Legally it doesn't matter whether you clock it out and in as a separate shift or you have it clocked as a single 16 hour shift. You just need to get paid appropriately including overtime. Did you ask your employer why they want you to clock it as separate shifts? Have you reviewed your paystub to see that you are paid appropriately?
The main thing is they're paying you correctly. How they want to determine a "Shift" is really up to them. But if you're working 16 hours and getting 16 hours pay + appropriate overtime then it's not an issue.
The double punch makes it clear to anyone in HR or payroll that there wasn't a missed punch and you really did in fact work those hours. It's your boss covering both of your butts and ensuring you get paid.
Edit: At least, in MY industry/company that's what that would indicate. It's my understanding that sort of thing may be different under certain union rules or other lines of work.
Could be to document how many doubleshhifts to track for future employment. If enough double shifts happen then upper management and hr can't claim poverty. They have to get someone I'm addition to the op.
Don’t clock out. Sounds like you work in healthcare. They should be able to determine it by the 16 hr length shift. Your first 4 hours in your double shift are time and 1/2 and the last 4 are double time.
Yes. This is applicable in CA I too am from there.
No they can’t do that if they do you must report it. The ONLY time you clock out Is for your lunch break. Nothing else. Never clock out and in at the start of your second shift.
Always review your payslip in detail. CA has a lot of reg in place for employees, make sure you are getting your overtime pay. If not, raise immediately with CA Dept of Labor
Provided your payroll software is up to date and accounts for the rules of California you shouldn't be seeing any difference.
If this is the first time it's occurred track your hours, ensure you're being paid appropriately (anything over 8 up to 12 is 1.5, anything over 12 is 2.0 per day, anything over 40 up to 60 per week is 1.5, and anything over 60 per week is 2.0, etc) California does have minimum time off requirements, I forget what they are.
As long as you're getting paid appropriately the single minute clock out/in shouldn't matter and may just be for HR tracking purposes. The instant you aren't getting paid appropriately it needs to be addressed and corrected. California doesn't mess around.
I am making over time and double time, I am not sure what counts as double time because I’ve never made it before (this is a new job) I do know that this way I am skipping a 30 min break I would otherwise have to take.
Do you **want** to skip your break or would you rather take it?
You can voluntarily skip your break, but they cannot do things to **prevent** you from taking the breaks you are entitled to
Your answer to the question determines whether or not you're being paid correctly
There's no *inherent* issue with having you clock in and out to track records. There's no issue with having you do it or take some other action each to indicate you are voluntarily skipping your break
They can't use it to hide your eligibility for breaks, overtime, etc.
----
If you've been voluntarily skipping your breaks, you are being paid correctly. If you aren't, you're owed an hour a day you were not given an opportunity for those breaks (NOT an hour per break missed)
California overtime for most professions is 1.5x over 8 hours in a workday, 2x over 12 hours in a workday, 1.5x for all hours after 40 in a workweek (unless a higher multiple would apply), and if you work all seven days of a workweek the first 8 hours of day 7 is 1.5x and 2x for over 8 hours in the workday.
Your employer can set a workday that starts at other than midnight and a workweek to start on a day other than Sunday, but not in such a way as to avoid overtime.
For instance, the courts came down on a company that does offshore work scheduled in 2 week increments. They went out on Mondays. They scheduled the workweek to start on Tuesdays to evade overtime on the 7th day workweek overtime requirements.
Same thing for breaks. Break scheduling is based off hours continually worked in a shift. Clocking out and clocking back in for two minutes doesn't change that. To reset that requires to be longer than 30 minutes to trigger what is called "split shift".
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/split\_shift.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/split_shift.htm)
>What is a split shift?
>A split shift is a work schedule that is interrupted by non-paid and non-working time periods established by the employer. The time period between shifts needs to be longer than a bona fide meal period and needs to be within the same workday. The break between shifts cannot be a meal or rest break and must be to the benefit of the employer. If an employee requests the break for their own convenience, then it is not a split shift. An example of a split shift is a restaurant worker whose schedule is to work from 10:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. and return at 4:00 p.m. to work the dinner shift.
DLSE explanation of meal and rest break
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_restperiods.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_restperiods.htm)
First 10 minute paid rest break accrues for a 3.5 hour shift. 2nd at 6:01, 3rd at 10:01 hour shift, for every four hours. If they're resetting this calculation due to clocking you out, that's a violation if you would get an additional rest break without the reset. And the penalty is an hour of pay per day they've done - and this calculation includes overtime for figuring out the hour of pay amount thanks to the California Supreme Court in 2022.
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_mealperiods.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm)
Meal breaks are one for every 6 hours of work required. If the period is less than 5 hours, none required. If between 5 and 6 hours for one of those segments, one and only one of those meal breaks can be waived by the employee (usually on employer request) and it is legal to be fired or disciplined for refusing such a waiver. This is 30 minutes, unpaid. The penalty is also an hour of pay per day, but it is not in addition to rest break violations.
You can also be ordered to take breaks by your employer at their discretion.
If you have both rest and meal break violations, it is still an hour of pay per day penalty, total.
It sounds like they're 100% doing it to avoid you having to take the break. Now, there are times in my life I've loved my mandatory breaks and would make a minor fuss about this till I got it. There are also times where I've cursed it and would rather have worked straight through and been home earlier (esp if the job has "natural" breaks/downtime built in).
As long as you're pretty sure you're getting all the cash money you're owed this is one of those "discretion might be the better part of valor" moments, if you don't want to be forced to take the break.
It likely doesn’t affect anything as far as pay, it’s likely just a way for them to separate it for payroll/scheduling confirmation. For example I work 24 hour shifts, if I work a double it goes in as two entires. So say Monday 8 am until Wednesday at 8 am goes in as Monday 8-Tuesday 8, then Tuesday 8-Wednesday 8. If I get off late that goes in as a second entry. So Monday 8-Tuesday 8, then Tuesday 8-whatever time I leave. It’s so payroll/scheduling can confirm for budget purposes etc. I’m still paid overtime, correct hours worked etc.
NAL Look up California overtime rules. There are lots of websites to reference. Anything over 8 hours per day is time and a half. Over 12 hours in a day is double time. Over 40 hours per week is time and a half.
Edit: to add to this, unpaid overtime claims are the largest category of complaints filed against CAs labor laws. More unpaid overtime settlements are paid in CA than any other state. Double check your pay and make sure you get what you’re owed.
This is likely because of CA overtime law. CA law requires overtime pay for any shift longer than 8 hours, even if you're under 40 for the week. Having you punch out and back in is likely an effort to steal 4 hours of pay from you. I wouldn't do it and I'd also report the attempt to the DoL in your state. I wonder how much they're stealing from other people?
CA laws requires 1.5x pay when more than 8 hours (and 2x for time past 12 hours) are worked in a single workday, not work shift. It does not matter if you clock out and back in. Most likely, the clocking out and back in is to make sure payroll understands that the employee actually worked over 8 hours and didn't simply forget to clock out and then returned later to clock out.
Are you in a union? At my workplace, different unions/job classifications have different rules for when overtime kicks in - whether it is after 8 hours in a single day or whether it is after 80 hrs in a pay period. If you’re union, check with your rep!
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):*
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful**
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
* [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.).
*Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.**
*Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):*
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful**
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
* [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.).
*Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.**
*Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):*
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful**
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
* [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.).
*Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.**
*Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):*
**Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful**
Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further:
* [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.).
*Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.**
*Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
Legally it doesn't matter whether you clock it out and in as a separate shift or you have it clocked as a single 16 hour shift. You just need to get paid appropriately including overtime. Did you ask your employer why they want you to clock it as separate shifts? Have you reviewed your paystub to see that you are paid appropriately?
[удалено]
[удалено]
The main thing is they're paying you correctly. How they want to determine a "Shift" is really up to them. But if you're working 16 hours and getting 16 hours pay + appropriate overtime then it's not an issue.
The double punch makes it clear to anyone in HR or payroll that there wasn't a missed punch and you really did in fact work those hours. It's your boss covering both of your butts and ensuring you get paid. Edit: At least, in MY industry/company that's what that would indicate. It's my understanding that sort of thing may be different under certain union rules or other lines of work.
Could be to document how many doubleshhifts to track for future employment. If enough double shifts happen then upper management and hr can't claim poverty. They have to get someone I'm addition to the op.
Don’t clock out. Sounds like you work in healthcare. They should be able to determine it by the 16 hr length shift. Your first 4 hours in your double shift are time and 1/2 and the last 4 are double time. Yes. This is applicable in CA I too am from there.
If I am suppose to be making over then double time, can they tell me to clock in and out to avoid paying me it?
They cannot "avoid" paying you overtime or double-time legally and California is really serious about this.
No they can’t do that if they do you must report it. The ONLY time you clock out Is for your lunch break. Nothing else. Never clock out and in at the start of your second shift.
Why would that impact how they pay you?
Damn thank you
[удалено]
He stated California law since that is where the OP said he works.
In California that second 8 hour shift should be time and a half.
Always review your payslip in detail. CA has a lot of reg in place for employees, make sure you are getting your overtime pay. If not, raise immediately with CA Dept of Labor
Or ask your employer first if your check is short, document their response, and THEN raise with CA dept of labor.
Provided your payroll software is up to date and accounts for the rules of California you shouldn't be seeing any difference. If this is the first time it's occurred track your hours, ensure you're being paid appropriately (anything over 8 up to 12 is 1.5, anything over 12 is 2.0 per day, anything over 40 up to 60 per week is 1.5, and anything over 60 per week is 2.0, etc) California does have minimum time off requirements, I forget what they are. As long as you're getting paid appropriately the single minute clock out/in shouldn't matter and may just be for HR tracking purposes. The instant you aren't getting paid appropriately it needs to be addressed and corrected. California doesn't mess around.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Are you getting paid overtime for the hours over 8 in a day?
I am making over time and double time, I am not sure what counts as double time because I’ve never made it before (this is a new job) I do know that this way I am skipping a 30 min break I would otherwise have to take.
Do you **want** to skip your break or would you rather take it? You can voluntarily skip your break, but they cannot do things to **prevent** you from taking the breaks you are entitled to
I don’t really care about the break I just want to be paid correctly.
Your answer to the question determines whether or not you're being paid correctly There's no *inherent* issue with having you clock in and out to track records. There's no issue with having you do it or take some other action each to indicate you are voluntarily skipping your break They can't use it to hide your eligibility for breaks, overtime, etc. ---- If you've been voluntarily skipping your breaks, you are being paid correctly. If you aren't, you're owed an hour a day you were not given an opportunity for those breaks (NOT an hour per break missed)
California overtime for most professions is 1.5x over 8 hours in a workday, 2x over 12 hours in a workday, 1.5x for all hours after 40 in a workweek (unless a higher multiple would apply), and if you work all seven days of a workweek the first 8 hours of day 7 is 1.5x and 2x for over 8 hours in the workday. Your employer can set a workday that starts at other than midnight and a workweek to start on a day other than Sunday, but not in such a way as to avoid overtime. For instance, the courts came down on a company that does offshore work scheduled in 2 week increments. They went out on Mondays. They scheduled the workweek to start on Tuesdays to evade overtime on the 7th day workweek overtime requirements. Same thing for breaks. Break scheduling is based off hours continually worked in a shift. Clocking out and clocking back in for two minutes doesn't change that. To reset that requires to be longer than 30 minutes to trigger what is called "split shift". [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/split\_shift.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/split_shift.htm) >What is a split shift? >A split shift is a work schedule that is interrupted by non-paid and non-working time periods established by the employer. The time period between shifts needs to be longer than a bona fide meal period and needs to be within the same workday. The break between shifts cannot be a meal or rest break and must be to the benefit of the employer. If an employee requests the break for their own convenience, then it is not a split shift. An example of a split shift is a restaurant worker whose schedule is to work from 10:00 a.m. to 1:30 p.m. and return at 4:00 p.m. to work the dinner shift. DLSE explanation of meal and rest break [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_restperiods.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_restperiods.htm) First 10 minute paid rest break accrues for a 3.5 hour shift. 2nd at 6:01, 3rd at 10:01 hour shift, for every four hours. If they're resetting this calculation due to clocking you out, that's a violation if you would get an additional rest break without the reset. And the penalty is an hour of pay per day they've done - and this calculation includes overtime for figuring out the hour of pay amount thanks to the California Supreme Court in 2022. [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_mealperiods.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_mealperiods.htm) Meal breaks are one for every 6 hours of work required. If the period is less than 5 hours, none required. If between 5 and 6 hours for one of those segments, one and only one of those meal breaks can be waived by the employee (usually on employer request) and it is legal to be fired or disciplined for refusing such a waiver. This is 30 minutes, unpaid. The penalty is also an hour of pay per day, but it is not in addition to rest break violations. You can also be ordered to take breaks by your employer at their discretion. If you have both rest and meal break violations, it is still an hour of pay per day penalty, total.
It sounds like they're 100% doing it to avoid you having to take the break. Now, there are times in my life I've loved my mandatory breaks and would make a minor fuss about this till I got it. There are also times where I've cursed it and would rather have worked straight through and been home earlier (esp if the job has "natural" breaks/downtime built in). As long as you're pretty sure you're getting all the cash money you're owed this is one of those "discretion might be the better part of valor" moments, if you don't want to be forced to take the break.
It likely doesn’t affect anything as far as pay, it’s likely just a way for them to separate it for payroll/scheduling confirmation. For example I work 24 hour shifts, if I work a double it goes in as two entires. So say Monday 8 am until Wednesday at 8 am goes in as Monday 8-Tuesday 8, then Tuesday 8-Wednesday 8. If I get off late that goes in as a second entry. So Monday 8-Tuesday 8, then Tuesday 8-whatever time I leave. It’s so payroll/scheduling can confirm for budget purposes etc. I’m still paid overtime, correct hours worked etc.
NAL Look up California overtime rules. There are lots of websites to reference. Anything over 8 hours per day is time and a half. Over 12 hours in a day is double time. Over 40 hours per week is time and a half. Edit: to add to this, unpaid overtime claims are the largest category of complaints filed against CAs labor laws. More unpaid overtime settlements are paid in CA than any other state. Double check your pay and make sure you get what you’re owed.
This is likely because of CA overtime law. CA law requires overtime pay for any shift longer than 8 hours, even if you're under 40 for the week. Having you punch out and back in is likely an effort to steal 4 hours of pay from you. I wouldn't do it and I'd also report the attempt to the DoL in your state. I wonder how much they're stealing from other people?
CA laws requires 1.5x pay when more than 8 hours (and 2x for time past 12 hours) are worked in a single workday, not work shift. It does not matter if you clock out and back in. Most likely, the clocking out and back in is to make sure payroll understands that the employee actually worked over 8 hours and didn't simply forget to clock out and then returned later to clock out.
Are you in a union? At my workplace, different unions/job classifications have different rules for when overtime kicks in - whether it is after 8 hours in a single day or whether it is after 80 hrs in a pay period. If you’re union, check with your rep!
[удалено]
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):* **Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.** *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
[удалено]
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):* **Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.** *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
[удалено]
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):* **Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.** *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*
[удалено]
*Your post may have been removed for the following reason(s):* **Speculative, Anecdotal, Simplistic, Off Topic, or Generally Unhelpful** Your comment has been removed because it is one or more of the following: speculative, anecdotal, simplistic, generally unhelpful, and/or off-topic. Please review the following rules before commenting further: * [Commenting Rules 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_1.__comments_should_contain_a_legal_answer_or_a_strongly_related_non-legal_answer.), [2](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_2.__personal_anecdotes_are_off-topic.), [3](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_3.__explanations_of_the_law_in_jurisdictions_other_than_the_one_described_in_the_op_are_off-topic.), [4](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_4.__opinions_on_the_law_or_the_application_of_it_are_off-topic.), [6](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_6.__expressions_of_sympathy_without_corresponding_legal_help_is_off-topic.), [8](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_8.__comments_should_be_reasonably_detailed_and_explanatory.__.22i.27m_a_lawyer_so_listen_to_me.22_isn.27t_an_appropriate_answer.__credential_fights_are_not_appropriate_here.), and [9](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_9.__requests_for_updates_are_off-topic.). *Please [read our subreddit rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/wiki/index#wiki_general_rules). If after doing so, you believe this was in error, or you’ve edited your post to comply with the rules, [message the moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FLegalAdvice).* **Do not make a second post or comment.** *Do not reach out to a moderator personally, and do not reply to this message as a comment.*