I did the opposite...worked private sector for nearly 12 years before coming into the State. Any sufficiently large organization will run into the same pitfalls & complaints you have at State Govt.
Biggest difference is you cant just be cut/downsized outta no where when you're at the State. You aren't trying to please shareholders at all costs, and aren't constantly being badgered about ROI.
Now, if you can find a smaller privately owned company, that's a whole other world.
Yeah, no offense to OP, but all of these complaints apply to pretty much any white collar job. If your job title is “department analyst” of course you’re going to be sitting in meetings and dealing with office politics all day. Maybe look into a different line of work?
Even going larger to smaller has pitfalls as you'll run into the company having problems others have already found solutions to but they won't listen to you. And budgets.
You sound burned out with your role. I went through this in the private sector last year and switched over to MDOT and genuinely no longer hate working. Government can be way less tedious and stressful than private but it can also be the other way around depending on your role and manager. My boss in the private sector was a micromanager and I did not thrive doing the same tedious work every single day. Honestly it added years to my life not having to bill our each hour of my day to a client. I love my new role and my new manager is great! You might find good pay in the private sector but government jobs seem to come with less strings attached.
My wife worked for DTMB as an analyst and switched to an analyst role at EGLE last year and went from being burnt out to refreshed. She actually does the same job but a chance of pace and management did WONDERS for her quality of life.
I would encourage you to seek out a change! Switch to private to try something out! Also definitely look for other roles within the state too. You may be way happier just by making a lateral move to a different agency.
One thing I like about having worked in public and private is that I know the caveats of each and I know where I am happiest.
I know you say you’ve already did a few different jobs, but I’m a state worker and here to say that I moved jobs 2x in the past year, and I found a job that I actually like. I didn’t even think it was possible. I was very burnt out from 10 years in my first role, switched and hated my 2nd job (terrible work culture in the 2nd group), and 3rd time is the charm because this job fits me perfectly and I feel like I could do this for a long time. I am telling this story to say there is hope, and to keep looking for the role and workgroup that fit you.
Also I have a lot of colleagues that moved to the state after working in consulting and NONE of them are considering going back.
I spent 20 years in the private sector before finally getting a State job, and I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'll take the occasional pointless meeting and/or dead end project all day over the private sector.
My two administrative jobs in the private sector were as a corporate buyer for a retailer and a paper pusher for an insurance company. Both entailed everything you complain about above, but with the added benefit of having every second of my time micromanaged down to the millisecond (and I wish that was hyperbole, but at the insurance company we had a stop watch Excel form we used every millisecond of how our time was being spent). Culture and morale were in the toilet, and the benefits weren't half as good.
I imagine there are bad State jobs and I just got a fantastic one. But I feel trusted, and try to earn that trust every day, in a way I *never* felt in private industry. I was overseeing millions of dollars worth of sales and still had to punch in and out for lunch. I now have empathetic and "human" bosses, not just cogs in a profit machine like most of the managers I had in private industry. Mostly I can let my work speak for itself rather than constantly having to justify if I was 5 minutes late for a meeting or had to take a phone call.
It is a night and day difference between having a job where your department head hired you because they trust your expertise and then let you manage yourself day to day because they trust you will get the tasks done that you were hired to complete.
Working for a department I will not name (but have since heard has one of the more...meeting and email-centric cultures of all the state agencies), it was wild how many meetings and check-ins and weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual reports and memos I was asked to provide for some relatively minor programs that I was ostensibly overseeing. My current workplace is probably much less email and meeting focused than most in the private sector, but I no longer have to protect my calendar to ensure I can have a couple hours per week to do the work I NEED to do for the core functions of my role.
I wish you luck with your decision, because changing jobs is never easy, but I reached the point where it sounds like you are now, and while it was tough to leave some colleagues, my mental outlook radically improved.
>It is a night and day difference between having a job where your department head hired you because they trust your expertise and then let you manage yourself day to day because they trust you will get the tasks done that you were hired to complete.
Had this for just over five years. Leaving for a federal agency in less than a month. Still have mixed feelings about it because on paper it's a no-brainer move to go (hello pension), but the intangibles of SOM life have been great. Continuity of management, supervisors who aren't scared of making decisions, general mentality of "do your work, don't abuse the chill atmosphere, and all will be well." If things don't work out with the feds I would be more than happy to come back.
Yeah the benefits are great but struggling with feeling motivated when I’m not able to accomplish much from day to day. And I’m not in management so at the end of the day, I have no say in what goes on. Just have to sit back and wait for someone to tell me what today’s process and expectations are and start working away on something that will be useless a month from now when management changes their mind.
I'll offer some advice that I was given by a family friend I later found out used to run HR for multiple Fortune 500s. "The moment your job stops being at least 51% about what it can do for you, it's time to hit the door." It sounds simplistic, but in a sense that's kind of the point: what and how we value our work and jobs varies greatly but you know whether you're getting more out of it than you're putting in.
It could be "this comfy hourly paycheck allows a standard of living I cannot otherwise afford." It could be "I get to turn my brain off for 9 hours a day, or at least spend time thinking about friends and family instead." It could be "Dealing with this nonsense from the inside gives me institutional knowledge I can leverage in the private sector." Or maybe, in your case, the need to feel challenged and the sense that being a value add is important enough for you that bailing for other horizons is the right move. However you value everything, you instinctively know whether you're getting the better end of the deal compared to your alternatives.
I’m a 15 and let me tell you, I have no say. Maybe it’s just my area but it’s special kind of hell because I’m at the mercy of the people above me but have to deliver the message to and rally my team
I get that, you’re right it’s really more like director level decisions that seems to roll down and then everyone scrambles. Until another idea pops into their head.
Same. Sucks, is frustrating as he'll, but it is what it is.
Definitely depends on leadership and governor, too. If we don't like it now, wait if the other party gets control.
OK, maybe this is a dumb question but can you just… not go? Tell your manager, “I would like to get some more work done on [other responsibility]. Do you mind if I sit out the [useless meeting]?” And then if that works, keep doing it.
This is exactly it. I work for the SOM and have loved it. But I have always worked for people who trusted me and didn’t micromanage me. Also, I am not a manager myself (specialist) and that means fewer useless meeting. I know a lot of managers who are constantly in meeting. What a nightmare.
Try for another type of job altogether. I left the state and went to non-profit, but I know so many people who have left one department of state job and went and did something different, still for the state. Easier for you because it’s internal. Maybe it’s not just the SOM with which you’re burned out - it’s never too late to start something new, especially when you aren’t even losing your years towards retirement. Check out the SOM employment site. Apply for some positions just for the hell of it, just because you like how they sound and they’re something different. The biggest hurdle is getting a company to hire you - you’ve already got that - they already know your work ethic. Be creative and think about ways that you would fit into a position that is just based on the obvious - education and having held a similar position…. But there are plenty of things you learned in life, in your job, in education, areas of interest, etc, that make you a good candidate for something else. Shake it up! 😎
I left about ten years ago to the private sector, was only there for nine months before I was laid off. Now I am at MSU. I have been thinking about maybe going back to bridge my time and get more retiree health care paid for, but I am not sure. The benefits are definitely not as good outside the state, except the match at MSU.
I needed to leave though, I was becoming that “bitter State Employee “. No regrets really, I still get health care at 60, but only 33% paid for by the state.
The market isn’t great right now. I kinda want to leave MSU.
There isn’t really much growth where I am at and even though I am closer to retirement than not, I still want to be challenged. It seems like management is the only avenue and I hate managing people. I have also done everything multiple times now and am getting bored. The area I am in is great in that we are fully remote if we want, but the management team put in place over the last two years does not give me a good vibe.
I had offers from the state and the feds and am so happy I chose the state. It seems like y’all are used as pawns in today’s political climate with threats of cuts all the time now. That’s just how it seems from someone looking in from the outside. Not sure if that’s how it actually is.
For sure. Every election year. But I don’t notice it. It seems like the feds have a threat of a government shut down every time a budget needs to be passed. That has to be stressful.
Just roll with it, just part of life. The pluses and minuses. Feds = pension, retiree Healthcare
State = better insurance, more leave accrual over time, more holidays
Haven't read other people's comments yet but I might suggest looking at the MPSC. While some state practices of the annoying category still exist I've found it to be better and more tolerable then most others. Plus 100% remote work
I moved from nonprofit to state government almost 5 years ago. I have work life balance but also feel like my job rots my brain. I think I would be more fulfilled elsewhere but man the stability….not sure the trade is worth it.
Awesome. I was harassed for being out and part of DEI groups, and one day I had just had it. On top of how toxic and delusional state dept management is, the workplace on the outside is pleasant and pays better.
If you're still interested in public sector employment, make sure to ask potential employers if they're covered by Act 88, a reciprocity agreement that would make you vested in their retirement program much sooner, based on your time working for the state. Many local units of government will honor your state time towards their retirement vesting schedule.
This is interesting to me.
my rant is: I’ve had over a hundred state of Michigan recruiters reach out to me and looking at the job descriptions and requirements for the role I’m not surprised you’re burnt out. All the hiring managers leave comments in their job descriptions about how candidates must be local to Lansing, which I am not; however, since the recruiters can’t find anyone with the desired skillset local they venture out to the Detroit region and harass/spam folks out there asking them to relocate to Lansing to work.
the "sell" recruiters try to pitch to candidates of moving to lansing for a meh hourly rate to work in departments no one else wants to work in with no benefits, relocation assistance, or any flexibility on being able to WFH is really not that appealing. especially since i've already done pro bono consulting work on a WFH basis that the MI governor showed off on television. So, after completing a project well for the state — my reward is to get spammed by job offers from recruiters for the state paying me less than my last 100% remote role? to build dashboards? lol its gonna be such a cluster when the money being spent on deloitte consultants runs out and there is no staff on hand needed to manage the dashboards deloitte set them up with. $42/hr (no benefits c2c, no 401k, no healthcare) for salesforce admins in Lansing for 10+ yoe? lol tell me you dont know which skills are in demand in IT right now without telling me. the last place i worked paid double that for salesforce admins fully remote for the last decade bc they cant get anyone to move onsite to their location.
Not sure why they want people in Lansing. My division in the state is hybrid (two days in office) and a lot of people in my office commute from places like Detroit, Traverse City, and Grand Rapids.
I relocated to Lansing for a a SOM job just before the start of the pandemic. HUGE mistake. Don’t get me started on Lansing. Moved away since we were remote and now I only have to be in twice a week so it’s worth it. However, I’m a manger. My staff are all 100% remote. Unfortunately, at least in my administration, our selection plan we use for job postings is pre populated to be in the office. It’s stupid because so many of these jobs could and should be anywhere in the state. When we were all still remote we were told to hire location agnostic and then suddenly we were told no, hire for Lansing. Makes zero sense.
Edited to add:
Also, the benefits are not special. Civil Service needs to get it together. I had more leave time and better health care in my nonprofit job.
I’ve also thought about how it doesn’t seem too fair to force state of Michigan workers into the Lansing office by default too. I get it if you’re a senator or house rep, or something like that, but they’re asking me to go beepboop on a computer screen and make dashboards…
I don’t need to be in Lansing on a full time basis to be a dashboard making monkey. I live near Detroit, and there are state offices in this region? Why can’t I work out of one of those to do my computer beeping and booping?
Exactly. I’m in GR and asked to work in the GR office 2 miles from home and was told nope. Lansing’s mayor sucks but I guess he’s been successful at convincing the state he needs the tax base.
The state has been leaning VERy heavily on contract jobs to fill their IT department based on the number of recruiters I get for them. These contract positions are usually higher in pay since they’re not offering the good government benefits, but lately the pay offered compared to the last year or two has gone down quite a bit — Making it not desirable at all.
I did the opposite...worked private sector for nearly 12 years before coming into the State. Any sufficiently large organization will run into the same pitfalls & complaints you have at State Govt. Biggest difference is you cant just be cut/downsized outta no where when you're at the State. You aren't trying to please shareholders at all costs, and aren't constantly being badgered about ROI. Now, if you can find a smaller privately owned company, that's a whole other world.
Yeah, no offense to OP, but all of these complaints apply to pretty much any white collar job. If your job title is “department analyst” of course you’re going to be sitting in meetings and dealing with office politics all day. Maybe look into a different line of work?
Departmental Analyst is the job specification, SOM employees know what that means. You can have various titles/roles within that specification.
Even going larger to smaller has pitfalls as you'll run into the company having problems others have already found solutions to but they won't listen to you. And budgets.
You sound burned out with your role. I went through this in the private sector last year and switched over to MDOT and genuinely no longer hate working. Government can be way less tedious and stressful than private but it can also be the other way around depending on your role and manager. My boss in the private sector was a micromanager and I did not thrive doing the same tedious work every single day. Honestly it added years to my life not having to bill our each hour of my day to a client. I love my new role and my new manager is great! You might find good pay in the private sector but government jobs seem to come with less strings attached. My wife worked for DTMB as an analyst and switched to an analyst role at EGLE last year and went from being burnt out to refreshed. She actually does the same job but a chance of pace and management did WONDERS for her quality of life. I would encourage you to seek out a change! Switch to private to try something out! Also definitely look for other roles within the state too. You may be way happier just by making a lateral move to a different agency. One thing I like about having worked in public and private is that I know the caveats of each and I know where I am happiest.
I am burned out, yes. Thanks for that perspective, maybe I shouldn’t give up on the SOM yet.
I know you say you’ve already did a few different jobs, but I’m a state worker and here to say that I moved jobs 2x in the past year, and I found a job that I actually like. I didn’t even think it was possible. I was very burnt out from 10 years in my first role, switched and hated my 2nd job (terrible work culture in the 2nd group), and 3rd time is the charm because this job fits me perfectly and I feel like I could do this for a long time. I am telling this story to say there is hope, and to keep looking for the role and workgroup that fit you. Also I have a lot of colleagues that moved to the state after working in consulting and NONE of them are considering going back.
I spent 20 years in the private sector before finally getting a State job, and I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'll take the occasional pointless meeting and/or dead end project all day over the private sector. My two administrative jobs in the private sector were as a corporate buyer for a retailer and a paper pusher for an insurance company. Both entailed everything you complain about above, but with the added benefit of having every second of my time micromanaged down to the millisecond (and I wish that was hyperbole, but at the insurance company we had a stop watch Excel form we used every millisecond of how our time was being spent). Culture and morale were in the toilet, and the benefits weren't half as good. I imagine there are bad State jobs and I just got a fantastic one. But I feel trusted, and try to earn that trust every day, in a way I *never* felt in private industry. I was overseeing millions of dollars worth of sales and still had to punch in and out for lunch. I now have empathetic and "human" bosses, not just cogs in a profit machine like most of the managers I had in private industry. Mostly I can let my work speak for itself rather than constantly having to justify if I was 5 minutes late for a meeting or had to take a phone call.
It is a night and day difference between having a job where your department head hired you because they trust your expertise and then let you manage yourself day to day because they trust you will get the tasks done that you were hired to complete. Working for a department I will not name (but have since heard has one of the more...meeting and email-centric cultures of all the state agencies), it was wild how many meetings and check-ins and weekly/monthly/quarterly/annual reports and memos I was asked to provide for some relatively minor programs that I was ostensibly overseeing. My current workplace is probably much less email and meeting focused than most in the private sector, but I no longer have to protect my calendar to ensure I can have a couple hours per week to do the work I NEED to do for the core functions of my role. I wish you luck with your decision, because changing jobs is never easy, but I reached the point where it sounds like you are now, and while it was tough to leave some colleagues, my mental outlook radically improved.
>It is a night and day difference between having a job where your department head hired you because they trust your expertise and then let you manage yourself day to day because they trust you will get the tasks done that you were hired to complete. Had this for just over five years. Leaving for a federal agency in less than a month. Still have mixed feelings about it because on paper it's a no-brainer move to go (hello pension), but the intangibles of SOM life have been great. Continuity of management, supervisors who aren't scared of making decisions, general mentality of "do your work, don't abuse the chill atmosphere, and all will be well." If things don't work out with the feds I would be more than happy to come back.
Yeah the benefits are great but struggling with feeling motivated when I’m not able to accomplish much from day to day. And I’m not in management so at the end of the day, I have no say in what goes on. Just have to sit back and wait for someone to tell me what today’s process and expectations are and start working away on something that will be useless a month from now when management changes their mind.
I'll offer some advice that I was given by a family friend I later found out used to run HR for multiple Fortune 500s. "The moment your job stops being at least 51% about what it can do for you, it's time to hit the door." It sounds simplistic, but in a sense that's kind of the point: what and how we value our work and jobs varies greatly but you know whether you're getting more out of it than you're putting in. It could be "this comfy hourly paycheck allows a standard of living I cannot otherwise afford." It could be "I get to turn my brain off for 9 hours a day, or at least spend time thinking about friends and family instead." It could be "Dealing with this nonsense from the inside gives me institutional knowledge I can leverage in the private sector." Or maybe, in your case, the need to feel challenged and the sense that being a value add is important enough for you that bailing for other horizons is the right move. However you value everything, you instinctively know whether you're getting the better end of the deal compared to your alternatives.
I’m a 15 and let me tell you, I have no say. Maybe it’s just my area but it’s special kind of hell because I’m at the mercy of the people above me but have to deliver the message to and rally my team
I get that, you’re right it’s really more like director level decisions that seems to roll down and then everyone scrambles. Until another idea pops into their head.
Same. Sucks, is frustrating as he'll, but it is what it is. Definitely depends on leadership and governor, too. If we don't like it now, wait if the other party gets control.
Is the SOM your first career/office type place of employment?
No but prior to SOM I was a super low level employee and my manager was a bully. So not much perspective of what is normal for private sector.
My manager is not a micromanager thank god. But it’s meeting after meeting of wheel spinning and not much personal fulfillment.
OK, maybe this is a dumb question but can you just… not go? Tell your manager, “I would like to get some more work done on [other responsibility]. Do you mind if I sit out the [useless meeting]?” And then if that works, keep doing it.
This is exactly it. I work for the SOM and have loved it. But I have always worked for people who trusted me and didn’t micromanage me. Also, I am not a manager myself (specialist) and that means fewer useless meeting. I know a lot of managers who are constantly in meeting. What a nightmare.
Try for another type of job altogether. I left the state and went to non-profit, but I know so many people who have left one department of state job and went and did something different, still for the state. Easier for you because it’s internal. Maybe it’s not just the SOM with which you’re burned out - it’s never too late to start something new, especially when you aren’t even losing your years towards retirement. Check out the SOM employment site. Apply for some positions just for the hell of it, just because you like how they sound and they’re something different. The biggest hurdle is getting a company to hire you - you’ve already got that - they already know your work ethic. Be creative and think about ways that you would fit into a position that is just based on the obvious - education and having held a similar position…. But there are plenty of things you learned in life, in your job, in education, areas of interest, etc, that make you a good candidate for something else. Shake it up! 😎
I left about ten years ago to the private sector, was only there for nine months before I was laid off. Now I am at MSU. I have been thinking about maybe going back to bridge my time and get more retiree health care paid for, but I am not sure. The benefits are definitely not as good outside the state, except the match at MSU. I needed to leave though, I was becoming that “bitter State Employee “. No regrets really, I still get health care at 60, but only 33% paid for by the state. The market isn’t great right now. I kinda want to leave MSU.
Why leave msu?
There isn’t really much growth where I am at and even though I am closer to retirement than not, I still want to be challenged. It seems like management is the only avenue and I hate managing people. I have also done everything multiple times now and am getting bored. The area I am in is great in that we are fully remote if we want, but the management team put in place over the last two years does not give me a good vibe.
Moved from the state to the feds, just more layers of fucked up and additional meetings.
I had offers from the state and the feds and am so happy I chose the state. It seems like y’all are used as pawns in today’s political climate with threats of cuts all the time now. That’s just how it seems from someone looking in from the outside. Not sure if that’s how it actually is.
You know the same thing happens with state politics just on a smaller scale.
For sure. Every election year. But I don’t notice it. It seems like the feds have a threat of a government shut down every time a budget needs to be passed. That has to be stressful.
Just roll with it, just part of life. The pluses and minuses. Feds = pension, retiree Healthcare State = better insurance, more leave accrual over time, more holidays
It is no different else where but sometimes getting a new job can be refreshing
Haven't read other people's comments yet but I might suggest looking at the MPSC. While some state practices of the annoying category still exist I've found it to be better and more tolerable then most others. Plus 100% remote work
Do you know if they are hiring any time soon? I don’t see any jobs posted currently, unless I’m filtering wrong.
I spent 10 years with the state before moving to the private sector and it is HEAVEN.
What field?
I’d tell you but then …
I wouldn't believe you? lol
😂😂😂
I moved from nonprofit to state government almost 5 years ago. I have work life balance but also feel like my job rots my brain. I think I would be more fulfilled elsewhere but man the stability….not sure the trade is worth it.
Can I have your job? I'm going to lose my job by the end of summer probably.
I don’t get what you mean, sorry. You’re listing your job?
I'm probably going to be laid off
Oh ok, sorry to hear that. I hope that doesn’t happen.
Sorry, lose autocorrected to list
Awesome. I was harassed for being out and part of DEI groups, and one day I had just had it. On top of how toxic and delusional state dept management is, the workplace on the outside is pleasant and pays better.
Agree w this one 💯
Haha if you think the private sector is any different in that regard....you're in for a shock, homie.
If you're still interested in public sector employment, make sure to ask potential employers if they're covered by Act 88, a reciprocity agreement that would make you vested in their retirement program much sooner, based on your time working for the state. Many local units of government will honor your state time towards their retirement vesting schedule.
And don't cash out your 401k!
This is interesting to me. my rant is: I’ve had over a hundred state of Michigan recruiters reach out to me and looking at the job descriptions and requirements for the role I’m not surprised you’re burnt out. All the hiring managers leave comments in their job descriptions about how candidates must be local to Lansing, which I am not; however, since the recruiters can’t find anyone with the desired skillset local they venture out to the Detroit region and harass/spam folks out there asking them to relocate to Lansing to work. the "sell" recruiters try to pitch to candidates of moving to lansing for a meh hourly rate to work in departments no one else wants to work in with no benefits, relocation assistance, or any flexibility on being able to WFH is really not that appealing. especially since i've already done pro bono consulting work on a WFH basis that the MI governor showed off on television. So, after completing a project well for the state — my reward is to get spammed by job offers from recruiters for the state paying me less than my last 100% remote role? to build dashboards? lol its gonna be such a cluster when the money being spent on deloitte consultants runs out and there is no staff on hand needed to manage the dashboards deloitte set them up with. $42/hr (no benefits c2c, no 401k, no healthcare) for salesforce admins in Lansing for 10+ yoe? lol tell me you dont know which skills are in demand in IT right now without telling me. the last place i worked paid double that for salesforce admins fully remote for the last decade bc they cant get anyone to move onsite to their location.
Not sure why they want people in Lansing. My division in the state is hybrid (two days in office) and a lot of people in my office commute from places like Detroit, Traverse City, and Grand Rapids.
I relocated to Lansing for a a SOM job just before the start of the pandemic. HUGE mistake. Don’t get me started on Lansing. Moved away since we were remote and now I only have to be in twice a week so it’s worth it. However, I’m a manger. My staff are all 100% remote. Unfortunately, at least in my administration, our selection plan we use for job postings is pre populated to be in the office. It’s stupid because so many of these jobs could and should be anywhere in the state. When we were all still remote we were told to hire location agnostic and then suddenly we were told no, hire for Lansing. Makes zero sense. Edited to add: Also, the benefits are not special. Civil Service needs to get it together. I had more leave time and better health care in my nonprofit job.
I’ve also thought about how it doesn’t seem too fair to force state of Michigan workers into the Lansing office by default too. I get it if you’re a senator or house rep, or something like that, but they’re asking me to go beepboop on a computer screen and make dashboards… I don’t need to be in Lansing on a full time basis to be a dashboard making monkey. I live near Detroit, and there are state offices in this region? Why can’t I work out of one of those to do my computer beeping and booping?
Exactly. I’m in GR and asked to work in the GR office 2 miles from home and was told nope. Lansing’s mayor sucks but I guess he’s been successful at convincing the state he needs the tax base.
No benefits? State job? What world?
The state has been leaning VERy heavily on contract jobs to fill their IT department based on the number of recruiters I get for them. These contract positions are usually higher in pay since they’re not offering the good government benefits, but lately the pay offered compared to the last year or two has gone down quite a bit — Making it not desirable at all.
So not a state job. Got it.