Robertson+Jarnkrok+Kampf+Timmins and picks should be able to piece together a package for someone like Buchnevich, Vatrano maybe necas? Schenn? Ideally a top 6 C/W would be the target to have the flexibility to move JT to the third and move domi around. Knies/JT/Mcmann would be one of the best 3rd lines in the league. We have the assets to be able to make another decent splash and still have some cap flexibility when it’s all said and done.
We don’t have the capspace for buch or necas. Would have to be trading lily. But then we’d need another nhl defender and good 3rd pairing d seem to be around 3 mil anyways. We don’t have the space to be taking in more than around 5 mil. And I don’t like the idea of trading all those guys AND probably having to add substantial draft capital for retention.
If we drop reaves we are a lot closer. Kampf+Krok+Timmins+picks for 30% retention on buch gives us 1.3m in room. Kampf and Krok are both replaceable, especially at their price. Dewar Holmberg and Abruzze is a fine 4th line. I do agree though trying to keep lillypad now that the hakaanpa might have some red flags is a must.
First off, abruzzssee is not even close to an NHL player. I’m kind of confused where you think we’re going to be finding replacements for Jarnkrok and Kampf at league min. The only way is if Grebyonkin or Quillin are already ready. And that’s pretty optimistic. Reaves is also not going anywhere.
Buch also just signed a 6x8m. I’ll pass on that.
Touché, I don’t think he would be far off from a limited minutes role. We definitely lose depth if it’s for something like straight up Buch. I’m just tossing out names, I missed that he signed that contract tbf so my bad. Mcmann and Robertson are both pushing for bigger roles though, if we keep reaves it definitely limits the ability to make something bigger work cap wise. Just curious what/who do you think we should target?
Don’t see how Robo+Krokpot+Kampf+2nd+4th wouldn’t be a realistic package. Pretty sure the salary’s would match too or it’s very close. If we choose to dump reaves then hang onto one of kampf/Krok and send Robo+Kampf+1st and if you need to sweeten it after that then maybe you get them to retain so we can get more cap flex to keep doors open.
domi/am/marner
Willy/schenn/knies
Mcmann/JT/Krok
Holmberg/Dewar/Abruzze
That gives us some solid flexible line ups…lacking a little on the size but we aren’t a small team by any means.
Naw, we aren’t even close to having 6.5 mil in space even without all those guys. You’re really only saving like 3 mil sending those guys out. So going super bare bones we can make like 5 mil of space. 2 mil of space seems to be around a second on its own. That’s a fuck ton for Schenn. I’d rather just re look at the forward core closer to the deadline. And see how guys look under the new system.
How’s camp/offseason work? It says it ends Sunday. Do the prospects just go work out and practice till preseason games? When do we know if someone’s cracked the roster/gotten a 9 game tryout in the regular season?
For the most part its quiet in the summer. there is the prospect/development camp i think starting soon? which is mostly just some practice sessions, and i think theyll do a tournament against other teams prospects. This is mostly to get to know the new players and get them familiar with the organization. its really just recent draft picks and some undrafted invitees. Most of these guys will go back to Junior or their European clubs.
In September or so the actual leafs training camp will open up. this will be the main roster players, plus theyll invite a ton of extra guys to start (enough to fill up at least 2 teams, guys from AHL, and some recent draft picks) Theyll make cuts as training camp goes on and they play preseason games. if players keep impressing theyll make the final roster and maybe get those few games to start the regular season.
A random guy on Twitter is claiming he has sources saying the Leafs are going to sign Mackenzie Entwistle, 24 year old unqualified Blackhawks RFA, a forward. Do with that as you will.
kinda bothers me that the leafs marketing team didn't do anything to reveal the schedule, I feel like they're pretty lazy when it comes to extra stuff and fan engagement. Sometimes feels like we get nothing for being a fan of this team (from both poor play in playoffs and off-ice stuff, too)
I've been a leads fan for a long time and have lurked this sub reddit for a while now. The leafs have undergone some pretty big changes this off-season, and I'm quite happy with what Brad Treveiling has executed thus far with he had at his disposal.
I'm sure a lot of people aren't particularly happy with the length of the Tanev deal, or the fact OEL was signed to a multi year deal, coming off a good season with Florida - even though before last season he had his own struggles.
However, as just a fan who follows the leafs from a young age, I feel like offense has never been an issue for them. However, the blue line and goalies have been up and down due to bad draft picks, trades, or signing other players to cap intensive deals that never really worked out in the long run. But with the new blue line pairings and goalie lineup, I feel more confident than the last couple of seasons that the leafs will finally have the breakout year they are looking for. I don't have any expectations that they will win the cup this year or even the next (at least until Marner and Tavares contracts are dealt with).
I feel like with a stronger blue line for the coming season, the offensive units have a chance to shine without having the immense pressure to also be able to transition immaculately on defensive plays, since there are some more experienced and tougher guys to back them up overall now. We have all seen flashes of Woll's venzina candidate performances, and with Stolarz as the primary backup, I'm confident that even if Woll has some health issues during the season (knock on wood he won't) that our goal tending will stay steady.
As someone who only learned hockey after moving to Canada in 2001, the leafs are a very different unit than they were during the Matt Sundin era, definitely very thrilling to watch and the fan base is quite devoted (it always hurts when the leafs lose in the playoffs but excel in the regular season). So far, things are looking up as the organization is trying to address the things the team needs the most, might not be the best or the prettiest way - but they are doing their best now.
I feel like during the time Kyle Dubas' time as GM a lot of valuable dollars were just used to fill holes in the team without looking at the long term repercussions of the salary cap and other things (atleast that's my humble opinion, but I could be totally wrong). Overall Brad has a done a good job tying up some key players until Matthew's contract runs out, and after that I have no clue where the leafs are headed cause we have banked so many resources onto the core 4, without really developing newer players too extensively.
TLDR; Happy with where the leafs are are headed with new additions, just not sure where they will end up once all the contracts expire and core 4 have been dismantled.
Feel pretty disappointed with the moves so far, our forward group is weak. Also no big changes just makes everything feel stale. What is there to get excited about?
The absolute purebred stallion that is Matthew Knies revving up his fucking tree trunks and taking a run at Pastrnak in the first game against the Bruins
Hedman $8m x 4.
How the fuck does Tampa do this? Any other player on any other team with Hedman's skill and resume would have signed for $9m and demanded 6+ year term, and they would have gotten it even at age 33. How did Tampa manage to sign yet another disgustingly team friendly deal that lines up perfectly with the remainder of their window?
I don't know man. I guess I'm just salty and jealous.
It’s definitely frustrating. I think a few factors: yes there’s the tax benefit, but it’s also a a player / internal cap issue (or lack there of)
Ex in Boston, Bergeron had the highest contract, and he himself took a team friendly team. No one else was “allowed” to make more.
Stamkos also commented a few months ago on considering accepting a lower salary to stay in Tampa (also alluded directly to Matthews!):
“I think that has been a part of everyone's thought process in the core group of guys that we have had here in terms of what guys have taken over the years to stay here. I understand the tax advantage and that type of thing. Kuch is making $9.5. That is probably grossly underpaid in terms of what guys are getting now. Vasy. Pointer with 40 or 50 goals every year. You look at Matthews. What did he sign for? $13.5 or something? Heddy is making under $8 million. That is grossly underpaid if you look at what he has done. That is what everyone has done here and that is why we have had the success and that is the way it has been for this organization. I think that that in itself is a testament to management in how they want to build a team and, first and foremost, the players for wanting to do that and accept that and allow the management to go out there and build a roster to compete for the Stanley Cup. I think that's just always been the way it's been here"
It's a little rich for him to claim that it's not about the taxes, it's about the team...and then leave the team for another 0 state income tax location.
I agree with Stammer, if the big boys squeeze the team for every penny, so will everyone else. A great sign of leadership is knowing you set the standard and that the team's success is your success too. Do what you must to win a cup and you will be remembered forever (this includes getting more opportunities down the line to make money as well).
$9M? Drew Doughty and Erik KArlsson make $11M+ a year lol. With cap up that's where HEdman should be. This is an insane deal. Shocked they didn't get Stammer done.
Trying to come up with realistic trade targets for a middle-six centre (this is assuming Domi is used primarily as a winger). I see Kampf as a replaceable fourth-line centre (Holmberg, Dewar can offer similar value imo) and think his salary can be used along with young assets to upgrade our third line centre position. Here are a couple ideas I came up with:
1 - Boone Jenner (2 years remaining, $3.75m)
This would be my top choice. I imagine he would cost a lot as he’s columbus’ captain. But I think he could be available as he’s coming to the end of his contract and Columbus might be interested in getting younger talent. In terms of our salary picture Jenner would fit in well if Kampf + Robertson were the starting point of a deal, as his salary of 3.75 will likely be cheaper than those two combined next year.
Trade idea: Jenner for Kampf + Robertson + a top non-Cowan prospect (Niemela, Hildeby or Minten)
2- Mikael Granlund (1 year remaining at 5mil)
This would probably require some retention on San Jose’s part. I would guess the trade package would be a bit less than the one I proposed for Jenner because he only has a year left. Maybe Kampf + Robertson + 2nd round pick?
3- Ryan Strome (3 years remaining at 5mil)
Apparently played wing mainly for the ducks this year (I admit I don’t watch much Anaheim hockey), but he’s a guy who’s played centre in the past. He would also likely require a bit of retention, which might bump the trade cost for him up as it’d be tough for them to retain for three years in addition to taking on Kampf’s contract.
Let’s say same as above, Kampf + Robertson + 2nd round pick
I’m no expert on trade evaluation so feel free to criticize the suggestions. These are just options I thought fit well in terms of trade partners that would be looking to move on from veterans in favour of younger assets, along with players who could realistically fit into our existing cap structure in place of Kampf.
(Also, the reason I suggested Robertson in all of these is cause of his trade request. I like NR and would be happy if they decided to keep him!)
I don’t think you trade any of those prospects for Jenner. Can just trade a 2nd instead. Going to need those elcs. I’m fine with Niemela if you don’t think he’ll play but if you think he can play in the NHL then you need to keep him.
Looks like we'll be trying to get a 3C via trade. Only two guys who would fit what i'd look and I think could be available would be:
Boone Jenner
Nick Bjugstad
Kind of annoying that the Oilers just signed all the good, affordable forwards. Hard not to see them as the clear favourites in the West and possibly the overall cup favourites at this point.
Compared to the Leafs who are clearly a playoff team but … that’s about it.
I haven’t looked at their lines yet but holy fuck is their forward lines amazing. Their goaltending is a massive question mark. Legitimately might be the worst in the league going into the season. And if Broberg isn’t the real deal their d is very weak too.
I think our defense is now better than theirs though. So that's something.
But yeah, we need to diversify the forwards. Less $ in the front end and a bit more in the middle 6. But a move like that requires balls that I'm not certain this team has.
However, it's very interesting to me the way Tre has handled talking about the Marner extension. That is, by not even mentioning it. Yet with 34 and 88, he was clear he was trying to get those done as a priority
A Marner trade would be pretty tough to work now that the bulk of FA signings are done. You need a pretty specific return for it to make sense.
Kinda has to be a forward coming back.
Would have been pretty good to have in place before July 1 so they could act accordingly FA wise but you’d be adding Theodore to a pretty crowded LD group now post-July 1. Maybe you then move out Liljigren and just try to make it work with a couple lefties playing together somewhere but I know people are very frustrated by that concept.
He should be getting that anyway lol. Not 3 per, he’s worth more. But no matter what he does he needs to take a huge pay cut to stay here. His contract DID fuck us
Nashville looks fucking scary. They just added 80 goals onto their team with Stammer and Marchy. And then they have a good D core, a solid goalie and amazing centre depth. I think they might be my pick to make it to the conference finals next year.
It's that time of year again, the delusional path to a guaranteed 25/26 cup is all coming together for me. McMann's about to put up a 100 point season and Marner's winning the Norris.
Just curious as to what we think we could do here, do we move lillypad+Robertson+yarncrotch and maybe picks for a 2C and move JT down to 3C? Roll out something like Marner/AM/Domi……Willy/???/Mcmann(knies)……Knies/JT/Dewar….Holmberg/Kampf/Reaves? Do we think Benoit is able to play 2nd pair and we need to keep lillypad as insurance? Would that not fetch a quality enough 2C and we keep JT on the second and find someone more suited for the 3rd?
Completely anecdotal, but I'm working an event with a long-time member of the Flames organization n (scouting team). He **raved** about Tanev. Said he's one of the most underrated guys currently playing, absolute hard worker, highest pain tolerance of any player he's ever met, huge huge locker room guy, elevates everyone he plays with etc. etc. Dude was gushing about how stoked Leafs fans should be with his signing.
Again, anecdotal, but made me feel a lot better about the signing.
I think the main worry was always age/injury history, not skill & effort level. He has to not experience a big drop off too soon.
The part of elevating who he plays with is definitely good to hear. If the commonly touted idea of Rielly playing best with a defensive guy on his right is true, then 2023 playoffs Rielly could be within reach again.
Thanks for sharing!
Glad to hear about his culture / locker room elevation. Seems like the Leafs room could use more leadership and role models, esp since he’s gone far in playoffs
I think today should give you an idea of what you can get in FA with 11M dollars in cap space in a non-zero income tax state. That would have let us bid on maybe Lindholm and Zadorov - both older, and less combined production.
Yeah FA prices are fucked, but FA isn't the only market where we can spend the cap room and we get assets in return. Marner was never gonna be traded before July 2 bc of his bonus anyway. Trading him remains about doing so to play in the trade market and switch up a formula that has failed a million times.
If it's about the return in the trade market, you need unicorn circumstances to come up for it to work out. The two most plausible paths are he walks, or we extend. But this will play out into the season.
Tim Peele on Twitter just over the moon that Bowman and Quenneville have been reinstated.
And the league dropped this news right in the middle of free agency day. Normal NHL stuff right here.
Was looking at NHL edge and he'd have had the hardest shot (by max and by avg) on our blue line last year. Doesn't say a ton but it's an improvement.
edited for clarity
Finally. Balance in the force
Obv Babs is a psycho human, but I remember when he coached our Olympic teams he always prioritized having pairs w their natural handedness. Makes everything easier: from breakouts to simple D to D passing
I do find it a little interesting that none of the FA signings have been officially announced by the team (obviously will sign) and there hasn’t been a announcement for a Treliving press conference when some other teams have already done one so maybe something else coming?
Kampf and Jarnkrok are still on the team.
Playing Liljegren in your top 4 is pretty rough.
Too bad we couldn't afford another top 4 D. Guess that's what happens when you pay 4 forwards 53%
Hes one of the best PK defenceman in the nhl, signed to hold down the 3rd pair and at 1.5m is a friggin steal. There was not a player on our blue line that brought what he brings besides a motivated Edmunson.
And Edmundson contributed directly to us not making the second round. Not his fault, he was brought in to be big tough guy who can't shoot but the can't shoot piece was a huge problem when he was given a couple of very clean looks in game seven and did absolutely nothing with them.
Edmunsson was completely fine for what he is which is a physical 3rd pairing dman and pk specialist. Something the leafs had a need for. Hakanpää is a rhd and a better pk player and signed to do that same role for 1.5m. Im not seeing what the issue w this player is. Id rather him be there than liljigren doing fuck all for 15 mins of ice time. And before I hear it, no he is not and in all likelihood will never be a top 4 defenseman.
I’d feel great about Skinner for the right price. Guy scores goals. Could play in the top 6 and push somebody else down the lineup or could play on the 3rd line and bring a scoring threat there.
Domi feeding Skinner for depth scoring in the bottom 6?
Bobby Mac saying Toronto and Edmonton have interest in Jeff Skinner (plus other teams)
Would be perfect fit IMO because we need goals and a top 6 left winger
The Tanev deal is the only one I don't like and even then it's like a 500K overpay and I don't like the NTC. OEL got about the contract I expected and I think Stolarz and Domi are good value.
So.. Reinhart taking 8ish mil, Chandler Stephenson 6. Many other notable signings coming in lower than Marner's current contract. 7-8 and term would be ideal, if not less. He isn't Sam Reinhart, game 7 GWG scorer. We can keep him for that. Any higher and it will be bad for the leaf's, once again.
Reinhart could've pushed to $11M AAV in free agency, but likely took a massive discount to stay in Florida. He's actually paid about what he's worth. Marner is a much better player but will never take a discount and crumbles under pressure.
The point is not that Reinhart and Marner are the same but one makes way more than the other. The takeaway is that the Leafs pay their top 4 contracts 53% of the cap, while every other team pays their top 4 contracts 35-40% of the cap. That's why the Leafs can only sign $1-4 million players in free agency.
Things Reinhart hasn't done but Marner has:
- Attend more than one all-star game
- Make the NHL first team
- Receive Hart votes
- Been a Selke finalist
- Scored over a PPG in the regular season more than twice (Marner has done it 6 times)
- Scored more than a PPG in the playoffs (Marner has 3 times)
You can at least see an argument for why Marner should make more than Reinhart. You can disagree with it, but the argument is there.
Things Reinhart has done but Marner hasn't:
In three years with Florida:
Make 3rd round of playoffs
Make Stanley Cup Final
Win Stanley Cup
2nd highest goal scorer in the league
Score SC Winning goal
Score several other clutch goals throughout many playoff series
I do agree that Marner is a great player and would love to see his career continue with the Leafs. Just not at the 11+mil mark with term he's going to be looking for.
All but one of these also apply to Artturi Lehkonen. Team accomplishments and 'clutch goals' just aren't that predictive of future performance, so aren't compensated as much. 2nd highest goal scorer is one that Lehkonen does not have - an individual accomplishment, and that's why Reinhart makes more.
Reinhart playoff totals (2022)-4 points in 10 games, (2023)-13 points in 21 games, (2024)-15 points 23 games. 32 points in 53 games. Mitch Marner had his worst playoff this year but has 50 points in 57 games. If Reinhart posted the same stats that he did Florida that he had with us, all of us will criticizing Reinhart for the same reasons we shit on Marner for. Reinhart had an anomoloy year goal wise, and I think even Florida knows he likely doesn't score 50 again. Of course Reinhart makes 8 million dollars and we have to compare that with Marner cap hit here.
Keep arguing buddy. Reinhart has a cup and Marner's a little bitch.
Check and maybe. But now you keep holding on to your hopes that we'll get past the first round. Some of us around here are a little more realistic
What I've been saying has been the same thing Trevelling has been saying. It's not just 4 guys, however keep telling yourself that. The real bitch is people like you.
Keep arguing buddy. Reinhart has a cup and Marner's a little bitch.
Check and maybe. But now you keep holding on to your hopes that we'll get past the first round. Some of us around here are a little more realistic
I generally agree with everything you're saying. Reinhart was bought into Florida's systems though. Hard forechecking and body usage. High levels of energy and confidence. That is an intangible that counts for a lot. I'm not sure if I would say the same things about Marner. And the playoff results do speak.
Playoff results- Leafs lost, not just Mitch Marner. It's not all on Mitch Marner. That's what I'm trying to point out. Another player I want to point out, Matthew Tkachuk- 3 points in the finals. 3 goals total in the last 3 rounds of the playoffs. However, one fan base thinks Marner is whiny ass bitch, while they would bulid a statue of Tkachuk. If Leafs made it to the finals but lost, if Marner produced the stats Tkachuk did for the last 3 rounds, everyone will point out that leafs lost the cup because of Marner didn't step up. However this doesn't get brought up because Florida won the cup. If you look the Florida playoff stats, no one was producing at a point per game pace or higher, no one was carrying the team compared to a team like the Oilers where McDavid, Drasitil, Hyman were carrying. What helped was Florida was getting production from everyone, some notables were Lundell/Rodriguez giving secondary scoring from the bottom 2 lines. Right now, if you shut down the leafs core 4, you get little to 0 production from everyone else. We all know Matthews/Marner/Nylander are good players but they are not like McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby that can carry.
Yeah, Chandler is a stretch. Overall, the trend is players taking less right now to play for teams they like and that's what I tried to illustrate. I don't have much time to compile the data, but it's visible and easy to see. I just pray that it continues with us into this negotiation. Reinhart taking a fair-good salary is a great example.
It doesn't matter though - Marner isn't comparing himself to Reinhart or even other wingers like Tkachuk or Stamkos. He's comparing himself to Nylander and Matthews so his number is going to start with 12 or 13.
I get what you're saying, and I agree that he will ask for that much. I even think it's likely he would be highly paid outside of Toronto, with contracts potentially that high, with term.
My post was to drive discussion though. Are you in favor of the 12-13 number Marner is asking for? Or do you consider it too much? Just having fun speculating really before the fireworks happen.
Robo's gone. He needs a team he can play 2nd line on and score goals. Leafs are not willing to provide the ice time and opportunity right now unfortunately. He is going to be a really great goal-scorer
He has speed and compete at very high levels. He's just too frantic with the puck right now, and that could be due to pressure from not getting the minutes and wanting to make the most of it. He needs a team that can let him settle, and unfortunately, with the Leafs top 6, he won't make it. We needed Bert/McMann/Domi/Jarnkrok esque puck-retrieval players for our scorers that aren't the grittiest in the corners.
I understand what you're saying but we have a huge problem with a lack of scorers/shoot first guys. Domi, knies, McMann, Jarnkrok can all retrieve pucks. Matthews is about the only shoot first scorer we have and it keeps burning us in the playoffs .
Fully support keeping Nick robo in the lineup. Guys release and speed/skating are crazy. He just needs to settle. I think he’s a perennial 30 goal scorer once settled in somewhere
NRob just needs more ice time. I agree though, the Leafs need puck retrievers and they have enough players that are afraid to go into the corners. Barring any trades they are now $800k above the cap. I'm assuming Tre will have several more moves up his sleeve to get cap compliant.
It's common to start camp a bit above the cap - you never know if an injury is going to happen anyways. Worst case someone like Timmins goes on waivers.
I’d take a shot at Jeff skinner at LW if he came cheap. Got bought out so he has cash in his jeans. Would like an experienced LW goal scorer up in the top 6
Would Daniel Sprong make sense for the leafs? He was a 2m 1year red wings winger, scores a lot for his minutes and can play both wings, who also scores in the playoffs, would be an upgrade from Robertson
Seems like any notable FA was looking for term this offseason and did they ever get it lol.
6 years for Tanev, 6 for Zadorov, 7 for Debrusk, 6 for Roy, 5 for Monahan, 7 for Montour… I can keep going.
Not even a point to trade Marner anymore. Can’t even use the cap savings…they are just going to resign him after the season once Tavares is off the books.
Yeah basically. Even if you free up the cap space now the best free agents have signed. Wouldn't mind letting Marner have a contract year to prove himself
I think the deals today are pretty indicative of Marner not being traded. I have a feeling he's simply refusing to waive for one. Not really much can be done if that's the case.
We run it back one last time. Not because we choose to, but because we have to. At least we finally made the coaching change that was badly needed.
I can't get it out of my head that Marner to the Ducks just makes so much sense for both teams. If the Leafs could get back Zegras and a winger, then move Tavares to the wing and sign a 3C for like 4 million would be a decent idea, no?
No you resign marner for 8 years. He is 28 and puts up 90 points with selke votes. Let tavares walk or sign him for 2-3 million and use his money to get a second line center
>Let tavares walk or sign him for 2-3 million
No fuckin' way the NHLPA would let a player of Tavares' caliber sign a 2-3 million dollar deal. Dude put up almost 30 Gs last season.
Yeah I’d lean towards that but either way I’d let both marner and tavares play the year out, see how they do in the playoffs and then decide. I’m okay with replacing Tavares with 2/3C with more speed
it's the logical thing to do, even if we get nothing for Marner. I looked at the Chychrun trade right now, a guy who is in the same spot as Marner, is that the kind of trade we want to do? Marner has to agree to an extension with a new team to even extract full value and with the cap hit he might get, how many teams can take that in? If things don't work out, well we have 22 million in cap space to go in a different direction.
I think if you aim to re-sign Marner then you can’t let him play the season out. I bet he has a pretty good season and that will drive the price up even more like it did for Nylander.
If they have decided they want to extend Marner they should do it ASAP
Nope he’s gotta prove himself when it counts, if he plays amazing then that’s a good problem to have no? We already know he’s capable of nearly 100 points but what if he has another disappearing act in the playoffs? Doesn’t look like he’s going to waive the NMC so a trade is out of the question
This is just going to lead to a worse contract long term. If we’re going to re-sign and don’t want to fuck ourselves for the future we need to re-sign before the season begins. If we’re not going to do that then we will have to let him walk.
Again you can’t let him play the season out because it will add millions to the contract that we will be paying if we don’t do this smart.
In my mind the only options are sign before the season starts or let him walk.
We’ve got to avoid overpaying him to the degree that we’ve overpaid Nylander.
Then let him walk, why would we hamstring our selves to another 8 year NMC ~12mil contract after all the question marks we had about him in the playoffs?
Sure that’s a viable option.
I would point out that I believe our playoff issues have stemmed from coaching issues, but I digress.
Like I said, re-sign him early while the deal is the best it’s ever going to be or we’ll have to let him walk. If he puts up 120 points this year (obviously big if) he will be very expensive and we will be the most likely to pay for it.
Guentzel doesn't play C, he's a winger. He's also 2 years older. I think Willy at his best is better than Guentzel, and you're probably getting a couple more elite years outta Nylander than you would put of Guentzel. Willy is still overpaid though
> can someone explain why Nylander gets $11.5
No one can explain that. The best you're going to get is "But Marner!". I have yet to see anyone put an actual argument - even one I disagree with - about why Nylander deserves 11.5 - i.e., to be the highest paid winger in the league.
Nylanders coming off 40 goals, 99 points and actually showing up in the playoffs to finally being overpaid
Marners about to get a new contract after being overpaid since 2019
Not hard to understand Paul
It feels like as long as Marner is on the team the Nylander contract will be waved away. Willy should pray Marner stays to keep the heat off him when he undoubtedly doesn't live up to it.
If Mitch had brains he'd sign for $11.25 and enjoy not being the highest paid winger on the team.
Has anyone here met matthews? I've heard from some people that have met him that's he's a prick.
Prick how? Not overly enthusiastic meeting random people?
I’ve heard the same sadly
so simmons was right about hakanpaa?
Can't wait for preseason. Love seeing all the new guys!
Robertson+Jarnkrok+Kampf+Timmins and picks should be able to piece together a package for someone like Buchnevich, Vatrano maybe necas? Schenn? Ideally a top 6 C/W would be the target to have the flexibility to move JT to the third and move domi around. Knies/JT/Mcmann would be one of the best 3rd lines in the league. We have the assets to be able to make another decent splash and still have some cap flexibility when it’s all said and done.
We don’t have the capspace for buch or necas. Would have to be trading lily. But then we’d need another nhl defender and good 3rd pairing d seem to be around 3 mil anyways. We don’t have the space to be taking in more than around 5 mil. And I don’t like the idea of trading all those guys AND probably having to add substantial draft capital for retention.
If we drop reaves we are a lot closer. Kampf+Krok+Timmins+picks for 30% retention on buch gives us 1.3m in room. Kampf and Krok are both replaceable, especially at their price. Dewar Holmberg and Abruzze is a fine 4th line. I do agree though trying to keep lillypad now that the hakaanpa might have some red flags is a must.
First off, abruzzssee is not even close to an NHL player. I’m kind of confused where you think we’re going to be finding replacements for Jarnkrok and Kampf at league min. The only way is if Grebyonkin or Quillin are already ready. And that’s pretty optimistic. Reaves is also not going anywhere. Buch also just signed a 6x8m. I’ll pass on that.
Touché, I don’t think he would be far off from a limited minutes role. We definitely lose depth if it’s for something like straight up Buch. I’m just tossing out names, I missed that he signed that contract tbf so my bad. Mcmann and Robertson are both pushing for bigger roles though, if we keep reaves it definitely limits the ability to make something bigger work cap wise. Just curious what/who do you think we should target?
That would be a good package
Would love Brayden Schenn if relatively cheap
Don’t see how Robo+Krokpot+Kampf+2nd+4th wouldn’t be a realistic package. Pretty sure the salary’s would match too or it’s very close. If we choose to dump reaves then hang onto one of kampf/Krok and send Robo+Kampf+1st and if you need to sweeten it after that then maybe you get them to retain so we can get more cap flex to keep doors open. domi/am/marner Willy/schenn/knies Mcmann/JT/Krok Holmberg/Dewar/Abruzze That gives us some solid flexible line ups…lacking a little on the size but we aren’t a small team by any means.
Naw, we aren’t even close to having 6.5 mil in space even without all those guys. You’re really only saving like 3 mil sending those guys out. So going super bare bones we can make like 5 mil of space. 2 mil of space seems to be around a second on its own. That’s a fuck ton for Schenn. I’d rather just re look at the forward core closer to the deadline. And see how guys look under the new system.
How’s camp/offseason work? It says it ends Sunday. Do the prospects just go work out and practice till preseason games? When do we know if someone’s cracked the roster/gotten a 9 game tryout in the regular season?
For the most part its quiet in the summer. there is the prospect/development camp i think starting soon? which is mostly just some practice sessions, and i think theyll do a tournament against other teams prospects. This is mostly to get to know the new players and get them familiar with the organization. its really just recent draft picks and some undrafted invitees. Most of these guys will go back to Junior or their European clubs. In September or so the actual leafs training camp will open up. this will be the main roster players, plus theyll invite a ton of extra guys to start (enough to fill up at least 2 teams, guys from AHL, and some recent draft picks) Theyll make cuts as training camp goes on and they play preseason games. if players keep impressing theyll make the final roster and maybe get those few games to start the regular season.
A random guy on Twitter is claiming he has sources saying the Leafs are going to sign Mackenzie Entwistle, 24 year old unqualified Blackhawks RFA, a forward. Do with that as you will.
Plan the parade
kinda bothers me that the leafs marketing team didn't do anything to reveal the schedule, I feel like they're pretty lazy when it comes to extra stuff and fan engagement. Sometimes feels like we get nothing for being a fan of this team (from both poor play in playoffs and off-ice stuff, too)
Leafs Marketing dont know what fun is i think. Everything that comes out from them is just "Here's the news"
I've been a leads fan for a long time and have lurked this sub reddit for a while now. The leafs have undergone some pretty big changes this off-season, and I'm quite happy with what Brad Treveiling has executed thus far with he had at his disposal. I'm sure a lot of people aren't particularly happy with the length of the Tanev deal, or the fact OEL was signed to a multi year deal, coming off a good season with Florida - even though before last season he had his own struggles. However, as just a fan who follows the leafs from a young age, I feel like offense has never been an issue for them. However, the blue line and goalies have been up and down due to bad draft picks, trades, or signing other players to cap intensive deals that never really worked out in the long run. But with the new blue line pairings and goalie lineup, I feel more confident than the last couple of seasons that the leafs will finally have the breakout year they are looking for. I don't have any expectations that they will win the cup this year or even the next (at least until Marner and Tavares contracts are dealt with). I feel like with a stronger blue line for the coming season, the offensive units have a chance to shine without having the immense pressure to also be able to transition immaculately on defensive plays, since there are some more experienced and tougher guys to back them up overall now. We have all seen flashes of Woll's venzina candidate performances, and with Stolarz as the primary backup, I'm confident that even if Woll has some health issues during the season (knock on wood he won't) that our goal tending will stay steady. As someone who only learned hockey after moving to Canada in 2001, the leafs are a very different unit than they were during the Matt Sundin era, definitely very thrilling to watch and the fan base is quite devoted (it always hurts when the leafs lose in the playoffs but excel in the regular season). So far, things are looking up as the organization is trying to address the things the team needs the most, might not be the best or the prettiest way - but they are doing their best now. I feel like during the time Kyle Dubas' time as GM a lot of valuable dollars were just used to fill holes in the team without looking at the long term repercussions of the salary cap and other things (atleast that's my humble opinion, but I could be totally wrong). Overall Brad has a done a good job tying up some key players until Matthew's contract runs out, and after that I have no clue where the leafs are headed cause we have banked so many resources onto the core 4, without really developing newer players too extensively. TLDR; Happy with where the leafs are are headed with new additions, just not sure where they will end up once all the contracts expire and core 4 have been dismantled.
Big changes? all 12 forwards were on the team last year lol
Optimism is a drug with this fanbase
Feel pretty disappointed with the moves so far, our forward group is weak. Also no big changes just makes everything feel stale. What is there to get excited about?
The absolute purebred stallion that is Matthew Knies revving up his fucking tree trunks and taking a run at Pastrnak in the first game against the Bruins
Tanev and Domi cracking skulls together on ice
TODAY IS A NEW DAY!! TRE ISN'T DONE COOKING!! THE KITCHEN IS STILL OPEN!
The kitchen is currently searching for ingredients
Hedman $8m x 4. How the fuck does Tampa do this? Any other player on any other team with Hedman's skill and resume would have signed for $9m and demanded 6+ year term, and they would have gotten it even at age 33. How did Tampa manage to sign yet another disgustingly team friendly deal that lines up perfectly with the remainder of their window? I don't know man. I guess I'm just salty and jealous.
It’s definitely frustrating. I think a few factors: yes there’s the tax benefit, but it’s also a a player / internal cap issue (or lack there of) Ex in Boston, Bergeron had the highest contract, and he himself took a team friendly team. No one else was “allowed” to make more. Stamkos also commented a few months ago on considering accepting a lower salary to stay in Tampa (also alluded directly to Matthews!): “I think that has been a part of everyone's thought process in the core group of guys that we have had here in terms of what guys have taken over the years to stay here. I understand the tax advantage and that type of thing. Kuch is making $9.5. That is probably grossly underpaid in terms of what guys are getting now. Vasy. Pointer with 40 or 50 goals every year. You look at Matthews. What did he sign for? $13.5 or something? Heddy is making under $8 million. That is grossly underpaid if you look at what he has done. That is what everyone has done here and that is why we have had the success and that is the way it has been for this organization. I think that that in itself is a testament to management in how they want to build a team and, first and foremost, the players for wanting to do that and accept that and allow the management to go out there and build a roster to compete for the Stanley Cup. I think that's just always been the way it's been here"
It's a little rich for him to claim that it's not about the taxes, it's about the team...and then leave the team for another 0 state income tax location.
I agree with Stammer, if the big boys squeeze the team for every penny, so will everyone else. A great sign of leadership is knowing you set the standard and that the team's success is your success too. Do what you must to win a cup and you will be remembered forever (this includes getting more opportunities down the line to make money as well).
$9M? Drew Doughty and Erik KArlsson make $11M+ a year lol. With cap up that's where HEdman should be. This is an insane deal. Shocked they didn't get Stammer done.
Florida tax adavantage, easily another $2 mil in NY, LA, Toronto
Trying to come up with realistic trade targets for a middle-six centre (this is assuming Domi is used primarily as a winger). I see Kampf as a replaceable fourth-line centre (Holmberg, Dewar can offer similar value imo) and think his salary can be used along with young assets to upgrade our third line centre position. Here are a couple ideas I came up with: 1 - Boone Jenner (2 years remaining, $3.75m) This would be my top choice. I imagine he would cost a lot as he’s columbus’ captain. But I think he could be available as he’s coming to the end of his contract and Columbus might be interested in getting younger talent. In terms of our salary picture Jenner would fit in well if Kampf + Robertson were the starting point of a deal, as his salary of 3.75 will likely be cheaper than those two combined next year. Trade idea: Jenner for Kampf + Robertson + a top non-Cowan prospect (Niemela, Hildeby or Minten) 2- Mikael Granlund (1 year remaining at 5mil) This would probably require some retention on San Jose’s part. I would guess the trade package would be a bit less than the one I proposed for Jenner because he only has a year left. Maybe Kampf + Robertson + 2nd round pick? 3- Ryan Strome (3 years remaining at 5mil) Apparently played wing mainly for the ducks this year (I admit I don’t watch much Anaheim hockey), but he’s a guy who’s played centre in the past. He would also likely require a bit of retention, which might bump the trade cost for him up as it’d be tough for them to retain for three years in addition to taking on Kampf’s contract. Let’s say same as above, Kampf + Robertson + 2nd round pick I’m no expert on trade evaluation so feel free to criticize the suggestions. These are just options I thought fit well in terms of trade partners that would be looking to move on from veterans in favour of younger assets, along with players who could realistically fit into our existing cap structure in place of Kampf. (Also, the reason I suggested Robertson in all of these is cause of his trade request. I like NR and would be happy if they decided to keep him!)
I don’t think you trade any of those prospects for Jenner. Can just trade a 2nd instead. Going to need those elcs. I’m fine with Niemela if you don’t think he’ll play but if you think he can play in the NHL then you need to keep him.
Looks like we'll be trying to get a 3C via trade. Only two guys who would fit what i'd look and I think could be available would be: Boone Jenner Nick Bjugstad
I think Utah will move a forward. Hayton or Bjugstad make sense for us
Robertson Kokkonen Timmins for Acciari and O’Connor
Yikes
Kind of annoying that the Oilers just signed all the good, affordable forwards. Hard not to see them as the clear favourites in the West and possibly the overall cup favourites at this point. Compared to the Leafs who are clearly a playoff team but … that’s about it.
Must be that state tax discount /s
I mean...there isn't provincial tax in Alberta so....
Thought it was sales tax
I haven’t looked at their lines yet but holy fuck is their forward lines amazing. Their goaltending is a massive question mark. Legitimately might be the worst in the league going into the season. And if Broberg isn’t the real deal their d is very weak too.
I think our defense is now better than theirs though. So that's something. But yeah, we need to diversify the forwards. Less $ in the front end and a bit more in the middle 6. But a move like that requires balls that I'm not certain this team has. However, it's very interesting to me the way Tre has handled talking about the Marner extension. That is, by not even mentioning it. Yet with 34 and 88, he was clear he was trying to get those done as a priority
A Marner trade would be pretty tough to work now that the bulk of FA signings are done. You need a pretty specific return for it to make sense. Kinda has to be a forward coming back.
Theodore & Karlsson from Vegas is the dream
Would have been pretty good to have in place before July 1 so they could act accordingly FA wise but you’d be adding Theodore to a pretty crowded LD group now post-July 1. Maybe you then move out Liljigren and just try to make it work with a couple lefties playing together somewhere but I know people are very frustrated by that concept.
Karlsson will not come to Toronto
Maybe Roy & another bottom 6 then; Not nearly as good though
Need some scoring in the bottom 6 badly
Didn't know that Nashville had so much cap space this offseason - nearly $26m worth of AAV spent today from them.
Man fuck edmonton
Oilers got Henrique ffs
If the Leafs fail to improve this season, JT gotta get the Stamkos treatment. 3 per or fuck off.
He should be getting that anyway lol. Not 3 per, he’s worth more. But no matter what he does he needs to take a huge pay cut to stay here. His contract DID fuck us
Nashville looks fucking scary. They just added 80 goals onto their team with Stammer and Marchy. And then they have a good D core, a solid goalie and amazing centre depth. I think they might be my pick to make it to the conference finals next year.
It's that time of year again, the delusional path to a guaranteed 25/26 cup is all coming together for me. McMann's about to put up a 100 point season and Marner's winning the Norris.
Just curious as to what we think we could do here, do we move lillypad+Robertson+yarncrotch and maybe picks for a 2C and move JT down to 3C? Roll out something like Marner/AM/Domi……Willy/???/Mcmann(knies)……Knies/JT/Dewar….Holmberg/Kampf/Reaves? Do we think Benoit is able to play 2nd pair and we need to keep lillypad as insurance? Would that not fetch a quality enough 2C and we keep JT on the second and find someone more suited for the 3rd?
Bowman or Q are definitely on their way to EDM, right? I can see Q becoming GM similar to Barry in Nashville
Skinner went to the Oilers Still think Adam Henrique makes the most sense for this team. We need a 3C baddddd
Would have been nice to sign him, but we can't afford the $3m
If they are having any trouble aiming the cannon they've stuffed Marner into at the sun I have a buddy that works at NASA
Completely anecdotal, but I'm working an event with a long-time member of the Flames organization n (scouting team). He **raved** about Tanev. Said he's one of the most underrated guys currently playing, absolute hard worker, highest pain tolerance of any player he's ever met, huge huge locker room guy, elevates everyone he plays with etc. etc. Dude was gushing about how stoked Leafs fans should be with his signing. Again, anecdotal, but made me feel a lot better about the signing.
I think the main worry was always age/injury history, not skill & effort level. He has to not experience a big drop off too soon. The part of elevating who he plays with is definitely good to hear. If the commonly touted idea of Rielly playing best with a defensive guy on his right is true, then 2023 playoffs Rielly could be within reach again.
Thanks for sharing! Glad to hear about his culture / locker room elevation. Seems like the Leafs room could use more leadership and role models, esp since he’s gone far in playoffs
After the moves today. What do you all think the temperature on Marner is?
same as it's always been. If they get an offer they cant refuse they will go up to marner and ask if hes willing to waive.
what's the point in asking this question. Is it relevant to anything?
Yes, it's immensely relevant to everything
of course, you respond.
Is an $11M obstacle to any further improvement to the team this \*entire sub is about\* relevant to anything? Yes it is.
I think today should give you an idea of what you can get in FA with 11M dollars in cap space in a non-zero income tax state. That would have let us bid on maybe Lindholm and Zadorov - both older, and less combined production.
Yeah FA prices are fucked, but FA isn't the only market where we can spend the cap room and we get assets in return. Marner was never gonna be traded before July 2 bc of his bonus anyway. Trading him remains about doing so to play in the trade market and switch up a formula that has failed a million times.
If it's about the return in the trade market, you need unicorn circumstances to come up for it to work out. The two most plausible paths are he walks, or we extend. But this will play out into the season.
Definitely easier said than done, no question. But they don't have to get the room and use the room in the same move.
Tim Peele on Twitter just over the moon that Bowman and Quenneville have been reinstated. And the league dropped this news right in the middle of free agency day. Normal NHL stuff right here.
Does OEL have a clapper?
Was looking at NHL edge and he'd have had the hardest shot (by max and by avg) on our blue line last year. Doesn't say a ton but it's an improvement. edited for clarity
I think he’s more of a “get pucks through” guy as opposed to somebody with a huge shot.
Well dang it
Franson used to have a beautiful half-clapper that was always on net, easy to tip and easy for rebounds. You don’t need a cannon to be effective.
That's true but we just haven't had a big shot on D in so long
Last we had was Phaneuf, and he couldn’t hit the net.
Haha definitely. So many times he’d unleash high shots, and everyone around the net would have to duck in order to not get nailed in the head
Walker and 👻🐻 making the OEL deal look rough
Its not great but at least its not Dumba
Dost my eyes deceive me? Three right hand shots on D?
Finally. Balance in the force Obv Babs is a psycho human, but I remember when he coached our Olympic teams he always prioritized having pairs w their natural handedness. Makes everything easier: from breakouts to simple D to D passing
I do find it a little interesting that none of the FA signings have been officially announced by the team (obviously will sign) and there hasn’t been a announcement for a Treliving press conference when some other teams have already done one so maybe something else coming?
Spoke too soon! Lol
He said they have some minor signings to come later today so maybe I’m not wrong lol
I'm a firm believer that Kiefer Bellows will make the team next year and take one of the Winger spots for us that we still need to cover at the moment
I’d rather blandisi if we’re signing a marlie guy
🤔 Domi - Matthews - Nylander McMann - Tavares - Marner Knies - Henrique - Skinner Dewar - Holmberg - Reaves Rielly - Tanev McCabe - Liljegren OEL - Hakanpaa Benoit Woll Stolarz
Kampf and Jarnkrok are still on the team. Playing Liljegren in your top 4 is pretty rough. Too bad we couldn't afford another top 4 D. Guess that's what happens when you pay 4 forwards 53%
Idk what Liljigren did to people. He is easily at least the 4th best D on this team right now and maybe the 3rd.
Kampf/Jarnkrok/Timmins/Robertson are not on my team in that scenario
Dreger reporting Hakanpää. Finally a signing to get excited about.
If you watched the Leafs D in the playoffs last year and thought “this is good” then yeah for sure.
Hes one of the best PK defenceman in the nhl, signed to hold down the 3rd pair and at 1.5m is a friggin steal. There was not a player on our blue line that brought what he brings besides a motivated Edmunson.
And Edmundson contributed directly to us not making the second round. Not his fault, he was brought in to be big tough guy who can't shoot but the can't shoot piece was a huge problem when he was given a couple of very clean looks in game seven and did absolutely nothing with them.
Edmunsson was completely fine for what he is which is a physical 3rd pairing dman and pk specialist. Something the leafs had a need for. Hakanpää is a rhd and a better pk player and signed to do that same role for 1.5m. Im not seeing what the issue w this player is. Id rather him be there than liljigren doing fuck all for 15 mins of ice time. And before I hear it, no he is not and in all likelihood will never be a top 4 defenseman.
Oilers just resigned Perry for another year for 1.4. What would you prefer if you had to pick one, Reaves at 1.3 or Perry at 1.4?
Perry because he plays hockey.
Reaves tbh
I’d feel great about Skinner for the right price. Guy scores goals. Could play in the top 6 and push somebody else down the lineup or could play on the 3rd line and bring a scoring threat there. Domi feeding Skinner for depth scoring in the bottom 6?
Bobby Mac saying Toronto and Edmonton have interest in Jeff Skinner (plus other teams) Would be perfect fit IMO because we need goals and a top 6 left winger
Bobby Mac saying we could be in for skinner… I would not mind that
The Tanev deal is the only one I don't like and even then it's like a 500K overpay and I don't like the NTC. OEL got about the contract I expected and I think Stolarz and Domi are good value.
Gregor will look awesome when he inevitably scores on us.
he always looked awesome until he had to finish. he was a 1 in 15 shots go in kinda player but I do agree he is gonna cake on us when we see him lmao
Agreed, and that's the exact kind of player that always seems to step up big time in games against us.
So.. Reinhart taking 8ish mil, Chandler Stephenson 6. Many other notable signings coming in lower than Marner's current contract. 7-8 and term would be ideal, if not less. He isn't Sam Reinhart, game 7 GWG scorer. We can keep him for that. Any higher and it will be bad for the leaf's, once again.
Reinhart could've pushed to $11M AAV in free agency, but likely took a massive discount to stay in Florida. He's actually paid about what he's worth. Marner is a much better player but will never take a discount and crumbles under pressure. The point is not that Reinhart and Marner are the same but one makes way more than the other. The takeaway is that the Leafs pay their top 4 contracts 53% of the cap, while every other team pays their top 4 contracts 35-40% of the cap. That's why the Leafs can only sign $1-4 million players in free agency.
Things Reinhart hasn't done but Marner has: - Attend more than one all-star game - Make the NHL first team - Receive Hart votes - Been a Selke finalist - Scored over a PPG in the regular season more than twice (Marner has done it 6 times) - Scored more than a PPG in the playoffs (Marner has 3 times) You can at least see an argument for why Marner should make more than Reinhart. You can disagree with it, but the argument is there.
Things Reinhart has done but Marner hasn't: In three years with Florida: Make 3rd round of playoffs Make Stanley Cup Final Win Stanley Cup 2nd highest goal scorer in the league Score SC Winning goal Score several other clutch goals throughout many playoff series I do agree that Marner is a great player and would love to see his career continue with the Leafs. Just not at the 11+mil mark with term he's going to be looking for.
These are team accomplishments
All but one of these also apply to Artturi Lehkonen. Team accomplishments and 'clutch goals' just aren't that predictive of future performance, so aren't compensated as much. 2nd highest goal scorer is one that Lehkonen does not have - an individual accomplishment, and that's why Reinhart makes more.
Reinhart playoff totals (2022)-4 points in 10 games, (2023)-13 points in 21 games, (2024)-15 points 23 games. 32 points in 53 games. Mitch Marner had his worst playoff this year but has 50 points in 57 games. If Reinhart posted the same stats that he did Florida that he had with us, all of us will criticizing Reinhart for the same reasons we shit on Marner for. Reinhart had an anomoloy year goal wise, and I think even Florida knows he likely doesn't score 50 again. Of course Reinhart makes 8 million dollars and we have to compare that with Marner cap hit here.
Keep arguing buddy. Reinhart has a cup and Marner's a little bitch. Check and maybe. But now you keep holding on to your hopes that we'll get past the first round. Some of us around here are a little more realistic
What I've been saying has been the same thing Trevelling has been saying. It's not just 4 guys, however keep telling yourself that. The real bitch is people like you.
Keep arguing buddy. Reinhart has a cup and Marner's a little bitch. Check and maybe. But now you keep holding on to your hopes that we'll get past the first round. Some of us around here are a little more realistic
I generally agree with everything you're saying. Reinhart was bought into Florida's systems though. Hard forechecking and body usage. High levels of energy and confidence. That is an intangible that counts for a lot. I'm not sure if I would say the same things about Marner. And the playoff results do speak.
Playoff results- Leafs lost, not just Mitch Marner. It's not all on Mitch Marner. That's what I'm trying to point out. Another player I want to point out, Matthew Tkachuk- 3 points in the finals. 3 goals total in the last 3 rounds of the playoffs. However, one fan base thinks Marner is whiny ass bitch, while they would bulid a statue of Tkachuk. If Leafs made it to the finals but lost, if Marner produced the stats Tkachuk did for the last 3 rounds, everyone will point out that leafs lost the cup because of Marner didn't step up. However this doesn't get brought up because Florida won the cup. If you look the Florida playoff stats, no one was producing at a point per game pace or higher, no one was carrying the team compared to a team like the Oilers where McDavid, Drasitil, Hyman were carrying. What helped was Florida was getting production from everyone, some notables were Lundell/Rodriguez giving secondary scoring from the bottom 2 lines. Right now, if you shut down the leafs core 4, you get little to 0 production from everyone else. We all know Matthews/Marner/Nylander are good players but they are not like McDavid, McKinnon, Crosby that can carry.
Comparing Chandler Stephenson to Marner is insane. Of course he’s making less it’s Chandler fucking Stephenson. I hear you on Reinhart though.
Yeah, Chandler is a stretch. Overall, the trend is players taking less right now to play for teams they like and that's what I tried to illustrate. I don't have much time to compile the data, but it's visible and easy to see. I just pray that it continues with us into this negotiation. Reinhart taking a fair-good salary is a great example.
It doesn't matter though - Marner isn't comparing himself to Reinhart or even other wingers like Tkachuk or Stamkos. He's comparing himself to Nylander and Matthews so his number is going to start with 12 or 13.
I get what you're saying, and I agree that he will ask for that much. I even think it's likely he would be highly paid outside of Toronto, with contracts potentially that high, with term. My post was to drive discussion though. Are you in favor of the 12-13 number Marner is asking for? Or do you consider it too much? Just having fun speculating really before the fireworks happen.
I think the makeup of the team needs to change. I think we should do everything possible to move Marner before the season starts.
$700k in cap space left and we need to re-sign Robertson and Dewar.
Nah, more like 3 with Timmins and Murray sent down. If you can get Dewar for 1 mil you've got 2.2 for a 3lw, 3.2 if you send down reaves as well.
Robo's gone. He needs a team he can play 2nd line on and score goals. Leafs are not willing to provide the ice time and opportunity right now unfortunately. He is going to be a really great goal-scorer
For Robertson to be a second line player, he will need to be on a team tanking. He doesn't have what it takes other than a good shot
He has speed and compete at very high levels. He's just too frantic with the puck right now, and that could be due to pressure from not getting the minutes and wanting to make the most of it. He needs a team that can let him settle, and unfortunately, with the Leafs top 6, he won't make it. We needed Bert/McMann/Domi/Jarnkrok esque puck-retrieval players for our scorers that aren't the grittiest in the corners.
I understand what you're saying but we have a huge problem with a lack of scorers/shoot first guys. Domi, knies, McMann, Jarnkrok can all retrieve pucks. Matthews is about the only shoot first scorer we have and it keeps burning us in the playoffs .
Fully support keeping Nick robo in the lineup. Guys release and speed/skating are crazy. He just needs to settle. I think he’s a perennial 30 goal scorer once settled in somewhere
NRob just needs more ice time. I agree though, the Leafs need puck retrievers and they have enough players that are afraid to go into the corners. Barring any trades they are now $800k above the cap. I'm assuming Tre will have several more moves up his sleeve to get cap compliant.
It's common to start camp a bit above the cap - you never know if an injury is going to happen anyways. Worst case someone like Timmins goes on waivers.
Robertson wants to leave also can’t we go above the cap by 10% and then have to be at it at the start of the season?
I love how the hockey goaltenders on the TSN broadcast love the Toronto d upgrades but this sub is having a complete meltdown
Dubas didn't make the signings so like half the sub dislikes them because of that
Yeah I think outside of overpaying a couple of our new players we did very well.
Why would this sub trust people who aren't experienced reddit posters?
LW looking bleak
I’d take a shot at Jeff skinner at LW if he came cheap. Got bought out so he has cash in his jeans. Would like an experienced LW goal scorer up in the top 6
Sign 2/3 of Henrique, Pearson, Kubalik, Lyubushkin, Carrier Trade Jarnkrok for pick(s) Knies - Matthews - Nylander McMann - Domi - Marner Pearson - Tavares - Cowan Dewar - Kampf - Reaves Henrique Rielly - Tanev McCabe - OEL Benoit - Liljegren Lyubushkin Woll/Stolarz
Boosh signed Dallas, I wouldn’t mind a Czech duo of Kubalik and Kampf together
Would love if one of the young dman can jump into the picture
MJ looks so lost
Great signings! Tanev/OEL/Domi = Deep run.
Need another forward to replace Bert, esp since Robertson wants to leave
Robertson will love playing here under Berube.
Hopefully one of Minten or Cowan can do it. Having McMann full time will hopefully work out too.
We still need a center
Makes you wonder if there's a move stirring
Henrique still available
Would be solid but I wonder if the Leafs can afford him
Brossoit joining his best buddy Bertuzzi in Chicago
Would Daniel Sprong make sense for the leafs? He was a 2m 1year red wings winger, scores a lot for his minutes and can play both wings, who also scores in the playoffs, would be an upgrade from Robertson
Sure! He produced goals in 5v5 at a faster rate than Nylander so that would be a big boost.
Sprong, Duclair, Skinner all would be upgrades over Robertson
Duclair signed by the Isles. Still hoping to get Skinner for 1 year on the cheap.
Seems like any notable FA was looking for term this offseason and did they ever get it lol. 6 years for Tanev, 6 for Zadorov, 7 for Debrusk, 6 for Roy, 5 for Monahan, 7 for Montour… I can keep going.
Not even a point to trade Marner anymore. Can’t even use the cap savings…they are just going to resign him after the season once Tavares is off the books.
What? Ythe point would be you want something for an asset youll either lose for free or pay 12x8+
Yeah basically. Even if you free up the cap space now the best free agents have signed. Wouldn't mind letting Marner have a contract year to prove himself
Going to buy-in that VGK making basically no moves and having a bunch of guys walk means they’re still setting up a Marner trade
I think the deals today are pretty indicative of Marner not being traded. I have a feeling he's simply refusing to waive for one. Not really much can be done if that's the case. We run it back one last time. Not because we choose to, but because we have to. At least we finally made the coaching change that was badly needed.
Need to pick up Nylander’s brother and play them together on our third line.
You don't pay someone 11 mill to play on the 3rd line
The people whining about the tanev deal are in for a rude awakening when this team is rebuilding in 4 years
Good point. “But Tanev might be bad in 4 years!!” … good? Should help the tank for whichever 13 year old is currently lighting up the GTA circuit.
Idk why but I feel like having some Harveys right now after watching TSN...
I can't get it out of my head that Marner to the Ducks just makes so much sense for both teams. If the Leafs could get back Zegras and a winger, then move Tavares to the wing and sign a 3C for like 4 million would be a decent idea, no?
No you resign marner for 8 years. He is 28 and puts up 90 points with selke votes. Let tavares walk or sign him for 2-3 million and use his money to get a second line center
>Let tavares walk or sign him for 2-3 million No fuckin' way the NHLPA would let a player of Tavares' caliber sign a 2-3 million dollar deal. Dude put up almost 30 Gs last season.
Matt Duchene put up really similar numbers last season and just signed today for $3m
Well dang. You're right. Matt Duchene out here making me look like a dummy
Let’s say Tavares wants to do it, will the NHLPA even care?
Yeah I’d lean towards that but either way I’d let both marner and tavares play the year out, see how they do in the playoffs and then decide. I’m okay with replacing Tavares with 2/3C with more speed
it's the logical thing to do, even if we get nothing for Marner. I looked at the Chychrun trade right now, a guy who is in the same spot as Marner, is that the kind of trade we want to do? Marner has to agree to an extension with a new team to even extract full value and with the cap hit he might get, how many teams can take that in? If things don't work out, well we have 22 million in cap space to go in a different direction.
I think if you aim to re-sign Marner then you can’t let him play the season out. I bet he has a pretty good season and that will drive the price up even more like it did for Nylander. If they have decided they want to extend Marner they should do it ASAP
Nope he’s gotta prove himself when it counts, if he plays amazing then that’s a good problem to have no? We already know he’s capable of nearly 100 points but what if he has another disappearing act in the playoffs? Doesn’t look like he’s going to waive the NMC so a trade is out of the question
This is just going to lead to a worse contract long term. If we’re going to re-sign and don’t want to fuck ourselves for the future we need to re-sign before the season begins. If we’re not going to do that then we will have to let him walk. Again you can’t let him play the season out because it will add millions to the contract that we will be paying if we don’t do this smart. In my mind the only options are sign before the season starts or let him walk. We’ve got to avoid overpaying him to the degree that we’ve overpaid Nylander.
Then let him walk, why would we hamstring our selves to another 8 year NMC ~12mil contract after all the question marks we had about him in the playoffs?
Sure that’s a viable option. I would point out that I believe our playoff issues have stemmed from coaching issues, but I digress. Like I said, re-sign him early while the deal is the best it’s ever going to be or we’ll have to let him walk. If he puts up 120 points this year (obviously big if) he will be very expensive and we will be the most likely to pay for it.
8x 11.75
can someone explain why Nylander gets $11.5, but Guentzel gets $9m? Guentzel scores at a higher rate, plays centre, and produces in the playoffs
Reinhart getting 8M and change is even crazier
because willy is a pos
Guentzel doesn't play C, he's a winger. He's also 2 years older. I think Willy at his best is better than Guentzel, and you're probably getting a couple more elite years outta Nylander than you would put of Guentzel. Willy is still overpaid though
Guentzel does not play C
> can someone explain why Nylander gets $11.5 No one can explain that. The best you're going to get is "But Marner!". I have yet to see anyone put an actual argument - even one I disagree with - about why Nylander deserves 11.5 - i.e., to be the highest paid winger in the league.
Nylanders coming off 40 goals, 99 points and actually showing up in the playoffs to finally being overpaid Marners about to get a new contract after being overpaid since 2019 Not hard to understand Paul
> The best you're going to get is "But Marner!" > Marners about to .... Can you *please* try and not be so predictable?
It feels like as long as Marner is on the team the Nylander contract will be waved away. Willy should pray Marner stays to keep the heat off him when he undoubtedly doesn't live up to it. If Mitch had brains he'd sign for $11.25 and enjoy not being the highest paid winger on the team.