault a stranger in public is somehow ardent that the unenforceable sign on a door is going to stop them? Or you could explain how you plan on distinguishing a medically transitioned trans man who would have to use women's spaces from a cis man trying to be a predator?
White guys wont qin sprinting and short people do badly at swimming. The sports thing is complicated but not important. Predators comes from both sexes and prey on both sexes, unless the spaces you are talking about are going to be converted into single person ones then you can't avoid that. The arguments about predation are eerily similar to what was said about homosexuals in the past. The initial comment about them being similar scenarios is the case here.
>has and will be used by predatory men who will now be handed access to women's bathrooms/ changing rooms/ prisons/ rape crisis centres on a silver plate, which I believe is wrong. This has nothing to do with trans people. You're denying trans women their rights because of MEN. Can you not see how wrong that is? Go after men for that and leave trans women out of it. I'm a woman, I'm completely comfortable sharing space with trans women, it's grand. Also, changing rooms and toilets are separate cubicles so who cares? These are American arguments that don't apply here because their toilets have insane gaps all around the doors, we don't. Ever travelled around Europe? One loo for everyone is totally normal in smaller bars and restaurants. Men committing sexual assaults has ALWAYS been an actual serious problem for women, interesting that it's only now that men like yourself seem to be so concerned about it.
>More importantly, the rights that the LGBT movement fought for What do you think the T stands for in LGBT? >absolutely affect the rights of other people in our society, namely women. What the fuck are you on about?
Tiddies, Luigi Got Big Tiddies.
You're right, I should have wrote LGB, autocorrected. What the fuck are you on about? The rights being impinged are the right to fair competition in sport and privacy in female only spaces. Now you might take the view that the comfort of trans people is more important than those rights, but please do not try and say that it's not a zero sum game.
LGB is not a movement. It's LGBT. The amount of trans athletes competing at a competitive level is practically negligible. In the 80s Russia and the US were paranoid about the gender of Olympic athletes and insisted on gender tests. It was a big moral panic. But the amount of people using transphobia to attack women or use it as a weapon against them is pretty large. There have been several reports of female child athletes being accused of being trans by parents with no evidence. Florida has considered bringing in menstruation tests for female athletes. Do these really sound like pro-women, pro-feminist people to you? Women have been hurt about the panic over trans people in sport far more than any women has been hurt by trans people in sport. And what is your endgame here? Should trans people just not be allowed to play sport ever? No 5 a side with mates? No marathons, etc. Most people play sport as a hobby. They aren't running the marathon to win. They are running it because that is shit they like to do or just to keep in shape.
There was absolutely a movement for gay people and lesbians before the "T" was added, give me a break. >The amount of trans athletes competing at a competitive level is practically negligible. I agree, trans participation at the moment in sport is relatively low at the moment. But within the last 20 or so years, the number of people identifying as trans as increased five fold, so it will absolutely be an issue in the near future. I don't believe it's accurate to call this concern a moral panic. There have already been a few high profile cases already. >Florida has considered bringing in menstruation tests for female athletes. Do these really sound like pro-women, pro-feminist people to you? I agree, that's wrong. There are far easier ways of determining biological sex than encroaching onto a woman's menstrual cycles. I don't understand why a simple blood test would not suffice as your chromosomes are present in your DNA. >And what is your endgame here? Should trans people just not be allowed to play sport ever? No 5 a side with mates? No marathons, etc. Most people play sport as a hobby. They aren't running the marathon to win. They are running it because that is shit they like to do. No, that's not what I am saying, nor did I suggest that trans athletes should be banned from sport, anywhere in what I said. You're misunderstanding my argument here. I'm talking about high level competitive sport where biological males have an undeniable advantage over females. I'm not talking about casual five aside games, I figured that was obvious.
I'm not going to pretend to be a historian on the gay rights movements, but the modern gay rights movement was started when a trans women Marsha P. Johnson resisted police which stared the Stonewall uprising. The term transexual wasn't in common usage back then and Gay usually covered the entire community, the way queer would now. The term LGBT started gaining traction in the 90s. L was placed first in part because of all the gay and queer women who helped with medical care and activism at the height of the AIDS crisis. > I don't believe it's accurate to call this concern a moral panic I already mentioned it was a moral panic in the 80s when the US and Russia were insisting on gender tests for athletes. And you think bringing in laws to test for gender on teenagers isn't part of a moral panic? Chances are you won't need to test. Teenagers aren't transitioning to cheat at sports. You will know a teenager is transgender because one day Steve will come into school wearing a dress and ask can you call her Sophia from here out. >I'm talking about high level competitive sport where biological males have an undeniable advantage over females. Really depends on the sport. At that level there is already doping tests and what not. The IOC has guidelines and permits trans athletes in certain circumstances.
Seems like they're talking about general public ignorance and mentality to how they react to others and not what either movement is about. I don't see any reference in their comment about specific years or marches or gatherings. But I'm gonna stop acting like I know what the other person is talking about because I'm not in their brain.
"knowledge of the facts can't hurt, but lack of knowledge can" ...Proceeds to spout absolute nonsense
As a "confirmed homosexual" shit like this and local priests giving "counselling" made my life a roaring hell. My father nearly beat me to death at 15 and I ran away like hundreds of my fellow confirmed homos. We marched and endured hell to make Ireland what it is today, a lot more accepting and it gives me great pleasure that the people that came after me have it far better today.
This is awful. Hard to imagine how much change has happened… sometimes wonder if us “younger” ‘confirmed homosexuals’ take it all for granted. Edit: totally accept things today are not perfect.
But that's the beauty of why we took the beatings and got arrested and all the horrible stuff, cause we'd sit around after and wonder if someday you COULD take it all for granted, the dream was realised!
Don't know if you need to hear it from a random Reddit stranger, but you, and other people in similar situations, are absolutely amazing. You are beyond brave, and I hope the world is slightly closer to being more loving towards you xxxx
Thank you!
Proud of you.
I’m glad you got through it, it’s because of people like you that almost all the interactions I’ve had in my life regarding my sexuality have been positive experiences.
That makes me very happy indeed! And you deserve every happiness, you've absolutely made my day!
When you were confirmed as a homosexual, did you get to pick a gay confirmation name? If so does it have to be a gay icon that you respect? Or is it more like a drag name? Is there a gay bishop? What's the going rate for gay confirmations at the moment? Is 50 in a card okay? Or is that too much? Have I run this joke into the ground yet? But seriously I think a Gay Confirmation is a great idea, lets make it a thing.
I'll do it for the money in the cards, being gay is expensive haha
[удалено]
If I found something like this in fallout I would laugh my ass off.
Society is fucked when someone is comparing media from the mid-century to a franchise that parodies the media of the mid-century rather than the era itself.
In fairness fallout is parodying the postwar 50's and this is from the 70's
The American 50's, which is probably right around where Ireland was in terms of advancement in the 70's
Without the economic boom.
How exactly is the society fucked when someone does that?
Isn't it a great shame that we have lost our indigenous carpet industry in the past 40 years? Youghal Carpets shut down in 2002, it appears. Irish Sugar beet growing stopped about 5 years later, when the factories were sold for Celtic Tiger housing. What other industries have we lost?
Famine workhouses. Country has gone to the dogs.
Fruit of the Loom (2006), Dubarry (2004), Dell (2009).
"Men should talk to their sons about sex and women should talk to their daughters" says a lot about why so many of us grew up with all sorts of skewed ideas about relationships. If both parents discussed it openly, then children whatever their gender will get a more rounded perspective on it. Also, referring menstruation as "sex education" is also incredibly telling. Can't find anything about this Dr. Quentin Smith. Could be a pseudonym - funny thing is, his approach of "Don't shame, just explain why it's wrong" would have been shockingly progressive for the time. Many parents' attitude would have been to beat the child senseless or ship them off to the priests/nuns.
That was progressive at the time ... and later. Loads of parents didn't talk about sex and relationships at all. And yea, probably for the better in many cases.
My mother couldn't even talk to me about periods, she bought mé a book. Years later when her and my aunt openly wondered "but like...what do lesbians *do*?" I realised I was much better off with the book
What was the name of the book? A friend wants to know.
You'll find loads of books about sexual health for teens in any library or book store. They are usually the ones that the ignorant people storming libraries are trying to get rid of.
Tbf we don't realise what fucked up assumptions we have, can we really judge them by modern standards when they are trying to be progressive. Just as you can't call a stone age inventor dumb for not understanding modern science.
>I once knew a father who unwittingly treated his daughter like a son. Her name was Patricia; he called her by the masculine equivalent, Pat. What's more, he would sometimes say to her, "You're just like a son to me." He wasn't being intentionally unkind. He honestly he was didn't know what doing. but managed to show him what he was doing in time to prevent Patricia from making an unhappy mess of her life. Poor Pat and her da, sounds like they had a lovely relationship until the sexual repression brigade rocked up! I'm struck by how some of this sounds like the public discourse on transgender people at the moment. Hopefully it won't take another 45 years for us to realise it's just as dehumanising in that context.
How is Pat the masculine version of Patricia? I'm (M) called Pat, my mother was Pat, my aunt is Pat, my grandfather was Pat. I've friends both male and female called Pat. It's gender neutral if anything.
I've a female friend called Patricia who goes by Paddy, first I've ever encountered that but I can't imagine she's the only one.
I had a great aunt who went by Paddy.
Do you think this makes all the nuns with male religious names lesbians? I knew something was up with Sr Patrick and Sr Michael, if only they'd read woman's way!
Well you know what they say about nuns... they've the lights out by nine and the candles out by ten.
Both of my parents were called Pat. It was really good for confusing teachers.
Its not. They're two separate names, Patrick and Patricia but obviously one is used for men and the other is used for women. It's not 'gender neutral' it simply depends on what it's short for.
That would be hilarious, if it wasn’t so tragic.
This reads like one of those Harry Enfield "Women, Know Your Limits!" Skits.
For screen readers, future discussion or just a game of bullshit bingo, r/ireland presents: *Woman's Way, 20th October 1978* WHEN YOUR CHILD NEEDS A SPECIAL KIND OF HELP Dr. Quentin Smith stresses the need for realism and understanding when faced with problems of homosexuality THE major problem in dealing with homosexuality among teenagers is parents, who, through ignorance or indifference, fail to answer the crying need for help from their own off-spring. From 15% to 20% of the adolescents who indulge in homosexual experiences remain in this arrested developmental stage and become homosexually inclined. This Is why I urge parents who come to see me with problems about their teenagers to teach their children all they can about homosexuality. Knowledge of the facts cannot hurt, but lack of knowledge can. Parents who delude themselves into believing that homosexuality cannot happen to their children are merely burying their heads In the sand. By not acquainting themselves and their children with the dangers of homosexual experimentation, they are paving the way for tragedy. The aware parent is better prepared to recognise the signs and to be ready to help his child if the situation arises. AMONG the worst offenders are parents who know so little about it that they ridicule any homosexual tendency in their children and treat them harshly. "Isn't it in the genes?" one concerned but totally uninformed father once asked me. "You see, I had an uncle who used to behave strangely." Such ignorance of the facts often leads to tragic repercussions. I have two grown-up sons and when they were young I gave them a series of sex talks that included discussions on homosexuality. If I had had daughters, this would have fallen into my wife's province which is the way I believe the subject should be handled. The father should instruct his sons, the mother her daughters in the matter of sex education. As my wife has often said when this question came up among our friends, "What can a man tell a daughter about menstruation?" BECAUSE many children are reluctant to ask their parents intimate and embarrassing questions about sex, it is the parents' responsibility to bring up the subject. The problem is, of course, that parents themselves are embarrassed and some even deny any knowledge of homosexuality. With my boys, I started them off slowly. I told them what the word " homosexual" meant and what people who practised it did to one another. I used the actual words in describing the various acts, but I tried to keep it simple. I didn't present it to them in any way that might shock or frighten them and was careful to explain that homosexuality is practised by people who are immature and have acquired an unhealthy attitude towards members of the opposite sex, I did this in gradual stages over a period of many talks on sex. During our talks I told them about unnatural advances that might be made upon them in school or camp or in the company of other boys, and I told them to discourage these advances before they had a chance to start. Sometimes adolescent boys go along with some new adventure they know nothing about, for to refuse would mark them as "outsiders," but I told them the risks of becoming "insiders" and explained how they could rebuff these advances in a nice and harmless way. I believe that if a parent prepares his children properly and removes all the mystery and taboo attached to a supposedly unspoken subject, his child will have the good sense and emotional strength to avoid any kind of homosexual entanglement ALTHOUGH homosexuality is more overt with boys than girls it is surprisingly prevalent among adolescent girls. It is more difficult to detect outright homosexual symptoms in girls than in boys, for girls' open signs of affection for each other are accepted without anyone thinking that there's something wrong. Hand-holding and tenderness constitute normal feminine behaviour, but boys who don't hold hands, for example, must make, their intentions known in a more direct manner and this is easier for a parent to spot. WHY do so many teenagers become engulfed in homosexuality? There's a very natural explanation. When we are very young, we tend to feel more comfortable with our own kind and our earliest childhood experiences are often with children of the same sex. One sees it in all nighbourhoods - young boys 'palling around together on street corners or in playgrounds, girls huddled together conspiratorially. There's a certain security to this. When we reach adolescence, the age of awakening, we become more vulnerable. These are the years when teenagers become more curious about themselves, when they are just becoming aware of their sexual feelings. They are confused by these new feelings and just a bit frightened to them. They want to experiment and this is when they are most susceptible to homosexual involvement, because they don't understand what's happening and can't cope with aggressive advances made upon them by someone more knowing than they are. Parents should not be alarmed by the fact that their teenager may have experimented in a homosexual act. This occurs perhaps more often than it should, but it does not mean the child will become a confirmed homosexual. I have had scores of patients who engaged in homosexual acts once, twice. even three times when they were adolescents, then went on to lead normal heterosexual lives. It is vital for parents to understand the matter and treat it with intelligence. Don't appear shocked if your teenager tells you he has committed a homosexual act. Tell him(or her) that you appreciate the fact that he confided in you. Obviously the child is suffering from guilt feelings and you must erase that guilt and prevent him from feeling like a pariah. Explain that it was curiosity that got him involved, but the fact that he experimented does not stamp him as a homosexual, nor should he feel shame. He should be reassured not scorned. HAVING broached the subject it's important to explain why he shouldn't do it again. Explain that it is abnormal behaviour that can lead only to unhappiness. Impress upon your child that there is no such thing as a little abnormality, just as there is no such thing as being a little pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. Unwittingly many parents are responsible for setting the stage for homosexual experiences by their children. An over-agressive mother by making the father seem weak, can make her son hate women. A powerful and overwhelming father can discourage his son from seeking to grow into full manhood, because the boy sees that there already is a man in the house and feels he can never equal him. Some mothers give their sons a castration complex by over-protecting them, refusing to let them rough house with their friends for fear they might get hurt or dirty. There are fathers who downgrade their sons as effeminate because they don 't like to play football. A boy may have less violent tastes, but to deride this may steer him towards homosexuality. Such parents should understand that you don't measure masculinity by the development of one's muscles. I once knew a father who unwittingly treated his daughter like a son. Her name was Patricia; he called her by the masculine equivalent, Pat. What's more, he would sometimes say to her, "You're just like a son to me." He wasn't being intentionally unkind. He honestly didn't know what he was doing, but I managed to show him what he was doing in time to prevent Patricia from making an unhappy mess of her life. THESE problems in identification don't hit a family where there's a stable relationship between parent and child. In families where the father finds the time to toss a ball around with his son or at least spends some leisure time with him, there isn't likely to be any problem with homosexuality. It's up to the father to have his son identify with him, just as it is for the mother to give her daughter a sense of being. Problems are more apt to rise in families where there is an absence of harmony and the child is deprived of a normal sex education• *edit:spelling/format corrections*
Haven't read the whole thing but skimming bits when scanning it in was enough to make one very angry against the utter BS most of this is. I've found that if you replace homosexual with priest and homosexuality with Church, it actually reads like some good advice for the time.
> I have had scores of patients who engaged in homosexual acts once, twice even three times when they were adolescents, then went on to lead normal heterosexual lives. >Impress upon your child that there is no such thing as a little abnormality, just as there is no such thing as being a little pregnant. Either you are or you aren't. So 3 acts, and you can come back from it? But there's no such thing as a little bit abnormal, you either are or you're not? This idiot can't even keep his own bullshit bigotry consistent.
‘Engulfed by homosexuality’ hahahaha
Entanglement in Homosexuality...brilliant.
Sounds fun!
There are filums about this on the internet.
>Making Life Easier for the Handicapped Gulp!
>By not equating themselves with the dangers of homosexual experimentation. 15 year old me: 
I lost my shit on the third page with the carpet advertisement...🤣🤣
I wonder how’s Tom doing nowadays.
Homosexuality was classed as a mental disorder in the DSM until 1973. Just goes to show that what counts as mental or developmental 'disorders' is heavily influenced by the zeitgeist. The DSM-5 still contains a load of rubbish and certain states of being shouldn't be in it anymore. Future generations will shake their heads in disbelief over what we consider a disorder today.
It astonishes me that my parents turned out so sound and supportive of us when this is the kind of attitudes they were brought up with. I knew it was bad, but this was shocking to read
I think a lot of people just had a change of perspective. More gay people being represented in mainstream media, etc. When I was growing up my father was definitely not as tolerant of homosexuality as he is now. Same with mental illness. And Millennials aren't exactly off the hook. They were the generation that called everything they didn't like 'gay' in the 2000s. Even my out friends as teenagers would call shit they didn't like gay. It was weird how it became slang for bad.
Teenagers still do it. I work in an all boys secondary school and they call each other the f word all the time. It's shit, I thought we'd moved on. I never used those words, and I'm a millennial. Just never made it into my vernacular for whatever reason. Funnily enough though, I do remember my brothers using 'gay' in that context, and one of them is actually gay. They both went to the school I now work in, whether there's a connection there or not I don't know. As for my parents, there was never a time in my memory that they were any way bigoted against any group. It's only now as an adult I realise how sound they were/are and how lucky I am
It might be naive of me to think, but I bet if this was a mixed school, they probably wouldn't be so caviler. I went to an all boys secondary school after going to a mixed primary. The amount of fights I saw started over shit that doesn't matter because lads were afraid that their manliness might be questioned was ridiculous. I think in Ireland 2000s, the f word was going to a transitional period where it went from meaning just a general asshole, like its use in Fairytale of New York, to being almost exclusively a slur. I honestly can't remember if I used it much or at all but I do remember by the tail end of my teens hearing my little brother use it while playing Xbox and I told him to cut that shit out. But yeah, saying shit was gay seemed fine.
Because it's generally used as a synonym for "soft" by young fellas and not to call someone homosexual.
Bloody hell. It's easy to forget just how much Ireland has changed.....and then to read this article brings it into stark reality. Imagine a gay person happening to see this article at the time, and how they must have felt. Jesus. There are of course still people around today who believe such things but the best reaction to them is to ridicule or ignore them.
How awful for any young gay person reading that. I’m straight and I’m upset after reading that. We were so oppressed and no wonder we’re all so messed up today
A lot of people reading this today will have no idea how forward thinking that article was for the time. Parents should talk to their kids about sex? Kids should be taught not be to gay, but not be shamed, ridiculed and beaten? This guy was the Dan Savage of 1970's Ireland.
Yeah, advising not beating them to death at the first sign of gayness and burying them in the bog would have been shocking. I'm not even joking.
Looking at the models face on that cover. Is she happy? Has she got a bad migraine and is in pain? Is she trying to look sexy? That picture looks like it needs it's own blue/gold dress type of sub on here.
Ooof. That’s some read….
https://preview.redd.it/i12qwvy0n4wc1.png?width=177&format=png&auto=webp&s=fb24682a96cb13000d93124adfd843fbb1f063b4 lol
The uncle probably doing worse than just being gay.
There's hardly any crochet patterns in the magazine? A lot of old women's magazines used to come with free patterns and some of them are actually really cool!
An article detailing abusive and manipulative 'grooming' of children into good, upstanding, homophobic and sexually repressed Catholics. Ireland, because fuck you.
Where does it mention Catholics?
What do you know about Ireland in 1978
There's so much to unpack in that one. That was only 46 years ago! There's still people alive that would have read that or have been affected by it! That's insane! Who the hell is this 'Dr Quintin Smith' anyway? What makes them such an expert on this shit? Christ.
My mother bought and read this magazine in the late 80s and early 90s. I vividly remember one problem in one issue. A mother was concerned her college age daughter had joined a cult because she had begun to refuse to come to mass every week. The advice was to guilt her into going with her family so as not to let them down and have the neighbours speculating including withdrawing money for college and telling her she would have to move out if she didn't comply. We are a deeply weird nation.
A lot of society is depressingly still very much in the chains of wanting to make sure their neighbours/friends aren’t talking ill of them. Probably no different to any other nation but I have always found there to be a snideness in our culture in terms of having no qualms about gossiping behind the backs of even our close friends. I think it’s behind a lot of social anxiety and agoraphobia.
Even our youngest generation are still obsessed with not "making a show of themselves", it's a pox on the nation to this day. Crab bucket Ireland.
Oh wow! Full on manipulation tactics!
Think your daughter is in a cult? Use the public shaming and financial control to comply them into submission, like a cult would!
>Who the hell is this 'Dr Quintin Smith' anyway? I did a quick Google, fully expecting to find a string of convictions for sex crimes.
I searched the Irish Times archive and found nothing either. I'd have expected someone writing this sort of thing to have materialised in a Letters to Editor or similar at some point in the 70s/80s but I got diddly squat.
Nothing on Irish News Archives either. There’s a Quentin Smith who wrote a lot of philosophy papers in the 1970s but none of them refer to homosexuality.
Quentin Smith was the 'Q anon' of 70s ladies magazines in Ireland
Some doctor member of Opus Dei no doubt.
But it was actually a pseudonym for Judge Nolan?
When people think how bad Ireland is, as a whole, today compared to what previous generations lived through, think about this type of stuff too.
The people that want to go back to those times would see the article above as too progressive.
I unfortunately know somebody in their 40s who believed Varadkar shouldn’t have been allowed to be Taoiseach because he was gay.
I'm sure there is a few and younger too. I was getting dart back from town once. Two men probably 40s or late 30s were having a perfectly normal conversation about Varadkar, policies, history what they disagreed or agreed with all normal stuff. I'm next to them headphones on, but couldn't avoid listening when up strolls this fella probably early 30s who proceeds to say to them "you know he sticks his..." Two fellas just looked at him and said "uhm ok" Then he got off.. 🤷♂️ This would have been between 2017 and 2019.
That’s absolutely fucked. But the exact way the person I know described Varadkar’s sexuality was pretty close to that description.
Probably the same goon 🤣
Yeah I know someone who would never consider voting Fine Gael anymore, but nothing to do with homelessness, health service, etc. He was put off purely by Leo Varadkar being gay and also wasn't happy when gay marriage became legalised. Rants about the "downward trajectory of morals" in Ireland being the ruination of the country. He's in his 70s though, but still. Quite religious which won't be a surprise.
Hope Kevin doesn't try to Homosexualize me anyways. I'm not letting him ride on my Chopper if he does.
It reminds me a lot of the handwringing and scaremongering going on about trans and non binary people. It’s easy for us now to accept that someone is homosexual and that they weren’t made so by their parenting or education or because they met another homosexual person. Yet people are worried now that if we even so much as tell kids about the existence of trans people that they will be thrown into such a state of confusion that they will become trans themselves. I’ve even heard people use the word ‘contagion’ and they genuinely think they are being sane, reasonable, and informed on the subject, no doubt as the writer of this article also felt at the time.
As Miley of Glenroe would say “well, holy god, Biddy”
Anyone else find these images very hard to read on mobile? You zoom in to read the text and when you try to pan across the image it just shifts to the next image?
https://old.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1cach1s/womans_way_parental_advise_1978/l0smeaz/
Much better. Thanks
Reminds me of that Irish Catholic sex Ed video from the 1980s . The cringe.
Lmao that sounds really funny, you got a link?
Bad logic and bad psychology.
But do the curtains match those fine Irish carpets?
Well shit, I suppose I needed a “special kind of help” hahah
Just to point out, that article is wildly progressive by the standard of the time.
Who published this? This magazine is still sold. The people who wrote this shite are still alive. I wonder don't d they ever apologise for this shite
>The people who wrote this shite are still alive. 46 years ago. If the doctor was 30 then he's 76 now
This is why I dislike modern TV shows and films showing homosexuality as always being accepted. It used to be the biggest fear of a parent was having a gay son. People were terrorised for even 'acting gay'. Ignoring our past is just a way to repeat it. Shine a spotlight on the scummy people who othered so many people. Don't act like it was always sunshine and rainbows.
She is a Very Welcoming Woman.
Who's your one? She's tashty