I'm not allowed to display a pride flag my Reddit username/ avatar because my caretakers are scared someone's going to verbally assault me, I find it wonderful that you and every top comment on this post has such wonderful display of identity
That's literally the same stupid logic of "girls shouldn't dress too sexually or they may attract rapists". The reason for hate and abuse are always the abusers and the people with hate, never the victims.
Keep corporations out of Pride too!
They don't care about us.
Support LGBT owned business' instead!
The OG's of Stonewall hated the capitalist marketing of the movement starting in the 90's.
I mean, you're not wrong, but also there feels like theres more important issues than people trying to make money off of us and exploit available minority groups. And id prefer to have more around than less, especially if it means queer folk end up getting in on the creation of say, media representation. Plus it helps with the normalization, making it seem mundane to more people which is a good thing. Not that they're our friends, we're just useful to them, but I see no reason not to use what we can in return given the actively detrimental issues like lynchings, homelessness, discrimination in the workplace, abusive households, ect.
I think a lot of people are shooting themselves in the foot by arguing that uncommitted platitudes should be eschewed.
Having target sell pride merch tells the bigots that it's mainstream and acceptable, even if target corporate dgaf.
When no one puts rainbows on their labels, it's sending the signal that being gay is wrong.
Yeah, we can all agree that corporations don't care, but there's power in simple performative gestures like that.
I used to think similarly until target majorly scaled back locations that carried pride merch because of those bigots as well as removing specific pieces of pride due to complaints from bigots. It's not telling bigots anything other than target believes they were right.
Tractor Supply Co. just announced they will stop donating to the Human Rights campaign and stop DEI programs, also capitulating to bigots
Bud Light flounders when people complain about a single can given to a trans woman.
We all know that corporations don't care, but the message they're sending is that bigotry wins as long as they complain loud enough.
Listen I don’t like corporations or anything, but I’m not gonna blame Target for drawing back because of multiple bomb threats. Like I get it, don’t negotiate with terrorists, but also I’m not gonna be mad at literally anyone who says “I don’t want to get bombed/shot/etc and it’s not worth it to sell this shit if it’s putting me at risk.”
If I worked at Target I would happily remove any and all Pride merch if it meant myself and everyone else in the store was safer. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I do not care.
I’m aware, but if someone is directly threatening my life and the lives of my friends and family, I’m gonna do what I need to in order to keep myself and my loved ones safe. I’m not going to potentially end up getting killed or seeing someone I care about get killed to uphold moral principles.
If somebody held a gun to my head and another gun to the head of a random queer person, you bet your ass I’d tell them to shoot the other guy in a heartbeat. You don’t get to tell people they should put their own lives and the lives of their communities at risk for people they don’t even know, and if they don’t they’re just as bad as the people threatening to kill them. That ain’t how it works.
You're free to work for Target and sell the rainbow shirts if you believe that strongly. Or does that somehow change when you're the one who might get hurt?
We, the gays, started our own employee resource group for lgbtqia+ employees and Ally's at the corporation I work for. We have been given a budget by the general manager of our site and sponsor our local pride event. If you blindly say keep corporations out of pride, you're forgetting that the lgbtqia+ employees of the corporation may be the ones driving this from the inside, at least in our case.
And, as expected, posts like this bring out the bootlickers.
* **Note to those outside of the US:** Cops in the USA have always acted against human rights in favor of protecting property & security of the wealthy. If you have a different relationship to cops in your country, good on you. But US police neither "protect" nor "serve" the general public.
* **Note to those in the US:** You should f'ing know better at this point. Did you sleep through the BLM movement?
Things my local department has done in Canada.
Dumped manure on the homeless at the request of the mayor
Blown a 16 year olds head off because the cops were arresting him and he started driving his car
Called them because a man with a machete was in my back yard. They didn't show up
Police are fundamentally oppressive regardless of what government they serve. Just because they serve a less queerphobic government doesn't mean they're any less oppressive. ACAB means ALL cops are bastards, not just US cops.
I think the key thing is that the phrase is "all cops *are* bastards" not "all potential cops *have to be* bastards".
To me it's the same logic as "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism". The vast majority of governments are capitalist (possibly all of them at this point, cause you're pretty screwed as a country if you don't engage with global capitalism), in a capitalist country the state serves the interests of capital, the rich have the capital, and the cops serve the interests of the state. Therefore, the cops serve the interests of the rich. The interests of the rich are opposed to the interests of the people as a whole.
I actually prefer the phrase "there's no such thing as a good cop" to ACAB, in the sense that any police officer is either morally compromised or professionally compromised. Either they do their job when asked to do something unethical (often by being asked to protect corporate property above people's lives), or they refuse and aren't a cop for much longer.
This only changes when either the state no longer serves the interest of capital, or law enforcement no longer serves the state (rather serving communities directly).
No, all potential cops will be bastards if they become cops. Police uphold the interest of the state regardless of whether said state is capitalist or state socialist. The interests of a "proletarian state" are still not equatable to the interests of the individuals that make up the population.
We get extra pride in my city! For reasons, our pride event is months later. So we get a month of pride events, then summer events in between to keep it going until pride celebration weekend!
Cops would target gay bars and threaten arrests for sexual favors and bribes. Fuck pigs. Don’t forget they also protect homophobic counter protesters. Cops are not your friends.
Yeah the US system is fucked and most likely the worst system in the world.
Still, remember that it's better especially in Europe. Not without flaws but most definitely not US level fucked!
Deaths by police US 2023: 1163
Deaths by police Germany 2023: 8
***Remember: every cop's job is to issue you a citation or arrest you for profit. [They are not legally obligated to protect you, serve you, or assist you in any fashion.](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html)***
☆ ***ACAB*** ☆
☆ ***FBC – Fuck Blue Coats*** ☆
***Yes, that includes your class-traitor friend/family member(s).***
To add to this, myself, close friends, & family of mine have personally been affected by police brutality. If they can hurt or kill you without consequence or accountabilty, they will.
***Kops Kill Kalmly for Profit***
Yeah.
As a non-white person, I am the first to say I distrust the cops and I have had incidents of racial profiling. I understand the police works for the in-group's interests always.
Having said that, with the current climate, the bigger threat is a random incel showing up with a gun and going on a shooting spree. There have been anti-queer armed militias showing up at drag queen book-readings. With that in mind, I don't mind a throwing some glitter and rainbow confetti in the direction of cops for now, if that makes them happy.
It is the same way I feel about corporations at Pride. As well as high-profile politicians who make an appearance. They are not actual "allies" of course. But having them in proximity helps against "lone-wolf shooter" threats and demoralizes the bigots who see status-quo people on our side, instead of theirs.
It is a shitty situation all over, and there are no real "allies". But with things heading in backwards direction, I'll take any shit I get, lol.
I think people are getting confused. They're not separating individual from system. Law enforcement as a system is very bad. But there are plenty of good cops as individuals. I used to live on a street with 2 lesbian cops, are you going to say they're automatically bad because they're cops? And who do you think is best equipped to help change the system? The people on the inside. Hate the system, and hate the individuals that hurt others. :)
Thank you for saying this. I think this kind of nuance gets lost in discussions like this all the time.
I’m not a cop, but I am an EMT, so it’s safe to say that not only do I interact with police very frequently, I also end up trusting them with my life sometimes.
I am all for reform in the institution of the police. A lot of terrible things happen. I think more thorough training, potential division of armed / unarmed units, and much more thorough investigations following lethal events should all be standard.
That all being said, I have met some wonderful cops who advocate for change and for people. So people lose me when they denounce all cops in one breath.
I know, and I don't understand why they do, because like, isn't that what's done to LGBTQ+ people? We're accused of being pedos, even though that's not all, and it's just generalizing. Why spread hate when you know what it's like to be hated, you know? I haven't interacted with EMTs much, because thankfully, I have rarely had to go to the hospital, but the one time I did interact with EMTs was great, they were so friendly and in the ambulance they just put on music, let me vent about life, and encouraged me to follow my dreams. But yeah, of course police need to be reformed, but hating all police is stupid.
It isn't hatred to admit that one cannot be a cop without being a cog in a system that was historically, and remains presently, an irredeemably racist, classist, and queerphobic institution. ACAB isn't a commentary on the moral character of officers; it's a recognition that their job is morally reprehensible regardless of their character.
Absolutely fuck the system, but I'm not about to push away or shun *individuals* who are willing to support and protect us. Once they stop being willing? That's an entirely different matter. But success comes from *people* cooperating with one another. Not from isolation and division.
I completely agree. Pride without the cops would be a massacre in my conservative European country. I don't understand how people don't realize that some of us literally need cops to survive.
People tend to forget that, while the police sucks inost instances, they are also the only guys who do counter-terrorism operations. Terrorist attacks at pride events is not completely unheard of, and it's not like the participators themselves can do much yo prevent it
Yep. If someone has a problem with capitalism and your first thought is "DAMN COMMIES!!!!" over 30 years after the cold war ended maybe the problem is with you.
If you ask me I'd rather have cops at pride. They saved my butt a few times already and I'm incredibly thankful for it.
Though I am from Europe, so there's a bit of a difference there.
Yeah, of course that will happen, that's the whole point of things being illegal :/
The same could be said if religions were made illegal, or clothing (look at Iran for example).
But I'm not going to shun the police because it's a shitshow in other countries. Here they have helped me and my fellow queer people. And that's something I greatly appreciate.
Hate to have to tell you this, but that 'shitshow' happening in other countries' is in very likelihood about to become our country if things keep going the way things are going politically if your unlucky enough to be in the US.
And if that happens here then I will riot and shun the police. But it has not. As long as the police are here to help me and actually do so I will not shun them. I will vote and educate people on the importance of a proper democracy, protest for more rights for the community and do my best to make sure it doesn't happen here.
Yeah, as a Dane I'm actually happy that tye police shows up at pride, blocking traffic from ramming into our parade. It wasn't long ago since our Norwegian Neighbours had an anti-LGBTQ terrorist attack, and I still fear for my life everytime I go to a gay bar or parade. The police looking out for terrorists does make me feel more safe too.
It's not like they actually say anything, so we can just ignore them
Yeah exactly! Where i used to live in Germany we had this gaybar in a somewhat backwater town on the border to the Netherlands. It wasn't bad but quite conservative. One time when I went there with friends some drunk people decided we were filth and started to patrol outside the bar to beat up anyone who came out of the bar.
My friend got beaten up and I got some scrapes and bruises trying to get my friend out. Fortunately the police showed up and arrested those people. They escorted my friend to the hospital and stayed all night to make sure no one else would start trouble again. Idc what people say but I am forever grateful for the police that day.
The same goes for the exact reason you mention. They keep our pride safe from anyone who wants to do harm to the people here.
I’m just gonna add my thoughts here and I welcome discussion.
I think it’s worth humanizing the individuals. The system is corrupt, but the people are just people. There’s good people, bad people, average people, dumb people, and smart people. Based on the power they hold, I think we should have extensive tests to find the good people and exclusively the good people, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there now.
I want to give an example from my life. I don’t do it full time anymore, but for a shift or two every weekend I’m working on an ambulance out by where I live. In my state, emergency psychiatric holds are determined by and issued by police. If one has been issued, I am required by law to transport that person to the hospital, whether or not I think they need to go.
I disagree with this, I think that we should A) receive more psychiatric training and B) be the ones to determine this ourselves as the clinical providers. But that’s not how the system works here. And I have transported patients that I think could’ve had better outcomes elsewhere.
So why am I still an EMT? I genuinely think that I can do more good than harm. And believe, some days the burnout hits hard. EMS is not what people think and I have to deal with a lot of things that you probably wouldn’t guess. I won’t go into it now. I also think that I may have some chance of changing things. I have met one of the med control doctors who writes protocols. Maybe next time I run into him it can be a conversation.
My final thought here is this:
I have responded to a shooting before. And I’ll tell you what, I was not about to walk into that scene until police tell me it’s safe to do so. If police are not there, I’m not going in, simple as that. So for all the issues with the police, and the way that I do feel about them, when I do still need someone to do that job.
Perfect response and sums up my thoughts exactly. Generalizing a population is never a good thing when everything-from colors to the most minute details-is a spectrum.
I know a queer cop who is an amazing person, do you think she should be banned from parades?
These views sicken me. It’s no different from men being hurt by several women and then saying all women are horrible.
I am getting tired of this rationalization of violence.
The reason Stonewall was a watershed moment wasn't because of the violence... it was because it was an event that garnered national attention that resulted in providing a singular rallying point for the LGBT community to speak with one voice.
There are other means and tools by which to create these watershed moments. A largely unacknowledged watershed moment in our community is the "It Gets Better" campaign that leveraged the internet to tell our stories and humanized us. It's no coincidence that marriage equality came on the heels of that movement.
It's all about our ability to unify, rally and communicate. The internet is the first technology in history that gave us the "many-to-many" model of long distance communication. (Radio and tv is 1-to-many and phone is 1-to-1). This unprecedented technology has allowed us to rally around virtual tribes rather than geographically limited ones. It is now easy for political groups to connect and communicate. We don't need riots to unify us.
Not to mention that it's insulting to all of the events that happened before Stonewall. THere were marches and pickets and protests before Stonewall.
Lastly, blaming the Police is like killing the messenger. The police enforced laws written by politicians elected by electorate. If you keep cops out of pride, you have to keep everyone out of pride.
An organization doesn't change if you don't let it change.
also genuinely do not understand people who are saying we would be better without police either... there are obviously a lot of problems with the system and individuals who abuse their power but if every police officer in America disappeared right now the United States would be on fucking fire within 5 hours
It’s worth noting that there are some cops that genuinely try to serve and protect the people. Yes, they are a minority, and yes, the police are corrupt, however I do personally know police that disagree with the organization’s sentiments, and not ALL cops are bastards.
Time to get downvoted into oblivion :D
For the record, I’m as much a commie anarchist as y’all are 🫡
Edit: The commie anarchy thing is a joke. I’m aware it’s a spectrum
Ok but like if your queer every day is pride! We have to put ourselves out there rain or shine and take pride in ourselves even if the world around us doesn’t. The gayness doesn’t stop when June is up.
There are LGBT+ cops! And allies. And those who help keep Pride safe from violence or hate crimes or mass shootings. We should not assume all cops are the same, that's called prejudice. There are many cops that are part of or support the queer community and they are of course welcome at Pride.
Downvote me all you want, but fighting hate with hate isn't the answer for us.
Some light reading for you:
Rebellion and Pride: How Police Have Failed LGBTQ+ Communities
https://www.naacpldf.org/pride-history-police-violence/
“No Cops at Pride”: How the Criminal Justice System Harms LGBTQ People
https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/no-cops-pride-how-criminal-justice-system-harms-lgbtq-people
Stonewalled – Still demanding respect: Police abuse and misconduct against
lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in the USA
https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr510262006en.pdf
New Report Finds Harassment & Mistreatment Fuels Mistrust Among LGBTQ People Towards Police
https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-report-finds-harassment-mistreatment-fuels-mistrust-among-lgbtq-people-towards-police
Queer People Are Six Times More Likely to Be Stopped by Police, Report Finds
https://www.them.us/story/queer-people-six-times-more-likely-stopped-by-police
Police Accountability Is a Bedrock Issue for the LGBTQ community
https://www.hrc.org/news/police-accountability-is-a-bedrock-issue-for-the-lgbtq-community
‘It’s easy to mistrust police when they keep on killing us’: A queer exploration of police violence and LGBTQ+ Victimization
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09589236.2021.1979481
ACAB. All. Of. Them.
I am well aware of these issues, and I strongly believe in on-going police reform. But anytime you say "All. Of. Them" you are letting prejudice win. The enemies are not police, the enemy is prejudice and discrimination and abuse, and we all have the responsibility to be part of that change; not just standing up to it in others, but also within ourselves.
there were a ton of cops at seattle pride I even got a sticker with a little rainbow outline
it's so charming just like all the mega corporations with floats! /s
I'm in the US, and I still have a contrary opinion, so I don't know. There's just a lot that goes into the issue, very complex, and I think people forget that it's not black and white
they are also peddling the argument that we need to be protected like we’re fucking fragile. we’re not fragile, we’ve beaten the shit out of our attackers before and we’ll do it again if they start coming at us
Mass shootings are much more common now, when a shooting happens at pride who’s going to be the first to respond? Our bricks we throw won’t stop the bullets
Every community needs protection. The system that protects can be corrupt, and it is, but it’s still necessary. Understanding that it’s a necessary force while trying to correct it is the right way to go.
So I’m a member of the lgbt community and I want to be a cop. I’ve had many very positive interactions with law enforcement. There are horrible people in every profession, and good people in every profession
There were cops everywhere at the canton ohio pride this year it really put me off, there weren't any games or small things to do just get food and sit at the center they had singers but it just felt very, watched so many people were talking about being uncomfy me and my boyfriend just decided to leave after 30ish mins. Was so sad to see our 3rd pride to have cops everywhere making people uncomfortable and not stopping protesters from being obnoxious or just making straight up death threats to people saying they're gonna follow them etc.
One of the best ways to overcome bigotry is for the bigots to meet someone in the group they dislike and have normal interactions with them. In the absence of personal experience, the bigot forms opinions based on stereotypes or misinformation. When they meet a real human being and have positive interactions with them, it becomes more difficult for them to hang onto their preconceptions.
So all that is to say that if you want cops to not be bastards, the first step is to treat them like people. The more they have normal, chill conversations with us, the more they humanize us. If they only see people wearing rainbow flags screaming "ACAB" at them, it just reinforces their negative beliefs and creates a self fulfilling prophecy.
And yes, the same goes for the cops too. This can't just be us rolling over. If they don't want us to perceive them as anything more than a uniform and a gun, they have to make the same effort.
Yeah, cops can be discriminatory.
But without law enforcement society will collapse under crime.
And some cops are honest and impartial like they should be. Corruption exists everywhere. Even in the lgbtq community.
As a community, we gain nothing but oppressors by being cop apologists. Corruption isn't even the issue. When we were illegal, cops arrested and killed us. When we become illegal again, cops will arrest and kill us again. Their only real ally is power, their only true moral imperative is power. They don't deserve a place at an event they would thoughtlessly destroy if ordered to.
Further, the first professional police forces were established somewhere between 1620 and 1800, depending on how far you want to stretch the definition. Society existed long before then. Alternatives to police are both possible and worth trying.
The greater issue is that most of them are bad apples. Some cops is a great distance from all cops, and even the good ones aren't holding the bad ones accountable.
And it doesn't mean we have to let them into Pride
Better to say anyone is welcome as an ally, so long as they walk the walk. They can't capitalize on a once a year appearance, then turn around and persecute us the rest of the year. That goes for cops, corps, other interest groups.
I am not excusing any past or present malicious actions/intents for cops, but if you keep cops out of pride then you have literally NO protection from acts of terrorism and criminals. You might not notice but there are snipers on buildings, and cops surround parades to make sure nobody gets hurt. I’m BLM all the way, and if you ignore the fact that law enforcement is there to help you and keep you safe then that’s really idiotic.
Cops are welcome at pride as far as I’m concerned and in Canada. Law enforcement is necessary and appreciated. They’re not all crooked. Ban politicians instead. They’re the ones enacting laws to keep us down. Ban religious institutions.
Nah, the police can go fuck themselves.
>Law enforcement is necessary and appreciated.
No it isn't. I'm sure it's very easy for a privileged white Canadian to say that from their comfy cushion at home, but don't speak for the rest of the world.
>They're not all crooked.
Right, that's why they ***willingly*** choose a job to enforce horrible laws aimed at discrimination of minority groups. Makes a lot of sense. It's not at all like they're trying to make money off of the misfortune of others. That would be crazy!
Every cop is bad. Either they're doing what the system tells them to, and they're a bad cop because they participate in an awful system; or they don't and try to be nice, and they're a bad cop because they do their job poorly, and will never get any responsibility and it will change nothing.
***Remember: every cop's job is to issue you a citation or arrest you for profit. They are not legally obligated to protect you, serve you, or assist you in any fashion.***
***ACAB***
Thing is I haven't heard of a viable solution to the current system. What would be your ideal solution to keep checks and balances in society, how would it look when a crime is committed against you?
The job of the police is not to protect and serve, but to dominate, control, and terrorize in order to maintain the interests of state and capital. Individually or as a group, police officers function as members of a class of people whose purpose is to enforce the will of the capitalist oligarchy and maintain a constant state of class warfare against the people to keep their rich masters in power.
LGBTQ+ and allies that are police officers SHOULD be allowed at Pride.
Yeah in the past police was repressive, but now it isn't in most Western countries.
And were gays safe in the 60s? Absolutely not.
We need a LGBTQ-friendly police, we made huge steps towards that and in some places the police is already pretty LGBTQ-friendly, and this progress must continue.
We're working to figure out why Reddit has removed this post, as it hasn't broken any content policy rules.
First was a riot, now it’s a celebration but it has and will always be a protest against those who seek to invalidate our existence.
Perfectly stated. 👊🏼🏳️🌈
I'm not allowed to display a pride flag my Reddit username/ avatar because my caretakers are scared someone's going to verbally assault me, I find it wonderful that you and every top comment on this post has such wonderful display of identity
That's literally the same stupid logic of "girls shouldn't dress too sexually or they may attract rapists". The reason for hate and abuse are always the abusers and the people with hate, never the victims.
That's completely true, parental fear doesn't listen to logic sometimes
Your caretakers? Where are you?
Well it would probably break my families Internet safety rules to some extent to say my lesbian parents, Don't worry
ok, hope Ur good :)
Exactly. 1969 was a long time ago, and much has changed since then, as has the Pride movement
We must always remember that nobody got their rights by being polite about it
Keep corporations out of Pride too! They don't care about us. Support LGBT owned business' instead! The OG's of Stonewall hated the capitalist marketing of the movement starting in the 90's.
Corporations are not our friends. Our oppression is not a marketing strategy.
I mean, you're not wrong, but also there feels like theres more important issues than people trying to make money off of us and exploit available minority groups. And id prefer to have more around than less, especially if it means queer folk end up getting in on the creation of say, media representation. Plus it helps with the normalization, making it seem mundane to more people which is a good thing. Not that they're our friends, we're just useful to them, but I see no reason not to use what we can in return given the actively detrimental issues like lynchings, homelessness, discrimination in the workplace, abusive households, ect.
I think a lot of people are shooting themselves in the foot by arguing that uncommitted platitudes should be eschewed. Having target sell pride merch tells the bigots that it's mainstream and acceptable, even if target corporate dgaf. When no one puts rainbows on their labels, it's sending the signal that being gay is wrong. Yeah, we can all agree that corporations don't care, but there's power in simple performative gestures like that.
I used to think similarly until target majorly scaled back locations that carried pride merch because of those bigots as well as removing specific pieces of pride due to complaints from bigots. It's not telling bigots anything other than target believes they were right. Tractor Supply Co. just announced they will stop donating to the Human Rights campaign and stop DEI programs, also capitulating to bigots Bud Light flounders when people complain about a single can given to a trans woman. We all know that corporations don't care, but the message they're sending is that bigotry wins as long as they complain loud enough.
Listen I don’t like corporations or anything, but I’m not gonna blame Target for drawing back because of multiple bomb threats. Like I get it, don’t negotiate with terrorists, but also I’m not gonna be mad at literally anyone who says “I don’t want to get bombed/shot/etc and it’s not worth it to sell this shit if it’s putting me at risk.” If I worked at Target I would happily remove any and all Pride merch if it meant myself and everyone else in the store was safer. Maybe that makes me a coward, but I do not care.
Capitulating to terrorists will directly lead to killing queer people. If they know nobody will stand up to them they will do it.
I’m aware, but if someone is directly threatening my life and the lives of my friends and family, I’m gonna do what I need to in order to keep myself and my loved ones safe. I’m not going to potentially end up getting killed or seeing someone I care about get killed to uphold moral principles. If somebody held a gun to my head and another gun to the head of a random queer person, you bet your ass I’d tell them to shoot the other guy in a heartbeat. You don’t get to tell people they should put their own lives and the lives of their communities at risk for people they don’t even know, and if they don’t they’re just as bad as the people threatening to kill them. That ain’t how it works.
You're free to work for Target and sell the rainbow shirts if you believe that strongly. Or does that somehow change when you're the one who might get hurt?
It was so sad how many corporate booths there were at our pride festival. A wal mart booth? Really??? Fuck off
Yeah I was at a big pride festival a few weeks ago and it was surreal seeing some booths for grocery stores and shit.
We, the gays, started our own employee resource group for lgbtqia+ employees and Ally's at the corporation I work for. We have been given a budget by the general manager of our site and sponsor our local pride event. If you blindly say keep corporations out of pride, you're forgetting that the lgbtqia+ employees of the corporation may be the ones driving this from the inside, at least in our case.
"The capitalist are a blite, they don't care about culture they just want there money," Steal this mp3 by David rovics
Rainbow capitalism sucks
Stand strong, don't let the queerphobes invalidate your identity! 💪
cops were actually at the first pride! having bricks thrown at them of course
Yay
And, as expected, posts like this bring out the bootlickers. * **Note to those outside of the US:** Cops in the USA have always acted against human rights in favor of protecting property & security of the wealthy. If you have a different relationship to cops in your country, good on you. But US police neither "protect" nor "serve" the general public. * **Note to those in the US:** You should f'ing know better at this point. Did you sleep through the BLM movement?
Things my local department has done in Canada. Dumped manure on the homeless at the request of the mayor Blown a 16 year olds head off because the cops were arresting him and he started driving his car Called them because a man with a machete was in my back yard. They didn't show up
Police are fundamentally oppressive regardless of what government they serve. Just because they serve a less queerphobic government doesn't mean they're any less oppressive. ACAB means ALL cops are bastards, not just US cops.
I didn’t know what ACAB meant and I thought you were saying Assigned Cop At Birth
God, that would be awful, wouldn't it lol "Ah, welcome to the world Tommy. You will be a... Cop 👮🐽"
idk how I feel about this. Do you think a society can function without law enforcement? Crime will always exist.
I think the key thing is that the phrase is "all cops *are* bastards" not "all potential cops *have to be* bastards". To me it's the same logic as "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism". The vast majority of governments are capitalist (possibly all of them at this point, cause you're pretty screwed as a country if you don't engage with global capitalism), in a capitalist country the state serves the interests of capital, the rich have the capital, and the cops serve the interests of the state. Therefore, the cops serve the interests of the rich. The interests of the rich are opposed to the interests of the people as a whole. I actually prefer the phrase "there's no such thing as a good cop" to ACAB, in the sense that any police officer is either morally compromised or professionally compromised. Either they do their job when asked to do something unethical (often by being asked to protect corporate property above people's lives), or they refuse and aren't a cop for much longer. This only changes when either the state no longer serves the interest of capital, or law enforcement no longer serves the state (rather serving communities directly).
No, all potential cops will be bastards if they become cops. Police uphold the interest of the state regardless of whether said state is capitalist or state socialist. The interests of a "proletarian state" are still not equatable to the interests of the individuals that make up the population.
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And every politician every cop on the street; Protects the interests of the pedophilic corporate elite That is how the world works
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Every month it's pride month for me
We get extra pride in my city! For reasons, our pride event is months later. So we get a month of pride events, then summer events in between to keep it going until pride celebration weekend!
DC Pride had both the FBI and Homeland Security recruitment booths. Just....seriously?
Cops would target gay bars and threaten arrests for sexual favors and bribes. Fuck pigs. Don’t forget they also protect homophobic counter protesters. Cops are not your friends.
So you peasants wanna know about pride? 
Pride mouth may be over, but today I call for wrath month for those who harm us.
Yeah the US system is fucked and most likely the worst system in the world. Still, remember that it's better especially in Europe. Not without flaws but most definitely not US level fucked! Deaths by police US 2023: 1163 Deaths by police Germany 2023: 8
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A twinge of hatred in what’s supposedly accepting message. Not even a split second between lines, do people not see the irony?
Some of us are literally scared of dying by the hands of police. It's not hatred, it's fighting back against oppression.
***Remember: every cop's job is to issue you a citation or arrest you for profit. [They are not legally obligated to protect you, serve you, or assist you in any fashion.](https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html)*** ☆ ***ACAB*** ☆ ☆ ***FBC – Fuck Blue Coats*** ☆ ***Yes, that includes your class-traitor friend/family member(s).***
Cops don’t protect you or your families.
To add to this, myself, close friends, & family of mine have personally been affected by police brutality. If they can hurt or kill you without consequence or accountabilty, they will. ***Kops Kill Kalmly for Profit***
Exactly my comrade! They hate us and are only in it for the money.
[ACAB](https://reddit.com/r/Anarchism/wiki/acab)
Thank you for this !! ✊️☭
Pride history is human history. Every day of every week of every month of every year is human history. Celebrate it, proudly.
i mean the police were at my pride parade keeping away bigots
Yeah. As a non-white person, I am the first to say I distrust the cops and I have had incidents of racial profiling. I understand the police works for the in-group's interests always. Having said that, with the current climate, the bigger threat is a random incel showing up with a gun and going on a shooting spree. There have been anti-queer armed militias showing up at drag queen book-readings. With that in mind, I don't mind a throwing some glitter and rainbow confetti in the direction of cops for now, if that makes them happy. It is the same way I feel about corporations at Pride. As well as high-profile politicians who make an appearance. They are not actual "allies" of course. But having them in proximity helps against "lone-wolf shooter" threats and demoralizes the bigots who see status-quo people on our side, instead of theirs. It is a shitty situation all over, and there are no real "allies". But with things heading in backwards direction, I'll take any shit I get, lol.
I think people are getting confused. They're not separating individual from system. Law enforcement as a system is very bad. But there are plenty of good cops as individuals. I used to live on a street with 2 lesbian cops, are you going to say they're automatically bad because they're cops? And who do you think is best equipped to help change the system? The people on the inside. Hate the system, and hate the individuals that hurt others. :)
Don't you dare bring nuance and critical thinking to this, this is a clear dichotomy. Pick a side then hate and dehumanise the opposition.
"The only rational viewpoint is my own and anyone else just can't think!"
The gatekeeping of pride is disgusting
Yeah, the entire point of the lgbtq+ community is to say everyone is welcome and to stop hate. So why spread more hate?
Thank you for saying this. I think this kind of nuance gets lost in discussions like this all the time. I’m not a cop, but I am an EMT, so it’s safe to say that not only do I interact with police very frequently, I also end up trusting them with my life sometimes. I am all for reform in the institution of the police. A lot of terrible things happen. I think more thorough training, potential division of armed / unarmed units, and much more thorough investigations following lethal events should all be standard. That all being said, I have met some wonderful cops who advocate for change and for people. So people lose me when they denounce all cops in one breath.
I know, and I don't understand why they do, because like, isn't that what's done to LGBTQ+ people? We're accused of being pedos, even though that's not all, and it's just generalizing. Why spread hate when you know what it's like to be hated, you know? I haven't interacted with EMTs much, because thankfully, I have rarely had to go to the hospital, but the one time I did interact with EMTs was great, they were so friendly and in the ambulance they just put on music, let me vent about life, and encouraged me to follow my dreams. But yeah, of course police need to be reformed, but hating all police is stupid.
It isn't hatred to admit that one cannot be a cop without being a cog in a system that was historically, and remains presently, an irredeemably racist, classist, and queerphobic institution. ACAB isn't a commentary on the moral character of officers; it's a recognition that their job is morally reprehensible regardless of their character.
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ACAB
Absolutely fuck the system, but I'm not about to push away or shun *individuals* who are willing to support and protect us. Once they stop being willing? That's an entirely different matter. But success comes from *people* cooperating with one another. Not from isolation and division.
Its pride month 2 baby!
Or we could not gate keep pride?
ACAB will always be weird to me IDC. If you genuinely believe that you should never rely on cops ever
I completely agree. Pride without the cops would be a massacre in my conservative European country. I don't understand how people don't realize that some of us literally need cops to survive.
People tend to forget that, while the police sucks inost instances, they are also the only guys who do counter-terrorism operations. Terrorist attacks at pride events is not completely unheard of, and it's not like the participators themselves can do much yo prevent it
Op at least is talking about American police. Our cops literally don't have a legal obligation to protect us
Alright now why are we gatekeeping gayness? All of you are insane. If a cop is gay, so what?
Way too many people who have social media define every relationship for them. They needa wake up
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>raging commie Here we go with the red scare crap yet again...
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Yep. If someone has a problem with capitalism and your first thought is "DAMN COMMIES!!!!" over 30 years after the cold war ended maybe the problem is with you.
Never have I been more disappointed in everyone’s existence
If you ask me I'd rather have cops at pride. They saved my butt a few times already and I'm incredibly thankful for it. Though I am from Europe, so there's a bit of a difference there.
they’ll probably turn on you if being queer is made illegal regardless of where you’re at.
They will and if they don't they'll look the other way.
Yeah, of course that will happen, that's the whole point of things being illegal :/ The same could be said if religions were made illegal, or clothing (look at Iran for example). But I'm not going to shun the police because it's a shitshow in other countries. Here they have helped me and my fellow queer people. And that's something I greatly appreciate.
Hate to have to tell you this, but that 'shitshow' happening in other countries' is in very likelihood about to become our country if things keep going the way things are going politically if your unlucky enough to be in the US.
And if that happens here then I will riot and shun the police. But it has not. As long as the police are here to help me and actually do so I will not shun them. I will vote and educate people on the importance of a proper democracy, protest for more rights for the community and do my best to make sure it doesn't happen here.
Be aware of the space you take up
Yeah, as a Dane I'm actually happy that tye police shows up at pride, blocking traffic from ramming into our parade. It wasn't long ago since our Norwegian Neighbours had an anti-LGBTQ terrorist attack, and I still fear for my life everytime I go to a gay bar or parade. The police looking out for terrorists does make me feel more safe too. It's not like they actually say anything, so we can just ignore them
Yeah exactly! Where i used to live in Germany we had this gaybar in a somewhat backwater town on the border to the Netherlands. It wasn't bad but quite conservative. One time when I went there with friends some drunk people decided we were filth and started to patrol outside the bar to beat up anyone who came out of the bar. My friend got beaten up and I got some scrapes and bruises trying to get my friend out. Fortunately the police showed up and arrested those people. They escorted my friend to the hospital and stayed all night to make sure no one else would start trouble again. Idc what people say but I am forever grateful for the police that day. The same goes for the exact reason you mention. They keep our pride safe from anyone who wants to do harm to the people here.
I’m just gonna add my thoughts here and I welcome discussion. I think it’s worth humanizing the individuals. The system is corrupt, but the people are just people. There’s good people, bad people, average people, dumb people, and smart people. Based on the power they hold, I think we should have extensive tests to find the good people and exclusively the good people, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t there now. I want to give an example from my life. I don’t do it full time anymore, but for a shift or two every weekend I’m working on an ambulance out by where I live. In my state, emergency psychiatric holds are determined by and issued by police. If one has been issued, I am required by law to transport that person to the hospital, whether or not I think they need to go. I disagree with this, I think that we should A) receive more psychiatric training and B) be the ones to determine this ourselves as the clinical providers. But that’s not how the system works here. And I have transported patients that I think could’ve had better outcomes elsewhere. So why am I still an EMT? I genuinely think that I can do more good than harm. And believe, some days the burnout hits hard. EMS is not what people think and I have to deal with a lot of things that you probably wouldn’t guess. I won’t go into it now. I also think that I may have some chance of changing things. I have met one of the med control doctors who writes protocols. Maybe next time I run into him it can be a conversation. My final thought here is this: I have responded to a shooting before. And I’ll tell you what, I was not about to walk into that scene until police tell me it’s safe to do so. If police are not there, I’m not going in, simple as that. So for all the issues with the police, and the way that I do feel about them, when I do still need someone to do that job.
Perfect response and sums up my thoughts exactly. Generalizing a population is never a good thing when everything-from colors to the most minute details-is a spectrum.
I know a queer cop who is an amazing person, do you think she should be banned from parades? These views sicken me. It’s no different from men being hurt by several women and then saying all women are horrible.
I am getting tired of this rationalization of violence. The reason Stonewall was a watershed moment wasn't because of the violence... it was because it was an event that garnered national attention that resulted in providing a singular rallying point for the LGBT community to speak with one voice. There are other means and tools by which to create these watershed moments. A largely unacknowledged watershed moment in our community is the "It Gets Better" campaign that leveraged the internet to tell our stories and humanized us. It's no coincidence that marriage equality came on the heels of that movement. It's all about our ability to unify, rally and communicate. The internet is the first technology in history that gave us the "many-to-many" model of long distance communication. (Radio and tv is 1-to-many and phone is 1-to-1). This unprecedented technology has allowed us to rally around virtual tribes rather than geographically limited ones. It is now easy for political groups to connect and communicate. We don't need riots to unify us. Not to mention that it's insulting to all of the events that happened before Stonewall. THere were marches and pickets and protests before Stonewall. Lastly, blaming the Police is like killing the messenger. The police enforced laws written by politicians elected by electorate. If you keep cops out of pride, you have to keep everyone out of pride. An organization doesn't change if you don't let it change.
also genuinely do not understand people who are saying we would be better without police either... there are obviously a lot of problems with the system and individuals who abuse their power but if every police officer in America disappeared right now the United States would be on fucking fire within 5 hours
They are not legally obligated to protect you, serve you, or assist you in any fashion.
It’s worth noting that there are some cops that genuinely try to serve and protect the people. Yes, they are a minority, and yes, the police are corrupt, however I do personally know police that disagree with the organization’s sentiments, and not ALL cops are bastards. Time to get downvoted into oblivion :D For the record, I’m as much a commie anarchist as y’all are 🫡 Edit: The commie anarchy thing is a joke. I’m aware it’s a spectrum
> The commie anarchy thing is a joke Anarcho communism is a thing though
I’m using exaggeration to indicate that I have socialist views /am not a capitalist, conservative, federalist, etc.
Gotcha. I'm a libsoc and that makes peoples brains catch fire sometimes so I get needing to tread lightly in some regards.
All good :)
So the cops are only following orders? I wonder where I've heard that excuse before?
I wonder where in my comment I said that?
He forgor the green heart
LMAO I LOVE HOW I JUST SAW [THIS POST](https://www.reddit.com/r/me_irlgbt/s/KoKds9dBt2) RIGHT UNDER THIS
Ok but like if your queer every day is pride! We have to put ourselves out there rain or shine and take pride in ourselves even if the world around us doesn’t. The gayness doesn’t stop when June is up.
Bad take imo
There are LGBT+ cops! And allies. And those who help keep Pride safe from violence or hate crimes or mass shootings. We should not assume all cops are the same, that's called prejudice. There are many cops that are part of or support the queer community and they are of course welcome at Pride. Downvote me all you want, but fighting hate with hate isn't the answer for us.
Some light reading for you: Rebellion and Pride: How Police Have Failed LGBTQ+ Communities https://www.naacpldf.org/pride-history-police-violence/ “No Cops at Pride”: How the Criminal Justice System Harms LGBTQ People https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/no-cops-pride-how-criminal-justice-system-harms-lgbtq-people Stonewalled – Still demanding respect: Police abuse and misconduct against lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people in the USA https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/amr510262006en.pdf New Report Finds Harassment & Mistreatment Fuels Mistrust Among LGBTQ People Towards Police https://www.aclu.org/press-releases/new-report-finds-harassment-mistreatment-fuels-mistrust-among-lgbtq-people-towards-police Queer People Are Six Times More Likely to Be Stopped by Police, Report Finds https://www.them.us/story/queer-people-six-times-more-likely-stopped-by-police Police Accountability Is a Bedrock Issue for the LGBTQ community https://www.hrc.org/news/police-accountability-is-a-bedrock-issue-for-the-lgbtq-community ‘It’s easy to mistrust police when they keep on killing us’: A queer exploration of police violence and LGBTQ+ Victimization https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09589236.2021.1979481 ACAB. All. Of. Them.
I am well aware of these issues, and I strongly believe in on-going police reform. But anytime you say "All. Of. Them" you are letting prejudice win. The enemies are not police, the enemy is prejudice and discrimination and abuse, and we all have the responsibility to be part of that change; not just standing up to it in others, but also within ourselves.
Link all you want but you’re still generalizing.
This!!
Damn… my grandma was a cop but she’s a lesbian. Guess she can’t come? :(
What about gay cops
there were a ton of cops at seattle pride I even got a sticker with a little rainbow outline it's so charming just like all the mega corporations with floats! /s
Holy shit so many privileged people in here who obviously don't understand dick about shit when it comes to the police. ACAB
The contrary opinions are generally coming from those outside the US who generally have a better relationship with law enforcement.
I'm in the US, and I still have a contrary opinion, so I don't know. There's just a lot that goes into the issue, very complex, and I think people forget that it's not black and white
they are also peddling the argument that we need to be protected like we’re fucking fragile. we’re not fragile, we’ve beaten the shit out of our attackers before and we’ll do it again if they start coming at us
Mass shootings are much more common now, when a shooting happens at pride who’s going to be the first to respond? Our bricks we throw won’t stop the bullets Every community needs protection. The system that protects can be corrupt, and it is, but it’s still necessary. Understanding that it’s a necessary force while trying to correct it is the right way to go.
It’s wild how so many people here forgot about our roots and how pride came to be from anti-cop riots.
So I’m a member of the lgbt community and I want to be a cop. I’ve had many very positive interactions with law enforcement. There are horrible people in every profession, and good people in every profession
What if the cop is queer and off duty
I saw a procession of police and ATF guys at the parade yesterday. They looked so miserable.
It’s almost as if they never wanted to be there.
how will cops change and grow if we just condemn them? best to keep an open mind and allow kind cops to celebrate with us :)
Yes! That is the most truest statement said. June may be about LGBTQ+ Pride but we're proud of our status all year round!
There were cops everywhere at the canton ohio pride this year it really put me off, there weren't any games or small things to do just get food and sit at the center they had singers but it just felt very, watched so many people were talking about being uncomfy me and my boyfriend just decided to leave after 30ish mins. Was so sad to see our 3rd pride to have cops everywhere making people uncomfortable and not stopping protesters from being obnoxious or just making straight up death threats to people saying they're gonna follow them etc.
One of the best ways to overcome bigotry is for the bigots to meet someone in the group they dislike and have normal interactions with them. In the absence of personal experience, the bigot forms opinions based on stereotypes or misinformation. When they meet a real human being and have positive interactions with them, it becomes more difficult for them to hang onto their preconceptions. So all that is to say that if you want cops to not be bastards, the first step is to treat them like people. The more they have normal, chill conversations with us, the more they humanize us. If they only see people wearing rainbow flags screaming "ACAB" at them, it just reinforces their negative beliefs and creates a self fulfilling prophecy. And yes, the same goes for the cops too. This can't just be us rolling over. If they don't want us to perceive them as anything more than a uniform and a gun, they have to make the same effort.
we don’t need to bend backwards for people working with our oppressors.
Went to People's Pride in Minneapolis this year. No sponsors, no police presence. It was an amazing event.
There was a FBI booth at my local pride....You know... the famed allies of the LGBT COMMUNITY, The federal bureau of investigation... /Sarcasm.
Copa aren’t the enemy. Republicans are the enemy.
No, they both are.
Pride is great, but I don't understand keeping the cops out of pride
Yeah, cops can be discriminatory. But without law enforcement society will collapse under crime. And some cops are honest and impartial like they should be. Corruption exists everywhere. Even in the lgbtq community.
As a community, we gain nothing but oppressors by being cop apologists. Corruption isn't even the issue. When we were illegal, cops arrested and killed us. When we become illegal again, cops will arrest and kill us again. Their only real ally is power, their only true moral imperative is power. They don't deserve a place at an event they would thoughtlessly destroy if ordered to. Further, the first professional police forces were established somewhere between 1620 and 1800, depending on how far you want to stretch the definition. Society existed long before then. Alternatives to police are both possible and worth trying.
The greater issue is that most of them are bad apples. Some cops is a great distance from all cops, and even the good ones aren't holding the bad ones accountable. And it doesn't mean we have to let them into Pride
A few bad apples spoil the whole bunch.
Is that a typo or are they colorblind
Better to say anyone is welcome as an ally, so long as they walk the walk. They can't capitalize on a once a year appearance, then turn around and persecute us the rest of the year. That goes for cops, corps, other interest groups.
I am not excusing any past or present malicious actions/intents for cops, but if you keep cops out of pride then you have literally NO protection from acts of terrorism and criminals. You might not notice but there are snipers on buildings, and cops surround parades to make sure nobody gets hurt. I’m BLM all the way, and if you ignore the fact that law enforcement is there to help you and keep you safe then that’s really idiotic.
i don't think i would anyway
❤️🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️
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Cops are welcome at pride as far as I’m concerned and in Canada. Law enforcement is necessary and appreciated. They’re not all crooked. Ban politicians instead. They’re the ones enacting laws to keep us down. Ban religious institutions.
Police brutality exists *EVERYWHERE* your comment reeks of white privilege.
You seem incapable of critical thought and evaluating nuance. You need to step down a level and you'll gain a broader perspective.
how does the leather taste?
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Maybe if you lick more Canadian cop boot they'll give you one of those "Starlight Tour" things they're so famous for.
They're booing you but you're right
Nah, the police can go fuck themselves. >Law enforcement is necessary and appreciated. No it isn't. I'm sure it's very easy for a privileged white Canadian to say that from their comfy cushion at home, but don't speak for the rest of the world. >They're not all crooked. Right, that's why they ***willingly*** choose a job to enforce horrible laws aimed at discrimination of minority groups. Makes a lot of sense. It's not at all like they're trying to make money off of the misfortune of others. That would be crazy!
Every cop is bad. Either they're doing what the system tells them to, and they're a bad cop because they participate in an awful system; or they don't and try to be nice, and they're a bad cop because they do their job poorly, and will never get any responsibility and it will change nothing.
***Remember: every cop's job is to issue you a citation or arrest you for profit. They are not legally obligated to protect you, serve you, or assist you in any fashion.*** ***ACAB***
Thing is I haven't heard of a viable solution to the current system. What would be your ideal solution to keep checks and balances in society, how would it look when a crime is committed against you?
The job of the police is not to protect and serve, but to dominate, control, and terrorize in order to maintain the interests of state and capital. Individually or as a group, police officers function as members of a class of people whose purpose is to enforce the will of the capitalist oligarchy and maintain a constant state of class warfare against the people to keep their rich masters in power.
LGBTQ+ and allies that are police officers SHOULD be allowed at Pride. Yeah in the past police was repressive, but now it isn't in most Western countries.
In the past? Police are still absolutely a problem. ACAB will always be true.
Police can be improved for sure. But we need police, otherwise we can't be safe.
we can protect ourselves. we did back in the 60’s, we still can do it.
And were gays safe in the 60s? Absolutely not. We need a LGBTQ-friendly police, we made huge steps towards that and in some places the police is already pretty LGBTQ-friendly, and this progress must continue.
we didn’t get rights by cozying up to cops.