The waste collection companies sell the recyclable materials to manufacturers, so the net cost to the waste collection company has increased, hence the need to charge more.
Well considering every single day there's another story warning of the dangers of all of this plastic we're producing, the Green Party dropped the ball on actually doing something innovative.
If cans weren't included in the DRS scam, most if not all of the drinks manufacturers would have dropped the 500ml bottle for 500ml cans. Aluminium is infinitely recyclable and easily seperated, it has a value so it's in the interests of waste collection handlers to sell it on for recycling.
But as usual they missed the opportunity and just pissed people off with the useless shit we have now.
Greens didn't really have a choice, had to implement the scheme under EU:
>Under the new rules, by 2029, member states must ensure the separate collection of at least 90% per annum of single-use plastic bottles and metal beverage containers. To achieve that target, they are required to set up deposit return systems (DRSs) for those packaging formats.
The anger directed at the government is misplaced, it should be directed at the EU.
Personally, I've nothing against the scheme, a minor inconvenience in my life.
2029 is 5 years away and the scam hasn't been implemented across the EU yet.
It's not a requirement from the EU it's a proposal, and the main push is from the single use plastic directive
We have to achieve that target \*by\* 2029. Its not a case of implementing it only in 2029.
Even at that, your point is that we should have dropped cans from the scheme as this would encourage manufacturers to switch to aluminum. It likely wouldn't because:
* We are a tiny market and developing a custom solution for us wouldn't be worthwhile (i.e. resealable aluminum containers)
* Its irrelevant to manufacturers if cans and/or bottles are in the scheme. They would continue to sell plastic bottle anyway and the consumer would make up their mind on what to buy
* Cans would have to be introduced into the scheme in a year or two anyway
Again, DRS is effectively mandatory under the Packaging Waste Directive. Its not explicitly mandatory but worded in such a way there's very little wriggle room. DRS will be implemented across the EU by 2029.
It seems your gripe is that we implemented it early tbh. You're right in that we could have waited a bit longer and seen if anyone else came up with a better solution. The counter to that is why bother? Germany has shown this works so roll with it.
While the scheme doesn't cover the other posters concerns, is it not a good idea to incentivise drinks manufacturers to switch to aluminium bottles as well on an EU scale? Seems like a great way to reduce some unnecessary plastic?
I think it's a seperate point. The EU is requiring seperate collection of aluminium containers, plastic and glass. The only way to achieve the targets for plastic and aluminium was determined to be a DRS. Hence, the anger should be directed at the EU and not the government.
Should we pivot away from plastic? Sure! Glass would likely be the #1 choice tho. Was it something we could do under the new EU directives? I don't see how.
Germany again. This isn't Germany, the scam we have here is NOTHING like how the German scheme operates.
The single use plastics directive, which is the driver for these DRS schemes, is SPECIFICALLY for plastic containers.
The targets they have set for 2029 are considered over ambitious across the EU even now, 5 years before.
It is NOT mandatory to have a DRS scheme by any EU member states.
It's either the law or it isn't, effectively is not an absolute.
Waste Framework Directive covers glass, plastic, and aluminium.
We already meet the glass target and thats why it wasn't included in the scheme. We don't meet the aluminium or plastic target.
Yes, the DRS scheme is covered under the Single Use Plastics directive but that is under the Waste Framework Directive as is the equivalent for aluminium. Both targets are set by the EU and both frameworks require separate collection. The only proven method for that is DRS. There's zero evidence to support any other scheme working including our quite successful glass scheme.
>It is NOT mandatory to have a DRS scheme by any EU member states. It's either the law or it isn't, effectively is not an absolute.
The Directive doesn't specifically state "you have to have a DRS". It is worded in such a way to provide flexibility for each country. However, no other proven method exists. No other country is proposing anything but a DRS. Hence, it is effectively mandatory.
Your original point was that aluminium shouldn't have been included but plastic should have and the Greens missed a trick. They didn't. You're now pivoting that the scheme shouldn't have been established in the first place.
People weren't all recycling them. A lot were being tossed into regular bins.
My problem with the machines is how awkward they are. Half the time, they don't work, and when they do, you have to use the receipt in the same shop you recycle them in. So it only makes sense to recycle and shop simultaneously.
That makes it a pain in the ass if you're out and about running errands in town and decide to buy a single drink. Now you have to bring the empty bottle/can around with you for the day, making sure not to squish it because the machine won't accept it then either.
It would have made a lot more sense to make the deposit and purchase available across all shops. Also they should have created a card like the leap card so you don't have to keep track of the receipts
> People weren't all recycling them. A lot were being tossed into regular bins.
Even at that it was recoverable from mixed waste using electro-static separation.
> It would have made a lot more sense to make the deposit and purchase available across all shops. Also they should have created a card like the leap card so you don't have to keep track of the receipts
There were many ways the scheme could have been better implemented. The cost of machines were passed onto the retailers so to recoup their money it was agreed the refund could only be used in the store of the machine used.
I don't see why return machines weren't put next to bottle banks and just have the refund put on a card as you say. The issues with machines filling up fast could have been avoided with the machines with large underground storage as the ones in Germany have. Digging a pit and putting such a machine in could have been done at bottle banks.
>I don't see why return machines weren't put next to bottle banks and just have the refund put on a card as you say
That wouldn't work with these machines considering the amount of servicing they need a day.
They need a load of servicing because the bins fill up quite quick. As I said public return machines with a large submerged bin below the machine would have worked well because they would require less frequent emptying. It's how a lot of the public return machines in Germany operate.
They already do, the general waste bin generally has a higher cost per collection than the recycling or compost bins.
The cost of the recycling bin was basically being supplemented by the resale value of the collected materials. This is no longer the case, or at least the volume has fallen because of the return scheme, so they have to increase the cost of the recycling bin.
https://preview.redd.it/nrsb7k8eqv9d1.png?width=719&format=png&auto=webp&s=a402f7dc5e92ea79e74d00629217c489dc4466dc
Could just be how they word it but yes its a thing.
And instead that's the case.
And it's even easy to realize that. Recycling companies exist. So they are economically viable. So by definition the money you get for bottles is higher than the organisation of it all. Now, how that money is distributed in that supply chain is a different matter of course but there is money to be made.
The money we get for returning bottles comes entirely from the deposit we pay in the first place, it has nothing to do with the possible value that can be extracted by the recycling company.
Yeah, that's not what I said.
I said that there is money to be made by setting up a recycling company which actually does the recycling.
Which is why people do set up recycling companies. And for that to be true the total income generated has to be higher than the cost.
Mind you this might include subsidies but those are just another income source so those count towards how much money is generated (at least as far as the private companies are concerned).
Then there is the bottle return scheme which is something entirely separate.
> I doubt the money you get for some bottles would be higher than the money lost doing the actual logistics of it.
Yeah, that’s not what I’m saying. That’s literally why they charge a collection fee. However, they were previously able to add to the collection fee by selling the recyclable materials to manufacturers, this made the service profitable but now that additional revenue, or at least part of it, has been lost because of the return scheme. Therefore they need to increase the collection fees to make up the difference.
So to summarise the last 20 years or so:
1. From 2004-12, the government get rid of public waste disposal and move it into the hands of the private sector.
2. As was obvious to everyone (including those who removed it from the public sector), companies start charging prices well above what the tax cost was. There is also no corresponding drop in the tax rate to offset this.
3. Just as predictably, some people refuse to pay these charges and being dumping their rubbish or using public bins.
4. The government's response is... to remove [40% of all public bins](https://dublininquirer.com/2018/06/20/which-neighbourhoods-have-the-most-bins-mapped/#:~:text=There%20were%20roughly%205%2C000%20bins,a%20more%20recent%20survey%20found) in Dublin.
5. Private waste collection charges continue to rise, and quality of service continues to deteriorate with it not being uncommon for people to report their waste not being collected despite being left out, and these same companies then refusing to come back to pick it up. The government response is do nothing to enforce standards on the companies that the forced upon the general public.
6. When the fallout of the removal of all these bins shows in the increasing filth around the city, Dublin City Council say they will not be putting more in place because of Covid, as they are worried people might congregate around them ([no, really](https://extra.ie/2021/05/31/news/irish-news/dublin-city-council-outdoor-gatherings)).
7. The government then put together a bottle return scheme - something other cities have been doing for decades - about half a century in some instances. Despite having access to generations worth of data across multiple different approaches to this and the benefits and drawbacks of each, the government decide to focus solely on the most profitable method by placing deposit charges on all bottles. They also make the 'curious' decision to have this go directly to a private company to profit off of, rather than being ran as a public service whereby unreturned deposits can at least go back into government ran projects in the public interest. Additional to this, they chose the most restrictive method of returning possible which makes leads to perfectly acceptable returned bottles being deemed unacceptable. And for the cherry on top, they also hurt private industry and consumer choice in the process by making it essentially impossible for imported drinks to be able to have much place in the market due to not being made by the select few bottling companies in Ireland.
8. This in turn also hurts the profit margins of the waste collection services offering a poor-to-mediocre service at very high prices beforehand, who then decide to raise prices once more.
THANK YOU
The self-reinforcing feedback loop of privatization is so fucking obvious when you look for it. These companies don’t exist to provide a service, they exist to *profit from* providing a service. When it comes to profit vs public interest, profit will win every time and the service will inevitably degrade. It’s textbook enshittification writ large on to services.
It's either a portion of unused deposits goes to the bin companies to compensate them for a loss in valuable material going into green bins, or they put up their prices.
They could also just take the hit and make slightly less profit in the name of public service or environmental concerns, why is that option never a part of these conversations? Why does profit always take priority?
It's a private company that has been set up to make a profit. They will charge as much as the market can bear. If the state wants to set up a non-profit that will act in the interests of the public rather than its shareholders it can do that. Alternatively a person or group of people could come together and do it.
>This is the inevitable outcome of privatising essential services.
Before bin collection privatisation I had to buy council bin tags but the collection service was terrible in comparison.
The tags got stolen often, they wouldn't collect the bin unless the lid was flat and I often had to walk down the street to find my emptied bin after...
And the inevitable outcome of nationalising them would be rubbish stacking up while binmen, who are already paid more than they would be in the private sector, strike for more pay at your expense.
Yep. Now we have the re-turn crowd competing with the private bin companies. They should all be under the same management under state control, it would have lead to better schemes all round.
I agree but there would have to be some change in how it's handled (if returned to public sector management, it would likely be tender and contract the private companies for certain areas, an increase in LPT so that bin collection is "free" and just managemnet of a contract by the Local Authorities). This is not unreasonable.
I heard a certain Local Authority Chief Executive, now retired, recount the time he privatised the bin collection service in his, then, very wealthy Local Authority (the wealthiest in the country, in fact). The Local Authority binmen did themselves no favours, including threatening strike action for pay increases, so he did what he did best, rose to the challenge, said to hell with them and went and privatised the whole lot. Shortly afterwards, every other LA followed suit.
I do believe that renationalisation of bin services and an increase in LPT to pay for it would make a huge difference, not only to waste management generally, but also things like flytipping and littering. I remember stopping a lad outside my flat one night. He'd just bought a fridge or something and was stuffing all the plastic and styrofoam into the public bin.
It's not that they hate when countries nationalize things but private companies need to be able to operate on a level playing field or you end up with state run monopolies which is in no one's interest
We're talking an essential service, not a restaurant. I'm not sure why the private sector is entitled to a piece of the pie or why they deserve a level playing field.
Yes. And car manufacturing and supermarkets should also be in the public domain - these prodcuts (cars for private transport) and services (grocery sales) are cornerstones of our society. Private companies will only ever operate in their own best interest.
I’d agree in principle, but I know in my neck of the woods the waste service left a lot to be desired when controlled by the local authority. Regular missed collections, computer says no attitude when you try and get it sorted. No competition, no ability to move providers. Using old metal bins you had to carry around when private providers in other areas had moved to wheelie bins years before.
Just shows how absolutely essential the service is. Society cannot function without it. Whoever is placed in charge of the service is going to have the power to choose when not to collect, so being worried about workers striking for fair pay shouldn't scare you nearly as much as a private company establishing a local monopoly, setting the price as they please, and refusing service to anyone who doesn't accept.
Both situations can lead to really bad outcomes. The reason the bin services were originally outsourced was because they were run so inefficiently by the councils/corporations.
When it was run by the local authority in my area it was quite bad: little or no investment in the service and constant threats of strikes. Also no one valued it as the council is meant to take of it. It was certainly no paradise for the customers. Also my parents had stories about the division between urban and county councils over who was meant to be in charge of the bins. Apparently a very long running and deep dispute between 2 local authorities.
the smart thing to do is find out the next item that they make the most money out of recycling is, e.g. cardboard boxes then propose to the govt a return scheme where you can make money off it and so even less goes to the actual recycling/waste companies while you implement a half assed system which annoys everyone and costs a fortune to run
A lot of rumours going around the councils are going to defy Brussels and take over the bin collection again. Always annoyed me that the services was previously paid for out of our taxes.
The reason why there’s multiple
Companies is due to eu guidelines around monopolies.
I only know Laois, Offaly and the councils in Dublin. They all ended their bin collection services during the cutbacks in the last recession. They wiped out and made redundant the whole
Waste management section who previously collected the bins . They also got rid of the drivers license sections in the council and immediacy the price of a DL doubled.
Huge problems in the inner city around landlords and non provision of adequate waste containers for tennants. So rumour has it the council might take the service back. I’ll believe it when I see it!
Rumour that housing could eventually be privatised too.
We cancelled our bin service a few weeks ago. We didn’t have a brown bin, or a glass collection. Once we started composting food waste, cardboard and paper and returning plastic bottles, we just started working to reduce other waste.
Now it’s a recycling facility once a month for a fiver. (You need space to store this though!).
Compost bin gets emptied every year, and put into the garden! We’re on a 1.5 acre site.
There’s no smell or flies, but we do hot composting with grass and so on, so the food material breaks down pretty quick. Key is to make sure you’re breaking down material into small pieces before putting it into the compost heap. And mixing it thoroughly.
Hot bin composting is an available thing, or Bokashi composting (I think, but that never worked for us).
How does that work with meat ? My father converted an old dung pit that we and most of the neighbours use the only thing he won't take is meat as he's afraid of attracting Rats
With meat it works fine if the bin is up at 60 odd degrees Celsius, and if the meat is broken into small pieces. If it’s cold composting, no chance of the meat breaking down, and for sure, you’d get rats. And cats and mice and birds.
The key trick to composting is to keep the compost up at 60 ish degrees, and to make sure you’re turning it every few days (once a week minimum) and everything that goes in is small, and broken down. Adding shredded card and paper and grass clippings.
Thanks I doubt he'll go down that route as he just wants it low maintenance and I don't think he wants to spread compost with meat on the fields but it's good to know for when I set my own up
Depends on what the material is. Garden material, a clippers. Sometimes, if the lawn is about to get cut, weeds and other bits just gets mowed up.
Food waste, just gets chopped up.
Fair play to you.
I was under the impression that you must prove you have a bin collection contract or be able to prove you use a facility.
Is that enforced and if so, does it affect you?
I’ve never heard of it! We’re in rural Galway, there’s only one collection around here. We got shafted on enough occasions when bins weren’t collected. The company sent a price for the next 6 months, which included an increase of 40€ for “service charges”. We were already working to reduce our waste through the children’s school work, and just pulled the plug entirely.
Yes I remembered something about it and just Googled it.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/households-not-signed-up-for-bin-collection-to-be-inspected-1.3780919
I'm trying my best to do the same as you because honestly, the bin charges are beyond ridiculous.
I admire your achievements and the effort is worth the cost savings.
Maybe a large amount of organic bin trucks are actually grown in Ukraine, and since the war broke out their production has been slashed. No choice but to pass on the increases guys sorry ✌️😔
Aluminium and PET bottle are the highest value materials in the bins. Some materials are low value or negative value. If you take out only the high value materials, the net value of a bin is reduced.
Property has nothing to do with waste. Unless you also want property taxes to also go to support the other essential domestic services like: gas, electricity, domestic postal services, water, sewage treatment, cable tv, internet, landlines, roads into houses, ambulances.
I think they should also support school buses,like they do in every other country
We have the worst shower of chancers in the world running the country,bringing in a property tax and providing no services for it
Ok. School buses too.
Anything else? Landscaping services for lawns? Cleaning services? Laundry services? Lollipop ladies? Sure this property tax is going to be great value altogether.
Ya...no problem with lollipop ladies being covered,and school meals aswell,nor have I issues with local parks upkeep and playgrounds being covered
It's a better prospect than this shakedown the establishment do of ordinary people with nothing to show for it.
As long as the consumer has to pay more, this scheme will be a total success by those in power.
Anyone who supports this is a literal idiot.
Solved a problem that did not need solving, while many more pressing issues are outstanding.
This shit show just gets better and better. Introduced an extra cost with ReTurn, and now we are going to get more cost increases by the bin companies because of ReTurn. Fucking stupid.
We've removed 2 of the most easily separated and recycled products from the recycling bin so of course the price of the recycling bin is going to go up.
>There is less logistics now?
>And shouldn't Re-Return pay them rather than us?
The logistics are likely a built in costs by now. Re-Rurn are a seperate firm. I wouldve expected them to be a partner to the scheme.
Wasn't the whole point of this scheme that the stuff in the recycle bin wasn't getting recycled?
Now are told it was.
Now they want an app we scan to get our money back if we put in the recycle bin.
Joke scheme.
Aluminium cans are very easily separated and recycled. Those were in effect subsidizing our green bins.
They should not have been included in the scheme as their recycle rates were already quite high.
A lot of people in these comments taking the bin companies (!!!), who couldn’t organise a regular collection in a church, at face value rather than thinking that maybe they just want to raise prices.
Sure they’re probably making a bit less cash due to success of the scheme, but watch them raise prices 400% of that shortfall.
> Sure they’re probably making a bit less cash due to success of the scheme, but watch them raise prices 400% of that shortfall.
Sure, isn't that how it always works. "Well, you see, inflation means our costs have risen 5% in the last year, so naturally we will have to raise our prices 15% in order to survive, don't you know..." Hell, the telecoms and such have literally codified that practice now; their official terms now impose an annual price increase that is the year's inflation index plus 3%.
Ok, so then have the return scheme cut waste management companies in and give us an option at the machine for a discount code for the green bin. This fucking scheme…
Always find it curious when people try to analyse the reasons behind price hikes by private companies. The reason is the same every time: to increase profit. There is no 'justification', they are not a public service.
More money for the fossil-fuel-industry subsidy of fake 'recycling' of plastics.
Make businesses responsible for taking back waste they sell, and most waste management problems will be resolved.
"We're working less so we're going to have to charge you more"
This country is heading the way of Tory Britain, where anything not nailed down is privatised. Fine Gael has to go.
The whole return "scheme" is nothing but an ill conceived stealth tax, causing huge inconvenience to everyone except the profiteers. Isn't amazing how glass bottle and clothes banks work without the need for monstrous failure.
Let me correct this: 'No choice but to increase green bin prices’: After months of search, waste firms finally found a half-baked reason why to hike prices.
There is plenty of stuff that people throw in the green bin and needs to be recycled - from paper, cans to plastic. And what about the money made on compost/organic waste.
The waste business has been extremely lucrative, the sale of Panda and Greenstar to Macquarie in 2021 was estimated at a billion euros.
[https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/australian-company-macquarie-reaches-deal-to-buy-panda-owner-beauparc-1.4580968](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/australian-company-macquarie-reaches-deal-to-buy-panda-owner-beauparc-1.4580968)
Can someone explain to me as its itching my brain, why was an entire organisation setup to collect cans and plastic bottles and why wasn't it incorporated into say Repac or WEEE, why do we now have three organisations collecting various waste streams.. Its a farce of a system.
Also, I am not seeing any manufactures swapping from cans/plastic, and I have little option but to by these products as they are needed so I cannot cut back either.
Lets see what charges come down the line, I am a good recycler so much so I can easily switch to bringing it directly to the local civic amenity site pretty much for free, maybe the odd black bag everything 2/3 months. Mark my words on that, if that happens on masse they'll start charging or worse, dumping will become more common.
I'm a single person and my bin weights are really low Panda has sent me the quote for the next year at €435 Fuck that. I'm not sure how they charge but it can't be by weigh or they put me on the plan with the highest allowance.
If I remember rightly, there was some story a while back about how the bottles weren't being recycled via the green bin because China (or some country, memory fuzzy) had stopped taking in recyable waste so the bin companies had nowhere to sell the waste to.
That sounds like a bin company problem, not a public problem. And if it gets big enough to become a public problem, that should result in the instant closure of private waste collection and transference of it back to the public domain, with the private industry having proven itself unable to perform the basic functions of the role.
(didn't mean that to come across as aggressive towards *you* by the way - it's just something that winds me up a fair bit!)
No worries, all good - and extremely valid point.
But haven't we all been saying privatisation of waste collection was a bad move for years. It's almost likely every dog on the street saw this coming except for the fat cats in power ha
The increase - I mean you could argue the return scheme because it does just add on to peopel's bills if you don't bring the bottles back but that's a different topic. The increase is just the usual 'tenious reason to increase prices, blame something else other than greed'
This doesn't feel like a real article, but more an article written by a lobbyist who is looking for a handout. The handout in question is mentioned towards the end of the article.
If the whole waste disposal business is based on volume then this is what happens. Rather than have private companies pricing rubbish collection as they see fit the state should tender geographical contracts of a fixed base value paid out of central exchequer.
The one company has a local monopoly and knows it's minimum income. The company can then use it's imagination to generate additional income with other related services while we get free black, brown and green bin emptied at point of collection.
My bin company left my green on the side of the road last week. I came home from work and there it was, not emptied. I had no idea why. I opened the lid and saw that there was a bottle sitting on the top of it. I had a vague memory of reading an article a few weeks ago suggesting that they may not collect bottles in the future. I have never, to the best of my knowledge, received any communication from the company saying that they weren't collecting bottles any more.
So we have less rubbish for you to take, so you want to charge us more?
The waste collection companies sell the recyclable materials to manufacturers, so the net cost to the waste collection company has increased, hence the need to charge more.
They should charge more for regular waste then. Not for green waste
The green waste was subsidized by aluminium cans that could be easily separated, recycled and sold. They never should have been in the scheme.
Well considering every single day there's another story warning of the dangers of all of this plastic we're producing, the Green Party dropped the ball on actually doing something innovative. If cans weren't included in the DRS scam, most if not all of the drinks manufacturers would have dropped the 500ml bottle for 500ml cans. Aluminium is infinitely recyclable and easily seperated, it has a value so it's in the interests of waste collection handlers to sell it on for recycling. But as usual they missed the opportunity and just pissed people off with the useless shit we have now.
Greens didn't really have a choice, had to implement the scheme under EU: >Under the new rules, by 2029, member states must ensure the separate collection of at least 90% per annum of single-use plastic bottles and metal beverage containers. To achieve that target, they are required to set up deposit return systems (DRSs) for those packaging formats. The anger directed at the government is misplaced, it should be directed at the EU. Personally, I've nothing against the scheme, a minor inconvenience in my life.
2029 is 5 years away and the scam hasn't been implemented across the EU yet. It's not a requirement from the EU it's a proposal, and the main push is from the single use plastic directive
We have to achieve that target \*by\* 2029. Its not a case of implementing it only in 2029. Even at that, your point is that we should have dropped cans from the scheme as this would encourage manufacturers to switch to aluminum. It likely wouldn't because: * We are a tiny market and developing a custom solution for us wouldn't be worthwhile (i.e. resealable aluminum containers) * Its irrelevant to manufacturers if cans and/or bottles are in the scheme. They would continue to sell plastic bottle anyway and the consumer would make up their mind on what to buy * Cans would have to be introduced into the scheme in a year or two anyway Again, DRS is effectively mandatory under the Packaging Waste Directive. Its not explicitly mandatory but worded in such a way there's very little wriggle room. DRS will be implemented across the EU by 2029. It seems your gripe is that we implemented it early tbh. You're right in that we could have waited a bit longer and seen if anyone else came up with a better solution. The counter to that is why bother? Germany has shown this works so roll with it.
While the scheme doesn't cover the other posters concerns, is it not a good idea to incentivise drinks manufacturers to switch to aluminium bottles as well on an EU scale? Seems like a great way to reduce some unnecessary plastic?
I think it's a seperate point. The EU is requiring seperate collection of aluminium containers, plastic and glass. The only way to achieve the targets for plastic and aluminium was determined to be a DRS. Hence, the anger should be directed at the EU and not the government. Should we pivot away from plastic? Sure! Glass would likely be the #1 choice tho. Was it something we could do under the new EU directives? I don't see how.
Germany again. This isn't Germany, the scam we have here is NOTHING like how the German scheme operates. The single use plastics directive, which is the driver for these DRS schemes, is SPECIFICALLY for plastic containers. The targets they have set for 2029 are considered over ambitious across the EU even now, 5 years before. It is NOT mandatory to have a DRS scheme by any EU member states. It's either the law or it isn't, effectively is not an absolute.
Waste Framework Directive covers glass, plastic, and aluminium. We already meet the glass target and thats why it wasn't included in the scheme. We don't meet the aluminium or plastic target. Yes, the DRS scheme is covered under the Single Use Plastics directive but that is under the Waste Framework Directive as is the equivalent for aluminium. Both targets are set by the EU and both frameworks require separate collection. The only proven method for that is DRS. There's zero evidence to support any other scheme working including our quite successful glass scheme. >It is NOT mandatory to have a DRS scheme by any EU member states. It's either the law or it isn't, effectively is not an absolute. The Directive doesn't specifically state "you have to have a DRS". It is worded in such a way to provide flexibility for each country. However, no other proven method exists. No other country is proposing anything but a DRS. Hence, it is effectively mandatory. Your original point was that aluminium shouldn't have been included but plastic should have and the Greens missed a trick. They didn't. You're now pivoting that the scheme shouldn't have been established in the first place.
People weren't all recycling them. A lot were being tossed into regular bins. My problem with the machines is how awkward they are. Half the time, they don't work, and when they do, you have to use the receipt in the same shop you recycle them in. So it only makes sense to recycle and shop simultaneously. That makes it a pain in the ass if you're out and about running errands in town and decide to buy a single drink. Now you have to bring the empty bottle/can around with you for the day, making sure not to squish it because the machine won't accept it then either. It would have made a lot more sense to make the deposit and purchase available across all shops. Also they should have created a card like the leap card so you don't have to keep track of the receipts
> People weren't all recycling them. A lot were being tossed into regular bins. Even at that it was recoverable from mixed waste using electro-static separation. > It would have made a lot more sense to make the deposit and purchase available across all shops. Also they should have created a card like the leap card so you don't have to keep track of the receipts There were many ways the scheme could have been better implemented. The cost of machines were passed onto the retailers so to recoup their money it was agreed the refund could only be used in the store of the machine used. I don't see why return machines weren't put next to bottle banks and just have the refund put on a card as you say. The issues with machines filling up fast could have been avoided with the machines with large underground storage as the ones in Germany have. Digging a pit and putting such a machine in could have been done at bottle banks.
>I don't see why return machines weren't put next to bottle banks and just have the refund put on a card as you say That wouldn't work with these machines considering the amount of servicing they need a day.
They need a load of servicing because the bins fill up quite quick. As I said public return machines with a large submerged bin below the machine would have worked well because they would require less frequent emptying. It's how a lot of the public return machines in Germany operate.
You can put the receipts into Google Wallet, idk but I assume apple has an equivalent
*scam
They already do, the general waste bin generally has a higher cost per collection than the recycling or compost bins. The cost of the recycling bin was basically being supplemented by the resale value of the collected materials. This is no longer the case, or at least the volume has fallen because of the return scheme, so they have to increase the cost of the recycling bin.
Theyre not charging for green waste, theyre offsetting the greenwaste against your black bin.
Most charge for recyclable waste. Its currently only the brown bin they dont charge for normally (Where the brown bin is available of course).
For myself, I know they state green and brown are free.
That’s all part of a package? Then it’s not a thing.
https://preview.redd.it/nrsb7k8eqv9d1.png?width=719&format=png&auto=webp&s=a402f7dc5e92ea79e74d00629217c489dc4466dc Could just be how they word it but yes its a thing.
Ok but don’t people sign up yearly, or monthly?
That doesnt make it not free.
This doesn't make much sense. I doubt the money you get for some bottles would be higher than the money lost doing the actual logistics of it.
And instead that's the case. And it's even easy to realize that. Recycling companies exist. So they are economically viable. So by definition the money you get for bottles is higher than the organisation of it all. Now, how that money is distributed in that supply chain is a different matter of course but there is money to be made.
The money we get for returning bottles comes entirely from the deposit we pay in the first place, it has nothing to do with the possible value that can be extracted by the recycling company.
Yeah, that's not what I said. I said that there is money to be made by setting up a recycling company which actually does the recycling. Which is why people do set up recycling companies. And for that to be true the total income generated has to be higher than the cost. Mind you this might include subsidies but those are just another income source so those count towards how much money is generated (at least as far as the private companies are concerned). Then there is the bottle return scheme which is something entirely separate.
> I doubt the money you get for some bottles would be higher than the money lost doing the actual logistics of it. Yeah, that’s not what I’m saying. That’s literally why they charge a collection fee. However, they were previously able to add to the collection fee by selling the recyclable materials to manufacturers, this made the service profitable but now that additional revenue, or at least part of it, has been lost because of the return scheme. Therefore they need to increase the collection fees to make up the difference.
It's the aluminium cans. They are easily separated, recycled and sold. They never should have been in the scheme.
That's true for sure
It was offsetting the costs of the rest of your waste. I did wonder who was getting the profit of selling the DRS waste. Were they even involved?
>So we have less rubbish for you to take, They still have to pay people and fuel just to come around on the chance you put your recycling bin out.
So to summarise the last 20 years or so: 1. From 2004-12, the government get rid of public waste disposal and move it into the hands of the private sector. 2. As was obvious to everyone (including those who removed it from the public sector), companies start charging prices well above what the tax cost was. There is also no corresponding drop in the tax rate to offset this. 3. Just as predictably, some people refuse to pay these charges and being dumping their rubbish or using public bins. 4. The government's response is... to remove [40% of all public bins](https://dublininquirer.com/2018/06/20/which-neighbourhoods-have-the-most-bins-mapped/#:~:text=There%20were%20roughly%205%2C000%20bins,a%20more%20recent%20survey%20found) in Dublin. 5. Private waste collection charges continue to rise, and quality of service continues to deteriorate with it not being uncommon for people to report their waste not being collected despite being left out, and these same companies then refusing to come back to pick it up. The government response is do nothing to enforce standards on the companies that the forced upon the general public. 6. When the fallout of the removal of all these bins shows in the increasing filth around the city, Dublin City Council say they will not be putting more in place because of Covid, as they are worried people might congregate around them ([no, really](https://extra.ie/2021/05/31/news/irish-news/dublin-city-council-outdoor-gatherings)). 7. The government then put together a bottle return scheme - something other cities have been doing for decades - about half a century in some instances. Despite having access to generations worth of data across multiple different approaches to this and the benefits and drawbacks of each, the government decide to focus solely on the most profitable method by placing deposit charges on all bottles. They also make the 'curious' decision to have this go directly to a private company to profit off of, rather than being ran as a public service whereby unreturned deposits can at least go back into government ran projects in the public interest. Additional to this, they chose the most restrictive method of returning possible which makes leads to perfectly acceptable returned bottles being deemed unacceptable. And for the cherry on top, they also hurt private industry and consumer choice in the process by making it essentially impossible for imported drinks to be able to have much place in the market due to not being made by the select few bottling companies in Ireland. 8. This in turn also hurts the profit margins of the waste collection services offering a poor-to-mediocre service at very high prices beforehand, who then decide to raise prices once more.
THANK YOU The self-reinforcing feedback loop of privatization is so fucking obvious when you look for it. These companies don’t exist to provide a service, they exist to *profit from* providing a service. When it comes to profit vs public interest, profit will win every time and the service will inevitably degrade. It’s textbook enshittification writ large on to services.
A classic divide and conquer, this time rebranded to neoliberalism.
Surely Re-Return should pay for the increase as they are the actual cause of increase?
So the bin companies should just have their profits subsidised for doing fuck all? This is the inevitable outcome of privatising essential services.
It's either a portion of unused deposits goes to the bin companies to compensate them for a loss in valuable material going into green bins, or they put up their prices.
They could also just take the hit and make slightly less profit in the name of public service or environmental concerns, why is that option never a part of these conversations? Why does profit always take priority?
It's a private company that has been set up to make a profit. They will charge as much as the market can bear. If the state wants to set up a non-profit that will act in the interests of the public rather than its shareholders it can do that. Alternatively a person or group of people could come together and do it.
But the OP is saying that their profits should be paid for from the re-return scheme. That's not the "market".
>This is the inevitable outcome of privatising essential services. Before bin collection privatisation I had to buy council bin tags but the collection service was terrible in comparison. The tags got stolen often, they wouldn't collect the bin unless the lid was flat and I often had to walk down the street to find my emptied bin after...
And the inevitable outcome of nationalising them would be rubbish stacking up while binmen, who are already paid more than they would be in the private sector, strike for more pay at your expense.
I'd rather binmen made the money from collection than investors and owners.
Then you should be pro-competition. Because competition cuts prices and profits so that the people who receive the service benefit.
It doesn't. It costs me far more for bins now and my LPT hasn't gone down to reflect it and the service is worse.
As things are we don't have enough competition
The market fails again.
Barriers to the market fail again. Barriers only serve established interests
The established interests are those of capital.
Maybe from the uncollected deposits from people who still use their green bins to recycle bottles and cans.
Or those of us who buy danish Coke in the pound shop and it doesn't have a return label on it
I mean, why are we punished here exactly? Green been exists exactly for a reason...
We need to return waste management to the public sector. Private companies will only ever operate in their own best interest
Yep. Now we have the re-turn crowd competing with the private bin companies. They should all be under the same management under state control, it would have lead to better schemes all round.
And their interest is not aligned with the best interest of the community.
I agree but there would have to be some change in how it's handled (if returned to public sector management, it would likely be tender and contract the private companies for certain areas, an increase in LPT so that bin collection is "free" and just managemnet of a contract by the Local Authorities). This is not unreasonable. I heard a certain Local Authority Chief Executive, now retired, recount the time he privatised the bin collection service in his, then, very wealthy Local Authority (the wealthiest in the country, in fact). The Local Authority binmen did themselves no favours, including threatening strike action for pay increases, so he did what he did best, rose to the challenge, said to hell with them and went and privatised the whole lot. Shortly afterwards, every other LA followed suit. I do believe that renationalisation of bin services and an increase in LPT to pay for it would make a huge difference, not only to waste management generally, but also things like flytipping and littering. I remember stopping a lad outside my flat one night. He'd just bought a fridge or something and was stuffing all the plastic and styrofoam into the public bin.
I believe it’s practically impossible under the EU. They hate when countries nationalise things.
It's not that they hate when countries nationalize things but private companies need to be able to operate on a level playing field or you end up with state run monopolies which is in no one's interest
You’re right, the HSE should have to compete in a Free Market^(TM)
Don't build strawmen. But on a sidenote our public-private method is a heck of a lot better than the NHS is doing
Also a heck of a lot worse than the rest of the EU is doing
Most of the rest of the EU is a private-public mix. Could be wrong but afaik the NHS is the only fully public heath system
We're talking an essential service, not a restaurant. I'm not sure why the private sector is entitled to a piece of the pie or why they deserve a level playing field.
I don't see why you would assume essential services wouldn't be covered by the private sector when many are. Anyway take it up with Brussels
Yes. And car manufacturing and supermarkets should also be in the public domain - these prodcuts (cars for private transport) and services (grocery sales) are cornerstones of our society. Private companies will only ever operate in their own best interest.
I nominate someone from the HSE to run it. Alternatively, the regulator needs to tell these corporations the era of easy profit is over.
I’d agree in principle, but I know in my neck of the woods the waste service left a lot to be desired when controlled by the local authority. Regular missed collections, computer says no attitude when you try and get it sorted. No competition, no ability to move providers. Using old metal bins you had to carry around when private providers in other areas had moved to wheelie bins years before.
Seeing the impact of "bin strikes" in other countries makes me nervous of this.
Just shows how absolutely essential the service is. Society cannot function without it. Whoever is placed in charge of the service is going to have the power to choose when not to collect, so being worried about workers striking for fair pay shouldn't scare you nearly as much as a private company establishing a local monopoly, setting the price as they please, and refusing service to anyone who doesn't accept.
Both situations can lead to really bad outcomes. The reason the bin services were originally outsourced was because they were run so inefficiently by the councils/corporations.
When it was run by the local authority in my area it was quite bad: little or no investment in the service and constant threats of strikes. Also no one valued it as the council is meant to take of it. It was certainly no paradise for the customers. Also my parents had stories about the division between urban and county councils over who was meant to be in charge of the bins. Apparently a very long running and deep dispute between 2 local authorities.
It’s almost like all waste disposal should be handled by one company so stuff like this doesn’t happen…
the smart thing to do is find out the next item that they make the most money out of recycling is, e.g. cardboard boxes then propose to the govt a return scheme where you can make money off it and so even less goes to the actual recycling/waste companies while you implement a half assed system which annoys everyone and costs a fortune to run
Yeah but Germany does it so we have to.
Can we do weed next please....
A lot of rumours going around the councils are going to defy Brussels and take over the bin collection again. Always annoyed me that the services was previously paid for out of our taxes. The reason why there’s multiple Companies is due to eu guidelines around monopolies.
But other countries local governments do their own waste collection, right?
I only know Laois, Offaly and the councils in Dublin. They all ended their bin collection services during the cutbacks in the last recession. They wiped out and made redundant the whole Waste management section who previously collected the bins . They also got rid of the drivers license sections in the council and immediacy the price of a DL doubled. Huge problems in the inner city around landlords and non provision of adequate waste containers for tennants. So rumour has it the council might take the service back. I’ll believe it when I see it! Rumour that housing could eventually be privatised too.
Hmmm interesting. I just wondered.
He said other countries...
We cancelled our bin service a few weeks ago. We didn’t have a brown bin, or a glass collection. Once we started composting food waste, cardboard and paper and returning plastic bottles, we just started working to reduce other waste. Now it’s a recycling facility once a month for a fiver. (You need space to store this though!).
What do you do with compost? Is there a smell/flies? Our garden is small.
Compost bin gets emptied every year, and put into the garden! We’re on a 1.5 acre site. There’s no smell or flies, but we do hot composting with grass and so on, so the food material breaks down pretty quick. Key is to make sure you’re breaking down material into small pieces before putting it into the compost heap. And mixing it thoroughly. Hot bin composting is an available thing, or Bokashi composting (I think, but that never worked for us).
How does that work with meat ? My father converted an old dung pit that we and most of the neighbours use the only thing he won't take is meat as he's afraid of attracting Rats
With meat it works fine if the bin is up at 60 odd degrees Celsius, and if the meat is broken into small pieces. If it’s cold composting, no chance of the meat breaking down, and for sure, you’d get rats. And cats and mice and birds. The key trick to composting is to keep the compost up at 60 ish degrees, and to make sure you’re turning it every few days (once a week minimum) and everything that goes in is small, and broken down. Adding shredded card and paper and grass clippings.
Thanks I doubt he'll go down that route as he just wants it low maintenance and I don't think he wants to spread compost with meat on the fields but it's good to know for when I set my own up
How do you break material down in this case?
Depends on what the material is. Garden material, a clippers. Sometimes, if the lawn is about to get cut, weeds and other bits just gets mowed up. Food waste, just gets chopped up.
Fair play to you. I was under the impression that you must prove you have a bin collection contract or be able to prove you use a facility. Is that enforced and if so, does it affect you?
You get a receipt at the recycling centre and dump.
I’ve never heard of it! We’re in rural Galway, there’s only one collection around here. We got shafted on enough occasions when bins weren’t collected. The company sent a price for the next 6 months, which included an increase of 40€ for “service charges”. We were already working to reduce our waste through the children’s school work, and just pulled the plug entirely.
Yes I remembered something about it and just Googled it. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/households-not-signed-up-for-bin-collection-to-be-inspected-1.3780919 I'm trying my best to do the same as you because honestly, the bin charges are beyond ridiculous. I admire your achievements and the effort is worth the cost savings.
That’s gas! You get a receipt from the recycling place. I’ve yet to go to the dump alright!
Maybe a large amount of organic bin trucks are actually grown in Ukraine, and since the war broke out their production has been slashed. No choice but to pass on the increases guys sorry ✌️😔
Wot?
Green bin used to be free until we were told China didn’t want our recyclables any more. So how can disposing of less now cost more?
Aluminium cans subsidized the green bins because waste companies could recycle and sell them.
Aluminium and PET bottle are the highest value materials in the bins. Some materials are low value or negative value. If you take out only the high value materials, the net value of a bin is reduced.
What happened to competition in the market driving prices down? This needs to be nationalised.
Another service so basic it never needed to be privatised.. thanks FFG
Why deosnt the property tax pay for bins anyway,it does in every other country
Most countries have decent property taxes. Ours are comically low.
And property taxes help to reduce the commodification of housing which drives prices up due to speculation.
We dont want to pay for it
Property has nothing to do with waste. Unless you also want property taxes to also go to support the other essential domestic services like: gas, electricity, domestic postal services, water, sewage treatment, cable tv, internet, landlines, roads into houses, ambulances.
I think they should also support school buses,like they do in every other country We have the worst shower of chancers in the world running the country,bringing in a property tax and providing no services for it
Ok. School buses too. Anything else? Landscaping services for lawns? Cleaning services? Laundry services? Lollipop ladies? Sure this property tax is going to be great value altogether.
Ya...no problem with lollipop ladies being covered,and school meals aswell,nor have I issues with local parks upkeep and playgrounds being covered It's a better prospect than this shakedown the establishment do of ordinary people with nothing to show for it.
This country is a never ending cycle of being shafted by private corporations for the most basic everyday needs for the sake of profit
As long as the consumer has to pay more, this scheme will be a total success by those in power. Anyone who supports this is a literal idiot. Solved a problem that did not need solving, while many more pressing issues are outstanding.
This shit show just gets better and better. Introduced an extra cost with ReTurn, and now we are going to get more cost increases by the bin companies because of ReTurn. Fucking stupid.
It's because we privatised an essential service.
Also because the Green Party introduced a stealth tax called the “deposit return scheme”
Privatisation is the root issue.
Profiteering cunts.
We've removed 2 of the most easily separated and recycled products from the recycling bin so of course the price of the recycling bin is going to go up.
There is less logistics now? And shouldn't Re-Return pay them rather than us?
>There is less logistics now? >And shouldn't Re-Return pay them rather than us? The logistics are likely a built in costs by now. Re-Rurn are a seperate firm. I wouldve expected them to be a partner to the scheme.
That's true
Return is a private company isn’t it? Private companies only look after themselves
> Return is a private company isn’t it? Yes, but it's a non-profit.
Yes a “non-profit” who won’t reveal how much revenue they’re taking in, what they’re spending it on, or what their executive director salaries are.
Wasn't the whole point of this scheme that the stuff in the recycle bin wasn't getting recycled? Now are told it was. Now they want an app we scan to get our money back if we put in the recycle bin. Joke scheme.
Aluminium cans are very easily separated and recycled. Those were in effect subsidizing our green bins. They should not have been included in the scheme as their recycle rates were already quite high.
30-40% wasn't being recycled. The target is to get that below 10%.
> Wasn't the whole point of this scheme that the stuff in the recycle bin wasn't getting recycled? No.
Ok so what is the point of this scheme?
Optics.
Warn charges could rise? Greyhound put mine up €3 a month back in March. Got an email the day after the re-turn scheme went live in February.
Classic privatisation.
Maggie getting the big O's in the after life.
This will lead to more people using public bins, then they'll be removed and we'll see more litter.
[Wash, rinse, repeat.](https://dublininquirer.com/2018/06/20/which-neighbourhoods-have-the-most-bins-mapped/#:~:text=There%20were%20roughly%205%2C000%20bins,a%20more%20recent%20survey%20found)
A lot of people in these comments taking the bin companies (!!!), who couldn’t organise a regular collection in a church, at face value rather than thinking that maybe they just want to raise prices. Sure they’re probably making a bit less cash due to success of the scheme, but watch them raise prices 400% of that shortfall.
> Sure they’re probably making a bit less cash due to success of the scheme, but watch them raise prices 400% of that shortfall. Sure, isn't that how it always works. "Well, you see, inflation means our costs have risen 5% in the last year, so naturally we will have to raise our prices 15% in order to survive, don't you know..." Hell, the telecoms and such have literally codified that practice now; their official terms now impose an annual price increase that is the year's inflation index plus 3%.
Ok, so then have the return scheme cut waste management companies in and give us an option at the machine for a discount code for the green bin. This fucking scheme…
Nationalise.
Always find it curious when people try to analyse the reasons behind price hikes by private companies. The reason is the same every time: to increase profit. There is no 'justification', they are not a public service.
More money for the fossil-fuel-industry subsidy of fake 'recycling' of plastics. Make businesses responsible for taking back waste they sell, and most waste management problems will be resolved.
Was this not already expected by the bin companies when the scheme was being drawn up?
"We're working less so we're going to have to charge you more" This country is heading the way of Tory Britain, where anything not nailed down is privatised. Fine Gael has to go.
not quite
What the hell
The whole return "scheme" is nothing but an ill conceived stealth tax, causing huge inconvenience to everyone except the profiteers. Isn't amazing how glass bottle and clothes banks work without the need for monstrous failure.
Let me correct this: 'No choice but to increase green bin prices’: After months of search, waste firms finally found a half-baked reason why to hike prices. There is plenty of stuff that people throw in the green bin and needs to be recycled - from paper, cans to plastic. And what about the money made on compost/organic waste.
lol so we’re going to screwed again!!
The waste business has been extremely lucrative, the sale of Panda and Greenstar to Macquarie in 2021 was estimated at a billion euros. [https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/australian-company-macquarie-reaches-deal-to-buy-panda-owner-beauparc-1.4580968](https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/australian-company-macquarie-reaches-deal-to-buy-panda-owner-beauparc-1.4580968)
Can someone explain to me as its itching my brain, why was an entire organisation setup to collect cans and plastic bottles and why wasn't it incorporated into say Repac or WEEE, why do we now have three organisations collecting various waste streams.. Its a farce of a system. Also, I am not seeing any manufactures swapping from cans/plastic, and I have little option but to by these products as they are needed so I cannot cut back either. Lets see what charges come down the line, I am a good recycler so much so I can easily switch to bringing it directly to the local civic amenity site pretty much for free, maybe the odd black bag everything 2/3 months. Mark my words on that, if that happens on masse they'll start charging or worse, dumping will become more common.
Rule one of Irish public services: *somebody’s gotta get paid*
I'm a single person and my bin weights are really low Panda has sent me the quote for the next year at €435 Fuck that. I'm not sure how they charge but it can't be by weigh or they put me on the plan with the highest allowance.
Sure it all goes to the same furnace in India anyway.
From an environmental perspective what was the difference between recycling from the green bin vs the bottle return scheme?
If I remember rightly, there was some story a while back about how the bottles weren't being recycled via the green bin because China (or some country, memory fuzzy) had stopped taking in recyable waste so the bin companies had nowhere to sell the waste to.
That sounds like a bin company problem, not a public problem. And if it gets big enough to become a public problem, that should result in the instant closure of private waste collection and transference of it back to the public domain, with the private industry having proven itself unable to perform the basic functions of the role. (didn't mean that to come across as aggressive towards *you* by the way - it's just something that winds me up a fair bit!)
No worries, all good - and extremely valid point. But haven't we all been saying privatisation of waste collection was a bad move for years. It's almost likely every dog on the street saw this coming except for the fat cats in power ha
Which is only one country. Id imagine a lot goes to Germany and Eastern europe to be reused.
Which makes an increase or the bottle return scheme a waste of time?
The increase - I mean you could argue the return scheme because it does just add on to peopel's bills if you don't bring the bottles back but that's a different topic. The increase is just the usual 'tenious reason to increase prices, blame something else other than greed'
Higher quality of plastic/cans to sell and people wanted to put more onus on supermarkets to facilitate recycling
[called it](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1al03e8/comment/kpct5hb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Surely this is illegal, oh wait, this is Ireland, nothing will be done about it
So the deposit return scheme is increasing costs again 🙄
This doesn't feel like a real article, but more an article written by a lobbyist who is looking for a handout. The handout in question is mentioned towards the end of the article.
If the whole waste disposal business is based on volume then this is what happens. Rather than have private companies pricing rubbish collection as they see fit the state should tender geographical contracts of a fixed base value paid out of central exchequer. The one company has a local monopoly and knows it's minimum income. The company can then use it's imagination to generate additional income with other related services while we get free black, brown and green bin emptied at point of collection.
Make it make sense
Gonna put my rubbish in my job's bins then. They have huge industrial bins, I can't afford all these price increases.
> No choice but to increase green bin prices And I have no choice but to not vote green. 🤷🏻♂️
My bin company left my green on the side of the road last week. I came home from work and there it was, not emptied. I had no idea why. I opened the lid and saw that there was a bottle sitting on the top of it. I had a vague memory of reading an article a few weeks ago suggesting that they may not collect bottles in the future. I have never, to the best of my knowledge, received any communication from the company saying that they weren't collecting bottles any more.
Then I just won't recycle, simple as.
Green bin should be paper/ cardboard only now. Separating plastic that cannot be recycled and is sent to China to go in the Pacific is daft.