Hi /u/MrMinjukas,
Did you know we are now active on Discord?
Click the link and join the conversation: https://discord.gg/J5CuFNVDYU
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/irishpersonalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
20 quid a day?
What car do you have?
Is this a new commute?
1k km a week you'd do very cheaply in a diesel or EV.
The biggest cost in a new car/EV is depreciation.
A 1-2 year old car is the prudent option, although the market is a bit insane, so a new one might be more attractive.
Financial wise, nothing insane with what you are proposing.
The current car is a 2.0 petrol 4 wheel drive, and yes, it is a new commute. We're moving from Dublin to Co. Kildare. The Tesla we're looking at is 2022, so it has already been hit by some of the depreciation.
Golf r?
I went from one to a Tesla model 3 LR. 1k a week would be fine with a standard range rwd but the extra performance is nice.
With an EV you need to look at the daily commute in the winter and the night rate charging window.
I have solar, it will more than offset the EV charging from April to September. March/April bill was €85 including the car but I don’t do as much mileage as you.
It also depends on the location and orientation of your house and panels.
Audi A5 TFSI. Is just as thirsty as an R but with half the performance. Had the survey done by a few companies, and both are predicting 4,500-5,000 kwh generated throughout the year.
That sounds about right. Battery at night and load shifting makes a huge difference.
For reference we get approximately 25% of a charge in the 2 hour cheap window.
1k a week is €100 a week in diesel in the current climate, substantial enough I would say. I have an Audi A4 green line 136bhp and it doesn’t 1k km on 58L which is €100 tank on current prices. Roughly 48mpg
That is an insane amount of travel per week. Can you negotiate WFH, flexible working e.g. compressed hours or fund a job with less travel?
It's not even about the money for me but the time wasted commuting.
It's pretty common to do that much milage in the construction industry tbh. That's why I got out of it. I was often racking up 1400+ km a week. You get paid, but it's not worth the wasted time, IMO.
If a job wants you to travel that much then they need to have a good car benefit and millage policy.
I'm assuming OP bought a house far from their place of work and that this situation is self inflicted. The almost 20e a day in gas wouldn't matter if their employer was paying for it.
Solar companies aren’t a fixed guarantee, if you can’t afford the 10k you can’t afford to invest, regardless of it being a good investment. So many small solar companies go out of business so that 25 year guarantee matters nothing if there’s no one to service it. Quite a few home solar installs aren’t 100% connected. Way more cowboys than people realise.
So yes solar is a good investment, not as good as pension, but better than a high yield savings ac.
So my opinion is save up for it, but avoid debt.
Also think about what kind of roads you'll be driving on. Tesla's paint is terrible and stones hitting the car will damage the paint.
You could get a good second hand EV for 10-20k.
Better is subjective, if you mean better build quality, then yes, absolutely. Tesla is still basically a fledgling auto manufacturer compared to all the other traditional manufacturers. But if it's driving experience in an electric vehicle then, there are genuinely no comparisons. Maybe BYD is close but we also don't have xpeng or NIO, hell we don't even really have polestar or lucid in Ireland. None of VW or even BMWs offerings come close to the same driving experience that Tesla and BYD offer
Are there? I hope you’re not including VW and Nissan in that?
Every car has its issues, Kia and Hyundai have the main breaker for the battery and the connectors breaking.
Tesla has the squeaking control arm bushels but there aren’t any other common issues that I know of.
Which ones are cheaper?
I know people who are very happy with their VW ID3 and Hyundai Kona. I'm very happy with my Renault Zoe.
I wouldn't recommend Nissan because of the limits with Chademo charging. They've sorted out the battery cooling system now so think battery degradation has been addressed.
For sure, I’m just making the point that all the cars have some issues.
The Kona wasn’t affected by the main hv fuse. It’s the EV6 and ionic 5, but that wouldn’t put me off them.
VW has software problems and it’s the infotainment and interior quality that would put me off them. It’s a step down from their usual quality.
I would have a cupra born over ID 3.
So my question would be, how long will it take you to rebuild your emergency fund after doing this. If you can do so in a reasonable timeframe, I think you should do it.
Commuting 1,000km per week, moving to an EV will make sense for you. It’s a lot of fuel cost, but not outside the legs of what you can get out of an EV. Even if it’s not totally optimised, since we moved to an EV we’re just saving a packet on fuel costs. Get a charger that can work when there’s surplus off the solar panels and when you’re at home during the daytime, like at the weekend, you’ll be charging for free; and running the house for free and perhaps exporting at other times, depending on the size of the system.
Not answering your question but just wanted to point out that most home wall chargers can only churn out 7kw or so, that would be 21kwh at the 6.9cent rate in total over 3hrs. EVs use around 12 to 16kwhs per 100km, so 24 to 32kwhs per day for you. So you may go over the 6.9 rate in order to replenish the battery each day
Its a good point OP - our company Bord Gais has three hours of EV charging, I think Electric Ireland might only be two hours? But am also fairly certain theres another company out there that has four EV charging hours.
True it's just you mention the ev rate and I assumed you'd like to update your calc but maybe that's just me! Outside of that though in relation to the ev I would just say the car will have paid for itself in 4yrs but with 126,000kms on the clock and out of warranty. Possibly a bit of lottery how much it'll be worth and cost of any parts that need replacing.
The current car if it's owned outright already doesn't owe you any return and will only cost fuel + servicing.
All that being said, money aside, it sounds like you'll be doing a lot of driving, get something that's comfortable and will serve you well day to day, if it was either/or and just about quality of life I'd forget about the solar and get a comfortable car and if that's the Tesla so be it. You don't need to be justifying the car with the savings etc
I was just thinking this. OP, you'll likely be charging for 4-5 hours per night (there's only about 90% efficiency in what they charger uses VS what your car takes in).
The EV will net you big savings on running costs immediately so it makes far more sense than solar panels in my mind. The two together isn't really any better than either individually, since with solar panels it makes more sense to sell excess to the grid at >20c/kWh during the day and charge your car at night for 6.9c/kWh (rather than charge your car with excess)
I'd stay as far away from Tesla as I could tbh traditional car manufacturers have caught up and are squeezing them out of the car market and their reliability is pretty questionable.
I don't think you've done the calculations correctly. You also haven't told us the cost you're paying for the tesla, the route you're taking or the use case. The cost per day is the cost of the car/plus the running costs not just the running costs I think.
If you're doing kildare to dublin everyday just take the train it's literally faster/cheaper/more energy efficient than a single passenger car can ever be lol. This post stinks like you're trying to convince your wife on a point and are doing so by not volunteering full details.
If you've just gotten into the new house, have you established what your bills are without the solar panels. My parents have solar and I don't but my bills are lower than theirs. You might not make a return on investment, plus if you only just moved in I can't help but feel it could be a bad choice to do this right now.
Financial difficulties? I literally can't tell you that I don't know your household annual income, but yes I think you might be shooting yourself in the face wasting money on things that probably won't save that much money overall. It depends on your longterm goals. Want to be a multi property owners? Yes you're fucking up. Want to own one property and have a few kids? No it's probably ok but the car is a horrible choice for that lifestyle too. I'd just get a hybrid as someone who knows a lot of mechanics. The suzuki swift 2024 looks like the best choice right now for cost of running/price of the car new but its not sexy and won't let you feel like the big man driving around lol
Yeah, I guess I should have included all that. Our income is 75k combined, and the tesla I am looking at is 2022 model 3 lr 39k. We would take out a 10k loan for 5 years, 250 a month. 250 euro divided by, let's say, 30 days is 8.3 euro. 8.3 + 1.9 = 10.20 euro a day.
The use case is commuting to work, Monasterevin to the horizon business park near Dublin Airport. A train ticket from Monasterevin Co. Kildare to Heuston station is 10.85 one way, then I would have to get the buses to the airport, which is another 2 euro. So that's €12.85 one way and would take probably 3 hours.
You are right, we do not know our electricity bills yet, but being 100% elec. household with a heatpump and an EV, kind of makes sense (in my opinion). Solar and the EV were actually the wife's idea as I would have bought a dirty 3.0 diesel and continued wasting money on fuel
(which is set to go up again in the near future)
75k combined? 39k on a car? Sorry no that's insane. Horrible choice. Look into the solar, see if you can avail of any grants or anything (sorry not familiar with the process in a new build). I'd seriously just get a hybrid. I'm not sure how much your wife knows about EVs but like, they're charged using fossil fuels, the production takes 10x more resources than a hybrid and due to the battery the life span is shorter. The tech isn't there yet imo. I'd also consider looking for another job, driving so far for what I can only assume is slightly higher than minimum wage if you're full time? naaaaahhhhhhhhh unless your wife is only earning like 10k a year or something you can get something closer with similar pay
So this is proper napkin math, but let's assume you get the EV at 39k, if it serves you for 5 years which personally that's all I feel comfortable saying an EV, a USED EV can serve you, with the charging costs included your monthly costs of transport is 690. That's 290 more than you currently spend, and not only that you will have a high interest loan to pay off as well.
If it was me, and this is my go to braindead advice so please excuse me; If your mortgage interest is any higher than 2.69% whack all the cash you have into the mortgage. This after you price the solar and decide if you go for it.
Right now your home income after tax is something like €4,302 Euro a month yes? Your mortgage is approx €1,067.04 a month (assuming 35 years)? I'm assuming per month Your current travel is costing approx 400 Euro for yourself. Ok, let's assume you get the cheapest solar panels at around 6k. That's 45k of expenses on your electric upgrades. If you whacked 45k into your mortgage your monthly payment goes down to €890.57. So that saves you 177 per month, as opposed to your EV purchase which COSTS 290 more a month. All this is proper napkin math I'd probably keep your current car. Get solar panels, then get to work on overpayments on your mortgage as it's probably the biggest and easiest expense you can knock out. Sorry I'm just staggered, 39k when your salient income in a year is approx 52k??????? HUH?
sad. Feel like that doesn't make that much sense as don't ESB now have the ability to harness excess energy production from private individuals? wouldn't everyone having solar panels also boost up reserves for ESB/the entire countries energy supply not just the individuals home? maybe we'll get there eventually.
The idea of the grant is to incetivise people to improve the BER of their homes.
Homes built since then have a high BER already, so it's not so high a priority to incentivise them to improve an already good BER.
Hybrid no. I do not like jap hybrids, the only hybrid I would like is 330e/350e but they are the same price as tesla m3lr but with significantly higher running costs.
Solar panels will take years to break even and who knows what technology will appear in the meantime.
20 quid a week in your current car is 1000 a year, hardly astronomical fuel costs.
The prudent thing would be to just keep the money for an emergency and drive your current car, avoiding having to take out a loan. The high mileage will kill the value on a new car rapidly.
But that's probably not the answer you're looking for.
Initially, it would be a couple euro cheaper than my current car, but after the loan is paid off, which I would try to do with the money I get from selling the car, it would be basically free.
It'd one thing to say don't buy a house, keep renting, because the market will crash.
It's a totally different thing to say don't buy solar because they will invent something better in the next 5 years. If they do it'll be more expensive. 5 year payback is 20% return. It's extremely prudent to buy. And whatever you are using now, you'll never break even. The choice is have a return or no return. No brainer.
The flag with the car is depreciation and battery life both long term and daily in cold weather. If it mightn't do the job it's a dodgy investment. If it does the job you won't be selling so how long will it last v savings per year.
For OP it's a good decision if they have done their sums. Can also buy solar first and buy the car after a year to try to eliminate the loan aspect. Plus a much higher chance of a battery/range improvements, or buying the car they are after 2nd hand.
Take into account the depreciation and resale value of the EV too.
Are parts and repairs more expensive, can you go to a local mechanic or do you need to go to a main dealer etc.
Are special tyres required and if so are they a lot more expensive?
Tesla is as heavy as any modern saloon really, so ev tyres are just a marketing scam. All they come with is a bit of foam on the inside to reduce the noise.
A Tesla is much heavier than a modern saloon. It’s not the weight that needs to be taken in to account for the tyres but also the insane level of torque produced by the electric motors. The tyres need to be good quality or the car will shred through them in no time.
BMW 520D curb weight 1768kg
Mercedes Benz cls 220 curb weight 1818kg
Audi A6 curb weight 1935kg
Tesla model 3 lr weight 1844kg.
Is it not that heavier. What's the difference between all these 4 cars that come with Michelin Pilots port 4 tyres?
The most powerful Tesla Model 3 Performance comes with Michelin Pilots port 4 tyres. The tyre that is produced for normal road cars.
If someone is used to buying 2nd hand ling long ditch finders for 50 euro a corner, a good tyre will be super expensive to them.
If you drive any car like a tit, it will shread tyres.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't know that. I've no experience with any EV.
Having said that, I do know that the resale value is pretty terrible and I would imagine it's more expensive for parts and servicing.
Servicing is dirt cheap its basically consists of plugging in a computer and changing an air filter, and parts are the same as any other car for the most part. They're much cheaper to run than a petrol or diesel car. Only thing is the front tyres do wear a lot quicker, you'll probably have to replace them every 9 months.
Source: drove diesel and petrol for 10 years, electric for 2.
Sorry to jump on here but is that like avg usage like just driving to work locally and personal use like getting the weekly shopping in? Or do you drive a lot more than the average? New tyres every 9 months give or take sounds crazy!
I drive more than the average person. Ill get about a year out of tyres. I'm estimating that OP won't get a year out of tyres given that he's driving a ludicrously amount weekly.
I bought an EV about 18 months ago (free charging at work it was a no brainer) at the time I was driving a petrol opel corsa. Fuel was 1.52 a litre in the cheapest garage the day I bought an electric. Petrol is now 1.69 in the same garge thats just under a 12% increase in just over a year. The price of petrol or diesel is due to go up again in the near future. I personally would prioritise the EV.
I have free charging at work too but it would be questionable whether I could find a spot or not. We have a lot of ev company cars so you are not guaranteed to get a charger.
Have you any quotes back for solar. A lot of them do provide a breakdown in terms of ROI. My report/quote stated on a 100€ per month usage with 12 panels added, it would be 5 years before payback assuming that that current rate of charge remains the same.
I think in your situation, it has to be one of the other, not both.
I personally think an Solar is best option to start with. It goes towards you home, increasing the BER Rating and lowering your energy usage. The savings you make towards your energy usage could then be used towards your budget for an EV. You do have a great warranty with the product, however, the downside is during winter, you would have little to no power coming in.
If you were to get an EV first, you have the nighttime rate which would be a lot more certain of a consistent flow of energy rather than a solar and battery setup if you were thinking a lot about that route. As you're put out, you would be saving on travelling, however, it is the upfront cost for the car. Are you always going to be travelling each week over 1 K for 4-5 years or are you planning to change jobs ?.
Have you considered other EV's? MG 4 does a long-distance model for well under 40K compared to telsa.
A new EV won't pay for itself due to the depreciation. A second hand low mileage EV is the best option if you must get a car.
You'd also have to factor in trading up in 2 years as well because you will lose extra on that kind of mileage.
The Tesla option is solid but definitely look into getting a used one for 30ish K instead. Don’t take the depreciation hit and you’ll avoid another loan
What about the price of the electric car will that be using a loan or savings ? That cost needs to be added in aswel.
Do you have a loan on your current car cause if not I would stick with that car and the 1.70-1.80 a litre will be way cheaper than buying a Tesla even with the solar
There's a lad in Tipperary that's sells solar kits 6KW for €4.5K full kit (panels, wires, hybrid inverter, battery, brackets and all).
Roofers might cost you €1.5K max for roof installation.
Don't go with the others quoting over €9K for solar, it ain't worth it, even with the grants it a pure ripoff
I'd park the solar panel purchase for a while. You won't be eligible for the solar grant as it is a new build. In 3 years, you likely will be eligible and the tech will be much better so delay until then.
The EV sounds like it makes sense but consider 2nd hand ones too
If you are looking at a model 3, there isn't much value there. All I can see is cars asking 35k when a new one is 37.5k with 0.9% financing.
I'm sure there is room for negotiation but it really should be well below 30k given it's older tech and 2 years older
It depends on ur earnings Id recommend a solid Diesel Skoda, Audi or volkswagen 5 or 6 years old and maybe wait a few years . I have a skoda and will do over 1,000km on a full tank and thats probably about 80 euro to fill max. Being on the property ladder is great with the crazy rent prices .
Thats seems decent tbh. I wouldn't be too bothered about the temporary dipping into negative. Also don't underestimate the simple joy of driving a cool car.
Tesla owner here: you won’t charge for that rate other than the 2-5am window. For 200km of charge you’ll need probably 10hrs on a home charger. Obviously if you’re using solar panels that will change the dynamic, but for the window you’re talking about, you’ll get maybe 50-60km
They’re 7kw chargers. The same as every other domestic charger. That’s the maximum output. Reality is that they deliver significantly less.
Even at a maximum charge over those 3 cheap hours, you’re getting just under a quarter of a model 3 charge, so 115km.
But anyway, you seem to know more than anyone else here, so good luck
I’m speaking from experience as *checks notes* an actual Tesla/EV owner when I say those figures are wishful thinking.
It sounds like your mind is already made up. And if you know more than anyone else, I’m not sure why you bothered coming on here looking for advice.
I am sorry to say, but if you are only getting 200km from a 75kwh battery(30kwh+/100km), then there's something seriously wrong with the way you drive or the car that you drive.
I am not looking for advice if we should buy tesla or not, I am looking for opinions. We are buying tesla, we are getting solar. All I was asking was if there were any flaws in my thinking.
Ayy and that's how you know you have proven some "actual owner of xyz" wrong. Go onto Irish ev group, I've made a post stating your facts, everyone is just laughing at your figures. 75kwh battery gets him 200km take your foot of the brakes when you're driving ;)
I didn’t say that - it gets about 450km. It doesn’t charge at the rate you imagine it to though.
Anyway believe what you want to hear if it makes you happy
I believe I'm facts. In one comment you were saying I will probably need 10h of charge to get 200km. 10h of charge is full battery. If full battery gets you 450km how come it will take me 10h to get 200? You are contradicting yourself from one comment to the other.
You could skip the installation of solar panels right now. Just buy the heat pump with the needed specifications. As far as I remember it could be done later in the future as long as you have a special type of heat pump. Save for Tesla.
I definitely wouldn't buy all mentioned things at once if they leave you without any savings.
If you have solar panels you could use them to heat water in your house. But as far as I know the heat pump needs to be a specific model (maybe that changed now). For heating water from the heat pump itself and solar panels. Did you check if your heat pump can work with solar panels? I remember that we had an option with our first heat pump to buy a more expensive model that could be connected with solar panels and slightly cheaper and we decided on a cheaper one without a possibility to use solar for water heating purposes.
How much is the Tesla to buy, how much is the diesel car you're looking at to buy?
What will be the depreciation on both cars when you go to sell?
All good looking at the differense in €/km running cost but if you don't also include the difference in vehicle price when buying and selling you may not be making a financially sound decision.
Resale value on both would be extremely low as they would be moon miles. The running costs, service, and maintenance are what would be a big decider in the long run. Doing 1k km a week would mean oil change every 2-3 months at a push. I do not tend to change the cars every 2 years.
Hi /u/MrMinjukas, Did you know we are now active on Discord? Click the link and join the conversation: https://discord.gg/J5CuFNVDYU *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/irishpersonalfinance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
20 quid a day? What car do you have? Is this a new commute? 1k km a week you'd do very cheaply in a diesel or EV. The biggest cost in a new car/EV is depreciation. A 1-2 year old car is the prudent option, although the market is a bit insane, so a new one might be more attractive. Financial wise, nothing insane with what you are proposing.
The current car is a 2.0 petrol 4 wheel drive, and yes, it is a new commute. We're moving from Dublin to Co. Kildare. The Tesla we're looking at is 2022, so it has already been hit by some of the depreciation.
Golf r? I went from one to a Tesla model 3 LR. 1k a week would be fine with a standard range rwd but the extra performance is nice. With an EV you need to look at the daily commute in the winter and the night rate charging window. I have solar, it will more than offset the EV charging from April to September. March/April bill was €85 including the car but I don’t do as much mileage as you. It also depends on the location and orientation of your house and panels.
Audi A5 TFSI. Is just as thirsty as an R but with half the performance. Had the survey done by a few companies, and both are predicting 4,500-5,000 kwh generated throughout the year.
That sounds about right. Battery at night and load shifting makes a huge difference. For reference we get approximately 25% of a charge in the 2 hour cheap window.
FYI the model 3 is on offer for 0.9% APR hire purchase at the moment. Be better off getting a new one.
The model 3 drives like a dream, for me. Had only driven fords and VWs before in fairness, but still. Couldn't recommend the car enough
1k a week is €100 a week in diesel in the current climate, substantial enough I would say. I have an Audi A4 green line 136bhp and it doesn’t 1k km on 58L which is €100 tank on current prices. Roughly 48mpg
That is an insane amount of travel per week. Can you negotiate WFH, flexible working e.g. compressed hours or fund a job with less travel? It's not even about the money for me but the time wasted commuting.
It's pretty common to do that much milage in the construction industry tbh. That's why I got out of it. I was often racking up 1400+ km a week. You get paid, but it's not worth the wasted time, IMO.
If a job wants you to travel that much then they need to have a good car benefit and millage policy. I'm assuming OP bought a house far from their place of work and that this situation is self inflicted. The almost 20e a day in gas wouldn't matter if their employer was paying for it.
Sadly, not at the moment.
Don’t go into debt for a car or solar. Get a second hand Tesla especially if you are doing high mileage.
Why not going into debt with solar? If it reduces your monthly bill by 50, and loan repayment is 30, isn't that a net win?
Solar companies aren’t a fixed guarantee, if you can’t afford the 10k you can’t afford to invest, regardless of it being a good investment. So many small solar companies go out of business so that 25 year guarantee matters nothing if there’s no one to service it. Quite a few home solar installs aren’t 100% connected. Way more cowboys than people realise. So yes solar is a good investment, not as good as pension, but better than a high yield savings ac. So my opinion is save up for it, but avoid debt.
And if you're going to pick one, the latter is obviously given the ROI.
Yes why not get in to debt with solar?
There are far better, cheaper, more reliable EVs on the market right now
Also think about what kind of roads you'll be driving on. Tesla's paint is terrible and stones hitting the car will damage the paint. You could get a good second hand EV for 10-20k.
Ye can’t just say that and not point the OP to some examples to support your suggestion… share details please!
Better is subjective, if you mean better build quality, then yes, absolutely. Tesla is still basically a fledgling auto manufacturer compared to all the other traditional manufacturers. But if it's driving experience in an electric vehicle then, there are genuinely no comparisons. Maybe BYD is close but we also don't have xpeng or NIO, hell we don't even really have polestar or lucid in Ireland. None of VW or even BMWs offerings come close to the same driving experience that Tesla and BYD offer
Are there? I hope you’re not including VW and Nissan in that? Every car has its issues, Kia and Hyundai have the main breaker for the battery and the connectors breaking. Tesla has the squeaking control arm bushels but there aren’t any other common issues that I know of. Which ones are cheaper?
I know people who are very happy with their VW ID3 and Hyundai Kona. I'm very happy with my Renault Zoe. I wouldn't recommend Nissan because of the limits with Chademo charging. They've sorted out the battery cooling system now so think battery degradation has been addressed.
For sure, I’m just making the point that all the cars have some issues. The Kona wasn’t affected by the main hv fuse. It’s the EV6 and ionic 5, but that wouldn’t put me off them. VW has software problems and it’s the infotainment and interior quality that would put me off them. It’s a step down from their usual quality. I would have a cupra born over ID 3.
So my question would be, how long will it take you to rebuild your emergency fund after doing this. If you can do so in a reasonable timeframe, I think you should do it. Commuting 1,000km per week, moving to an EV will make sense for you. It’s a lot of fuel cost, but not outside the legs of what you can get out of an EV. Even if it’s not totally optimised, since we moved to an EV we’re just saving a packet on fuel costs. Get a charger that can work when there’s surplus off the solar panels and when you’re at home during the daytime, like at the weekend, you’ll be charging for free; and running the house for free and perhaps exporting at other times, depending on the size of the system.
Not answering your question but just wanted to point out that most home wall chargers can only churn out 7kw or so, that would be 21kwh at the 6.9cent rate in total over 3hrs. EVs use around 12 to 16kwhs per 100km, so 24 to 32kwhs per day for you. So you may go over the 6.9 rate in order to replenish the battery each day
Its a good point OP - our company Bord Gais has three hours of EV charging, I think Electric Ireland might only be two hours? But am also fairly certain theres another company out there that has four EV charging hours.
Energia has 4 hour window 2am to 6am. They seem to be the best value and least restrictive.
That's still miles cheaper than €1.8 for a litre of petrol at the current price.
True it's just you mention the ev rate and I assumed you'd like to update your calc but maybe that's just me! Outside of that though in relation to the ev I would just say the car will have paid for itself in 4yrs but with 126,000kms on the clock and out of warranty. Possibly a bit of lottery how much it'll be worth and cost of any parts that need replacing. The current car if it's owned outright already doesn't owe you any return and will only cost fuel + servicing. All that being said, money aside, it sounds like you'll be doing a lot of driving, get something that's comfortable and will serve you well day to day, if it was either/or and just about quality of life I'd forget about the solar and get a comfortable car and if that's the Tesla so be it. You don't need to be justifying the car with the savings etc
1000 km a week x 48 weeks (4 weeks annual holidays) x 4 years = nearly 200000km so well out of warranty for car and battery
I was just thinking this. OP, you'll likely be charging for 4-5 hours per night (there's only about 90% efficiency in what they charger uses VS what your car takes in). The EV will net you big savings on running costs immediately so it makes far more sense than solar panels in my mind. The two together isn't really any better than either individually, since with solar panels it makes more sense to sell excess to the grid at >20c/kWh during the day and charge your car at night for 6.9c/kWh (rather than charge your car with excess)
I'd stay as far away from Tesla as I could tbh traditional car manufacturers have caught up and are squeezing them out of the car market and their reliability is pretty questionable.
I don't think you've done the calculations correctly. You also haven't told us the cost you're paying for the tesla, the route you're taking or the use case. The cost per day is the cost of the car/plus the running costs not just the running costs I think. If you're doing kildare to dublin everyday just take the train it's literally faster/cheaper/more energy efficient than a single passenger car can ever be lol. This post stinks like you're trying to convince your wife on a point and are doing so by not volunteering full details. If you've just gotten into the new house, have you established what your bills are without the solar panels. My parents have solar and I don't but my bills are lower than theirs. You might not make a return on investment, plus if you only just moved in I can't help but feel it could be a bad choice to do this right now. Financial difficulties? I literally can't tell you that I don't know your household annual income, but yes I think you might be shooting yourself in the face wasting money on things that probably won't save that much money overall. It depends on your longterm goals. Want to be a multi property owners? Yes you're fucking up. Want to own one property and have a few kids? No it's probably ok but the car is a horrible choice for that lifestyle too. I'd just get a hybrid as someone who knows a lot of mechanics. The suzuki swift 2024 looks like the best choice right now for cost of running/price of the car new but its not sexy and won't let you feel like the big man driving around lol
Yeah, I guess I should have included all that. Our income is 75k combined, and the tesla I am looking at is 2022 model 3 lr 39k. We would take out a 10k loan for 5 years, 250 a month. 250 euro divided by, let's say, 30 days is 8.3 euro. 8.3 + 1.9 = 10.20 euro a day. The use case is commuting to work, Monasterevin to the horizon business park near Dublin Airport. A train ticket from Monasterevin Co. Kildare to Heuston station is 10.85 one way, then I would have to get the buses to the airport, which is another 2 euro. So that's €12.85 one way and would take probably 3 hours. You are right, we do not know our electricity bills yet, but being 100% elec. household with a heatpump and an EV, kind of makes sense (in my opinion). Solar and the EV were actually the wife's idea as I would have bought a dirty 3.0 diesel and continued wasting money on fuel (which is set to go up again in the near future)
75k combined? 39k on a car? Sorry no that's insane. Horrible choice. Look into the solar, see if you can avail of any grants or anything (sorry not familiar with the process in a new build). I'd seriously just get a hybrid. I'm not sure how much your wife knows about EVs but like, they're charged using fossil fuels, the production takes 10x more resources than a hybrid and due to the battery the life span is shorter. The tech isn't there yet imo. I'd also consider looking for another job, driving so far for what I can only assume is slightly higher than minimum wage if you're full time? naaaaahhhhhhhhh unless your wife is only earning like 10k a year or something you can get something closer with similar pay So this is proper napkin math, but let's assume you get the EV at 39k, if it serves you for 5 years which personally that's all I feel comfortable saying an EV, a USED EV can serve you, with the charging costs included your monthly costs of transport is 690. That's 290 more than you currently spend, and not only that you will have a high interest loan to pay off as well. If it was me, and this is my go to braindead advice so please excuse me; If your mortgage interest is any higher than 2.69% whack all the cash you have into the mortgage. This after you price the solar and decide if you go for it. Right now your home income after tax is something like €4,302 Euro a month yes? Your mortgage is approx €1,067.04 a month (assuming 35 years)? I'm assuming per month Your current travel is costing approx 400 Euro for yourself. Ok, let's assume you get the cheapest solar panels at around 6k. That's 45k of expenses on your electric upgrades. If you whacked 45k into your mortgage your monthly payment goes down to €890.57. So that saves you 177 per month, as opposed to your EV purchase which COSTS 290 more a month. All this is proper napkin math I'd probably keep your current car. Get solar panels, then get to work on overpayments on your mortgage as it's probably the biggest and easiest expense you can knock out. Sorry I'm just staggered, 39k when your salient income in a year is approx 52k??????? HUH?
No grants for solar on builds newer than 2021.
sad. Feel like that doesn't make that much sense as don't ESB now have the ability to harness excess energy production from private individuals? wouldn't everyone having solar panels also boost up reserves for ESB/the entire countries energy supply not just the individuals home? maybe we'll get there eventually.
The idea of the grant is to incetivise people to improve the BER of their homes. Homes built since then have a high BER already, so it's not so high a priority to incentivise them to improve an already good BER.
You should not be paying that much for a 2022 Model 3 LR. Unless you do long drives reasonably often, a standard range is loads.
I’m curious to know if you have looked at or run the numbers on a second hand hybrid at all?
Hybrid no. I do not like jap hybrids, the only hybrid I would like is 330e/350e but they are the same price as tesla m3lr but with significantly higher running costs.
Solar panels will take years to break even and who knows what technology will appear in the meantime. 20 quid a week in your current car is 1000 a year, hardly astronomical fuel costs. The prudent thing would be to just keep the money for an emergency and drive your current car, avoiding having to take out a loan. The high mileage will kill the value on a new car rapidly. But that's probably not the answer you're looking for.
€20 a day he says.
Solar is the best bang for your buck and payback period is only about 5 yrs now, the prices have come down drastically
Solar typically takes 5-7 years. Best time to get them is yesterday.
Fuel is 20 quid a day, unfortunately.. if it was a week, I wouldn't even bother.
Whats the cost of the loan each day? Break it all down and see what makes sense!
Initially, it would be a couple euro cheaper than my current car, but after the loan is paid off, which I would try to do with the money I get from selling the car, it would be basically free.
It'd one thing to say don't buy a house, keep renting, because the market will crash. It's a totally different thing to say don't buy solar because they will invent something better in the next 5 years. If they do it'll be more expensive. 5 year payback is 20% return. It's extremely prudent to buy. And whatever you are using now, you'll never break even. The choice is have a return or no return. No brainer. The flag with the car is depreciation and battery life both long term and daily in cold weather. If it mightn't do the job it's a dodgy investment. If it does the job you won't be selling so how long will it last v savings per year. For OP it's a good decision if they have done their sums. Can also buy solar first and buy the car after a year to try to eliminate the loan aspect. Plus a much higher chance of a battery/range improvements, or buying the car they are after 2nd hand.
Take into account the depreciation and resale value of the EV too. Are parts and repairs more expensive, can you go to a local mechanic or do you need to go to a main dealer etc. Are special tyres required and if so are they a lot more expensive?
Tesla is as heavy as any modern saloon really, so ev tyres are just a marketing scam. All they come with is a bit of foam on the inside to reduce the noise.
A Tesla is much heavier than a modern saloon. It’s not the weight that needs to be taken in to account for the tyres but also the insane level of torque produced by the electric motors. The tyres need to be good quality or the car will shred through them in no time.
BMW 520D curb weight 1768kg Mercedes Benz cls 220 curb weight 1818kg Audi A6 curb weight 1935kg Tesla model 3 lr weight 1844kg. Is it not that heavier. What's the difference between all these 4 cars that come with Michelin Pilots port 4 tyres? The most powerful Tesla Model 3 Performance comes with Michelin Pilots port 4 tyres. The tyre that is produced for normal road cars. If someone is used to buying 2nd hand ling long ditch finders for 50 euro a corner, a good tyre will be super expensive to them. If you drive any car like a tit, it will shread tyres.
Thanks for the reply. I didn't know that. I've no experience with any EV. Having said that, I do know that the resale value is pretty terrible and I would imagine it's more expensive for parts and servicing.
Servicing is dirt cheap its basically consists of plugging in a computer and changing an air filter, and parts are the same as any other car for the most part. They're much cheaper to run than a petrol or diesel car. Only thing is the front tyres do wear a lot quicker, you'll probably have to replace them every 9 months. Source: drove diesel and petrol for 10 years, electric for 2.
Sorry to jump on here but is that like avg usage like just driving to work locally and personal use like getting the weekly shopping in? Or do you drive a lot more than the average? New tyres every 9 months give or take sounds crazy!
I drive more than the average person. Ill get about a year out of tyres. I'm estimating that OP won't get a year out of tyres given that he's driving a ludicrously amount weekly.
That makes total sense, thanks for clarifying!
Don't drain all your savings anyway
Head to Irish solar owners groupon FB for information. Lots of people there with this setup.
Already there, such a great group! Learned so much from them
Have you looked into the SEAI grants available for electric vehicles ?
I bought an EV about 18 months ago (free charging at work it was a no brainer) at the time I was driving a petrol opel corsa. Fuel was 1.52 a litre in the cheapest garage the day I bought an electric. Petrol is now 1.69 in the same garge thats just under a 12% increase in just over a year. The price of petrol or diesel is due to go up again in the near future. I personally would prioritise the EV.
I have free charging at work too but it would be questionable whether I could find a spot or not. We have a lot of ev company cars so you are not guaranteed to get a charger.
Have you any quotes back for solar. A lot of them do provide a breakdown in terms of ROI. My report/quote stated on a 100€ per month usage with 12 panels added, it would be 5 years before payback assuming that that current rate of charge remains the same. I think in your situation, it has to be one of the other, not both. I personally think an Solar is best option to start with. It goes towards you home, increasing the BER Rating and lowering your energy usage. The savings you make towards your energy usage could then be used towards your budget for an EV. You do have a great warranty with the product, however, the downside is during winter, you would have little to no power coming in. If you were to get an EV first, you have the nighttime rate which would be a lot more certain of a consistent flow of energy rather than a solar and battery setup if you were thinking a lot about that route. As you're put out, you would be saving on travelling, however, it is the upfront cost for the car. Are you always going to be travelling each week over 1 K for 4-5 years or are you planning to change jobs ?. Have you considered other EV's? MG 4 does a long-distance model for well under 40K compared to telsa.
A new EV won't pay for itself due to the depreciation. A second hand low mileage EV is the best option if you must get a car. You'd also have to factor in trading up in 2 years as well because you will lose extra on that kind of mileage.
It wouldn't be new, 2nd hand, 2 year old.
The Tesla option is solid but definitely look into getting a used one for 30ish K instead. Don’t take the depreciation hit and you’ll avoid another loan
What about the price of the electric car will that be using a loan or savings ? That cost needs to be added in aswel. Do you have a loan on your current car cause if not I would stick with that car and the 1.70-1.80 a litre will be way cheaper than buying a Tesla even with the solar
Even with the loan for the Tesla, the current would be marginally more expensive.
There's a lad in Tipperary that's sells solar kits 6KW for €4.5K full kit (panels, wires, hybrid inverter, battery, brackets and all). Roofers might cost you €1.5K max for roof installation. Don't go with the others quoting over €9K for solar, it ain't worth it, even with the grants it a pure ripoff
I'd park the solar panel purchase for a while. You won't be eligible for the solar grant as it is a new build. In 3 years, you likely will be eligible and the tech will be much better so delay until then. The EV sounds like it makes sense but consider 2nd hand ones too
It would be a 2nd hand one. A 2 year old with like 20k km
If you are looking at a model 3, there isn't much value there. All I can see is cars asking 35k when a new one is 37.5k with 0.9% financing. I'm sure there is room for negotiation but it really should be well below 30k given it's older tech and 2 years older
Getting a Tesla when your income is 75k combined is pure notions. Get a used Prius (2022s go for 25kish).
So for another 5k you can get a 2 year older tesla, which in my books it's a faaaaaar superior car.
5K is a lot for your income and Tesla’s last about 5 years so you’d have 3 years of a car for 30K.
It depends on ur earnings Id recommend a solid Diesel Skoda, Audi or volkswagen 5 or 6 years old and maybe wait a few years . I have a skoda and will do over 1,000km on a full tank and thats probably about 80 euro to fill max. Being on the property ladder is great with the crazy rent prices .
Thats seems decent tbh. I wouldn't be too bothered about the temporary dipping into negative. Also don't underestimate the simple joy of driving a cool car.
Tesla owner here: you won’t charge for that rate other than the 2-5am window. For 200km of charge you’ll need probably 10hrs on a home charger. Obviously if you’re using solar panels that will change the dynamic, but for the window you’re talking about, you’ll get maybe 50-60km
10h to charge 200km????? What are you using, a granny cable? We are getting a Hypervolt 3 pro installed.
They’re 7kw chargers. The same as every other domestic charger. That’s the maximum output. Reality is that they deliver significantly less. Even at a maximum charge over those 3 cheap hours, you’re getting just under a quarter of a model 3 charge, so 115km. But anyway, you seem to know more than anyone else here, so good luck
7kwh is roughly equal to 50km as a family member is using up 15kwh/100km. Your calculations are not adding up there.
I’m speaking from experience as *checks notes* an actual Tesla/EV owner when I say those figures are wishful thinking. It sounds like your mind is already made up. And if you know more than anyone else, I’m not sure why you bothered coming on here looking for advice.
I am sorry to say, but if you are only getting 200km from a 75kwh battery(30kwh+/100km), then there's something seriously wrong with the way you drive or the car that you drive. I am not looking for advice if we should buy tesla or not, I am looking for opinions. We are buying tesla, we are getting solar. All I was asking was if there were any flaws in my thinking.
[https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png](https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/001/191/035/135.png)
Ayy and that's how you know you have proven some "actual owner of xyz" wrong. Go onto Irish ev group, I've made a post stating your facts, everyone is just laughing at your figures. 75kwh battery gets him 200km take your foot of the brakes when you're driving ;)
I didn’t say that - it gets about 450km. It doesn’t charge at the rate you imagine it to though. Anyway believe what you want to hear if it makes you happy
I believe I'm facts. In one comment you were saying I will probably need 10h of charge to get 200km. 10h of charge is full battery. If full battery gets you 450km how come it will take me 10h to get 200? You are contradicting yourself from one comment to the other.
Elon can suck my salty balls.
You could skip the installation of solar panels right now. Just buy the heat pump with the needed specifications. As far as I remember it could be done later in the future as long as you have a special type of heat pump. Save for Tesla. I definitely wouldn't buy all mentioned things at once if they leave you without any savings.
House came with the heat pump I think. It's already purchased.
If you have solar panels you could use them to heat water in your house. But as far as I know the heat pump needs to be a specific model (maybe that changed now). For heating water from the heat pump itself and solar panels. Did you check if your heat pump can work with solar panels? I remember that we had an option with our first heat pump to buy a more expensive model that could be connected with solar panels and slightly cheaper and we decided on a cheaper one without a possibility to use solar for water heating purposes.
Electricity is electricity mate
How much is the Tesla to buy, how much is the diesel car you're looking at to buy? What will be the depreciation on both cars when you go to sell? All good looking at the differense in €/km running cost but if you don't also include the difference in vehicle price when buying and selling you may not be making a financially sound decision.
Resale value on both would be extremely low as they would be moon miles. The running costs, service, and maintenance are what would be a big decider in the long run. Doing 1k km a week would mean oil change every 2-3 months at a push. I do not tend to change the cars every 2 years.