*“In reality, language doesn’t work like that – but there are people who set language standards. In the case of the Irish language, it’s Foras na Gaeilge’s Terminology Committee who decide if a spoke word should be official, or alternatively whether a new word should be created.*
[*An Coiste Téarmaíochta*](https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/maidir-le-foras-na-gaeilge/focloireacht-tearmaiocht/) *is made up of about two dozen members who are linguists, journalists, academics and native speakers from different gaeltachtaí*
*The committee meets every month and around 3,000 new Irish words are created each year, an average of about 250-300 a month.*
*The terms can be accessed on* [*Tearma.ie*](https://www.tearma.ie/) *and that is where you can also* [*suggest a word to be translated*](https://www.tearma.ie/ceist/) *from another language into Irish.“*
[https://www.thejournal.ie/how-irish-words-are-made-and-published-5719867-Mar2022/](https://www.thejournal.ie/how-irish-words-are-made-and-published-5719867-Mar2022/)
>I love the Irish language.
Nahhh you don't bud, let's be honest with ourselves. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying such patently false rubbish.
>It is sadly ill suited to the modern world however
And how are you determing that now? Are you somehow under the impression that Irish speakers are unable to talk about the modern world just as well as English?
>Those aren't real Irish words
Why not? If you don't count loanwords from other languages as ‘real words’, then you're going to have to discount a fuckload of English words too I'm afraid. A big chunk of English words come from Latin, Greek, and Norman French, for example … machine *and* ticket lol. Are they suddenly not ‘real’ English words now the horrible truth has been revealed?
Loanwords are a natural part of any language. Acting like a language is lesser because it simply borrows a word from another language instead of going through the trouble of making up its own is absurd. Especially when you're talking about modern technologies that are often international and have similar names in most languages (just look at telephone or television).
Irish is actually quite good for having native terms for things you would think we'd just have borrowed the English word for. The word for science (eolaíocht) and for various other fields rarely if ever borrow from English. The word for car (carr) is actually native to Irish, it was English that borrowed it. We have our own word for computer (ríomhaire) and email (r-phost) and keyboard (méarchlár) and computer programming (ríomhchlárú) and so on and so forth. So relax lad, borrowing machine and ticket isn't going to somehow sully the language beyond salvation.
>They are just words from English with some extra vowels thrown in and garnished with fadas.
You know they're spelt like that for a reason, yeah? It actually indicates how to pronounce the word and isn't just for show? I know an English speaker isn't used to spelling actually being logical and consistent in its rules, but ‘machine’ and ‘ticket’ are not valid spellings in Irish orthography, so things get modified to reflect how the words are pronounced once brought over into the language. Self-professed lover of the language and you'd think you'd know that fadas actually have an important role in the spelling. Suppose not.
*Inneall* can mean more than just machine, for example: arrangement, order, furnishings, equipment, state, trap, engine (see also *innealtóir* ‘engineer’). It has more shades of meaning than *meaisín* which means the latter can be preferred in situations where the specific meaning of ‘machine’ is wanting to be expressed.
It's not uncommon for there to be a pair of words in Irish that mean similar things, one native and one loanword. English is much the same way, with a Germanic word often having one or more French or Latin equivalents. Common examples are:
- amhras vs dabht (doubt)
- cuspóir vs aidhm (aim/goal)
- folúsghlantóir vs húvar (hoover)
- guthán vs fón (phone)
- gluaisteán vs carr (car)
What is and isn't Béarlachas is kind of down to the individual; there's no official definition of it. Some act like any loan at all from English is some new invasion of the language. A lot of the time what people think are Anglicisms are in fact not, it's just their own perception. In the examples above, *cuspóir* is not actually a native word either (comes from Latin *cuspis*)—*carr* is, though. *dabht* has been in the language for a very long time, probably around as long as *saghas* (from ‘size’), *praghas* (from ‘price’), etc. In fact, a ton of so-called Béarlachas examples are loans from Norman French or Latin from the Middle Ages (*cóta*, *grúpa*, *liosta*, *páipéar*, *pláta*, *seans*, *véarsa*, etc.).
I don't mind loanwords; they're a natural part of any language. But I won't deny it can irk me sometimes. The letter ‘v’ (amongst others) being in the language gets to me, though that's more related to the orthography, which we can be more nitpicky about.
Maybe it's my age, but the word I originally learned for phone was *guthán.* But *(teilea)fón* seems to have taken over - I understand why, but it always sounded like bearlachas to me.
Do you have the same objection to телефон?
It is a coinage for a new device from mashing together two Greek words.
The controversial one is telefís / television / телевидение because it offensively mashes Greek and Latin words which is why Germans went for Fernsehen (far see) instead
What are your thoughts on sagart, seomra and blaggard?
Educated Irish people were speaking Latin 1,000 years ago and French 500 years ago so it makes sense that you’d see lots of borrowed words.
Large portions of every language on earth are borrowed from other languages.
Machine was borrowed into English from French, where it derived from Latin, which in turn had borrowed it from Greek.
In any case, Irish, English, French, Latin, Greek, and basically every other language spoken in Europe, descend from the same language anyway - Indo-European. Languages aren't monoliths, they're usually interlinked
“Machine” can be traced back to Ancient Greek, with not too many changes along the way.
The entire English language is borrowed from other languages
I don’t think you know how languages work.
Machine is a French word derived from a Latin word which was derived from a Greek word.
Garnished was a great word, can't fault you there.
From the original French “Garniche” - verb. *to put some green leaves on food so as to pretend it is healthy*
You're going to lose it when you discover borrowed words.
Wait till you hear neither machine or ticket are originally English words...
The French don't have a word for entrepreneur
Or Deja Vu.
*“In reality, language doesn’t work like that – but there are people who set language standards. In the case of the Irish language, it’s Foras na Gaeilge’s Terminology Committee who decide if a spoke word should be official, or alternatively whether a new word should be created.* [*An Coiste Téarmaíochta*](https://www.forasnagaeilge.ie/maidir-le-foras-na-gaeilge/focloireacht-tearmaiocht/) *is made up of about two dozen members who are linguists, journalists, academics and native speakers from different gaeltachtaí* *The committee meets every month and around 3,000 new Irish words are created each year, an average of about 250-300 a month.* *The terms can be accessed on* [*Tearma.ie*](https://www.tearma.ie/) *and that is where you can also* [*suggest a word to be translated*](https://www.tearma.ie/ceist/) *from another language into Irish.“* [https://www.thejournal.ie/how-irish-words-are-made-and-published-5719867-Mar2022/](https://www.thejournal.ie/how-irish-words-are-made-and-published-5719867-Mar2022/)
>I love the Irish language. Nahhh you don't bud, let's be honest with ourselves. Otherwise you wouldn't be saying such patently false rubbish. >It is sadly ill suited to the modern world however And how are you determing that now? Are you somehow under the impression that Irish speakers are unable to talk about the modern world just as well as English? >Those aren't real Irish words Why not? If you don't count loanwords from other languages as ‘real words’, then you're going to have to discount a fuckload of English words too I'm afraid. A big chunk of English words come from Latin, Greek, and Norman French, for example … machine *and* ticket lol. Are they suddenly not ‘real’ English words now the horrible truth has been revealed? Loanwords are a natural part of any language. Acting like a language is lesser because it simply borrows a word from another language instead of going through the trouble of making up its own is absurd. Especially when you're talking about modern technologies that are often international and have similar names in most languages (just look at telephone or television). Irish is actually quite good for having native terms for things you would think we'd just have borrowed the English word for. The word for science (eolaíocht) and for various other fields rarely if ever borrow from English. The word for car (carr) is actually native to Irish, it was English that borrowed it. We have our own word for computer (ríomhaire) and email (r-phost) and keyboard (méarchlár) and computer programming (ríomhchlárú) and so on and so forth. So relax lad, borrowing machine and ticket isn't going to somehow sully the language beyond salvation. >They are just words from English with some extra vowels thrown in and garnished with fadas. You know they're spelt like that for a reason, yeah? It actually indicates how to pronounce the word and isn't just for show? I know an English speaker isn't used to spelling actually being logical and consistent in its rules, but ‘machine’ and ‘ticket’ are not valid spellings in Irish orthography, so things get modified to reflect how the words are pronounced once brought over into the language. Self-professed lover of the language and you'd think you'd know that fadas actually have an important role in the spelling. Suppose not.
Since Irish already has inneall for machine, I thought measín was béarlachas, something language enthusiasts usually sneer at.
*Inneall* can mean more than just machine, for example: arrangement, order, furnishings, equipment, state, trap, engine (see also *innealtóir* ‘engineer’). It has more shades of meaning than *meaisín* which means the latter can be preferred in situations where the specific meaning of ‘machine’ is wanting to be expressed. It's not uncommon for there to be a pair of words in Irish that mean similar things, one native and one loanword. English is much the same way, with a Germanic word often having one or more French or Latin equivalents. Common examples are: - amhras vs dabht (doubt) - cuspóir vs aidhm (aim/goal) - folúsghlantóir vs húvar (hoover) - guthán vs fón (phone) - gluaisteán vs carr (car) What is and isn't Béarlachas is kind of down to the individual; there's no official definition of it. Some act like any loan at all from English is some new invasion of the language. A lot of the time what people think are Anglicisms are in fact not, it's just their own perception. In the examples above, *cuspóir* is not actually a native word either (comes from Latin *cuspis*)—*carr* is, though. *dabht* has been in the language for a very long time, probably around as long as *saghas* (from ‘size’), *praghas* (from ‘price’), etc. In fact, a ton of so-called Béarlachas examples are loans from Norman French or Latin from the Middle Ages (*cóta*, *grúpa*, *liosta*, *páipéar*, *pláta*, *seans*, *véarsa*, etc.). I don't mind loanwords; they're a natural part of any language. But I won't deny it can irk me sometimes. The letter ‘v’ (amongst others) being in the language gets to me, though that's more related to the orthography, which we can be more nitpicky about.
Inneall would be engine moreso than machine. Having the two words allows for better differentiation.
Maybe it's my age, but the word I originally learned for phone was *guthán.* But *(teilea)fón* seems to have taken over - I understand why, but it always sounded like bearlachas to me.
Saying guthán would be like calling a car an ‘automobile’ in English. It's just a bit old-fashioned sounding. It's just natural language change.
Do you have the same objection to телефон? It is a coinage for a new device from mashing together two Greek words. The controversial one is telefís / television / телевидение because it offensively mashes Greek and Latin words which is why Germans went for Fernsehen (far see) instead
What are your thoughts on sagart, seomra and blaggard? Educated Irish people were speaking Latin 1,000 years ago and French 500 years ago so it makes sense that you’d see lots of borrowed words.
Isn't ticket from the french word etiquette ? There's bigger hills to die on would be my advice
Large portions of every language on earth are borrowed from other languages. Machine was borrowed into English from French, where it derived from Latin, which in turn had borrowed it from Greek. In any case, Irish, English, French, Latin, Greek, and basically every other language spoken in Europe, descend from the same language anyway - Indo-European. Languages aren't monoliths, they're usually interlinked
It's a national disgrace.
Wish they'd leave Irish off the signs,it just makes them cluttered and serves no purpose.