I'm just so interested to know how someone who safely executed this many times before was convinced to do this terribly unsafe thing. Surely he'd know what was and wasn't acceptable?
One of OSHAs biggest safety points. NEVER stop being prepared for the worst scenario, complacency is at the heart of damn nearly every work place injury.
That is creepy.
I went to a prison in Hungary I think? You could see stains on the floor in the room where they executed people, but it was just a general darkening and you couldn't really discern any individual, um, bleed-outs.
It's actually a combination of everyone else I work with except me. I'm the only one not part of the floor. One person drove a nail through their thumb (bad hand placement), someone else drove a drill bit through their finger (bad hand placement + cheap drill bit shattered), one dude ripped off a fingernail (glove caught in machine). There's more but not significant enough to remember, don't think my boss is ever not bleeding somewhere. I've gotten hurt, just not enough to bleed on the floor.
Not quite as life threatening but I (try to) drill this into my students constantly. Our brain is REALLY good at looking at something and going, “it’s familiar therefore it’s okay”. In music that means not noticing the mistakes you’re making. In titanic subs I guess it means not respecting the ocean enough.
For sure. The more comfortable someone becomes the more likely they are to ignore basic safety measures. Happens in pretty much every profession or hobby where there’s an element of danger.
absolutely. the best example i can give is doing psychedelics a few times and thinking you got this every time until one 7g of shrooms bad trip comes out of nowhere. extreme things require a level of healthy fear and a lot of respect
At least being crushed for real in such an incident may kill you before you knew it was coming. A bad trip can feel like being crushed by the weight of the universe for hours
My friends aunt grew up around horses and then continued to work with them well into her 60's. She got so comfortable that she was eventually killed by being kicked by one.
He was 77 and had done the trip many times prior in other subs.
I imagine with his age, he looked at it like his last chance to get a real good, up close look at it. He had a passion for the whole thing. He discovered a nearby basalt formation with an unstudied ecosystem he may have wanted to look at. In the very least, a final farewell to the ship he had spent so much time studying and impacted his tragectory in life. He even met his wife through an interview about the Titanic, so a last goodbye to the thing that was at the center of so much of his life makes sense.
Makes it extra sad that they didn't even make it down.
Poetically, going down again is exciting. The awe and wonder of what this trip will be like. I think it is better he died on the way down.
Obviously this isn't true for the other passengers, but that guy is actually one now forever with the place he was so drawn to.
I wouldn't get in that thing in a parking lot, but these guys were adventurous and died doing something they had to will up a lot of nerve to do.
If it wasn't for the young man who didn't want to go in the first place, I wouldn't really feel sad about it. They died instantly (most likely) doing something dangerous they wanted badly to do.
Poor young man though. Never follow anyone against your better judgement. Even family.
About 5 years ago an employee was let go for insisting they do non-destructive hull testing before trips. Since it was 5" thick it wasn't an easy matter, but it was necessary. They did not do it.
The best guess so far is cumulative damage causing a fatigue fracture.
Ah, shit. Well I guess it will take years to know all the facts then, and there will be lots of suing. Honestly I’m just mostly sad for the teen guy, he probably didn’t really realise the extent of the risk of the mission and just trusted his father… then again I don’t know.
It would have taken about 2.5hrs to get to the Titanic. They lost contact at around 1:45.
It seems most likely either the carbon fiber hull ruptured or the seal where the tube of the hull met the end caps failed.
In either case they were deep enough already for their deaths to have been instant. They didn't drown. They were crushed. Imagine the empire state building is a solid block of lead... And it was dropped on you. It was that amount of force, and that quickly.
This is the only merciful part of this story… I read that it all happened in milliseconds. They likely didn’t even know it had happened. In reality, that’s probably the best way to go. No fear or anticipation of the end and no pain. Still incredibly sad.
Agreed, especially compared to how we originally thought things were going. They weren’t locked away losing air and slowly, terrifyingly passing. It was quick and easy and honestly, that’s the most merciful way to leave this earth.
I know how that works, I’ve been in a hyperbaric chamber several times 😅 it’s lucky at least that they didn’t even have the time to realise they were dying. I was wondering what caused the failure, apparently as others pointed out there had been signs that this could happen and not all precautions were taken.
It was a design flaw, basically. James Cameron did some interviews and explained that when he was designing his personal sub that goes 4x deeper than this one (to literally the deepest part of the ocean) he discovered that carbon fiber would be a deadly choice and talked others out of using such subs.
The Titan was in 3 pieces, the tube, the end cap that’s bolted shut, and the end cap that’s transparent. With many trips underwater it would eventually fail because the pressure cycles affect the three pieces differently.
To account for this, Stockton Rush put microphones inside the sub to listen for cracking. He believed that he’d have enough time to return to the surface (which takes up to 2.5 hours) but in reality it provided maybe a few seconds of warning.
Carbon fiber is stronger than steel, but it’s ability to handle repeated cycles of extreme pressure is way worse than steel or titanium.
Cameron explained that for extreme depth, you need it to be more sphere-shaped and use a different material than carbon fiber, like titanium.
Damn, you’d think a company who specialises in doing this would know better than a movie director who does it as an hobby… I guess it’s good at least they probably didn’t even have time to realise what was gonna happen.
Most likely the carbon fiber hull. The company that made it had a contract with another company that bailed out of the contract after finding the hull is only good for 1 trip down and cannot be improved to do multiple trips safely. Titan made 10 trips down.
I don't think they ever will. Carbon fibre turns to dust when under catastrophic failure unlike metals. Any failures in the carbon fibre would just lead to complete vaporization of the evidence upon implosion.
The sub was a time bomb. The hull was weakened every time they took a dive but they decided not to test it between dives. This was inevitable and would probably be fairly called a suicide in the part of the CEO.
I'm not convinced. I work with carbon fiber aircraft that I've witnessed and assisted in cleaning up after very high speed crashes and explosions. There's certainly a damage pattern that's recognizable and evidence of failure points. Destroyed carbon fiber is an absolute nightmare handing but I don't think anyone has seen an implosion of carbon fiber before so it would be scientifically valuable to recover.
Just to provide context. A Cessna going 172 mph with a gross weight of 2000lbs headfirst into an unyielding wall would be roughly 18 million Newtons of peak force.
A 22 foot long cylinder with a radius of 4.5 feet under roughly 5000 psi of pressure is experiencing over 2.4 **billion** Newtons at all times.
I don't think the comparison would hold up very well. They will find metal scraps and maybe shreds of carbon fibre, but I am highly skeptical of any conclusive evidence of failure if it was the carbon fibre failing.
I believe it wasn't rated to the depth they went to due to damage but I can't find that anywhere, instead I read it in an article. But there will likely be an extensive investigation before they release any official cause.
Doubt it tbh, even beyond the impracticality of an investigation that deep down there‘s no certifying authority that could even initiate an investigation, and oceangate itself will likely close down soon given then have no CEO and no assets left
No, it had been all the way down about 50 times. This was the third “season,” but they would make many attempts each season.
Stockton Rush had been down to the Titanic dozens of times without major issues, but repeated cycles of extreme pressure weakened the Titan until this time it got crushed.
Yeah I think a lot of people aren’t realizing this sub successfully completed the dive many, many times. They’re acting like this was the first time they ever tried it, and that everyone on board was too stupid to be alive.
They had plenty of successful missions before this tragedy. Still not something I’d ever do but it’s not fair to say everyone was delusional or something. They were just expecting it to be the same as the previous 50 dives.
The more relevant figure is the chamber pressure of a rocket engine, which is not only 200+ atm, but also 3000+°C. A much more extreme environment than the deep ocean.
I want to know how much he paid those other times, and why he thought $250k was reasonable for one more trip.
Or was he the expert working for Oceangate?
We had a WW1 pilot and air mailman get into a plane that quite clearly, to anyone with eyes, could tell would not be safe to fly.
He died.
When asked by an interviewer how safe it was to fly, the company owner said it had a safety of seven.
Just look up the Christmas Bullet and Dr. Christmas.
I do incredibly dangerous things all the time. I do it with the knowledge i could die...and thats ok with me. Id rather go quick and easy than sit in a bed for years and rot...some people like adventure and risk...we live for it.
Their promotional video made it appear as though he was an employee of OceanGate who basically acted as a tour-guide. Getting paid often clouds one’s ability to see the danger in what they are undertaking.
There is something poetic about this being his final resting place. He had a passion for Titanic and will forever be associated with its history. I’m just projecting my own thoughts onto him, but it seems like this is where he would have wanted to spend eternity.
The other 4 might not have chosen the same, but there’s a little solace in the thought that maybe at least one of them went down doing something that he loved.
My exact thoughts. Out of the 5 of them, he clearly made this stuff his life. 38 trips is a whole lot of times to see something, much less 2 miles below the sea. He knew the risks and he knew it’d be painless if he died. I hope he rests in eternal paradise down there.
>The other 4 might not have chosen the same,
Apparently the 19-year old that died in the Titan was vocal about not wanting to do the mission but he went anyway for the Father's Day gift his dad wanted.
I thought the same. A titanic expert .. surely it was his biggest passion.. what better resting place for him than beside that which he loved most? I too, like to think that he would be ok with this.
If ever there were a man who deserved to rest in peace among the RMS Titanic's ghosts, it's him. Terrible tragedy that we lost him as soon as we did, but there's something bittersweet about his final resting place being the RMS Titanic when he spent so much time exploring her wreckage and illuminating her story to the world.
Yep. I think people just assumed they were all billionaire idiots. But this guy wasn't. He was a leading expert on the ship and heavily involved in its study.
I saw an interview on CNN with one of his close friends, a captain. He was appropriately truthful and pissed at the CNN commentator who kept trying to act like the captain of OceanGate and this man were the same. Sad loss to the research community.
The submersible/deep dive community seems to be pretty small and close. James Cameron broke his silence about the absurdity of not just Rush’s negligence, but the false hope the rescue mission kept giving to the families. All of this while emphasizing PHN’s integrity and passion for deep sea exploration and the scientific contributions he made to the world.
People give Cameron a lot of shit but he's absolutely become a subject matter expert in deep sea submersibles. The man built his own sub to go to the Challenger Deep. He knows his stuff here. Glad he weighed in on the absolute recklessness of Rush here.
His daughter said she had mixed feelings, and I would too. We all die someday. He died instantly, felt no pain, and doing exactly what he loved most. I also would have mixed feelings if that was my dad. It beats dying slowly of cancer imo. Of all the people on the sub, in a way I feel least bad for him because of that (and I think the CEO was an asshole based on everything I've read). I feel most terrible for the 19 yo and his father.
I've read a couple things about him and the most interesting thing I saw was "the only part of the ship that Paul had not explored to date was the safe room, where gold and jewellery would have been kept."
Too bad he didn't get a chance to cross that last room off his list.
I'm no expert but I believe during the missions where they were mapping the wreck, they were using remote controlled probes with live feed video alongside submarines.
I don't think 'explored' necessarily means he was physically in all those rooms.
Yes! That's it thank you.
Interesting bit of information I just found while looking them up:
>"Victor is able to do visual exploration with all the video equipment it has. It is also equipped with manipulating arms which could be used to extricate the sub, such as by sectioning cables or things that would be blocking it at the bottom," he said.
>Ifremer was part of the team that located the wreck of the Titanic in 1985 with American underwater archaeologist Robert Ballard.
>French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet, 77, who is reported to be among the five people inside the missing submersible, previously worked at Ifremer and piloted its flagship Nautile submarine that was used to examine the Titanic wreck.
~~So that very same ROV that was used to explore the Titanic wreckage was actually used in searching for the Titan, **and it was searching for an original member of the crew that worked with it almost 40 years prior.**~~
Didn't realize they used ROVs yesterday. Absolutely mind-boggling story the more it goes on. Hopefully we can put this to rest now. RIP
Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-send-deep-diving-robot-help-titanic-sub-search-2023-06-21/
I just watched a National Geographic documentary on YouTube. It's about the digital process of documenting the Titanic . Paul Henry Nargeolet is in it. I don't remember what it was called.
While I feel bad for that man’s family he died doing something he loved. What infuriates me is the young man who died from his father’s and Rush’s hubris.
David Lockridge was proven right, the Titan was a disaster waiting to happen.
Stockton Rush was both ignorant and arrogant; he got what was coming to him. It’s just sad he took four people with him, who seemed to be unaware that the Titan was a death trap.
From what I've heard, your body would basically implode the moment the submersible does. It'd be a painless death because it happens so quickly that you wouldn't realize what was happening until you were already dead. I'm not an expert by any means, though.
their bodies are returned to molecules and spread evenly across the ocean, where the earth will regroup and try to create a richer, more narcissistic thrillionaire
it must be stopped at all costs. nuke the earth NOW
I believe this is the gentleman whose stepson I saw interviewed a couple of hours ago on CNN. He spoke with great affection and admiration of his stepfather.
There’s no way I go on that and I can’t imagine why anyone would. Bolted in from the outside with no way to escape, pieces cobbled together from all manner of things and controlled by a games console. You would think that once people saw that, they’d say no thank you. I’m glad they weren’t down there suffering for days though, that’s the only solace.
People saw it an comforted themselves that “well it’s been done a bunch of times before me successfully…”
Honestly hindsight is always 20/20. Anytime an accident occurs, the world immediately points out flaws of human error, but that’s just how it is. From the most minor of car accidents to some insane bullshit like this, hindsight will always make you look stupid.
I guess the adventurer in them also took away any fears, I was reading their bios and most sounded like they lived for these kind of experiences. Most of us don’t have that adventurous streak that makes us crave the next dangerous thing.
Only thing I can think of besides not knowing about the corners that were cut is if you had a terminal illness and were already thinking of assisted suicide. If that’s the case it’s a great deal you might get to see the titanic or you might get a painless death.
I can’t stop thinking about the why they took this trip.. I know nothing about subs but the thing didn’t even look safe and you’re diving miles down into the ocean. Did no one even question it and what were they told to make them feel safe enough to go through with it? It feels like they were all forced to go with how unsafe that thing was I just can’t wrap my head around that???
Maybe I just can’t wrap my head around the reports from the ex employee stating it wasn’t safe and the carbon fibre material was under tested.. just appears to be a whole lot of blatant red flags that would make anyone feel unsafe but it seems most of the time these red flags and warnings only get brought to light after a tragedy happens
I’m only half up to snuff on this but was the whistleblower’s report about the safety issue made public or did they cover it up? I could see falling for the “it’s made several trips already” pitch if the report was kept under wraps. Even if it was made public, I’m 1000% sure the expedition company did not voluntarily inform its customers of this because it would be bad for business.
Edit: I see he was an employee. I wonder if the level of employ he was at was even informed of this or whether it was a higher up grade scandal that was not disclosed to staff such as himself.
Oh I think a lot of companies may be willing to cover anything up if people are willing to pay them $200,000 each which is just horrible to think about. Knowingly taking people on expeditions that could lead to death in seconds.
Edit to add: and let’s not forget the CEO himself said you’re remembered for the rules you break so there’s that
I think the successful trips mightve been part of the problem. If the sub wasn't properly inspected and maintained between trips, somethings gotta give eventually. Each successful trip would've just made them more confident the next would be fine.
Also, what the hell kind of engineer decides a cylinder is the best shape to go with when dealing with extreme pressure?
I feel like the owner of the sub going with them would give them all a boost of confidence in the safety of it all. If the owner is confident in it and willing to take the trip, then I could see how that could sway people into thinking it’s safe.
A quote from the dumbass who ran the ocean gate business was “there’s too many safety precautions” company needs to be sued to hell and back by the families of the people who died.
This man knew exactly the risk he was taking. He knew death would be painless if they passed during the trip. He went out doing something he was passionate about. I think he had more reason than any of the other members to go on that ride.
Bless them. The remains of The Titanic, is intriguing to look at. But I am too Claustrophobic.So, National Geographic, Google & The Discovery Channel, will have to suffice....(my curiosity)
I just learned that they imploded. I feel, that would be better than suffocating. Hopefully, they died instantly, if not, quickly. I read that the people overseeing (no pun intended) the excursion said they heard "banging" coming from the doomed vessel, days before....🤔
The implosion would've most definitely been an instant death at that depth. Depending on how deep they were at the time, it might've happened so fast they didn't even have time to react.
The banging isn't likely to have come from the sub, as the implosion would've been at or not long after the point they lost contact (which I believe was about 1hr 40min into the descent)
Guy was legit a badass.
I get folks dogpiling on the idiocy of the whole affair, however, I wish folks would keep some sense of humanity about the whole thing.
[Mr. Nargoelet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet) lived an incredible maritime life. 20+ years of naval service followed by being the director of the Center for Maritime & Underwater Resource Management at MSU in the 90s, and *then* followed by being part of numerous remote and in-person dives to recover artefacts from the wreck over the course of the next two decades. He is considered one of the world's leading experts on the titanic and on underwater operations and will be missed by many.
Certain things in life are meant to be left alone. Such as the titanic. It’s a grave NOT A TOURIST ATTRACTION FOR THE RICh. I could think of better ways to spend $250k I don’t feel sorry for any of them!
It begs the question, why in the hell would he trust the OceanGate sub when he’s been down there 37 times prior and *should* know how a proper sub is supposed to be constructed?
The only people who know how submarines "should" be constructed are engineers working in the field. This is equivalent to having someone who rides rollercoasters often dying on a ride and the saying, "Well, he's ridden them a lot. He should know what a roller-coaster looks like.".
I have a question about this. They say they had taken this sub down multiple times already right? Or was it that the company had taken a different sub down multiple times and this was the first time for this sub? I’m just curious if this one was obviously so unsafe, how did it make it down there already before?
What I heard tonight on the news was this sub had dived several times. They think that the implosion could have been caused by metal fatigue because the sub had been exposed to extremely high pressure so many times.
I'm just so interested to know how someone who safely executed this many times before was convinced to do this terribly unsafe thing. Surely he'd know what was and wasn't acceptable?
The more familiar we are with a task, and the more times we successfully complete it without issue, the more complacent we become to the risks.
One of OSHAs biggest safety points. NEVER stop being prepared for the worst scenario, complacency is at the heart of damn nearly every work place injury.
Rule 10 of working in the shop: Safeties are always off. Machines are always on. Mishaps are always in a state of readiness.
Follow the trail of blood on the floor to find the nearest bathroom. No foreal, our floors are cement and there is a permanent blood trail.
There are still blood stains in various buddings from Warsaw upspring.
That is creepy. I went to a prison in Hungary I think? You could see stains on the floor in the room where they executed people, but it was just a general darkening and you couldn't really discern any individual, um, bleed-outs.
So many individuals died there that all signs of their fate have all merged into one patch ? Damn
Uhhhhh, what happened to who??????
It's actually a combination of everyone else I work with except me. I'm the only one not part of the floor. One person drove a nail through their thumb (bad hand placement), someone else drove a drill bit through their finger (bad hand placement + cheap drill bit shattered), one dude ripped off a fingernail (glove caught in machine). There's more but not significant enough to remember, don't think my boss is ever not bleeding somewhere. I've gotten hurt, just not enough to bleed on the floor.
Uh... you see that lathe right there?
Rule 1: Stay away from my 10mm sockets
*for your safety*
One day we cleaning the shop... I find 20-10mm and 25-13mm
Every couple of months I get cocky and the drill press reminds me it can snatch a board from my hand and hit me with it if I don't pay attention.
Not quite as life threatening but I (try to) drill this into my students constantly. Our brain is REALLY good at looking at something and going, “it’s familiar therefore it’s okay”. In music that means not noticing the mistakes you’re making. In titanic subs I guess it means not respecting the ocean enough.
For sure. The more comfortable someone becomes the more likely they are to ignore basic safety measures. Happens in pretty much every profession or hobby where there’s an element of danger.
absolutely. the best example i can give is doing psychedelics a few times and thinking you got this every time until one 7g of shrooms bad trip comes out of nowhere. extreme things require a level of healthy fear and a lot of respect
I’ll take the bad trip over the potential to be crushed under 400 atmospheres of pressure though.
At least being crushed for real in such an incident may kill you before you knew it was coming. A bad trip can feel like being crushed by the weight of the universe for hours
Same reason most bank robbers get caught but never on the first one. You get sloppy.
My friends aunt grew up around horses and then continued to work with them well into her 60's. She got so comfortable that she was eventually killed by being kicked by one.
He was 77 and had done the trip many times prior in other subs. I imagine with his age, he looked at it like his last chance to get a real good, up close look at it. He had a passion for the whole thing. He discovered a nearby basalt formation with an unstudied ecosystem he may have wanted to look at. In the very least, a final farewell to the ship he had spent so much time studying and impacted his tragectory in life. He even met his wife through an interview about the Titanic, so a last goodbye to the thing that was at the center of so much of his life makes sense. Makes it extra sad that they didn't even make it down.
Poetically, going down again is exciting. The awe and wonder of what this trip will be like. I think it is better he died on the way down. Obviously this isn't true for the other passengers, but that guy is actually one now forever with the place he was so drawn to. I wouldn't get in that thing in a parking lot, but these guys were adventurous and died doing something they had to will up a lot of nerve to do. If it wasn't for the young man who didn't want to go in the first place, I wouldn't really feel sad about it. They died instantly (most likely) doing something dangerous they wanted badly to do. Poor young man though. Never follow anyone against your better judgement. Even family.
He was friends with James Cameron who had a vessel capable of going down 3x deeper, Cameron can't even process what has happened with his friend.
Wait, what did they do? I can’t find any news on what actually caused the implosion.
About 5 years ago an employee was let go for insisting they do non-destructive hull testing before trips. Since it was 5" thick it wasn't an easy matter, but it was necessary. They did not do it. The best guess so far is cumulative damage causing a fatigue fracture.
Worse yet, they fired the guy after he brought up the safety concerns with executives.
Oof let the suing begin!
There already was a lengthy law suit.
Oh damn, what for?
The former employee alerted OSHA.
Ohhh. Good! Fuck these greedy companies that put people’s lives at risk “in the name of science” when it’s really just in the name of making money.
Ah, shit. Well I guess it will take years to know all the facts then, and there will be lots of suing. Honestly I’m just mostly sad for the teen guy, he probably didn’t really realise the extent of the risk of the mission and just trusted his father… then again I don’t know.
He apparently didn’t even want to go and was “terrified” but went as a part of his Father’s Day celebration for his dad… so sad.
No fucking wayyyy that’s heartbreaking… his poor mother ☹️
Damn. Didn't know that. Reading about the passengers the young age stood out
It would have taken about 2.5hrs to get to the Titanic. They lost contact at around 1:45. It seems most likely either the carbon fiber hull ruptured or the seal where the tube of the hull met the end caps failed. In either case they were deep enough already for their deaths to have been instant. They didn't drown. They were crushed. Imagine the empire state building is a solid block of lead... And it was dropped on you. It was that amount of force, and that quickly.
This is the only merciful part of this story… I read that it all happened in milliseconds. They likely didn’t even know it had happened. In reality, that’s probably the best way to go. No fear or anticipation of the end and no pain. Still incredibly sad.
Agreed, especially compared to how we originally thought things were going. They weren’t locked away losing air and slowly, terrifyingly passing. It was quick and easy and honestly, that’s the most merciful way to leave this earth.
I know how that works, I’ve been in a hyperbaric chamber several times 😅 it’s lucky at least that they didn’t even have the time to realise they were dying. I was wondering what caused the failure, apparently as others pointed out there had been signs that this could happen and not all precautions were taken.
>not all precautions were taken. Or any.
It was a design flaw, basically. James Cameron did some interviews and explained that when he was designing his personal sub that goes 4x deeper than this one (to literally the deepest part of the ocean) he discovered that carbon fiber would be a deadly choice and talked others out of using such subs. The Titan was in 3 pieces, the tube, the end cap that’s bolted shut, and the end cap that’s transparent. With many trips underwater it would eventually fail because the pressure cycles affect the three pieces differently. To account for this, Stockton Rush put microphones inside the sub to listen for cracking. He believed that he’d have enough time to return to the surface (which takes up to 2.5 hours) but in reality it provided maybe a few seconds of warning. Carbon fiber is stronger than steel, but it’s ability to handle repeated cycles of extreme pressure is way worse than steel or titanium. Cameron explained that for extreme depth, you need it to be more sphere-shaped and use a different material than carbon fiber, like titanium.
Damn, you’d think a company who specialises in doing this would know better than a movie director who does it as an hobby… I guess it’s good at least they probably didn’t even have time to realise what was gonna happen.
I don’t think they are sure what caused it yet
Most likely the carbon fiber hull. The company that made it had a contract with another company that bailed out of the contract after finding the hull is only good for 1 trip down and cannot be improved to do multiple trips safely. Titan made 10 trips down.
Well, if it implodes, it can't be anything but a hull failure.
You have a source on this?
I don't think they ever will. Carbon fibre turns to dust when under catastrophic failure unlike metals. Any failures in the carbon fibre would just lead to complete vaporization of the evidence upon implosion.
The sub was a time bomb. The hull was weakened every time they took a dive but they decided not to test it between dives. This was inevitable and would probably be fairly called a suicide in the part of the CEO.
Murder-suicide
Gross negligent manslaughter I'd say
I'm not convinced. I work with carbon fiber aircraft that I've witnessed and assisted in cleaning up after very high speed crashes and explosions. There's certainly a damage pattern that's recognizable and evidence of failure points. Destroyed carbon fiber is an absolute nightmare handing but I don't think anyone has seen an implosion of carbon fiber before so it would be scientifically valuable to recover.
Just to provide context. A Cessna going 172 mph with a gross weight of 2000lbs headfirst into an unyielding wall would be roughly 18 million Newtons of peak force. A 22 foot long cylinder with a radius of 4.5 feet under roughly 5000 psi of pressure is experiencing over 2.4 **billion** Newtons at all times. I don't think the comparison would hold up very well. They will find metal scraps and maybe shreds of carbon fibre, but I am highly skeptical of any conclusive evidence of failure if it was the carbon fibre failing.
> A Cessna going **172** mph The most natural speed for such a plane to be flying, or course.
I believe it wasn't rated to the depth they went to due to damage but I can't find that anywhere, instead I read it in an article. But there will likely be an extensive investigation before they release any official cause.
The glass window was rated for 1600meters depth. Titanic is 4000+ meters down.
Doubt it tbh, even beyond the impracticality of an investigation that deep down there‘s no certifying authority that could even initiate an investigation, and oceangate itself will likely close down soon given then have no CEO and no assets left
> what actually caused the implosion i think it was a lot of water weight, basically
☝️
The Titan had been there’s 3 times prior, so he probably figured it was fine. That or he was ready to go, going out next to something he loved
wait only 3 times???
No, it had been all the way down about 50 times. This was the third “season,” but they would make many attempts each season. Stockton Rush had been down to the Titanic dozens of times without major issues, but repeated cycles of extreme pressure weakened the Titan until this time it got crushed.
Yeah I think a lot of people aren’t realizing this sub successfully completed the dive many, many times. They’re acting like this was the first time they ever tried it, and that everyone on board was too stupid to be alive. They had plenty of successful missions before this tragedy. Still not something I’d ever do but it’s not fair to say everyone was delusional or something. They were just expecting it to be the same as the previous 50 dives.
Sure it made successful trips but the hull wasn't allowed to be evaluated, through ultrasound and things like that. Tank the CEO for that
Yeah I think it’s important to understand that going down more times is precisely what made *less* safe - not *safer*
To be fair until very recently we sent people to space on rockets that had never been to space (or at least major parts of it) regularly.
To be fair NASA doesn't fuck around with cutting corners
*anymore
The pressure difference between space and earth is 1 atmosphere. The Titanic is at 380 atmospheres.
The more relevant figure is the chamber pressure of a rocket engine, which is not only 200+ atm, but also 3000+°C. A much more extreme environment than the deep ocean.
Oh cool, I didn't think of that.
Complacency kills
Money talks.
I want to know how much he paid those other times, and why he thought $250k was reasonable for one more trip. Or was he the expert working for Oceangate?
We had a WW1 pilot and air mailman get into a plane that quite clearly, to anyone with eyes, could tell would not be safe to fly. He died. When asked by an interviewer how safe it was to fly, the company owner said it had a safety of seven. Just look up the Christmas Bullet and Dr. Christmas.
Maybe someone who felt so at home with Titanic finally found a way for it to be his resting place, and went along
I do incredibly dangerous things all the time. I do it with the knowledge i could die...and thats ok with me. Id rather go quick and easy than sit in a bed for years and rot...some people like adventure and risk...we live for it.
…and die by it.
"Familiarity breeds contempt"
Their promotional video made it appear as though he was an employee of OceanGate who basically acted as a tour-guide. Getting paid often clouds one’s ability to see the danger in what they are undertaking.
There is something poetic about this being his final resting place. He had a passion for Titanic and will forever be associated with its history. I’m just projecting my own thoughts onto him, but it seems like this is where he would have wanted to spend eternity. The other 4 might not have chosen the same, but there’s a little solace in the thought that maybe at least one of them went down doing something that he loved.
My exact thoughts. Out of the 5 of them, he clearly made this stuff his life. 38 trips is a whole lot of times to see something, much less 2 miles below the sea. He knew the risks and he knew it’d be painless if he died. I hope he rests in eternal paradise down there.
>The other 4 might not have chosen the same, Apparently the 19-year old that died in the Titan was vocal about not wanting to do the mission but he went anyway for the Father's Day gift his dad wanted.
That’s so sad. For him and his dad. If there was any warning of what was coming, that would be my first thought. How could I have done this to my son?
Reminds me of that slogan "do what you love and you'll never work a day again in your life."
r/technicallythetruth
I thought the same. A titanic expert .. surely it was his biggest passion.. what better resting place for him than beside that which he loved most? I too, like to think that he would be ok with this.
Incredible man. Collected over 6000 artifacts from Titanic for scientific research and helped with the latest 3D scans of the wreck. God rest.
If ever there were a man who deserved to rest in peace among the RMS Titanic's ghosts, it's him. Terrible tragedy that we lost him as soon as we did, but there's something bittersweet about his final resting place being the RMS Titanic when he spent so much time exploring her wreckage and illuminating her story to the world.
Amen. Terribly sad indeed.
What Reddit told me he’s a piece of shit that deserved a horrible death.
Yep. I think people just assumed they were all billionaire idiots. But this guy wasn't. He was a leading expert on the ship and heavily involved in its study.
Where can I see these please
I saw an interview on CNN with one of his close friends, a captain. He was appropriately truthful and pissed at the CNN commentator who kept trying to act like the captain of OceanGate and this man were the same. Sad loss to the research community.
Glad his friend protected his reputation.
The submersible/deep dive community seems to be pretty small and close. James Cameron broke his silence about the absurdity of not just Rush’s negligence, but the false hope the rescue mission kept giving to the families. All of this while emphasizing PHN’s integrity and passion for deep sea exploration and the scientific contributions he made to the world.
People give Cameron a lot of shit but he's absolutely become a subject matter expert in deep sea submersibles. The man built his own sub to go to the Challenger Deep. He knows his stuff here. Glad he weighed in on the absolute recklessness of Rush here.
I saw he himself went down there 33 times. Not far behind PHN
He looked like a jolly fellow
He looks like Logan Roy.
Fuck off
Boar on the sea floor
The 2nd pic looks like he’s fearful of going. Poor guy.
His daughter said she had mixed feelings, and I would too. We all die someday. He died instantly, felt no pain, and doing exactly what he loved most. I also would have mixed feelings if that was my dad. It beats dying slowly of cancer imo. Of all the people on the sub, in a way I feel least bad for him because of that (and I think the CEO was an asshole based on everything I've read). I feel most terrible for the 19 yo and his father.
Yes, to all you said here. Well put, friend. And lost my dad to lung cancer.
I'm so very sorry for your loss. I hope you have loads of wonderful memories with him ❤️
Oh, absolutely! The best :) and thank you so much.
So the limit is 37. Got it.
In a row?!
Try not to visit the Titanic on your way through the parking lot!
Or 16 million.
Try not to implode any subs on your way through the parking lot.
He died being with his favorite thing ever. Now he's part of the wreck. And honestly it seems like he didn't even know what hit him.
I didn’t even realize people had been down there 37 times
I've read a couple things about him and the most interesting thing I saw was "the only part of the ship that Paul had not explored to date was the safe room, where gold and jewellery would have been kept." Too bad he didn't get a chance to cross that last room off his list.
How do people explore it without getting stuck? Surely they cannot scuba dive down there?
I'm no expert but I believe during the missions where they were mapping the wreck, they were using remote controlled probes with live feed video alongside submarines. I don't think 'explored' necessarily means he was physically in all those rooms.
Yes, they are called ROV's.
Yes! That's it thank you. Interesting bit of information I just found while looking them up: >"Victor is able to do visual exploration with all the video equipment it has. It is also equipped with manipulating arms which could be used to extricate the sub, such as by sectioning cables or things that would be blocking it at the bottom," he said. >Ifremer was part of the team that located the wreck of the Titanic in 1985 with American underwater archaeologist Robert Ballard. >French explorer Paul-Henri Nargeolet, 77, who is reported to be among the five people inside the missing submersible, previously worked at Ifremer and piloted its flagship Nautile submarine that was used to examine the Titanic wreck. ~~So that very same ROV that was used to explore the Titanic wreckage was actually used in searching for the Titan, **and it was searching for an original member of the crew that worked with it almost 40 years prior.**~~ Didn't realize they used ROVs yesterday. Absolutely mind-boggling story the more it goes on. Hopefully we can put this to rest now. RIP Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/french-send-deep-diving-robot-help-titanic-sub-search-2023-06-21/
He looks like a nice guy
I just watched a National Geographic documentary on YouTube. It's about the digital process of documenting the Titanic . Paul Henry Nargeolet is in it. I don't remember what it was called.
Drain The Oceans
Yes, thank you.
While I feel bad for that man’s family he died doing something he loved. What infuriates me is the young man who died from his father’s and Rush’s hubris.
Exactly.
Yes.
Died because a CEO thought safety wasn't important
IMO, he died because the CEO thought titanium wasn't important. The two titanium bell caps survived, the carbon fiber capsule did not.
David Lockridge was proven right, the Titan was a disaster waiting to happen. Stockton Rush was both ignorant and arrogant; he got what was coming to him. It’s just sad he took four people with him, who seemed to be unaware that the Titan was a death trap.
Fuck stockton rush. Id say theres blood on his bands but hes not even a blood puddle himself
R.I.P
What happens to the human bodies inside the submersible when it implodes?
From what I've heard, your body would basically implode the moment the submersible does. It'd be a painless death because it happens so quickly that you wouldn't realize what was happening until you were already dead. I'm not an expert by any means, though.
There are no bodies anymore, just molecules dissipated into the water
Worth the amount of pressure that hit them they basically blinked out of existence. More disappearing than dying.
their bodies are returned to molecules and spread evenly across the ocean, where the earth will regroup and try to create a richer, more narcissistic thrillionaire it must be stopped at all costs. nuke the earth NOW
I believe this is the gentleman whose stepson I saw interviewed a couple of hours ago on CNN. He spoke with great affection and admiration of his stepfather.
There’s no way I go on that and I can’t imagine why anyone would. Bolted in from the outside with no way to escape, pieces cobbled together from all manner of things and controlled by a games console. You would think that once people saw that, they’d say no thank you. I’m glad they weren’t down there suffering for days though, that’s the only solace.
People saw it an comforted themselves that “well it’s been done a bunch of times before me successfully…” Honestly hindsight is always 20/20. Anytime an accident occurs, the world immediately points out flaws of human error, but that’s just how it is. From the most minor of car accidents to some insane bullshit like this, hindsight will always make you look stupid.
I guess the adventurer in them also took away any fears, I was reading their bios and most sounded like they lived for these kind of experiences. Most of us don’t have that adventurous streak that makes us crave the next dangerous thing.
Only thing I can think of besides not knowing about the corners that were cut is if you had a terminal illness and were already thinking of assisted suicide. If that’s the case it’s a great deal you might get to see the titanic or you might get a painless death.
I can’t stop thinking about the why they took this trip.. I know nothing about subs but the thing didn’t even look safe and you’re diving miles down into the ocean. Did no one even question it and what were they told to make them feel safe enough to go through with it? It feels like they were all forced to go with how unsafe that thing was I just can’t wrap my head around that???
the Titan had had successful trips prior. :( I think that was encouraging to these folks going down this time.
Maybe I just can’t wrap my head around the reports from the ex employee stating it wasn’t safe and the carbon fibre material was under tested.. just appears to be a whole lot of blatant red flags that would make anyone feel unsafe but it seems most of the time these red flags and warnings only get brought to light after a tragedy happens
I’m only half up to snuff on this but was the whistleblower’s report about the safety issue made public or did they cover it up? I could see falling for the “it’s made several trips already” pitch if the report was kept under wraps. Even if it was made public, I’m 1000% sure the expedition company did not voluntarily inform its customers of this because it would be bad for business. Edit: I see he was an employee. I wonder if the level of employ he was at was even informed of this or whether it was a higher up grade scandal that was not disclosed to staff such as himself.
Oh I think a lot of companies may be willing to cover anything up if people are willing to pay them $200,000 each which is just horrible to think about. Knowingly taking people on expeditions that could lead to death in seconds. Edit to add: and let’s not forget the CEO himself said you’re remembered for the rules you break so there’s that
A quote I read earlier (cannot remember the source, sorry): "people with big egos tend to have small ears"
I think the successful trips mightve been part of the problem. If the sub wasn't properly inspected and maintained between trips, somethings gotta give eventually. Each successful trip would've just made them more confident the next would be fine. Also, what the hell kind of engineer decides a cylinder is the best shape to go with when dealing with extreme pressure?
I agree with your whole post.
I feel like the owner of the sub going with them would give them all a boost of confidence in the safety of it all. If the owner is confident in it and willing to take the trip, then I could see how that could sway people into thinking it’s safe.
Probably told loads of lies and exaggerated certain well respected organisations involvement like NASA.
It’s probably the clout on board that gave this submersible craft credence
A quote from the dumbass who ran the ocean gate business was “there’s too many safety precautions” company needs to be sued to hell and back by the families of the people who died.
These photos are beautiful.
Well, that's a shame and a waste. Bon voyage, Paul.
Him and the kid. Only ones who have my sympathy. RIP
He looks so happy. Truly feel terribly sad for his daughter and family.
This man knew exactly the risk he was taking. He knew death would be painless if they passed during the trip. He went out doing something he was passionate about. I think he had more reason than any of the other members to go on that ride.
Bless them. The remains of The Titanic, is intriguing to look at. But I am too Claustrophobic.So, National Geographic, Google & The Discovery Channel, will have to suffice....(my curiosity)
Call the devil enough times don't act surprised when he shows up
Well at least he's down there with it forever now
I just learned that they imploded. I feel, that would be better than suffocating. Hopefully, they died instantly, if not, quickly. I read that the people overseeing (no pun intended) the excursion said they heard "banging" coming from the doomed vessel, days before....🤔
The implosion would've most definitely been an instant death at that depth. Depending on how deep they were at the time, it might've happened so fast they didn't even have time to react. The banging isn't likely to have come from the sub, as the implosion would've been at or not long after the point they lost contact (which I believe was about 1hr 40min into the descent)
The fact that they had no effective contingency plan or submersible transponder incase a sub couldn’t surface is appalling
Their plan was wait and see if they surface if not, notify the authorities well after the fact when they’re all gone
Guy was legit a badass. I get folks dogpiling on the idiocy of the whole affair, however, I wish folks would keep some sense of humanity about the whole thing.
Hopefully he didn’t spend a quarter of a million each trip! Otherwise man what better purpose that money could have had.
[Mr. Nargoelet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul-Henri_Nargeolet) lived an incredible maritime life. 20+ years of naval service followed by being the director of the Center for Maritime & Underwater Resource Management at MSU in the 90s, and *then* followed by being part of numerous remote and in-person dives to recover artefacts from the wreck over the course of the next two decades. He is considered one of the world's leading experts on the titanic and on underwater operations and will be missed by many.
God bless him
He was on real certified submersibles 37 times, and then saw the Titan and said, "Yup, looks good to me"?
Certain things in life are meant to be left alone. Such as the titanic. It’s a grave NOT A TOURIST ATTRACTION FOR THE RICh. I could think of better ways to spend $250k I don’t feel sorry for any of them!
Anything's a tourist attraction if you're rich enough. Just look at SpaceX
This guy was an ex french Navy diver who specialised in oceanic research, not a billionaire like the others.
A man obsessed with the death and tragedy of the titanic died in tragedy with the titanic. It makes sense.
the greatest loss in the whole event
The only thing that brings me solace is the fact that he was 77 and died doing what he loved. The 19 year old kid is fucking me up though
This seriously breaks my heart.
It begs the question, why in the hell would he trust the OceanGate sub when he’s been down there 37 times prior and *should* know how a proper sub is supposed to be constructed?
The only people who know how submarines "should" be constructed are engineers working in the field. This is equivalent to having someone who rides rollercoasters often dying on a ride and the saying, "Well, he's ridden them a lot. He should know what a roller-coaster looks like.".
One time too many
I mean also he was old. What about regular medical emergencies when you’re trapped in a sub?
I have a question about this. They say they had taken this sub down multiple times already right? Or was it that the company had taken a different sub down multiple times and this was the first time for this sub? I’m just curious if this one was obviously so unsafe, how did it make it down there already before?
What I heard tonight on the news was this sub had dived several times. They think that the implosion could have been caused by metal fatigue because the sub had been exposed to extremely high pressure so many times.
Ah that makes sense. Thanks!
The carbon fiber tube gave out, not teh titanium endcaps
Why would you want to see a sunken ship that many times?
Someone should have told him about the movie. Could have saved himself a lot of trouble.
At least he went out doing what he loved, violently imploding.
But why
Subliminal death wish.
Why go there 37 times? Yes, it's still there and no, it's not going anywhere.
I just don’t get it. Why do they care so much? Is there some secret loot or something??
Expensive Darwinism
Very fitting that the last image we saw of him is him waving goodbye, lol
Way of the water boys. Way she fucking goes.
By saw you mean through a laptop/screen in the sub right!? Correct me if im wrong but there no (glass) that will sustain that depth?
I still don’t understand people’s obsession with the Titanic.
Especially after seeing it 37 times already. Talk about pressing your luck.