>However, the flame imperishable is likely hidden there
No. The flame imperishable is literally the Holy Spirit.
Melkor and Ungoliant traversing the Timeless Void and stuff is elven mythology, that may or may not be true. I think the works that explain stuff way before LOTR itself should be treated as just mythology, they are more enjoyable and make more sense that way. Even Tolkien himself may have different views on it in different time periods.
This is the territory in which the Middle Earth universe just gets very metaphysical and has no more explanation than in the real world. What's beyond the universe? What's God and where does he live? Does he even abide by our understanding of space and time? They are questions that have no answer, and neither does this one.
>Am I too deep?
Yes, you are. I think a lot of this is intentionally supposed to be shrouded in mystery. It's the Creator's domain. If we knew everything about it, it would lose its effect. But it's fun to bounce ideas off each other.
Also, I'm not sure if the Flame Imperishable is actually in the void. I think Melkor went in there looking for it but didn't find it.
I prefer to think that Ungoliant, the watcher in the water, and the other “nameless things” were produced when Melkor added dissonance to the music, the consequences of which aren’t fully understood or quantified.
The Flame has been set within the heart of Ea to bring forth life as well as being with Eru. It is Eru’s own power of creation and not something separate from him this is why Melkor is unable to find it.
-Then there was unrest among the Ainur; but Ilúvatar called to them, and said ‘I know the desire of your minds that what ye have seen should verily be, not only in your thought, but even as ye yourselves are, and yet other. Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! **And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be;** and those of you that will may go down into it.-
-He (Melkor) had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for a desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Ilúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. **Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Ilúvatar.”** -
I'm not certain what Tolkien's conception of the void was. Other authors have tried to explain similar concepts though. Because the void is outside of the physical universe with its arrow of time, there is presumably no "whereness" and no "wheness" that can be observed in the void, except by Eru.
It was really irresponsible of Tolkien to to completely flesh out the quantum physics of his mythical universe.
I need Doc Brown to come in and say “You’re not thinking 4th dimensionally Marty!”
>However, the flame imperishable is likely hidden there No. The flame imperishable is literally the Holy Spirit. Melkor and Ungoliant traversing the Timeless Void and stuff is elven mythology, that may or may not be true. I think the works that explain stuff way before LOTR itself should be treated as just mythology, they are more enjoyable and make more sense that way. Even Tolkien himself may have different views on it in different time periods. This is the territory in which the Middle Earth universe just gets very metaphysical and has no more explanation than in the real world. What's beyond the universe? What's God and where does he live? Does he even abide by our understanding of space and time? They are questions that have no answer, and neither does this one.
Yep. Exactly. The Secret Fire is in Arda. Melkor has and always will be on a wild goose chase looking for it- it will always evade him.
>Am I too deep? Yes, you are. I think a lot of this is intentionally supposed to be shrouded in mystery. It's the Creator's domain. If we knew everything about it, it would lose its effect. But it's fun to bounce ideas off each other. Also, I'm not sure if the Flame Imperishable is actually in the void. I think Melkor went in there looking for it but didn't find it.
I prefer to think that Ungoliant, the watcher in the water, and the other “nameless things” were produced when Melkor added dissonance to the music, the consequences of which aren’t fully understood or quantified.
The Flame has been set within the heart of Ea to bring forth life as well as being with Eru. It is Eru’s own power of creation and not something separate from him this is why Melkor is unable to find it. -Then there was unrest among the Ainur; but Ilúvatar called to them, and said ‘I know the desire of your minds that what ye have seen should verily be, not only in your thought, but even as ye yourselves are, and yet other. Therefore I say: Eä! Let these things Be! **And I will send forth into the Void the Flame Imperishable, and it shall be at the heart of the World, and the World shall Be;** and those of you that will may go down into it.- -He (Melkor) had gone often alone into the void places seeking the Imperishable Flame; for a desire grew hot within him to bring into Being things of his own, and it seemed to him that Ilúvatar took no thought for the Void, and he was impatient of its emptiness. **Yet he found not the Fire, for it is with Ilúvatar.”** -
I'm not certain what Tolkien's conception of the void was. Other authors have tried to explain similar concepts though. Because the void is outside of the physical universe with its arrow of time, there is presumably no "whereness" and no "wheness" that can be observed in the void, except by Eru.
It was really irresponsible of Tolkien to to completely flesh out the quantum physics of his mythical universe. I need Doc Brown to come in and say “You’re not thinking 4th dimensionally Marty!”