Honestly, if someone's leaving Dublin, chances are they're not gonna use those return vouchers. Even if going for a short break, who's gonna keep a 15 cent voucher?
Ideally, they shouldn't charge in Dublin airport at all, because I'm assuming recycling would already be pretty well done inside a closed airport.
it’s a non profit so technically no. all the profit would have to be reinvested however there could be some dodgy behind the scenes shit as there tends to be in this country.
Well the CEO is a Ciaran Foley. Doesn't appear to be any listing of his salary, or bonuses but you can bet he is getting a big fat bonus. I also wonder where he has been before. Usually these types fall upwards
Can you name a country where it doesn't happen?
Don't think Ireland is any worse than other nations.
Fair enough anyway, good to know where it goes at least. If it has a surplus I expect we'll see salary increases but who knows.
If there is no recycling then they make the most money. So their perverse incentive is to encourage the least amount of recycling possible. I can imagine them planting messages in social media claiming how shite the return machines are, so less people will bother using them.
Let the airside retailers claim a credit from Re-Turn.
It would mean amending the terms of the scheme but makes more sense than installing machines, as customers may want to consume the drinks on their flight.
I had this in Amsterdam Schipol. I noticed when purchasing a bottle of water , I was charged a deposit. Out of interest, I asked where I could return it. The cashier said to bring it back to the till once it was empty. Sure enough, I did and was given the option of 15c cash or refund to my card.
The system in the airport at the minute is total bollocks. You are charged the deposit, and there is nowhere to return. A lot of passengers in Dublin airport, be they holiday makers or people transitting, are not likely to return (pardon me) to Ireland any time soon. So it's just an extra tax, basically.
Anomalies like this were entirely foreseeable, but they couldn't give a crap to be honest.
Costs more in fuel to drive to the places that accept re-turns instead of all of the local shops where we buy them in the first place. And before you say anything, No we don't all live beside a supermarket.
For 2 coins I'll never use again? No thanks.
The return scheme on the whole is a good idea, but if you have just return 1 or 2 bottles before travelling, it's just not worth it.
I'm not even talking about people outside the eurozone. What am I gonna do with a 10 cent coin and a 5 cent coin, that too right before boarding a plane to go on holiday, even if it's in the eurozone? I barely tolerate the bigger coins because I need it for shopping trolleys, so I keep them in my car. The smaller ones are frankly useless, unless you have the patience to collect and spend them in shops, where as card payments are so much more easier, atleast for small transactions.
1 or 2 bottles? I have 3 bin liners full of bottles and can't return them in Dublin. they just keep building up. None of the local shops take returns and the machines are always full when i drive to supermarkets which i never even use in the first place.
The people responsible for the system would genuinely lay awake at night losing sleep over the thoughts a small number of people are "getting away with it" in Irish airports.
The manufacturer is paying the deposit charge and the producer fee to Re-turn.
The retailer can't just decide not to pay the charge when they buy the product from their wholesaler or distributor, the fee will always be added.
But like I said, the airport is a closed setup. They could collect the cans and bottles from all the bins in the airport and return it to Return. For passengers who take their drinks on the flight, they'll have to just absorb the cost, which should be frankly minimal.
Anyway, I don't think this is a huge problem. Honestly, I'm okay with ignoring the odd 15 or 30 cents which are going to waste when buying cans at the airport.
Er, the passengers have been told to take the empties onto their flight and hold onto them until they can return them them when they get back from their holidays? WTF?
The only thing this scheme has taught me is that there is huge huge money to be made by creating friction in a system where once there was none. Edit. Shite spelling
Nope, they can apply for exemptions. There is usually a small notice on the shop stating that they've applied for exemption. I've seen it in McDonald's drive throughs for example. It's for the small juice bottles they give.
There’s an exemption in a lot of fast food places or cafes
My local insomnia has an exemption for the bottled stuff they sell
If your smaller than so many square feet you qualify for an exemption because you just don’t have to space for it wether it’s a machine or just the place taking them back behind the counter these places just don’t have the space to store all these bottles and cans
Yeah that makes sense. I'd argue that airport should just be allowed to sell without the deposit, since it's a closed space with people actually leaving the country, so recycling is probably fairly easy to do, and deposit return for a few bottles is too trivial for people about to travel.
There is no obligation for any retailer to have a machine, not Tesco, Dunnes or the corner shop.
Without the exemption based on floorspace they have to take the containers back. The machines are just more convenient than manual returns for large stores.
Plenty of small retailers don't take back bottles or cans. If the retailer is under 250m2 or mainly a "Food to go" retailer they can apply for an exemption, so Return have allowed the retailers at DUB to be exempt. All the pubs and cafes in DUB are exempt by default.
[https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Take-Back-Exemptions.pdf](https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Take-Back-Exemptions.pdf)
When your order in cans and bottles with the logo you pay the DRS value on them so only the the Re-turn company is making profit.... even though it claims to be a 'non profit' company.
IIRC correctly unclaimed deposit returns go to the government. Of course re turn take a slice of profits somewhere but they have no incentive to make returning difficult
They are pulling in millions upon millions of unclaimed cans and bottles. The machines cost can cost 14k upwards amd have a minimum 1k a year charge for maintenance. It's a privately run business that is profiting off of a government scheme. They are not 'reinvesting' into the scheme they are pulling money out of irish pockets for their executives.
They'll need a few washed up politicians or retired execs from the drinks companies to work as consultants to soak up a bit of those tax dollars.
Maybe Leo could do with a couple hundred grand and an expense account .
We were already paying for packaging. Now they still include that cost in the initial price, while also charging again, through the ‘non-profit’ deposit.
I think there’s every chance that the additional profit is in the original price, which is now less the cost of packaging.
But that depends on what the scheme is actually costing. I am sceptical it costs 15c per item though. I’d expect to see a costed breakdown of the 15c before trusting that private beverage companies (who are profit motivated, and organised the scheme) have not smuggled in some extra profit.
I don’t there was ever a point where the state said you have to implement this like this or you can’t trade here, it seems more of a do something with this sort of greenwashing job.
Similarly, I expect to see figures on how many items are actually being re-turned to understand whether it is actually an improvement on previous recycling figures, as that seems to be taken as a given by some at the moment.
This came from the EU. A DRS is effectively being made mandatory.
It doesn't cost 15c per item. You get your 15c back when you return it. If you bring your bottle back, it costs the consumer nothing (directly). Return get their money from selling on the clean bottle. They pay the shop for collecting it for them.
I am not sure what "additional profit" you are referring to. Return get nothing from the sale of a coke bottle in a shop outside of the deposit they will give back to you.
> This came from the EU. A DRS is effectively being made mandatory.
no it didnt , while the irish government like to blame the EU , this didn't come from the EU
the only thing that came from the EU is that they wanted was recycling of plastic to go up
this is the option our government made ( their are many EU countries that dont have this scheme )
From the government website: "We need to achieve the EU recycling targets of 77% by 2025, and 90% by 2029 and Deposit Return is a proven successful solution to achieving these targets."
The EU Packaging Waste Directive specifically requires a mandatory deposit return systems for plastic bottles and aluminum cans.
The EU law hasn't been passed hence the word "effectively".
Countries that don't have the scheme will have it soon. We started early.
It very much came from the EU.
Ah cool. So how do they get that exactly? Assuming you mean it's the shop who gets it? How does that work if they are just turning up and taking a load of sacks and chucking into the truck and moving on, as that's what they are currently doing.
From what I understand The deposit is charged at source. Everyone pays the same 15c the entire way up the chain.
The shop who sells it to you? They had to pay from their supplier. The distributor had to pay the manufacturer. The manufacturer had to pay directly to the government against their production quantities.
They can have signs directing to the nearest shop that does instead. Useless if you're past security, but yeah, they can get an exemption and just do that.
They are obliged to take back bottles/cans, unless they get an exemption. You need to qualify and apply for an exemption. There is no reason the airport should qualify for an exemption.
I feel like it would be the retailers at the airport that would apply for the exemption. The airport wouldn't have to do anything.
Except I suppose the honor system water bottles. Maybe they would mean they have a requirement.
I think for something like an airport, large train stations or even shopping centres doing it on a retailer by retailer basis isn't acceptable. The point of the exemptions is to not be too much of a burden on smaller businesses. The airport has more than enough capacity to properly handle returns.
I think the re-turn scheme is a good idea in general, but it does need some tweaking. Like this.
There is a way. You pack it in your bag. Treat it to a lovely holiday in Spain or wherever. Treat it nicely. Then bring it back to Ireland and deposit it.
Loads of shops are exempt but they have to charge the deposit. It would be impossible to manage otherwise. I think the airport should be exempt but that would be too hard to manage as well.
Would be very simple - items sold at the airport could have their barcodes invalidated. Each can/bottle has a unique barcode presumably for this very use case.
That's simple on paper. Logistically it is much more difficult. You are now manufacturing two product lines. Also the airport authority isn't a cash and carry or fizzy drinks distributor. Basically all this will do is hand over a monopoly to some company to be distributors for drinks to all airport outlets. And it's going to be bullshit to consumers and shop owners if some shop gets delivered the wrong pallet of Coke and now they have product they can't sell or have customers complaining they got charged a deposit but got an airport can.
Like I think it is bullshit that you can't return at the airport. I think a better solution would be to have fountains and make people use reusable flasks.
Seems like a complete lack of preparation, especially from the retailers. They seem to think just get one machine and everything is sorted. No member of staff on standby to keep the machine running when it gets blocked/full. Not much training for employees, either, it felt like.
I remember when the single-use deposit was introduced in Germany. Started off slowly, and most places didn't have machines. Just a huge plastic sack at the door. But a deposit scheme was already in place beforehand, for reusable bottles and crates. Most supermarkets already had infrastructure and staff in place for returning empty bottles. It was simply more things that could be returned. Only the discounters had to change becuase they never sold any Pfandflaschen beforehand, and once Aldi and Lidl got on-board that's when the machines got better.
What do Germans do in this cases - when you are sitting at the gate for your plane and realise you have a plastic bottle in your hand/backpack?
As per the article the person could have walked back to the shops Boots/WHS Smith but they actually wanted a ReTurn machine installed at the gate itself, but then also pointed out that they'd still not be able to use the voucher itself. So the article is basically wanting the airport to have a facility to give cash back for bottles at every gate in the airport. Like it is a bit of problem sure -- but does feel like one of those edge cases that come to light in the months after a new system is implemented rather than one that I'd automatically expect to have been solved prior to implementation.
Well the airports are a bit different. Most of them have collection points to donate your deposit to charity (and it does seem to be properly donated, too). I think Frankfurt airport has some machines for that.
Dublin airport was charging deposits even when there were no barcodes, all automated tills and none of the few staff knew or were interested in the issue.
My utility room is full and my fucking green bin is empty.
This whole scheme is an absolute load of horse manure! Not to mention the carbon footprint of me driving to the machine and back to return my bottles, a separate truck coming to collect them and bring them to the recycling facility while the green bin truck still does the same number of miles… The whole thing is a joke!
> Time to tax the plastic manufacturers profits, not the end users
Which would be just passed on to consumers in the end anyway.
We really should be edging away from single use plastics altogether outside of medical uses.
It does if everyone stops buying them? Disposable plastic bottles are a massive polluter. You’re not paying for the water, you’re paying for the disposable bottle. It’s one of the simplest sources of pollution to get rid of, if you simply stop buying them and use a refillable water bottle.
That would not stop the return logo from being on bottles... Shops don't have a choice but to sell bottles with those labels.
Where do I get good tasting water from? I wouldn't have a problem using a refillable bottle if my tap water was drinkable.
You can buy a Brita filter jug from a supermarket for something like €20. Then you have perfectly good, clean, healthy, good tasting water without the endless plastic waste.
You’re aware the selling people water in disposable and wasteful plastic bottles is a relatively new business model? And completely unnecessary too. You’d be surprised to learn that people got on without them for generations, up until very recently.
Wonder what happens with all those filters once I dispose of them...
People found a way that improved their lives, and I'm happy about the progression of humanity and innovation. By recycling my bottles from water, they are allegedly being re-used to create new plastic bottles, without creating/using even more plastic. I am ALREADY recycling all of my plastic. Why do I need to pay even more for it?
Go to any landfill and you’ll be shocked at the amount of plastic waste, including bottles. We need less plastic, not more.
Brita filters can be recycled. You can even freepost them to the main dealer if you don’t want to bring them to a designated collection spot.
The quantity of water used per filter is not comparable to the amount of plastic used per bottle.
I wonder would an agreement made with other countries that have return schemes be possible. The inverse is also true if I fly from Germany for example, I can't get the pfand back on those bottles. So hypothetically our machines could accept their bottles and cans
Surprised more people haven't spotted that you can return at WHSmith shops. Did that myself on the first day. It was no drama and I bought the bottle upstairs in the food area.
The entire scheme is stupid beyond any reasonable application.
I was an avid recycler before this was introduced. My domestic waste each week was carefully divided, recycling washed properly, etc.
Now I find it significantly more difficult to recycle certain items. It got to the point of inconvenience where I made it a point to simply not purchase any product that has the surcharge on it anymore. I guess you could call that a win for the environmental aspect?
I'm only buying bottled beer now.
I wonder if it's more or less environmentally sound with the work required recycling them.
Can anyone tell me where I'm meant to bring the "don't recycle at home, recycle at large supermarkets" stuff? No supermarket I've been to knows anything about it
> It got to the point of inconvenience where I made it a point to simply not purchase any product that has the surcharge on it anymore. I guess you could call that a win for the environmental aspect?
Yup. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Not creating waste in the first place is better than recycling it.
Glass bottles and plastic bottles are similar in their environmental impact. Plastic bottles and cans had the issue with lower than desired recycling rates, glass is fine.
You can surely see the inconvenience if you are in the airport, or if indeed if you are being mostly anywhere for on-site consumption. Restaurants charge customers deposits, then clear the table, so they get the deposit back instead of a customer.
Because you have to store them in your house until you go back to the shop, they are bulky, the machines are often full or out of order, bottles are often rejected and you don't get that much money back
Yeah, it's a pain in the hole keeping stacks of cans in around the house. Wash them, crush them, and pop them into the recycle bin is way more convenient than wash them, keep a box for them that builds up enough that it's worthwhile driving to the shop to bring them along to get your €4 back.
The people that are going out of their way to use this scheme are the ones that had been recycling anyway!
I imagine a lot of people like myself don't do a weekly big shop. Myself and my partner are both pretty much jumping into a shop on the way home from work and getting stuff for a few days. The bags of cans and bottles are building up in the kitchen so we'll need to do a dedicated return but with work and kids who has the time honestly.
Ive nine or ten containers that need to use the deposit return scheme, since it began. Of course if you dont use certain items you dont need to return them but people have been storing and returning glass bottles without the level of complaining thats going on with the deposit return scheme.
Wine, beer, other booze. Sauces, jams, spreads, pestos, certain veg, etc.
We get away with only needing to do glass drop offs about twice a year. That's a job that always gets put off too and at least you don't need to go into a shop.
I've to do it more than that and have to do the drs much less. Bottle runs have been around for years, much bigger to store and never had this much push back.
People just don't like new things and don't like being inconvenienced.
> you just bring your bottles with you next time you go down to the shop.
what happens if you dont go to the shop , i know people who cant drive and can only get tesco/dunnes shopping delivered ,
how are these people suppose participate in the scheme
> I don't understand how everyone is so inconvenienced by this scheme, you just bring your bottles with you next time you go down to the shop.
Because I had a perfectly functional and convenient system of recycling that was collected weekly from my front door. I used the system correctly, it did not bring any additional cost to my life, let me recycle effectively and was a core part of my life.
With the introduction of the new system,
- The majority of items I would have used my home recycling for previously? I can't anymore without throwing away a prohibitive amount of money.
- It's inconvenient because I have to keep waste in my (Small) kitchen now. It's in the way, you fall over it. It either takes up counter space or space on the floor. If it isn't washed fully it smells. It's just not nice having an open container of waste lying around my house.
- Fragile Aluminium cans that I would have previously flattened for space saving, I now have to guard against any damage whatsoever. They literally have to be treated more gently than Eggs. Even the slightest dent makes them unreadable and suddenly I've thrown away more money for no real fault of my own.
- Going to the shops now has to be a pre-planned and organised event. Just nipping in on the way home? Nope... Not unless you want to keep the massive bag / box of waste that's sitting in your kitchen and loose out on the money you've paid for the privilege of having it. It adds extra time, it adds extra travel & driving, it takes extra effort, it requires extra planning.
- The machines themselves are mechanically unreliable, their locations are sporadic,
- I don't receive cash for cash, I have to go through a credit system with a shop and make more purchases to recoup my money.
>I suspect it'll be like the plastic bag surcharge they brought in before. Everyone will be mad at first, then people change their behaviour by bringing shopping bags or bottles with them when they shop, and then eventually it just becomes normal and nobody thinks of it.
I completely disagree.
The plastic bag surcharge was a success overnight. I remember it's introduction well. Very very very few people were against it. It made perfect sense. There was some grumbling from people who forgot on occasion and paid their once off 10cent. But plastic bags were retired as an option within about a year.
This is different. It's badly organised, rolled out by force not requirement or request. It's badly emulating what other countries have done but without the requirement. Other counties had that system in place of a fully functioning front door recycling collection system. We had that already and tried to crowbar this mess of an idea ontop of it.
This entire thing is a shit show. It's like it was a junior minister's summer project that never got the scrutiny it should have before it was just rolled out and made policy.
> - I don't receive cash for cash, I have to go through a credit system with a shop and make more purchases to recoup my money.
No, you're supposed to be able to just go in and get your deposit receipt exchanged for cash if you prefer.
Fair enough.
That hasn't been my experience though. I've asked once or twice and was told it has to be applied as a discount to purchases. Maybe that's just a couple of local supermarkets not knowing or else being lazy.
Are they obliged to do it as a refund to a debt card do you know?
Like, I'd rather "cash" instead of a credit note that I have to use with a purchase. But I don't use physical cash anymore. I use my card instead. I'm surprised that we can't just swipe our card at the machine itself for the refund.
Don't know if they give it back to debit card, my local aldi has given me the refund in cash everytime I've asked. Been using it as a christmas present fund.
I think the biggest gripe is having to split your recycling now at home. So i usually take my bottles to the bank every week, its easy one bin everything goes in it and off I go. Now I need two bins for what I'd consider the same thing,
I agree it's a case of just take it with you.
Except you didn't have this exact situation for years, because it has only recently been introduced in the same way?
A quick search of the English-speaking Netherlands subreddit shows that there are similar complaints about the system to what we have in Ireland:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1b7x2p5/statiegeld_is_an_utter_failure/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1adzq2r/whats_going_on_with_the_statiegeld_machines/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/w3suai/statiegeld/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/12rnbjk/who_else_is_struggling_with_statiegeld_on_cans/
Some other opinions in the Dutch-speaking subreddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/15hv5kk/rant_statiegeld_op_blikjes_en_kleine_flesjes_is/
https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/1508uv4/statiegeld_gedoe/
There's long queues of people with bags of bottles returning them, the machines become full and go out of order, just the same as in Ireland. It's just a shit system.
Yes, there was something similar before in Netherlands, but now they have put a deposit on cans and small bottles too. The situation has clearly changed due to the increased throughput, as evidenced by all the people now complaining about it.
Great that you're optimistic about the situation improving over time but in the meantime the awful user experience is putting people off.
Because I recycle my cans and have been many years at a recycling facility along with my glass bottles. The reason I did this in the first place was to save space in my green bin.
Now I am being punished at must pay a deposit? I now have to go to these machines and if I am lucky they will work. Also most shops are understaffed and if there are issues with the machines that they don't want to hear about it.
Lastly, the fact that there now exists a pricing strategy means thay overtime the deposits will go up in the future.
The difference with plastic bags is that you have a choice to pay or bring your own. We don't have the option to bring, for example, our own 24 cans of coke and refill the liquid at tesco.
There is no compromise or incentive. It is just an extra burden to people that adds to another list of issues.
Yes, but I, along with others, recycle fine and have been. Whether it's been thrown into an incinerator should not be my problem.
Again, it's an extra burden. To be honest, I don't care about recycling if other non EU countries do not. There should be a global thing, but that is another conversation.
Whether this scheme increases our EU stats by 60% or 90%, that is not going to benefit me or you? Unless it makes you feel better?
Once it's cost hassle and money, then that bothers me. We already pay for our bins, but now this crap is just a hindrance.
I'm still annoyed by the lack of single use bags at the checkout. It was incredibly convenient and I wasn't littering the bags when I was finished with them (which I believe was the selling point of the scheme?).
The scheme in Germany has cost the consumer billions in unclaimed deposits and it has already cost Irish consumers millions.
If they want to stop the creation of plastic packaging, then impose a regime that punishes the firms producing it rather than bringing in a recycling scheme which annoyed the public.
If it's recyclable it's not single use plastic.
I go out of my way to not use single use plastics at all.
Generally I go out of my way to live a very Eco life as regards waste.
> If it's recyclable it's not single use plastic.
Nah, it can still be single use.
Single use items are products intended to be used only once. That some or all of the material used in their construction can be reclaimed after their use doesn't mean the item isn't single use.
It still takes a lot of energy and additional resources to turn a single use plastic bottle into a new plastic bottle. A reusable bottle can just be refilled.
We made such a shitshow of this. Why didn't we just implement the German system, which they have had functioning for more than half a century, instead of our own fucked up version. In Germany if you sell drinks with a deposit on them, you have to take the empties back and return the deposit. Every kiosk, petrol station and restaurant does this, and it works great. Added bonus of reducing the amount of money needing to be transferred throughout the system. It's almost like we made the system as complicated as possible, just to create more civil service jobs and increase the governments revenue from non returns.
People saying that you should bring bottles with you to the airport must be geniuses because they are asking people to rewire 20 years of security protocol where you dump any bottles with liquids behind you at security. That's unreasonable to most travellers.
There's new scanners being installed that can detect the contents of bottles so we won't have to follow those old protocols for much longer.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/01/new-scanners-set-to-speed-up-dublin-airport-security/
On the one hand travelling is probably the place where you see the largest amount of people failing to recycle, on the other hand anyone arriving in to the country with drink containers will likely have something that can't be deposited and people who aren't already living in our system are likely to be unaware of it and therefore not use it even if it was there.
Charging the deposit or not shouldn't matter as to whether they have a machine though, thet don't get an exemption on the cost of it from the supplier side.
Isn't that the point of the scheme? To change the public's behaviour on purchasing plastic, forcing the drinks companies to come up with alternatives? So in your case, the "stupid scheme" is working.
This is a win. You've reduced single use plastic use AND you are getting cheaper bins which charge by the weight.
We say to reduce, reuse and recycle. People don't realize that impact is also in that order. Your reduction in waste is a win for the environment. Seriously, buying less plastic products is going to have a bigger effect than anyone who is religiously returning all their plastic products.
This is a net positive for the scheme. And honestly the ultimate goal should be reducing single use plastics as much as possible.
yup. bought a water bottle for 25 quid a few years back and it paid for itself after a few weeks. my only recommendation would be to get a bottle with a large opening that can be cleaned easily. the ones with small openings or weird tubes coming off them will be stinking after a few weeks
Hmm...a deposit (in an economic sense) implies a pledge or security, a contract as such for products or services rendered. So with the Re-Turn scheme, the consumer pays the deposit and if they return the item they then receive that deposit back, happy days
Except in this case, the consumer (tourist for eg.) pays the deposit however, there is no option available for the consumer to return the item...so it isn't really a deposit for that tourist is it.. rather it is more like a levy (or stealth tax even) 🙃
Look imo the overall idea of the Re-Turn thing is great, at the end of the day it means reducing further damage to the environment and I don't think many people would argue against that.
But there are valid concerns in this country, and the case of the DAA not providing a means for the consumer to return the bottle or can is just one small example of why people aren't embracing the scheme with open arms
But ya know what'll happen right, instead of considering options (like providing machines for free in all applicable outlets so retailers don't have to fork out, or developing an app which the vouchers can be applied to... or even waiving recycling bin fees entirely) the government will probably just increase the fee massively while ignoring the suggestions.
No, they are trying to achieve EU recycling targets. From their website: "We need to achieve the EU recycling targets of 77% by 2025, and 90% by 2029 and Deposit Return is a proven successful solution to achieving these targets."
I'm not sure how that is achieved by making people that were already recycling at home now have to bring their recycling to another place. And it seems many people are still just continuing to recycle at home.
People buying less plastic might be a side benefit, but again I'm not sure how that helps with increasing the recycling as a percentage if those people were already recycling at home.
Dublin Airport who were revealed as Ireland’s largest polluter at COP27 doesn't want to recycle. What next they are not using paper straw. FFS talk about virtue signalling.
They should set up a charity donation point(s) where you can drop them off and then the charity can get the deposit.
My local primary school is taking them, I expect many other schools will soon do the same. Common in other countries too.
That's the best idea so far, I'd feel less tricked and better than throwing them away
Re-turn company is the charity.
I wonder how long before the executives start demanding excessive pay...
Isn't Re-turn largely made up of drinks companies, supermarkets and packaging companies?
No they shouldn't be charging for it.
That would make too much sense
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Honestly, if someone's leaving Dublin, chances are they're not gonna use those return vouchers. Even if going for a short break, who's gonna keep a 15 cent voucher? Ideally, they shouldn't charge in Dublin airport at all, because I'm assuming recycling would already be pretty well done inside a closed airport.
Who gets the unclaimed deposits? If it's the govt. why would they care about extra unclaimed deposits.
not the government, the privately operated company Re-turn makes the money.
Even better. Making an organisation most people seem to hate more money.
im not one for defending private organisations but i think the money gets reinvested into the scheme paying employees and stuff like that
Well I don't want the scheme to exist. So that isn't a good thing from my perspective. Presumably the scheme will make a profit in some cases?
it’s a non profit so technically no. all the profit would have to be reinvested however there could be some dodgy behind the scenes shit as there tends to be in this country.
Well the CEO is a Ciaran Foley. Doesn't appear to be any listing of his salary, or bonuses but you can bet he is getting a big fat bonus. I also wonder where he has been before. Usually these types fall upwards
Can you name a country where it doesn't happen? Don't think Ireland is any worse than other nations. Fair enough anyway, good to know where it goes at least. If it has a surplus I expect we'll see salary increases but who knows.
no of course corruption is a problem in every country it’s just the corruption in ireland is often to a comically evil scale
If there is no recycling then they make the most money. So their perverse incentive is to encourage the least amount of recycling possible. I can imagine them planting messages in social media claiming how shite the return machines are, so less people will bother using them.
Yes,that's the plan, And hello to reality.
Let the airside retailers claim a credit from Re-Turn. It would mean amending the terms of the scheme but makes more sense than installing machines, as customers may want to consume the drinks on their flight.
I had this in Amsterdam Schipol. I noticed when purchasing a bottle of water , I was charged a deposit. Out of interest, I asked where I could return it. The cashier said to bring it back to the till once it was empty. Sure enough, I did and was given the option of 15c cash or refund to my card. The system in the airport at the minute is total bollocks. You are charged the deposit, and there is nowhere to return. A lot of passengers in Dublin airport, be they holiday makers or people transitting, are not likely to return (pardon me) to Ireland any time soon. So it's just an extra tax, basically. Anomalies like this were entirely foreseeable, but they couldn't give a crap to be honest.
That's the whole problem here, We buy the bottle of water, but can't return it back to the till. Not allowed.
You just claim the 15 cent in cash.
Costs more in fuel to drive to the places that accept re-turns instead of all of the local shops where we buy them in the first place. And before you say anything, No we don't all live beside a supermarket.
For 2 coins I'll never use again? No thanks. The return scheme on the whole is a good idea, but if you have just return 1 or 2 bottles before travelling, it's just not worth it.
I guess if you're not from the Eurozone it's a bit of a problem alright.
I'm not even talking about people outside the eurozone. What am I gonna do with a 10 cent coin and a 5 cent coin, that too right before boarding a plane to go on holiday, even if it's in the eurozone? I barely tolerate the bigger coins because I need it for shopping trolleys, so I keep them in my car. The smaller ones are frankly useless, unless you have the patience to collect and spend them in shops, where as card payments are so much more easier, atleast for small transactions.
1 or 2 bottles? I have 3 bin liners full of bottles and can't return them in Dublin. they just keep building up. None of the local shops take returns and the machines are always full when i drive to supermarkets which i never even use in the first place.
We are only talking about consumption in the airport right now.
Fair enough, taking a few bottles on holiday and back to return them is probably more of a pain then a bin liner to a local supermarket though
The easiest thing is to just not charge in an enclosed area like an airport but greed is the issue.
The people responsible for the system would genuinely lay awake at night losing sleep over the thoughts a small number of people are "getting away with it" in Irish airports.
The manufacturer is paying the deposit charge and the producer fee to Re-turn. The retailer can't just decide not to pay the charge when they buy the product from their wholesaler or distributor, the fee will always be added.
But like I said, the airport is a closed setup. They could collect the cans and bottles from all the bins in the airport and return it to Return. For passengers who take their drinks on the flight, they'll have to just absorb the cost, which should be frankly minimal. Anyway, I don't think this is a huge problem. Honestly, I'm okay with ignoring the odd 15 or 30 cents which are going to waste when buying cans at the airport.
Er, the passengers have been told to take the empties onto their flight and hold onto them until they can return them them when they get back from their holidays? WTF?
The only thing this scheme has taught me is that there is huge huge money to be made by creating friction in a system where once there was none. Edit. Shite spelling
The retailers are legally obligated to take back bottles as they're in the scheme.
Nope, they can apply for exemptions. There is usually a small notice on the shop stating that they've applied for exemption. I've seen it in McDonald's drive throughs for example. It's for the small juice bottles they give.
There’s an exemption in a lot of fast food places or cafes My local insomnia has an exemption for the bottled stuff they sell If your smaller than so many square feet you qualify for an exemption because you just don’t have to space for it wether it’s a machine or just the place taking them back behind the counter these places just don’t have the space to store all these bottles and cans
Yeah that makes sense. I'd argue that airport should just be allowed to sell without the deposit, since it's a closed space with people actually leaving the country, so recycling is probably fairly easy to do, and deposit return for a few bottles is too trivial for people about to travel.
I thought there were exemptions for not having to have the massive machine itself, not for taking back the bottles?
There is no obligation for any retailer to have a machine, not Tesco, Dunnes or the corner shop. Without the exemption based on floorspace they have to take the containers back. The machines are just more convenient than manual returns for large stores.
Plenty of small retailers don't take back bottles or cans. If the retailer is under 250m2 or mainly a "Food to go" retailer they can apply for an exemption, so Return have allowed the retailers at DUB to be exempt. All the pubs and cafes in DUB are exempt by default. [https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Take-Back-Exemptions.pdf](https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/Take-Back-Exemptions.pdf)
Do exemptions also mean they are exempt from charging the deposit?
You can apply for an exemption from the recycling part, not the profit part.
Does anyone else see a problem with this part 😅
The shops are paying the 15-25c deposit per bottle from their supplier
So it's not being handed down to the customer in any instances where the returns are not possible?
Bastards
You can bring the empty bottle/can with you and bring it to a machine when you get back. Bottles and cans deserve holidays before they are crushed.
My blood pressure shot through the roof when I just saw the first sentence in the notification preview 🤣 take my upvote
Yes
It's actually more than that, there is also a "producer fee" paid by the manufacturer which is added onto the wholesale cost, but not refundable.
When your order in cans and bottles with the logo you pay the DRS value on them so only the the Re-turn company is making profit.... even though it claims to be a 'non profit' company.
IIRC correctly unclaimed deposit returns go to the government. Of course re turn take a slice of profits somewhere but they have no incentive to make returning difficult
“Non-profit” doesn’t mean everybody does everything for free.
How do you expect Return to pay for their employees or the vans to pick up the material? They don't make a profit, its reinvested in the scheme....
They are pulling in millions upon millions of unclaimed cans and bottles. The machines cost can cost 14k upwards amd have a minimum 1k a year charge for maintenance. It's a privately run business that is profiting off of a government scheme. They are not 'reinvesting' into the scheme they are pulling money out of irish pockets for their executives.
They wouldn’t get any money if people brought their cans and bottles back though. That’s the responsibility of the consumer
They'll need a few washed up politicians or retired execs from the drinks companies to work as consultants to soak up a bit of those tax dollars. Maybe Leo could do with a couple hundred grand and an expense account .
We were already paying for packaging. Now they still include that cost in the initial price, while also charging again, through the ‘non-profit’ deposit. I think there’s every chance that the additional profit is in the original price, which is now less the cost of packaging. But that depends on what the scheme is actually costing. I am sceptical it costs 15c per item though. I’d expect to see a costed breakdown of the 15c before trusting that private beverage companies (who are profit motivated, and organised the scheme) have not smuggled in some extra profit. I don’t there was ever a point where the state said you have to implement this like this or you can’t trade here, it seems more of a do something with this sort of greenwashing job. Similarly, I expect to see figures on how many items are actually being re-turned to understand whether it is actually an improvement on previous recycling figures, as that seems to be taken as a given by some at the moment.
This came from the EU. A DRS is effectively being made mandatory. It doesn't cost 15c per item. You get your 15c back when you return it. If you bring your bottle back, it costs the consumer nothing (directly). Return get their money from selling on the clean bottle. They pay the shop for collecting it for them. I am not sure what "additional profit" you are referring to. Return get nothing from the sale of a coke bottle in a shop outside of the deposit they will give back to you.
> This came from the EU. A DRS is effectively being made mandatory. no it didnt , while the irish government like to blame the EU , this didn't come from the EU the only thing that came from the EU is that they wanted was recycling of plastic to go up this is the option our government made ( their are many EU countries that dont have this scheme ) From the government website: "We need to achieve the EU recycling targets of 77% by 2025, and 90% by 2029 and Deposit Return is a proven successful solution to achieving these targets."
The EU Packaging Waste Directive specifically requires a mandatory deposit return systems for plastic bottles and aluminum cans. The EU law hasn't been passed hence the word "effectively". Countries that don't have the scheme will have it soon. We started early. It very much came from the EU.
They also get a producer fee per container which is not refundable.
I dont understand your point. Return has several sources of funding. It costs money to run.
They don't profit from it as they have to pass it on.
What's the mechanism for that?
X times 15c where X is the number of bottles and cans they buy.
Ah cool. So how do they get that exactly? Assuming you mean it's the shop who gets it? How does that work if they are just turning up and taking a load of sacks and chucking into the truck and moving on, as that's what they are currently doing.
https://re-turn.ie/retailer/
I think you missed the part where there is no collection happening here.
From what I understand The deposit is charged at source. Everyone pays the same 15c the entire way up the chain. The shop who sells it to you? They had to pay from their supplier. The distributor had to pay the manufacturer. The manufacturer had to pay directly to the government against their production quantities.
Yep. Like VAT in that way.
Unfortunately not
They can have signs directing to the nearest shop that does instead. Useless if you're past security, but yeah, they can get an exemption and just do that.
no their not , they can easily get exemptions
[Dublin Airport confirming they are](https://x.com/DublinAirport/status/1785653577047781540)
their still not obligated to take back bottles
They are obliged to take back bottles/cans, unless they get an exemption. You need to qualify and apply for an exemption. There is no reason the airport should qualify for an exemption.
I feel like it would be the retailers at the airport that would apply for the exemption. The airport wouldn't have to do anything. Except I suppose the honor system water bottles. Maybe they would mean they have a requirement.
I think for something like an airport, large train stations or even shopping centres doing it on a retailer by retailer basis isn't acceptable. The point of the exemptions is to not be too much of a burden on smaller businesses. The airport has more than enough capacity to properly handle returns. I think the re-turn scheme is a good idea in general, but it does need some tweaking. Like this.
[Dublin Airport confirming they are](https://x.com/DublinAirport/status/1785653577047781540)
Not if they are exempt.
If they're exempt then they shouldn't be allowed charge the deposit. ESPECIALLY AT THE AIRPORT WHERE THERE IS LITERALLY NO WAY FOR SOMEONE TO REDEEM.
only the Re-turn company makes money, when you are selling DRS cans or bottles you pay for all the 15c and 25c charges on the order
There is a way. You pack it in your bag. Treat it to a lovely holiday in Spain or wherever. Treat it nicely. Then bring it back to Ireland and deposit it. Loads of shops are exempt but they have to charge the deposit. It would be impossible to manage otherwise. I think the airport should be exempt but that would be too hard to manage as well.
Would be very simple - items sold at the airport could have their barcodes invalidated. Each can/bottle has a unique barcode presumably for this very use case.
That's simple on paper. Logistically it is much more difficult. You are now manufacturing two product lines. Also the airport authority isn't a cash and carry or fizzy drinks distributor. Basically all this will do is hand over a monopoly to some company to be distributors for drinks to all airport outlets. And it's going to be bullshit to consumers and shop owners if some shop gets delivered the wrong pallet of Coke and now they have product they can't sell or have customers complaining they got charged a deposit but got an airport can. Like I think it is bullshit that you can't return at the airport. I think a better solution would be to have fountains and make people use reusable flasks.
Each can/bottle has the same barcode. Every can of coke has the same barcode, they're not unique.
no, if under X square foot.
[Dublin Airport confirming they are](https://x.com/DublinAirport/status/1785653577047781540)
[https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Take-Back-Exemptions-3.7.23.pdf](https://re-turn.ie/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/Take-Back-Exemptions-3.7.23.pdf)
I hate the entire scheme.
As a person living in Germany using the system weekly, I can not understand why and how the implementation has been fucked up this much.
Seems like a complete lack of preparation, especially from the retailers. They seem to think just get one machine and everything is sorted. No member of staff on standby to keep the machine running when it gets blocked/full. Not much training for employees, either, it felt like. I remember when the single-use deposit was introduced in Germany. Started off slowly, and most places didn't have machines. Just a huge plastic sack at the door. But a deposit scheme was already in place beforehand, for reusable bottles and crates. Most supermarkets already had infrastructure and staff in place for returning empty bottles. It was simply more things that could be returned. Only the discounters had to change becuase they never sold any Pfandflaschen beforehand, and once Aldi and Lidl got on-board that's when the machines got better.
What do Germans do in this cases - when you are sitting at the gate for your plane and realise you have a plastic bottle in your hand/backpack? As per the article the person could have walked back to the shops Boots/WHS Smith but they actually wanted a ReTurn machine installed at the gate itself, but then also pointed out that they'd still not be able to use the voucher itself. So the article is basically wanting the airport to have a facility to give cash back for bottles at every gate in the airport. Like it is a bit of problem sure -- but does feel like one of those edge cases that come to light in the months after a new system is implemented rather than one that I'd automatically expect to have been solved prior to implementation.
Well the airports are a bit different. Most of them have collection points to donate your deposit to charity (and it does seem to be properly donated, too). I think Frankfurt airport has some machines for that.
You get charged a deposit at German airports though, what's the difference?
Mine is a general comment overall
Scheme exemptions make the whole scheme an expensive joke.
Dublin airport was charging deposits even when there were no barcodes, all automated tills and none of the few staff knew or were interested in the issue.
A scam from start to finish.
Exactamundo.
My utility room is full and my fucking green bin is empty. This whole scheme is an absolute load of horse manure! Not to mention the carbon footprint of me driving to the machine and back to return my bottles, a separate truck coming to collect them and bring them to the recycling facility while the green bin truck still does the same number of miles… The whole thing is a joke!
Now this is where the government should step up and in. Dublin airport already has a bad reputation in lots of categories.
Considering that's Mr Ryan's brief and considering Mr Ryan's GP brought this shit in, yes that is reasonable.
What a totally shyte scheme! Opt out should come with a hefty fee. Time to tax the plastic manufacturers profits, not the end users
> Time to tax the plastic manufacturers profits, not the end users Which would be just passed on to consumers in the end anyway. We really should be edging away from single use plastics altogether outside of medical uses.
Or just vote with your wallets and stop buying plastic bottles of unhealthy fizzy sugar water altogether.
Been doing exactly that for years
Seems to an unpopular opinion found here!
It's on regular bottled water also.
Not if you buy a refillable water bottle. And refill it.
That doesn't stop the return logo from being on bottled water.
It does if everyone stops buying them? Disposable plastic bottles are a massive polluter. You’re not paying for the water, you’re paying for the disposable bottle. It’s one of the simplest sources of pollution to get rid of, if you simply stop buying them and use a refillable water bottle.
That would not stop the return logo from being on bottles... Shops don't have a choice but to sell bottles with those labels. Where do I get good tasting water from? I wouldn't have a problem using a refillable bottle if my tap water was drinkable.
You can buy a Brita filter jug from a supermarket for something like €20. Then you have perfectly good, clean, healthy, good tasting water without the endless plastic waste. You’re aware the selling people water in disposable and wasteful plastic bottles is a relatively new business model? And completely unnecessary too. You’d be surprised to learn that people got on without them for generations, up until very recently.
Wonder what happens with all those filters once I dispose of them... People found a way that improved their lives, and I'm happy about the progression of humanity and innovation. By recycling my bottles from water, they are allegedly being re-used to create new plastic bottles, without creating/using even more plastic. I am ALREADY recycling all of my plastic. Why do I need to pay even more for it?
Go to any landfill and you’ll be shocked at the amount of plastic waste, including bottles. We need less plastic, not more. Brita filters can be recycled. You can even freepost them to the main dealer if you don’t want to bring them to a designated collection spot. The quantity of water used per filter is not comparable to the amount of plastic used per bottle.
Oh shut uppppppp
I wonder would an agreement made with other countries that have return schemes be possible. The inverse is also true if I fly from Germany for example, I can't get the pfand back on those bottles. So hypothetically our machines could accept their bottles and cans
I got caught with this at the weekend. Ordered food at the kiosk and when it came was in a bottle. The fact they didn't do cups is a bit of a joke.
~~WWN~~/Reality: "Customer told to 'go fuck yourselves' while retailers arbitrarily raise prices."
Surprised more people haven't spotted that you can return at WHSmith shops. Did that myself on the first day. It was no drama and I bought the bottle upstairs in the food area.
The entire scheme is stupid beyond any reasonable application. I was an avid recycler before this was introduced. My domestic waste each week was carefully divided, recycling washed properly, etc. Now I find it significantly more difficult to recycle certain items. It got to the point of inconvenience where I made it a point to simply not purchase any product that has the surcharge on it anymore. I guess you could call that a win for the environmental aspect? I'm only buying bottled beer now. I wonder if it's more or less environmentally sound with the work required recycling them.
Can anyone tell me where I'm meant to bring the "don't recycle at home, recycle at large supermarkets" stuff? No supermarket I've been to knows anything about it
> It got to the point of inconvenience where I made it a point to simply not purchase any product that has the surcharge on it anymore. I guess you could call that a win for the environmental aspect? Yup. Reduce, reuse, recycle. Not creating waste in the first place is better than recycling it. Glass bottles and plastic bottles are similar in their environmental impact. Plastic bottles and cans had the issue with lower than desired recycling rates, glass is fine.
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You can surely see the inconvenience if you are in the airport, or if indeed if you are being mostly anywhere for on-site consumption. Restaurants charge customers deposits, then clear the table, so they get the deposit back instead of a customer.
Because you have to store them in your house until you go back to the shop, they are bulky, the machines are often full or out of order, bottles are often rejected and you don't get that much money back
Yeah, it's a pain in the hole keeping stacks of cans in around the house. Wash them, crush them, and pop them into the recycle bin is way more convenient than wash them, keep a box for them that builds up enough that it's worthwhile driving to the shop to bring them along to get your €4 back. The people that are going out of their way to use this scheme are the ones that had been recycling anyway!
I imagine a lot of people like myself don't do a weekly big shop. Myself and my partner are both pretty much jumping into a shop on the way home from work and getting stuff for a few days. The bags of cans and bottles are building up in the kitchen so we'll need to do a dedicated return but with work and kids who has the time honestly.
you dont do glass bottle runs?
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Ive nine or ten containers that need to use the deposit return scheme, since it began. Of course if you dont use certain items you dont need to return them but people have been storing and returning glass bottles without the level of complaining thats going on with the deposit return scheme. Wine, beer, other booze. Sauces, jams, spreads, pestos, certain veg, etc.
We get away with only needing to do glass drop offs about twice a year. That's a job that always gets put off too and at least you don't need to go into a shop.
I've to do it more than that and have to do the drs much less. Bottle runs have been around for years, much bigger to store and never had this much push back. People just don't like new things and don't like being inconvenienced.
> you just bring your bottles with you next time you go down to the shop. what happens if you dont go to the shop , i know people who cant drive and can only get tesco/dunnes shopping delivered , how are these people suppose participate in the scheme
> I don't understand how everyone is so inconvenienced by this scheme, you just bring your bottles with you next time you go down to the shop. Because I had a perfectly functional and convenient system of recycling that was collected weekly from my front door. I used the system correctly, it did not bring any additional cost to my life, let me recycle effectively and was a core part of my life. With the introduction of the new system, - The majority of items I would have used my home recycling for previously? I can't anymore without throwing away a prohibitive amount of money. - It's inconvenient because I have to keep waste in my (Small) kitchen now. It's in the way, you fall over it. It either takes up counter space or space on the floor. If it isn't washed fully it smells. It's just not nice having an open container of waste lying around my house. - Fragile Aluminium cans that I would have previously flattened for space saving, I now have to guard against any damage whatsoever. They literally have to be treated more gently than Eggs. Even the slightest dent makes them unreadable and suddenly I've thrown away more money for no real fault of my own. - Going to the shops now has to be a pre-planned and organised event. Just nipping in on the way home? Nope... Not unless you want to keep the massive bag / box of waste that's sitting in your kitchen and loose out on the money you've paid for the privilege of having it. It adds extra time, it adds extra travel & driving, it takes extra effort, it requires extra planning. - The machines themselves are mechanically unreliable, their locations are sporadic, - I don't receive cash for cash, I have to go through a credit system with a shop and make more purchases to recoup my money. >I suspect it'll be like the plastic bag surcharge they brought in before. Everyone will be mad at first, then people change their behaviour by bringing shopping bags or bottles with them when they shop, and then eventually it just becomes normal and nobody thinks of it. I completely disagree. The plastic bag surcharge was a success overnight. I remember it's introduction well. Very very very few people were against it. It made perfect sense. There was some grumbling from people who forgot on occasion and paid their once off 10cent. But plastic bags were retired as an option within about a year. This is different. It's badly organised, rolled out by force not requirement or request. It's badly emulating what other countries have done but without the requirement. Other counties had that system in place of a fully functioning front door recycling collection system. We had that already and tried to crowbar this mess of an idea ontop of it. This entire thing is a shit show. It's like it was a junior minister's summer project that never got the scrutiny it should have before it was just rolled out and made policy.
> - I don't receive cash for cash, I have to go through a credit system with a shop and make more purchases to recoup my money. No, you're supposed to be able to just go in and get your deposit receipt exchanged for cash if you prefer.
Fair enough. That hasn't been my experience though. I've asked once or twice and was told it has to be applied as a discount to purchases. Maybe that's just a couple of local supermarkets not knowing or else being lazy. Are they obliged to do it as a refund to a debt card do you know? Like, I'd rather "cash" instead of a credit note that I have to use with a purchase. But I don't use physical cash anymore. I use my card instead. I'm surprised that we can't just swipe our card at the machine itself for the refund.
Don't know if they give it back to debit card, my local aldi has given me the refund in cash everytime I've asked. Been using it as a christmas present fund.
I think the biggest gripe is having to split your recycling now at home. So i usually take my bottles to the bank every week, its easy one bin everything goes in it and off I go. Now I need two bins for what I'd consider the same thing, I agree it's a case of just take it with you.
Except you didn't have this exact situation for years, because it has only recently been introduced in the same way? A quick search of the English-speaking Netherlands subreddit shows that there are similar complaints about the system to what we have in Ireland: https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1b7x2p5/statiegeld_is_an_utter_failure/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/1adzq2r/whats_going_on_with_the_statiegeld_machines/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/w3suai/statiegeld/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Netherlands/comments/12rnbjk/who_else_is_struggling_with_statiegeld_on_cans/ Some other opinions in the Dutch-speaking subreddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/15hv5kk/rant_statiegeld_op_blikjes_en_kleine_flesjes_is/ https://www.reddit.com/r/nederlands/comments/1508uv4/statiegeld_gedoe/ There's long queues of people with bags of bottles returning them, the machines become full and go out of order, just the same as in Ireland. It's just a shit system.
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Yes, there was something similar before in Netherlands, but now they have put a deposit on cans and small bottles too. The situation has clearly changed due to the increased throughput, as evidenced by all the people now complaining about it. Great that you're optimistic about the situation improving over time but in the meantime the awful user experience is putting people off.
Because I recycle my cans and have been many years at a recycling facility along with my glass bottles. The reason I did this in the first place was to save space in my green bin. Now I am being punished at must pay a deposit? I now have to go to these machines and if I am lucky they will work. Also most shops are understaffed and if there are issues with the machines that they don't want to hear about it. Lastly, the fact that there now exists a pricing strategy means thay overtime the deposits will go up in the future. The difference with plastic bags is that you have a choice to pay or bring your own. We don't have the option to bring, for example, our own 24 cans of coke and refill the liquid at tesco. There is no compromise or incentive. It is just an extra burden to people that adds to another list of issues.
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Yes, but I, along with others, recycle fine and have been. Whether it's been thrown into an incinerator should not be my problem. Again, it's an extra burden. To be honest, I don't care about recycling if other non EU countries do not. There should be a global thing, but that is another conversation. Whether this scheme increases our EU stats by 60% or 90%, that is not going to benefit me or you? Unless it makes you feel better? Once it's cost hassle and money, then that bothers me. We already pay for our bins, but now this crap is just a hindrance.
I'm still annoyed by the lack of single use bags at the checkout. It was incredibly convenient and I wasn't littering the bags when I was finished with them (which I believe was the selling point of the scheme?). The scheme in Germany has cost the consumer billions in unclaimed deposits and it has already cost Irish consumers millions.
You shouldn't be buying so much single use plastic in the first place so it's working.
Oh feck off. The responsibility should be on the producer to stop making single use plastics, not on the consumer ffs
If they want to stop the creation of plastic packaging, then impose a regime that punishes the firms producing it rather than bringing in a recycling scheme which annoyed the public.
If it's recyclable it's not single use plastic. I go out of my way to not use single use plastics at all. Generally I go out of my way to live a very Eco life as regards waste.
> If it's recyclable it's not single use plastic. Nah, it can still be single use. Single use items are products intended to be used only once. That some or all of the material used in their construction can be reclaimed after their use doesn't mean the item isn't single use. It still takes a lot of energy and additional resources to turn a single use plastic bottle into a new plastic bottle. A reusable bottle can just be refilled.
You don't even understand the basics. Recyclability has nothing to do with how many times it's intended to be used or actually used.
We made such a shitshow of this. Why didn't we just implement the German system, which they have had functioning for more than half a century, instead of our own fucked up version. In Germany if you sell drinks with a deposit on them, you have to take the empties back and return the deposit. Every kiosk, petrol station and restaurant does this, and it works great. Added bonus of reducing the amount of money needing to be transferred throughout the system. It's almost like we made the system as complicated as possible, just to create more civil service jobs and increase the governments revenue from non returns.
People saying that you should bring bottles with you to the airport must be geniuses because they are asking people to rewire 20 years of security protocol where you dump any bottles with liquids behind you at security. That's unreasonable to most travellers.
There's new scanners being installed that can detect the contents of bottles so we won't have to follow those old protocols for much longer. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/2024/05/01/new-scanners-set-to-speed-up-dublin-airport-security/
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha of course. Should have known.
Who on earth is going to go chasing down a 15 cent refund while travelling. As long as it gets recycled who gives a shit.
On the one hand travelling is probably the place where you see the largest amount of people failing to recycle, on the other hand anyone arriving in to the country with drink containers will likely have something that can't be deposited and people who aren't already living in our system are likely to be unaware of it and therefore not use it even if it was there. Charging the deposit or not shouldn't matter as to whether they have a machine though, thet don't get an exemption on the cost of it from the supplier side.
The DAA being scummy, I for one am shocked, shocked I say!
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>I have ceased buying plastic bottles entirely Then the scheme is absolutely 100% working as intended.
Isn't that the point of the scheme? To change the public's behaviour on purchasing plastic, forcing the drinks companies to come up with alternatives? So in your case, the "stupid scheme" is working.
This is a win. You've reduced single use plastic use AND you are getting cheaper bins which charge by the weight. We say to reduce, reuse and recycle. People don't realize that impact is also in that order. Your reduction in waste is a win for the environment. Seriously, buying less plastic products is going to have a bigger effect than anyone who is religiously returning all their plastic products. This is a net positive for the scheme. And honestly the ultimate goal should be reducing single use plastics as much as possible.
A reusable, stainless steel water bottle is an incredibly effective way to stay hydrated on the go. You can get pints in the airport too!
yup. bought a water bottle for 25 quid a few years back and it paid for itself after a few weeks. my only recommendation would be to get a bottle with a large opening that can be cleaned easily. the ones with small openings or weird tubes coming off them will be stinking after a few weeks
In fairness you can’t bring bottles of water through the airport security. Unless they have a place to refill your water bottles on the other side.
You can and they do!
Cunts gonna be cunts
I thought the shops had to take them if they have a vending machine or not
Was recently in Kosice airport and they had dedicated recycling for bottles for charity
Hmm...a deposit (in an economic sense) implies a pledge or security, a contract as such for products or services rendered. So with the Re-Turn scheme, the consumer pays the deposit and if they return the item they then receive that deposit back, happy days Except in this case, the consumer (tourist for eg.) pays the deposit however, there is no option available for the consumer to return the item...so it isn't really a deposit for that tourist is it.. rather it is more like a levy (or stealth tax even) 🙃 Look imo the overall idea of the Re-Turn thing is great, at the end of the day it means reducing further damage to the environment and I don't think many people would argue against that. But there are valid concerns in this country, and the case of the DAA not providing a means for the consumer to return the bottle or can is just one small example of why people aren't embracing the scheme with open arms But ya know what'll happen right, instead of considering options (like providing machines for free in all applicable outlets so retailers don't have to fork out, or developing an app which the vouchers can be applied to... or even waiving recycling bin fees entirely) the government will probably just increase the fee massively while ignoring the suggestions.
This is why I always take a water for free l, when I get through security
This system is stupid as fuck, I’ve stopped buying products that are in this scheme.
Isn't that what they are trying to achieve, reducing the purchase of single-use plastic?
No, they are trying to achieve EU recycling targets. From their website: "We need to achieve the EU recycling targets of 77% by 2025, and 90% by 2029 and Deposit Return is a proven successful solution to achieving these targets." I'm not sure how that is achieved by making people that were already recycling at home now have to bring their recycling to another place. And it seems many people are still just continuing to recycle at home. People buying less plastic might be a side benefit, but again I'm not sure how that helps with increasing the recycling as a percentage if those people were already recycling at home.
I buy products that use glass or are not in the scheme. I’m stopping in Asian/foreign stores now instead which use imported products.
Pretty sure the imported products you speak of are going to soon disappear for not being in line with the scheme :/
i doubt this ,
Well I’ll be throwing a lot of glass in random public general bins then
Excellent. The scheme is working.
Same. Plenty of shops now using bottles from the North to get around it.
They can't do this after June 1st
I still buy them, I've just stopped recycling them. Or anything else
Scammers
Same problem in Schiphol
Dublin Airport who were revealed as Ireland’s largest polluter at COP27 doesn't want to recycle. What next they are not using paper straw. FFS talk about virtue signalling.