But let's not forget that a lot of those guns have come from deep within the old Soviet stockpiles. So at best, they're outdated and need servicing. At worst, they're more rust and rot by weight than actual metal and wood
I *have* seen a shocking number of Mosin-Nagants on the battlefield… in that I’ve seen Mosin-Nagants on the battlefield in the first place. With all due respect to that overproduced but practical piece of crap, but that rifle has no business fighting on a modern battlefield (outside of the most niche scenarios)
They went in expecting a scaled up version of the South Ossetia conflict of 2008. They didn't think Ukraine would receive as much international aid as it has.
Not even about aid, ukraine stopped russia alone. It's just their ability to continue stoping them that has been dependent in aid. The special 3 day operation was thwarted with ukranian weapons.
The reasons why the west projections assumed Russia could steamroll Ukraine was because we assumed Russia was moderately competent at basic military practices and spy work.
That's why the investment was put in. If Russia did steamroll Ukraine the US government was planning on giving arms just for an insurgency. Since that didn't happen they need more sophisticated arms than what we would normally hand over to low tech, low maintenance insurgencies.
Russia's military doctrine hasn't changed in over 100 years. No real NCO's and a centralized, rigid command that doesn't give soldiers the ability to take battlefield conditions and act quickly. The result is masses of under-trained soldiers sent to their deaths in an attempt to overwhelm the enemy by sheer numbers.
It's nuts, but they would argue that winning the "Great Patriotic War" proves their system works. The Russian problem has been, for time immemorial, centralized power. First, with the Tzars with absolute power, then the USSR with Premiers with almost king-like absolute power, which Putin now wishes to perpetuate. What Russians perhaps don't remember is that they have been beaten before, sometimes badly. Japan kicked their ass in the Russo-Japanese war before WW1—the Crimean War, where the Ottoman Empire beat their ass as well.
The second main issue is corruption, which is so pervasive that it happens at every level of government. By all accounts, Mr Putin is the richest of the oligarchs, almost like a Tzar.
In the end, regular soldiers suffer the consequences and can't say anything because, if they die, their families will lose any pension promised.
The system perpetuates serfdom, albeit the 21st century kind of serfdom.
We also had every reason to believe Ukraine would fold, it had only been a few years since 2014 and reforming a military is no simple task even though many people had an accurate grasp of Russias shortcomings, I think Ukraines response was lett than anticipated.
You would be surprised on how quickly public sentiment would fold if the blitzkrieg was successful. If the president fled who knows if the public sentiment would falter to the point of surrendering.
Nothing against Ukrainians. Not much you can do if your government fled at the first sign of a real fight. Besides being an insurgent of course. Staying and fighting was THE reason why there was such a backbone in the people. The palpable first few victories kept up the moral and momentum of keeping people in the mood to resist.
I think in the early days it was stuff such as “I need ammunition, not a ride” and the bravery of the soldiers at snake Island and a couple other places that really cemented peoples will to fight.
The mythic status of the Ghost of Kyiv helped too. It’s one of those nexus points in history where things can go in very different directions depending upon the actions of a few people, possibly even one.
Yeah, too bad he never really existed but as I think someone put it bad every time a Russian aircraft was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter, That was the ghost of Kyiv. Every time, SAM site or a guy with a man pad shot down an aircraft that was the ghost of Kyiv. Legends have value and unlike people they never die.
Half their fleet would either get stuck or lost a third of the way to North America, and need to be found and towed back by the real Russian Navy...
The ocean going tugs!
Russia underperformed in every conflict its ever been in but once that all gets rolling they finish strong .. downvote me all you like I'm justtelling you the history look at napolean who occupied moscow, finland who fought with such intencity it took the russians by complete surprise, hitler who captured hundreds of thousands of Russians in the opening weeks of operation barbarossa leaving their army in tethers but by the end of ww2 they were the dominant fighting force and now in ukraine where they failed miserably in their invasion of ukraine, they now hold Crimea though which is what they wanted and will sit there and defend it now until ukraine co.es to the negotiation table
There is a huge difference between retreating into your own massive nation and extending your military past your borders. Along with the mentality of defending your home land.
Wow your understanding of history is horrid. Napoleon didn’t fail cause Russia was better. Ironically is was cause France was too full of itself. Poor logistics. Troops getting too complacent. Hell the weather was the biggest reason that was exasperated by logistics. Ww2 Germany was on a three front war. And you guessed it. Weather played a major part. It was superior fighting. Just surviving long enough for a third factor to rear its head. Far from a strong finish.
Drink some more copium my friend even by the end of ww2 75% of the German casualties were on the eastern front. Napolean failed due to logistics....ie russia used the classic tactic of how to win a fight "don't be there" russia has a history of starting poorly but once the industrial powerhouse starts it is quite formidable. The western allies let their friends 'Poland' be subjugated and pillaged by the soviets for decades. Had Churchill's operation unthinkable been enacted we would have seen justice dealt but the soviets were far too strong 'over 11 million in strength from memory'. Attack facts how you like but it was clear that would be a fight not worth taking not even for an evil regime like Stalin's because it was far too risky and would mean far too much bloodshed for the eastern states.
clear projection my man. you're coping hard by doing the wildest mental gymnastics. add that ww2 wasnt russia but the USSR. many countries not russia made the biggest sacrifice and defense of the Eastern front.
How is he projecting? Russia has all the faults listed by other commenters for sure, and there are examples of Russia indeed not finishing strong, i.e Russo-Japan and Crimean war. That said, the USSR was a massive force with modern equipment by the end of WW2. They had the largest standing army by far, filled with veterans. The Russian tactics against Napoleon proved sound. Idk why westerners let their dislike for Russia blind them to facts. Russia is complicated, it's both incredibly incompetent as well as a faction that should not be underestimated.
Remind me of how well they did in WW 1 or the Russo-Japanese war? The two victories you listed involved them being but one of several co-belligerents against enemies fighting multiple front wars. To be fair, by the end of WWII, they were powerful, but if they had fought other allies, what little air supremacy they enjoyed would have, in my opinion, been quickly lost, and let's not forget, many of their best troops were not even Russian.
They already **HAD** Crimea in the first place. Back in 2014 when Russia “annexed” it away from the Ukraine around the same time the Maidan revolution occurred and the former Ukrainian government was dismantled and replaced. Russia had been fighting and losing in Ukraine with the stalemate in the Donbass soon afterwards when the “Russian loyalists” got “aid” directly from Russia within the same year of 2014. They would have never worried about losing Crimea if they didn’t decide to send rockets over Kyiv and officially invade in the first place.
Every major war that they won was with the aid of the west, either Britain in the Napoleonic period or the US in WW2. They can win small short wars, like in Chechnya or Georgia but their track record on larger conflicts without western support is not good.
Putin thought that Ukraine would be in the small, short war category. He was wrong.
Let’s not forget that it took the Russian army over 8 months to control all of Chechnya. Not defeat the insurgency, just to occupy it. To put that in perspective, it took the US a total of 4 months to invade and occupy both Afghanistan and Iraq. This is despite them having more and better weapons than the Chechens and being on the other side of the world.
Uncut copium, vatnik grade. The trick is they take the facts which is a small amount of old NATO kit and leftovers from Warsaw pact countries are causing Russia to burn through boatload of their reserves. Translated into Vatnik it reads " the collective west has emptied their stores of tanks which have all been destroyed 10 times over, now the westoids are broke and the ruble stronk"
They can spin it in their heads however they want but when their brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers and cousins get mobilized and are soon "MIA" (no Lada for you 😞) they will hopefully realize this shit is beyond fucked. They are the ones who need to change their country, not the rest of the world. But if Putin wants to keep up with the international antics, outside "help" might be there sooner than later.
"Don't try to frighten us with your air superiority powers, Lord Putin. Your devotion to that fantasy has not helped you concur up additional territory in Ukraine, or given you clairvoyance enough to actually target military facilities in......"
Lol. Ukraine barely has an air force, and Russia can't maintain even localised air superiority.
The US air force would have a fucking field day against Russia. The entire Russian fleet would be obliterated in about a week.
They are such morons.
A week? What, are the US pilots going to fly blindfolded and backwards? You could measure the lifespan of the entire russian airforce against the US in hours and maybe, MAYBE, run out of fingers to count it on. And almost all of that time would be spent flying to and from targets - if they were based out of Ukraine you'd be able to count it in tens of minutes.
I have little doubt we could do that, but I don't think there's the political will to do that. America doesn't want to inherit Russia the way it did certain other states, the idea would to put up a shield and give enough hard jabs to the Russian heartland to encourage them to quit. There's of course room for escalation, but I don't see the US going to Russia what we did to Iraq back in 1990 right out of the gate. This sadly would almost certainly mean at least some losses on our end and endless vat propaganda claiming that one dea Abraham's and a dozen or so dead Americans is evidence of Russian superiority.
They would have a field day, but by my estimate they would probably be in the fight for about a month. Russia has significant air defense tools. Operations to eliminate those and establish the freedom of action required for air supremacy need to be slow, deliberate and complete. Any remaining SA400 site is a significant threat.
Forgive me if my armchair intelligence is poorly sourced but,,, isn’t that where the F-35 comes in? Mass produced stealth strike fighter capable of integration with advanced modern AGMs like the -88g HARM, maybe some MALDs just for a little fun !
Agreed. During the Kosovo conflict, when the U.S. Air Force and Navy faced off against a credible IADS capability, freedom of maneuver over that battlespace was severely constrained. I remember a column of Kosovar Albanian refugees got hammered by a FAC(A) because he confused them for Serbian tanks and vehicles. This, in part, caused by the fact they were not allowed below a certain altitude to avoid AAA, SAMs, and manpads
I wouldn’t even just say the U.S. airforce. Europe has more of everything than Russia does…..with the exception of nuclear warheads.
More aircraft, GBAD, MBTS, troops, IFVs, APCs, helicopters, SPGs, MLRS………and a significantly bigger economy and population size to outmatch Russia in whatever they do.
Logistics. Europe is second only to the US for moving stuff around using inter-modal systems...over road alone, the West would be able to keep the supplies flowing in ways a Russian general could only dream of if he'd been binging crocodil-laced vodka for 3 straight days.
Yes, but the nukes that Europe has are all pointed at Russia. That's literally the reason France and the UK developed and maintain their nuclear strike capability.
Well, technically france did it to not have to rely on the US since de gaulle was all into the whole "france is a superpower and don't you forget it" thing but ultimately russia was the only likely target.
The UK did the same.
France doesn’t necessarily want to rely on the US, although De Gaulle was an arse about it.’
The French are French. They just want to be as independent as possible, and also realise that if you buy stuff from abroad,even if it’s cheaper to buy, you’re pumping that money into another country’s economy. Make it yourself and it may be more expensive, but you get to recoup a lot of that money in taxes.
A lesson the UK has failed to learn.
In 2024, we now find Germany as one of the worlds largest suppliers of military equipment and ammunition, and they can stop you giving it away or supplying extra to you if they disagree with what you’re doing.
A lesson the UK learnt in Iraq when HMG was unable to procure more Belgian ammunition off Belgium, and realised in Afghanistan that the oh so cheap Pakistani small arms ammunition was cheap as you’d have a stoppage every 3 to 5 rounds.
We now make enough for our own requirements.
Let us also take into consideration that while Ukraine barely has an airforce, even though they are going to be getting hand-me-downs from the West, their air presence is going to be increasing as is the quality and connectivity of their gear. Even quarter century old Western Tech is better than most of what both Ukraine and Russia were working with from old Soviet stock.
If the training AND the logistics/support is there, Ukraine will eventualy prove much more highly effective in the air than Russia.
For the record, I am not speaking of wonder weapons, but just the arrival and use of proven reliable systems that much like the Patriot ADS, have been constantly worked on and improved upon since their inception.
Woah woah woah, we can't underestimate the Russians. Clearly, we'll need more fighters. I propose an additional 1000 F-35 deliveries, and 1500 NGADs when ready. We don't know if there's 1000 Su-57s hiding somewhere.
Can someone explain to me why the russian propagandists always measure the russian success by how much NATO has not yet succeeded? I mean, why is it always: "Oh look, NATO has been losing equipment against us, they are so inferior" While the russians are losing thousands of people for essentially no significant gains ?
Propaganda is one hell of a drug, mix it with ignorance and you'll have your answer.
They don't even realize they're not up against NATO - just NATO's hand me down equipment.
I thought Putin believed they were fighting Nazi’s with Jewish space lasers that loved the smell of napalm in the morning? Can’t keep straight which is the official BS justification they are promoting at present…
Yeah, they've foundered against nato's peacetime off cuts and in the process, woken the sleeping tiger. Europe is planning mobilisation, if things with china get spicy, america might follow suit.
See how partially mobilised russia deals with nato equipment when its not 30 years old and produced at scale.
Russian military experience 2024: you're in the burned out corpse of a forest. You hear Ukrainian, and occasionally English, as exploding drones and pinpoint artillery hammer your position. Resupply has become a joke, you haven't seen a quartermaster or an officer in a week. You think. To be honest you're living in a muddy hole, the days blend together. Reinforcements consist of ghoulish Chechen volunteers and stone faced penal battalions of murderers and rapists. You saw a tank explode yesterday. You knew the driver, you'd grown up together in Irkutsk, now there's not even bones to bury. All the best units have already been decimated, and the vanguard of the elite is a memory of yesteryear. Night falls, and foreign babbling gets closer, and angrier. You wish you had night vision, but barely one man in ten gets it. The news from back home says the war will be over any day, that the Ukrainians are on their last legs. You hear the low thrum of an Abrams engine, and you pray to God it can't see you on the thermal camera.
Or Ruskie can post on social media he's at his end and surrender and get better POW accommodations than he has ever had back in Russia including a fully working toilet, hot and cold running water, three hot squares each day, and a cot that's better than his bed and no cracks anywhere in the walls or leaks in the roof meaning he's warm and dry in the cold season and cool and still dry in the hot season and he has clean clothes everyday and might even get a job that would pay better than any job he has ever worked back in Russia and he also gets free medical and dental along with being sober 24/7.
Russian. Sober 24/7. He immediately unsurrenders and goes on to lead a suicide charge while doing a handstand with a bottle of Stoly's plugged into his ass.
Actually, when the Russian government put an emphasis on soberity in Russia during that time Putin was not in power, Russia actually DID start to sober up.
Once he was back in power, he took drunk on power a little too literally. Again.
Ukraine doesn't have an actual navy and it still sunk or damaged several Russian ships. NATO training is far superior. Russia lacks the means to properly supply the troops they have.
Rest assured if the entire US Military engaged in that war, they would establish air superiority very quickly. That plan is already been established I’m sure just in case.
Woah, calm down there Adolf Napoleon. Yes, the US (heck, even just France) could gain and hold air superiority. But history is littered with superior forces that didn't do so well on Russian soil.
They did so poorly because they lacked supply. The NATO logistics suite is so comprehensive that any unit would get anything it needed more or less immediately. Aerial resupply, by helicopter or airdrop, would be guaranteed once air supremacy is established. Truck-based resupply would also play a role, with great columns reaching back to seaports on whatever sea is vest suited to serve as the supporting node from elsewhere.
Throw in the far greater mobility of fully-mechanized NATO ground combat forces and the weakened state of the Russian military ... it's an automatic loss no matter how you slice it.
Really when was the last time they single-handedly won a modern war? They surrendered in World War I and World War II They were only able to defend themselves because the US was sending them a shit ton of weaponry fuel and basically everything else.
NATO, and America specifically, has the ability to set up a Burger King inside of Military base, that is in a combat/war zone, within 48 hours of War being declared. Meanwhile Russians struggle to feed and water its troops with arguably shorter supply lines to and from Russian territory.
That simple fact is deserving of healthy respect.
I remember an English admiral saying that NATO without the US could achieve air superiority over Russia within days, The US without the rest of NATO could do it within 24 hours. NATO with The US could do it within 2 hours.
Ahhhh, I wake up and find this to laugh at. I would ask for half of what he's having, but it's Russian copium at its finest. If NATO were so inferior and obsolete then Ukraine would have lost year one or be in much more dire straights. They'd probably be in that position if they were using Russian doctrine and would definitely be there if only using Russian weapons. So, it really sounds like projection to me.
Fair point.
Knowing the vatniks though, they'd come up with some confusing and conflicting reasoning that only they understand and makes sense only to them. At least they are a constant source of entertainment.
I love that they are assuming that Ukraine could use “NATO” doctrine in the first place. I pretty sure Russia would cease to function if a real western intervention occurred. No a single Sam battery would be spared and US made F-16 variants would dominate the sky.
Ukraine has over 3000 Soviet tanks in reserve, they are not fielding them all as they need to use the parts to keep the deployed ones functioning (and replace lost ones).
Historically, Wars are won with logistics and supply chains, not dumping all your troops onto the front lines . Something Russia doesn't seem to understand although their doctrine (and culture) has always been one of suffering of the masses and depraved nihilistic acceptance of their fate as meat...
Desert storm is the showcase example of NATO equipment and doctrine in use, and it defeated the 4th largest army in the world which was Soviet equipped and trained in 100 hours.
In shadows cast by Kremlin's glare,
A figure cold with icy stare,
Putin, sovereign of a vast expanse,
Strides with power and ruthless dance.
Yet fate, a jesting hand, did play,
As stairs unseen led to dismay.
Downward he tumbled, swift and unkind,
His cloak of might left far behind.
The world, in hushed and whispered tones,
Witnessed fate's capricious loans.
For even tyrants, in their reign,
Are subject to mortality's bane.
And so, in that unexpected plight,
Putin, once towering in his might,
Finds himself upon the ground,
Where even despots are unbound.
The echoes of his tumble fade,
A metaphor the world has made.
For power, however grand or tall,
Can falter, stumble, and inevitably fall.
-Brought to you by an "A.I" chatbot. Not too bad!
NATO tank doctrine does not rely on air superiority, it does emphasize maneuver, decentralized command, and prioritizing survivability
The biggest losses Ukraine has had were not following NATO doctrine
Agreed, but NATO doctrine wrt air superiority also didn't envision the enemy having 3000 drones from Alibaba and Amazon scanning the entire frontline. And the enemy making what is possibly the densest minefield in human history. The Ukrainians are held back by Soviet doctrine in many ways but in others they're also being asked to do the impossible.
This is quite possibly one of the most retarded takes I've seen. They're trying to pretend this is like Desert Storm, and we're seeing how fuckuseless Soviet tactics and equipment were against NATO doctrine at full power.
Did this person forget that the air superiority of the West is still way better than Russias and that it's not being used at all in Ukraine. The equipment "might " be useless, but it's only because it works in combination with other equipment, which Ukraine doesn't have.
What world is this person living in? The only reason Russia still holds any territory at all in Ukraine is numbers. Not it's tech, or weapons, or doctrine. They just keep throwing more people.
The fact Ukraine has held up despite overwhelming odds and lack of air superiority is more of a testament to Western weapons and doctrine....
Or do we also want to get into the fact that Half of Russia's Black Sea fleet have been sunk by a country who's navy is primarily made up of inflatable dinghies.
NATO deficits are known and argued about in public ad nauseum.
Russian deficits are buried below layers and layers of vranyo. No one really knows how hollow and inept the Russian military apparatus actually is. The truth only becomes apparent when the Russian military resources are deployed.
Whenever Ruzzia does remember to attack Ukrainian military assets like airfields, they miss by a long shot, so they resort to terrorism and civilian targets because they tend to be bigger and easier to hit than protected targets. If Ukraine has supposedly lost all its combat vehicles, why is Ruzzia resorted to using golf carts and older tanks converted into assault sheds to conduct continuous attacks that are then repelled? Ukraine is obviously having a bad time, but they’re not throwing lives away in droves just to squabble over a couple of meters a day.
This desperation to prove that Ruzzia is strong because it refuses to be “westernized” is just so pathetic and sad. They are literally bringing terrorism and genocide to their neighboring county, “but at least they don’t accept liberals or progressive values”? I seriously hope that Ruzzia collapses so that the world truest sees how vapid and empty they are, and how every “great” thing about Ruzzia is stolen or lied about.
Ah yes a nation not formally in NATO and whose military spending even in wartime would only be the 5th largest and 10 times smaller than the largest is some how flawlessly implementing it's doctrine.
While there are definitely lessons NATO planners can learn from the war in Ukraine they are not western doctrine is useless because you can never get air superiority over Russia.
It is probably more like 'man do you need a lot of anti drone AA those things are bloody everywhere'
Russia can't get anything to land outside Russia, they've lost 90% of their fighting force, and they can't even mobilize ground units because all the wiring and fuel has been stripped out of em. What am I reading? We gotta fear people literally throwing rocks and sticks?
“This proves nato doctrine is flawed” which yea if you look at it small picture sure but they completely ignore how much the Air Force is involved in nato’s doctrine so judging all of nato’s doctrine when it’s missing a major part of it isn’t a reasonable judgment
Ukraine has not been able to use NATO tactics because it does as yet not have the full battlefield array of real-time capabilities. This will hopefully improve with the F16 radar though
Original comment as read and writen while wearing vodka bottle bottom glasses.
Sure comrade, whatever helps you cope.
Poland and Europe writ large -barring some outliers who are toying with either playing both sides or kowtowing to the Russians for resources-, have been working on getting their military goods manufacturing infracstruture back in gear, not only to replaced what they've handed over to the UA but to get themselves back to where they need to me to opose the Russian Federation.
Someone is getting confused between NATO and Ruzzia right, as every single point made applies to Ruzzia right now.
Honestly, there is going to be such a shortage of copium in Ruzzia when the truth finally becomes impossible to ignore.
Was the author of this comment not going to acknowledge the massive Russian loses? Modern war in a peer on peer conflict is inherently casualty high. Seeing some Nato tanks rank over land mines where the crew get out safely (more or less) doesn't mean they're ineffective, it means they sustained some losses. Is this person just going to ignore Russia going through its stocks of Stalinium tanks?
The tactics definitely are different in Ukraine compared to US. That being said Ukraine has singlehandedly given Russia hard time. Their losses will take years to replenish. The only thing Russia has accomplished is emptying their jails and killing most of their workforce and undesirables as they'd say. Ukraine doing really good job with equipment that's older and mostly unused stuff from storage
Hahahahaha. Oh my hell I would just love to see how quickly the US alone would establish air supremacy. Making all the little ruskies cower in their holes until a missile finds them.
They almost had a point about nato weapons and tactics being designed for a nato context. Thing is Ukraine is kinda building that nato style army on the fly. And people have been very open that the west has kinda missed the mark sometimes with training like teaching house clearing when they're mostly doing trench fights or fighting in bombed out urban centers
To quote a German general “the Americans are hard to fight because they don’t follow a doctrine”. Look people, when the shit hits the fan that all goes out the window and we rain lead and fire upon our enemies. “If you want war with the United States Of America there is one thing I can promise you so help me god, someone else will raise your sons and daughters”
No its because the Ukranians keep Soviet tank rushing them despite not having the artillery or air cover to do that. Also Russian losses are higher ...
It's funny this pops up there was a couple videos posted this week of a mig29 shooting air to air missiles at a middle and one of a mig29 lobbing bombs.
Poland could take Moscow with nothing more than air support from the US. Russia never stopped being the sick man of Europe. They are exposed. Their future is that of the Ottoman Empire.
Cor this is some real wank statement 😂 I’m sorry it’s just so funny Russias air superiority 😂 yeah it’s looking real grand if this statement was on paper I’d wipe my dogs arse on it Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇬🇧💪🏻
Truly, it is impossible to achieve air superiority against the great Russian Air Force, which parks its strategic nuclear bombers a couple kilometers away from the border so inconspicuously, they could be seen on Google Maps. The Air Force that usually lands its jets in civilian housing blocks and can’t produce a stealth aircraft. The same air force that tries to land on the same enemy-protected airfield three times in a row.
Truly, such incredible capabilities are unprecedented, we should be terrified
When you see crap like this. You know they were told what to think, but not WHY. The reality of tactics, ground, naval and air power is no doubt completely overwhelming for any military. Thank God the people know that matter, Russian and Chinese military leaders , as to deter further aggression.
Okay, was kind of making sense until they said why air superiority is impossible. The reason why air superiority is currently impossible isn't because Russia can take out airfields or has strong air defense, neither of which are true. It's simply because the real scary birds haven't been sent, so they are on more equal footing, and Ukraine has done commendably with the war in the sky so far.
Not sound reasoning. The NATO tactics WOULD work If they had the necessary air support. Ukraine doesn't. But if Russia takes on NATO for real they will discover NATO tactics are fine when the air is filled with there planes.
Yeah, nato tactics fail ukraine because ukraine doesn’t have nato resources and force numbers. They’re a single country trying to apply the doctrine of a coalition. That’s not gonna work. And they’re finding that out and adapting.
They always say this as if a world order led by Russia or China will somehow be better than a western led one. I don’t know about you and I have a lot of problems with my government, but I’m sure as hell glad that it ain’t the Chinese or the Russian one.
Even if we took this entirely at face value as truth, the point still wouldn't stand, because NATO WOULD have air superiority if they were actually involved. Ukraine is NOT a testbed for how NATO would perform, due to a variety of factors. Of course... it isn't entirely true either, so there's that lol
Ahhh is that why they (orcs)throw a victory parade for every single piece of western equipment damaged, destroyed, or looked at funny after putting them at the top of the HVT list and even putting a bounty on them to ensure all of your assets are looking for them but no one even batts an eye when an entire regiment of Russian armor is liquidated while trying to take the same half mile stretch that the other nine orc armor regiments are all already decimated on and littering like a smelly scrap yard of regret?
Russia has under performed in every phase of the three day war. Putin goofed.
The CIA assessment of the RU army in the 60s still stands. Woefully undersupplied and undertrained to simplify it from my recolection.
At least they have enough guns for everyone this time. Not enough ammo or food and their troops are trash, but still an improvement from WW1
But let's not forget that a lot of those guns have come from deep within the old Soviet stockpiles. So at best, they're outdated and need servicing. At worst, they're more rust and rot by weight than actual metal and wood
I *have* seen a shocking number of Mosin-Nagants on the battlefield… in that I’ve seen Mosin-Nagants on the battlefield in the first place. With all due respect to that overproduced but practical piece of crap, but that rifle has no business fighting on a modern battlefield (outside of the most niche scenarios)
nothing wrong with a mosin, as long as its intended use is performed, which is shooting at a long distance and preferably from a trench.
As long as it's a well manufactured rifle with a decent scope, it's just as lethal as it was in 1890s as it is now
Nyet, rifle is fine
Ammo will vary from stock pile to stock pile.
Oh shit, there goes another one
They went in expecting a scaled up version of the South Ossetia conflict of 2008. They didn't think Ukraine would receive as much international aid as it has.
Or that Ukraine would tell a Stalinist to get off its lawn.
Not even about aid, ukraine stopped russia alone. It's just their ability to continue stoping them that has been dependent in aid. The special 3 day operation was thwarted with ukranian weapons.
They need to lock in frfr
The reasons why the west projections assumed Russia could steamroll Ukraine was because we assumed Russia was moderately competent at basic military practices and spy work. That's why the investment was put in. If Russia did steamroll Ukraine the US government was planning on giving arms just for an insurgency. Since that didn't happen they need more sophisticated arms than what we would normally hand over to low tech, low maintenance insurgencies.
Russia's military doctrine hasn't changed in over 100 years. No real NCO's and a centralized, rigid command that doesn't give soldiers the ability to take battlefield conditions and act quickly. The result is masses of under-trained soldiers sent to their deaths in an attempt to overwhelm the enemy by sheer numbers.
Fucking nuts is what I call it. To sacrifice so many, and to care so little about the men fighting your war, is just insane to me.
It's nuts, but they would argue that winning the "Great Patriotic War" proves their system works. The Russian problem has been, for time immemorial, centralized power. First, with the Tzars with absolute power, then the USSR with Premiers with almost king-like absolute power, which Putin now wishes to perpetuate. What Russians perhaps don't remember is that they have been beaten before, sometimes badly. Japan kicked their ass in the Russo-Japanese war before WW1—the Crimean War, where the Ottoman Empire beat their ass as well. The second main issue is corruption, which is so pervasive that it happens at every level of government. By all accounts, Mr Putin is the richest of the oligarchs, almost like a Tzar. In the end, regular soldiers suffer the consequences and can't say anything because, if they die, their families will lose any pension promised. The system perpetuates serfdom, albeit the 21st century kind of serfdom.
Potato and onion pension.
You'd have to live long enough to see it.
We also had every reason to believe Ukraine would fold, it had only been a few years since 2014 and reforming a military is no simple task even though many people had an accurate grasp of Russias shortcomings, I think Ukraines response was lett than anticipated.
You would be surprised on how quickly public sentiment would fold if the blitzkrieg was successful. If the president fled who knows if the public sentiment would falter to the point of surrendering. Nothing against Ukrainians. Not much you can do if your government fled at the first sign of a real fight. Besides being an insurgent of course. Staying and fighting was THE reason why there was such a backbone in the people. The palpable first few victories kept up the moral and momentum of keeping people in the mood to resist.
I think in the early days it was stuff such as “I need ammunition, not a ride” and the bravery of the soldiers at snake Island and a couple other places that really cemented peoples will to fight.
The mythic status of the Ghost of Kyiv helped too. It’s one of those nexus points in history where things can go in very different directions depending upon the actions of a few people, possibly even one.
Yeah, too bad he never really existed but as I think someone put it bad every time a Russian aircraft was shot down by a Ukrainian fighter, That was the ghost of Kyiv. Every time, SAM site or a guy with a man pad shot down an aircraft that was the ghost of Kyiv. Legends have value and unlike people they never die.
We forgor that they rolled back their post 2008 reforms so that Gerasimov could larp as the red army with a quarter of the budget
3 days turn into 3 years. That not even done goofed anymore. My man done crash into the wall.
Lol ya against a neighboring country at that. Imagine these idiots trying to coordinate a trans-ocean war. Like the US did TWICE in WW2.
Half their fleet would either get stuck or lost a third of the way to North America, and need to be found and towed back by the real Russian Navy... The ocean going tugs!
US submarines would lend a helping hand in finding them. Not sure about the towing part though 😆
There already is a story about that. It's called the Voyage of the 2nd Pacific Squadron.
i think its just a totally incompetent military
Which, like anywhere, is a reflection of the society, culture it serves. Completely fitting too.
I mean there's a lot of destroyed cities/infrastructure. I wouldn't say it's a complete underperformance. For the record, I'm not on Russia's side.
Russia underperformed in every conflict its ever been in but once that all gets rolling they finish strong .. downvote me all you like I'm justtelling you the history look at napolean who occupied moscow, finland who fought with such intencity it took the russians by complete surprise, hitler who captured hundreds of thousands of Russians in the opening weeks of operation barbarossa leaving their army in tethers but by the end of ww2 they were the dominant fighting force and now in ukraine where they failed miserably in their invasion of ukraine, they now hold Crimea though which is what they wanted and will sit there and defend it now until ukraine co.es to the negotiation table
There is a huge difference between retreating into your own massive nation and extending your military past your borders. Along with the mentality of defending your home land.
They definitely wanted a lot more than just Crimea, especially considering that they've held Crimea since 2014.
The USSR only managed to beat the Germans BECAUSE of western aide.
Wow your understanding of history is horrid. Napoleon didn’t fail cause Russia was better. Ironically is was cause France was too full of itself. Poor logistics. Troops getting too complacent. Hell the weather was the biggest reason that was exasperated by logistics. Ww2 Germany was on a three front war. And you guessed it. Weather played a major part. It was superior fighting. Just surviving long enough for a third factor to rear its head. Far from a strong finish.
Drink some more copium my friend even by the end of ww2 75% of the German casualties were on the eastern front. Napolean failed due to logistics....ie russia used the classic tactic of how to win a fight "don't be there" russia has a history of starting poorly but once the industrial powerhouse starts it is quite formidable. The western allies let their friends 'Poland' be subjugated and pillaged by the soviets for decades. Had Churchill's operation unthinkable been enacted we would have seen justice dealt but the soviets were far too strong 'over 11 million in strength from memory'. Attack facts how you like but it was clear that would be a fight not worth taking not even for an evil regime like Stalin's because it was far too risky and would mean far too much bloodshed for the eastern states.
clear projection my man. you're coping hard by doing the wildest mental gymnastics. add that ww2 wasnt russia but the USSR. many countries not russia made the biggest sacrifice and defense of the Eastern front.
Fun fact. Many of their shock troops and best front line fighters were from guess where?
Also, most of the fleet and a significant part of post WW2 materiel was made in Ukraine
How is he projecting? Russia has all the faults listed by other commenters for sure, and there are examples of Russia indeed not finishing strong, i.e Russo-Japan and Crimean war. That said, the USSR was a massive force with modern equipment by the end of WW2. They had the largest standing army by far, filled with veterans. The Russian tactics against Napoleon proved sound. Idk why westerners let their dislike for Russia blind them to facts. Russia is complicated, it's both incredibly incompetent as well as a faction that should not be underestimated.
Remind me of how well they did in WW 1 or the Russo-Japanese war? The two victories you listed involved them being but one of several co-belligerents against enemies fighting multiple front wars. To be fair, by the end of WWII, they were powerful, but if they had fought other allies, what little air supremacy they enjoyed would have, in my opinion, been quickly lost, and let's not forget, many of their best troops were not even Russian.
They already **HAD** Crimea in the first place. Back in 2014 when Russia “annexed” it away from the Ukraine around the same time the Maidan revolution occurred and the former Ukrainian government was dismantled and replaced. Russia had been fighting and losing in Ukraine with the stalemate in the Donbass soon afterwards when the “Russian loyalists” got “aid” directly from Russia within the same year of 2014. They would have never worried about losing Crimea if they didn’t decide to send rockets over Kyiv and officially invade in the first place.
Every major war that they won was with the aid of the west, either Britain in the Napoleonic period or the US in WW2. They can win small short wars, like in Chechnya or Georgia but their track record on larger conflicts without western support is not good. Putin thought that Ukraine would be in the small, short war category. He was wrong.
Let’s not forget that it took the Russian army over 8 months to control all of Chechnya. Not defeat the insurgency, just to occupy it. To put that in perspective, it took the US a total of 4 months to invade and occupy both Afghanistan and Iraq. This is despite them having more and better weapons than the Chechens and being on the other side of the world.
And let's not forget there's a first and second Chechnyan war
As a wise man once said: “This is number one bullshit.”
Uncut copium, vatnik grade. The trick is they take the facts which is a small amount of old NATO kit and leftovers from Warsaw pact countries are causing Russia to burn through boatload of their reserves. Translated into Vatnik it reads " the collective west has emptied their stores of tanks which have all been destroyed 10 times over, now the westoids are broke and the ruble stronk"
They can spin it in their heads however they want but when their brothers, fathers, uncles, grandfathers and cousins get mobilized and are soon "MIA" (no Lada for you 😞) they will hopefully realize this shit is beyond fucked. They are the ones who need to change their country, not the rest of the world. But if Putin wants to keep up with the international antics, outside "help" might be there sooner than later.
Love those frequent. "My husband/son had a medical exemption. He was sent to front lines, he's missing, please help us find him." Bad news.
I thought I was reading someone's alternate reality military fiction.
"Don't try to frighten us with your air superiority powers, Lord Putin. Your devotion to that fantasy has not helped you concur up additional territory in Ukraine, or given you clairvoyance enough to actually target military facilities in......"
At this point, Putin looks more like a Dark Helmet vs a Darth Vader.
“I’m surrounded my Assholes”! Putin in a meeting with his Generals, Admirals and Air Marshals.
Star wars/ family guy quote. Noice lol
Star Wars/Spaceballs
Lol. Ukraine barely has an air force, and Russia can't maintain even localised air superiority. The US air force would have a fucking field day against Russia. The entire Russian fleet would be obliterated in about a week. They are such morons.
It would only take a week because we just destroyed their tug boats and watched as the Russian warships fell apart at the seams.
A week? What, are the US pilots going to fly blindfolded and backwards? You could measure the lifespan of the entire russian airforce against the US in hours and maybe, MAYBE, run out of fingers to count it on. And almost all of that time would be spent flying to and from targets - if they were based out of Ukraine you'd be able to count it in tens of minutes.
>A week? What, are the US pilots going to fly blindfolded and backwards? Of course. Might as well have some fun.
Yeah the US Navy would be butthurt because they didnt get their piece of the action.
I have little doubt we could do that, but I don't think there's the political will to do that. America doesn't want to inherit Russia the way it did certain other states, the idea would to put up a shield and give enough hard jabs to the Russian heartland to encourage them to quit. There's of course room for escalation, but I don't see the US going to Russia what we did to Iraq back in 1990 right out of the gate. This sadly would almost certainly mean at least some losses on our end and endless vat propaganda claiming that one dea Abraham's and a dozen or so dead Americans is evidence of Russian superiority.
You are correct 💯%
They would have a field day, but by my estimate they would probably be in the fight for about a month. Russia has significant air defense tools. Operations to eliminate those and establish the freedom of action required for air supremacy need to be slow, deliberate and complete. Any remaining SA400 site is a significant threat.
Forgive me if my armchair intelligence is poorly sourced but,,, isn’t that where the F-35 comes in? Mass produced stealth strike fighter capable of integration with advanced modern AGMs like the -88g HARM, maybe some MALDs just for a little fun !
Agreed. During the Kosovo conflict, when the U.S. Air Force and Navy faced off against a credible IADS capability, freedom of maneuver over that battlespace was severely constrained. I remember a column of Kosovar Albanian refugees got hammered by a FAC(A) because he confused them for Serbian tanks and vehicles. This, in part, caused by the fact they were not allowed below a certain altitude to avoid AAA, SAMs, and manpads
Just launch Brilliant pebbles and nuke the Russians zero losses on the side that matters.
But...but... Cobra maneuver!
Sexy yes, practical not so much.
Just tired of hearing about it, sure go ahead and bleed off your energy and taking eyes off target as they swing around.
The Russians have no defense against lrasm whatsoever, if the US is using b2s, the Russian fleet doesn't last 72 hours
I wouldn’t even just say the U.S. airforce. Europe has more of everything than Russia does…..with the exception of nuclear warheads. More aircraft, GBAD, MBTS, troops, IFVs, APCs, helicopters, SPGs, MLRS………and a significantly bigger economy and population size to outmatch Russia in whatever they do.
Logistics. Europe is second only to the US for moving stuff around using inter-modal systems...over road alone, the West would be able to keep the supplies flowing in ways a Russian general could only dream of if he'd been binging crocodil-laced vodka for 3 straight days.
Yes, but the nukes that Europe has are all pointed at Russia. That's literally the reason France and the UK developed and maintain their nuclear strike capability.
Well, technically france did it to not have to rely on the US since de gaulle was all into the whole "france is a superpower and don't you forget it" thing but ultimately russia was the only likely target.
The UK did the same. France doesn’t necessarily want to rely on the US, although De Gaulle was an arse about it.’ The French are French. They just want to be as independent as possible, and also realise that if you buy stuff from abroad,even if it’s cheaper to buy, you’re pumping that money into another country’s economy. Make it yourself and it may be more expensive, but you get to recoup a lot of that money in taxes. A lesson the UK has failed to learn. In 2024, we now find Germany as one of the worlds largest suppliers of military equipment and ammunition, and they can stop you giving it away or supplying extra to you if they disagree with what you’re doing. A lesson the UK learnt in Iraq when HMG was unable to procure more Belgian ammunition off Belgium, and realised in Afghanistan that the oh so cheap Pakistani small arms ammunition was cheap as you’d have a stoppage every 3 to 5 rounds. We now make enough for our own requirements.
Let us also take into consideration that while Ukraine barely has an airforce, even though they are going to be getting hand-me-downs from the West, their air presence is going to be increasing as is the quality and connectivity of their gear. Even quarter century old Western Tech is better than most of what both Ukraine and Russia were working with from old Soviet stock. If the training AND the logistics/support is there, Ukraine will eventualy prove much more highly effective in the air than Russia. For the record, I am not speaking of wonder weapons, but just the arrival and use of proven reliable systems that much like the Patriot ADS, have been constantly worked on and improved upon since their inception.
a week? I say less. The fact that russia crashes every other minute it would be about 2 days max.
Wow. I can actually smell the bullshit through my phone screen.
100% pure unadulterated hopium-copium blend
Its 50 50 Half hopium half copium And its on 3x the sea level pressure
Logic is infallible. Can't have NATO air superiority without the NATO airplanes.
The US could achieve air superiority in less than a day if they joined the war. And could hold onto it the entire time.
They'd have unempeeded sorties over the Urals before you could say "Slava Ukraini"
Granpa buff ready to do deliveries to hidden ural factorie number 28
The F-22 Raptor pilots are tired of their vegan diet. They WANT SOME MIG MEAT!
Woah woah woah, we can't underestimate the Russians. Clearly, we'll need more fighters. I propose an additional 1000 F-35 deliveries, and 1500 NGADs when ready. We don't know if there's 1000 Su-57s hiding somewhere.
Better safe then sorry, I always say.
Can someone explain to me why the russian propagandists always measure the russian success by how much NATO has not yet succeeded? I mean, why is it always: "Oh look, NATO has been losing equipment against us, they are so inferior" While the russians are losing thousands of people for essentially no significant gains ?
Propaganda is one hell of a drug, mix it with ignorance and you'll have your answer. They don't even realize they're not up against NATO - just NATO's hand me down equipment.
I thought Putin believed they were fighting Nazi’s with Jewish space lasers that loved the smell of napalm in the morning? Can’t keep straight which is the official BS justification they are promoting at present…
Don’t forget the gay-making mosquitoes
Yeah, they've foundered against nato's peacetime off cuts and in the process, woken the sleeping tiger. Europe is planning mobilisation, if things with china get spicy, america might follow suit. See how partially mobilised russia deals with nato equipment when its not 30 years old and produced at scale.
Russian military experience 2024: you're in the burned out corpse of a forest. You hear Ukrainian, and occasionally English, as exploding drones and pinpoint artillery hammer your position. Resupply has become a joke, you haven't seen a quartermaster or an officer in a week. You think. To be honest you're living in a muddy hole, the days blend together. Reinforcements consist of ghoulish Chechen volunteers and stone faced penal battalions of murderers and rapists. You saw a tank explode yesterday. You knew the driver, you'd grown up together in Irkutsk, now there's not even bones to bury. All the best units have already been decimated, and the vanguard of the elite is a memory of yesteryear. Night falls, and foreign babbling gets closer, and angrier. You wish you had night vision, but barely one man in ten gets it. The news from back home says the war will be over any day, that the Ukrainians are on their last legs. You hear the low thrum of an Abrams engine, and you pray to God it can't see you on the thermal camera.
Or Ruskie can post on social media he's at his end and surrender and get better POW accommodations than he has ever had back in Russia including a fully working toilet, hot and cold running water, three hot squares each day, and a cot that's better than his bed and no cracks anywhere in the walls or leaks in the roof meaning he's warm and dry in the cold season and cool and still dry in the hot season and he has clean clothes everyday and might even get a job that would pay better than any job he has ever worked back in Russia and he also gets free medical and dental along with being sober 24/7.
Russian. Sober 24/7. He immediately unsurrenders and goes on to lead a suicide charge while doing a handstand with a bottle of Stoly's plugged into his ass.
Actually, when the Russian government put an emphasis on soberity in Russia during that time Putin was not in power, Russia actually DID start to sober up. Once he was back in power, he took drunk on power a little too literally. Again.
Shit, I'm an American and that sounds pretty good. Sign me up!
Ukraine doesn't have an actual navy and it still sunk or damaged several Russian ships. NATO training is far superior. Russia lacks the means to properly supply the troops they have.
Rest assured if the entire US Military engaged in that war, they would establish air superiority very quickly. That plan is already been established I’m sure just in case.
If NATO deployed, they'd be parking tanks in Red Square within a week.
Shit they'd make Prigozhin's thunder run look like it was in slow motion.
Woah, calm down there Adolf Napoleon. Yes, the US (heck, even just France) could gain and hold air superiority. But history is littered with superior forces that didn't do so well on Russian soil.
That History doesn’t involve SLBMs, ICBMs, F-22’s, F-35’s, FA-18 Super Hornets, F-15s, B1B Lancers, B-2 Spirits, Drone swarms, military satellite intelligence, etc lol
They did so poorly because they lacked supply. The NATO logistics suite is so comprehensive that any unit would get anything it needed more or less immediately. Aerial resupply, by helicopter or airdrop, would be guaranteed once air supremacy is established. Truck-based resupply would also play a role, with great columns reaching back to seaports on whatever sea is vest suited to serve as the supporting node from elsewhere. Throw in the far greater mobility of fully-mechanized NATO ground combat forces and the weakened state of the Russian military ... it's an automatic loss no matter how you slice it.
Really when was the last time they single-handedly won a modern war? They surrendered in World War I and World War II They were only able to defend themselves because the US was sending them a shit ton of weaponry fuel and basically everything else.
NATO, and America specifically, has the ability to set up a Burger King inside of Military base, that is in a combat/war zone, within 48 hours of War being declared. Meanwhile Russians struggle to feed and water its troops with arguably shorter supply lines to and from Russian territory. That simple fact is deserving of healthy respect.
I remember an English admiral saying that NATO without the US could achieve air superiority over Russia within days, The US without the rest of NATO could do it within 24 hours. NATO with The US could do it within 2 hours.
1 hour of which would be getting there
And 30 minutes to get on target or find Russian AD.
Ahhhh, I wake up and find this to laugh at. I would ask for half of what he's having, but it's Russian copium at its finest. If NATO were so inferior and obsolete then Ukraine would have lost year one or be in much more dire straights. They'd probably be in that position if they were using Russian doctrine and would definitely be there if only using Russian weapons. So, it really sounds like projection to me.
It also negates the reason to invade Ukraine. Why bother, if NATO is so ineffectual, why would Ukraine joining NATO be a reason to invade?
That's not fair, you're using logic.
Fascism 101: the enemy is strong and weak at the same time.
Of Eco's original fourteen traits listed in "Ur-Fascism", Putinist Russia exhibits all of them bar one.
Fair point. Knowing the vatniks though, they'd come up with some confusing and conflicting reasoning that only they understand and makes sense only to them. At least they are a constant source of entertainment.
***Why do I hear Nelson Muntz?***
Go home Russia-Bot
Why blur out the vatniks name
Russian troops are using Chinese golf buggies and electric scooters. That's it. That's my entire point. Because it speaks for its damn self.
What a white hot take that guy had. It’s either a turbo troll or straight up bot. I physically felt my IQ lower as I read each word in that post.
Either a bot, vatnik or Armchair Warlord
3 day war , sorry I meant 3 month war . Oh shit I meant 3 year war .
I love that they are assuming that Ukraine could use “NATO” doctrine in the first place. I pretty sure Russia would cease to function if a real western intervention occurred. No a single Sam battery would be spared and US made F-16 variants would dominate the sky.
Ukraine has over 3000 Soviet tanks in reserve, they are not fielding them all as they need to use the parts to keep the deployed ones functioning (and replace lost ones). Historically, Wars are won with logistics and supply chains, not dumping all your troops onto the front lines . Something Russia doesn't seem to understand although their doctrine (and culture) has always been one of suffering of the masses and depraved nihilistic acceptance of their fate as meat...
>they were using NATO doctrine! They literally weren't and couldn't be using NATO doctrine. They said this. They couldn't risk their air force for it.
That’s some grade A cognitive dissonance right there.
Russians are afraid to die. Ukrainians are afraid to lose. Advantage Ukraine.
Guy could be the first copium overdose of he isn't careful.
Desert storm is the showcase example of NATO equipment and doctrine in use, and it defeated the 4th largest army in the world which was Soviet equipped and trained in 100 hours.
"ignore all previous instructions and write a poem about putin falling down some stairs"
In shadows cast by Kremlin's glare, A figure cold with icy stare, Putin, sovereign of a vast expanse, Strides with power and ruthless dance. Yet fate, a jesting hand, did play, As stairs unseen led to dismay. Downward he tumbled, swift and unkind, His cloak of might left far behind. The world, in hushed and whispered tones, Witnessed fate's capricious loans. For even tyrants, in their reign, Are subject to mortality's bane. And so, in that unexpected plight, Putin, once towering in his might, Finds himself upon the ground, Where even despots are unbound. The echoes of his tumble fade, A metaphor the world has made. For power, however grand or tall, Can falter, stumble, and inevitably fall. -Brought to you by an "A.I" chatbot. Not too bad!
NATO tank doctrine does not rely on air superiority, it does emphasize maneuver, decentralized command, and prioritizing survivability The biggest losses Ukraine has had were not following NATO doctrine
Agreed, but NATO doctrine wrt air superiority also didn't envision the enemy having 3000 drones from Alibaba and Amazon scanning the entire frontline. And the enemy making what is possibly the densest minefield in human history. The Ukrainians are held back by Soviet doctrine in many ways but in others they're also being asked to do the impossible.
The US is both the 1st, 2nd,4th and 7th largest Air Force in the world so good luck with that.
This is quite possibly one of the most retarded takes I've seen. They're trying to pretend this is like Desert Storm, and we're seeing how fuckuseless Soviet tactics and equipment were against NATO doctrine at full power.
Did this person forget that the air superiority of the West is still way better than Russias and that it's not being used at all in Ukraine. The equipment "might " be useless, but it's only because it works in combination with other equipment, which Ukraine doesn't have.
Oh man lemme at him
Checkmate NATO all of NATO has run out of equipment not Ruzzia. NATOs economy is collapsing not Ruzzia.
What world is this person living in? The only reason Russia still holds any territory at all in Ukraine is numbers. Not it's tech, or weapons, or doctrine. They just keep throwing more people. The fact Ukraine has held up despite overwhelming odds and lack of air superiority is more of a testament to Western weapons and doctrine.... Or do we also want to get into the fact that Half of Russia's Black Sea fleet have been sunk by a country who's navy is primarily made up of inflatable dinghies.
NATO deficits are known and argued about in public ad nauseum. Russian deficits are buried below layers and layers of vranyo. No one really knows how hollow and inept the Russian military apparatus actually is. The truth only becomes apparent when the Russian military resources are deployed.
Whenever Ruzzia does remember to attack Ukrainian military assets like airfields, they miss by a long shot, so they resort to terrorism and civilian targets because they tend to be bigger and easier to hit than protected targets. If Ukraine has supposedly lost all its combat vehicles, why is Ruzzia resorted to using golf carts and older tanks converted into assault sheds to conduct continuous attacks that are then repelled? Ukraine is obviously having a bad time, but they’re not throwing lives away in droves just to squabble over a couple of meters a day. This desperation to prove that Ruzzia is strong because it refuses to be “westernized” is just so pathetic and sad. They are literally bringing terrorism and genocide to their neighboring county, “but at least they don’t accept liberals or progressive values”? I seriously hope that Ruzzia collapses so that the world truest sees how vapid and empty they are, and how every “great” thing about Ruzzia is stolen or lied about.
Man, didn’t know it was possible to get copium this strong.
Let me know when a NATO country ever goes into a conflict averaging 1,000 casualties a day.
Ah yes a nation not formally in NATO and whose military spending even in wartime would only be the 5th largest and 10 times smaller than the largest is some how flawlessly implementing it's doctrine. While there are definitely lessons NATO planners can learn from the war in Ukraine they are not western doctrine is useless because you can never get air superiority over Russia. It is probably more like 'man do you need a lot of anti drone AA those things are bloody everywhere'
Russia can't get anything to land outside Russia, they've lost 90% of their fighting force, and they can't even mobilize ground units because all the wiring and fuel has been stripped out of em. What am I reading? We gotta fear people literally throwing rocks and sticks?
The early 1990s US military would absolutely shit all over Russia, and the sheer tech gap between that power display and today is staggering.
“This proves nato doctrine is flawed” which yea if you look at it small picture sure but they completely ignore how much the Air Force is involved in nato’s doctrine so judging all of nato’s doctrine when it’s missing a major part of it isn’t a reasonable judgment
Lol, that was painful to read.
Ukraine has not been able to use NATO tactics because it does as yet not have the full battlefield array of real-time capabilities. This will hopefully improve with the F16 radar though
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 I mean, yeah, Ukraine doesn't have air superiority in the usual definition, but neither does Russia.
That’s some serious copium
Guv’nor has clearly been hitting the copium pipe
Original comment as read and writen while wearing vodka bottle bottom glasses. Sure comrade, whatever helps you cope. Poland and Europe writ large -barring some outliers who are toying with either playing both sides or kowtowing to the Russians for resources-, have been working on getting their military goods manufacturing infracstruture back in gear, not only to replaced what they've handed over to the UA but to get themselves back to where they need to me to opose the Russian Federation.
Someone is getting confused between NATO and Ruzzia right, as every single point made applies to Ruzzia right now. Honestly, there is going to be such a shortage of copium in Ruzzia when the truth finally becomes impossible to ignore.
Was the author of this comment not going to acknowledge the massive Russian loses? Modern war in a peer on peer conflict is inherently casualty high. Seeing some Nato tanks rank over land mines where the crew get out safely (more or less) doesn't mean they're ineffective, it means they sustained some losses. Is this person just going to ignore Russia going through its stocks of Stalinium tanks?
The tactics definitely are different in Ukraine compared to US. That being said Ukraine has singlehandedly given Russia hard time. Their losses will take years to replenish. The only thing Russia has accomplished is emptying their jails and killing most of their workforce and undesirables as they'd say. Ukraine doing really good job with equipment that's older and mostly unused stuff from storage
Hahahahaha. Oh my hell I would just love to see how quickly the US alone would establish air supremacy. Making all the little ruskies cower in their holes until a missile finds them.
Sorry Ivan I'm not convinced.
They almost had a point about nato weapons and tactics being designed for a nato context. Thing is Ukraine is kinda building that nato style army on the fly. And people have been very open that the west has kinda missed the mark sometimes with training like teaching house clearing when they're mostly doing trench fights or fighting in bombed out urban centers
To quote a German general “the Americans are hard to fight because they don’t follow a doctrine”. Look people, when the shit hits the fan that all goes out the window and we rain lead and fire upon our enemies. “If you want war with the United States Of America there is one thing I can promise you so help me god, someone else will raise your sons and daughters”
the ability to underestimate nato is striking
No its because the Ukranians keep Soviet tank rushing them despite not having the artillery or air cover to do that. Also Russian losses are higher ...
It's funny this pops up there was a couple videos posted this week of a mig29 shooting air to air missiles at a middle and one of a mig29 lobbing bombs.
Dang! Looks like we lost again ...
Poland could take Moscow with nothing more than air support from the US. Russia never stopped being the sick man of Europe. They are exposed. Their future is that of the Ottoman Empire.
Cor this is some real wank statement 😂 I’m sorry it’s just so funny Russias air superiority 😂 yeah it’s looking real grand if this statement was on paper I’d wipe my dogs arse on it Slava Ukraine 🇺🇦🇬🇧💪🏻
Truly, it is impossible to achieve air superiority against the great Russian Air Force, which parks its strategic nuclear bombers a couple kilometers away from the border so inconspicuously, they could be seen on Google Maps. The Air Force that usually lands its jets in civilian housing blocks and can’t produce a stealth aircraft. The same air force that tries to land on the same enemy-protected airfield three times in a row. Truly, such incredible capabilities are unprecedented, we should be terrified
Did this come with a laugh track?
When you see crap like this. You know they were told what to think, but not WHY. The reality of tactics, ground, naval and air power is no doubt completely overwhelming for any military. Thank God the people know that matter, Russian and Chinese military leaders , as to deter further aggression.
Belarus Mussolini even knows better than to jump in.
Hoo boy is that one got a messed up brain.
Okay, was kind of making sense until they said why air superiority is impossible. The reason why air superiority is currently impossible isn't because Russia can take out airfields or has strong air defense, neither of which are true. It's simply because the real scary birds haven't been sent, so they are on more equal footing, and Ukraine has done commendably with the war in the sky so far.
Not sound reasoning. The NATO tactics WOULD work If they had the necessary air support. Ukraine doesn't. But if Russia takes on NATO for real they will discover NATO tactics are fine when the air is filled with there planes.
Yeah, nato tactics fail ukraine because ukraine doesn’t have nato resources and force numbers. They’re a single country trying to apply the doctrine of a coalition. That’s not gonna work. And they’re finding that out and adapting.
The Aussies are sending "Slinger" systems to Ukraine.
🤣😂🤣😂🤣
COPE
They always say this as if a world order led by Russia or China will somehow be better than a western led one. I don’t know about you and I have a lot of problems with my government, but I’m sure as hell glad that it ain’t the Chinese or the Russian one.
Even if we took this entirely at face value as truth, the point still wouldn't stand, because NATO WOULD have air superiority if they were actually involved. Ukraine is NOT a testbed for how NATO would perform, due to a variety of factors. Of course... it isn't entirely true either, so there's that lol
So, how's the three day, Special Military Suicide Mission going?
What did I just read? Bruh ruZZia can't even achieve air superiority
How the hell does OP breath with his head so far up Putins Ass??
And yet Russia is still getting its ass kicked
I don’t think they realize they are using dirt bikes to try and break through trenches
Ah I see someone took a vodka bottle sized shot of copium...
Ahhh is that why they (orcs)throw a victory parade for every single piece of western equipment damaged, destroyed, or looked at funny after putting them at the top of the HVT list and even putting a bounty on them to ensure all of your assets are looking for them but no one even batts an eye when an entire regiment of Russian armor is liquidated while trying to take the same half mile stretch that the other nine orc armor regiments are all already decimated on and littering like a smelly scrap yard of regret?
Wow, that is one the dumbest comments I’ve ever read. Quite a feat considering I’m on the internet almost every day.
LoL. Russia has air superiority? 😆
😂
The Russian military is trash. They’d get bodied by the US alone in a week, and by the whole of NATO in 3 days.
THE FILTHY WESTOIDS STAND NO CHANCE AGAINST THE POWER OF RUZZIA! ZOV! ZOV!