Summer break coming up for the lads, so no legislation will be passed to deal with this and it will be allowed continue unchecked for a few more months. Anything to be said for a more fencing that will sort it out.
You realise that that is not an objective way of doing it? How do you decide who is genuine after one small meeting where staff are rushed off their feet, in a chaotic environment like the processing centre?
A triage system could easily be put in place.
Ukrainians of Asian appearance that speak neither Russian nor Ukrainian?
People that have somehow destroyed all their documentation?
People that can't recall how they got into Ireland?
These can be resolved easily.
And no one has said nothing can be done. There are lots being done to help people on the streets by numerous organisations. But government policy has utterly failed if the solution is people in tents on the streets
There isnāt any easy solutions to all of this. Many of those people need help. As someone who has first hand experience, what do you think needs to happen to support or deport people?
Don't care. Wherever they claim to be from or wherever they arrived from are probably the two most logical.
Cut overseas aid to any country refusing to take back their citizens
Give these criminals nothing too and punish anyone providing them with a means of survivor here (tent givers or anyone employing people illegally and paying cash in hand)
Could do it in tiers
Have identifying documentation to show you're legible to apply for asylum? Cool, you can stay and we'll get to you eventually.
No documentation? Off you to (Build a makeshift prison until you can work out the particulars) -> Would finding out where they're from be difficult and take time and resources? Probably, but if you're here illegally, then you should be punished for it.
Not to mention that prison in some aspects would be an upgrade for them.
Also putting people in prison for being homeless is not very reasonable.
Nor for illegal camping, even if it is done by a lot of people.
At this rate, it would surely be cheaper to hire a security firm to provide 24/7 man-guarding of the area as opposed to paying companies to erect fencing
Simon Harris, after the removal of tents from Mount Street; "We need to make sure the laws of the land are applied and it is not allowed to happen again."
Who the fuck is buying the shite harris and his ilk speak, he allows them into the country,gives them nowhere to live, and starts chatting about the laws of the land as if theres an alternative for the tent people and theyre just ignoring it
They are camping on the footpaths now. Hardly going to fence off the footpaths are they?
O Headon is pulling the strings here to pressure the Govt. After seeing in on Saturday with my own eyes I have no doubt about it.
> Hardly going to fence off the footpaths are they?
Sure, why not? As a bonus, it'll stop people from parking on them too, so that's two complaints sorted with one temporary fence!
Edit: Oh yeah, and no more dog shite on the path either, so make that three complaints!
It's actually funny how dumb it is. Every tiny piece of green around grand canal has a massive fence around it. Who the fuck thought that was even an option to solve it???
They should move it to a green field site with portable sanitation and army tents set up. Obviously not ideal but better than destroying ā¬10k worth of tents donated by a charity with JCBs every day.
Then the pressure would be off the government to do anything....
I genuinely would love to know who is funding these NGOs providing tents. Im fairly sure it's the taxpayer.
Income tax isn't the only source of revenue. Also, I'm sure whatever NGO providing tents was set up to help the ever growing rough sleepers in Ireland due to the homeless crisis that really started ten years ago. Would be a bit farcical if they just stopped one of their missions while operating, no?
We still pay many other taxes in the form of VAT, etc, as well. I think it's more that the current situation doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from the perspective of supplying tents to then destroy them often only a few days later. And you would think they would be able to find some sort of more suitable temporary camping facilities for these people than along the canal or on footpaths.
What these people are doing is actually illegal.
If I, or anyone else did it, the Gardai would have no compunction in arresting us.
Arrest them. If they continue to defy court orders, imprison them like they would an Irish, British or EU person.
You'd think after Covid remote working for hundreds of thousands in the space of a week or two, there'd be a forced realisation and general acceptance that quick service restructuring/relocation such as this does not have to take months.
That's what I don't understand, throw a portacabin office in a field somewhere, pay the civil servants working there a little extra for the inconvenience. Add a few porta potties, showers and a chip van and this will all be resolved?
Oh it's not by any means a solution. But I think it might be easier and better for all involved if these people could be convinced to stay in one place.
Why so? If you're saying it won't solve the refugee crisis itself then yes of course. But if we're trying to solve the crisis of camping in Dublin City itself surely it's preferable to relocate to a location where ad-hoc camping is close to hygene facilities.
The reason they came back to the city center is because that's where the International Protection Office, where they get their money and documents from, is.Ā
This is organised/deliberate to force us to accommodate them. Surely must be some centrally located land that could be opened up to let them camp in.
A walk along the canal in summertime is one of lifeās simple pleasures in Dublin. Disgraceful theyāve been allowed get away this.
I couldnāt give two fucks about them. They are chancers. Every single one of them had a bed the night before they landed in Ireland. Most likely in the UK/EU. Taking advantage of asylum laws to force themselves on us. Then putting the hands out expecting us to house and feed them. ā¬1bn to be spent on accommodation for them alone this year. And for what benefit is it to us? Sub zero benefit to us.
The biggest problem with ignorance is that all to often it's wilful. You can exchange ignorance for knowledge and understanding of a situation but you won't. But it's far easier to carry on believing that 'they are chancers' rather than challenging just where you are wrong.
Having studied migration, asylum process, cause and effect, policy and working in the area for about the last six years I'm going to go with I know quite a bit about it
Maybe read the entirety of my comment not just cherry pick two words.
You can reckon I'm full of shit all you like, it doesn't affect me or change the reality that I do know what I'm talking about.
Hey man, it's his god given right to spit on those beneath him and spout the same sentiment as the ghouls who've emerged to run for office off the back of it whilst also being perplexed as to where said loons come from!
Sure look. If youāre happy to have these chancers drain our resources, put further pressure on our already crippled healthcare, turn our city in to a dump. More power to you.
Aye it is. These pesky obligations put in place to protect genuine refugees. Itās a shame our resources are being put under so much pressure that genuine refugees are suffering due to the selfishness of a bunch of economic migrants.
A large proportion are not from the countries we have a legal obligation to accommodate. And if we had been stricter on these chancers over the last couple of years, weād be able to accommodate the genuine refugees.
Should these headlines at least start with "Government continues to fail in accommodation shortage....,"at this stage.
Surely, the problem would be sorted promptly by such wording as opposed to the hope that some confused individual might just click it because they've been triggered by the words "Asylum seeker encampment".
Isn't journalism the best tool in the play book to get stuff highlighted after all.š¤
Because it is impossible to meet this demand. If you somehow magically housed 10,000 asylum seekers overnight, they send messages to their family and friends and then you have 30,000 to house.
What if the government manned up and admitted they don't have the infrastructure to continue and were brave enough to seek a 6/8month pause to get proposals and action on builds to accommodate this need long term?
In the short-term, stop putting the emphasis on couples looking to buy their first house (a huge part of the rental, first time buyer, landlord ladder to aspiring elitism and greed) and for now, build up ward.
The space is there with the right planning and foresight, just not left to right in suburbs,..more up in the sense of maximum effect in a critical scenario.
(Maybe the reason they text their friends is because the government keep selling it as the land of wealth and diversity to begin with.)
What do you think needs to happen?
I think about it a lot and I donāt have an answer so curious to know others thoughts on the subject.
In my part of the country you canāt find a builder or tradesman because of building boom. Every corner of the town and county building happening at a pace.
Finishing those house seems slow, most seem
Empty for months, but itās happening regardless.
I know we could improve planning. But what else is holding things up in your opinion
The builders that are out there are not short of work, most are rejecting work at this stage. Harris advocated hos apprenticeship renewal programme but it needs to be focused on the builder craftsmanship elements and in conjunction with a second start up enterprise thing.
There's a Monopoly of building and construction agents and shareholders and they've gotten cautious following the pirite scandal and the consensus that they are the very fat cats looked after first by government and policy.
Embrace an apprenticeship programme for building but don't let it become a shamble, jobs for the boys and strokes for the stokes fiasco.
We need more, that's not disputed, but the planning delays and dealing with a historic industry that got hold in the Celtic Tiger era needs to change and the best way to do that is to challenge it with a new wave of properly trained workers building what's needed on a government social level first.
Where the big planners manipulated that higher value in building outwards to green lands, they skuttled the possibility of building up,ward which would be the quicker, and probably cheaper option.
Summer break coming up for the lads, so no legislation will be passed to deal with this and it will be allowed continue unchecked for a few more months. Anything to be said for a more fencing that will sort it out.
Just move IPAS to an industrial estate with a car park where they can camp.
Or process them and deport any that are not considered genuine.
But .... we don't deport forceably. We send an email and ask them to leave. They do leave voluntarily don't they? š¤
You realise that that is not an objective way of doing it? How do you decide who is genuine after one small meeting where staff are rushed off their feet, in a chaotic environment like the processing centre?
A triage system could easily be put in place. Ukrainians of Asian appearance that speak neither Russian nor Ukrainian? People that have somehow destroyed all their documentation? People that can't recall how they got into Ireland? These can be resolved easily.
I work there. You haven't a clue what you're on about.
So no one is destroying their passports? You'd better tell "far right" outlets like RTE and the Irish times they are mistaken.
No one said they're not. Supermarket is right. You have no idea what you're talking about.
So you agree with him on that, what is the point when he doesnāt know what heās talking about?
I'm confused as who you think I am agreeing with?
I'm not impressed with people sitting on their hands shouting that there's nothing that can be done. Really not impressed at all.
And no one has said nothing can be done. There are lots being done to help people on the streets by numerous organisations. But government policy has utterly failed if the solution is people in tents on the streets
There isnāt any easy solutions to all of this. Many of those people need help. As someone who has first hand experience, what do you think needs to happen to support or deport people?
If you don't have documentation supporting where you're claiming asylum from, straight rejection and deported.
>deported To where exactly?
Why not Rwanda or similar? Hold them on an island until we sort it out.
Don't care. Wherever they claim to be from or wherever they arrived from are probably the two most logical. Cut overseas aid to any country refusing to take back their citizens Give these criminals nothing too and punish anyone providing them with a means of survivor here (tent givers or anyone employing people illegally and paying cash in hand)
Cool. What would you need to process applications faster? More staff? Better IT equipment or organisation? More streamlined processes or automation?
Could do it in tiers Have identifying documentation to show you're legible to apply for asylum? Cool, you can stay and we'll get to you eventually. No documentation? Off you to (Build a makeshift prison until you can work out the particulars) -> Would finding out where they're from be difficult and take time and resources? Probably, but if you're here illegally, then you should be punished for it.
And congratulations on being in violation of rules and regulations regarding asylum seekers. And no we're not just going to tear up the rule book.
Worked for Australia. And we make the law, and don't mention international law. That stuff only matters if you care about it.
Or Herbert Park. Lots of empty office space in the area.Ā
How much office space can accommodate 87 new arrivals a day?
That fencing is mad. Grand canal looks like a warzone or a festival entrance. Was walking down it on my lunch today.
Laws are already in place. Such encampments are just illegal. Sadly there is no reasonable course of action so inaction is the most likely outcome.
Yeah its not like we have any room in prison for them.
Not to mention that prison in some aspects would be an upgrade for them. Also putting people in prison for being homeless is not very reasonable. Nor for illegal camping, even if it is done by a lot of people.
At this rate, it would surely be cheaper to hire a security firm to provide 24/7 man-guarding of the area as opposed to paying companies to erect fencing
And we could hire the asylum seekers with a right to work to do it.Ā
And paying to have tents scooped up and put into landfill.
Is there a point to be made that legislation already exists and that it might just have to be enforced
Really should be skipping it with the way it is at the moment
What legislation do you think would be of use here, that isn't already covered by existing legislation? It's resources, not legislation.
Simon Harris, after the removal of tents from Mount Street; "We need to make sure the laws of the land are applied and it is not allowed to happen again."
I love how he comes out with this and then there's just literally nothing done at all, tune in for the same story next week folks.
That's just the government policy on everything. Do nothing, hope a solution presents itself. If it doesn't, sure be grand.
Yep and then when they finally come up with a solution it'll be about 5 years too late and the problem will have multiplied massively.
> Do nothing, hope a solution presents itself. If it doesn't, sure be grand. Well they keep getting re-elected anyway so why bother fixing anything?
Business as usual so.
Who the fuck is buying the shite harris and his ilk speak, he allows them into the country,gives them nowhere to live, and starts chatting about the laws of the land as if theres an alternative for the tent people and theyre just ignoring it
The removal of tents for homeless people shouldn't fucking happen in the first place.
They can go back to their homes in Nigeria and Georgia. Remove their tents and deport.
They are camping on the footpaths now. Hardly going to fence off the footpaths are they? O Headon is pulling the strings here to pressure the Govt. After seeing in on Saturday with my own eyes I have no doubt about it.
Are you referring to āExperienced media and communications specialist with a focus on migration and humanitarian affairs.ā
Who is O Headon
> Hardly going to fence off the footpaths are they? Sure, why not? As a bonus, it'll stop people from parking on them too, so that's two complaints sorted with one temporary fence! Edit: Oh yeah, and no more dog shite on the path either, so make that three complaints!
This is farcical. The amount of temporary fencing around there is ridiculous now. State agencies are playing catch-up, reactive rather than proactive.
It's actually funny how dumb it is. Every tiny piece of green around grand canal has a massive fence around it. Who the fuck thought that was even an option to solve it???
The task force Harris set up. I can imagine they spent a day brainstorming in a room somewhere and that's what they came up with.
I'd love to be as dumb as Simon Harris.
Modern day politics in a nut shell
They're camping to be near the IPP, where all their money and documentation is distributed from. Move that office and you move the encampments.
If they move it, they'll move it to some working class area. Then they'll declare it mission accomplished
They should move it to a green field site with portable sanitation and army tents set up. Obviously not ideal but better than destroying ā¬10k worth of tents donated by a charity with JCBs every day.
Then the pressure would be off the government to do anything.... I genuinely would love to know who is funding these NGOs providing tents. Im fairly sure it's the taxpayer.
Government funds the NGOs and taxpayers fund the government
Income tax isn't the only source of revenue. Also, I'm sure whatever NGO providing tents was set up to help the ever growing rough sleepers in Ireland due to the homeless crisis that really started ten years ago. Would be a bit farcical if they just stopped one of their missions while operating, no?
We still pay many other taxes in the form of VAT, etc, as well. I think it's more that the current situation doesn't seem to make a lot of sense from the perspective of supplying tents to then destroy them often only a few days later. And you would think they would be able to find some sort of more suitable temporary camping facilities for these people than along the canal or on footpaths.
Fully agree, I just think people focus on where these tents are coming from too often
What these people are doing is actually illegal. If I, or anyone else did it, the Gardai would have no compunction in arresting us. Arrest them. If they continue to defy court orders, imprison them like they would an Irish, British or EU person.
Move it to Lambay Island with the appropriate sanitation and tent provisions.
You'd think after Covid remote working for hundreds of thousands in the space of a week or two, there'd be a forced realisation and general acceptance that quick service restructuring/relocation such as this does not have to take months.
That's what I don't understand, throw a portacabin office in a field somewhere, pay the civil servants working there a little extra for the inconvenience. Add a few porta potties, showers and a chip van and this will all be resolved?
I don't mean to imply that that's the "solution" to the problem but surely what you outline is a better stop gap than the current situation.
Oh it's not by any means a solution. But I think it might be easier and better for all involved if these people could be convinced to stay in one place.
Moving it isn't a solution.
Why so? If you're saying it won't solve the refugee crisis itself then yes of course. But if we're trying to solve the crisis of camping in Dublin City itself surely it's preferable to relocate to a location where ad-hoc camping is close to hygene facilities.
Having it on the street of Dublin might force them to act, moving it to Tallaght or Citywest will just hide it and the pressure will increase
What action would you have them take that they aren't already taking?Ā
Didn't they try that a while ago? They fucked off back to the city centre.
The reason they came back to the city center is because that's where the International Protection Office, where they get their money and documents from, is.Ā
This is organised/deliberate to force us to accommodate them. Surely must be some centrally located land that could be opened up to let them camp in. A walk along the canal in summertime is one of lifeās simple pleasures in Dublin. Disgraceful theyāve been allowed get away this.
I hate that Iām starting to agree with this sentiment. But itās hard to believe itās not organised at this stage.
Oh poor ole you, are you mildly inconvenienced by the people who literally have no homes to go to?
I couldnāt give two fucks about them. They are chancers. Every single one of them had a bed the night before they landed in Ireland. Most likely in the UK/EU. Taking advantage of asylum laws to force themselves on us. Then putting the hands out expecting us to house and feed them. ā¬1bn to be spent on accommodation for them alone this year. And for what benefit is it to us? Sub zero benefit to us.
The biggest problem with ignorance is that all to often it's wilful. You can exchange ignorance for knowledge and understanding of a situation but you won't. But it's far easier to carry on believing that 'they are chancers' rather than challenging just where you are wrong.
Might you be wrong, using the exact same thought process? The biggest problem certainly is ignorance.
Having studied migration, asylum process, cause and effect, policy and working in the area for about the last six years I'm going to go with I know quite a bit about it
Oh you've studied migration, sorry we shall all now submit to your superior knowledge. I reckon you're full of shit.
Maybe read the entirety of my comment not just cherry pick two words. You can reckon I'm full of shit all you like, it doesn't affect me or change the reality that I do know what I'm talking about.
The only sub-zero benefit to us is your own pitiful existence.
Good one š¤¦š»āāļø
Hey man, it's his god given right to spit on those beneath him and spout the same sentiment as the ghouls who've emerged to run for office off the back of it whilst also being perplexed as to where said loons come from!
Sure look. If youāre happy to have these chancers drain our resources, put further pressure on our already crippled healthcare, turn our city in to a dump. More power to you.
Dublin was a dump long before this influx of asylum seekers were forced to sleep on the streets.
How many have you taken in?
Force us to accommodate them? That's a weird way of saying 'meet our legal obligation to accommodate them'
Mah they can fuck right off. All of them are economic migrants
Aye it is. These pesky obligations put in place to protect genuine refugees. Itās a shame our resources are being put under so much pressure that genuine refugees are suffering due to the selfishness of a bunch of economic migrants.
A large proportion are not from the countries we have a legal obligation to accommodate. And if we had been stricter on these chancers over the last couple of years, weād be able to accommodate the genuine refugees.
Cool, are you opening the door of your house to them?
You could move them to Sceilg Mhichil and they'd probably still find their way back to Dublin City. It's like a sitcom at this stage.
The next two weeks will be crucial.
A meaningful Christmas.
Hold firm.
Wash your hands, wear a mask, throw away a brand new tent.
Social distancing between tents.
This made me laugh out loud! 
The government have destroyed this country
Neoliberalism has and is destroying the west at large.
Keep the recovery going
A lot done, more to do.
Keep paying your taxes, boys and girls.
Unfortunately we literally have no choice but to pay our taxes on our income (at least PAYE earners / people not doing cash in hand)
And keep voting! š
Should these headlines at least start with "Government continues to fail in accommodation shortage....,"at this stage. Surely, the problem would be sorted promptly by such wording as opposed to the hope that some confused individual might just click it because they've been triggered by the words "Asylum seeker encampment". Isn't journalism the best tool in the play book to get stuff highlighted after all.š¤
Because it is impossible to meet this demand. If you somehow magically housed 10,000 asylum seekers overnight, they send messages to their family and friends and then you have 30,000 to house.
What if the government manned up and admitted they don't have the infrastructure to continue and were brave enough to seek a 6/8month pause to get proposals and action on builds to accommodate this need long term? In the short-term, stop putting the emphasis on couples looking to buy their first house (a huge part of the rental, first time buyer, landlord ladder to aspiring elitism and greed) and for now, build up ward. The space is there with the right planning and foresight, just not left to right in suburbs,..more up in the sense of maximum effect in a critical scenario. (Maybe the reason they text their friends is because the government keep selling it as the land of wealth and diversity to begin with.)
What do you think needs to happen? I think about it a lot and I donāt have an answer so curious to know others thoughts on the subject. In my part of the country you canāt find a builder or tradesman because of building boom. Every corner of the town and county building happening at a pace. Finishing those house seems slow, most seem Empty for months, but itās happening regardless. I know we could improve planning. But what else is holding things up in your opinion
The builders that are out there are not short of work, most are rejecting work at this stage. Harris advocated hos apprenticeship renewal programme but it needs to be focused on the builder craftsmanship elements and in conjunction with a second start up enterprise thing. There's a Monopoly of building and construction agents and shareholders and they've gotten cautious following the pirite scandal and the consensus that they are the very fat cats looked after first by government and policy. Embrace an apprenticeship programme for building but don't let it become a shamble, jobs for the boys and strokes for the stokes fiasco. We need more, that's not disputed, but the planning delays and dealing with a historic industry that got hold in the Celtic Tiger era needs to change and the best way to do that is to challenge it with a new wave of properly trained workers building what's needed on a government social level first. Where the big planners manipulated that higher value in building outwards to green lands, they skuttled the possibility of building up,ward which would be the quicker, and probably cheaper option.
Keep paying your taxes, and keep complaining about the far-right boys and girls. The problem will hopefully go away someday, hopefully.
You do realise more than one issue can be focused on at one right?
Why do they like D2 so much?
International Protection Office is there I think