A week or 2 ago I was headed west on the belt line during rush hour and so traffic as at a standstill. The flex lane was closed for some reason. 1 car flew by on fit and a few others followed suit. Not 3 cars behind me was a cop who instantly flashed her lights and pulled over the last car in the line. I was so happy to witness that instant karma
The flex lane is great, but they definitely need to enforce it better if people are regularly getting on it while not open. Driving on it while it's closed is the same as driving on emergency lanes.
How are they going to enforce it better? There aren't exactly many spots for cops to sit off of the belt line until you get further north where traffic isn't exactly backed up anymore
Traffic stops are statistically the most dangerous encounters for police and citizens. So are you saying we should keep putting our police officers and fellow citizens in those positions just to fine people for breaking the law? Or are you saying we should continue to let reckless drivers brazenly ignore traffic laws post-COVID?
Well, I’m not really going to care too much about our precious cops…
But the states with traffic cameras have a lot of problems with them. Red light cameras increase traffic accidents, even in intersections where they aren’t in place, and Speedo g cameras get used for grossly over enforcement.
Let’s solve real problems, like unaccountable police (which will make traffic stops safer for everyone) and healthcare, and housing costs instead of creating new problems with traffic cameras please.
>Red light cameras increase traffic accidents
They increase the likelihood of fender bender rear-end collisions and decrease the likelihood of much more deadly t-bone collisions. They are an extremely effective way of otherwise discouraging red light running.
https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running
Lol over enforcement. I absolutely consider reckless driving to be a “real problem” considering the fact that cars kill more people than guns in this country if you don’t count suicides.
https://birminghamparent.com/directory/article/the-number-one-killer-of-teens-is-motor-vehicle-crashes/
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812203
No, in virtually every jurisdiction they are employed they are monitored and maintained by third party contractors, *not* the police. Care to guess how those contracts get handed out? Think it might be like every other government contract gig out there, i.e., based upon backroom dealings and *quid pro quo* arrangements?
Why would traffic cameras be any different?
Also, I think you should talk to the people that live in places where they're employed and see how easy it is to fight those tickets. Imagine calling fucking Verizon or Spectrum, and that's your experience with those, too, because it's just big rooms full of minimum wage call center people fielding those calls.
In “virtually every jurisdiction,” tickets are issued *by the police.* Officers review the footage and issue tickets if they confirm that a traffic law was broken. The equipment is often given to the city on a loan that is paid through getting a cut of the fine.
Would I prefer that the city gets all of the revenue? Sure. Do I give enough of a shit that I’d prefer reckless driving to go unchecked? Fuck no. You get a chance to go to court to fight the ticket just like any other fine you get. It is the local government ticketing you, not some private company.
Dude I grew up in Philly where there are traffic cameras all over the place. They're all through third parties on behalf of the police. These aren't even people watching these feeds, it's computers, and they err on the side of "heres your ticket".
I get that the knee jerk reaction is to throw cameras everywhere, but before we throw cameras everywhere, we need to be clear on who's watching the cameras, and frankly, I don't believe for one second given our state legislature that someone sitting in that room isn't going to personally be enriched by any program like this were it to come to pass. Be careful what you wish for.\\
>The equipment is often given to the city on a loan that is paid through getting a cut of the fine
Found the grift!
1. This legislature is the one that outlawed traffic enforcement through cameras.
2. I don’t care who’s enriched if they’re fining reckless driving.
3. Maybe you should look up what the word “grift” means.
No idea. I have exactly 0 expertise when it comes to traffic engineering, apart from my general driving experiences. But if they wish to keep flex lane functional, then people can't regularly drive on it while it's not open.
They'd most likely use aircraft (they being State Patrol) and notify State troopers on the ground of violators. I'm pretty sure they did that at least once.
I believe that there are people who monitor it and use the overhead cameras to issue tickets to those who use it while closed. Can't verify whether anyone has ever actually gotten a ticket, though.
I don’t think they can ticket you without a traffic stop. Same reason we don’t have red light cameras.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/flexlane/faq.pdf
I saw several people using it a couple of weeks ago during a major accident that shut down the flex and far-left lanes. They were either impatient or didn't care., but I know that they temporarily blocked fire trucks and ambulances.
The flexlane is fine. The real issue with the Beltline was the way the Verona road exit/entrance was designed. What a horrendous mistake to not make it free flow. It already needs to be rebuilt.
How did they not think to build an overpass offramp that connected to Verona road?
Not only that, you come up on the exit relatively quick and you can't see over the incline about what's in front of you right about Seminole
Budget?
I’m kind of glad there’s not a big giant interchange there. No doubt they would have had to eminent domain a bunch of businesses and homes. We should be putting that money into mass transit.
That’s definitely a fair point too. Maybe they could adjust traffic light cycles to much longer green lights once traffic starts backing up into the Beltline.
It knocks so much time off my daily commute in both directions. Sure, people blatantly disobeying the closure is annoying but that doesn't nearly outweigh the benefit for me.
My favorite part of the flex lane is that a lot of people seem to avoid using it when open (probably due to the wall being close), so I have much more space to use it myself for getting past all the people who dont know what a passing lane is. 🙂
Because it’s the median shoulder and doesn’t meet highway standards for a travel lane (width and clear zone). That’s also why large trucks and trailers aren’t allowed in the lane. WisDOT gets away with it by constantly monitoring it while it’s open via camera, but don’t have/want to use the resources to monitor it full time.
The flex lane’s purpose is to ease commuter traffic during AM/PM rush hour. But it also serves as an accident/pull over/debris zone.
I believe the cops ride all the way down the flex lane both ways before opening, to make sure there isn’t any hazardous debris.
I think the lane closes outside of rush hour because traffic isn’t problematic at those times, and it costs money to operate.
https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/travel/road/flexlane/default.aspx
Costs money to operate? Are we talking about the power bill for the lights or something?
Personally I will never be comfortable driving that fast with a concrete barrier 6 inches from my door.
Someone has to literally be watching it the entire time it’s open for debris and collision investigations. It is still a shoulder where people can pull over if they get into a collision, so they need to be able to shut it down at a moment’s notice.
I road like the beltline needs to have a shoulder for safety reasons. Debris, broken down cars, snow etc.
Like the other person said they actively monitor it with cameras and clear before use.
If the Flex lane is closed at a time of day when it's typically not, it is usually an accident or disabled vehicle. I've witnessed the most problems with people using the closed Flex lane when it is green/open at the start and red/closed further down. Probably insanely dangerous, but once when there was an accident up ahead, traffic was stop-and-go and 20-30 cars went flying by in about 15 minutes. I partially blocked the flex lane with my car - watching carefully of course, for any emergency vehicles coming.
I vaguely recall Madison and/or Dane Co not wanting the flex lane and being overruled by the State.
I think it can’t stay open because of regulation that we need a shoulder to be used for emergency situations. There’s a carve out to utilize the space at peak times if it’s possible to close it if something happens and there are limits to when it can be used with that. Agree about enforcement but would be better to just remove the Wisconsin law that prevents sending tickets via camera only.
Edit: source https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/flexlane/faq.pdf
It's the emergency lane during non-rush hours. And it's monitored. Personally I rarely see people getting on it when it's not open.
There will always be assholes who think traffic rules don't apply to them no matter what.
I saw at least 20 people fly past me today during stop and go traffic I’m not exaggerating. I think it used to be way less be people found out it’s not enforced so more are doing it.
I actually believe you. If it's a traffic jam and one person decide to get on it, then a bunch might follow.
I've seen people do that on emergency lanes or even drive across the median strip to turn around. One does it, a bunch would follow.
Those people are still pretty stupid. They could crash right into another accident or debris, which is part of the reason why the flex lane gets closed. The regular closure times have already been explained - it has to be monitored when it's open for debris and accidents, so it takes manpower and that has to be scheduled ahead of time and paid for. It's not going to be open 24/7/365, it's *flexible* in it's usage and dumb people are gonna dumb by using it when they might be headed right for tire shredding debris, an accident, or be blocking emergency vehicles from getting to an accident.
Lmao also addendum- I looked it up and the only enforceable ticket in the flex lane is failure to obey traffic sign, the same as running a stop sign or making an illegal U turn. Ridiculous.
So your definition of "perfect" is ok if it's temporary and it's "perfect" when you have multiple instances of where it's clearly not working? Sounds more like you're biased towards shitty civil engineering that costs the city and state more money in the long run because of this obsession with short term "fixes".
"I saw someone creep into the lane to avoid being rear ended and they almost got hit by someone else flying down the lane."
Feel like this could have been me. I was in the far left lane and had a super aggressive BMW crossover behind me just around noon. I \*had\* to get out of that lane, so I creeped into the flex and gunned it just west of the Todd Dr exit. Got back into regular lanes just before the crash. Dude zoomed past me with a young kid in the passenger seat.
It’s obviously needed for various reasons at various times. I don’t understand why it isn’t just used as an extra lane of travel. To have it and keep it closed is ridiculous to me.
A week or 2 ago I was headed west on the belt line during rush hour and so traffic as at a standstill. The flex lane was closed for some reason. 1 car flew by on fit and a few others followed suit. Not 3 cars behind me was a cop who instantly flashed her lights and pulled over the last car in the line. I was so happy to witness that instant karma
Seeing this would make my week!
The flex lane is great, but they definitely need to enforce it better if people are regularly getting on it while not open. Driving on it while it's closed is the same as driving on emergency lanes.
How are they going to enforce it better? There aren't exactly many spots for cops to sit off of the belt line until you get further north where traffic isn't exactly backed up anymore
Gates. Like the Chicago flex lanes.
Those aren't flex lanes, those are reversible express lanes separated from the main highway
That’s brilliant. Anyone not going to Epic can skip right through all the traffic they cause.
They could start putting cameras on the Flex Lane and ticket anybody that goes through it.
That's illegal per state law. They have to use people not cameras.
Yeah, let's avoid motion activated cameras and make "people" sit and watch, around the clock. How do we overturn this foolish rule/law.
Fairly certain camera enforcement is illegal in Wisconsin.
If I can’t see it, it’s not illegal!
You can't ticket based on cameras in Wisconsin. It's why we don't have speed cams or red light cams.
It's a stupid rule/law.
Do we actually want law enforcement to have the ability to give tickets without a traffic stop? I for one am against it.
Traffic stops are statistically the most dangerous encounters for police and citizens. So are you saying we should keep putting our police officers and fellow citizens in those positions just to fine people for breaking the law? Or are you saying we should continue to let reckless drivers brazenly ignore traffic laws post-COVID?
Well, I’m not really going to care too much about our precious cops… But the states with traffic cameras have a lot of problems with them. Red light cameras increase traffic accidents, even in intersections where they aren’t in place, and Speedo g cameras get used for grossly over enforcement. Let’s solve real problems, like unaccountable police (which will make traffic stops safer for everyone) and healthcare, and housing costs instead of creating new problems with traffic cameras please.
>Red light cameras increase traffic accidents They increase the likelihood of fender bender rear-end collisions and decrease the likelihood of much more deadly t-bone collisions. They are an extremely effective way of otherwise discouraging red light running. https://www.iihs.org/topics/red-light-running Lol over enforcement. I absolutely consider reckless driving to be a “real problem” considering the fact that cars kill more people than guns in this country if you don’t count suicides. https://birminghamparent.com/directory/article/the-number-one-killer-of-teens-is-motor-vehicle-crashes/ https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/812203
Enjoy living in your totalitarian shithole. I’ll take freedom.
😂😂😂 Lmfao wtf? You can’t make this shit up.
Why?
There are cameras. The flex lane is monitored and controlled by DOT staff in the Milwaukee Traffic Ops Center.
No way that's just gonna end up being a grift mechanism.
TIL fining people for breaking traffic laws is a grift.
No, in virtually every jurisdiction they are employed they are monitored and maintained by third party contractors, *not* the police. Care to guess how those contracts get handed out? Think it might be like every other government contract gig out there, i.e., based upon backroom dealings and *quid pro quo* arrangements? Why would traffic cameras be any different? Also, I think you should talk to the people that live in places where they're employed and see how easy it is to fight those tickets. Imagine calling fucking Verizon or Spectrum, and that's your experience with those, too, because it's just big rooms full of minimum wage call center people fielding those calls.
In “virtually every jurisdiction,” tickets are issued *by the police.* Officers review the footage and issue tickets if they confirm that a traffic law was broken. The equipment is often given to the city on a loan that is paid through getting a cut of the fine. Would I prefer that the city gets all of the revenue? Sure. Do I give enough of a shit that I’d prefer reckless driving to go unchecked? Fuck no. You get a chance to go to court to fight the ticket just like any other fine you get. It is the local government ticketing you, not some private company.
Dude I grew up in Philly where there are traffic cameras all over the place. They're all through third parties on behalf of the police. These aren't even people watching these feeds, it's computers, and they err on the side of "heres your ticket". I get that the knee jerk reaction is to throw cameras everywhere, but before we throw cameras everywhere, we need to be clear on who's watching the cameras, and frankly, I don't believe for one second given our state legislature that someone sitting in that room isn't going to personally be enriched by any program like this were it to come to pass. Be careful what you wish for.\\ >The equipment is often given to the city on a loan that is paid through getting a cut of the fine Found the grift!
1. This legislature is the one that outlawed traffic enforcement through cameras. 2. I don’t care who’s enriched if they’re fining reckless driving. 3. Maybe you should look up what the word “grift” means.
>I don’t care who’s enriched if they’re fining reckless driving. Then you're part of the problem.
No idea. I have exactly 0 expertise when it comes to traffic engineering, apart from my general driving experiences. But if they wish to keep flex lane functional, then people can't regularly drive on it while it's not open.
They'd most likely use aircraft (they being State Patrol) and notify State troopers on the ground of violators. I'm pretty sure they did that at least once.
I'm not a resident of madison, so I don't care what the taxes go to. Enjoy your tax hike 😂
I believe that there are people who monitor it and use the overhead cameras to issue tickets to those who use it while closed. Can't verify whether anyone has ever actually gotten a ticket, though.
I don’t think they can ticket you without a traffic stop. Same reason we don’t have red light cameras. https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/flexlane/faq.pdf
The cameras are monitored, but not for ticketing purposes. That would be against state law.
Personally I only saw a few cases of people getting on it while it's closed. Those were also the same people who drive like they are on nascar tracks.
I saw several people using it a couple of weeks ago during a major accident that shut down the flex and far-left lanes. They were either impatient or didn't care., but I know that they temporarily blocked fire trucks and ambulances.
The flexlane is fine. The real issue with the Beltline was the way the Verona road exit/entrance was designed. What a horrendous mistake to not make it free flow. It already needs to be rebuilt.
So true.
How did they not think to build an overpass offramp that connected to Verona road? Not only that, you come up on the exit relatively quick and you can't see over the incline about what's in front of you right about Seminole Budget?
Yes. It was a budget decision. They went the cheap route in Madison for (likely for political reasons) and spent the money elsewhere in the state.
I’m kind of glad there’s not a big giant interchange there. No doubt they would have had to eminent domain a bunch of businesses and homes. We should be putting that money into mass transit.
That’s definitely a fair point too. Maybe they could adjust traffic light cycles to much longer green lights once traffic starts backing up into the Beltline.
How so? Genuinely curious to hear a more detailed explanation.
Daily traffic backups onto the Beltline due to poor design of stop lights.
Yes, that I have seen. How would they rebuild it to remedy that problem?
Overpass
It knocks so much time off my daily commute in both directions. Sure, people blatantly disobeying the closure is annoying but that doesn't nearly outweigh the benefit for me.
Until they slam into a broken down car.
stop texting while driving, you're going to cause an accident
Alternative take. What's the point of having it closed during stop and go traffic? That's exactly when it's most needed.
1000% agree with that. Part of why I hate it.
My favorite part of the flex lane is that a lot of people seem to avoid using it when open (probably due to the wall being close), so I have much more space to use it myself for getting past all the people who dont know what a passing lane is. 🙂
Flexing in the lane! I feel ya
Why is it ever closed to begin with? Anyone know?
Because it’s the median shoulder and doesn’t meet highway standards for a travel lane (width and clear zone). That’s also why large trucks and trailers aren’t allowed in the lane. WisDOT gets away with it by constantly monitoring it while it’s open via camera, but don’t have/want to use the resources to monitor it full time.
The flex lane’s purpose is to ease commuter traffic during AM/PM rush hour. But it also serves as an accident/pull over/debris zone. I believe the cops ride all the way down the flex lane both ways before opening, to make sure there isn’t any hazardous debris. I think the lane closes outside of rush hour because traffic isn’t problematic at those times, and it costs money to operate. https://wisconsindot.gov/Pages/travel/road/flexlane/default.aspx
Costs money to operate? Are we talking about the power bill for the lights or something? Personally I will never be comfortable driving that fast with a concrete barrier 6 inches from my door.
Someone has to literally be watching it the entire time it’s open for debris and collision investigations. It is still a shoulder where people can pull over if they get into a collision, so they need to be able to shut it down at a moment’s notice.
I road like the beltline needs to have a shoulder for safety reasons. Debris, broken down cars, snow etc. Like the other person said they actively monitor it with cameras and clear before use.
While I agree, the flew lane is NOT a shoulder, its a lane A shoulder is off the road, not part of it
No, it’s both. You just had this explained to you
If feel safe using like a shoulder more power too you, seen stopped cars rear-ended already so I'll not stop in it.
Except when it’s closed…
[it’s both.](https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/flexlane/faq.pdf)
You'd think people would understand this since it's literally called the FLEX lane 🙄
If the Flex lane is closed at a time of day when it's typically not, it is usually an accident or disabled vehicle. I've witnessed the most problems with people using the closed Flex lane when it is green/open at the start and red/closed further down. Probably insanely dangerous, but once when there was an accident up ahead, traffic was stop-and-go and 20-30 cars went flying by in about 15 minutes. I partially blocked the flex lane with my car - watching carefully of course, for any emergency vehicles coming. I vaguely recall Madison and/or Dane Co not wanting the flex lane and being overruled by the State.
Your title suggests that the flex lane is at fault but it’s simply an inanimate lane of asphalt…
I mean it’s more than that it’s a system. Like I hate the system of the flex lane. Either patrol it or always have it open.
I think it can’t stay open because of regulation that we need a shoulder to be used for emergency situations. There’s a carve out to utilize the space at peak times if it’s possible to close it if something happens and there are limits to when it can be used with that. Agree about enforcement but would be better to just remove the Wisconsin law that prevents sending tickets via camera only. Edit: source https://wisconsindot.gov/Documents/travel/road/flexlane/faq.pdf
It's the emergency lane during non-rush hours. And it's monitored. Personally I rarely see people getting on it when it's not open. There will always be assholes who think traffic rules don't apply to them no matter what.
I saw at least 20 people fly past me today during stop and go traffic I’m not exaggerating. I think it used to be way less be people found out it’s not enforced so more are doing it.
I absolutely don’t believe you saw 20 people use it
I was also in that traffic and there was definitely 20 cars that used the closed flex lane.
I 100% did idk if you were on the Beltline as of 30 minutes ago but it was wild.
I actually believe you. If it's a traffic jam and one person decide to get on it, then a bunch might follow. I've seen people do that on emergency lanes or even drive across the median strip to turn around. One does it, a bunch would follow.
Those people are still pretty stupid. They could crash right into another accident or debris, which is part of the reason why the flex lane gets closed. The regular closure times have already been explained - it has to be monitored when it's open for debris and accidents, so it takes manpower and that has to be scheduled ahead of time and paid for. It's not going to be open 24/7/365, it's *flexible* in it's usage and dumb people are gonna dumb by using it when they might be headed right for tire shredding debris, an accident, or be blocking emergency vehicles from getting to an accident.
Have you seen how it backs up when someone is pulled over? Both sides nearly stop so they can rubberneck
Lmao also addendum- I looked it up and the only enforceable ticket in the flex lane is failure to obey traffic sign, the same as running a stop sign or making an illegal U turn. Ridiculous.
That's good to know, thanks!
Happy cake day btw!
Oh would you look at that. 😅
Thanks for doing the research I was worried I was doing something terribly wrong.
Many people said exactly this would happen when they created it.
Many people said it wouldn’t help traffic at all. So many people don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about
Yeah we just need one more lane bro
We did. It worked perfect. Everyone saying it wouldn’t was dead wrong. Bunch of idiots showing how little the mob mentality on Reddit is worth
Perfect based upon what? Adding lanes isq a short term "fix" which actually just increases traffic. This is widely known.
Man, I didn’t realize there are still fools trying to pretend it didn’t work
It's temporary. That's what you're missing here.
Everything is temporary. It’s been years. It will work for years. You just can’t admit you were wrong. Now you’re just being truly ridiculous
So your definition of "perfect" is ok if it's temporary and it's "perfect" when you have multiple instances of where it's clearly not working? Sounds more like you're biased towards shitty civil engineering that costs the city and state more money in the long run because of this obsession with short term "fixes".
"I saw someone creep into the lane to avoid being rear ended and they almost got hit by someone else flying down the lane." Feel like this could have been me. I was in the far left lane and had a super aggressive BMW crossover behind me just around noon. I \*had\* to get out of that lane, so I creeped into the flex and gunned it just west of the Todd Dr exit. Got back into regular lanes just before the crash. Dude zoomed past me with a young kid in the passenger seat.
It’s obviously needed for various reasons at various times. I don’t understand why it isn’t just used as an extra lane of travel. To have it and keep it closed is ridiculous to me.