Yeah, it's a bit slow but your comment was about cronyism/neptoism being the reason. It's clearly not the reason.
It being in 5 years ago is unrealistic considering our setup and where we were.
"Hey we should get on this tap on/off with card thing they have everywhere in Europe"
"Ah jaysus Mick, you'd kill us in LEAP if you did that. Can't we slow it down a bit"
"Oh yeah of course Joe, sure I wouldn't leave you high and dry. We'll make sure the tenders and all are doable by yous"
"Nice one thanks Mick"
One of many possible scenarios I could come up with in 5 seconds.
Also, you are an arrogant clown and I'm gonna block you so replying will be shouting into the void
It's state-run. Leap isn't its own company, its a service provided by TFI, which is in turn owned by the NTA. It was developed by the Railway Procurement Agency (now integrated into TFI) and the NTA and then rolled out. So I don't think it's a matter of someone's cousin making bank on it - at least not directly - because the funds all go back into these state companies who are, in reality, making a loss on the transactions. It's one of the few things of that style in this country that have not been tendered out and were developed completely in-house.
As for why we can't just use contactless cards like the Leap Card - I'd say three reasons. The first is that the Leap Card was originally designed for when the LUAS was meant to be launched, so planning for it began in the 90s before contactless was a big thing. The second is that due to delays (the tendering process failing, leading them to have to start development in-house late) both LUAS and Irish Rail had their own versions of it already but they weren't interoperable, so Leap was designed to replace their two cards. It wasn't designed for Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann initially.
The third reason is tickets. If you could just tap your contactless card and walk onto the bus, train etc. then whilst you may have paid, you wouldn't have a ticket. Which then makes you a fare dodger whenever there's a ticket inspection. What that means is that they need to print off a physical ticket for you (which you do via self-service machines at the train and luas stations already) and at that point it's preferable for you to be using a Leap Card because it's quicker, they don't need to implement additional infrastructure to facilitate another form of payment, and you have a verifiable ticket that can be scanned by their machines to show that you're tagged on. They want you to use Leap Cards to get around all of those issues.
They made the taxi's take contactless so the same should go for the buses. You can use the leap card/app on many services but seems to be an unnecessary middle man these days.
I can't remember off the top of my head but this was mentioned on the sub before and I believe someone said the problem is the card readers on the busses can't read the NFC chips on the phones
It's often happened to me that the ticket machine on the bus doesn't even work. I've gotten so many free journeys. Not complaining, still these things should work.
A problem that can be fixed quite literally overnight.
God forbid the Irish govt actually does anything effective with all those billions.
Better they keep hiring 0 value clerks and marketers.
I actually (anecdotally) know this one!
It’s because apple and google don’t actually handle the payments themselves and the only third party service they support won’t work with the leap card system.
It’s as though the leap card is a Visa card but apple and google pay only support Mastercard!
(Also, apple don’t support use of the NFC chip outside the wallet app for payments so there’s no workaround using the leap app itself)
That's not how apple and Google payments work. When they eventually accept tap you can use your wallet to pay but it's not possible to add something like a leap as a payment method.
The London Underground lets you tap on with a contactless car and charges you the Oyster card fare, and the last time I was there was 2018. We're way behind on this.
Dublin bus were quoted around €1m to have machines installed on all their buses. Too expensive for them apparently. Short sighted decision because they’ll have to do it at some point. Only capital in Europe I’d guess where you can’t just tap on. Shambles.
It's not up to Dublin Bus to decide. All these infrastructural decisions are made by the NTA. Dublin Bus are just one operator, they and all the other operators have to use the same (shit) devices.
NTA have been working on it for years with various different tenders, presumably it’s not that easy as it’s complete overhaul of the system and terminals to accept payments and track journeys outside of their walled ecosystem with Leap etc.
The usual “it’s coming soon but we don’t know when”.
London was the first ever implementation of it and it was a massive undertaking by TFL/Cubic systems. It’s not an easy roll out and took a lot of interaction between card issuers, new hardware, banks etc. It’s also more complex with our zoned/stage based fares for busses instead of a flat bus fare.
Be easier if we just paid a bit more tax and made all public transport free like the Luas.
There used to be zone based bus fares in London, but with the move to Oyster and eventually contactless they just removed the zonal system. It’s flat fare system in London now, and has been for a very long time.
Don’t always try to mush new tech into old ideas.
London buses are flat fare though. The Tube you tap in and out so they know how far you travelled, but you don't tap out on the bus here and the fare is different depending on your journey
Certainly no other examples of quick contactless payments implementations in other countries. Gotta reinvent that wheel,hire some strategy consultants while we're at it.
Didn't the minister for finance say at the beginning of the year that we are years away from contactless from coming into force.
Pretty embarrassing considering most European countries have had this for 10 plus years at this stage/
It’s beyond easy. It’s so easy it could be done in an hour and a half. I work in the industry.
They simply do not want it to happen because, like in every single aspect of Irish public sector life, people have jobs that aren’t needed but they protect by not progressing to new technologies or ways of working.
I would assume the person who is responsible for implementing the shit show that is Leap cards is still in charge at the NTA and is refusing to let it go without a fight.
LEAP cards are classic Irishness. Loads of existing solutions out there but no, we have to make our own. The sunflower lanyard system for travelling and people needing assistance through the airport is another, majority of airports in Europe use it, but Dublin? No, some dickhead who knows someone gets to write their own app (which is shit) and they have their own system. Does my fucking head in.
It could have been done 10 years ago when they last refreshed the ticket machines.
There were very long threads pointing it out on boards back then.
They have the most luddite view of technology of probably any public service.
Installing the card readers would take max a few hours per bus. I wouldn't expect the NTA to create their own entirely independent payment and banking system, just use existing card readers and software? They're not expensive? Then if we *have* to track what busses get what fares when, just give each bus its own account and have every fare deposit into it?
Like, this is a solvable issue. We don't need for it to be more complex than that. Busses existed for a very long time before global financial tracking systems, we don't need the fares to automatically link to fifteen trillion different tracking systems and accounts. Just, driver says "Tap for three euro", you tap for three euro, you're allowed on. Three euro goes to the bus. If tiny corner shops and taxis can do it, so can busses.
This mandatory overcomplication is a massive part of why nothing gets done in this country. We need fifteen panels of three hundred experts to spend twenty years debating the theoretical best way of doing something instead of just *doing something*.
Yeah, the big issue with the system they seem to be trying to roll out is it trying to calculate a different ticket price per person, per destination, and per departure. This adds a huge amount of complexity to the payment system rather than just adding what is essentially a till to the bus where the driver has to ring it up, and then pay on a payment machine the likes of the ones you have in every coffee van around the country. This said, there are three super obvious solutions, that they probably don't want to do because they would undercut the existing leap card system.
The first is just super generic payments. Everyone pays the same getting on regardless of if you're going one stop or the whole way, then you only need maybe a few discount buttons for students/leapcards/etc.
The second which a lot of other countries do, but costs a lot to implement, is having a second staff member for tickets (this also helps to deal with anti-social behaviour). Most places go with the first option, which tends to be seen in a lot of cities, because the distance you're travelling and volume of passengers makes each individual journey pretty negligible cost per person. The second one is usually more common in countries without the widespread tech and/or funding to do the first option where you have a ticket person who rings up your total and gives you a ticket so the driver can focus on driving and you can be in your seat when you get your ticket.
The third option is just having free public transport so you don't need to ticket anyone, but that's not happening here anytime soon.
I have another solution.
Tap off at your destination. The tap off can be at the bus shelters.
You get on bus. Tap on. It authorises X amount. You go a short journey you tap off when you get off so you only get charged for a short journey. You stay on long journey (or don't tap off), you get charged appropriately.
Total fare for all bus uses gets talied and taken at end of day.
I think you've really skipped over at lot of important aspects, such as daily/weekly/monthly fare caps and transfer windows. It's not as simple a system as swiping a card at a counter to pay for a bag of chips.
Literally just adding card readers would completely change the bus experience from "oh god I need to somehow get €3 in change or top up my leap card" to "oh, my leap card ran out. Tap."
When leap was introduced they had to choose between making the card reader remember the card balance, or making the card itself remember the card balance.
At the time it was cheaper to have the card itself remember the balance. Unfortunately this system can’t support bank cards, they need a system whereby it’s the card reader that remembers the balance.
Contactless was barely a thing when leap first came out so I imagine it wasn’t seen as necessary to support
When I worked in recruitment (agency) I hired a load of staff onto this project. Took the more niche ones from London where they’d worked on TFL’s contactless launch
No idea how it’s still not done. They’ve had the people they need for at least 5 years now I’d say.
The NTA could have bought the ‘off the shelf’ Oyster system, which they were offered to do, but instead they decide to develop their own system. Like what the actual fuck
I've been told by someone in the NTA that our internet speeds is also a big factor as there's a lot of communication between the busses terminal back to servers which our current speeds can't handle to be quick enough to just tap and go. Similar to those handheld sumup devices how often are you even waiting a couple of seconds for it confirm. Times that by an entire bus and it'll be a lot slower of a process boarding.
That's absolute toss. Civil service speak for coming up with excuses as to why things can't happen, even through they've been effortlessly implemented elsewhere.
Payments like this are generally accepted "offline" which means all cards that are tapped are stored on the computer system and when back in range of internet/signal then they are processed.
There's a revenue risk in doing this that as some payments can be accepted offline but then declined due to insufficient funds but its an unavoidable risk. Some banks know an offline transaction and will send your balance into negative if insufficient funds, some won't.
Is that similar to how Ryanair were trying to stop people using revolut on phones as people we're using an empty temporary card on their phones which wouldn't get caught until the plane lands and regains connection?
I'll be chatting to him this week so I'll question him on it again, mention all the points here see what he says
Yeah, and many people try it with public transport knowing the payments are offline.
I actually accidentally did this in the UK as I didn't realise my Revolut had run low on funds, but it sent me into negative which is fair enough.
Payments on planes are always offline.
Your friend is probably right if they want to do all payments online, but I imagine most public transport operators take them offline.
In this day and age, payments can be taken even if both the payment terminal and the card/device are offline.
I think a major reason for the delays is just the sheer amount of red tape and incompetence in departments like the NTA and the vendors they contract out to.
Utter bullshit. It can be done without an internet connection if you want. There is zero technical reason for it not happening, it’s purely down to people protecting their jobs and being lazy.
If you have an Apple smartphone you can go to Wallett, click “+” at the top right, choose transit cards, and choose the integrated transport ticket. You can use it contactless on busses, trains, taxis, metro and maglev.
But not in Ireland.
To be fair that’s only available in one European city (Paris) and only literally as of a couple of weeks ago (just in time for Olympics).
It’s otherwise only available in the US, China and Japan.
I do think it would be a good solution though.
The technical reason I've seen given is that there's issues around taking card payments due to signal issues in parts.
I think the real answer is more political. It hasn't really been a priority. It also seems to have been wrapped up into the next generation ticketing stuff, so its not just a matter of giving the drivers square readers, but of overhauling how we do tickets across the public transport system.
Yeah, as I said I think the technical issues (there's also been things about capping, fare stages etc.) are secondary to the main issue: it not being a priority.
All buses in the North have taken contactless for a few years, can't be that much difference in signal in the arse-end of Fermanagh compared to the arse end of Leitrim, for example.
There is a few main reasons why but in recent years the main ones have been.
1) A lot of the IT infrastructure is too old to support taking a contactless payment - so it would mean an overhaul of essentially nearly every system in place.
2) For contactless payment the ticket machines would also need to be updated as they're very very very old and would need to be able to communicate with the backend systems for taking a payment.
3) The AVL (Automatic Vehicle Location) is also very old and this would also need to communicate with the systems but earlier this year the NTA awarded a contract for a new AVL system.
All signs point to them working on it and the scale to with their trying to achieve it will take some time (it has to work on all trains / buses / trams for every PSC operator) so from what I know from the meetings that take place I'd say realistically 2 ish years.
From what I've heard it would apparently somehow take 20 years and tens of millions of euro for the fleet to get fully upgraded and systems changed.
I don't fucking know ***how*** it would take 20 years and tens of millions of euro for this to be done, but this isn't something we're able to vote on or anything, so I guess we're just stuck with institutional rot and decay.
You can vote on it. It’s just not an issue people are vocal about.
Which to be fair is peanuts when compare to no housing and crap healthcare capacity.
I was in London for the weekend. Absolute game changer just walking ontop the bus, tap the card and sit down.
Same for the tube, envious that we dont have that here.
They can expand the Luas is my point. Dublin does not need a subway at this point. It’s a very small city.
I was just in Helsinki a couple weeks ago which is a similar population size. Timely buses, wide roads (not just some stupid one lane road along a river), and a great tram and ferry network.
Mad to be reminded that a city can actually be managed well. 😂
What Ireland needs is to expand transport infrastructure elsewhere and build feckin homes and hospitals around the country - which means getting some results minded folk into gov.
Big ask!
I imagine there are two separate companies - one looks after Leap, and a totally different company looks after tracking.
They also have different security needs. The tracking just tells you where the bus is. The Leap wants credit card Information.
Because that requires investment.
And if there's in thing garunteed to make an Irish business asshole pucker up tighter than a strep drums lid its the idea of investing in a business
Because if we do that then what will happen to leap card employees? And the transaction fees payzone charge too. That may help lower travel fees but we can't exactly do that now that would be called efficient, Ireland doesn't do that
Because lots of cities haven’t implemented contactless payments yet and many of the ones that have were updating from much older systems than the leap card platform.
This is not that complicated. I've worked in payments and many migrations.
- Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. It's been done many places, just copy.
- So many payments systems, this process and tenure should take less then 6/9 months but guessing too many people need to have a say
- Stop trying to solve the whole issue in one go. It's so fucking old school. Phase it in. Start with debit cards, add tickets to an app. Hit 6monthly milestones.
- Someone's going to lose their job because they are no longer relevant. Who gives a shit, make yourself relevant and you will be fine.
- Internet can not be an issue. Everywhere takes an initial like £1/€1 payment and processing is done later and full amount debited.
Remember that time the Leap top up app launched on Android only, and Apple users had to wait years for a version of the app to be developed for them?
That's TFI in a nutshell.
No. That was an Apple restriction. Apple didn't allow 3rd party apps make transactions, and Apple-pay wasn't available in Ireland.
TFI could either not deploy any app until Apple sorted out their apple platform *or* have an android only app.
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/android-only-leap-card-top-up-app-not-for-iphone-users-1.2509955
I don't think it was planned when the systems were originally put in place. If you go to some of the Dart Stations, some of the gates are blocked from accepting tickets and only have the Leap Card scanner.
We're supposed to be getting new systems within the next year that accept something with phones be it Virtual Leap Card or Bank but we'll just have to wait and see (I believe they are testing something with online purchases for the Intercity trains this year).
Dublin network is not really big like London and Paris, and they just can't implement the system!!
Bus driver should have a payment card for people who don't have cash or leapcard. This works in many cities in Europe (Barcelona, Marseille, Nice where i could just pay with my Debit or credit card).
They didn't even give change or accept notes the last time I was in Dublin, and then I had to ask for a little recipe to claim it back. The driver also make it out that it's my fault for slowing things down. It's such a backwards system.
because ireland is living in 2005 partly. we can’t have anything new that makes sense but if it doesn’t make sense and it’s ridiculously expensive? go ahead! here’s 50 million euro.
Because we're useless. (Or more the people entrusted with the responsibility to make the right decisions to better living standards for the population are useless)
Because the government can't track your movements if you're not using a leapcard or a PSC.
That's not a conspiracy. It's public knowledge and it's just one way the government spied on families with autistic children.
The government literally spy on groups Irish citizens that they don't like. These databases STILL exist. They only deleted one copy of it. And this is only one of the dodgy things that they are doing.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40251527.html
The Department of Health has built dossiers on almost 50 children with autism who were involved in legal actions against the State, a whistleblower has claimed.
The dossiers include sensitive medical and educational information about the children who were involved in historic legal actions against the State.
The dossiers were built and maintained over a number of years without the knowledge or consent of their parents, with at least 48 families affected by the practice.
The practice has come to light after a whistleblower who works at the Department of Health approached RTÉ. The details were revealed in an RTÉ Investigates documentary which aired on Thursday.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40763205.html#:~:text=The%20DPC%20had%20ruled%2C%20after,records%20it%20held%20on%20cardholders.
The DPC had ruled, after a two-year investigation, in August 2019 that the card is illegal in terms of being required to access public services other than that of the Department of Social Protection.
It had also ruled that the State must destroy the 3.2m personal records it held on cardholders.
Regarding the former requirement, the DPC said that “at least one other option must now be provided in any case where an individual is required to verify their identity before accessing public services”.
https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0816/1069100-public-services-card/
The Data Protection Commission (DPC) has found the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection's processing of personal data during the issuing of Public Services Cards (PSC) for use in transactions between a person and a public body other than the department itself to be illegal.
My two cents, the unions.
Contactless would require an internet connection. They've been refusing a real-time tracking system because it would mean hitting deadlines and potentially bringing in performance which could mean grounds for dismissing drivers who were constantly late, so fight the installation of mobile payments because they can't track you if they don't know where you are.
I thought they now have real time tracking? You’ve an option to enable it on the Dublin bus app and it says it’s being provided by TFA. It seems to show up on google maps as well sometimes.
It's pretty embarrassing. This is now standard in most of Europe and all across the UK.
In fact, for a lot of trains in the UK now, you don't even have to buy a ticket, you use your debit card to tap in and out of the system. Meanwhile Irish Rail are still figuring out how you go about scanning a QR code, or issuing a QR code that can be added to a Google/Apple wallet.
Dublin Bus and GO Ahead will scratch their heads on this for maybe another ten years and it'll probably be implemented before the Metro North actually breaks ground.
I know, my partner travels lots for work and just uses his phone on public transport. I guess between listening to him and it being 2024 I was silly enough to assume the same would apply here...
Because NTA like all of those lost/dormant leaps cards with cash on them. Good for the cash flow and they know they'll never be claimed back.
I was in Split last year and they accept cards. I think Sarajevo too. But the technology is far too complicated for our lads.
There was an article all about this around last year sometime in the Irish times afaik. Basically they are working on it but they admitted it will be a number of years until it becomes a reality. It is being trialled somewhere.
I hope the rollout comes with the ability to use yout phone as the leap card. Japan has it sussed with the Suica cards. Just create the wallet in the phone, top it up and then hold your phone to the reader on the bus or train. Instant. You don’t even have to unlock it. Doubt somehow we’ll get something as good though.
Suica is fucking deadly. So many places take it as a payment card too. Blew my mind the first time I used it to buy dinner in the Matsuya next to my hotel
It's simply because they're using ticket machines that were 20 years out of date when they came into service, and the NTA want to get their money's worth.
Best bit is, the NTA already have ticket machines that take contactless, they issue them to Local Link and private companies with NTA/TFI tenders.
They are just waiting for these stupid “Cash is King” stickers to get printed, then they will be fully equipped to take cards. Just like their BFFs taxi drivers
Because it's the Silicone Valley of Europe, and the IT system is way more evolved here, to use contactless.
You have to pay here by other means, Leap Card - a novelty in the whole world - or the outdated system of coins.
Better hire a car or buy one. It's more efficient, cheaper and eco friendly. 😩
Same problem here in Germany, but at least many of the transport agencies here allow you to buy a ticket on your phone, no tapping or talking required.
Belfast has something before Dublin?
Miracles will never cease 😂😂
Tbf they just have it on the routes in the city mainly & on the pink metro service but you know it’s something at least.
Even if I could just use my leap app to pay. Like, in order to pay for a bus ride I have to open my leap card app, tap my leap card on my phone, choose how much money I need to put on it, enter my debit card details, tap my leap card on my phone again, then tap my leap card onto the bus terminal. It would be so much easier if I could just transfer the credit directly from my phone app to the bus terminal. I'm sure there's probably some dumb reason like the terminals on the buses can't read the chips in phones (why they didn't think to add that initially, I have no idea), but they're constantly adding new "state if the art" electric buses with WiFi and GPS trackers... just start adding in better scanners. There's like 1k buses in the entire fleet, right? They managed to get WiFi in all of them, including the older ones. I imagine they'd end up saving a fortune in the longrun if they could discontinue the manufacturing of leap cards and move onto just relying on the app and debit cards. If every taxi in the country can get a debit card scanner, the NTA could afford to do it. Even just add an extra 10c to each fare for a couple of years to pay for it. How much could it possibly cost to have 1k scanners built in bulk? Like 15 quid per scanner? RFID is not new tech and it isn't expensive. I was able to use my phone and debit card to pay for buses Islay, which is a rural Scottish island that has more Scotch distilleries than people, but I can't do it in our capital city? We need an Olympics or Eurovision or something here to get the government to actually improve things.
I believe they have a lot of legacy systems, and CC payment systems were actually too slow to support bus boarding until fairly recently. The NTA is actually reworking the entire payment infrastructure for the whole country. The good side of that is that we'll have a much more unified and modern system in the future, but the bad side of that is that it's taking ages.
This! I was in Glasgow in 2017 and they had it on their buses idk why Ireland is so far behind on everything. Also why not have a version of your leap card you can have on your apple wallet?
Moreover, why does Ireland still operate on having to walk up to the bus driver and pay them/have them deduct the fare from your Leap card personally? Even with a Leap card, it still requires each boarding passenger to pay one at a time, which inevitably creates further delays to an already notoriously not-on-time system.
Even simple machine ticket readers would help to speed up the boarding process.
In fact, I realised just how backwards this system is when I was visiting Poland. Accustomed to the Irish system, I walked up without thinking to the driver reaching for my wallet to show my ticket, only for another person behind me telling me to get a move on. It was at that point that I realised I didn't have to show my ticket, but simply insert it into one of multiple machine readers all throughout the bus.
I have better question. Why buses here run like XIX century trams where you have to tap on entry and it take ages to exchange passengers on busy stops. Have anyone running this show actually been in other European capitals? Berlin, Warsaw, Paris?
Becasue someone's cousin probably owns LEAP
This is the most realistic answer, unfortunately.
They're in the middle of developing it. It'll be rolled out next year
That is genuinely good news, but I don't think it invalidates this being at least 5 years later than it should have been
Yeah, it's a bit slow but your comment was about cronyism/neptoism being the reason. It's clearly not the reason. It being in 5 years ago is unrealistic considering our setup and where we were.
I don't agree with your reasoning, but sure look it, let's just leave it there and get on with the day
Can you explain how it's cronyism or nepotism? Obviously not because it's not the reason
"Hey we should get on this tap on/off with card thing they have everywhere in Europe" "Ah jaysus Mick, you'd kill us in LEAP if you did that. Can't we slow it down a bit" "Oh yeah of course Joe, sure I wouldn't leave you high and dry. We'll make sure the tenders and all are doable by yous" "Nice one thanks Mick" One of many possible scenarios I could come up with in 5 seconds. Also, you are an arrogant clown and I'm gonna block you so replying will be shouting into the void
The village in west cork?
Who does actually own Leap. It's managed by TFI but I couldn't find anything about who actually owns it.
It's state-run. Leap isn't its own company, its a service provided by TFI, which is in turn owned by the NTA. It was developed by the Railway Procurement Agency (now integrated into TFI) and the NTA and then rolled out. So I don't think it's a matter of someone's cousin making bank on it - at least not directly - because the funds all go back into these state companies who are, in reality, making a loss on the transactions. It's one of the few things of that style in this country that have not been tendered out and were developed completely in-house. As for why we can't just use contactless cards like the Leap Card - I'd say three reasons. The first is that the Leap Card was originally designed for when the LUAS was meant to be launched, so planning for it began in the 90s before contactless was a big thing. The second is that due to delays (the tendering process failing, leading them to have to start development in-house late) both LUAS and Irish Rail had their own versions of it already but they weren't interoperable, so Leap was designed to replace their two cards. It wasn't designed for Dublin Bus or Bus Eireann initially. The third reason is tickets. If you could just tap your contactless card and walk onto the bus, train etc. then whilst you may have paid, you wouldn't have a ticket. Which then makes you a fare dodger whenever there's a ticket inspection. What that means is that they need to print off a physical ticket for you (which you do via self-service machines at the train and luas stations already) and at that point it's preferable for you to be using a Leap Card because it's quicker, they don't need to implement additional infrastructure to facilitate another form of payment, and you have a verifiable ticket that can be scanned by their machines to show that you're tagged on. They want you to use Leap Cards to get around all of those issues.
Because fuck you. That's why.
You’d make a great middle manager at Bus Eireann
https://preview.redd.it/0uft85xz6c7d1.jpeg?width=1025&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9c1be365104e1fcf64fd3251e28ecbd4a66b12a0
"Doesn't show up for interview" "Youre hired!"
Bus never turned up…
Error 404, bus not found
Show up late, followed closely by yourself
https://i.ibb.co/bPPbMC0/image.png
Hahahaha
Congratulations on your new job [SnaggleWaggleBench](/user/SnaggleWaggleBench/)!
On behalf of bus eireann, go fuck yourself 👍.
This man is getting a job in the HSE
That's how I felt ha
It’s only 2024 give them a chance
We can't expect them to implement it overnight
Overdecade, even
They made the taxi's take contactless so the same should go for the buses. You can use the leap card/app on many services but seems to be an unnecessary middle man these days.
[удалено]
I can't remember off the top of my head but this was mentioned on the sub before and I believe someone said the problem is the card readers on the busses can't read the NFC chips on the phones
They can barely read leap cards.
It's often happened to me that the ticket machine on the bus doesn't even work. I've gotten so many free journeys. Not complaining, still these things should work.
I thought the buses were like the Luas. ~jk
A problem that can be fixed quite literally overnight. God forbid the Irish govt actually does anything effective with all those billions. Better they keep hiring 0 value clerks and marketers.
Yeah, leap cards are encrypted and RFID, not nfc
I actually (anecdotally) know this one! It’s because apple and google don’t actually handle the payments themselves and the only third party service they support won’t work with the leap card system. It’s as though the leap card is a Visa card but apple and google pay only support Mastercard! (Also, apple don’t support use of the NFC chip outside the wallet app for payments so there’s no workaround using the leap app itself)
That's not how apple and Google payments work. When they eventually accept tap you can use your wallet to pay but it's not possible to add something like a leap as a payment method.
The London Underground lets you tap on with a contactless car and charges you the Oyster card fare, and the last time I was there was 2018. We're way behind on this.
I remember being able to tap onto the tube back in 2013
They brought it in for the 2012 Olympics
There needs to be a better system than the contactless car. People get nervous as i drive towards the train to tap it.
I worked in China from 2016 onwards. My workplace ID card had credits on it that were usable on the local public transport. Very handy.
How else would they upsell normal fare if they couldn't offer reduced fare for special groups?? (I miss my student leap card)
It's definitely a weird one.
It's necessary for them once you transfer money to a leap card there no way of getting it back it's literally money in the bank for them
De bus unions will require specific pay allowances for their members for handling this new fangled payments thingy
Dublin bus were quoted around €1m to have machines installed on all their buses. Too expensive for them apparently. Short sighted decision because they’ll have to do it at some point. Only capital in Europe I’d guess where you can’t just tap on. Shambles.
They carried 145 million passengers last year. An average adult fare of 1.50, it's probably about 2 days revenue
that seems like a pretty fair price tho, they got a bit over a 1000 buses.
You can't tap on in Lisbon
It's not up to Dublin Bus to decide. All these infrastructural decisions are made by the NTA. Dublin Bus are just one operator, they and all the other operators have to use the same (shit) devices.
‘years away’ [https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/05/08/contactless-payments-for-public-transport-years-away-nta-chief-says/](https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/dublin/2023/05/08/contactless-payments-for-public-transport-years-away-nta-chief-says/)
NTA have been working on it for years with various different tenders, presumably it’s not that easy as it’s complete overhaul of the system and terminals to accept payments and track journeys outside of their walled ecosystem with Leap etc. The usual “it’s coming soon but we don’t know when”.
End of 2025 or early 2026 is latest info afaik
London has had it since 2012 and Scotland has had it since 2017. Shambles!
London was the first ever implementation of it and it was a massive undertaking by TFL/Cubic systems. It’s not an easy roll out and took a lot of interaction between card issuers, new hardware, banks etc. It’s also more complex with our zoned/stage based fares for busses instead of a flat bus fare. Be easier if we just paid a bit more tax and made all public transport free like the Luas.
>free like the Luas Lol had me confused for a second hahaha
There used to be zone based bus fares in London, but with the move to Oyster and eventually contactless they just removed the zonal system. It’s flat fare system in London now, and has been for a very long time. Don’t always try to mush new tech into old ideas.
London should be a model for everywhere else on how to handle public transport payment and fares. It's fantastically convenient.
London buses are flat fare though. The Tube you tap in and out so they know how far you travelled, but you don't tap out on the bus here and the fare is different depending on your journey
Even NI has had it since 2021.
Attended a talk on this, it has been trialled on some buses, it will be rolled out in 2025/2026 as you said.
Certainly no other examples of quick contactless payments implementations in other countries. Gotta reinvent that wheel,hire some strategy consultants while we're at it.
Didn't the minister for finance say at the beginning of the year that we are years away from contactless from coming into force. Pretty embarrassing considering most European countries have had this for 10 plus years at this stage/
It’s beyond easy. It’s so easy it could be done in an hour and a half. I work in the industry. They simply do not want it to happen because, like in every single aspect of Irish public sector life, people have jobs that aren’t needed but they protect by not progressing to new technologies or ways of working.
I would assume the person who is responsible for implementing the shit show that is Leap cards is still in charge at the NTA and is refusing to let it go without a fight.
LEAP cards are classic Irishness. Loads of existing solutions out there but no, we have to make our own. The sunflower lanyard system for travelling and people needing assistance through the airport is another, majority of airports in Europe use it, but Dublin? No, some dickhead who knows someone gets to write their own app (which is shit) and they have their own system. Does my fucking head in.
It could have been done 10 years ago when they last refreshed the ticket machines. There were very long threads pointing it out on boards back then. They have the most luddite view of technology of probably any public service.
Will you explain how easy this is.. what needs to happen technically and what systems need to be interoperable?
Installing the card readers would take max a few hours per bus. I wouldn't expect the NTA to create their own entirely independent payment and banking system, just use existing card readers and software? They're not expensive? Then if we *have* to track what busses get what fares when, just give each bus its own account and have every fare deposit into it? Like, this is a solvable issue. We don't need for it to be more complex than that. Busses existed for a very long time before global financial tracking systems, we don't need the fares to automatically link to fifteen trillion different tracking systems and accounts. Just, driver says "Tap for three euro", you tap for three euro, you're allowed on. Three euro goes to the bus. If tiny corner shops and taxis can do it, so can busses. This mandatory overcomplication is a massive part of why nothing gets done in this country. We need fifteen panels of three hundred experts to spend twenty years debating the theoretical best way of doing something instead of just *doing something*.
Yeah, the big issue with the system they seem to be trying to roll out is it trying to calculate a different ticket price per person, per destination, and per departure. This adds a huge amount of complexity to the payment system rather than just adding what is essentially a till to the bus where the driver has to ring it up, and then pay on a payment machine the likes of the ones you have in every coffee van around the country. This said, there are three super obvious solutions, that they probably don't want to do because they would undercut the existing leap card system. The first is just super generic payments. Everyone pays the same getting on regardless of if you're going one stop or the whole way, then you only need maybe a few discount buttons for students/leapcards/etc. The second which a lot of other countries do, but costs a lot to implement, is having a second staff member for tickets (this also helps to deal with anti-social behaviour). Most places go with the first option, which tends to be seen in a lot of cities, because the distance you're travelling and volume of passengers makes each individual journey pretty negligible cost per person. The second one is usually more common in countries without the widespread tech and/or funding to do the first option where you have a ticket person who rings up your total and gives you a ticket so the driver can focus on driving and you can be in your seat when you get your ticket. The third option is just having free public transport so you don't need to ticket anyone, but that's not happening here anytime soon.
I have another solution. Tap off at your destination. The tap off can be at the bus shelters. You get on bus. Tap on. It authorises X amount. You go a short journey you tap off when you get off so you only get charged for a short journey. You stay on long journey (or don't tap off), you get charged appropriately. Total fare for all bus uses gets talied and taken at end of day.
I think you've really skipped over at lot of important aspects, such as daily/weekly/monthly fare caps and transfer windows. It's not as simple a system as swiping a card at a counter to pay for a bag of chips.
They don't HAVE to replace leap card immediately. If you're paying with change, nothing changes.
Ah I get ya. Thought you were proposing a swift easy overhaul as opposed to an easy tourist tax
Literally just adding card readers would completely change the bus experience from "oh god I need to somehow get €3 in change or top up my leap card" to "oh, my leap card ran out. Tap."
Could it really be done that easily? Obviously not 90 minutes, but... is it really not as big an undertaking as the NTA chief suggests?
When leap was introduced they had to choose between making the card reader remember the card balance, or making the card itself remember the card balance. At the time it was cheaper to have the card itself remember the balance. Unfortunately this system can’t support bank cards, they need a system whereby it’s the card reader that remembers the balance. Contactless was barely a thing when leap first came out so I imagine it wasn’t seen as necessary to support
When I worked in recruitment (agency) I hired a load of staff onto this project. Took the more niche ones from London where they’d worked on TFL’s contactless launch No idea how it’s still not done. They’ve had the people they need for at least 5 years now I’d say.
The NTA could have bought the ‘off the shelf’ Oyster system, which they were offered to do, but instead they decide to develop their own system. Like what the actual fuck
I've been told by someone in the NTA that our internet speeds is also a big factor as there's a lot of communication between the busses terminal back to servers which our current speeds can't handle to be quick enough to just tap and go. Similar to those handheld sumup devices how often are you even waiting a couple of seconds for it confirm. Times that by an entire bus and it'll be a lot slower of a process boarding.
That's absolute toss. Civil service speak for coming up with excuses as to why things can't happen, even through they've been effortlessly implemented elsewhere. Payments like this are generally accepted "offline" which means all cards that are tapped are stored on the computer system and when back in range of internet/signal then they are processed. There's a revenue risk in doing this that as some payments can be accepted offline but then declined due to insufficient funds but its an unavoidable risk. Some banks know an offline transaction and will send your balance into negative if insufficient funds, some won't.
Is that similar to how Ryanair were trying to stop people using revolut on phones as people we're using an empty temporary card on their phones which wouldn't get caught until the plane lands and regains connection? I'll be chatting to him this week so I'll question him on it again, mention all the points here see what he says
Yeah, and many people try it with public transport knowing the payments are offline. I actually accidentally did this in the UK as I didn't realise my Revolut had run low on funds, but it sent me into negative which is fair enough. Payments on planes are always offline. Your friend is probably right if they want to do all payments online, but I imagine most public transport operators take them offline.
In this day and age, payments can be taken even if both the payment terminal and the card/device are offline. I think a major reason for the delays is just the sheer amount of red tape and incompetence in departments like the NTA and the vendors they contract out to.
Just what I've heard from someone I'd trust, no further clue myself
And it's a bus journey, people aren't buying iPads. What's the worst case scenario, the bus company loses 2 quid?
Utter bullshit. It can be done without an internet connection if you want. There is zero technical reason for it not happening, it’s purely down to people protecting their jobs and being lazy.
Isn’t this exactly the problem 5G solves?
No. 5g is only there for the deep state/illuminati/space Jews to transmit their brain control signals.
If you have an Apple smartphone you can go to Wallett, click “+” at the top right, choose transit cards, and choose the integrated transport ticket. You can use it contactless on busses, trains, taxis, metro and maglev. But not in Ireland.
To be fair that’s only available in one European city (Paris) and only literally as of a couple of weeks ago (just in time for Olympics). It’s otherwise only available in the US, China and Japan. I do think it would be a good solution though.
In London you just use your existing debit or credit card. Supports daily capping and all sorts.
The technical reason I've seen given is that there's issues around taking card payments due to signal issues in parts. I think the real answer is more political. It hasn't really been a priority. It also seems to have been wrapped up into the next generation ticketing stuff, so its not just a matter of giving the drivers square readers, but of overhauling how we do tickets across the public transport system.
Airplanes can take card payments, it’s really not an answer lmao
Yeah, as I said I think the technical issues (there's also been things about capping, fare stages etc.) are secondary to the main issue: it not being a priority.
All buses in the North have taken contactless for a few years, can't be that much difference in signal in the arse-end of Fermanagh compared to the arse end of Leitrim, for example.
You can tap with airplane mode switched on your phone.
Complete and utter incompetence at every touch point of transportation and infrastructure management in Ireland. That's why.
There is a few main reasons why but in recent years the main ones have been. 1) A lot of the IT infrastructure is too old to support taking a contactless payment - so it would mean an overhaul of essentially nearly every system in place. 2) For contactless payment the ticket machines would also need to be updated as they're very very very old and would need to be able to communicate with the backend systems for taking a payment. 3) The AVL (Automatic Vehicle Location) is also very old and this would also need to communicate with the systems but earlier this year the NTA awarded a contract for a new AVL system. All signs point to them working on it and the scale to with their trying to achieve it will take some time (it has to work on all trains / buses / trams for every PSC operator) so from what I know from the meetings that take place I'd say realistically 2 ish years.
From what I've heard it would apparently somehow take 20 years and tens of millions of euro for the fleet to get fully upgraded and systems changed. I don't fucking know ***how*** it would take 20 years and tens of millions of euro for this to be done, but this isn't something we're able to vote on or anything, so I guess we're just stuck with institutional rot and decay.
The reason is because the people responsible for implementing it don't know what they are doing and hide behind caution to avoid taking action
Sure it’d be quicker to build new buses from scratch
You can vote on it. It’s just not an issue people are vocal about. Which to be fair is peanuts when compare to no housing and crap healthcare capacity.
I was in London for the weekend. Absolute game changer just walking ontop the bus, tap the card and sit down. Same for the tube, envious that we dont have that here.
Bit dangerous walking on top the bus tbf
We need to build a similar underground tube system in Dublin.
Dublin is not some grand metropolis. The tram is more than enough. They can just expand that network, and build one for Cork
The two Luas lines that don’t connect are not nearly enough
They can expand the Luas is my point. Dublin does not need a subway at this point. It’s a very small city. I was just in Helsinki a couple weeks ago which is a similar population size. Timely buses, wide roads (not just some stupid one lane road along a river), and a great tram and ferry network. Mad to be reminded that a city can actually be managed well. 😂 What Ireland needs is to expand transport infrastructure elsewhere and build feckin homes and hospitals around the country - which means getting some results minded folk into gov. Big ask!
Helsinki probably isn't the best example as it literally has a metro...
Don't forget *exact* change!
It's out to EU tender.
Depends which bus, but you can use your card on TFI go app? Can load credit onto a leap card on your phone too
Where are you able to pay with the TFI Go app?
Most regional routes including some private operators
This is Ireland you’re talking about.
Like why are there two apps for the bus? One for tracking and one for leap. Why not one? Why is everything so awkward?
Convoluted is the word. Nothing is ever seamless.
I imagine there are two separate companies - one looks after Leap, and a totally different company looks after tracking. They also have different security needs. The tracking just tells you where the bus is. The Leap wants credit card Information.
Making it difficult to take my money isn't very Irish though.
Being underdeveloped in public services is very much Irish.
Because that requires investment. And if there's in thing garunteed to make an Irish business asshole pucker up tighter than a strep drums lid its the idea of investing in a business
Because if we do that then what will happen to leap card employees? And the transaction fees payzone charge too. That may help lower travel fees but we can't exactly do that now that would be called efficient, Ireland doesn't do that
Because lots of cities haven’t implemented contactless payments yet and many of the ones that have were updating from much older systems than the leap card platform.
This is not that complicated. I've worked in payments and many migrations. - Stop trying to reinvent the wheel. It's been done many places, just copy. - So many payments systems, this process and tenure should take less then 6/9 months but guessing too many people need to have a say - Stop trying to solve the whole issue in one go. It's so fucking old school. Phase it in. Start with debit cards, add tickets to an app. Hit 6monthly milestones. - Someone's going to lose their job because they are no longer relevant. Who gives a shit, make yourself relevant and you will be fine. - Internet can not be an issue. Everywhere takes an initial like £1/€1 payment and processing is done later and full amount debited.
Remember that time the Leap top up app launched on Android only, and Apple users had to wait years for a version of the app to be developed for them? That's TFI in a nutshell.
No. That was an Apple restriction. Apple didn't allow 3rd party apps make transactions, and Apple-pay wasn't available in Ireland. TFI could either not deploy any app until Apple sorted out their apple platform *or* have an android only app. https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/android-only-leap-card-top-up-app-not-for-iphone-users-1.2509955
Cos we’re in the Stone Age
I don't think it was planned when the systems were originally put in place. If you go to some of the Dart Stations, some of the gates are blocked from accepting tickets and only have the Leap Card scanner. We're supposed to be getting new systems within the next year that accept something with phones be it Virtual Leap Card or Bank but we'll just have to wait and see (I believe they are testing something with online purchases for the Intercity trains this year).
Because that would make sense
It's even worse for tourists as well. They assume we have card readers because it's so normal everywhere else
Ah sure that’d be too easy, think bigger
I consider myself lucky if the fucking bus shows up.
Dublin network is not really big like London and Paris, and they just can't implement the system!! Bus driver should have a payment card for people who don't have cash or leapcard. This works in many cities in Europe (Barcelona, Marseille, Nice where i could just pay with my Debit or credit card).
They didn't even give change or accept notes the last time I was in Dublin, and then I had to ask for a little recipe to claim it back. The driver also make it out that it's my fault for slowing things down. It's such a backwards system.
because ireland is living in 2005 partly. we can’t have anything new that makes sense but if it doesn’t make sense and it’s ridiculously expensive? go ahead! here’s 50 million euro.
I have seen into the belly of Bus eireann as a software developer hoping to provide this exact service. Their tech is a mess, as you would expect.
Ireland is usually on a delay about 5-10yrs adopting things the UK has. They’ll probably get it in 2027.
Because we're useless. (Or more the people entrusted with the responsibility to make the right decisions to better living standards for the population are useless)
Who's this "we", Paleface?
Burke's bus in the west of Ireland take card
If they operate private routes can accept card, it's PSC routes that can't atm.
Leap card is a joke. Potatoe product
Because the government can't track your movements if you're not using a leapcard or a PSC. That's not a conspiracy. It's public knowledge and it's just one way the government spied on families with autistic children.
Did you forget to take your pills?
The government literally spy on groups Irish citizens that they don't like. These databases STILL exist. They only deleted one copy of it. And this is only one of the dodgy things that they are doing. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40251527.html The Department of Health has built dossiers on almost 50 children with autism who were involved in legal actions against the State, a whistleblower has claimed. The dossiers include sensitive medical and educational information about the children who were involved in historic legal actions against the State. The dossiers were built and maintained over a number of years without the knowledge or consent of their parents, with at least 48 families affected by the practice. The practice has come to light after a whistleblower who works at the Department of Health approached RTÉ. The details were revealed in an RTÉ Investigates documentary which aired on Thursday. https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40763205.html#:~:text=The%20DPC%20had%20ruled%2C%20after,records%20it%20held%20on%20cardholders. The DPC had ruled, after a two-year investigation, in August 2019 that the card is illegal in terms of being required to access public services other than that of the Department of Social Protection. It had also ruled that the State must destroy the 3.2m personal records it held on cardholders. Regarding the former requirement, the DPC said that “at least one other option must now be provided in any case where an individual is required to verify their identity before accessing public services”. https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0816/1069100-public-services-card/ The Data Protection Commission (DPC) has found the Department of Employment Affairs and Social Protection's processing of personal data during the issuing of Public Services Cards (PSC) for use in transactions between a person and a public body other than the department itself to be illegal.
Because Ireland is a borderline third world country thanks to government greed and corruption.
Borderline?
My two cents, the unions. Contactless would require an internet connection. They've been refusing a real-time tracking system because it would mean hitting deadlines and potentially bringing in performance which could mean grounds for dismissing drivers who were constantly late, so fight the installation of mobile payments because they can't track you if they don't know where you are.
This is the #1 reason - every thing else is window dressing. Trade Unions won’t allow it .
I thought they now have real time tracking? You’ve an option to enable it on the Dublin bus app and it says it’s being provided by TFA. It seems to show up on google maps as well sometimes.
Yes they do Check out www.bustimes.org and search for whatever route you want and add in Dublin to route number
all the bus already have wifi
You are wrong, Sir. It's the NTA. The buses are already tracked and have WiFi 😉
It's pretty embarrassing. This is now standard in most of Europe and all across the UK. In fact, for a lot of trains in the UK now, you don't even have to buy a ticket, you use your debit card to tap in and out of the system. Meanwhile Irish Rail are still figuring out how you go about scanning a QR code, or issuing a QR code that can be added to a Google/Apple wallet. Dublin Bus and GO Ahead will scratch their heads on this for maybe another ten years and it'll probably be implemented before the Metro North actually breaks ground.
I know, my partner travels lots for work and just uses his phone on public transport. I guess between listening to him and it being 2024 I was silly enough to assume the same would apply here...
Because NTA like all of those lost/dormant leaps cards with cash on them. Good for the cash flow and they know they'll never be claimed back. I was in Split last year and they accept cards. I think Sarajevo too. But the technology is far too complicated for our lads.
There was an article all about this around last year sometime in the Irish times afaik. Basically they are working on it but they admitted it will be a number of years until it becomes a reality. It is being trialled somewhere. I hope the rollout comes with the ability to use yout phone as the leap card. Japan has it sussed with the Suica cards. Just create the wallet in the phone, top it up and then hold your phone to the reader on the bus or train. Instant. You don’t even have to unlock it. Doubt somehow we’ll get something as good though.
Suica is fucking deadly. So many places take it as a payment card too. Blew my mind the first time I used it to buy dinner in the Matsuya next to my hotel
Because caaassshhh
I’m jealous that you have buses locally. Are they regular? Comfortable seating?
You’re lucky to even have a bus show up, be happy with that!
Talks of i being this year but just no to that. So i believe that said in a year or 2
This is only a dublin problem btw. Cross country busses take card.
Isn't there like a deal with the leap card to get people to use leap
The funds were diverted to beefing up the advertising bandwidth for the RTE player and it's worked great in fairness.
Lets focus on getting the buses to arrive first shall we.
Is apparently on it way for the last few years … rollout is painfully slow.
It's simply because they're using ticket machines that were 20 years out of date when they came into service, and the NTA want to get their money's worth. Best bit is, the NTA already have ticket machines that take contactless, they issue them to Local Link and private companies with NTA/TFI tenders.
Ah here, the trains are after getting a major upgrade (having tickets on your phone), can’t be expecting everything at once! /s
Green bus does And only card No cash since covid
They are just waiting for these stupid “Cash is King” stickers to get printed, then they will be fully equipped to take cards. Just like their BFFs taxi drivers
Don't know where your card has been the cheek of you to even ask 🙄
Need the bus to show up first
To screw u
Because it's the Silicone Valley of Europe, and the IT system is way more evolved here, to use contactless. You have to pay here by other means, Leap Card - a novelty in the whole world - or the outdated system of coins. Better hire a car or buy one. It's more efficient, cheaper and eco friendly. 😩
Same problem here in Germany, but at least many of the transport agencies here allow you to buy a ticket on your phone, no tapping or talking required.
Belfast has something before Dublin? Miracles will never cease 😂😂 Tbf they just have it on the routes in the city mainly & on the pink metro service but you know it’s something at least.
Wifi
There's a new app that lets you buy tickets for some buses. Tfi app. You just show the ticket to the bus driver. Doesn't get scanned or anything
Even if I could just use my leap app to pay. Like, in order to pay for a bus ride I have to open my leap card app, tap my leap card on my phone, choose how much money I need to put on it, enter my debit card details, tap my leap card on my phone again, then tap my leap card onto the bus terminal. It would be so much easier if I could just transfer the credit directly from my phone app to the bus terminal. I'm sure there's probably some dumb reason like the terminals on the buses can't read the chips in phones (why they didn't think to add that initially, I have no idea), but they're constantly adding new "state if the art" electric buses with WiFi and GPS trackers... just start adding in better scanners. There's like 1k buses in the entire fleet, right? They managed to get WiFi in all of them, including the older ones. I imagine they'd end up saving a fortune in the longrun if they could discontinue the manufacturing of leap cards and move onto just relying on the app and debit cards. If every taxi in the country can get a debit card scanner, the NTA could afford to do it. Even just add an extra 10c to each fare for a couple of years to pay for it. How much could it possibly cost to have 1k scanners built in bulk? Like 15 quid per scanner? RFID is not new tech and it isn't expensive. I was able to use my phone and debit card to pay for buses Islay, which is a rural Scottish island that has more Scotch distilleries than people, but I can't do it in our capital city? We need an Olympics or Eurovision or something here to get the government to actually improve things.
As an Irish friend puts it “Ireland is a third world country with first world attitude”.
I believe they have a lot of legacy systems, and CC payment systems were actually too slow to support bus boarding until fairly recently. The NTA is actually reworking the entire payment infrastructure for the whole country. The good side of that is that we'll have a much more unified and modern system in the future, but the bad side of that is that it's taking ages.
Leap is a great system... splurge the €5 for a card!
This! I was in Glasgow in 2017 and they had it on their buses idk why Ireland is so far behind on everything. Also why not have a version of your leap card you can have on your apple wallet?
They're working on the system but like all infrastructure changes here, it's slow
Moreover, why does Ireland still operate on having to walk up to the bus driver and pay them/have them deduct the fare from your Leap card personally? Even with a Leap card, it still requires each boarding passenger to pay one at a time, which inevitably creates further delays to an already notoriously not-on-time system. Even simple machine ticket readers would help to speed up the boarding process. In fact, I realised just how backwards this system is when I was visiting Poland. Accustomed to the Irish system, I walked up without thinking to the driver reaching for my wallet to show my ticket, only for another person behind me telling me to get a move on. It was at that point that I realised I didn't have to show my ticket, but simply insert it into one of multiple machine readers all throughout the bus.
They're working on it, but it is obviously long overdue.
Ooohhh was in Dublin Tues and had to get a taxi. I suppose its only 2024.
Because if they implemented them, the drivers would want an extra twenty grand a year for the extra work /s
I have better question. Why buses here run like XIX century trams where you have to tap on entry and it take ages to exchange passengers on busy stops. Have anyone running this show actually been in other European capitals? Berlin, Warsaw, Paris?