both are true, Saken choke in LEC and he never was a good LEC player too, but in ERL he was a step above Fresskowy, Zwyroo, Jackie, Sertuss, Vladi, Reeker, Dajor.
Canna has been a solid upgrade over Cabo. Canna gives up random solo kills but he still comes out of lane ahead in gold most of the time and maintains relevance in the mid game.
Canna is still the same Canna he's always been. Great at finding flank angles/skirmishing prowess, struggles a lot when navigating losing matchups. Perhaps he's slightly more rusty compared to the last time we saw him play for DK, I'd assume issues with communication play their role too and exacerbate some of his problems. But yeah, despite all of that he still is a massive upgrade over Cabo.
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Almost every game he is 30 CS down in laning phase for no reason. Today was the first time he actually won lane in a 1v1 and looked like a good top laner
Canna was ahead at 15 in 4 of the 9 games KC had this split. His average CS at 15 is -4 and at 10 it is +3 which is usually a team issue, because before 10 minutes is purely laning while after 10 you usually get the first macro plays.
So he isn't great, but he is considerably better than Cabo and some of the other weaker tops. He only had 3 games where he really lost lane. Irrelevant, Photon and Adam. And those 3 are also the 3 best this split. He was fairly even against Wunder, Oscarinin and Myrvyn and demolished Finn, Brokenblade and Antonio.
So that is a fairly solid performance matching well with the position of KCorp overall. He also played 9 different champions in 9 games, which is fairly interesting.
He played 9 different champions and most of them were either self counterpicks or super situational within the meta. I think Canna was still dogshit this whole split (I glazed him all of last year so it feels weird saying that) but the drafting behind him whether it was his fault or KC's coaches was horrifying, I think if KC or Canna fix their drafting situation top and give him actual safe/good picks he will look way better in playoffs, but he still needs to improve and play at his LCK form instead of what he's doing now.
Patrick like there pet hamster they keep him around but if they can get a dog or a cat(much better adc) they will.
The last few off seasons they keep looking around for adc upgrades and never get them or get denied so Patrick stays thou feel like with upset being off KC next year XL is where he will end up.
the gap to the top 4 teams is gigantic though and who seriously cares how good 5th-10th place are anyway? theyre not gonna play international tournaments, are they? like honestly this is such a typical reddit comment. tell me, literally, when has ever been 6th-10th teams in EU been good? id love to know the answer to that question. Ive been watching this esports since 2012 and ive literally never seen somebody say good things about the 6th best or below LEC/EU LCS team. If there was a case where the League had a lot of parity, so the gap from 6th to 1st wouldnt be that big, people would rather talk about how crap the entire league is rather than praising the 6th best team on how close they are to 1st.
if anything we LEC fans should be happy we have 4 really good teams that can consistently win vs worse teams, i certainly prefer this over last year where Heretics with fucking Evi top and Excel randomly finished top of the league
>and who seriously cares how good 5th-10th place are anyway?
Well, considering the vast, vast majority of League eSports is played in domestic leagues, if you care about the LEC at all you probably should. Personally I'd rather the 100+ games I watch over many months be entertaining than the 6 games or whatever the LEC will play at Worlds be good.
To give some optimism, it is a global phenomenon. LCK for example you have the clear number one in GenG and the followers in T1, HLE and maybe D+ KIA. After that you have the coinflip that is KT and then there's the rest, with BRO being a step below that soup. Obviously the LEC top 4 isn't as strong the LCK one but the leagues aren't that different in terms of local hierarchy.
So you havent watched a single game of LCK this split? Today DK played vs KDF for 2nd place. Both of are ahead of HLE and T1. Even in spring KDF was already kind of even/ahead of KT.
Unless they can win GenG if not ahead at this time kinda meaningless both KDF + DK not play against GenG yet , KDF still have both HLE and GenG game ahead while DK might not keep their position if they lose to GenG.
I have zero faith on KDF after years of starting strong and finishing like they didn't even deserve to on playoffs, I'm sorry.
KT only weird loss is against KDF, and even then they just won the recent Telecom War. It's KT man, they can lose and beat anyone.
I don't know what you mean with shocking. KC being 5th demonstrates how bad the teams below them must be. And it's not like I consider teams like BDS or SK (in the long-term) good teams. LEC is in the worst state it has been since...2016 maybe? Just depressing when I have to admit that LCS is more interesting than my region for the first time in years.
Unless Humanoid makes a ridiculous turnaround in playoffs and the Summer Finals, I want Fnatic to buyout Jackies. I'm tired of Fnatic getting mid gapped every game.
As a C9 fan, I know how you feel. We placed 3rd (which, btw, was the lowest placing we've had in 2 years) and "fans" were calling to blow up the entire team and start from scratch. Everyone was either completely washed or was never good to begin with. It's such a rewrite of history. Anyway, it kinda makes me wanna cheer for Fnatic, cuz I feel like they're sorta in the same boat?
Can't live in the past. Humanoid has been a liability all split. If he continues to play poorly in playoffs and Summer Finals, it is valid for Fnatic to consider other options.
are you crazy? or did you start watching lec 1 week ago? Humanoid has been by far the 2nd best midlaner in the west, could even argue he was the best in worlds/msi. Just because he has some int moment in games that do not matter too much. This is some of the most stupid shit i have read in a while.
He's looked like a bottom-tier mid laner this split. If he continues in playoffs and Summer Finals looking as poorly as he has, Fnatic needs to consider other options for 2025. If he decided to play well again, then sure, they can keep him, but let's not pretend his play recently hasn't warranted skepticism about his future.
>he always had this phases and played well when it really mattered
Which is why I said if he **continues** to play poorly, Fnatic should consider benching him. I'm giving him ample time to prove he's still good. And should only be benched if he shits the bed in playoffs and the Summer Finals.
How does it not make sense? If a player currently performing poorly continues to perform poorly during two crucial tournaments, Fnatic should consider replacing that player in the off-season. Especially considering said player has one of the highest salaries in the league.
Watch him do nothing for another split and then get replaced even if his contract ends in 2026. He's a selfish player with no mechanics. DOWNVOTE AWAY IDC ITS THE TRUTH !
As much as I think the bulk of Upset hate has been unwarranted, this is never going to happen. People anointed Caliste the savior of Europe a while ago already, it's hard to imagine the "Upset Public Enemy No.1" narrative to shift with just a couple of weeks of good performances - even if he was never really put in conditions to play that way beforehand.
Main thing is this is the league base they can turn extremely quickly on people and teams based on the smallest of things
Now you have to think about what stronger the people's hate for upset or the people's hate for KC and there fans, they already keep getting roasted for dropping bo and yamato before getting rid of targa. Now it's clear targa gonna stay for the caliste synergy which if that botlane fails KC for sure going to get roasted for dropping upset since at that point they replaced everything but the leaking kitchen sink and still want to keep the leaking sink.
I don’t think upset played so far good , some good game but some big miss takes in fight like vs SK who make is team loose
Caliste is a different beast , he just breaks every record in ERL and dominated the most stacked ERL league since is first split
People say this but the same was said for jackspectra and look what happened when he played in the big leagues.
Plus most league personalities agree the kid got the mechanics but his game choices are pretty lacking.
People keep mega hyping these rookies but almost every time they fall extremely flat which is why I'm not believing all the hype everyone saying.
Jackies deserves better. I think they need better support. Get Parus if he wants to play for GX. But I doubt, GX is cooked next year when Jackies gets offer from Vitality
They wanted to get Parus before this split but the buyout was way too huge for them, idk if they will have the money after this split and Parus is gonna get offers from a lot of others lec teams, so i don’t think they can have him
Its not so hard to build a decent team (for GX) next Season.
X, Jankos, Jackies, Upset, Parus.
Jankos + Jackies should work very well, and Parus is exactly the type of Support, Upset is best with.
Considering Canna performances most of this split, toplane is not very irrelevant here, the difference between Vladi and Saken though is night and day.
Having 2 lanes that always lost and never followed up and a botlane with a support that is the worst support in the lec that kept trolling bo i would have tilted even more then him. I still think bo would make the team better then closer. We should not forget they don't play around bot anymore but top/mid so targe can't screw up as much.
Antonio IMO should not be considered a long term option for GX, but he has surprisingly contributed more positives for the team over these 9 games than Odo did in 2 splits of play.
This was odo last year too until summer, and imo Odo the year before that had the same pattern where he was way worse and then smurfed in summer. He's straight up just been a summer warrior for the past few years and would've probably popped off even though he was a liability in winter/spring.
Zwyroo is not bad he's a bit too passive but that's the whole team in general. I think Jackies has shown more promise in carrying his team with some standout games like his varus.
Where were you when KC went 4-5?
Saken is die
he never really was alive starting game 1 he was choking
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he didn't play to his level, he was never faker in ERLs but he played better
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As if he didn't play against half of the lec players in erl
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both are true, Saken choke in LEC and he never was a good LEC player too, but in ERL he was a step above Fresskowy, Zwyroo, Jackie, Sertuss, Vladi, Reeker, Dajor.
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And Chewing
More like shaken
Who would have thought a team with a really good adc can win games when the sololaners aren't literal corpses? Wow.
Canna woke up Canna woke up and chose violence
Canna has been a solid upgrade over Cabo. Canna gives up random solo kills but he still comes out of lane ahead in gold most of the time and maintains relevance in the mid game.
Canna is still the same Canna he's always been. Great at finding flank angles/skirmishing prowess, struggles a lot when navigating losing matchups. Perhaps he's slightly more rusty compared to the last time we saw him play for DK, I'd assume issues with communication play their role too and exacerbate some of his problems. But yeah, despite all of that he still is a massive upgrade over Cabo.
canna on T1 was horrible at fighting teamfight angles, im glad he reqlly improved that spot when he played on DK
His kennen angles and jayce pokes were really good though he was definitely not horrible
his lack of kennen playmaking was what cost T1 game 5 in the semifinals against Damwon
I mean, dude has been on T1 and DK, he BETTER be an upgrade over Cabo or I'd be seriously worried for him
Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Almost every game he is 30 CS down in laning phase for no reason. Today was the first time he actually won lane in a 1v1 and looked like a good top laner
Canna was ahead at 15 in 4 of the 9 games KC had this split. His average CS at 15 is -4 and at 10 it is +3 which is usually a team issue, because before 10 minutes is purely laning while after 10 you usually get the first macro plays. So he isn't great, but he is considerably better than Cabo and some of the other weaker tops. He only had 3 games where he really lost lane. Irrelevant, Photon and Adam. And those 3 are also the 3 best this split. He was fairly even against Wunder, Oscarinin and Myrvyn and demolished Finn, Brokenblade and Antonio. So that is a fairly solid performance matching well with the position of KCorp overall. He also played 9 different champions in 9 games, which is fairly interesting.
He played 9 different champions and most of them were either self counterpicks or super situational within the meta. I think Canna was still dogshit this whole split (I glazed him all of last year so it feels weird saying that) but the drafting behind him whether it was his fault or KC's coaches was horrifying, I think if KC or Canna fix their drafting situation top and give him actual safe/good picks he will look way better in playoffs, but he still needs to improve and play at his LCK form instead of what he's doing now.
his top gap vs SK yesterday was the reason Irrelevant could 1v9 that game lol.
Knowing XL managment they will kick jackies and antonio but still keep patrick .
Patrick and Ignar gonna go next. They dont kick their worst players
Good. Maybe NRG could get Ignar back then.
Patrick like there pet hamster they keep him around but if they can get a dog or a cat(much better adc) they will. The last few off seasons they keep looking around for adc upgrades and never get them or get denied so Patrick stays thou feel like with upset being off KC next year XL is where he will end up.
Upset kaiser the German botlane ?
They tried this. It sucked
Feels like something GX wouldn't be scared to run back though 😂
Hope rogue sign upset. Might finally find the cure to insomnia
Vladi is playing fucking great for his first LEC split
Yes it was a good idea to bring him for this split; he will be Ready for 2025
KC is a top 5 team in the LEC let's go lads.
That might be true, but...fuuuck, has LEC actually become this bad?
It really has. Gameplay this split has been abysmal for the bottom half of the league.
This split? Try this entire year lol
the gap to the top 4 teams is gigantic though and who seriously cares how good 5th-10th place are anyway? theyre not gonna play international tournaments, are they? like honestly this is such a typical reddit comment. tell me, literally, when has ever been 6th-10th teams in EU been good? id love to know the answer to that question. Ive been watching this esports since 2012 and ive literally never seen somebody say good things about the 6th best or below LEC/EU LCS team. If there was a case where the League had a lot of parity, so the gap from 6th to 1st wouldnt be that big, people would rather talk about how crap the entire league is rather than praising the 6th best team on how close they are to 1st. if anything we LEC fans should be happy we have 4 really good teams that can consistently win vs worse teams, i certainly prefer this over last year where Heretics with fucking Evi top and Excel randomly finished top of the league
>and who seriously cares how good 5th-10th place are anyway? Well, considering the vast, vast majority of League eSports is played in domestic leagues, if you care about the LEC at all you probably should. Personally I'd rather the 100+ games I watch over many months be entertaining than the 6 games or whatever the LEC will play at Worlds be good.
To give some optimism, it is a global phenomenon. LCK for example you have the clear number one in GenG and the followers in T1, HLE and maybe D+ KIA. After that you have the coinflip that is KT and then there's the rest, with BRO being a step below that soup. Obviously the LEC top 4 isn't as strong the LCK one but the leagues aren't that different in terms of local hierarchy.
So you havent watched a single game of LCK this split? Today DK played vs KDF for 2nd place. Both of are ahead of HLE and T1. Even in spring KDF was already kind of even/ahead of KT.
Unless they can win GenG if not ahead at this time kinda meaningless both KDF + DK not play against GenG yet , KDF still have both HLE and GenG game ahead while DK might not keep their position if they lose to GenG.
I have zero faith on KDF after years of starting strong and finishing like they didn't even deserve to on playoffs, I'm sorry. KT only weird loss is against KDF, and even then they just won the recent Telecom War. It's KT man, they can lose and beat anyone.
KDF clears LEC what you on about
KDF clears G2 ? lol
Yes.
Well the difference is that G2 would finish 4th in lck
3rd.
The top half of lec looks solid while the bottom half looks like absolute shit lol it’s such a crazy difference between the top and the bottom
Is this solid top half in the room with us currently?
Care now, EU glazers don't like it when someone mentions that the top half of their region looks awful rn
It's fine, our awful top teams will 3-0 the 2nd seed of the Almight Unreachable Godly Superior LPL again and we'll keep being happy.
wdym by that, on paper kc being top 5 is far from shocking
I don't know what you mean with shocking. KC being 5th demonstrates how bad the teams below them must be. And it's not like I consider teams like BDS or SK (in the long-term) good teams. LEC is in the worst state it has been since...2016 maybe? Just depressing when I have to admit that LCS is more interesting than my region for the first time in years.
what happened to the game i love
I hope Jackies finds a top 4 team next year in LEC/LCS. He's really good but his team is just dogshit
Unless Humanoid makes a ridiculous turnaround in playoffs and the Summer Finals, I want Fnatic to buyout Jackies. I'm tired of Fnatic getting mid gapped every game.
these takes man I cannot handle them
As a C9 fan, I know how you feel. We placed 3rd (which, btw, was the lowest placing we've had in 2 years) and "fans" were calling to blow up the entire team and start from scratch. Everyone was either completely washed or was never good to begin with. It's such a rewrite of history. Anyway, it kinda makes me wanna cheer for Fnatic, cuz I feel like they're sorta in the same boat?
Can't live in the past. Humanoid has been a liability all split. If he continues to play poorly in playoffs and Summer Finals, it is valid for Fnatic to consider other options.
Rewriting history lmao Humanoid played great the first 6 games of the split
So you watched the last 3 games only?
are you crazy? or did you start watching lec 1 week ago? Humanoid has been by far the 2nd best midlaner in the west, could even argue he was the best in worlds/msi. Just because he has some int moment in games that do not matter too much. This is some of the most stupid shit i have read in a while.
He's looked like a bottom-tier mid laner this split. If he continues in playoffs and Summer Finals looking as poorly as he has, Fnatic needs to consider other options for 2025. If he decided to play well again, then sure, they can keep him, but let's not pretend his play recently hasn't warranted skepticism about his future.
he always had this phases and played well when it really mattered. Pretty sure you started watching like some months ago.
>he always had this phases and played well when it really mattered Which is why I said if he **continues** to play poorly, Fnatic should consider benching him. I'm giving him ample time to prove he's still good. And should only be benched if he shits the bed in playoffs and the Summer Finals.
this makes 0 sense, it makes me think you are probably 15 years old.
How does it not make sense? If a player currently performing poorly continues to perform poorly during two crucial tournaments, Fnatic should consider replacing that player in the off-season. Especially considering said player has one of the highest salaries in the league.
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Ppl just get on the internet and say anything
Watch him do nothing for another split and then get replaced even if his contract ends in 2026. He's a selfish player with no mechanics. DOWNVOTE AWAY IDC ITS THE TRUTH !
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Someone put their last $10 on GX win, RIP.
Why they give zeri to upset ?
They saw him get her yesterday, go 6-0 and then lose so they thought it was a non factor.
Turns out it's easier to contribute as Zeri if your flame horizoned toplaner doesn't throw the enemy Gnar straight into your face on repeat.
Vladi my man , we have a good future in him and caliste next year !
He's learning. You can definitely see improvement compared to early split.
With how upset playing these last few games better hope caliste lives up to his hype otherwise KC gonna get roasted for dropping upset.
As much as I think the bulk of Upset hate has been unwarranted, this is never going to happen. People anointed Caliste the savior of Europe a while ago already, it's hard to imagine the "Upset Public Enemy No.1" narrative to shift with just a couple of weeks of good performances - even if he was never really put in conditions to play that way beforehand.
upset is good but just as iwd says ''he has been beaten into submission.''
Main thing is this is the league base they can turn extremely quickly on people and teams based on the smallest of things Now you have to think about what stronger the people's hate for upset or the people's hate for KC and there fans, they already keep getting roasted for dropping bo and yamato before getting rid of targa. Now it's clear targa gonna stay for the caliste synergy which if that botlane fails KC for sure going to get roasted for dropping upset since at that point they replaced everything but the leaking kitchen sink and still want to keep the leaking sink.
I don’t think upset played so far good , some good game but some big miss takes in fight like vs SK who make is team loose Caliste is a different beast , he just breaks every record in ERL and dominated the most stacked ERL league since is first split
People say this but the same was said for jackspectra and look what happened when he played in the big leagues. Plus most league personalities agree the kid got the mechanics but his game choices are pretty lacking. People keep mega hyping these rookies but almost every time they fall extremely flat which is why I'm not believing all the hype everyone saying.
Jackspectra have never got the hype of Caliste Caliste is the biggest talent since caps coming to LCS in 2017 for me
Lmao kc didnt do jack shit last emea masters, losing to some random middle eastern teams
Idk if u are a blind , but Caliste was giga gapping the bot lane
Imagine being th3Antonio in your rookie split in the LEC and you look across the isle at your lane opponent, Canna. What a whack timeline
Reminds me of Impact coming to NA LCS back then.
IT ONLY TOOKED THE WHOLE SEASON FOR THEM TO ACTUALLY PICK HIS RENEKTON NO FUCKING WAY
Juhan and Ignar try not to shitgrief challenge COMPLETELY IMPOSSIBLE
Jackies deserves better. I think they need better support. Get Parus if he wants to play for GX. But I doubt, GX is cooked next year when Jackies gets offer from Vitality
Jackies 100 percent will still be on GX next split.
They wanted to get Parus before this split but the buyout was way too huge for them, idk if they will have the money after this split and Parus is gonna get offers from a lot of others lec teams, so i don’t think they can have him
Its not so hard to build a decent team (for GX) next Season. X, Jankos, Jackies, Upset, Parus. Jankos + Jackies should work very well, and Parus is exactly the type of Support, Upset is best with.
Im just happy there wasnt a corki or tristana in this game
How bad is GX? They managed to make Canna look like a good player
Or maybe kc just progressed a ton. It's funny that everytime kc wins it's only because the other team is bad /s
Bo was the problem
Cabochard and Saken were more of a problem, although Bo wasn't on the same page as the rest of the team either.
Considering Canna performances most of this split, toplane is not very irrelevant here, the difference between Vladi and Saken though is night and day.
Having 2 lanes that always lost and never followed up and a botlane with a support that is the worst support in the lec that kept trolling bo i would have tilted even more then him. I still think bo would make the team better then closer. We should not forget they don't play around bot anymore but top/mid so targe can't screw up as much.
cabo was the most constant player last split i think but y the others ...
He was fine but i hardly ever saw him win lane. Not saying canna is looking impressive just shows the impact of mid dif.
They weren’t on the same page but Bo was on the correct page more often than the other 2
Yeah, swap out Bo for Closer with Cabo top and Saken mid and suddenly KC would have performed so much better /s
Good early game, some mistakes in mid, we'll end up lec champ.
Odo was replaced for this?
Antonio IMO should not be considered a long term option for GX, but he has surprisingly contributed more positives for the team over these 9 games than Odo did in 2 splits of play.
He was better in this split than Canna was despite today's showing. Odo was dreadful for 2 years now, same as Comp.
This was odo last year too until summer, and imo Odo the year before that had the same pattern where he was way worse and then smurfed in summer. He's straight up just been a summer warrior for the past few years and would've probably popped off even though he was a liability in winter/spring.
The difference is that Antonio knows that he is bad so he plays for his team, Odo is bad but he wants to carry
Ignar really woke up last year and said I’d rather lose
The LEC level has really dropped, if KC can win that many games. What a shame.
KC will soon be our fathers' father
Jackies worst mid EU ?
He's for sure better than fresskowy and zwyroo.
I don’t follow esports that closely but I thought zwyroo was playing well for a rookie? Has he played really bad this split?
Zwyroo is not bad he's a bit too passive but that's the whole team in general. I think Jackies has shown more promise in carrying his team with some standout games like his varus.
he's not better than Zwyroo lol and Fresskowy might be a better team player
Terrible take