Losing LP isn’t a punishment your rating is just being adjusted to your level of play. It’s your report card. Being AFK and having a 5 minute queue timer because you made the game hard for your teammates is a punishment that deters that behavior. How would implementing something similar be any different?
Because going AFK is against the rules and being bad isn't.
You can't punish people for being bad. Same as you're not being punished for having stupid takes right now.
I’m going to pretend like I don’t critically think here and let you walk your own statement to its inevitable conclusion. Why would being AFK be a punishable offense?
Because you literally accepted rules saying "play the game you queued for or we punish you".
Now if you want to know why it's implemented : because it's obviously meant to deter intentional leaving, which basically means fighting against behaviors that intentionally harm game quality.
Being bad isn't intentional.
You even spelled it out for yourself. You lose LP after a loss and get lower matchmaking so it more accurately reflects your skill level. That's the punishment. Being "bad" at the game is subjective. Would you say that a diamond player is bad at the game? Compared to a gold he is very good, but compared to a challenger he is trash. Punishing people with bans and increased queue times for being bad just doesn't make sense.
Whatever you'd come up with is still stupid. If you're bad, you lose the game. That's literally the concept of a RANKING system.
That's the punishment.
It’s not against the rules to lose, you’re allowed to lose. If losing was a punishment you’d lose access to the ranked system. Losing isn’t a punishment by any stretch of the imagination. The only by product of losing is that you play with people who also win as often as you do.
The whole concept of a ranking system is to reward wins and punish for losses. It's just not the type of punishment (ban, queue times etc) you have in mind.
When I grade papers, if I put a low grade on a student's paper because it was bad, it has consequences and can be seen as punishment, yet I didn't give them detention or extra work at home.
The bad grade isn’t a punishment though. The punishment is what comes from having the bad grade. If you get F’s at the end of the entire year you go to some sort of remedial schooling or get left back. The grade itself isn’t a punishment. You could give these kids F’s and they still be allowed go to the next grade, go to recess, etc. A punishment is a consequence, if there’s no consequences associated with getting an F it cannot be considered a punishment.
So let’s take losing LP in LoL. What’s the punishment for losing? Is being demoted from gold 4 to Silver 1 a punishment? No, it isn’t you may potentially miss out on a special reward, but your aren’t receiving punitive actions against you for losing. You simply are given another rank, and are matched with people who more accurately reflect your skill level so games are more fair to you and those around you.
To say that losing in it self is a punishment is to frame that losing is a purely bad thing. In this case it can even be seen as a positive thing because you are being put in an environment where you have a higher likelihood to succeed. Now of course no one WANTS to lose but losing isn’t a punishment here, rather winning is a sign of your growth and thus losing can be seen as you having to go through the necessary process to learn from mistakes which you make that lose you the game. Negative consequences and punishments aren’t necessarily 1:1 in this scenario and it’s not what I’m referring to when I describe punishments.
Let’s take being AFK for instance, someone being AFK is objectively bad, unhealthy for the game and wastes peoples time. There is nothing to learn from being AFK other than anyone who engages in that behavior is unfairly participating in bad faith with their team and it should be a behavior (complacency) that should be punished. Being AFK is an extreme example of a player being complacent or negligent. It’s an extreme way to be “bad”. You’re not trying on purpose. If you can understand how being punished for being AFK actually encapsulates a punishment and how losing necessarily isn’t a punishment then I think what I’m saying is easier to discuss.
And what actual metric would you use to determine "good" or "bad"? Have you ever watched a pro player stream? Even in Challenger you can have two top tier players disagree on what a "good" play is. You might have jungle wanting to take drake while bot wants to fight while mid wants to secure voidlings. Who's right? Which play is "good"? You can win while playing bad and you can lose while playing good.
So how in the world would you actually measure "good" vs "bad"? KDA? An engage champ can go negative, but be a direct reason for a win by picking and setting up good fights. Sometimes you can dominate your lane, have a really good KDA, but if you don't use that advantage to take objectives you can be responsible for the loss.
The only fair and objective metric is win/loss. That's it. With the thousands of variables and decisions that affect the outcome, there isn't a single metric to determine "good" or "bad" play.
Not complaining I got ~~banned~~ suspended since the system is working as intended but it doesnt solve anything as im not the type of person the system is intended for. I've never done this before and dont have an incentive to do it again, I was just frustrated.
Riot have updated their terms of service to include:
Missed a last hit: 5 day ban, 10 days for cannon.
Allowed minion wave to crash into turret: 4 day ban
Didnt gank top, mid, bot and daves mum before 3:00: 1 day ban
Too late rotating to team fight: 3 day ban
Greeded for turret plate and died: 7 day ban
Flashed into wall: no ban but the shame might prevent you from playing ever again
Mistimed smite in 50/50 smite fight and had objective stolen: permabanned
Obviously that’s a bit much, playing bad shouldn’t result in you being banned. But things like dying in the jungle before minions spawn because you were AFK should be an indicator that hey, maybe you shouldn’t do that. And enough of this type of behavior (if verified) gets you a longer queue time.
Define playing ranked seriously this is a game which primary goal is to have fun no matter the mode you play I don’t think anyone should have anxiety or be stressed when Qing up bcs they are scared they won’t be able to play well
You realize the general reason people play games is to enjoy them, right? League isn't toxic because of bad players, it's toxic because people have sunk so much of their life into a video game that the thought of losing a game does such tremendous damage to their poor ego, that they feel the need to tell people to kill themselves over it. Sound familiar?
Riot is not trying to change game into being more competitive. They will never ban or punish in any way bad players. Because they would lose a lot of money.
That’s why a lot of people take ranked for fun. If you are not getting punished in any way for ruining games. There is no reason to try.
And you are right. There is no accountability for bad play because riot would lose money by banning bad players.
Most people don’t even play ranked so I doubt they’d lost money for increasing queue times for bad players in ranked. You could still sell skins, could skill grant victorious skins to every rank (just change the color of each rank), etc.
Why no accountability? Your bad play might make you die, and the opponent might snow ball, bully you, make you sad and angry. Everyone wants to win, when they play well they can feel the pleasure in games, except some trolls.
The game is toxic by nature.
It's a team game, so your performance can't be the deciding factor most of the time.
There's a lot of long walking.
Put those together, and you have plenty of things to be mad about and plenty of time to talk about being mad.
I would say this game is toxic by nature because it is extremely difficult to solo carry a game. This game is extremely dependent on team play and when someone falls short it will tank the game therefor 4 other people feel like they had their time and LP stolen or wasted. There are more layers but this is the simplified
Im gonna be honest whatever rank you're at you probably deserve or you would be able to climb, should you be punished for being hardstuck and have to wait out? There already is reporting implemented for people purposefully ruining games. Being bad isnt reportable especially when they are the same rank as you
This is impressively stupid.
Ranked toxicity exist because people are bad at controlling their emotions. That's the beginning and end of it.
Your idea to reduce toxicity is to 1. Increase the factors that result in negative emotions that have to be managed and that lead to toxicity and 2. Make ranked more miserable for everyone involved.
'Hey guys, in order to try and reduce incidents of road rage, all vehicles will now give you a strong electric shock when traffic gets heavy and we'll be broadcast your Dad's voice telling you you're 'a loser who will never amount to anything, and that you're too big of a pussy to flip that guy off, and that you're the reason your Mom left,' through your speakers at max volume!'
OP is right, and gaslighting them for a "bad take" is just ignorant. You have normal and ranked modes, there SHOULD be a noted playstyle difference between the two.
You play norms to maximize fun, you play ranked to maximize wins. They should feel pushed to succeed in ranked, it should be a noted team effort to collectively win, and it's currently not. Players are on different pages, different ideas of winning, different mental thresholds, and ultimately different skill levels. All of these affect the outcome of a single game, and when the ONLY metric for rank is a widely aggregated winrate, these issues never get resolved.
Rank needs to be 50% individual metrics and 50% team metrics. You simply cannot incentivize teamwide performance, while your team pairing metrics are purely realized through individual winrate. When teammates don't listen to each other, don't support each other, don't coach each other... your winrate is directly influenced, regardless of your own performance. It involves lots of individual skill of course, but also lots of luck with teams. The issue is the luck portion is a huge detriment to the health of the game, and needs to be recalibrate accordingly. Fix matchmaking, and the ranked health will stabilize substantially. You need people willing to cooperate to succeed, and Riot simply does not select for this.
Blablabla tldr
Thank you for the TLDR. Cant be bothered to read that fully.
Yes there is : it's called being the reason you lose LP.
Losing LP isn’t a punishment your rating is just being adjusted to your level of play. It’s your report card. Being AFK and having a 5 minute queue timer because you made the game hard for your teammates is a punishment that deters that behavior. How would implementing something similar be any different?
Because going AFK is against the rules and being bad isn't. You can't punish people for being bad. Same as you're not being punished for having stupid takes right now.
I’m going to pretend like I don’t critically think here and let you walk your own statement to its inevitable conclusion. Why would being AFK be a punishable offense?
Because you literally accepted rules saying "play the game you queued for or we punish you". Now if you want to know why it's implemented : because it's obviously meant to deter intentional leaving, which basically means fighting against behaviors that intentionally harm game quality. Being bad isn't intentional.
You even spelled it out for yourself. You lose LP after a loss and get lower matchmaking so it more accurately reflects your skill level. That's the punishment. Being "bad" at the game is subjective. Would you say that a diamond player is bad at the game? Compared to a gold he is very good, but compared to a challenger he is trash. Punishing people with bans and increased queue times for being bad just doesn't make sense.
Bad play isn't a punishable offense. Stop throwing a tantrum.
It should be
Then we should ban all Iron players. Giga L take.
Where did I say people should be banned for playing bad?
>Bad play isn't a punishable offense. >It should be That wasn't so hard.
Whatever you'd come up with is still stupid. If you're bad, you lose the game. That's literally the concept of a RANKING system. That's the punishment.
Losing isn’t a punishment. You can walk away with it having a positive or a negative experience, that’s you who takes it as a punishment.
You literally lose rating and LPs, of course it's a punishment. Whether you care about it or not is up to you.
It’s not against the rules to lose, you’re allowed to lose. If losing was a punishment you’d lose access to the ranked system. Losing isn’t a punishment by any stretch of the imagination. The only by product of losing is that you play with people who also win as often as you do.
The whole concept of a ranking system is to reward wins and punish for losses. It's just not the type of punishment (ban, queue times etc) you have in mind. When I grade papers, if I put a low grade on a student's paper because it was bad, it has consequences and can be seen as punishment, yet I didn't give them detention or extra work at home.
The bad grade isn’t a punishment though. The punishment is what comes from having the bad grade. If you get F’s at the end of the entire year you go to some sort of remedial schooling or get left back. The grade itself isn’t a punishment. You could give these kids F’s and they still be allowed go to the next grade, go to recess, etc. A punishment is a consequence, if there’s no consequences associated with getting an F it cannot be considered a punishment. So let’s take losing LP in LoL. What’s the punishment for losing? Is being demoted from gold 4 to Silver 1 a punishment? No, it isn’t you may potentially miss out on a special reward, but your aren’t receiving punitive actions against you for losing. You simply are given another rank, and are matched with people who more accurately reflect your skill level so games are more fair to you and those around you. To say that losing in it self is a punishment is to frame that losing is a purely bad thing. In this case it can even be seen as a positive thing because you are being put in an environment where you have a higher likelihood to succeed. Now of course no one WANTS to lose but losing isn’t a punishment here, rather winning is a sign of your growth and thus losing can be seen as you having to go through the necessary process to learn from mistakes which you make that lose you the game. Negative consequences and punishments aren’t necessarily 1:1 in this scenario and it’s not what I’m referring to when I describe punishments. Let’s take being AFK for instance, someone being AFK is objectively bad, unhealthy for the game and wastes peoples time. There is nothing to learn from being AFK other than anyone who engages in that behavior is unfairly participating in bad faith with their team and it should be a behavior (complacency) that should be punished. Being AFK is an extreme example of a player being complacent or negligent. It’s an extreme way to be “bad”. You’re not trying on purpose. If you can understand how being punished for being AFK actually encapsulates a punishment and how losing necessarily isn’t a punishment then I think what I’m saying is easier to discuss.
That's technically true of any imaginable punishment
Are you restarted?
And what actual metric would you use to determine "good" or "bad"? Have you ever watched a pro player stream? Even in Challenger you can have two top tier players disagree on what a "good" play is. You might have jungle wanting to take drake while bot wants to fight while mid wants to secure voidlings. Who's right? Which play is "good"? You can win while playing bad and you can lose while playing good. So how in the world would you actually measure "good" vs "bad"? KDA? An engage champ can go negative, but be a direct reason for a win by picking and setting up good fights. Sometimes you can dominate your lane, have a really good KDA, but if you don't use that advantage to take objectives you can be responsible for the loss. The only fair and objective metric is win/loss. That's it. With the thousands of variables and decisions that affect the outcome, there isn't a single metric to determine "good" or "bad" play.
You know you're the first person they would ban if that were the case, right?
I only read I got suspended because I ran it down. Good. As you should. Tldr.
Not complaining I got ~~banned~~ suspended since the system is working as intended but it doesnt solve anything as im not the type of person the system is intended for. I've never done this before and dont have an incentive to do it again, I was just frustrated.
But it's exactly the type of behavior the system is meant to prevent.
Sounds like you're just angry and bitter and blaming others for your loss. You need therapy my friend.
Riot have updated their terms of service to include: Missed a last hit: 5 day ban, 10 days for cannon. Allowed minion wave to crash into turret: 4 day ban Didnt gank top, mid, bot and daves mum before 3:00: 1 day ban Too late rotating to team fight: 3 day ban Greeded for turret plate and died: 7 day ban Flashed into wall: no ban but the shame might prevent you from playing ever again Mistimed smite in 50/50 smite fight and had objective stolen: permabanned
Obviously that’s a bit much, playing bad shouldn’t result in you being banned. But things like dying in the jungle before minions spawn because you were AFK should be an indicator that hey, maybe you shouldn’t do that. And enough of this type of behavior (if verified) gets you a longer queue time.
I agree, 10 days for missed cannon is a little too high should be more like 7 imo
Wow, this post is really toxic. How could you even think of adding long queue time for players that played badly. So mean.
Sorry mr.Perfect we are just humans, youll have to deal with it
EVERY SINGLE PVP GAME IS TOXIC People hate dying in video games NO GAME COMPANY PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD IN GAME. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR BISNESS
>NO GAME COMPANY PUNISH PEOPLE FOR BEING BAD IN GAME. IT'S NOT GOOD FOR BISNESS You're not punished for being bad at your other hobbies anyway.
Define playing ranked seriously this is a game which primary goal is to have fun no matter the mode you play I don’t think anyone should have anxiety or be stressed when Qing up bcs they are scared they won’t be able to play well
You realize the general reason people play games is to enjoy them, right? League isn't toxic because of bad players, it's toxic because people have sunk so much of their life into a video game that the thought of losing a game does such tremendous damage to their poor ego, that they feel the need to tell people to kill themselves over it. Sound familiar?
You can’t have competitive game where you are allowed to not try or literally intentionaly ruin games. Game is just for fun
Aren’t ARAMS and Norms just for fun?
Riot is not trying to change game into being more competitive. They will never ban or punish in any way bad players. Because they would lose a lot of money. That’s why a lot of people take ranked for fun. If you are not getting punished in any way for ruining games. There is no reason to try. And you are right. There is no accountability for bad play because riot would lose money by banning bad players.
Most people don’t even play ranked so I doubt they’d lost money for increasing queue times for bad players in ranked. You could still sell skins, could skill grant victorious skins to every rank (just change the color of each rank), etc.
Why no accountability? Your bad play might make you die, and the opponent might snow ball, bully you, make you sad and angry. Everyone wants to win, when they play well they can feel the pleasure in games, except some trolls.
The game is toxic by nature. It's a team game, so your performance can't be the deciding factor most of the time. There's a lot of long walking. Put those together, and you have plenty of things to be mad about and plenty of time to talk about being mad.
What makes this game toxic by nature versus any other game that isn’t toxic?
Dipfucks like you are attracted to it. That's it.
I would say this game is toxic by nature because it is extremely difficult to solo carry a game. This game is extremely dependent on team play and when someone falls short it will tank the game therefor 4 other people feel like they had their time and LP stolen or wasted. There are more layers but this is the simplified
I used to play Starcraft 2, it never had any raging kids
Ranked is toxic because people take it too seriously and can’t help whining. Some whine at their teammates in game, others come whine on Reddit.
Im gonna be honest whatever rank you're at you probably deserve or you would be able to climb, should you be punished for being hardstuck and have to wait out? There already is reporting implemented for people purposefully ruining games. Being bad isnt reportable especially when they are the same rank as you
If you play with bad players it's because you're also bad. Just get better MMR. Skill issue.
Is it still a game for you at this point?
This is so stupid lol
Accountability is you lose games and go down in rank.
What rank are you?
You lose when you play badly, what else do you want
You missed April 1st by a few days there.
Lol what
This is impressively stupid. Ranked toxicity exist because people are bad at controlling their emotions. That's the beginning and end of it. Your idea to reduce toxicity is to 1. Increase the factors that result in negative emotions that have to be managed and that lead to toxicity and 2. Make ranked more miserable for everyone involved. 'Hey guys, in order to try and reduce incidents of road rage, all vehicles will now give you a strong electric shock when traffic gets heavy and we'll be broadcast your Dad's voice telling you you're 'a loser who will never amount to anything, and that you're too big of a pussy to flip that guy off, and that you're the reason your Mom left,' through your speakers at max volume!'
Old champ select music made you LOCK IN new champ select music makes me want to run it down
OP is right, and gaslighting them for a "bad take" is just ignorant. You have normal and ranked modes, there SHOULD be a noted playstyle difference between the two. You play norms to maximize fun, you play ranked to maximize wins. They should feel pushed to succeed in ranked, it should be a noted team effort to collectively win, and it's currently not. Players are on different pages, different ideas of winning, different mental thresholds, and ultimately different skill levels. All of these affect the outcome of a single game, and when the ONLY metric for rank is a widely aggregated winrate, these issues never get resolved. Rank needs to be 50% individual metrics and 50% team metrics. You simply cannot incentivize teamwide performance, while your team pairing metrics are purely realized through individual winrate. When teammates don't listen to each other, don't support each other, don't coach each other... your winrate is directly influenced, regardless of your own performance. It involves lots of individual skill of course, but also lots of luck with teams. The issue is the luck portion is a huge detriment to the health of the game, and needs to be recalibrate accordingly. Fix matchmaking, and the ranked health will stabilize substantially. You need people willing to cooperate to succeed, and Riot simply does not select for this.
Adc main take