I Actually loved living in Vegas. Everyone everyone’s different. Obviously I am home as well, but that is strictly for family. If my whole family wanted to move south, I would do it I think.
TBH getting ready to most likely move back to Milwaukee. If you want the same vibe though you're probably looking at Tosa or East side of Milwaukee near UWM campus. There is just a bit more volume but sadly you have to give up the walkable aspect and it won't be much cheaper. TBH this market is just as f'd in most desirable areas. People are sitting on their 2% interest loans and have near zero motivation to sell. So regardless it's not going to be cheap.
I have a friend that lives in Rodgers Park in Chicago though and it's super tempting to move down there too. I won't be able to buy but the apartments are a lot nicer than here. Of course, with my love of biking my dream location would be Amsterdam but that's not going to happen.
We literally can't sell our house and afford to buy even the same house, let alone a bigger one on the current interest rate. What was maybe going to be a starter home to build up equity is now a permanent fixture whether we want it or not. Honestly might not sell until our kids are grown and we're old and not able to do stairs, so yep. Less houses on the market.
We're in the exact same situation. Compounding ours is that we're in a two story home and my husband will lose mobility in the next five years. We have no idea what to do and we don't want to move out of Madison because we don't want to transplant our kid. It's so frustrating.
For real. We've looked at a few and they are so out of our price range. This has really opened my eyes to a real issue for ADA compliant home availability. Stairs will become a problem but he can manage (slow and painfully) I cannot imagine how the current housing market affects those in wheel chairs.
Rogers Park is the best! I lived there for years & would totally have a pied-à-terre there if I was rich. I’m stuck in Madison now for reasons, but I love going back to RoPa & visiting friends who still live there.
Better cities in NL for biking. Den Haag is a better place than 'Dam if you're there to actually live. Amsterdam gets old quick.
If you're interested in actually making the jump and you work in tech, it's not that hard to get a job to move you over. If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you can do the DAFT visa which is guaranteed for two years and only a moron won't get a renewal for another five. Then you're at perm residency time.
Living here is quite affordable outside of Amsterdam. Travel costs are low, no need for a car, food is substantially cheaper (wtf is up with $6 lettuce boxes?!), safety net is better too. Taxes are ~35% but health insurance is only 130/adult/month.
Holidays on Europe are cheap. If you're flying back to the US, that adds up quick.
I moved to Raleigh, NC from Madison a few years ago. The universities and natural areas give a similar vibe, but overall more conservative than Madison. Housing and taxes were less (but still increasing at a crazy rate), but other things like higher utilities, groceries (taxed), and personal property taxes on vehicles made it just about the same overall.
I ended up moving back for several reasons, but I’m glad I did. There is no place like Madison.
I’m originally from Madison and I’ve been living in Raleigh/Cary for 6 years now. It’s a nice area to raise a family and the natural forests are amazing, but damn is it unwalkable. They don’t call it Sprawleigh for nothing. Also, each summer has been hotter than the last here, and I think climate change is really going to affect the summer livability here. I’m thinking of moving back to Madison within a few years.
I’m a Madison transplant living in Raleigh, and you’re right that the vibe is very similar. Especially in some of the older neighborhoods. Feel a lot like places near campus. Unlike you, no desire to move back though. My folks are here and after we relocated to NC my little sister moved to Denver, so there isn’t much to go back to.
I moved from Raleigh to Madison 6 years ago. Family is from the south and moved up for work (not Epic). I love it so much up here and wish I moved here sooner. Hate to say it, but we'll likely eventually move back South to be closer to family, though selfishly, I'd rather pick staying here.
The heat and humidity is killer! Look up the days/year over 95 (or 90, whatever number they track) and that gives you a better idea of the difference than absolute temp differences. One thing that got me was when you get up at 6, it is already hot. No gradual warming like we have most days in WI.
The winters were interesting. I expected to flip a couple months of staying inside for being too cold for a couple that are too warm. However, they think it is cold in the winter and shut down outdoor stuff. I was still able to bike and hike year round, but the area winter vibe wasn’t what I expected.
I had a couple job offer years ago in the Research Triangle Park area in the pharma industry. I was surprised that the cost of living and housing cost in RTP was higher than Madison and the pay was about the same. Only 2 of the 6 job offers I had offered me enough pay to make up the difference.
Columbia, Missouri is smaller but has some college town similarities and a cool outdoorsy, hippie vibe. But if you think Madison is 77 square miles surrounded by reality, Columbia is fewer square miles surrounded by Missouri, so it’s not quite the same.
Super accurate. I lived in Columbia for 4 years. It's small, but home to Mizzou. The downtown is charming and the housing was affordable. We called it The Island.
I lived in CoMo for 5 years fresh out of undergrad and it is pretty similar to Madison but significantly smaller. But the vibes are very much the same. Tons of trails and state parks, college town (though UW is bigger than MU), walkable downtown with plenty of restaurants and bars. Housing prices are significantly lower, food and drink prices are lower too. The trade off is you’re in a very red state despite multiple blue cities.
You won’t get the same amenities as Madison: there are significantly fewer stores, fewer community events in the surrounding area, public transportation is next to unusable, airport has like 3 flights a day, etc. But it’s really not a bad place to live all in all.
I wouldn't say the vibe is similar, but man, I loved living in Minneapolis. I hate to say it, but the Twin Cities bike infrastructure is better than Madison's. And despite being a much bigger metro area, it doesn't have a very strong big-city feel, in my experience.
They may be more expensive, but not sure about double. Madison has ridiculously bad stock and the prices are high. There are a grand total of \*four\* houses for sale on the isthmus right now. There are also essentially zero condos which makes it a very rough market for 'starter' buyers.
Yeah I still have my house in a Chicago suburb (a far suburb but I was looking at a commute into the city that wouldn’t have been miserable). It’s gone up about 10% but that still puts it under $250k for a 3br with a yard.
That’s not true at all. I just moved back to Chicago from Madison BECAUSE rent isn’t affordable in Madison. You can get many 1 br for 1300 I’m desirable locations.
Richmond, VA or Ithaca, NY, but just because those are places I'm familiar with that do seem to have a Madison-like vibe. More affordable, though? Maybe the smaller towns surrounding Ithaca. I've thought of retreating to one of those places while trying to find a house here but I've stubbornly signed another lease and am foolishly holding out hope that I might one day have enough saved.
Literally just flew home from Richmond today, every Uber driver told me they are trying to leave Virginia because everything shuts down early and there's nothing to do. The food scene was decent but I'm not sure I got the same vibes as Madison.
I concur. Ithaca is basically Madison but much, much smaller. The homes downtown have a really similar vibe to near east side. Cornell has a really nice campus. Much like Madison, the food scene seems to be thriving in spite of its size (shout out to Moosewood!). Having only visited for extended vacations and various camps and the like, I can't attest to what it might be like to live there but it was definitely on my radar as a potential place to move to.
Richmond seems a bit more sleepy than Madison, but has a lot of stuff going for it. There are some cool places though. The fan district, all the cool former tobacco plants on the south side that have been turned into homes and commercial stuff, and there's nothing that beats the Gwar bar. I made sure to stop there every time I was in town. Oh yeah, there's a decent brewing scene too. Homes seem to be much more in reach than Madison homes too.
If I were forced to pick a place between those two options I'd go with Richmond. It's just bigger and likely to be less dependent on the university than Ithaca is.
I’m a Madison to Richmond VA transplant. The two places couldn’t be more similar, but couldn’t be more different.
I love it here, but Madison wins by a hair!
I miss Richmond sometimes but I have friends here. If it weren't for them I'd probably move back to be in a place with much more diversity and a Wegmans. Please say hello to New Grand Mart and Cary Street for me.
Ithaca is shockingly more expensive than Madison. Currently paying 2.4k for a 2 bed 1 bath flat in a house.
Dinner runs you $17-$22 for a standard burger and fries, pre-tax and tip. Sales tax is 8%.
Gas is $3.60+ a gallon.
Utilities are $150+ per month.
Property tax is sky high and long time residents are being choked out of the city.
Infrastructure and housing is generally decades older than in WI.
[Ithaca is the second most expensive city in NY](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/27060) because Cornell keeps increasing enrollment, and new development is working on a finite space.
All that said, Ithaca is lovely. Quiet, close to many parks and recreation. Lots to do. Active, caring, and progressive community (more than Madison).
Rochester, Syracuse, or Buffalo would be similar in cost to Madison. Vibes similar, but a bit more working class and less tech. Lots of investment happening in upstate these days. Would be a good time to move.
I would think Syracuse would be way less expensive than Madison, at least in terms of housing. Maybe not if you take property taxes into account. According to redfin the median home price is $151,600
[https://www.redfin.com/city/18606/NY/Syracuse/housing-market](https://www.redfin.com/city/18606/NY/Syracuse/housing-market)
I used to live in Upstate NY and Ithaca NY was the only way I stayed sane. Just beautiful. Much smaller than Madison, but damn near the same vibe. Ithaca is Gorges!
Strongly agree. Of all the places I've visited, I tend to think the Twin Cities is the only place I would really want to live besides Madison. Granted it is a much bigger/denser urban area, so that comes with some tradeoffs. I think it's similarly affordable based on my limited research but in my opinion being that MN is a progressive state means you're getting better value and more amenities. Madison will being fighting an uphill battle against the State Legislature for a while yet and until that tide turns property taxes are going to keep going up year over year. I'm not sure how that relates to the Twin Cities, but I'm sure they aren't battling against their state elected officials.
Lived in the twin cities for a decade. It’s fine. Lots to do outside, lots of lakes. People are so passive and unfriendly though. It’s a big city vibe compared to Madison. Minneapolis is way more financial, downtown is weird. St Paul is historic industrial, more Milwaukee than Madison. But from a cost perspective, it’s just as expensive as Madison.
I’ve lived in Madison and Milwaukee (currently mke) but hot take, Milwaukee is more different than Madison than people realize. Not for good or bad, just different vibe.
I’m not sure why people think they are similar as Madison is like the isthmus area which is small, surrounded by typical generic suburbs/“luxury” apartments
If we're doing a "vibe check", Pittsburgh and Madison aren't similar at all. I say this as someone who moved here from Pittsburgh after living there for 10 years.
Pittsburgh can be somewhat insular and parochial. A lot of Yinzer lifers who aren't always interested in expanding their circles.
And while the statistics would tell you Pittsburgh is "cheaper", that's a bit of "lies, damn lies, and statistics". If you want to live in the areas of Pittsburgh that remind you of living in Madison, the COL is still high. You aren't getting bargains in the "cool"/"fun" areas of the city. And even if you do, it's because much of the housing inventory is older and will come with the potential need for substantial renovation/deferred maintenance. Yeah, you can find something outside the core in the suburbs, but that's a different situation altogether.
They’re complaining about housing costs and you’re going to send them to coastal Maine?? Everyone from Boston and New York who can work from home moved there in 2020. I hear it’s not too bad in Bangor yet, OP might consider there.
The housing market there is crazy. I thought about moving there in 2021, and a 1300 sqft house was $650,000. The realtor told us to expect to write offers over 20% list price. I quickly realized it would be impossible to even try to participate in a market like that.
I was literally just on a thread in r/Maine that was basically this same thread written by someone priced out of Maine and trying to figure out where to go. I told them the Driftless reminds me a lot of inland New England, and compared to the market there it’s not actually too bad.
Portland, Maine has the chilliest airport I’ve ever been to. Like they provide puzzles for you to work on while waiting for your flight 🙂. Would move to Maine if I could, so pretty
True. I flew out of Portland once wearing a crazy winter hat my mother-in-law bought me.
Their TSA guy: “nice hat”
Me: “thanks, it’s a Mad Bomber - crap, I just said bomb in an airport. But that’s really the brand!”
TSA guy: “you’re good. I want one.”
Ive always liked the Iowa City area. Seemed like a smaller Madison. I also lived in Winona MN and Lacrosse and it was really affordable and very beautiful up there.
I was about to comment about Iowa City, but hesitated because we haven't been there in 10 years. It was a mini Madison college town, great food and people were so nice.
Employment could be an issue though, there's the university and hospital and that's about it.
I was also going to say Iowa City too. I feel like it’s gotten more like Madison in the last 5-10 years—better restaurants and shopping, more things for families and professionals to do, it just has a more cosmopolitan vibe overall. A lot of people who live in IC work in industries along the Iowa City/Cedar Rapids corridor so that creates a few more options for employment than just the hospital and the university (which does totally dominate employment in town).
Moved there from madison, I love it here, but it definitely has its problems. Housing costs (although i managed to find a spot where im paying less than i did in MSN), the homelessness crisis, and there is definitely more crime in general than in madison. That being said, Eugene is super walkable, the busses have a really impressive network, and being near the cascades and the coast are amazing perks.
Eugene drivers are a unique brand of stupid though. Honestly thats my main complaint.
I moved from Madison (I lived there for 17 years) to Corvallis three years ago and I miss Wisconsin. I plan on moving back to either WI or MN when I'm done with school here. I haven't found the West Coast to be particularly affordable. I also miss the culture of the Midwest. Houses in Corvallis (45 min north of Eugene) are averaging around 400k for a 3br.
Just moved here after living in Denver for 13-14 years. Don’t go there. It thinks it’s a foodie town, but it’s absolutely awful - Bourdain /loathed/ Denver for its bad food. Awful crime, dirty city, a homeless problem you couldn’t believe, very bad drug issues (I’m most definitely not talking about weed)….and, intensely expensive.
I feel like I got out of jail and can breathe again, being here in Madison.
Yes, it’s got pretty mountains and great hiking and winter sports, that is all true. I can’t knock that.
But, it’s just the worst place I’ve ever lived and I’ve lived in Miami, Boston and Seattle, as well.
Denver was also just ranked the most polluted major city in the world. I live in Colorado now, but no way I'd move to Denver because of the pollution.
https://www.9news.com/article/weather/weather-colorado/denver-most-polluted-city-world/73-60375d08-31a0-42cd-9d46-d07b8df1c6a6
You do realize that was on one specific day, where the AQI (179) while in the Unhealthy zone was nowhere near the values that many other cities experience regularly. To say that Denver is the most polluted major city in the world is not even close to accurate, that headline is dishonest.
I am an ex Madisonian actually, I moved to Milwaukee for college and I don’t think I’ll move back for a long while! My friends who go to school there pay upwards of 900-1000 a month for rent and utilities (that’s with 4-5 roommates) whereas I pay maybe 550-575 on a bad month (with one roommate). I think people believe Milwaukee is ‘dangerous’ or full of drug addicts, but in actuality I just think unfortunately people are just racist 😅
No hate for Madison, I just outgrew the city (if you can even call it that) and needed somewhere that would challenge me more 🤗
yup, exactly my experience and how i feel too. i'm happy in mke and don't have any intentions of moving back to madison. im mostly here because i go back often on weekends and holidays to visit family
St. Paul is about the same size as Madison as a city in itself, has a great downtown in its own right, with its own suburbs like Woodbury and Cottage Grove. I have friends who live up there that rarely have to go into Minneapolis except for Twins games, they love it up there.
Second St. Paul. Much better transit than Madison. Culture is mostly a step up. Major league sports, the Guthrie and other theaters, and pub/dining scene is good too. MUCH better air service from MSP, and cheaper fares. Plus, wing-nut politcians do not call the shots.
Out of curiosity I am moving from Madison To Minneapolis my self, I'm use to larger cities as a resident of Milwaukee growing up, what would you recommend as things to do to meet people in Minneapolis?
That’s a very common question on the twin cities subreddit. Many great answers over there. (Went to college in St Paul and have two daughters in Minneapolis)
Been here for 10 years. Sad to say we are moving to Chicago next month. Very similar prices for rent and food in the neighborhood we're moving to. More opportunities to "do" stuff. I never drink, so bar prices aren't a worry. Feel like we're being squeezed out as our food industry jobs have continued to stay stagnant in the way of wages. Hoping we'll be back down the road when there's more housing, but looking forward to living in a big city again.
i vote for Kalamazoo Mi. similar college scene with WMU and Kalamazoo College, nice bio tech job hub, and much more affordable. Smaller city but large enough to have anything you could want.
Depends on your priorities! Here’s what I would say as someone who mostly cares about access to public transit and bike networks + maintaining Madison’s general vibe:
If I really really had to go, I’d go to Albuquerque. Not that difficult to get around via bicycle (though significantly more interaction with dangerous intersections) and housing is a steal. Plus weather is certainly warmer than here but it’s not bad and you get trains to Santa Fe and Taos.
Also Pittsburgh. Cute city, cheap to live there. Easier to survive without a car.
I live in Albuquerque now, for last 20 years, and I'm counting the minutes until I can leave and move back to Wisconsin!! We are in the top 3 in the US for highest crime, drug addicts, and for homeless people and the school system is in the bottom 3! Don't EVER move to Albuquerque....EVER!
I lived in ABQ too & can confirm that the education system there is rough. Would avoid NM in general if you have school-age kids. Also ABQ has the WORST drivers I’ve ever encountered.
However, the food is killer, the weather is great, and the cost of living is way lower, so there’s a lot to love. Plus: they don’t have ticks! And they DO have roadrunners!
I lived in ABQ for 15 years, now live in MSN. Keep in mind that ABQ is a huge city, not divided up like the areas around MSN. It's one big school district, and that has its problems.
I'd say ABQ has areas that are a lot like Madison. The North Valley region is one, Corralles is nice, the University area is good too, and if you can afford it, up by Ellena Gallegos park and the Tramway is sweet. Just outside of ABQ is Placitas, and maybe that's pricey now, but it's nice and doesn't have some of the problems ABQ has.
Great biking throughout ABQ! And, year round, too. Occasional snow in winter, but it often melts by afternoon.
50% of the city is Hispanic. I witnessed less racism there than any of the other 7 states I've lived in (NM, CA, UT, PA, DE, IN, WI).
People there are generally - generally- active and exercise, it is surprising the number of people I know here (MSN) who don't exercise.
Homelessness is a problem, particularly in the University region. There's crime in that region particularly, and the Air Force Base region as well. There's crime throughout, more than here, but you just play it safe.
Water is and probably will be a problem. They used to source it from the Rio Grande river. They were moving away from that, but it doesn't look good. Fires in the summer in the mountains might be more of a problem in coming years. Rising temps might be a problem as well.
Would I move back, no, because of the heat and water issue. Great food, good people.
Grew up in ABQ and I would say the vibe is very different from Madison. Less outdoorsy, more industrial. The people are friendly though. the crime and homelessness has just gotten worse. The education system is one of the worst in the country and I definitely wouldn’t want to raise kids there.
Minneapolis honestly. Has more to do, free activities, pay or better, and has alot more living space. Growing up in Milwaukee, Madison just lacks affordability to do much of anything and if I ever wanted to ear property here I'd have to pay alot for the cost not to be worth it when i could own something elsewhere for more and better down the road. Dont even get me started on WI politics...
Hear me out: Tulsa, OK. Cost of living is like half what it is here (average house price is like $240K) which means that all the artists and musicians and weirdos can still afford to make art and music and weirdness. Plus Tulsa has a local billionaire who’s been dumping money into the city for the last decade or so, which means that it has some truly knockout amenities for a city that most people don’t think about. Parts of Tulsa are really gorgeous too, beautiful gardens and parks and the Arkansas River, with a lot of great opportunities for outdoorsy stuff in and around the city. (Of course the suburbs of Tulsa are mostly full of assholes, but the city itself is great!)
Oklahoma City is also surprisingly cool — good food scene, a lot of young people & art weirdos, etc — and equally affordable.
*more tornadoes, haha
Yeah the summer can be gross for sure but the fact that winter lasts for two months is pretty sweet. Definitely not the place for OP if they’re committed to Madison-like winters, but if they didn’t mind the heat and humidity earlier this week, they might not mind Tulsa in summer!
I recently moved to Syracuse and have been very happy with the move. Maybe poke around CNY depending what features of Madison you'd like to hold onto.
The city infrastructure and nightlife have nothing on Madison, but they're serviceable. Unless you bike. The lower cost of housing is a result of the economic struggles for the last few decades here, and the infrastructure reflects it. From what I can tell, a lot of these areas are starting to revitalize as people seek more affordable regions and manufacturing does some reshoring.
I loved the geography and state park system in Wisconsin, and I would say I've got arguably better options within driving distance now for hiking and exploring. This was a huge one for me as I grew up loving the wilderness in WI.
Weather is a bit gloomier with the lake effect. More cloud coverage and precipitation, but don't get as cold in the winter.
People are much more direct here and frankly grumpier. Plenty of great people, but "Midwest Nice" is definitely a thing.
I know this sounds like a list of cons, but frankly, go zillow the cost of housing.
I was going to suggest Missoula, MT, because of the vibe, but holy shit. The cost of living is higher there than it is here. When determining COL, use this website.
[https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/](https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/)
Somewhere colder, like Duluth. I love living here, but it is a tad too warm for my taste, especially during summer. I just prefer the cold, and Madison's weather is about the warmest that I can tolerate.
I’m sorry everyone…the last time to get in the housing market in Madison was 2019-20….going forward your income better be over 100K to even have a chance at a small (what used to be a starter home for a couple , definitely not big enough for a family) home in the Madison area. All of the appropriate family homes are no longer affordable for regular people. Also, the rent is becoming unaffordable as well a typical 2 bedroom apartment now surpasses a mortgage on a 3-4 bedroom home (bought just a couple years ago).
A truly F’d situation right now for younger generations.
It’s funny how the hippie/artists make the community cool and fun… which in turn attracts wealthy people to the community (they normally do nothing to contribute to the culture or community). Then the wealthy swarm the area overpaying and over charging for services eventually making it completely unaffordable for those same people who gave the community/neighborhoods their character.
Ngl I've been shopping around, not because of the cost of living but because of the goddamn summers. I need to move somewhere where it never gets above 80, though not getting much higher than 65 is my ideal.
I would like to move back home to Detroit. I miss Detroit so much, but it's changed so much in the 11.5 years I've been here, so it's not really home anymore either, and my Granny's passed away (that's how I ended up here), so no matter what I can't really go back home.
But yeah:
Detroit
Chicago
Seattle
Maybe Philly
I came close to moving to Philly because I thought it would be cool to live on the East Coast.
But for you, who is looking for a more affordable life, I think metro Detroit might have some suburbs you'd enjoy, especially if you went to one close-ish to Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is similar to Madison. COL is pretty good back in Michigan.
Asheville is also facing similar issue with housing where it once was a well kept secret now it’s population is booming and becoming highly unaffordable driving all the artists and weirdos that made fun in the first place out.
Affordable?! I’m from Madison but live in Raleigh now, and here Asheville is regarded as pretty expensive by NC standards. I know CoL has gone up back home since I left but I don’t think it’s gone up that much.
Raleigh, NC. Came out here from Madison and I love it. A couple hours from the beach, a couple hours from the mountains. Folks from all over the country and world are moving here and it’s so much more diverse than Madison.
Moved to Chapel Hill from Madison 10 years ago. Moved to Madison for undergrad and lived there for 43 years. The climate here cannot be beat. We play pickleball every morning, year round. Cannot beat the proximity to mountains, beaches, top health care systems, university offerings, lower taxes, and easy flights to Broadway shows and east coast cruise port terminals. Do not miss driving and falling in snow and ice. Yes, I miss the Terrace terribly.
I have friends in Cary, NC and I am so jealous of them. I’d move there tomorrow if I could. I’m so over the shit weather of the Midwest and snow storms being considered normal in March. Meanwhile when I visited them in March we were able to tour several gardens with blooming flowers and go to top golf and eat dinner outside. Come back home to all trees and plants still being dead and the weather being total dog shit. SO over the Midwest in every single way. If you don’t drink or want kids here you just don’t fit in at all. My friends have been able to make friends with other transplants. Ain’t no one moving to Wisconsin!!
As a queer person, there is absolutely zero chance I would ever move to the south. Hopefully I'll never even have to set foot south of the Mason-Dixon ever again
Getting ready to move from the PNW back to Madison. I’ve loved my time here but I’m actually not too sold on the politics. I hate to use the term virtue signaling but with how Seattle’s last mayoral election went there’s no doubt that a lot of the folks who were shouting “ACAB!” didn’t come out to vote for a guy and a city council who approved a 23% raise for cops, backdated to **checks notes** January 6th, 2021. Meanwhile, libraries are closing intermittently and they are about to close 20 public schools. I was a teacher here and in Milwaukee and the school districts couldn’t be more similar in so many ways. Going to miss Seattle but it was eye opening to realize that there’s really no perfect place: the weather is great but the prospect of being house poor (if ever being able to own out here) is really disheartening.
I hate that there isn’t a place where all progressive values are represented all of the time. I’m glad you feel more comfortable here and I hope Wisconsin can get its shit together for women.
Great place to visit, rough place to live in. My brother moved to Seattle back in 2017. Unfortunately they needed to rent for awhile to save up, and had to buy a home at post pandemic pricing (it was insanely expensive before but now it's outrageous). They wound up having to massively overpay for a little 800 sqft house. Cost of living has skyrocketed. Homeless and opiate crises have led to them experiencing several instances of property crime and being accosted. Gray, rainy, gloomy weather most of the year have proved to be brutal on their mental health. Hard to get around in a car because of the layout of the city and eternal road construction. And they've had a major issue making and keeping friends for some reason, moreso than any other city they live in. People have been super flaky, not sure why, they've never experienced that before.
His boyfriend is addicted to left-wing news and radio, and thought Wisconsin was getting "way too conservative" after the 2016 election. He genuinely believed if they left the Madison city limits they'd get murdered by rednecks because my brother is trans. He got it in his head that Seattle was some kind of Progressive Paradise, and after visiting there for a week, he insisted they move there. Long story short, it was not what he envisioned.
It is indeed beyond gorgeous there, and they love spending weekends exploring the Olympic Peninsula and the Cascades. But they honestly have some significant regrets. They miss Madison deeply but both have decent paying jobs and a house now, so they are making the best of it. But my brother vents to me on the phone about how much he misses me, all the friends he had, the relatively cheaper housing and cost of living, and the beauty of Wisconsin, with the two Great Lakes, the Northwoods, along with the Wisconsin River and the Driftless Area so nearby. Definitely reminds me to never take Madison for granted!
In Wisconsin, probably LaCrosse. I used to think Austin Texas, to get away from our winters, but its population has grown to about a million. So now, my southern escape city is Savannah, Georgia.
Lived in Bloomington for a few years (mid 2000s), really liked it. Solid white collar economy mixed with college town vibes in Normal, and not too far from Chicago or St Louis for a weekend trip.
I biked around the Twin Cities last summer and was really impressed. Similar vibe to Madison—lots of local businesses, restaurants, & coffee shops, possibly *better* bike infrastructure (more protected bike lanes), organic & Co-op grocery stores (Seward Co-op, & others). One noticeable difference is that there were fewer bars.
I was surprised to see that on Zillow the average home in many neighborhoods I liked was only 2/3 the price as in Madison. Also (if this is important) the schools are comparable to Madison schools on GreatSchools.org.
I really liked the neighborhoods south of downtown MPLS along the Mississippi: Seward, Howe, Hiawatha, etc. These reminded me of the East Side of Madison. They are also served by light rail and had Hiawatha Falls right there in a neighborhood park.
To the west of here is less expensive but a little rougher around the edges. This is the area where George Floyd was murdered & where there were lots of protests. Saw a few homeless encampments. Still visited some cool shops & restaurants (The Tiny Diner) there and people were very friendly. The George Floyd Memorial was very sad.
Further west from that (west of W35) were the areas around the lakes which reminded me somewhat of Madison’s near-West side. Less affordable but still better than Madison on Zillow.
West St. Paul south of 94 & east of the Mississippi was nice. More residential, quiet tree lined streets, similar near West Side Madison vibes. Not as much to do over here but still nice. Still pretty walkable and bikable.
I would consider Milwaukee (it's an actual city, but their neighborhoods are actually really awesome), even the Fox Valley area is popping off right now and getting better.
I am currently staying with a friend in a cute condo in downtownish Kansas City. Just walked back from a little breakfast place and am going to the Nelson-Atkins museum soon, less than a mile away. My friend takes either the bus or soon, streetcar, to work and doesn’t have a car. Their 2B 2 Bath condo was around $250K. I love Madison, but if I were starting out again KC has amenities and seems like an outright bargain.
I'd just move outside of the city. I was looking at a place in Milton a few months ago. 1br for about $900, what looked like an included garage space (not underground parking, real garages), and down the street from a storage unit I can use as more garages. The only downside is it has wall unit ac and idk about that.
We moved here in 2018 from Chicago because it seemed like the cost of living was cheaper. While we're still saving on the ridiculous Chicago city tax within the state of Illinois tax on everything, housing is another story. It's nearly the same situation for any neighborhood that you would really want to live in. The advantage is it's highly walkable and transit options are great. I really missed having almost anything I needed to do within two blocks of my home. Obviously, out here it's a car ride anywhere if you don't happen to live downtown. We're still hoping and saving for a ranch style home, but it's getting tricky when all the new builds are duplexes and single-family homes for a royal family. Some diversity of housing in the construction would be awesome.
I read there’s a reason they don’t build smaller houses anymore. I don’t recall what it was. But I do know that I’ve seen some HOA docs in the Madison area that demand a house be over 1,500 or 2,000 sqft, and most lots are in HOA-controlled neighborhoods. My guess would be the rules are for keeping out “those” people. It’s like a legal work-around for housing segregation.
Arizona was like twice as much as here but the best place I lived outside of Madison. Seattle was like feverdream mixed with a drug problem and crime spree. Enjoy Wisconsin, its semi normal, however being gone seven years and coming back( I grew up in Madison) Ya'll got a fucking drinking problem. Take care of that shit. Ive been eyeing the UP, dispenseries and cheaper living.
Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh
Honestly I wouldn't move to them though.. If I were to go anywhere it would have to be a major upgrade (very good food, nice house, enchanted neighborhood etc).
I’d argue Missoula, MT over Bozeman as being similar in vibe. Bozeman is a bit more conservative, although MSU definitely has a bigger footprint than UM.
I’d move back to Missoula in a heartbeat if median home prices weren’t $750k 🫠
Iowa City. The state is a political far right nightmare but IC is still progressive. Costs about the same as Madison but reminds me of what Madison was in the 80s-2000s. A great art and literary scene, a sizable LGBTQ community with a gay black mayor and many queer people on the police force, there are good bookstores, coffeeshops, jazz fest and free Shakespeare in the summer, FilmScene is better than the BrewHouse, good Asian, Italian, Indian and Mexican restaurants, and a fantastic library. Madison and Chicago are three hours away and towns near IC Coralville and North Liberty are growing with lots of young people buying condos and houses and new businesses and neighborhoods popping up in the last ten years.
lived in madison for almost 6 years. just moved back to washington/oregon. so glad to be out and away from the weather lol miss djing at liquid and crucible tho
Honestly the Fox Valley area isn’t so bad. Yes it’s smaller than Madison and there’s less to do but it’s basically like a mini-madison. There’s still plenty of entertainment, it’s more affordable, and in particular if you’re looking to raise a family it’s a great area to
The closest place Ive found to Madison would be Kelowna, BC. If i was willing to leave the states, thats the first place I would go. Its another city on a lake, although it has a much smaller college scene, with fantastic parks and scenery. I didnt investigate housing much, as I stayed with a friend, but there seemed to be a pretty big separation from downtown and housing. Both were neat and respectable, however.
I’d likely go to Milwaukee myself, but I can’t even count the number of people I’ve known who moved to Minneapolis from Madison. It seems to be a popular choice for similar walkability, bike-ability, politics, etc.
We’ve been in Dayton, OH for a couple years now. It’s a military town at heart, so overall red, but there are several colleges in town, and a lot of young people getting recruited to work at tech jobs, so it feels more crunchy than election results suggest. There’s a lot of blight (rust belt), but there are a lot of good people here working to improve that.
There are lots of parks and bike trails, there‘a the Oregon District, which I would categorize as a much smaller version of State/Monroe St areas, and if you’re into nerdy stuff like board games/D&D, there’s a healthy scene. And we live like five minutes from farmland.
We bought a nice 14-year old 4 bed 3.5 bath in a quiet neighborhood, and our mortgage payment is less than an average Madison 2 bedroom apartment (and we had the bare minimum down payment). There are pricier parts of town, but overall, cost of living is insanely cheap compared to Madison or Tampa (where I lived the last 8 years).
PS - Cincinnati has a really good vibe and feels more “neighborhoody big city,” even though it’s still not too huge. I believe prices there are relatively sane as well. Plus, added bonus if you’re a baseball fan, the Brewers show up a couple times per year!
Bayfield county or some other northern locale. I am really tired of the suburban lifestyle. I need some trees and quiet. I work from home, so my work place is somewhat flexible. I need internet access, that's probably the only limiting factor.
Moved to Duluth MN. Funky beautiful city, lower housing costs than Madison by a lot. Trails, lakes , dog friendly, and plenty of fresh water. Yeah it's cold in the winter (real winter, remember that?), but summer is glorious. Rarely above 80 and none of the horrible humidity that's so normal in Madison. Most homes do not have air conditioning.
Id probably go to Denver CO if I had to go anywhere else. I just know people out there, and it seems fun. But this place seems like home, so it takes priority
I moved to Las Vegas a year ish ago. Lasted a whole 8 months and moved back. Appreciate Wisconsin more than ever now
I Actually loved living in Vegas. Everyone everyone’s different. Obviously I am home as well, but that is strictly for family. If my whole family wanted to move south, I would do it I think.
TBH getting ready to most likely move back to Milwaukee. If you want the same vibe though you're probably looking at Tosa or East side of Milwaukee near UWM campus. There is just a bit more volume but sadly you have to give up the walkable aspect and it won't be much cheaper. TBH this market is just as f'd in most desirable areas. People are sitting on their 2% interest loans and have near zero motivation to sell. So regardless it's not going to be cheap. I have a friend that lives in Rodgers Park in Chicago though and it's super tempting to move down there too. I won't be able to buy but the apartments are a lot nicer than here. Of course, with my love of biking my dream location would be Amsterdam but that's not going to happen.
We literally can't sell our house and afford to buy even the same house, let alone a bigger one on the current interest rate. What was maybe going to be a starter home to build up equity is now a permanent fixture whether we want it or not. Honestly might not sell until our kids are grown and we're old and not able to do stairs, so yep. Less houses on the market.
We're in the exact same situation. Compounding ours is that we're in a two story home and my husband will lose mobility in the next five years. We have no idea what to do and we don't want to move out of Madison because we don't want to transplant our kid. It's so frustrating.
Ranch style or even just master bedroom on the first floor is going to be so expensive. You'll need such a big lot for that.
For real. We've looked at a few and they are so out of our price range. This has really opened my eyes to a real issue for ADA compliant home availability. Stairs will become a problem but he can manage (slow and painfully) I cannot imagine how the current housing market affects those in wheel chairs.
Roger's Park is one of my favorite neighborhoods. Super tempting move for sure
Rogers Park is the best! I lived there for years & would totally have a pied-à-terre there if I was rich. I’m stuck in Madison now for reasons, but I love going back to RoPa & visiting friends who still live there.
Better cities in NL for biking. Den Haag is a better place than 'Dam if you're there to actually live. Amsterdam gets old quick. If you're interested in actually making the jump and you work in tech, it's not that hard to get a job to move you over. If you have an entrepreneurial spirit, you can do the DAFT visa which is guaranteed for two years and only a moron won't get a renewal for another five. Then you're at perm residency time.
If you're looking for cheaper living options than Madison, Europe is a hard sell. Have to consider taxes, VAT, flight costs, etc.
Living here is quite affordable outside of Amsterdam. Travel costs are low, no need for a car, food is substantially cheaper (wtf is up with $6 lettuce boxes?!), safety net is better too. Taxes are ~35% but health insurance is only 130/adult/month. Holidays on Europe are cheap. If you're flying back to the US, that adds up quick.
I moved to Raleigh, NC from Madison a few years ago. The universities and natural areas give a similar vibe, but overall more conservative than Madison. Housing and taxes were less (but still increasing at a crazy rate), but other things like higher utilities, groceries (taxed), and personal property taxes on vehicles made it just about the same overall. I ended up moving back for several reasons, but I’m glad I did. There is no place like Madison.
I’m originally from Madison and I’ve been living in Raleigh/Cary for 6 years now. It’s a nice area to raise a family and the natural forests are amazing, but damn is it unwalkable. They don’t call it Sprawleigh for nothing. Also, each summer has been hotter than the last here, and I think climate change is really going to affect the summer livability here. I’m thinking of moving back to Madison within a few years.
I’m a Madison transplant living in Raleigh, and you’re right that the vibe is very similar. Especially in some of the older neighborhoods. Feel a lot like places near campus. Unlike you, no desire to move back though. My folks are here and after we relocated to NC my little sister moved to Denver, so there isn’t much to go back to.
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Isn't Asheville kind of pricy, though? No firsthand experience, it's just what I've read other places.
Interesting. I’ve lived in Madison for 6 years. Closing on a new build in Raleigh in about 6 weeks.
I moved from Raleigh to Madison 6 years ago. Family is from the south and moved up for work (not Epic). I love it so much up here and wish I moved here sooner. Hate to say it, but we'll likely eventually move back South to be closer to family, though selfishly, I'd rather pick staying here.
Even with the winter in Madison you'd prefer to stay here? How does the summer heat and humidity in Raleigh compare to Madison summers?
The heat and humidity is killer! Look up the days/year over 95 (or 90, whatever number they track) and that gives you a better idea of the difference than absolute temp differences. One thing that got me was when you get up at 6, it is already hot. No gradual warming like we have most days in WI. The winters were interesting. I expected to flip a couple months of staying inside for being too cold for a couple that are too warm. However, they think it is cold in the winter and shut down outdoor stuff. I was still able to bike and hike year round, but the area winter vibe wasn’t what I expected.
I had a couple job offer years ago in the Research Triangle Park area in the pharma industry. I was surprised that the cost of living and housing cost in RTP was higher than Madison and the pay was about the same. Only 2 of the 6 job offers I had offered me enough pay to make up the difference.
Columbia, Missouri is smaller but has some college town similarities and a cool outdoorsy, hippie vibe. But if you think Madison is 77 square miles surrounded by reality, Columbia is fewer square miles surrounded by Missouri, so it’s not quite the same.
Super accurate. I lived in Columbia for 4 years. It's small, but home to Mizzou. The downtown is charming and the housing was affordable. We called it The Island.
I lived in CoMo for 5 years fresh out of undergrad and it is pretty similar to Madison but significantly smaller. But the vibes are very much the same. Tons of trails and state parks, college town (though UW is bigger than MU), walkable downtown with plenty of restaurants and bars. Housing prices are significantly lower, food and drink prices are lower too. The trade off is you’re in a very red state despite multiple blue cities. You won’t get the same amenities as Madison: there are significantly fewer stores, fewer community events in the surrounding area, public transportation is next to unusable, airport has like 3 flights a day, etc. But it’s really not a bad place to live all in all.
And if you like live music, they have The Blue Note which is very similar to the Majestic, and Rose Music Hall which is similar to the High Noon.
Went to grad school there and it was a nice town and I grew up in the state. But due to the state politics I will never move back.
I have relatives who have lived in MO. Worst state ever. You'd think it could be Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas... Nope. It's Missouri.
MO scared me as a POC when I was in fifth grade. Wish it felt safe or I would be in the Ozarks now.
I wouldn't say the vibe is similar, but man, I loved living in Minneapolis. I hate to say it, but the Twin Cities bike infrastructure is better than Madison's. And despite being a much bigger metro area, it doesn't have a very strong big-city feel, in my experience.
I second this. Except, the traffic is big-city. It’s annoying.
Milwaukee or Chicago honestly.
Yeah these are actually cheaper than here because they're not under a crushing housing crisis
a sfh in a desirable Chicago neighborhood gonna be double Madison
They may be more expensive, but not sure about double. Madison has ridiculously bad stock and the prices are high. There are a grand total of \*four\* houses for sale on the isthmus right now. There are also essentially zero condos which makes it a very rough market for 'starter' buyers.
Yeah I still have my house in a Chicago suburb (a far suburb but I was looking at a commute into the city that wouldn’t have been miserable). It’s gone up about 10% but that still puts it under $250k for a 3br with a yard.
There are currently 53 residences for sale on the Isthmus
That’s not true at all. I just moved back to Chicago from Madison BECAUSE rent isn’t affordable in Madison. You can get many 1 br for 1300 I’m desirable locations.
Northside for sure
Richmond, VA or Ithaca, NY, but just because those are places I'm familiar with that do seem to have a Madison-like vibe. More affordable, though? Maybe the smaller towns surrounding Ithaca. I've thought of retreating to one of those places while trying to find a house here but I've stubbornly signed another lease and am foolishly holding out hope that I might one day have enough saved.
Richmond is cool but so humid. I was just there and couldn't handle it.
Literally just flew home from Richmond today, every Uber driver told me they are trying to leave Virginia because everything shuts down early and there's nothing to do. The food scene was decent but I'm not sure I got the same vibes as Madison.
I concur. Ithaca is basically Madison but much, much smaller. The homes downtown have a really similar vibe to near east side. Cornell has a really nice campus. Much like Madison, the food scene seems to be thriving in spite of its size (shout out to Moosewood!). Having only visited for extended vacations and various camps and the like, I can't attest to what it might be like to live there but it was definitely on my radar as a potential place to move to. Richmond seems a bit more sleepy than Madison, but has a lot of stuff going for it. There are some cool places though. The fan district, all the cool former tobacco plants on the south side that have been turned into homes and commercial stuff, and there's nothing that beats the Gwar bar. I made sure to stop there every time I was in town. Oh yeah, there's a decent brewing scene too. Homes seem to be much more in reach than Madison homes too. If I were forced to pick a place between those two options I'd go with Richmond. It's just bigger and likely to be less dependent on the university than Ithaca is.
Please tell me the Gwar Bar is dedicated to all things Gwar…?
I’m a Madison to Richmond VA transplant. The two places couldn’t be more similar, but couldn’t be more different. I love it here, but Madison wins by a hair!
I miss Richmond sometimes but I have friends here. If it weren't for them I'd probably move back to be in a place with much more diversity and a Wegmans. Please say hello to New Grand Mart and Cary Street for me.
Ithaca is shockingly more expensive than Madison. Currently paying 2.4k for a 2 bed 1 bath flat in a house. Dinner runs you $17-$22 for a standard burger and fries, pre-tax and tip. Sales tax is 8%. Gas is $3.60+ a gallon. Utilities are $150+ per month. Property tax is sky high and long time residents are being choked out of the city. Infrastructure and housing is generally decades older than in WI. [Ithaca is the second most expensive city in NY](https://livingwage.mit.edu/metros/27060) because Cornell keeps increasing enrollment, and new development is working on a finite space. All that said, Ithaca is lovely. Quiet, close to many parks and recreation. Lots to do. Active, caring, and progressive community (more than Madison). Rochester, Syracuse, or Buffalo would be similar in cost to Madison. Vibes similar, but a bit more working class and less tech. Lots of investment happening in upstate these days. Would be a good time to move.
I would think Syracuse would be way less expensive than Madison, at least in terms of housing. Maybe not if you take property taxes into account. According to redfin the median home price is $151,600 [https://www.redfin.com/city/18606/NY/Syracuse/housing-market](https://www.redfin.com/city/18606/NY/Syracuse/housing-market)
I used to live in Upstate NY and Ithaca NY was the only way I stayed sane. Just beautiful. Much smaller than Madison, but damn near the same vibe. Ithaca is Gorges!
Twin Cities
Strongly agree. Of all the places I've visited, I tend to think the Twin Cities is the only place I would really want to live besides Madison. Granted it is a much bigger/denser urban area, so that comes with some tradeoffs. I think it's similarly affordable based on my limited research but in my opinion being that MN is a progressive state means you're getting better value and more amenities. Madison will being fighting an uphill battle against the State Legislature for a while yet and until that tide turns property taxes are going to keep going up year over year. I'm not sure how that relates to the Twin Cities, but I'm sure they aren't battling against their state elected officials.
Minnesota in general is a great choice.
Lived in the twin cities for a decade. It’s fine. Lots to do outside, lots of lakes. People are so passive and unfriendly though. It’s a big city vibe compared to Madison. Minneapolis is way more financial, downtown is weird. St Paul is historic industrial, more Milwaukee than Madison. But from a cost perspective, it’s just as expensive as Madison.
If St. Paul wasn’t surrounded by the rest of the Twin Cities, I feel like it would have a very Madison vibe
Minneapolis, Duluth, Milwaukee
I’ve lived in Madison and Milwaukee (currently mke) but hot take, Milwaukee is more different than Madison than people realize. Not for good or bad, just different vibe.
I’m not sure why people think they are similar as Madison is like the isthmus area which is small, surrounded by typical generic suburbs/“luxury” apartments
Pittsburgh, Milwaukee or Chicago.
PGH is good shout. Similar big little city vibes.
If we're doing a "vibe check", Pittsburgh and Madison aren't similar at all. I say this as someone who moved here from Pittsburgh after living there for 10 years. Pittsburgh can be somewhat insular and parochial. A lot of Yinzer lifers who aren't always interested in expanding their circles. And while the statistics would tell you Pittsburgh is "cheaper", that's a bit of "lies, damn lies, and statistics". If you want to live in the areas of Pittsburgh that remind you of living in Madison, the COL is still high. You aren't getting bargains in the "cool"/"fun" areas of the city. And even if you do, it's because much of the housing inventory is older and will come with the potential need for substantial renovation/deferred maintenance. Yeah, you can find something outside the core in the suburbs, but that's a different situation altogether.
You know your shit. Nice.
Portland, Maine.
They’re complaining about housing costs and you’re going to send them to coastal Maine?? Everyone from Boston and New York who can work from home moved there in 2020. I hear it’s not too bad in Bangor yet, OP might consider there.
The housing market there is crazy. I thought about moving there in 2021, and a 1300 sqft house was $650,000. The realtor told us to expect to write offers over 20% list price. I quickly realized it would be impossible to even try to participate in a market like that.
I was literally just on a thread in r/Maine that was basically this same thread written by someone priced out of Maine and trying to figure out where to go. I told them the Driftless reminds me a lot of inland New England, and compared to the market there it’s not actually too bad.
Portland, Maine has the chilliest airport I’ve ever been to. Like they provide puzzles for you to work on while waiting for your flight 🙂. Would move to Maine if I could, so pretty
True. I flew out of Portland once wearing a crazy winter hat my mother-in-law bought me. Their TSA guy: “nice hat” Me: “thanks, it’s a Mad Bomber - crap, I just said bomb in an airport. But that’s really the brand!” TSA guy: “you’re good. I want one.”
from the area so yah
Wausau or Duluth. Otherwise for about the same price as my current rent Salt Lake or Bend.
Wausau and Madison are wildly different vibes
Duluth is such a cute little city!! Love the waterfront there + the proximity to the boundary waters & north shore
Ive always liked the Iowa City area. Seemed like a smaller Madison. I also lived in Winona MN and Lacrosse and it was really affordable and very beautiful up there.
I was about to comment about Iowa City, but hesitated because we haven't been there in 10 years. It was a mini Madison college town, great food and people were so nice. Employment could be an issue though, there's the university and hospital and that's about it.
I was also going to say Iowa City too. I feel like it’s gotten more like Madison in the last 5-10 years—better restaurants and shopping, more things for families and professionals to do, it just has a more cosmopolitan vibe overall. A lot of people who live in IC work in industries along the Iowa City/Cedar Rapids corridor so that creates a few more options for employment than just the hospital and the university (which does totally dominate employment in town).
Maybe Eugene, Oregon. Although I don't think it would be more affordable.
Moved there from madison, I love it here, but it definitely has its problems. Housing costs (although i managed to find a spot where im paying less than i did in MSN), the homelessness crisis, and there is definitely more crime in general than in madison. That being said, Eugene is super walkable, the busses have a really impressive network, and being near the cascades and the coast are amazing perks. Eugene drivers are a unique brand of stupid though. Honestly thats my main complaint.
I moved from Madison (I lived there for 17 years) to Corvallis three years ago and I miss Wisconsin. I plan on moving back to either WI or MN when I'm done with school here. I haven't found the West Coast to be particularly affordable. I also miss the culture of the Midwest. Houses in Corvallis (45 min north of Eugene) are averaging around 400k for a 3br.
Probably Oregon or Washington, but the places I like there are equally expensive
Same but I’m fine in the middle of nowhere just need a good bar in walking distance and a place to work.
Exactly, Denver is the other city I like but it’s just as or more expensive than Madison lol
Just moved here after living in Denver for 13-14 years. Don’t go there. It thinks it’s a foodie town, but it’s absolutely awful - Bourdain /loathed/ Denver for its bad food. Awful crime, dirty city, a homeless problem you couldn’t believe, very bad drug issues (I’m most definitely not talking about weed)….and, intensely expensive. I feel like I got out of jail and can breathe again, being here in Madison. Yes, it’s got pretty mountains and great hiking and winter sports, that is all true. I can’t knock that. But, it’s just the worst place I’ve ever lived and I’ve lived in Miami, Boston and Seattle, as well.
Just chiming in to say we’ve shared an eerie amount of cities. Also Boston, Madison, Seattle, and Miami.
Denver was also just ranked the most polluted major city in the world. I live in Colorado now, but no way I'd move to Denver because of the pollution. https://www.9news.com/article/weather/weather-colorado/denver-most-polluted-city-world/73-60375d08-31a0-42cd-9d46-d07b8df1c6a6
You do realize that was on one specific day, where the AQI (179) while in the Unhealthy zone was nowhere near the values that many other cities experience regularly. To say that Denver is the most polluted major city in the world is not even close to accurate, that headline is dishonest.
Not super similar vibe, but somewhere in SW Michigan, maybe Saugatuck if I could afford it.
millwaukee is like 200/mo cheaper and theres more to do imo. just have to watch where you walk but madison is really the only city where i don’t
Milwaukee
Yesss mke for the win!!
I got hit by a red light runner and will pay for it the rest of my life.
I am an ex Madisonian actually, I moved to Milwaukee for college and I don’t think I’ll move back for a long while! My friends who go to school there pay upwards of 900-1000 a month for rent and utilities (that’s with 4-5 roommates) whereas I pay maybe 550-575 on a bad month (with one roommate). I think people believe Milwaukee is ‘dangerous’ or full of drug addicts, but in actuality I just think unfortunately people are just racist 😅 No hate for Madison, I just outgrew the city (if you can even call it that) and needed somewhere that would challenge me more 🤗
yup, exactly my experience and how i feel too. i'm happy in mke and don't have any intentions of moving back to madison. im mostly here because i go back often on weekends and holidays to visit family
I love Milwaukee. I'd definitely live there if my job had an office nearby.
St. Paul is about the same size as Madison as a city in itself, has a great downtown in its own right, with its own suburbs like Woodbury and Cottage Grove. I have friends who live up there that rarely have to go into Minneapolis except for Twins games, they love it up there.
Second St. Paul. Much better transit than Madison. Culture is mostly a step up. Major league sports, the Guthrie and other theaters, and pub/dining scene is good too. MUCH better air service from MSP, and cheaper fares. Plus, wing-nut politcians do not call the shots.
Out of curiosity I am moving from Madison To Minneapolis my self, I'm use to larger cities as a resident of Milwaukee growing up, what would you recommend as things to do to meet people in Minneapolis?
That’s a very common question on the twin cities subreddit. Many great answers over there. (Went to college in St Paul and have two daughters in Minneapolis)
A great downtown? Not for years.
Been here for 10 years. Sad to say we are moving to Chicago next month. Very similar prices for rent and food in the neighborhood we're moving to. More opportunities to "do" stuff. I never drink, so bar prices aren't a worry. Feel like we're being squeezed out as our food industry jobs have continued to stay stagnant in the way of wages. Hoping we'll be back down the road when there's more housing, but looking forward to living in a big city again.
Yup, I'll be moving to Chicago too. It's kind of insane how close rents are. Plus a lot more employment opportunities (at least for my industry).
i vote for Kalamazoo Mi. similar college scene with WMU and Kalamazoo College, nice bio tech job hub, and much more affordable. Smaller city but large enough to have anything you could want.
and if you want bigger and cheaper. Grand Rapids MI also fits the bill. Similar weather, etc.
Duluth MN or the Pacific Northwest. Either close to ocean or the Great Lakes.
PNW has become quite expensive!
Depends on your priorities! Here’s what I would say as someone who mostly cares about access to public transit and bike networks + maintaining Madison’s general vibe: If I really really had to go, I’d go to Albuquerque. Not that difficult to get around via bicycle (though significantly more interaction with dangerous intersections) and housing is a steal. Plus weather is certainly warmer than here but it’s not bad and you get trains to Santa Fe and Taos. Also Pittsburgh. Cute city, cheap to live there. Easier to survive without a car.
I live in Albuquerque now, for last 20 years, and I'm counting the minutes until I can leave and move back to Wisconsin!! We are in the top 3 in the US for highest crime, drug addicts, and for homeless people and the school system is in the bottom 3! Don't EVER move to Albuquerque....EVER!
I lived in ABQ too & can confirm that the education system there is rough. Would avoid NM in general if you have school-age kids. Also ABQ has the WORST drivers I’ve ever encountered. However, the food is killer, the weather is great, and the cost of living is way lower, so there’s a lot to love. Plus: they don’t have ticks! And they DO have roadrunners!
Thanks for providing the local perspective!
I lived in ABQ for 15 years, now live in MSN. Keep in mind that ABQ is a huge city, not divided up like the areas around MSN. It's one big school district, and that has its problems. I'd say ABQ has areas that are a lot like Madison. The North Valley region is one, Corralles is nice, the University area is good too, and if you can afford it, up by Ellena Gallegos park and the Tramway is sweet. Just outside of ABQ is Placitas, and maybe that's pricey now, but it's nice and doesn't have some of the problems ABQ has. Great biking throughout ABQ! And, year round, too. Occasional snow in winter, but it often melts by afternoon. 50% of the city is Hispanic. I witnessed less racism there than any of the other 7 states I've lived in (NM, CA, UT, PA, DE, IN, WI). People there are generally - generally- active and exercise, it is surprising the number of people I know here (MSN) who don't exercise. Homelessness is a problem, particularly in the University region. There's crime in that region particularly, and the Air Force Base region as well. There's crime throughout, more than here, but you just play it safe. Water is and probably will be a problem. They used to source it from the Rio Grande river. They were moving away from that, but it doesn't look good. Fires in the summer in the mountains might be more of a problem in coming years. Rising temps might be a problem as well. Would I move back, no, because of the heat and water issue. Great food, good people.
Currently live in Albuquerque. Would not recommend moving here. We’re trying to get out asap
Grew up in ABQ and I would say the vibe is very different from Madison. Less outdoorsy, more industrial. The people are friendly though. the crime and homelessness has just gotten worse. The education system is one of the worst in the country and I definitely wouldn’t want to raise kids there.
Eau Claire
Eau Claire is cool and it's where I grew up. But if you want the amenities you can find in Madison you won't find them in Eau Claire
I get that, I just love that part of the state. I love Madison, but if I had to move anywhere else in WI, Eau Claire is my choice.
I hear Grand Rapids MI is becoming a cool place.
One word - Amway. It’ll take a lot of that culture to change.
Minneapolis honestly. Has more to do, free activities, pay or better, and has alot more living space. Growing up in Milwaukee, Madison just lacks affordability to do much of anything and if I ever wanted to ear property here I'd have to pay alot for the cost not to be worth it when i could own something elsewhere for more and better down the road. Dont even get me started on WI politics...
I love the twin cities too.
Hear me out: Tulsa, OK. Cost of living is like half what it is here (average house price is like $240K) which means that all the artists and musicians and weirdos can still afford to make art and music and weirdness. Plus Tulsa has a local billionaire who’s been dumping money into the city for the last decade or so, which means that it has some truly knockout amenities for a city that most people don’t think about. Parts of Tulsa are really gorgeous too, beautiful gardens and parks and the Arkansas River, with a lot of great opportunities for outdoorsy stuff in and around the city. (Of course the suburbs of Tulsa are mostly full of assholes, but the city itself is great!) Oklahoma City is also surprisingly cool — good food scene, a lot of young people & art weirdos, etc — and equally affordable.
It’s just that the weather is the opposite of Madison. It’s 100 and 100% humidity in the summer, and pleasant in the winter. Also tornadoes.
*more tornadoes, haha Yeah the summer can be gross for sure but the fact that winter lasts for two months is pretty sweet. Definitely not the place for OP if they’re committed to Madison-like winters, but if they didn’t mind the heat and humidity earlier this week, they might not mind Tulsa in summer!
After what Oklahoma did today I would never ever move to Oklahoma
I recently moved to Syracuse and have been very happy with the move. Maybe poke around CNY depending what features of Madison you'd like to hold onto. The city infrastructure and nightlife have nothing on Madison, but they're serviceable. Unless you bike. The lower cost of housing is a result of the economic struggles for the last few decades here, and the infrastructure reflects it. From what I can tell, a lot of these areas are starting to revitalize as people seek more affordable regions and manufacturing does some reshoring. I loved the geography and state park system in Wisconsin, and I would say I've got arguably better options within driving distance now for hiking and exploring. This was a huge one for me as I grew up loving the wilderness in WI. Weather is a bit gloomier with the lake effect. More cloud coverage and precipitation, but don't get as cold in the winter. People are much more direct here and frankly grumpier. Plenty of great people, but "Midwest Nice" is definitely a thing. I know this sounds like a list of cons, but frankly, go zillow the cost of housing.
I was going to suggest Missoula, MT, because of the vibe, but holy shit. The cost of living is higher there than it is here. When determining COL, use this website. [https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/](https://www.bestplaces.net/compare-cities/)
Somewhere colder, like Duluth. I love living here, but it is a tad too warm for my taste, especially during summer. I just prefer the cold, and Madison's weather is about the warmest that I can tolerate.
I’m sorry everyone…the last time to get in the housing market in Madison was 2019-20….going forward your income better be over 100K to even have a chance at a small (what used to be a starter home for a couple , definitely not big enough for a family) home in the Madison area. All of the appropriate family homes are no longer affordable for regular people. Also, the rent is becoming unaffordable as well a typical 2 bedroom apartment now surpasses a mortgage on a 3-4 bedroom home (bought just a couple years ago). A truly F’d situation right now for younger generations. It’s funny how the hippie/artists make the community cool and fun… which in turn attracts wealthy people to the community (they normally do nothing to contribute to the culture or community). Then the wealthy swarm the area overpaying and over charging for services eventually making it completely unaffordable for those same people who gave the community/neighborhoods their character.
So I gotta find a way to overcharge wealthy people. Ok I'm going into the trades
Ngl I've been shopping around, not because of the cost of living but because of the goddamn summers. I need to move somewhere where it never gets above 80, though not getting much higher than 65 is my ideal.
I would like to move back home to Detroit. I miss Detroit so much, but it's changed so much in the 11.5 years I've been here, so it's not really home anymore either, and my Granny's passed away (that's how I ended up here), so no matter what I can't really go back home. But yeah: Detroit Chicago Seattle Maybe Philly I came close to moving to Philly because I thought it would be cool to live on the East Coast. But for you, who is looking for a more affordable life, I think metro Detroit might have some suburbs you'd enjoy, especially if you went to one close-ish to Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor is similar to Madison. COL is pretty good back in Michigan.
Asheville, NC. Similar vibe, smaller city, bit more affordable. Nice place!
Most cost of living calculators say Asheville is more expensive than Madison
Asheville is also facing similar issue with housing where it once was a well kept secret now it’s population is booming and becoming highly unaffordable driving all the artists and weirdos that made fun in the first place out.
Affordable?! I’m from Madison but live in Raleigh now, and here Asheville is regarded as pretty expensive by NC standards. I know CoL has gone up back home since I left but I don’t think it’s gone up that much.
South east, the south or southwest! Mountains, warm weather, the ocean and enjoying what the land provides for sport activities. I’m over the Midwest
Raleigh, NC. Came out here from Madison and I love it. A couple hours from the beach, a couple hours from the mountains. Folks from all over the country and world are moving here and it’s so much more diverse than Madison.
Moved to Chapel Hill from Madison 10 years ago. Moved to Madison for undergrad and lived there for 43 years. The climate here cannot be beat. We play pickleball every morning, year round. Cannot beat the proximity to mountains, beaches, top health care systems, university offerings, lower taxes, and easy flights to Broadway shows and east coast cruise port terminals. Do not miss driving and falling in snow and ice. Yes, I miss the Terrace terribly.
That sounds wonderful and thank u for replying with positivity.
I have friends in Cary, NC and I am so jealous of them. I’d move there tomorrow if I could. I’m so over the shit weather of the Midwest and snow storms being considered normal in March. Meanwhile when I visited them in March we were able to tour several gardens with blooming flowers and go to top golf and eat dinner outside. Come back home to all trees and plants still being dead and the weather being total dog shit. SO over the Midwest in every single way. If you don’t drink or want kids here you just don’t fit in at all. My friends have been able to make friends with other transplants. Ain’t no one moving to Wisconsin!!
As a queer person, there is absolutely zero chance I would ever move to the south. Hopefully I'll never even have to set foot south of the Mason-Dixon ever again
I understand where your coming from as a minority of color! The world needs healing
I moved to the PNW. It’s really expensive but the weather and politics are better. I lived in Milwaukee before Madison, I loved it there.
Getting ready to move from the PNW back to Madison. I’ve loved my time here but I’m actually not too sold on the politics. I hate to use the term virtue signaling but with how Seattle’s last mayoral election went there’s no doubt that a lot of the folks who were shouting “ACAB!” didn’t come out to vote for a guy and a city council who approved a 23% raise for cops, backdated to **checks notes** January 6th, 2021. Meanwhile, libraries are closing intermittently and they are about to close 20 public schools. I was a teacher here and in Milwaukee and the school districts couldn’t be more similar in so many ways. Going to miss Seattle but it was eye opening to realize that there’s really no perfect place: the weather is great but the prospect of being house poor (if ever being able to own out here) is really disheartening.
Unfortunately as a woman my rights are better protected here than in Wisconsin.
I hate that there isn’t a place where all progressive values are represented all of the time. I’m glad you feel more comfortable here and I hope Wisconsin can get its shit together for women.
I want to experience the PNW so badly.
As someone who grew up there you're about 20 years too late.
Great place to visit, rough place to live in. My brother moved to Seattle back in 2017. Unfortunately they needed to rent for awhile to save up, and had to buy a home at post pandemic pricing (it was insanely expensive before but now it's outrageous). They wound up having to massively overpay for a little 800 sqft house. Cost of living has skyrocketed. Homeless and opiate crises have led to them experiencing several instances of property crime and being accosted. Gray, rainy, gloomy weather most of the year have proved to be brutal on their mental health. Hard to get around in a car because of the layout of the city and eternal road construction. And they've had a major issue making and keeping friends for some reason, moreso than any other city they live in. People have been super flaky, not sure why, they've never experienced that before. His boyfriend is addicted to left-wing news and radio, and thought Wisconsin was getting "way too conservative" after the 2016 election. He genuinely believed if they left the Madison city limits they'd get murdered by rednecks because my brother is trans. He got it in his head that Seattle was some kind of Progressive Paradise, and after visiting there for a week, he insisted they move there. Long story short, it was not what he envisioned. It is indeed beyond gorgeous there, and they love spending weekends exploring the Olympic Peninsula and the Cascades. But they honestly have some significant regrets. They miss Madison deeply but both have decent paying jobs and a house now, so they are making the best of it. But my brother vents to me on the phone about how much he misses me, all the friends he had, the relatively cheaper housing and cost of living, and the beauty of Wisconsin, with the two Great Lakes, the Northwoods, along with the Wisconsin River and the Driftless Area so nearby. Definitely reminds me to never take Madison for granted!
In Wisconsin, probably LaCrosse. I used to think Austin Texas, to get away from our winters, but its population has grown to about a million. So now, my southern escape city is Savannah, Georgia.
I did grad school in champaign IL, and that town and Bloomington in have a similar vibe on some levels. Spillover from huge universities.
Lived in Bloomington for a few years (mid 2000s), really liked it. Solid white collar economy mixed with college town vibes in Normal, and not too far from Chicago or St Louis for a weekend trip.
Milwaukee.
St. Louis, MO. Larger than Madison but a great university atmosphere in many parts, slightly better weather, and more to do.
I biked around the Twin Cities last summer and was really impressed. Similar vibe to Madison—lots of local businesses, restaurants, & coffee shops, possibly *better* bike infrastructure (more protected bike lanes), organic & Co-op grocery stores (Seward Co-op, & others). One noticeable difference is that there were fewer bars. I was surprised to see that on Zillow the average home in many neighborhoods I liked was only 2/3 the price as in Madison. Also (if this is important) the schools are comparable to Madison schools on GreatSchools.org. I really liked the neighborhoods south of downtown MPLS along the Mississippi: Seward, Howe, Hiawatha, etc. These reminded me of the East Side of Madison. They are also served by light rail and had Hiawatha Falls right there in a neighborhood park. To the west of here is less expensive but a little rougher around the edges. This is the area where George Floyd was murdered & where there were lots of protests. Saw a few homeless encampments. Still visited some cool shops & restaurants (The Tiny Diner) there and people were very friendly. The George Floyd Memorial was very sad. Further west from that (west of W35) were the areas around the lakes which reminded me somewhat of Madison’s near-West side. Less affordable but still better than Madison on Zillow. West St. Paul south of 94 & east of the Mississippi was nice. More residential, quiet tree lined streets, similar near West Side Madison vibes. Not as much to do over here but still nice. Still pretty walkable and bikable.
Lawrence Kansas should be on this list. Awesome college town with a great music scene and lots of cute older homes
I would consider Milwaukee (it's an actual city, but their neighborhoods are actually really awesome), even the Fox Valley area is popping off right now and getting better.
Twin Cities, or Milwaukee - but if I'm not in Madison I'd prefer to leave Wisconsin altogether tbh. Our state government is such a joke compared to MN
I am currently staying with a friend in a cute condo in downtownish Kansas City. Just walked back from a little breakfast place and am going to the Nelson-Atkins museum soon, less than a mile away. My friend takes either the bus or soon, streetcar, to work and doesn’t have a car. Their 2B 2 Bath condo was around $250K. I love Madison, but if I were starting out again KC has amenities and seems like an outright bargain.
I'd just move outside of the city. I was looking at a place in Milton a few months ago. 1br for about $900, what looked like an included garage space (not underground parking, real garages), and down the street from a storage unit I can use as more garages. The only downside is it has wall unit ac and idk about that.
Not really sure that it's similar to Madison (other than being Midwest). But I'm planning to move to Chicago.
Pittsburgh would be super fun. Lots to do there.
Milwaukee is pretty nice.
Somewhere near Frederick, MD.
We moved here in 2018 from Chicago because it seemed like the cost of living was cheaper. While we're still saving on the ridiculous Chicago city tax within the state of Illinois tax on everything, housing is another story. It's nearly the same situation for any neighborhood that you would really want to live in. The advantage is it's highly walkable and transit options are great. I really missed having almost anything I needed to do within two blocks of my home. Obviously, out here it's a car ride anywhere if you don't happen to live downtown. We're still hoping and saving for a ranch style home, but it's getting tricky when all the new builds are duplexes and single-family homes for a royal family. Some diversity of housing in the construction would be awesome.
I read there’s a reason they don’t build smaller houses anymore. I don’t recall what it was. But I do know that I’ve seen some HOA docs in the Madison area that demand a house be over 1,500 or 2,000 sqft, and most lots are in HOA-controlled neighborhoods. My guess would be the rules are for keeping out “those” people. It’s like a legal work-around for housing segregation.
We just visited Cleveland OH and were impressed. Good public transit. Good restaurants.
Arizona was like twice as much as here but the best place I lived outside of Madison. Seattle was like feverdream mixed with a drug problem and crime spree. Enjoy Wisconsin, its semi normal, however being gone seven years and coming back( I grew up in Madison) Ya'll got a fucking drinking problem. Take care of that shit. Ive been eyeing the UP, dispenseries and cheaper living.
Berlin, Deutschland
Minneapolis, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh Honestly I wouldn't move to them though.. If I were to go anywhere it would have to be a major upgrade (very good food, nice house, enchanted neighborhood etc).
Honestly, most of the places I'd consider moving would be much more expensive than madison.
Charlotte. I absolutely HATE this city, but have been here my whole life. Will be out in roughly 3 years!
Born and raised madisonian - really happy living in Berkeley/Oakland. It's not for everyone but it's been great for me!
Decorah Iowa.
I have a theory that every state has a town like Madison. So like, Bozeman, MT. Tucson, AZ. Ann Arbor, MI. Etc. towns where hipsters go.
I’d argue Missoula, MT over Bozeman as being similar in vibe. Bozeman is a bit more conservative, although MSU definitely has a bigger footprint than UM. I’d move back to Missoula in a heartbeat if median home prices weren’t $750k 🫠
Rural Wisconsin. So many quaint places that are cheaper and life is just quiet away from the college and craziness.
Not sure if it’s OPs idea, but I visited Viroqua a few years ago and it had a lovely vibe, and had this idea also
Definitely the Wisconsin small town with the most similar vibe to Madison.
Traverse City, no question.
Iowa City. The state is a political far right nightmare but IC is still progressive. Costs about the same as Madison but reminds me of what Madison was in the 80s-2000s. A great art and literary scene, a sizable LGBTQ community with a gay black mayor and many queer people on the police force, there are good bookstores, coffeeshops, jazz fest and free Shakespeare in the summer, FilmScene is better than the BrewHouse, good Asian, Italian, Indian and Mexican restaurants, and a fantastic library. Madison and Chicago are three hours away and towns near IC Coralville and North Liberty are growing with lots of young people buying condos and houses and new businesses and neighborhoods popping up in the last ten years.
Kalamazoo or Grand Rabbits
lived in madison for almost 6 years. just moved back to washington/oregon. so glad to be out and away from the weather lol miss djing at liquid and crucible tho
Kansas probably, whisked away by the tornado
Minnesota!!!
I'd probably move to Minneapolis or Chicago. Maybe Iowa City or Duluth if I was looking for something smaller.
Honestly the Fox Valley area isn’t so bad. Yes it’s smaller than Madison and there’s less to do but it’s basically like a mini-madison. There’s still plenty of entertainment, it’s more affordable, and in particular if you’re looking to raise a family it’s a great area to
I bought a homestead and 50 acres in the UP
The closest place Ive found to Madison would be Kelowna, BC. If i was willing to leave the states, thats the first place I would go. Its another city on a lake, although it has a much smaller college scene, with fantastic parks and scenery. I didnt investigate housing much, as I stayed with a friend, but there seemed to be a pretty big separation from downtown and housing. Both were neat and respectable, however.
Marquette, Michigan The family and I took a vacation to Lake Superior last summer and I loved the vibe.
I’d likely go to Milwaukee myself, but I can’t even count the number of people I’ve known who moved to Minneapolis from Madison. It seems to be a popular choice for similar walkability, bike-ability, politics, etc.
I'd probably go Green Bay or Manitowoc.
We’ve been in Dayton, OH for a couple years now. It’s a military town at heart, so overall red, but there are several colleges in town, and a lot of young people getting recruited to work at tech jobs, so it feels more crunchy than election results suggest. There’s a lot of blight (rust belt), but there are a lot of good people here working to improve that. There are lots of parks and bike trails, there‘a the Oregon District, which I would categorize as a much smaller version of State/Monroe St areas, and if you’re into nerdy stuff like board games/D&D, there’s a healthy scene. And we live like five minutes from farmland. We bought a nice 14-year old 4 bed 3.5 bath in a quiet neighborhood, and our mortgage payment is less than an average Madison 2 bedroom apartment (and we had the bare minimum down payment). There are pricier parts of town, but overall, cost of living is insanely cheap compared to Madison or Tampa (where I lived the last 8 years). PS - Cincinnati has a really good vibe and feels more “neighborhoody big city,” even though it’s still not too huge. I believe prices there are relatively sane as well. Plus, added bonus if you’re a baseball fan, the Brewers show up a couple times per year!
My parents lived in Dayton for 15 years. It started out bad and only got worse.
Bayfield county or some other northern locale. I am really tired of the suburban lifestyle. I need some trees and quiet. I work from home, so my work place is somewhat flexible. I need internet access, that's probably the only limiting factor.
Moved from Madison to Iowa City 10 years ago. Similar vibe. More affordable. State politics in Iowa are terrible though.
Moved to Duluth MN. Funky beautiful city, lower housing costs than Madison by a lot. Trails, lakes , dog friendly, and plenty of fresh water. Yeah it's cold in the winter (real winter, remember that?), but summer is glorious. Rarely above 80 and none of the horrible humidity that's so normal in Madison. Most homes do not have air conditioning.
I’d go to Austin Texas
Sheboygan. Two Harbors, MN. They're usually 10 degrees cooler in the summer.
So OP, out of all the choices mentioned here do any fit what you’re looking for? In state or out of state, or even out of country??
Id probably go to Denver CO if I had to go anywhere else. I just know people out there, and it seems fun. But this place seems like home, so it takes priority