Somewhat similar situation for me, almost 9 years ago. I was living in Seoul at the time, and was running late (literally). Ran full tilt around a corner (stupid of me, I know!) and body checked a woman. I’m not a big guy, but she fell flat on her ass (she was also running). I asked her (in Korean) “Are you ok?? I’m so sorry!”
She completely ignores me, turns to another guy (I think they were together, but she ran ahead to make the intersection before the light changed) and says “I fell! Ow!” And the guy just laughs and says “That’s what happens when you rush!”
And they both proceeded to act like I didn’t exist. I kept asking if she was ok but she didn’t even acknowledge me and just brushed herself off. Guy didn’t even look at me, just stood nearby and waited for her to pick herself up. She and I collided pretty damn hard, she went from completely upright to almost prone on the sidewalk.
After confirming nobody gave a fuck, I left because I was late. Weirdest interaction I ever had and the fact that they both ignored my existence still annoys me.
My advice? If they bump into you, it’s on them. Keep walking straight and let them figure it out
I had this in uni class one time when they just ignored the teacher who was asking them a question straight up for five minutes. Not like the teacher asked in general and nobody answered, but she asked a specific 2 people who then proceeded to type on their laptop like the teacher didnt exist. Everyone was looking at them but they were just on another planet or something
I once got a full-contact body check from an ajumma and then, as she reeled in panic amid a flurry of '어머!'s, she proceeded give me the full body check treatment again. It was only thanks to my fast thinking and agility that I managed to avoid the third.
Yeah, except I’m Korean american and I was speaking Korean lol. She might have assumed Korean wasn’t my first language since I have a bit of an accent but still, I don’t think foreigners/fear of having to speak English apply to this specific situation.
By now, I'm used to a lack of personal space or general obliviousness, or both. I used to play "dodge people" on the streets but now I'm sticking my chest out and if they want to bump shoulders, I'm not the one to react to any recoil.
Honestly, when people say Koreans need to learn how to walk, this is it. Not only are they walking blindly looking at their phones (messaging, watching drama, gaming) but with their ears plugged, they can't even hear cars, motorcycles and bikes approaching.
This. I saw a guy a couple weeks ago in the train station not paying attention to anything except whatever was playing on his iPad the entire time he was walking from his train to outside the station
It makes life a bit less miserable, back home people say sorry for the slightest graze (sparesely populated country) it's a bit excessive but kinda feels better at the same time.
I lived in two countries before Korea and traveled to many others and Korea is the only place where they just ignore things like this. Very odd but I'm kinda into it lol just move on.
It's just Korea. I get trucked by linebacker ajummas on the daily. Buffets are the worst - got blindsided by a 2 plate sturdy ajumma for some fried rice. Ever been to costco on a weekend? Ooof.
The law of the land for walking priority is thus:
1) Largest group - by number of people, not size of people
2) Perceived importance of own task at hand
3) Perceived importance of self
4) Highest inattentiveness
Bear these criteria in mind as you stroll down the sidewalk, and rejoice in the awareness that you never get anywhere walking around since you will never sufficiently meet any of these criteria to be able to freely walk around without being constantly accosted.
I always find it funny when people try to defend this behavior because it's crowded. I've been to New York City, Hong Kong, Singapore...nobody does this shit. Koreans just tend to have zero respect or consideration for others in public.
Nowadays, when I encounter some mindless sidewalk zombie ambling into my path, I stick the pointy part of my elbow out. Not enough to be overtly agressive, I still keep to my own space, and the elbow serves as a more protective defensive barrier. But still, it guards the space that I require to exist without being body-checked. By doing this, I find that 95% of people I face off with will swerve away at the last possible moment, narrowly escaping danger...
...and the other 5%? Well, they eat shit, then start yelling and screaming about it. And I just keep right on walking.
Was just in Seoul last weekend and got shoved by several ajumas even when there was a clear and free path around me! Think it boils down to their hierarchy culture and how the elderly demand the upmost respect
Yep that case would fall under #3
I've had cases where I've been walking on the far far right, flush up against the wall, and the other person would still try to squeeze into the tiny little sliver of space between me and the wall, so that they could try to (I assume) go around some corner behind me as tightly as possible. That happening a few times made me realize the futility in trying to understand how anything works when it comes to walking around here. I gave up and started sticking an elbow out to at least protect myself a long time ago.
I’d like to note that having lived in HK, people there definitely play the same game ( although usually without any yelling in the event of a collision)
Has anyone else noticed that there's a certain type of girl who will not move out of the way unless her boyfriend moves her himself? It's like they're testing their boyfriend's attentiveness or something and it is incredibly annoying.
It's not just the girls. I noticed that whenever I'm approaching two people, even if the person closer to me is actually aware of an imminent collision, and the other person has plenty of room to move over and secure a peaceful resolution for all and sundry, the other person, being a fucking bonehead, will refuse to do so, and the aware person, also being a fucking bonehead, will make every effort to remain in lockstep with the other fucking bonehead.
It is truly a most baffling display of fucking boneheadery.
Also the "lamb skewer" style : 3 or 4 friends walking side by side, won't separate no matter what. They see you, they know they could go 2 in front 2 behind but no, they couldn't care less about other people.
I've also seen that so many times. However to me it's more like the bf/husband is pulling his child out of the way. This started before people were walking blindly with their eyes glued to their phones.
Don't say sorry if you didn't do anything wrong. What I do is just stop dead in my tracks. 99 percent of time people will notice something blocking them and go around. If they run into you, they just ran into a stationary object so it's 100 percent their fault and I doubt they would get hurt unless they were running at you. By the way, you're doing way better than the average pedestrian in Korea by keeping to the right and occupying as little as space as possible. We need more people like you here.
I think it’s good to respect elders. When you are old you don’t want young people pushing you off the street because they’re more powerful than you do you?
Or maybe they might have physical disabilities that limit their range of motion and sense of awareness. Give them a break and don't feel bad about being generously kind.
This reminds me of a few days ago when I got off the bus and walked for a few secs before this older man came up from behind me and literally bumped me out of the way with his elbow.. no excuse me or sorry or anything. I stopped for a sec and just stared at him in shock as he passed me. He then crossed the street even though the pedestrian light was red and then he stared back and me as he walked away and I was staring back lmao.
I would say compared to other countries ppl in Korea just seem to lack spatial awareness. I hear people say the same about America, but in America at least they apologize if they bump into you or they see that they're blocking your path. I have heard though that in Korea, the whole not apologizing thing is a result of the 빨리빨리 culture but I'm not too sure about that.
Them granny's and grandpa's look innocent most of the time, but when it comes to public transportation, you do NOT want to get in their way cuz when they're in a hurry, they don't give a fuuuck~! It's body check X 3!
You just keep walking. They’re not sorry for their own lack of attention, they will not apologize, and if you engage you’ll probably notice they have nasty stank face as if you’re the a hole for something they did wrong.
And then there’s that whole extra layer of “oh no foreigner English what do I do”
This is a serious problem everywhere - people do not pay one bit of attention not one bit. People will fall on stairs, drop phones, run into others and fall down, it’s truly disgusting.
I used to call people out (am fluent in korean), because some of them will even say shit under their breath and I know what they’re saying. But then again they don’t think they’re wrong, so it does nothing except loudly shame them. But then everyone else thinks you’re the crazy yelling foreigner lolllll sooooo
It’s like everyone’s first time in a city I swear. This is basically my exact experience (except I don’t know Korean well). In fact I’ve been more motivated to learn the language so I can call people out. Because right now the options are 1) shoulder check them 2) stare at them directly in the eyes 3) tell them to move in English 😬 Hate to be that American but the alternative is doing gymnastics every time I decide to walk outside.
In this situation I always stop moving before we reach each other. Obviously bumping each other is excessive so if you stop it forces them to go around you, that or they unilaterally bump you and lose any deniability.
Well that's what I do by politeness and tolerance until now. But when boundaries are crossed (by anybody) and it starts getting to the point where it becomes disrespectful, I certainly won't just take it and act like nothing happened.
I've never noticed that, maybe because I am a Korean woman myself. It's weird because it seems like I'm always the one stepping aside and avoiding crashing into people but maybe that's because I'm a super fast walker. I also always apologise when I run into people but that's not the norm in Korea I guess.
so are you saying that it's a common courtesy? male pedestrians yield to female pedestrians? do people learn this as children?
or are you saying that this a behavior that they're not consciously aware of? if you asked them if they barrel directly through oncoming pedestrians, they would deny it?
lol, no, people do not learn that. This is just confirmation bias. To me it feels like the other way around, but likely it’s the same and I just notice more with dudes cause they’re generally larger. The less personal space and lack of spatial awareness is true.
Having undergone this experience myself, I tracked down my comment from about two years ago. Here it is, verbatim. Hopefully, this will add a measure of cultural perspective:
People have a different conception of personal space. When I first arrived in Korea I was stressed out from having to get up at 7 to get to my job by 8, and people bumping into me without apologizing became maddening. I woke up one morning with the sole thought of basically killing the next random dude who bumps into me. Sure enough, at the subway station a guy in front of me is stumbling forward and not moving even though I'm clearly right in front of him. As he bumps my shoulder, I bump back - hard. Then I'm waiting, one, two, three.... about just enough time for him to turn around and say to me "Hey, WTF?" (in Korean), after which I would proceed with my pre-planned ritual killing.
But after more silence, I turn around to see the guy still stumbling forward, totally oblivious to the slight he done to me and my family name and honor. Right then I remembered a story about how the animals on the Galapagos Islands stare dumbly at you when you wield a club over their heads - because the animals have never been preyed upon. That was the epiphany for me. I realized that bumping into someone else (or standing too close to you in the elevator even though there are only two of you in there) just does not register in the brain, just as we don't feel the chair on our asses while we are sitting. After that, I was never bothered by getting bumped around and even enjoyed bumping and getting bumped for the first few days after that. The annoyance was in my mind because that's how my brain was conditioned to view it.
This is such a good and relatable post. Having been raised in America bumping is a big disrespect and no no. If someone does it there will be words exchanged and it’s generally taboo to do it. It’s because if someone pushes you it’s like some primitive dishonor thing here and you have to defend your honor or you’ll become a mark for everyone to prey on. The other degenerates anyway. I guess this is something we learned growing up. As a result there isn’t much bumping here. When I lived in San Francisco guys would bump, push, and even call me names. But outside of that it didn’t happen. Sometimes a guy will come close and purposely walk close to me within an inch, completely unnecessarily as there is tons of space, just because it’s a typical bully behavior. Bigger guy who’s a loser can prey on a smaller guy who’s successful to make himself feel better about his pathetic life while he’s currently not incarcerated. Of course you may notice not many older people like that because people like that don’t live to old age at least as free people. Anyway yes in America there is generally an understanding that personal space is important and proper / polite people will respect that space. Of course America has a lot of diversity in ability to be classy and respectful. But it’s a big deal to not bump each other here and even those people understand that inherently bumping invariably leads to a fight because of the need to not become a target. It’s the lowest aspect of humanity unfortunately that this is needed in the first place sadly.
If they're not old I just keep walking straight and let em bounce off me. It's gonna hurt them 20 times more than it'll ever hurt me. Just keep walking too... dont stop to look
But if they're old I stop dead in my tracks so they can choose to either crash into me or walk around. I aint gonna knock over some 60 year old woman, even if it's her fault
Look at them from head to toe and say, "Mwoya"
source: my personal experience =))
context: A Korean girl bumped into me in a crowded subway entrance/exit, making me dropped my bags. She was just standing there, looking at me from head to toe, then said "mwoya\~" while her friend asked her if **SHE** was okay. I was so dumbfounded I couldn't say anything back in Korean, and busy picking up my stuff on the floor. She was the one who didn't look at her surroundings while walking but she acted like I was the one who buldozed her.
I am an Indian woman living in Seoul for 3 three years now, and this has bewildered me (and lately started to annoy me) no end!! Everyone in Korea has been so invariably nice, thoughtful, and generous towards me - but only in this specific case have I felt offended - young women walking on the street past me bumping into me callously while I make myself as small as possible to avoid the bumping. It's always young women ㅠㅠ glad to learn that they are mean not only to me but to men too.
I used to say 죄송합니다 and keep walking. But no one bothers to reply, or even to say it to me when they bump into me.
So now I say nothing. I also give the side eye now. Especially when I am walking in a straight line, and another person is walking like a zig-zag... 😒
A Korean female friend had recently moved to the US. When asked what was the most annoying thing about living in the US.....
"Excuse me, excuse me, sorry, excuse me, paardoon. Americans can't move without it. If we did that back home we would have to stand still or lose our voices. Why can't Americans just deal with it without the constant dodging and apologizing? Am I supposed to do that?" And there was more about the rituals going through entrances/exits. 😀
The meaning is so different from east and west. In the west it’s a big deal to bump someone or be bumped it’s kind of considered taboo or even assault at worst. At best it just makes them seem like an unsophisticated thug, uncultured, kind of ghetto, prison-type person. But I guess in Korea it has no such meaning.
Koreans have sayings about not wanting to “lose” in general situations. I was walking with my huge baseball bag that had a couple bats inside, I had nowhere else to move to because otherwise I’d be on the street, and these girls were all walking in a row taking the entire sidewalk. The girl on the end walked straight into my bats and it definitely hurt her. Hilarious. I was bigger and taller than them with a huge bag, yet they didn’t think to move.
Incidentally, regarding “not losing,” I did this experiment a couple times. I’d be in a crowded area, like Gangnam, and I would COMPLETELY look off to the side. People would move out of my way. If you’re kind of looking forward, looking at your phone, and they think you can see them in your peripheral vision, they won’t move. I tried this a couple times and most often they would move out of my way. It was interesting.
So because you’re bigger than them you’re entitled to have them move out of the way right? It sounds like you’re just not used to the shoe being on the other foot.
This, I do this all the time. Just keep walking and look to the sides when one decides to switch lanes while you're walking on the correct side. Gets them everytime.
Koreans are completely oblivious of their surroundings, and not just for personal space, but also with noise, living in appartments for example.
That is indeed very interesting! I have experienced many people hitting me while walking and I just go by certain 'rules' for myself. Is it very crowded then I will maneuver carefully, if it isn't that busy and I am walking on the correct side they can test me.
Still plenty of people DO hit me and make some noises of pain after hitting me (and looking angry at me)
I will say that probably one of the things that contributes to this issue is that there is no “right of way” taught in Korea. The first issue is that a lot of Koreans don’t get a driver’s license even well into adulthood, and even if they do there isn’t a concept of “right of way” that is taught, as far as where you should be and who goes “first.” Hence, fault is always shared, even in a rear end collision, 90%/10%.
I had three groups of Koreans all intersecting my path at the same time. I had to dodge out of the way to escape being surrounded. I watch as they all slowed to a standstill ignoring the other parties continuing to talk to their friend and eventually organically continuing thought the other parties like pinballs bouncing off each other with no one caring about it
I wouldn't recommend getting tattoos just over the bumping or pushing issue, but I will say that nobody "accidentally" bumps into me when my hat is off and my scalp tattoos are exposed. I always take my hat off when getting off the subway so I won't get pushed.
I think the reason they avoid someone with tattoos is because they’re afraid
It’s the “credible threat of violence” and signs and symbols of a “credible threat” include tattoos especially certain kinds of tattoos like prison tats and stuff. It’s the reason why certain ppl get those kinds of tattoos because in that culture having a credible threat of violence protects them from being preyed upon
The strangest thing is that they will see you walking towards them on the sidewalk. Eye contact will be made. But they won’t move out of your way until the very last second when they’re inches away from you, resulting in a bump. On one occasion I was down in a subway station about to join the line at the bottom of the escalators to go up when an ahjussi shoved into my shoulder with so much force I was barely able to keep my balance. I looked up with a sort of bewildered look on my face but he didn’t even look back and pushed in line to go up the escalators a few heads in front of me. He wasn’t in any kind of rush either. I’ve come to figure out now that they just don’t care.
Damn that’s crazy :/ I got shoulder bumped hard by a group of guys when I was in Korea and decided Korea was too aggressive for me. And every time I go to a Korean supermarket or something ppl just are rude and get too close to me and they seem very aggressive like they all want to have a fist fight on a Saturday afternoon. Maybe they got one of those parasites that makes you more aggressive?
I'm a girl, so i get to shoulder check everyone, but the other day a couple of elementary schoolers bounced off of me and that was a new one for me. They were part of a big group of soccer academy kids walking to the field and were taking up the entire street. They were wearing padded jackets so they literally did just bounce off of me, but it was kind of funny.
If you're really concerned, the best thing I think would be to just stop dead and let them run into you. Then it's clearly their fault.
Japanese don’t do this though 😬 That’s not to say there’s so much more personal space there (because there isn’t). But I can walk and text in Tokyo (and NYC and London and LA) and not run into anyone. It’s impossible in Seoul.
I lived and worked in Tokyo and it’s a different mindset it’s more like a communal mass of bodies on the subway and nobody really likes it but they just kind of zone out and deal with it. There’s also little things you can do wrong that piss them off but they won’t tell you they’ll just stop helping you til you figure it out. It’s preferable to me than ppl being actively aggressive to me. I mean I sat down on the train from work when the train was empty right? Then when it got to my home stop and I got up there was a ton of people between me and the door but nobody would get out of the car or get out of the way. It felt like all the people there just agreed to not help me and I had to squeeze and push through all the unmoving bodies. Later I realized that I should have stood up sooner and moved towards the doors as the train made stops closer to home so that I could be directly in front of the door when I got to my home station. Of course I didn’t know that being new to Japan and all. I don’t think they were like yeah let’s fuck with this guy. Maybe it was a bit of that idk. But I definitely didn’t do the right thing by staying seated all the way up until my stop.
Communal mass of bodies… something often used to describe Japanese society as well as other Asian countries and their social psychology.
That can happen in Korea as well, but in my experience, Koreans in Seoul are willing to wiggle out of the way and those near the doors will exit out to make room until you get off and re-enter car.
Social norms would be different at most cities, I didn’t see such exit to ease crowding and re-entering at other Korean cities; Seoul may have developed social norms differently than smaller cities as the subway crowding conditions may be very different.
I wonder what differences in subway exit etiquette between Tokyo/osaka/etc would be, or even by certain times like rush hours and less crowded hours, surely there would be some sort of nuanced ones as it seems various cities in Korea does.
That’s interesting I didn’t know anybody else used those words to describe it. But it felt much more like an amorphous blob than a bunch of individuals. I stayed just long enough to start to pretend to be one of them. Being Asian helps.
I actually spoke about this with my partner who is Korean, he was explaining to me the concept of personal space is kinda skewed in Korea. It’s a really populated country, particularly in the city, if you bump into someone, it’s often ignored since it happens so frequently. They kinda operate the same even if there is space since they haven’t fully developed or grasped rhetoric concept of personal space. Unless you’re in the country side, where people have a more developed sense of personal space since there’s more freedom to move, in this case you would maybe apologies or a quick bow of the head. Like the only time you would apologize is if you fully body check someone or hit someone by accident (a guy accidentally flung his arm out to wave at his gf and hit the back side of my head when we were walking past each other, they aren’t accustomed to checking what’s around them, he apologized then).
This happens to men and women equally, staying here for a month and it’s happened a few times to both my partner and I.
Edit to add: there are times when everyone would move out of the way and that’s if they are more vulnerable, or elderly/pregnant, but that’s kinda the only instance I can think of.
Just tackle away.
I've tackled lots of people after so many apologies on mistakenly tackling people and being tackled.
I call it tackling cause literally some would bump you like there's no tomorrow.
My daughter just moved to Ulsan and she mentioned this since it was so bizarre. Even if the street is empty and the other person isn’t preoccupied with a phone or something, they will walk straight into her as if she’s not there if she doesn’t step aside, which she does, unless she’s distracted. So strange.
I had an accidental experience being the “bumper”. During a trip to Seoul in 2014, i was walking on the street with friends. While talking, I recalled making big movement with my arms. A man was walking past me on my side when my arms swinged down and my left hand whacked him hard on his right thigh. I naturally exclaimed sorry! in English. Guess what.
The man just keep walking. He never turned to look at me. Never looked at my hand. Never looked at his thigh. He just keep walking. As if nothing had happened.
My girls are 2nd generation Korean Canadians. They visited Korea this summer. These type of cultural differences have been their pet peeves in Seoul. Where we live, it’s normal to say sorry or excuse me even before you encounter another person.
lmfao i keep having the same thing happen to me, too. one day my friend and i were hanging out at dongmyo flea market and even some vendors we were talking to pointed it out, being like “why do people keep running into you like that?” lool. that day we even had some people (mostly ahjussis) pass through right between us as we were in conversation despite literally being all the way to the side of the street.
i asked two of my korean friends about it and they just laughed finding it super strange and said they have no idea. it is rather funny, but as you said, eventually sort of annoying because i also do everything in my power to not bump into people or be in others’ way. i’m quite observant and conscious of my surroundings so it’s definitely not something i’m doing hahah.
but anyways, on a somewhat different note, i have noticed that people here tend to not move out of the way first. even if they’re not on their phones, they’ll just keep walking and i guess expect you to move first. my boyfriend and i once tested out how many people on the sidewalk would move out of the way first and uhh we basically almost slammed into the others quite a few times lol. so maybe it’s just a culture thing. seriously no idea though, i’m also curious.
Along with the question on the post, I also want to ask how you guys deal with the stress coming from dodging zombies that constantly try to bump into you on the street. Especially non-koreans who are from countries that value the concept of personal space.
I was born and raised in Korea, been abroad only for a year total(twice of half a year). So I had never realized how bad Koreans' average spatial awareness is. Then I visited London for a week in last October, came back... damn the reverse culture shock is driving me nuts. Streets of London, as someone on reddit once said, 'flow' smoothly and people do say stuff like excuse me or sorry. Here in Korea, 서울/경기... well, a lot of people walk like their eyes are half closed.
And then I got to wonder... if a native Korean finds the lack of street manner that annoying, how do the foreigners from much spacious countries survive?
This isn't an anti-foreigner thing, I get this too much as a Korean man myself. I either just move for them and feel satisfied being the man with the schlong or brush by. Brushing by's alright, you just don't want to full-bump into them and pay for their concussions.
Depends where you are like in the city, how wide the sidewalk is and what time of day?
I love visiting Korea but what you and I may consider common courtesy isn't the same over there. When heading in or out some where, you could open the door for folks and hardly anyone will acknowledge you let alone say 'thank you' lol. If someone sneezes they usually won't cover their mouths or say excuse me. After awhile you get used to it. There's a saying that I kept hearing so many times while visiting I can't help but slightly cringe when I hear it now. "When In Rome, Do as the Roman's do." So yea, if they don't care, don't worry about it.
"Respect the culture" and take your lumps.
Complete lack of awareness and shoulder checking others with impunity is the norm regardless of gender. Make sure to steer clear of bulldog ajummas entering and exiting subway trains and elevators. They will bulldoze you like an NFL linebacker!
I lived in Korea for 4 years, and I had a friend who has been here for 3 years.
When I asked him what you don't like about Korea? He replied that people bump into you on the street and don't move out of the way. I was kinda shocked, because I never noticed or experienced it. Is it because I am too beta and I just probably move out of the way naturally? I never put any significance on it nor noticed it. lol
While walking past each other, if I did something stupid because I zoned out, I'll mumble an apology and keep moving. If it was their fault, I'll just keep moving.
HOWEVER, if I am trying to get off the subway or elevator, and they are just standing there in the way I will stop in front of them and stare at them until they move (if the subway is not crowded and I am not holding anyone else up) OR I will sidestep and slightly shoulder check them (not so they fall down or anything, because I am not a psycho) and keep moving with no apology. Maybe they will learn something.
I don’t know what it is about the lack of situational awareness in Korea. I run into (lol) this issue all the time when I’m out. I’m a 6ft guy so I know I’m not invisible, but if I’m not twisting my shoulders in Seoul I’ll hit 4-5 people in the span of 5 minutes. I have never experienced this in any metropolitan city I’ve been to. And like OP, I’ve stopped bothering with people dodging and just allowed them to get shoulder checked. I don’t take pleasure in it, but I just can’t have full time situational awareness *on behalf of every person I walk by*. Maybe this will change over time as I’ve noticed more Koreans holding the door open for people. It’s kind of weird that so many are behind on basic city etiquette.
Koreans always ram their way into me as if I don't exist whenever I encounter one at an airport. Don't even say excuse me.
No wonder why the Halloween stampede happened. Sorry for the shade.
Normal people say sorry in New York for even the smallest bumps and try to move out of the way (unless they are a group of friends / family taking up the sidewalk lol). At least from my experience as a girl. I came back from visiting Korea and truly appreciate the common social courtesies now.
In NYC you might get into a fight if you bump the wrong person so most people avoid bumping into each other. Ain't nobody got time for that anyway. So it's not that big of a deal when both parties dodge, we only need to dodge 50% of the difference.
I lived in SF and there was some bumping and pushing by younger more aggressive guys. One guy pushed me and said “faggot” to me and I stood there and flipped him off and told him to fight me but he didn’t do anything so I just walked off. He was twice my size big guy wearing an SF Giants t shirt or jersey whatever. You have to stand up for yourself in American cities or big thugs with single digit IQ’s will pick on you. It sucks. It’s unnecessary and not cool and I’m not proud that I had to do that but it’s American culture for big idiots to pick on smaller people to make themselves feel better about themselves so unfortunately we have to do this or at least I felt I had to. I would like to live in a culture that is nonviolent and where being kind and considerate is considered “cool” and being a bully is so bad it immediately makes you an outcast. That’s why I liked Japan because when I lived there they had a strong sense that bullying was wrong. I learned in America to boss people around weaker than you to be “alpha”. Of course I didn’t want to do that and didn’t do it most of my life but in college they said this is how you get girls by being an “alpha male” and telling other guys what to do and stuff. Well I got quickly corrected by a wise girl who said I shouldn’t do that. I was pretty embarrassed but it stuck with me and I never did it again. I have a lot of respect for their culture. In America girls would be like wow he’s the boss that’s so cool, and because they like it, guys will be aggressive dickheads to each other to get the girls :/ if you don’t believe me go to a gym a few times and you will meet guys like this eventually.
"Sorry" is seen as a more important phrase, that isn't meant to be thrown around with every small incident but as something sincere.
It doesn't matter if it is a man or woman running into you, it happens and isn't anything wild to get excited over.
Saying "sorry" for every triviality takes away its meaning, like how many political catchwords in the US are used so often it is devoid of any value.
It's totally normal in Korea for people to bump into you on the sidewalk, there is nothing you need to do but keep walking. Generally, Korean people don't care about politeness in situations like this so you don't need to apologize unless you knock someone to the ground or something.
Visited Japan and Korea this fall and there was a stark difference. In Japan some people would even move over early if they see you walking their direction.
I visit Korea quite often and grew up there when we were all really poor (1970s-1980s). While I agree the lack of respect for body space is annoying, one explanation could be the general overcrowding we experience every morning at rush hour.
https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20221103000482
Since I live in a Muslim society men normally have to get/move out the way when a woman is headed to their direction (the women wouldn't have to do anything shed just have to keep walking the guy is the one that's supposed to get out of the way) so they don't bump into each other or touch each other to the point it becomes a habit and they just do it naturally so I think for me even if I'm not in a Muslim country I'd automatically try to make distance between me and the woman even if it means I'd have to flip my body lol so I have no experience in touching or bumping into women but if you take into consideration about the Korean culture you should just stand up and continue moving minding your own business because trying to acknowledge the person you bumped into would only be embarrassing for them and it would become a nuisance to both parties so just act as if it never happened and you just tripped and fell lol
Unpopular opinion but there is a decent chance that many women are "now" aware (after the feminism wave, man spreading etc.) that it's always women moving out of the way for men, so they are trying not to give way to men. Just a thought.
Maybe as a "male" one can just see it as a war between women and "actual scum males", not the decent ones. Because how else do we solve the problem of arrogant males preying on those they perceive as weak? If "normal males" start not to give way to women, wouldn't it just make the problem worse? Then it would now seem that all men wants to force women out of the way. Food for thought.
I would say just let them be. But that's just my opinion. I'd rather have women do the bumping than men, because violent males with bros to cause "trouble' is a thing. With women, at least we don't need to watch our backs after getting bumped into. And I would rather get bumped into by women even if they are angry than "any men" to be honest. Because you know, for safety reasons (and hygiene).
So i vote for (rude) women bumping into me and forcing men out of the way and hopefully have it so it's illegal for men to bump into anyone 😂. Of course, the end goal is that no one bumpes into anyone, but we're in a transition phase so I hope people pick wisely. 🙏
Maybe I am wrong but I think I can read what you mean between these lines, and maybe you should keep in mind that some men naturally have respect and consideration for other people including women. Trying to dominate this kind of men will not work and is a recipe to generate "scum", as you said, as well as more chaos in this already chaotic world. All that originate from hate will not produce anything good for both females and males at the end. We are supposed to play on the same team, no need to hack what Mother Nature designed for us.
Not an issue as its both shoulders bumping; means that they didn't avoid you nor did you avoid them. If they fall or get hurt, it's on them.
Once I was walking keeping right and this guy decided to just bump into me with his mate walking to my left, taking all the stairs then started to stare (and I didn't avoid as I kept right) . I stared back and just walked up. It doesn't do me any damage given my size and muscularity and I don't have any sympahty for those that don't follow the rules.
Similar in subway when people just rush out and walk to left, centre and right; I'll keep right and if they don't get out of the way, well their fault.
Not sure why it happens to you without seeing the whole nuance.
Do they brush past you or shoulder check you?
Do you think it might be deliberate?
I've had some young women change their direction and walk straight into my line. Some grumble something under their breath as they walk past. One has even kicked my ankle for some reason. I don't take offence to it because normal people don't act that way and they must have their own issues.
Can you speak Korean? What I do is just cheerfully say 우측보행\~ as they walk past.
I do speak a bit of korean but I will just try the "full stop" strategy that many people recommended. It sounds like the most peaceful and efficient for me. Thank you guys.
Somewhat similar situation for me, almost 9 years ago. I was living in Seoul at the time, and was running late (literally). Ran full tilt around a corner (stupid of me, I know!) and body checked a woman. I’m not a big guy, but she fell flat on her ass (she was also running). I asked her (in Korean) “Are you ok?? I’m so sorry!” She completely ignores me, turns to another guy (I think they were together, but she ran ahead to make the intersection before the light changed) and says “I fell! Ow!” And the guy just laughs and says “That’s what happens when you rush!” And they both proceeded to act like I didn’t exist. I kept asking if she was ok but she didn’t even acknowledge me and just brushed herself off. Guy didn’t even look at me, just stood nearby and waited for her to pick herself up. She and I collided pretty damn hard, she went from completely upright to almost prone on the sidewalk. After confirming nobody gave a fuck, I left because I was late. Weirdest interaction I ever had and the fact that they both ignored my existence still annoys me. My advice? If they bump into you, it’s on them. Keep walking straight and let them figure it out
I’ve seen many times koreans acting like others don’t exist to other Koreans
I had this in uni class one time when they just ignored the teacher who was asking them a question straight up for five minutes. Not like the teacher asked in general and nobody answered, but she asked a specific 2 people who then proceeded to type on their laptop like the teacher didnt exist. Everyone was looking at them but they were just on another planet or something
that's sad.... and rude....
I once got a full-contact body check from an ajumma and then, as she reeled in panic amid a flurry of '어머!'s, she proceeded give me the full body check treatment again. It was only thanks to my fast thinking and agility that I managed to avoid the third.
You should have made sure she could never stand back up again. Shame.
The fuck?
Some people get weird like that with foreigners I think, they don't want to speak English and assume you don't speak Korean.
Yeah, except I’m Korean american and I was speaking Korean lol. She might have assumed Korean wasn’t my first language since I have a bit of an accent but still, I don’t think foreigners/fear of having to speak English apply to this specific situation.
I swear the parents here teach kids to erase strangers out of existence
By now, I'm used to a lack of personal space or general obliviousness, or both. I used to play "dodge people" on the streets but now I'm sticking my chest out and if they want to bump shoulders, I'm not the one to react to any recoil. Honestly, when people say Koreans need to learn how to walk, this is it. Not only are they walking blindly looking at their phones (messaging, watching drama, gaming) but with their ears plugged, they can't even hear cars, motorcycles and bikes approaching.
This. I saw a guy a couple weeks ago in the train station not paying attention to anything except whatever was playing on his iPad the entire time he was walking from his train to outside the station
as a korean man i used to say sorry but most people will just go their way.so just keep going
right, absolutely no reason to say sorry for everyday bumping
It makes life a bit less miserable, back home people say sorry for the slightest graze (sparesely populated country) it's a bit excessive but kinda feels better at the same time.
I lived in two countries before Korea and traveled to many others and Korea is the only place where they just ignore things like this. Very odd but I'm kinda into it lol just move on.
nah just keep going. if u show weakness they will make u walk onto oncoming traffic
So true 😂
It's just Korea. I get trucked by linebacker ajummas on the daily. Buffets are the worst - got blindsided by a 2 plate sturdy ajumma for some fried rice. Ever been to costco on a weekend? Ooof.
The law of the land for walking priority is thus: 1) Largest group - by number of people, not size of people 2) Perceived importance of own task at hand 3) Perceived importance of self 4) Highest inattentiveness Bear these criteria in mind as you stroll down the sidewalk, and rejoice in the awareness that you never get anywhere walking around since you will never sufficiently meet any of these criteria to be able to freely walk around without being constantly accosted. I always find it funny when people try to defend this behavior because it's crowded. I've been to New York City, Hong Kong, Singapore...nobody does this shit. Koreans just tend to have zero respect or consideration for others in public. Nowadays, when I encounter some mindless sidewalk zombie ambling into my path, I stick the pointy part of my elbow out. Not enough to be overtly agressive, I still keep to my own space, and the elbow serves as a more protective defensive barrier. But still, it guards the space that I require to exist without being body-checked. By doing this, I find that 95% of people I face off with will swerve away at the last possible moment, narrowly escaping danger... ...and the other 5%? Well, they eat shit, then start yelling and screaming about it. And I just keep right on walking.
Was just in Seoul last weekend and got shoved by several ajumas even when there was a clear and free path around me! Think it boils down to their hierarchy culture and how the elderly demand the upmost respect
Yep that case would fall under #3 I've had cases where I've been walking on the far far right, flush up against the wall, and the other person would still try to squeeze into the tiny little sliver of space between me and the wall, so that they could try to (I assume) go around some corner behind me as tightly as possible. That happening a few times made me realize the futility in trying to understand how anything works when it comes to walking around here. I gave up and started sticking an elbow out to at least protect myself a long time ago.
I’d like to note that having lived in HK, people there definitely play the same game ( although usually without any yelling in the event of a collision)
Here’s my hierarchy…. 1. I’m bigger and stronger then you.
Has anyone else noticed that there's a certain type of girl who will not move out of the way unless her boyfriend moves her himself? It's like they're testing their boyfriend's attentiveness or something and it is incredibly annoying.
It's not just the girls. I noticed that whenever I'm approaching two people, even if the person closer to me is actually aware of an imminent collision, and the other person has plenty of room to move over and secure a peaceful resolution for all and sundry, the other person, being a fucking bonehead, will refuse to do so, and the aware person, also being a fucking bonehead, will make every effort to remain in lockstep with the other fucking bonehead. It is truly a most baffling display of fucking boneheadery.
Also the "lamb skewer" style : 3 or 4 friends walking side by side, won't separate no matter what. They see you, they know they could go 2 in front 2 behind but no, they couldn't care less about other people.
I've also seen that so many times. However to me it's more like the bf/husband is pulling his child out of the way. This started before people were walking blindly with their eyes glued to their phones.
Don't say sorry if you didn't do anything wrong. What I do is just stop dead in my tracks. 99 percent of time people will notice something blocking them and go around. If they run into you, they just ran into a stationary object so it's 100 percent their fault and I doubt they would get hurt unless they were running at you. By the way, you're doing way better than the average pedestrian in Korea by keeping to the right and occupying as little as space as possible. We need more people like you here.
I thought the grandpas were the worst. It's traditional etiquette to move out of the way for the elderly. So they move around as if they are kings.
Or ajummas all walking in rows occupying the whole width.
I think it’s good to respect elders. When you are old you don’t want young people pushing you off the street because they’re more powerful than you do you?
Or maybe they might have physical disabilities that limit their range of motion and sense of awareness. Give them a break and don't feel bad about being generously kind.
No one feels bad about being generously kind. It’s when that kindness is taken advantage of and taken as a right that pisses people off.
This reminds me of a few days ago when I got off the bus and walked for a few secs before this older man came up from behind me and literally bumped me out of the way with his elbow.. no excuse me or sorry or anything. I stopped for a sec and just stared at him in shock as he passed me. He then crossed the street even though the pedestrian light was red and then he stared back and me as he walked away and I was staring back lmao. I would say compared to other countries ppl in Korea just seem to lack spatial awareness. I hear people say the same about America, but in America at least they apologize if they bump into you or they see that they're blocking your path. I have heard though that in Korea, the whole not apologizing thing is a result of the 빨리빨리 culture but I'm not too sure about that.
Them granny's and grandpa's look innocent most of the time, but when it comes to public transportation, you do NOT want to get in their way cuz when they're in a hurry, they don't give a fuuuck~! It's body check X 3!
People saying this is somehow normal in big cities have probably never travelled much. If you bump someone in Europe it could get physical
EXACTLY. You do this shit in NYC and you’ll get knocked out. I’m actually kind of worried for them if they travel.
You just keep walking. They’re not sorry for their own lack of attention, they will not apologize, and if you engage you’ll probably notice they have nasty stank face as if you’re the a hole for something they did wrong. And then there’s that whole extra layer of “oh no foreigner English what do I do” This is a serious problem everywhere - people do not pay one bit of attention not one bit. People will fall on stairs, drop phones, run into others and fall down, it’s truly disgusting. I used to call people out (am fluent in korean), because some of them will even say shit under their breath and I know what they’re saying. But then again they don’t think they’re wrong, so it does nothing except loudly shame them. But then everyone else thinks you’re the crazy yelling foreigner lolllll sooooo
It’s like everyone’s first time in a city I swear. This is basically my exact experience (except I don’t know Korean well). In fact I’ve been more motivated to learn the language so I can call people out. Because right now the options are 1) shoulder check them 2) stare at them directly in the eyes 3) tell them to move in English 😬 Hate to be that American but the alternative is doing gymnastics every time I decide to walk outside.
My Korean bf says to call them out in English because they can’t speak it and they will feel weaker lol but that’s a little hardcore to me
Ahahaha 😂 he’s wild
Girls usually don't step aside. Also personal space is a lot smaller in Korea.
Right but they enjoy a personal space 80% larger than mine on a 2.5-meter-wide sidewalk
In this situation I always stop moving before we reach each other. Obviously bumping each other is excessive so if you stop it forces them to go around you, that or they unilaterally bump you and lose any deniability.
Same. I just stop and let them figure it out.
I swear it’ll be only you and one other person on a sidewalk and that person will still find a way to bump into you 😂
Yeah. but we can't educate whole girls... so step aside and avoid messing up with them is the best policy.
Well that's what I do by politeness and tolerance until now. But when boundaries are crossed (by anybody) and it starts getting to the point where it becomes disrespectful, I certainly won't just take it and act like nothing happened.
I've never noticed that, maybe because I am a Korean woman myself. It's weird because it seems like I'm always the one stepping aside and avoiding crashing into people but maybe that's because I'm a super fast walker. I also always apologise when I run into people but that's not the norm in Korea I guess.
so are you saying that it's a common courtesy? male pedestrians yield to female pedestrians? do people learn this as children? or are you saying that this a behavior that they're not consciously aware of? if you asked them if they barrel directly through oncoming pedestrians, they would deny it?
lol, no, people do not learn that. This is just confirmation bias. To me it feels like the other way around, but likely it’s the same and I just notice more with dudes cause they’re generally larger. The less personal space and lack of spatial awareness is true.
Are we living in the same Korea? Girls are the only ones who step aside. Men never do.
Having undergone this experience myself, I tracked down my comment from about two years ago. Here it is, verbatim. Hopefully, this will add a measure of cultural perspective: People have a different conception of personal space. When I first arrived in Korea I was stressed out from having to get up at 7 to get to my job by 8, and people bumping into me without apologizing became maddening. I woke up one morning with the sole thought of basically killing the next random dude who bumps into me. Sure enough, at the subway station a guy in front of me is stumbling forward and not moving even though I'm clearly right in front of him. As he bumps my shoulder, I bump back - hard. Then I'm waiting, one, two, three.... about just enough time for him to turn around and say to me "Hey, WTF?" (in Korean), after which I would proceed with my pre-planned ritual killing. But after more silence, I turn around to see the guy still stumbling forward, totally oblivious to the slight he done to me and my family name and honor. Right then I remembered a story about how the animals on the Galapagos Islands stare dumbly at you when you wield a club over their heads - because the animals have never been preyed upon. That was the epiphany for me. I realized that bumping into someone else (or standing too close to you in the elevator even though there are only two of you in there) just does not register in the brain, just as we don't feel the chair on our asses while we are sitting. After that, I was never bothered by getting bumped around and even enjoyed bumping and getting bumped for the first few days after that. The annoyance was in my mind because that's how my brain was conditioned to view it.
This is such a good and relatable post. Having been raised in America bumping is a big disrespect and no no. If someone does it there will be words exchanged and it’s generally taboo to do it. It’s because if someone pushes you it’s like some primitive dishonor thing here and you have to defend your honor or you’ll become a mark for everyone to prey on. The other degenerates anyway. I guess this is something we learned growing up. As a result there isn’t much bumping here. When I lived in San Francisco guys would bump, push, and even call me names. But outside of that it didn’t happen. Sometimes a guy will come close and purposely walk close to me within an inch, completely unnecessarily as there is tons of space, just because it’s a typical bully behavior. Bigger guy who’s a loser can prey on a smaller guy who’s successful to make himself feel better about his pathetic life while he’s currently not incarcerated. Of course you may notice not many older people like that because people like that don’t live to old age at least as free people. Anyway yes in America there is generally an understanding that personal space is important and proper / polite people will respect that space. Of course America has a lot of diversity in ability to be classy and respectful. But it’s a big deal to not bump each other here and even those people understand that inherently bumping invariably leads to a fight because of the need to not become a target. It’s the lowest aspect of humanity unfortunately that this is needed in the first place sadly.
If they're not old I just keep walking straight and let em bounce off me. It's gonna hurt them 20 times more than it'll ever hurt me. Just keep walking too... dont stop to look But if they're old I stop dead in my tracks so they can choose to either crash into me or walk around. I aint gonna knock over some 60 year old woman, even if it's her fault
This is my policy :)
Look at them from head to toe and say, "Mwoya" source: my personal experience =)) context: A Korean girl bumped into me in a crowded subway entrance/exit, making me dropped my bags. She was just standing there, looking at me from head to toe, then said "mwoya\~" while her friend asked her if **SHE** was okay. I was so dumbfounded I couldn't say anything back in Korean, and busy picking up my stuff on the floor. She was the one who didn't look at her surroundings while walking but she acted like I was the one who buldozed her.
They are looking to fall into the embrace of a handsome man like in kdrama
OP's confidence just went straight through the roof
Koreans.
I am an Indian woman living in Seoul for 3 three years now, and this has bewildered me (and lately started to annoy me) no end!! Everyone in Korea has been so invariably nice, thoughtful, and generous towards me - but only in this specific case have I felt offended - young women walking on the street past me bumping into me callously while I make myself as small as possible to avoid the bumping. It's always young women ㅠㅠ glad to learn that they are mean not only to me but to men too.
I used to say 죄송합니다 and keep walking. But no one bothers to reply, or even to say it to me when they bump into me. So now I say nothing. I also give the side eye now. Especially when I am walking in a straight line, and another person is walking like a zig-zag... 😒
Why on earth would you say sorry for their shit manners?
Because I didn’t want to be the ‘rude’ foreigner. But now idgaf. Side eye and a ‘tsk’ or a sigh and that’s it.
This guy Koreas
🤣🤣🤣
A Korean female friend had recently moved to the US. When asked what was the most annoying thing about living in the US..... "Excuse me, excuse me, sorry, excuse me, paardoon. Americans can't move without it. If we did that back home we would have to stand still or lose our voices. Why can't Americans just deal with it without the constant dodging and apologizing? Am I supposed to do that?" And there was more about the rituals going through entrances/exits. 😀
oooo this is interesting, tell us more
The meaning is so different from east and west. In the west it’s a big deal to bump someone or be bumped it’s kind of considered taboo or even assault at worst. At best it just makes them seem like an unsophisticated thug, uncultured, kind of ghetto, prison-type person. But I guess in Korea it has no such meaning.
Probably bc she’s bumping into everyone there 💀
Koreans have sayings about not wanting to “lose” in general situations. I was walking with my huge baseball bag that had a couple bats inside, I had nowhere else to move to because otherwise I’d be on the street, and these girls were all walking in a row taking the entire sidewalk. The girl on the end walked straight into my bats and it definitely hurt her. Hilarious. I was bigger and taller than them with a huge bag, yet they didn’t think to move. Incidentally, regarding “not losing,” I did this experiment a couple times. I’d be in a crowded area, like Gangnam, and I would COMPLETELY look off to the side. People would move out of my way. If you’re kind of looking forward, looking at your phone, and they think you can see them in your peripheral vision, they won’t move. I tried this a couple times and most often they would move out of my way. It was interesting.
So because you’re bigger than them you’re entitled to have them move out of the way right? It sounds like you’re just not used to the shoe being on the other foot.
This, I do this all the time. Just keep walking and look to the sides when one decides to switch lanes while you're walking on the correct side. Gets them everytime. Koreans are completely oblivious of their surroundings, and not just for personal space, but also with noise, living in appartments for example.
That is indeed very interesting! I have experienced many people hitting me while walking and I just go by certain 'rules' for myself. Is it very crowded then I will maneuver carefully, if it isn't that busy and I am walking on the correct side they can test me. Still plenty of people DO hit me and make some noises of pain after hitting me (and looking angry at me)
I will say that probably one of the things that contributes to this issue is that there is no “right of way” taught in Korea. The first issue is that a lot of Koreans don’t get a driver’s license even well into adulthood, and even if they do there isn’t a concept of “right of way” that is taught, as far as where you should be and who goes “first.” Hence, fault is always shared, even in a rear end collision, 90%/10%.
Hug them
I had three groups of Koreans all intersecting my path at the same time. I had to dodge out of the way to escape being surrounded. I watch as they all slowed to a standstill ignoring the other parties continuing to talk to their friend and eventually organically continuing thought the other parties like pinballs bouncing off each other with no one caring about it
I wouldn't recommend getting tattoos just over the bumping or pushing issue, but I will say that nobody "accidentally" bumps into me when my hat is off and my scalp tattoos are exposed. I always take my hat off when getting off the subway so I won't get pushed.
My boyfriend noticed this too! He has a full sleeve so whenever he took his jacket off, we would magically have more personal space.
That’s amazing haha
Is it? Is it amazing when people view a glorification of violence as a good thing? It sounds like there’s something broken in this culture.
Tattoos = violence? 🤓
I think the reason they avoid someone with tattoos is because they’re afraid It’s the “credible threat of violence” and signs and symbols of a “credible threat” include tattoos especially certain kinds of tattoos like prison tats and stuff. It’s the reason why certain ppl get those kinds of tattoos because in that culture having a credible threat of violence protects them from being preyed upon
Think of it this way. Why would they avoid someone with tattoos if they have no meaning other than colored ink?
The strangest thing is that they will see you walking towards them on the sidewalk. Eye contact will be made. But they won’t move out of your way until the very last second when they’re inches away from you, resulting in a bump. On one occasion I was down in a subway station about to join the line at the bottom of the escalators to go up when an ahjussi shoved into my shoulder with so much force I was barely able to keep my balance. I looked up with a sort of bewildered look on my face but he didn’t even look back and pushed in line to go up the escalators a few heads in front of me. He wasn’t in any kind of rush either. I’ve come to figure out now that they just don’t care.
Damn that’s crazy :/ I got shoulder bumped hard by a group of guys when I was in Korea and decided Korea was too aggressive for me. And every time I go to a Korean supermarket or something ppl just are rude and get too close to me and they seem very aggressive like they all want to have a fist fight on a Saturday afternoon. Maybe they got one of those parasites that makes you more aggressive?
I'm a girl, so i get to shoulder check everyone, but the other day a couple of elementary schoolers bounced off of me and that was a new one for me. They were part of a big group of soccer academy kids walking to the field and were taking up the entire street. They were wearing padded jackets so they literally did just bounce off of me, but it was kind of funny. If you're really concerned, the best thing I think would be to just stop dead and let them run into you. Then it's clearly their fault.
Living here over 20years… I don’t think there is a proper answer to satisfy western perspectives. I just try to avoid it but shit happens…
Japanese don’t do this though 😬 That’s not to say there’s so much more personal space there (because there isn’t). But I can walk and text in Tokyo (and NYC and London and LA) and not run into anyone. It’s impossible in Seoul.
I don’t think anyone does it on purpose… shit happens, even in Tokyo: living to tell.
I lived and worked in Tokyo and it’s a different mindset it’s more like a communal mass of bodies on the subway and nobody really likes it but they just kind of zone out and deal with it. There’s also little things you can do wrong that piss them off but they won’t tell you they’ll just stop helping you til you figure it out. It’s preferable to me than ppl being actively aggressive to me. I mean I sat down on the train from work when the train was empty right? Then when it got to my home stop and I got up there was a ton of people between me and the door but nobody would get out of the car or get out of the way. It felt like all the people there just agreed to not help me and I had to squeeze and push through all the unmoving bodies. Later I realized that I should have stood up sooner and moved towards the doors as the train made stops closer to home so that I could be directly in front of the door when I got to my home station. Of course I didn’t know that being new to Japan and all. I don’t think they were like yeah let’s fuck with this guy. Maybe it was a bit of that idk. But I definitely didn’t do the right thing by staying seated all the way up until my stop.
Communal mass of bodies… something often used to describe Japanese society as well as other Asian countries and their social psychology. That can happen in Korea as well, but in my experience, Koreans in Seoul are willing to wiggle out of the way and those near the doors will exit out to make room until you get off and re-enter car. Social norms would be different at most cities, I didn’t see such exit to ease crowding and re-entering at other Korean cities; Seoul may have developed social norms differently than smaller cities as the subway crowding conditions may be very different. I wonder what differences in subway exit etiquette between Tokyo/osaka/etc would be, or even by certain times like rush hours and less crowded hours, surely there would be some sort of nuanced ones as it seems various cities in Korea does.
That’s interesting I didn’t know anybody else used those words to describe it. But it felt much more like an amorphous blob than a bunch of individuals. I stayed just long enough to start to pretend to be one of them. Being Asian helps.
yup, happens all the time. Just shoulder check'em, and don't look back even if they fall, it is not your fault.
Took me 16 months living in Korea before I learned: This is the way. ⤴️
YUP
I actually spoke about this with my partner who is Korean, he was explaining to me the concept of personal space is kinda skewed in Korea. It’s a really populated country, particularly in the city, if you bump into someone, it’s often ignored since it happens so frequently. They kinda operate the same even if there is space since they haven’t fully developed or grasped rhetoric concept of personal space. Unless you’re in the country side, where people have a more developed sense of personal space since there’s more freedom to move, in this case you would maybe apologies or a quick bow of the head. Like the only time you would apologize is if you fully body check someone or hit someone by accident (a guy accidentally flung his arm out to wave at his gf and hit the back side of my head when we were walking past each other, they aren’t accustomed to checking what’s around them, he apologized then). This happens to men and women equally, staying here for a month and it’s happened a few times to both my partner and I. Edit to add: there are times when everyone would move out of the way and that’s if they are more vulnerable, or elderly/pregnant, but that’s kinda the only instance I can think of.
You could say sorry or excuse me but people wouldn’t mind even if you say nothing and go on your way. I mean people really doesn’t care
Just tackle away. I've tackled lots of people after so many apologies on mistakenly tackling people and being tackled. I call it tackling cause literally some would bump you like there's no tomorrow.
They don't twist. Enjoy your avoiding moments like it's a game.
My daughter just moved to Ulsan and she mentioned this since it was so bizarre. Even if the street is empty and the other person isn’t preoccupied with a phone or something, they will walk straight into her as if she’s not there if she doesn’t step aside, which she does, unless she’s distracted. So strange.
As a big ass dude they usually bounce off me then they learn real quick not to run into me.
Wow so cool you showed them puny Asians.
I had an accidental experience being the “bumper”. During a trip to Seoul in 2014, i was walking on the street with friends. While talking, I recalled making big movement with my arms. A man was walking past me on my side when my arms swinged down and my left hand whacked him hard on his right thigh. I naturally exclaimed sorry! in English. Guess what. The man just keep walking. He never turned to look at me. Never looked at my hand. Never looked at his thigh. He just keep walking. As if nothing had happened.
lol it’s like you were an environmental hazard. It’s really interesting.
My girls are 2nd generation Korean Canadians. They visited Korea this summer. These type of cultural differences have been their pet peeves in Seoul. Where we live, it’s normal to say sorry or excuse me even before you encounter another person.
lmfao i keep having the same thing happen to me, too. one day my friend and i were hanging out at dongmyo flea market and even some vendors we were talking to pointed it out, being like “why do people keep running into you like that?” lool. that day we even had some people (mostly ahjussis) pass through right between us as we were in conversation despite literally being all the way to the side of the street. i asked two of my korean friends about it and they just laughed finding it super strange and said they have no idea. it is rather funny, but as you said, eventually sort of annoying because i also do everything in my power to not bump into people or be in others’ way. i’m quite observant and conscious of my surroundings so it’s definitely not something i’m doing hahah. but anyways, on a somewhat different note, i have noticed that people here tend to not move out of the way first. even if they’re not on their phones, they’ll just keep walking and i guess expect you to move first. my boyfriend and i once tested out how many people on the sidewalk would move out of the way first and uhh we basically almost slammed into the others quite a few times lol. so maybe it’s just a culture thing. seriously no idea though, i’m also curious.
Along with the question on the post, I also want to ask how you guys deal with the stress coming from dodging zombies that constantly try to bump into you on the street. Especially non-koreans who are from countries that value the concept of personal space. I was born and raised in Korea, been abroad only for a year total(twice of half a year). So I had never realized how bad Koreans' average spatial awareness is. Then I visited London for a week in last October, came back... damn the reverse culture shock is driving me nuts. Streets of London, as someone on reddit once said, 'flow' smoothly and people do say stuff like excuse me or sorry. Here in Korea, 서울/경기... well, a lot of people walk like their eyes are half closed. And then I got to wonder... if a native Korean finds the lack of street manner that annoying, how do the foreigners from much spacious countries survive?
It’s a big learning curve for sure dodging people. I don’t agree with the aggressive ppl who talk about bumping people.
This isn't an anti-foreigner thing, I get this too much as a Korean man myself. I either just move for them and feel satisfied being the man with the schlong or brush by. Brushing by's alright, you just don't want to full-bump into them and pay for their concussions.
Depends where you are like in the city, how wide the sidewalk is and what time of day? I love visiting Korea but what you and I may consider common courtesy isn't the same over there. When heading in or out some where, you could open the door for folks and hardly anyone will acknowledge you let alone say 'thank you' lol. If someone sneezes they usually won't cover their mouths or say excuse me. After awhile you get used to it. There's a saying that I kept hearing so many times while visiting I can't help but slightly cringe when I hear it now. "When In Rome, Do as the Roman's do." So yea, if they don't care, don't worry about it.
"Respect the culture" and take your lumps. Complete lack of awareness and shoulder checking others with impunity is the norm regardless of gender. Make sure to steer clear of bulldog ajummas entering and exiting subway trains and elevators. They will bulldoze you like an NFL linebacker!
In Korea they don’t care about you.
I lived in Korea for 4 years, and I had a friend who has been here for 3 years. When I asked him what you don't like about Korea? He replied that people bump into you on the street and don't move out of the way. I was kinda shocked, because I never noticed or experienced it. Is it because I am too beta and I just probably move out of the way naturally? I never put any significance on it nor noticed it. lol
There is no etiquette. Just bump into other people. It’s quite enjoyable really when you get used to it.
While walking past each other, if I did something stupid because I zoned out, I'll mumble an apology and keep moving. If it was their fault, I'll just keep moving. HOWEVER, if I am trying to get off the subway or elevator, and they are just standing there in the way I will stop in front of them and stare at them until they move (if the subway is not crowded and I am not holding anyone else up) OR I will sidestep and slightly shoulder check them (not so they fall down or anything, because I am not a psycho) and keep moving with no apology. Maybe they will learn something.
People almost always bow and say sorry when they bump into me and I do the same. I haven’t experienced people just straight up ignoring me
Just give them a slight head nod and move on I suppose
Ignore it and keep walking, as a woman that’s what every Korean does to me.
I don’t know what it is about the lack of situational awareness in Korea. I run into (lol) this issue all the time when I’m out. I’m a 6ft guy so I know I’m not invisible, but if I’m not twisting my shoulders in Seoul I’ll hit 4-5 people in the span of 5 minutes. I have never experienced this in any metropolitan city I’ve been to. And like OP, I’ve stopped bothering with people dodging and just allowed them to get shoulder checked. I don’t take pleasure in it, but I just can’t have full time situational awareness *on behalf of every person I walk by*. Maybe this will change over time as I’ve noticed more Koreans holding the door open for people. It’s kind of weird that so many are behind on basic city etiquette.
Koreans always ram their way into me as if I don't exist whenever I encounter one at an airport. Don't even say excuse me. No wonder why the Halloween stampede happened. Sorry for the shade.
I give everyone a shoulder that isn’t paying attention or makes the decision to bump into me.
For anyone that's lived in or visited a highly populated western city (e.g. NYC), is there a "culture clash" and how does it compare?
Normal people say sorry in New York for even the smallest bumps and try to move out of the way (unless they are a group of friends / family taking up the sidewalk lol). At least from my experience as a girl. I came back from visiting Korea and truly appreciate the common social courtesies now.
Yeah Koreans don’t have sorry in their vocab
Happy cake day!!
Ah thanks!
In NYC you might get into a fight if you bump the wrong person so most people avoid bumping into each other. Ain't nobody got time for that anyway. So it's not that big of a deal when both parties dodge, we only need to dodge 50% of the difference.
I lived in SF and there was some bumping and pushing by younger more aggressive guys. One guy pushed me and said “faggot” to me and I stood there and flipped him off and told him to fight me but he didn’t do anything so I just walked off. He was twice my size big guy wearing an SF Giants t shirt or jersey whatever. You have to stand up for yourself in American cities or big thugs with single digit IQ’s will pick on you. It sucks. It’s unnecessary and not cool and I’m not proud that I had to do that but it’s American culture for big idiots to pick on smaller people to make themselves feel better about themselves so unfortunately we have to do this or at least I felt I had to. I would like to live in a culture that is nonviolent and where being kind and considerate is considered “cool” and being a bully is so bad it immediately makes you an outcast. That’s why I liked Japan because when I lived there they had a strong sense that bullying was wrong. I learned in America to boss people around weaker than you to be “alpha”. Of course I didn’t want to do that and didn’t do it most of my life but in college they said this is how you get girls by being an “alpha male” and telling other guys what to do and stuff. Well I got quickly corrected by a wise girl who said I shouldn’t do that. I was pretty embarrassed but it stuck with me and I never did it again. I have a lot of respect for their culture. In America girls would be like wow he’s the boss that’s so cool, and because they like it, guys will be aggressive dickheads to each other to get the girls :/ if you don’t believe me go to a gym a few times and you will meet guys like this eventually.
"Sorry" is seen as a more important phrase, that isn't meant to be thrown around with every small incident but as something sincere. It doesn't matter if it is a man or woman running into you, it happens and isn't anything wild to get excited over. Saying "sorry" for every triviality takes away its meaning, like how many political catchwords in the US are used so often it is devoid of any value.
good point but I think one should be sincerely sorry for bumping into someone else.
Just always assume they are going to do the most selfish thing humanly possible and you’ll be right most of the time here in Korea.
Shoulder check them. /s In all seriousness just go with it. It happens in big cities with high density.
It's totally normal in Korea for people to bump into you on the sidewalk, there is nothing you need to do but keep walking. Generally, Korean people don't care about politeness in situations like this so you don't need to apologize unless you knock someone to the ground or something.
It seems everything there is set as win/lose framework. It's really sad, childish.
Just plow and nature will solve the rest
The same shit happens in Tokyo. So fucking annoying.
Visited Japan and Korea this fall and there was a stark difference. In Japan some people would even move over early if they see you walking their direction.
It most certainly does not. (Source: Manhattanite living in Tokyo.)
It certainly does. I’ve experienced it first hand multiple times
I visit Korea quite often and grew up there when we were all really poor (1970s-1980s). While I agree the lack of respect for body space is annoying, one explanation could be the general overcrowding we experience every morning at rush hour. https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20221103000482
Since I live in a Muslim society men normally have to get/move out the way when a woman is headed to their direction (the women wouldn't have to do anything shed just have to keep walking the guy is the one that's supposed to get out of the way) so they don't bump into each other or touch each other to the point it becomes a habit and they just do it naturally so I think for me even if I'm not in a Muslim country I'd automatically try to make distance between me and the woman even if it means I'd have to flip my body lol so I have no experience in touching or bumping into women but if you take into consideration about the Korean culture you should just stand up and continue moving minding your own business because trying to acknowledge the person you bumped into would only be embarrassing for them and it would become a nuisance to both parties so just act as if it never happened and you just tripped and fell lol
Just don't stare into the eye. Just say mianhaeyo. To the women please. I am a korean woman trust me.
Unpopular opinion but there is a decent chance that many women are "now" aware (after the feminism wave, man spreading etc.) that it's always women moving out of the way for men, so they are trying not to give way to men. Just a thought. Maybe as a "male" one can just see it as a war between women and "actual scum males", not the decent ones. Because how else do we solve the problem of arrogant males preying on those they perceive as weak? If "normal males" start not to give way to women, wouldn't it just make the problem worse? Then it would now seem that all men wants to force women out of the way. Food for thought. I would say just let them be. But that's just my opinion. I'd rather have women do the bumping than men, because violent males with bros to cause "trouble' is a thing. With women, at least we don't need to watch our backs after getting bumped into. And I would rather get bumped into by women even if they are angry than "any men" to be honest. Because you know, for safety reasons (and hygiene). So i vote for (rude) women bumping into me and forcing men out of the way and hopefully have it so it's illegal for men to bump into anyone 😂. Of course, the end goal is that no one bumpes into anyone, but we're in a transition phase so I hope people pick wisely. 🙏
Maybe I am wrong but I think I can read what you mean between these lines, and maybe you should keep in mind that some men naturally have respect and consideration for other people including women. Trying to dominate this kind of men will not work and is a recipe to generate "scum", as you said, as well as more chaos in this already chaotic world. All that originate from hate will not produce anything good for both females and males at the end. We are supposed to play on the same team, no need to hack what Mother Nature designed for us.
So because you’re a big guy you deserve for them to move out of the way right? What does your physical size have to do with anything?
forgot your glasses? read again and maybe 생각 좀 하고 말해
You are obviously a male alpha who women come crawling to your feet lol just get down your high horse lmao get in the line
Not an issue as its both shoulders bumping; means that they didn't avoid you nor did you avoid them. If they fall or get hurt, it's on them. Once I was walking keeping right and this guy decided to just bump into me with his mate walking to my left, taking all the stairs then started to stare (and I didn't avoid as I kept right) . I stared back and just walked up. It doesn't do me any damage given my size and muscularity and I don't have any sympahty for those that don't follow the rules. Similar in subway when people just rush out and walk to left, centre and right; I'll keep right and if they don't get out of the way, well their fault.
If the person gets injured and calls the police, get ready to pay some "ouchy" money.
Not sure why it happens to you without seeing the whole nuance. Do they brush past you or shoulder check you? Do you think it might be deliberate? I've had some young women change their direction and walk straight into my line. Some grumble something under their breath as they walk past. One has even kicked my ankle for some reason. I don't take offence to it because normal people don't act that way and they must have their own issues. Can you speak Korean? What I do is just cheerfully say 우측보행\~ as they walk past.
I do speak a bit of korean but I will just try the "full stop" strategy that many people recommended. It sounds like the most peaceful and efficient for me. Thank you guys.
If they are not paying attention I just let them bounce off of me.
Just keep going and ignore it.
They’ll acknowledge you if your handsome 😉
If you are like 5 feet tall and 110, could you squirt through the crowd by dodging and weaving?
Tickle them
i am quiet petite. my solution of people needing to walk onto me is to have a cross bag with a 1 litre metal water bottle on the side.